How can we "encourage" folks to charge respectfully.
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 28. 07. 2024
- We have a free council AC charger near us and some folks are regularly leaving their cars charing past the 4 hour limit. Like leaving their cars 8-12 hours overnight.
How can we try and encourage people to not do this sort of behaviour? Please lets keep things polite and civil. đđ» - Auta a dopravnĂ prostĆedky
They should do free the first 4hrs then charge for every minute after
It should also start charging idle fees when the car has finished charging, e.g if after 2hrs the car stops the charging session, they have grace period to come and move or the idle fee starts
That would solve it. Though youâd think that if they could do that they would have done it already?
Unfortunately probably a case of I'm not affected so why should I care
Once more businesses put in chargers for customers it will relieve alot of the issues, would also help if they'd put one's in for staff, maybe something council should subsidise as then they aren't paying all the costs
free chargers need to stop easy solution
A bit of throwing out the baby with the bath water there, donât you think?
If a council paid for charger then I agree. However some businesses offer free charges to entice people into their premises (I've purchased something from the business as a way to say thank you).
@@notacarguy_au No in every country free has equalled awful.
bring a big fat permanent marker and write a nice message on their windshield to ask them politely to move their car
I was thinking most of printing some notes and having them laminated so they donât suffer if itâs raining. But that seems like way too much work. đ
@@notacarguy_au hehe that seems almost too nice :)
@@notacarguy_aujust stick the sign on their windscreen with superglue đ
Great video. I work at a university that has 10 spaces for free ChargeFox charging. Iâve never seen more than three cars there at once, so I park there all day. However, itâs a matter of time before there is more demand, so Iâll do the right thing and stick to the rules once it gets to that point. đ
Thanks. Thatâs interesting that the chargers at your uni arenât utilised that much. Considering how much use most chargers out there get.
Is it just that not that many folks there have EVs? Or do you see a few EVs in the parking lot that arenât using the chargers?
I should make clear that I drive an EV - Iâm not just some mean-spirited person parking in an EV space! đ
Itâs in a regional area and I think the lack of usage is down to three factors: a lack of staff with EVs, EVs still being too expensive for the average student and the chargers being slow enough and the campus remote enough that the average person wouldnât park their car and walk to another workplace. Nor would they have time to wait around. It takes me four hours to charge, usually. I use it a couple of times a week while working. đ
All good points. đđ»đ so are the chargers available to the general public? I assumed from your first comment that it was one of those that was only open to staff and students.
@@notacarguy_auYes, they are available to the general public. In theory, they also need a uni parking permit. It may also be that people just donât know about the charge stations- but then itâs viewable on the app, isnât it. I shall enjoy not brawling for a spot for as long as it lasts. đ
Yep - time lapse. It's essentially as simple as a parking ticket. We already have cameras to charge for speeding. So do the same with this but based on time stopped.
Yes, technically could be done, though I am not sure they would see the value in it. I think itâs pretty low priory for the council and fair enough. I am sure they have more important things to worry about as for now it wouldnât be effecting a huge amount of people.
I can tolerate charging longer than the limit. But if it's full, move the car. You're right. This why we can't have nice things.
Unfortunately yes.
An even easier solution is to install credit card reader. Before starting charging everyone has to register their card. When four hours have gone their cards will be charged for money. If the costs are reasonable high people will definitely move their cars. We have this solution at supermarkets here in Sweden. 1-2 hours free parking and after that the costs will be on your card. Works like a charm. As you point out hoping for people to care about others is the meaning of utopia.
That sounds easy. But it would mean either installing the payment system into the existing chargers or installing new chargers completely. Which I donât see either of those happening.
I think it is a good idea going forward with new chargers though.
@@notacarguy_au installing cameras arenât exactly unproblematic either. And who will watch all photos to determine whoâs going to pay for over staying? Iâm not sure but I think card readers will turn out cheaper in the long run. But Iâm guessing now
Thatâs a fair point. I donât think we have any chargers in Australia yet that accept credit card payments on the charger. Though weâve been told for some time that itâs coming.
Were as having cameras that give out fines is a technology thatâs widely used here.
So thatâs my logic as to why the cameras at least for now are more likely to happen.
Of course the first thing is for the council to have enough interest in wanting to solve the problem at all. Which unfortunately at the moment it doesnât seem to be too interested in doing.
@@notacarguy_au In European Union itâs mandatory with card readers on new fast chargers from this year. And all the ready existing fast chargers have to have them installed latest 2027. I think thatâs a great solution so we customers donât need 200 apps and rfid cards to charge our evâs. Not the biggest problem for me since Iâm driving Tesla but for ev market generally itâs a good step to make charging easier.
Thatâs good. But is that all chargers or only faster DC chargers? The chargers Iâm referencing in this video are only 11kW AC chargers. So would I be correct in that they wouldnât fall under that new rule coming in?
Simple solution.
4 hour parking only signs.
Get parking inspectors to chalk tyres, come back 4 hrs later.
If they are still there fine them.
DONE
Unfortunately there are two nice big signs showing that itâs a 4 hour limit for charging on the spots. So thatâs not helping. I guess enforcement would help, but from what Iâve been told the council doesnât seem that interested. Which seems odd. And to be fair I havenât contacted the council myself, Iâve only been told from folks that Iâve chatted to at the location that the council has been told and are not doing anything about it.
Perhaps one of the challenges is that the parking inspector would have to chalk to tyres at about 8pm or 10pm, as most folks donât leave their cars past the 4 hours during the day and itâs mostly overnight that is the issue.
Idle fees after 4hrs quadruple the fee. Was nice to meet you in Albury
Nice to meet you too. Hope the rest of your trip was fun and uneventful. âșïž
Council Revenue Officers are missing out on easy money
Thatâs what Iâm thinking. đ€Ł
Exactly the same issue with the Free university chargers near us, they are free to use for uni staff and students, but local residents are more than happy to plug in, and leave the car there overnight on a fast charger! also, it attracts a LOT of Uber drivers who will queue up for ages when every car charges to 100%. so sadly students and staff rarely get to use them.
Same thing used to happen at Deakin Uni in Burwood Melb until they started charger 35c/kWh and $1.60 per minute overtime charge. Eventually, they just changed it to Staff and students only.
It's a shame cause if only the rules were enforced, I'm saying it would solve all the issues, but it would help. đ€·đ»
I'll start by saying you are very fair and polite in your descriptions of these people Lee :)
It's a nuanced thing. DC fast chargers (in suburbs and busy highway routes) should obviously never be free, most operators have settled at 50-80c/kWh, which reflects the cost of building and maintaining such a site. This cost includes the cost of connecting up and using a management/billing system for activation and payment. You see cars rotating through at a quick pace. Just get a 20, 30 maybe 40 minute top up (depending on the car) then keep moving. They should all have idle fees, ideally.
AC chargers are interesting because in many cases, it can make sense for them to be free (e.g. accommodation), or "free but not really" (e.g. in a paid car park). They don't cost that much to install (a few thousand dollars, not much for a business or council), the cost of power is hardly anything, and the owner gets money another way.
If you want a paid AC charging setup though, you then need to add the cost of the management/billing system, mentioned earlier - which can then increase the per kWh cost. You end up with AC chargers that cost 40-50c/kWh to use. The operator then waits for the cash to roll in, when in practice people stop using it - they would rather spend 30 minutes at a DC charger than 4 hours at an AC charger that costs the same. So the AC charger gets cobwebs.
These "free AC chargers" (but that I mean, those not affiliated with another revenue source - ones that stand on their own) should ideally be priced a fraction above what the typical home electricity rate is - and then have a big idle fee (perhaps the idle fee should not apply between 10pm-6am). This will keep the freeloaders away, but will keep it available for those who need to use it. One thing to note, many cars let you select the AC charge rate, so people can intentionally slow down their charging speed in order to not finish sooner, and therefore not get an idle fee. That's another challenge I guess...
Some good points, though these ones already are on Chargefox so making them paid I think should be as âeasyâ as ticking some boxes on chargefoxâs end. Of course for now the council want to offer these as free to encourage EV update, I assume. So theyâve rather not charge for it. I think once EV uptake really takes off you wonât see many free AC chargers like these.
Alternatively if power gets cheaper (I know nothing generally gets cheaper đđą) Of if locations get their own solar and batteries ( a big expense) then Iâd love to see places like shopping centres, libraries, gyms and other places that people âlingerâ have a a whole parking lot of slow AC chargers so that people can top up their cars a little whilst they spend money at these locations.
Granted itâs easy for me to imagine this would be nice, I donât know what the cost of this would be in terms of install, hardware, maintenance and cost of power. So it may not make financial sense. But would be nice. âșïž
@@notacarguy_au One of the issues at Forest Hill is they have a 24 hour Gym. People arrive before 5am, and seem to be plugged in forever (namely the young bloke that stays plugged in for 9+ hours, (he must be VERY fit !) Speaking of which, has anyone noticed that there is a SPECIFIC brand of cars that tend to be left way overtime? And a certain type of driver too...
There is possibly an emergency reboot button on the charger, else a 24 hour phone line to request a reboot or charging stop so you can remove the plug or even just leave it plugged in but they are not benefitting from continued charging
Ivâe seen people just push the red button and turn the charger off. Iâve even seen once of twice they upplug the offending vehicles. But that doesnâtâ seen to worry them. So unfortunately that doesnât seem to be the solution.
I am hesitant to pull their plug out as I donât want to touch some elseâs property and also it wouldnâtâ help as the car there would still be blocking the spot. Now I do happen to have a 10 meter cable, so I could probably unplug them, be parked 3-4 spots across and still manage, but I donât want to touch their property and also they would should be more considerate. đ€·đ»ââïžâșïž
@@notacarguy_au You could also check the with the charging company hotline for their advice or to make a report. Some will say to never unplug a car. It seems controversial topic because I asked both ChatGPT and Gemini "robots" and both agreed it is reasonably mannered to pull out plug especially if the plugged-in driver is abusing the system or you are in bad situation, with ChatGPT being the least passive-
ChatGPT: "When someone has finished charging their electric vehicle (EV), it's generally considered good manners to **wait a moment** before removing the charging cable plug from their car. This allows them to unplug it themselves if they're nearby. If they're not around, you can carefully disconnect the cable, ensuring not to damage anything. Being considerate and respectful of others' charging time is essential in shared charging spaces. đ"
Gemini: "It's generally not considered good manners to unplug someone else's car charger, even if you believe they've finished charging or exceeded a time limit. It's best to leave a note for the car owner or find another charging station.
Here are some alternative approaches:
* Look for signs indicating charging time limits. If a limit is posted and clearly exceeded, you could politely leave a note mentioning the time limit and that you need to charge.
* If there are multiple charging stations available, use a different one instead of unplugging someone else's car.
* If you must unplug the charger, leave a visible note on the car explaining your situation and offering an apology for the inconvenience."
You know those price stickers that supermarkets used to use before scanners to deter sticker swapping before purchase, that would only come off a tiny bit at a time. I am surprised some sticker company like Zazzle or similar doesn't manufacture an A4 sticker saying "I love hogging EV charging bays". One of these on the back windscreen that will take an hour or more to get off would make me think twice about parking there again.
I would happily pay $20 or so for 2 or 3 of them to keep rolled up for times like you describe.
The thing is, that would make you feel better, cause you feel like you've struck a blow for justice. đ€Ł I am certainly not throwing shade as I've certainly thought of loads of "unprofessional" things I'd like to do in these situations, but I don't think any of them are actually going to help or solve the problem. đ€·đ»
It would be fun, at least for the person putting the sticker on. âșïž
@@notacarguy_au yes good point. I think you are just a nicer guy than me. But I would get double pleasure of not only applying the sticker but also lying, smiling in bed that night imagining that person getting it off.
Passive approach #1: leave a note on their windscreen . Repeat offenders might get more (see Aggressive below).
Passive #2: As a council I'd like them to erect a sign that clearly states the parking time limit (eg. 4 hours P4, or even less). If course this would rely on parking inspectors do their thing.
Passive #3: Camera as you suggest. Offenders get fined.
Aggressive #1: As someone else suggested msg on their windscreen with a permanent marker.
Aggressive #2: Take a photo and shame them via social media. Perhaps send the photo to Chargefox who might be able to lock them out?
I would always lean towards the passive approach myself. âșïž I donât think notes would help as most of the repeat offenders have been spoken to âpolitelyâ and asked not to continue doing it. One of the actually got quite grumpy with me when I asked if he could please not leave his car there past the 4 hour limit. I pointed out to him that he was probably getting grumpy because he knew I was right. I didnât wait around to hear his thoughts on it and drove off. đ
Thereâs a couple of things that might work:
Contact Councillors (especially if you have pro EV Cllr who is standing for reelection this year) and have them follow up with Council staff on your behalf about punitive measures like parking tickets
Activate a community space around the charger so people donât feel like they need to leave the area to do other things, see if thereâs a coffee or food van that might like to park nearby a couple of times a week, maybe Council can install infrastructure like an outdoor gym or working space.
Treat it with some humour and a couple of you get together and maybe write a letter on behalf of the charger to your local paper or community newsletter if you have one. Keep it light and avoid targeting people specifically, and maybe the message might get through to the people misusing itâŠ
Those are good ideas. I am not sure having facilities near would help. There is a lovely cafe just a block away that I often go to if I am going to charge there for more an 30 minutes or so. Itâs mostly the overnight chargers that arenât picking up their cars early in the morning that are the issues and a few of them have a CVP sticker on the car, which I think means they are cabs or car services.
I am not sure a friendly note would help, it may. But I actually saw one of the folks once picking up their car and I asked politely if they could please not leave their car overnight and then into the morning. He got quite grumpy with me. I said to him âI think youâre getting angry because you know I am right?â He grumbled and walked away. đ
@@notacarguy_au this is why locals are always the best judges of their local communities! It sounds like punitive measures will be the most effective especially if the vehicles are for commercial use. I would absolutely recommend following up with a Councillor then if youâre not having much luck with the actual staff. Hope it all works out for you!
@@notacarguy_au I spoke to someone for the same reason once, he never said a word to me, but he knew he was in the wrong.
Personally, I think free charging is the culprit.
I say put a fee (per kWh or minute), set up a pay kiosk, and charge stiff idle fees.
That money can then be used to install another four charging posts, giving 8. Now youâve doubled the capacity of the station. After the fees and fines collected warrant it, install another four posts.
People will always take advantage of free. Most probably donât most of the time, but then theyâre the ones getting nothing of the service they want and need because of the nimrods running amok.
Thatâs my suggestion. đ
So what youâre saying is we canât have nice things? đ€Ł
@@notacarguy_au Sadly, yes.
I mean, the price to charge could be cheap, next to free possibly. But then the idle fees need to be really stiff and painful. Give a bit of a grace period. Everyone can do just like you - set an alarm to remind them to get their car. How much effort does that take you? Next to none, Iâd bet.
As to your title about nice things⊠youâve answered your own question really. Look what happens when you put nice things out. Some people, mind you not all, come along and just take advantage of it.
Why? Upbringing (or lack thereof)? Inconsideration for others? Self- importance above all others? All the above?
Iâd say that right now in that situation there are some people who are taking the lions share of the goods, leaving everyone else with empty plates, and empty batteries.
âWe tried folks. We really did. But, the reality is, itâs not working for everyone.â
Make it work for everyone.
Hey Lee, loving your videos main reason Iâm getting a Tesla model Y. Iâm in Melbourne too, I was wondering if you know of any good CBD parking and charges to use? PlugShare is good, but just wondering if you know any local infođ thanks man, ciao đ
Hi, Iâm sorry, but I donât, I think Iâve been in the CBD probably 2-3 times in the last 5 years. đ I did stumble on one a few months ago. My team and I were live streaming an event for a client and I parked in the First Parking lot on Mcilwaith Place just off Bourke street. Up towards Parliament end. I couldnât find the chargers when I got there and I was in a hurry to get to the job and so didnât look too hard.
Then as I was driving out, they are on your right just before the exit. 3 plugs and I think they are free, but of course you need to pay for the parking. And only being three spots, Iâd image they could be pretty busy. They werenât being used when I left, but I was leaving at about 10pm on a Thursday night, so would hope theyâd be free by then đ
Appreciate that may not be hugely help, but itâs the only experience I have with that. đ€·đ»ââïžâșïž
@@notacarguy_au haha thatâs all good, I thought Iâd ask and thank you for your reply. Also, regarding this video what you said is perfect, having it timed with a camera then ticketed if they overstay the 4 hours. The plug in hybrid đŹ really! Haha
Love the videos!
ooh - just a thought - buy some cheap wheel clamps and just clamp people - would be bloody inconvenient as they rang everyone they could thing of trying to get it taken off and they'd end up cutting it off themselves lol - they wouldn't do it again though after all that messing around
Yeah, but that sounds like a fair bit of messing around on our part as well. đ€Ł also I never want to do something that affects other peopleâs stuff.
Even if I think they are being selfish, I donât think escalating will help. I can assure you Iâve thought of much worse I could do, but I never would. đ€Ł
Which council chargers are these? I also find that very frustrating too
They arenât at the council, but they are managed by the council. Interestingly the council have another two for public use at the council chambers in Glen Eira.
Don't hesitate......EDUCATE .... via note, comments etc. Maybe advise her that charging all night will ruin her battery and/or start a fire. Selfish people normally respond when it effects them
That's not a bad idea. Not sure it would resonate, but worth a try.
Why not just enable idle chargers
That is up to the council that manages the chargers.
Hehe at the free 11kw 4 hour spot now yes they leave it here overnight all the time. Sad I always come here at about 70% so it is 2 hours and wait in the car. I think the solution should be that chargefox should be needed to start the charge and then auto start charging them at normal rates after 3-4 hours so people cant leave them and also then monitors their daily use so they cant just stop and restart
Yeah, that could work, but then that swings to the other argument that charging is "complicated" and needs apps. I don't think that is all that complicated, but I can see how someone who just wants to charge could find it that way.
It's a shame, cause it's really nice how you can "just" plug in, push the green button and away you go.
â@@notacarguy_au unfortunately like all new tech it will be too complicated until they do "how to" guides on Sunrise
@@ForestLandSea So, what you're saying is once I get a spot on Sunrise, then I will know I've "made it"? đ€Ł
â@@notacarguy_au yep sadly true đ
Start charging for the chargers. Itâs the only solution.
So what you're saying is "we can't have nice things"? đ€Łđ
Do not provide free charging, then charge an idle fee
But I want free charging. đ€Ł
Seems like you know who the repeat offenders are. Snap photos and send to the Council and your local Councillor (check your Ward representative and contact them directly).
Don't be put off by the usual 'it's not my job' approach and be the squeaky wheel. Persistence pays off.
Freeloaders need to be called out as they spoil it for everyone else.
Good luck.
Thanks, Whilst I havenât done that, as I donât really use those charges that often. Iâve been told by two people that Iâve spoken to whilst at the location that theyâve tried it and havenât really had any response. I should follow up, but pretty flat out at the moment general life stuff. đ
Do what WA EV network has done. No free charging and if you stay longer than you need to
it costs $1 per minute after that. Wonât take long for folks to learn to move along. Charging beyond 80% is slow and inefficient anyway no need to do that usually.
The Chargefox app will notify drivers when their charge is nearly complete and again once fully charged at which time there is a grace period of 10 minutes to disconnect your vehicle.
For every additional minute a car remains connected to the fast charger after it is fully charged and after the 10 min grace period, an idle fee of $1 per minute will be incurred.
Another thing they do is if the wifi/mobile network is down and canât communicate with app or web it is free to plug in and charge âfree vendâ. And it gives a backup of at least the slower AC charger if the fast DC one is offline.
If you can plug in at home do, and leave the public chargers to folks who donât have that luxury. None of which should be free. Everybody pays. There is no free petrol/diesel.
There isn't free petrol, but this isn't petrol. The electrcity can be generated for "free" once you've recouped the cost of solar panels for example.
There are also loads of companies that offer "free" or "cheap" things to promote something. In this case the council is offering free charging to encourage folks to take up electric cars.
Just like medical treatment and some medications are "subsidised" by the government becuase they realise that prevention is better than cure.
Health insurance companies offer discounts if you can prove that you're doing to the gym and taking care of yourself.
@@bertborzoi We are talking about AC chargers here, not DC fast chargers.
I've seen someone drive up in a Tesla, hop out, unplug a car that was charging and move it then drive the new car into the spot and drive away in the charged car. I don't know if it's a family with multiple EVs or if these people are being paid to change others' EVs.
This spot is being abused and if anything, these antics will put people off EVs. They should charge what the electricity costs them and have idle fees.
I think if you're not using the facilities at the site, in this case the park, bowls club or community centre and are using the free charging you're abusing the system. I think this probably includes you Lee when you park a car there for 4 hours and walk home. If there's a fee that covers the costs and a fee for overstaying it becomes a much more useful community service for the council to offer as there's half a chance the charger will be available for someone who actually needs it, not blocked by a freeloader, who, is less likely to care about how their actions impact on others.
I don't agree with your point that the chargers should only be available to people using the facilities at the location. Perhaps in the future when more people drive EVs but for now, if only people who were using the club facilities could use them, they would stand idle for a fair bit of time.
So much so that the council would decide to remove them as they weren't getting enough use?
Now if every council facility had chargers that may be a different story. But it's a bit of chicken and egg don't you think?
I think as long as the council is providing the chargers they should be open to anyone and everyone as long as people use them within the parameters that they've been provided, which in this case is the 4 hour limit.
I'd love to see a day where most places where people "linger" like malls, libraries, gyms and event locations have a row of 10-20 chargers were folks can "top up" whilst they are using the facilities. I think it will happen, but we have a long way to go till then.
Ihave seen the exact same thing with a Mercedes on charge, then swapped out for a Tesla. Speaking of Mercs (and others) they can have FREE UNLIMITED USE of ChargeFox for up to 5 YEARS, but we really need to have them limited to 3-4 hours.
The community pays for the power supplied to those EVs. If people can't behave fine them. You showed that the App can tell them how long the vehicles have been there. Fine them for overstaying the 4 hours.
It seems simple yet it seems itâs not getting done. Perhaps it will in time?
@@notacarguy_au ChargeFox needs better rules...