How Baldur's Gate 3 is Confusing New D&D 5e Players
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- čas přidán 26. 01. 2024
- Explaining the rule changes made in BG3 that are not the same in Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition.
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Baldur's Gate 3 is a role playing video game based off of the popular TTRPG, Dungeons and Dragons, more specifically 5th edition. While BG3 uses 5e as inspiration for the mechanics and playstyle, there are some major rule changes, and mechanics added, in Baldurs Gate 3 that are not apparent in D&D 5e, which can lead to transitioning into dnd 5e be a bit confusing for first time players. Here we will be explaining the Ruiling differences between dnd 5e and BG3
One Shot Questers is a sketch comedy channel dedicated to tabletop role-playing games, encompassing a range of titles such as Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition (DnD 5e), Pathfinder (PF 1, PF 2), City of Mist, and DC20. Our content covers a variety of TTRPG topics, including news, class or character stereotypes, guides & how to’s on gameplay, rules, tips, tricks, and much more, all presented in a humorous and entertaining skit. For a quick taste of our most popular content, check out our short-form videos on platforms like TikTok, CZcams Shorts, and Instagram Reels. - Komedie
Slight Clarification: Feather Fall is a REACTION in 5e which would have made the players suggestion legal to cast, but the player would of had to jump off the cliff first and then used his reaction to cast IF he didn’t cast a spell as a bonus action. Feather fall might have been the wrong example to use in this video but it still gets the point across.
I was just about to write the obligatory "um actually" comment lol
Reaction spells don't seem to apply to the typical limit on spellcasting action economy, as it has been confirmed that counterspelling a counterspell to your own spell (Bonus action / Action) is a valid move. It's more likely that reaction spells, being so swift to use, don't apply to the typical limit rather than Counterspell being the only exclusion to the rule.
@@redwarrior864 tbf the typical limit is literally only on Bonus Action spells.
yeaaaaaa.... I was like "when I scroll down am I gonna find the correction" :D
Still doesn't quote the right rule - you can cast as many levelled spells as you want during your turn (for example with Action Surge), but once you cast one as a Bonus Action, all others must be Action Cantrips.
This is the equivalent of someone who watches the Yugioh anime playing the game and realizing that you don't draw the exact card you need to get out of a pinch every other turn.
This comment wins because it uses a YuGiOh! reference
I play Pot of Greed!
They clearly didn't believe in the heart of the cards! 😂
Wait so you're saying in the card game I can't launch my Knight riding a dragon at the moon to cause a change of terrain? Well crap!
You don't but your opponent always will
the fact that drinking potions as a bonus action isn't an official rule yet shocks me I've been using that rule in my campaigns for so long I forgot it was a homebrew rule lol
I actually let my players buy potion belts, any potion stored in the belt can be used as a bonus action and all others will use an action.
I first introduced belts which hold up to 3 potions with the intention to make bigger belts available later on but it wasnt necessary so far.
To be fair, one action takes around 3 seconds of time and drinking a whole glass bottle of suspicious liquid in 3 seconds is quite impressive.
Even one action for a potion might be too generous, not even starting with bonus actions
D&d is already too easy for the pcs, why a dm would make the easiest d&d edition even easier is beyond me
@The_Sharktocrab Because some people aren't joyless scolds. I swear trolls back in the day tried harder
@@frostyblade8842 not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll, what a horrible perspective to have
I've used jump more in BG3 this morning than I have in 5+ years playing D&D. If anything, BG3 showed us we need more options for Bonus Actions in D&D.
Eh. I'd argue you just haven't used jumping as often as you could have in 5e. Not every class/subclass or ancestry has a bonus action to use. Jump being tied to your movement not only makes sense but leaves your potential bonus action free for more impactful options
Absolutely, common theme in our campaigns during combat. A lot of "well, I don't have anything useful as a bonus action, so...I guess my turn is done." Sad face
@@barbdwyer22 Yep. BAs are pretty much useless for the majority of classes, which is a shame. There should be more options to at least add some flavor to BAs, like jumping for example. Though I'd say maybe not the extreme jumps you get in BG3, you can basically jump across the whole area if you have enough strength, and I feel that wouldn't be the easiest to control in tabletop lol
@@nyxnightmare3542 There are also 2 items in Goblin Camp that increase jumping distance by 1.5m each. (Swiresy Shoes, and Monster Slayer Glaive)
A raging Tiger-heart Barbarian with 18 strength, + those two items + "Athlete" feat (also to top off the strength to 18) + the "enhanced jump" spell, can jump like 80 meters.
This feels so jarring to me at a table where everyone is usually choosing between a handful of Bonus Actions each turn.
We had a player who kept trying to throw healing potions to up a downed player.
I mean, it’s pretty cool you can do that
i played an entire BG3 playthrough with 3 other people where my Barbarian was the only healer with throwing Potions at people hehe :D Its fun and hilarious.
@@OneShotQuestersdo you find it cool that in some games you can drink a potion to delay drowning?
(Cough cough terraria, probably minecraft too)
Tbf, this wouldn't break anything in D&D, and add a little challenge to see how well they throw it. Could be that the player misses and now loses a health potion. Could be the player misses and accidentally hits the enemy, who heals instead. Would add a little more risk and reward to the game
@@skyhealing517 Not potions, but healing items and foo while drowning in some moderately well-known Bethesda games.
Feather fall is a reaction, not a bonus action, so he can cast magic missile, run off the cliff, then use his reaction to cast feather fall. He starts floating gently to the ground.
Check my pinned comment ❤️
You can not cast 2 slotted spells in one round. MM 1st level, FF 1st level.
@@oldfartrick you can. The rule is about bonus action spells, not anything else. You could fireball, action surge fireball and réaction counterspell à counterspell on your turn without any issue
@@maitrecorbeau_gm why are you counterspelling on your turn?
@@smalltime0 because someone else is counterspelling my fireball !! 😡 nobody counterspell my fireball !!
"But you sure need them for DnD."
Well, that explains why I haven't played in years...
Me too
And i wannt it so bad!
Thing is, you really do not need friends. Strangers will also do, and who knows, maybe over time, they become your friends, either local or online.
@@tripler2833 And if shove comes to push, there are tools available for solo play. Some designed specifically for 5e, others (such as Mythic GME) designed for any system.
...Don't know if anyone's doing solo published adventures for D&D, mind. A few exist for other systems (Chaosium seem to be particularly good at that for CoC in particular)
But, yeah, online LFG posts are a great way to find fun games in my experience.
@@tripler2833I play with strangers, they’re great
@@tripler2833OH GOD
You know some things wouldnt be the worst to implement in dnd
Honestly most changes they did for BG3 just make a lot of sense for the non-digital version as well.
I think the potion throwing I'd say should use up a reaction of the target and/or some moderate skill check and probably not work on someon who is downed but other than that its all reasonable.
Especially the special attacks are a nice thing for martials who tend to have issues more than casters in many circumstances.
@@GamerdevilPro Potion throwing/splashing I agree makes no sense in D&D.
When I found out about it for BG3 I of COURSE happily abused it.
Yeah, like...Ranger and Monk are actually playable in BG3 🤣
@@IronLordEXO I've just watched a Dungeon Dudes video about "what if everyone in the party played monk", and they came to the realization that Monks are only weak in comparison to other classes, but on their own they can actually be quite competent and have a lot of cool fun stuff they can do.
@@IronLordEXO Ranger is also playable in 5e, as long as it isn't a vanilla Beast Master. Monk on the other hand... let's just say that I had to come up with some self made homebrew changes to buff them a little bit.
As someone who's played DnD since the AD&D era, played 5th edition, and Baldur's Gate, I think it would be good if a publishing group like Kobold Press got with the guys at Larian Studios and wrote a book that outlined the differences between 5th Edition and the modified ruleset that BG3 uses, that way both players and DMs could have a comprehensive look at the differences so that can pick and choose for their table.
Let's be honest though does Kobold work with dnd anymore after all that has happened? I know various companies went their own way and started to make their own stuff while blacklisting hasbro. Can't say I blame them
why should they do that? They don't make money from dnd
its WoTC should be doing that to get more benefit from third party investment
Honestly, I think the martial classes should get the special weapon attacks from BG3 to close the gap between casters and martials (because casters get buffs all the time in the form of new spells in supplement books, while martials only ever see buffs in the form of a new subclass [or Tasha's straight up giving a do-over to Ranger's core features]).
I mean, an official Baulders 3 D&D source book would be ballin
Unfortunately, WOtC are not ballin
agree. after playing bg3 and realizing:
1. the tooltips were just... lacking; esp considering they have (some) hombrew rules.
2. it didn't have its own rulebook, even in digital pdf form.
I was hoping they'd sit down with a publisher and get a rulebook/module out, one that can also be used at actual tables. hopefully one comes out alongside their definitive edition of the game.
I actually had the reverse problem of assuming many DnD rules is how it works in BG3. I didn't know you could change your prepared spells outside of a longrest or level up until waaaaay late in my first playthrough. I made the game so much harder for myself on MANY accounts.
Honestly same, but it didn't really affect me much since my only long rest spellcaster was Shadowheart and since I changed her to a War cleric she pretty much always had the spells she needed prepared plus extra.
Honestly I thought the same thing for sooooo long 😂
Sounds like a good challenge run though.
Wait, you can just level up on longrest? I play Dnd really wrong, but who cares, I have fun.
@@xMayfliethe only reason I found out is because I keep accidentally removing abilities within the UI soo I had to go to spell book to bring them back for quick usage
The beauty of homebrewing “that doesn’t exist in D&D … yet”
I mean knowing wizards- it never will be. Homebrew like Warhammer or Zweihander instead. Or world of darkness
Yeah the beauty of homebrewing... you get a DM that breaks the game and then takes no responsibility and starts breaking monsters and it is a cycle.
@@thomgizziz yeah, but its funny.
…. Did the dm like being called the narrator
say it again...but slower
@@OneShotQuestersnaaarrraatttooorrrrrrrrrr
@@OneShotQuesters I still don't get it. Blame my autism. Plz explain the joke.
@@blackmage471personal preference. Seems to tickle an itch he had....by which I mean he just really likes it.
@@blackmage471 At the start of the video:
Player: "Hey, narrator?"
DM: "...is this a new kink?"
Player: "I wanna play DnD after playing BG3. Can you be my dungeon master?"
DM: "No, no, no. Call me what you called me before."
Player: "...narrator?"
DM: "Yes it is."
Like calling someone "Master" or "Daddy." But "Narrator" lol.
As someone who played a lot of 5e before jumping into BG3, Baldur’s gate has better combat for martials. I said it. It’s not even realistically close. I can throw a goblin at a goblin. I can shove as a bonus action. I have multiple attack options just for weapon proficiency. There are some quality of life improvements for casters, like not needing Warcaster to use a shield, but the difference can really be felt for martials and especially Barbarian.
Yeah, I use Weapon specific moves too now and throwing, etc. As a Bonus Action. Its better this way.
Bg3 is better for martials. Weapon specific actions allows you to toy with more weapon versatility unlike in tabletop where every player of mine and myself have used basically the same weapon. There’s a table online that translates the weapon actions into 5E I’ve been thinking about incorporating into my campaigns.
@@FreddieMercurytheSharkWrestler plus it adds a TON of flavor to wielding different weapons. I'm playing a Battlemaster/Rogue in tabletop so I have TONS of options already, but 2 players are doing Barbarian and I feel bad cause their action is maybe rage and then hit, and that's it.
What would ever be the point of being a battle master fighter then? It’s like they gave some of their most iconic moves to everyone
@@Mavokie Hot take: Maneuvers should just be a base fighter feature because the only reason people don’t pick other fighters is because Battlemaster has been the obvious best/most versatile choice since the PHB.
To be honest I found it very helpful in certain situations. I am pretty new to DnD and am playing a sorcerer in my current campaign, I didn’t realize how good sorcery points were till I started using them in BG3
The hardest things for me to remember in BG3 that will improve my tabletop play when I internalize them:
Frenzy THEN attack.
Use sorcery points (!).
Use that Magician "get magic back" ability (sorry, I forget the name).
Don't be stingy with the Cleric divinity ability.
-
Huh. A lot of them are of the "use the ability instead of reaching long rest with it still available" variety...
Plus I'm giving classes I haven't had a chance to play in dnd an opportunity
Cause a campaign in dnd can take ages while I have several playthroughs in bg3 and so I just have more chance to explore them
@@MonkeyJedi99 "Use that Magician "get magic back" ability (sorry, I forget the name)."
It's called Arcane Recovery.
@@tripler2833 Right! Thanks.
@@MonkeyJedi99 This depends on the DM. If they are using proper wilderness rules, you WILL have encounters about half the time (little less than half) you attempt a long rest in the wild.
Potions as a bonus action are a classic homebrew rule I will FOREVER incorporate in my games.
I like the homebrew that…
1 full action potion = max role because you take time to drink it.
Bonus action you hastily shot it down and have to roll normally.
I think more people use this home rule than RAW
I love this rule!
Been using this for ~3 years in my games. Potions usually cost a lot and are hard to come by, especially at T1 and sometimes T2 play. Players feel much better if they get the full benefits of their purchase or hard earned loot.
Bonus rule: for potions that have effects, give the full duration on a full action to drink; example you use an action to drink a potion of flight = you get one minute of flight. Use a bonus action and you roll a d10 to see how many turns you manage to gulp.
HI, one of those people that started playing dnd like a month before I played BG3, and our dm straight up said the second we got our first healing potion "Bonus action, roll normally, action heal for full". :D Had no idea it wasn't an official rule
I'm playing with the idea of free action potions that are easily available, but use hit dice to cap how often they can be used between long rests.
Understanding Baldur’s Gate’s rules and mechanics is a good starting point for learning 5e though. One of the scariest things about learning how to play TTRPGs is how much there is to learn, even if they won’t need to know all of it. Getting some experience with very similar mechanics in BG3 makes getting into 5e a lot easier.
I have to agree, this is how i finaly understood dnd mechanics and everything. Before it was too complicated for me
Wait wait wait wait so you're telling me, that I can prepare my Spells at any time while playing Baldur's Gate 3? This whole time I've been waiting until after I level up to prepare my spells!
As long as you're not in combat yeah
Yep, only restriction is that you can't be in combat, I believe.
And obviously, that only applies to classes that actually prepare, such as wizards, clerics and druids for example.
Why did you wait until level up? Tabletop rules state you can change every long rest so I'm confused why you thought you couldn't change till a level up. Unless you were playing a sorcerer, they use known spells and can only change out a spell at a level up.
LoL, I wouldn't even know where to look to prepare my spells.
@@meoff7602 As a sorcerer player, I was very confused when I first had Gale in party...
I really wish someone made like a BG3 player handbook. Written down like any other 5e book, like addind the shove bonus action and being like "you push away a creature a number of feet equal to 5 * your strenght modifier, etc" and so on with the rest of the BG3 action economy and items, would be fun to try
Hopefully it will be official like the vox machina handbooks. Some things bg3 did are well and fun.
Many of the changes come from the upcoming 5e refresh so there's that at least. PHB in September and DMG in November I think.
The BG3 handbook will be glorious! And Published! And obsolete in 2 months when they do bug fixes, balancing, etc. Sorry.
Very accurate. Bg3 has lots of changes to make combat easier, faster and more exciting. It's weird how the design team didn't go with a lot of those changes for the new edition, would've made a lot of sense, honestly
DnD is nothing more than a blueprint anyway, you can do whatever you want to make your game more exciting, just talk to your Dungeon Master.
Not really. 5e is a different game, with many flaws, but it's design is very intentional in being more in line with the traditional table top experience - a lot of what you consider quality of life changes in BG3 are vital parts of the 5e experience that together make for a more grounded experience that force the player to think a little more about the decisions they make, including how to assign their action/bonus action when they plan to cast a spell, or how many hit dice to spend on a long rest when considering how many they'd have left - or how potions being a full action means that they can't rely on chugging one every turn, therefore encouraging play that's more aware of the danger of death. Oh and don't even get me started on the revivify changes...
In 5e, you're in constant mortal danger if you truly die and don't have a caster with Revivify ready - as well as expensive diamonds. Your character means more to you thanks to the interactive, living, breathing nature of TTRPG play with a living DM, and thus, death being much more real is so much more impactful than "Oh, Astarion bit the dust? Eh who cares, Revivify here, or actually I'll just have Withers revive him"
BG3 changes make sense in a streamlined game like this. Yet I can't help but wish for the game to more accurately capture the grounded feel of 5e.
Hit dice to spend on a *short rest, my bad
@@Isaax i agree on the withers revivify part. Saying you're in constant threat of death simply isn't true though.. at least not in my personal 6 years of dnd experience. Unconscious, sure, but actual death? I've had 2 character deaths in my games, one of which was a plot device, where my dm and fellow player had discussed playing a new character, which led to the character "sacrificing himself for the group". The other death was during my very first campaign. a lvl 2 player mouthing off against 3 bugbears and dying before he even got a turn, which felt so unfair that we decided to retcon the entire thing.
My point being: 5e has a very mild handling of death. Characters have 3 additional death saves to go through before they actually die. And even then, you can simply revive them in numerous ways. Threat of death was way more prevalent in previous editions.
But to get back to my initial comment; i wasn't talking about character death in the first place. Combat feels faster, smoother and more interesting with a number of rules being changed. For example:
Jumping isn't weird anymore and just works without having to look up how far you can jump.
Being a non-caster gives you options with your weapons, whereas 5e has none.
(I gotta go to work, but there's tons more i could think of.)
Nobody would be playing 5E DnD, if it played like Baldur's Gate 3, mate. That's the joke.
BG3 is so mind-numbingly simplified and streamlined, that with any prior knowledge of how table top works (or if you just played Pathfinder games, since they use table top rules 1:1, and Pathfinder is DnD 3.5E homebrew), it's essentially impossible to lose at any point, even with zero preparation. I personally stopped carrying potions and scrolls on me halfway through Act 2 and broke the romance system due to not long resting nearly enough to move things forward.
Im so glad you said "yes everyone does anyways" to the drinking a potion lmao
Fun fact: the 5e rules let you cast as many spells as you want in a turn, *unless* one of them is a bonus action spell. A dip into PHB fighter to get action surge means that you can get a second full action, and then you are allowed to cast a levelled spell with both of them. (Note that this doesnt work with the OneDND preview because that version of the fighter can't action surge to cast spells, other ways of getting a second action still work, not that there are many)
I really appreciate how Narrator is supportive and willing to help the other dude learn, even if it was from different grounds.
The ending though 😭 I've wanted to get into D&D since seeing all the props and figurines at the mall as a kid. Then I saw it come up in Stranger Things and was instantly reminded of it and wanted to play with friends so bad.... But apparently no one else did 🥲 so here we are 8 years later FINALLY getting to play the closest thing to D&D with a built in "teach you how function" even if it is a little different
Never played Baldurs gate but I’ve always said that drinking a healing potion should be a bonus action.
I've long houseruled that drinking a 'readied' potion is a bonus action. On your belt? Bonus action. Rummage through your backpack? Not a bonus action. The in-world explanation for the change is that potions in my campaign setting are far more potent so have as much liquid as a shot of tequila.
It was actually an in-character funny bit once - they were in Sigil chasing a devil that had escaped them, went to an apothecary, and were offered 'standard action' potions, leading the barbarian to demand 'how the hell do you drink THIS in the middle of a fight without someone running you through?" (referring to both the standard action and provoking attacks of opportunity).
@@gork8468This is a very fair rule. You can't have a ton of potions on your belt like BG3, since it's a video game, but any that are prepped should be a bonus action. I'm sure the cleric in the party is gracious for this rule.
One of my dms uses the rule: "drinking a healing potion is a bonus action but you have to rill or you can take an action to get the full health that the potion provides"
Potion quick slots have been around since BG1 back in the 90s. We even adopted them in our 1e games back then.
but you still have to seathe your weapon or lose your shield (unless your character uses only a one handed weapon), get the potion from your belt, remove the bottle cap, probably evade a few attacks... sounds like an action to me, and not an easy one. I'd say is an action and the movement portion of the round actually, but i used to play AD&D so i probably know nothing
Honestly a lot of the balder’s hate rules are improvements. Camp supplies (as an optional rule) works with people who want a slightly more grounded/difficult game while not bogging down the game too much with “when did I last eat?” “So we have food and water?” Just lump it all under camp supplies and worry about it at long rests. Bonus action potions. Weapons granting different attacks(like seriously if I have a great sword why can’t I swing In a big arc to try to hit multiple close targets?) and locking them behind proficiency means the dm can tailor the weapons for the specific party members. Plus 2 leveled spells in a turn if you can would be nice(specifically misty step and something else.
The two leveled spells in a turn unfortunately breaks the game in half at higher levels so that ones not realistic from a balancing point of view.
@@joshuabean7805Ok, but you can cast two leveled spells according to RAW.
You could for example cast fireball, proceed to junp off of a cliff and use your reaction to cast feather fall. Totally legal as per RAW.
Another way would be to use action surge. As long as you don't cast a spell using your bonus action, you can cast a spell, action surge and cast another spell.
@@joshuabean7805 never had any problem with removing that rule which it’s pretty much a nonsense (because it’s not like it’s using more time to cast a spell) A lot of people I know don’t actually use it. Players like to have the opportunity to make more thing by turn. (Btw cr campaign 1 pretty much forget about this rule too ✨) I mean if your player use all of it spellslots it’s their problem. ✌️
@@joshuabean7805 The only thing that really breaks the game with this is Quicken Spell, however Misty step, shield of faith, healing word, etc, should not prevent you from casting a levelled spell on that turn. But Casters don't need more buffs honestly so it might be a good thing to have restrictions
@@prodICYN that's mostly what I mean, a high level socercer using quicken spell or a Wizard with the Meta magic adept feat to be able to cast any 2 spells (particularly ones above 5th level) per turn can trivialize almost any encounter. I guess you could balance it by making quicken only able to affect spells of say 4th level or lower but even that's dodgy. At least with action surge you can only do that once per short rest so it acts more as a last ditch clutch rather than being an entire playstyle a DM has to balance around.
This is why I am adding the weapon actions into 5e for my games. They make martials have cool tricks that don't really take away from anything but makes them have more fun.
Same, sure its more to keep track of but it adds a lot of flavor to individual weapons plus it's a new way to customize magic weapons by giving them a unique combat maneuver. I think a lot of DMs are adding them to their games and it sounds like they will be a mechanic for OneDnD.
I just hand out magic weapons like candy, and never that +1 BS.
A sword that uses charges to shapeshift for different effects, sounds good to me.
And I've seen at least two campaigns now where the DM let the player use an immovable rod as part of their hammer/axe, and two separate ones where a character used a beartrap on a chain to grab and pull an enemy.
100%, it also makes having different weapons feel more distinct.
Or just let them RP describe how they are attacking instead of "i attack this one and then attack again".
@@kamikeserpentail3778 Bear trap on chain! I used that as fishing rod when we were looking for lochness! (And it actually helped finding it :D )
If anyone wants to try a video game with a much more accurate translation of the 5e rules, try Solasta: Crown of the Magister.
It's a quality indie production. Don't forget to support the little guys.
Yeah, it's pretty good. I beat that about a year before BG3 fully released.
Good old Solasta, or as I've been calling it. 'Baulder's gate at home'
true
Wouldn't say it's a more "Accurate translation" given all the homebrew subclasses and jank that comes with them. It's a different interpretation.
Also would strongly recommend the DLCs, lost valley and palace of ice, they made 3 campaigns and each got progressively better as they learned from the mistakes of the previous, as any good DM would. Also maybe play with sound off, the VAs... well the game is voice acted. I'll leave it at that.
Fun game! "BEND THE KNEE!"
3:07 Correction:
A) Feather fall is a reaction spell, which you cast when you are falling
B) The "one leveled spell per turn" rule only applies to actions and bonus actions. Thus, if you use action surge you can fireball twice, or if you cast any level'd spell you could still use counterspell on the lich that just counterspelled you to ensure that your spell goes through.
Thus, he would be able to cast magic missile, then jujmp, then activate featherfall. The only thing he got wrong is that it's not a bonus action.
Isn't the rule about leveled spells in the same turn? I remember Crawford saying the Action Surge spells also need to be cantrips if you already casted a leveled spell, I could be remembering wrong tho
Counterspell happens on another turn so it's not affected, like sneak attack
@@AlkaritNekothe rule is specifically a restriction on bonus action spells.
Eg As a high level eldritch knight you can move away from an enemy triggering an attack of opportunity, cast, shield to block it, action cast fireball, action surge fire ball again for a total of three levelled spells in one turn.
As long as none of the spells you cast are bonus actions you can use as many as you like.
@@AlkaritNeko Consider: you cast hold monster. The monster casts counterspell on your hold monster. You cast counterspell on that counterspell as a reaction. Or, you cast Scorching ray, they cast silvery barbs, you cast counterspell as a reaction on silvery barbs. Counter spell can very much occur on your turn
Gotcha, I had not considered that
The extra attacks giving by holding a weapon(like hamstring shot) give martials extra usefulness and a reason to shortrest over long rest they're a great addition
The most accurate part of this video is the DM explaining the rules just as confidently when he's wrong as when he's right. (And the player goes along with it because they don't know either.)
1. Feather Fall is a reaction spell in 5e, and can be cast in the same turn as a regular spell if the reaction trigger is met. The one-per-turn limitation only kicks in if you cast a Bonus Action spell.
2. You can't long rest as often as you want in 5e. You can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period.
2. is technically true. But in practice, when you're at the table, you can also just say "we wait until we can long rest".
@@Ezullof yeah you can, but DM can and should use that waiting time depending on the situation. Like monster attacks, random encounters, quests time limits etc. So telling - just rest as often as you like is definitely a mistake. And btw, you need rations as well, especially if you're travelling somewhere far from civilization and it's hard to get proper food or water
Honestly having the ability to add to your attack with either your bonus action or a skill check makes combat more engaging, I always run with the rule of cool but use game mechanics to give it boundaries.
The thing though is that the bonus action in BG3 isn't really an "attack". It can deal a little bit of damage but it's usually just 1d4 plus eventual modifiers, and it's limited to once per short rest. And more importantly: it's dependant on the weapon you use.
Larian's goal with this bonus action "attacks" wasn't really to allow an additional attack, it was to make each weapon different.
Honestly most of the changes are improvements to the fun of the system/balance and can be adapted reasonably to tabletop. BG3 is just a 5e table with some good house rules (except changing prepared spells on the fly - that is just dumb)
I didn't even know you could change prepared spells in BG3. I was doing it in camp, and then long resting, like you would in D&D
@@nyxnightmare3542Yeah did that too, and still do, habits die hard.
I'm ok with changing prepared spells on the fly when it makes sense in 5e (like a Wizard just taking the time to reopen their spellbook). What I'm a lot less ok with is:
- being able to cast leveled spells as action and bonus action in the same turn. It just makes some spellcaster classes too powerful at higher levels.
- the lack attunement. I'm actually ok with the generosity of BG3 in terms of magic items (though I prefer when it's less purely combat-oriented), but being limited to 3 attuned magical items is absolutely required for balance imo. Even in BG3 I find it annoying how we can just stack tons of effects. And it also makes items that are not magic but would provide interesting bonus completely useless. Why would I want a +1 sword or armor if I can just have the Shining Fire Pike of Infinite Psionic Destruction instead?
I did a happy medium with this and allow prepared casters to change out spells on a short rest.
@@Ezullofyeah I agree with you on the bonus action spell then full action spell, the most I do to change that is just have it to where if you cast a spell with your bonus action, you can only cast a can trip with your action or vice versa. As for attunement, while I'm okay with being somewhat less restrictive with it I do agree not having it at all is a bad idea. Best solutions i have seen to this is to have other conditions for equipping an item other than attunement such as being a specific class or race or even subclass. Also would be fine if they just made it to where every character just had a couple extra attunement slots on easier difficulties.
I'm super happy you did this in a respectful manner, and yet still comical. Thanks.❤
"In d&d you just bonk and can't attack as a bonus action?"
That is the frustrating thing in 5e that BG3 tries so hard to "fix." Turns often feel very underwhelming because you get to roll one die, maybe miss, then end your turn, especially at early levels." It gets extra annoying with the extra rules, like when I'm a bard and I want to cast Healing Word and another spell in the same turn to try and give support or turn things around but can't.
My d&d group of 5+ years just started a Pathfinder 2e campaign and it's been a refreshing breath of fresh air. 5e is still a fantastic system, but the small changes have created a nice change of pace.
My cousin/DM introduced me to bg3 to help me learn DnD rules and it's actually pretty much working... It's the spells differences that can be a bit confusing sometimes
Thanks to BG3 I realized that cantrips are infinite
Played 3 years with thinking they were same to my spellcasting modifier
Funny thing is- in 3.5e you _did_ have a limited amount of cantrips (4 to be exact, and you didn't get extra slots which was also a thing in 3.5)
Also they didn't scale at all & the offensive cantrips did jack-sh!t (1d3 at most)
....how? Did no DM at any point correct you or did you just not ever read the rules regarding cantrips?
@@Konpekikaminari As it should be today, honestly. Magic shouldn't be infinite, because it makes physical classes useless. Why use a sword if you can play a class who can just constantly cast firebolt and do more damage anyway? 5e is unfortunately a magic only edition
@@nyxnightmare3542 bro 99% of the time a fire bolt is not gonna do more damage then a fighter could as soon as they get that extra attack
@nyxnightmare3542 honestly, yes
Keep the cantrips 5e levels strong (without level scaling), but bring back the 3.5e spell slots (+bonus spells)
Casters are still strong, but at least now martials have their own distinct advantages
ATTENTION: Please be kind and patient with new DnD players. They just dont know. Everyone starts somewhere. And you gotta walk before you can run. It makes the learning curve better and the game more enjoyable when you aren't cranky at them. Thank you, Adventurers.
I just finished my first session 0 with my group of friends, preping for our first real campaign after playing 2 one-shots. This after 300+ hours of BG3. Your video is really fun but man how it helped me understand/remember the actual rules of 5e. Thank you!
I have played dnd for 5 years, my party have played for 5 + years. we all played bg3 for a week. we then, forgot the real rules.
Our DM had to painstakingly remind us all
*How Baldurs Gate 3 is making 5e BETTER because of what they did differently
I fixed the title for you
No, no... power creep is bad and will make most DMs turn up the difficulty leading to things getting out of hand.
@@thomgizziz Power creep isn't bad its the fulfillment of a fantasy. Its how you MANAGE power creep that makes things good or bad.
@@scotthuffman3462 If you are having to manage power creep to make sure it doesn't ruin the game then it is detrimental which makes it a bad thing. Is everybody on youtube this dense?
As someone who's learning how to DM cuz of how much I love BG3, this is immensely helpful
The potion thing is why I've scaled down all potions in my world to be small vials rather than full bottles. Cause chugging a full bottle in 1~3 seconds in the middle of combat would be pretty damn difficult.
I appreciate that this video pointed out the key differences, made it funny, and didn’t come across as pompous or gatekeeping. Really enjoyed it!
This is why it's always a good idea to read the rulebook. Yes, your DM will more than likely be willing to explain things to you as you play, but reading the book will take some of the weight off your shoulder and will help you learn before you play.
This reminds me of Rob Hartley (the GM for Viva La Dirt League)'s series about the differences between BG3 and 5e on what the differences are.
Up vote for Robert Hartley.
@@nailguncrouch1017 Up vote for Robert Hartley.
Hey there OSQ. First off, Love the channel, glad to see things are improving, and you seem happier, so hope there is a Nat 20 in your future. However! Having been watching for quite some time, you missed out on a video to complete the set! WHere is our 1st Edition vs 5th Edition Barbarian Battle!
this is why I reworked martial combat to be more powerful and dynamic. spend an ENTIRE LEVEL to become proficient in one kind of weapon. martial classes get to pick one of these for free upon reaching a certain milestone. (determined by dm.) these proficiencies are more like mutators for the weapon. if you have multiple proficiencies and a weapon is multiple types and they match up, you get both bonuses. for example, tridents apply smite to ALL attacks when in water, plus a bonus proficiency based on certain aspects like rogues getting double attacks for dice along with the 3 extra attacks gained from the proficiency. (these may be innacurate to the document.)
I feel like improving martial attacks should have been in 5e to begin with, because they made cantrips infinite, which means mages are by default overpowered compared to any of the physical classes. Having more improvements for physicals, and more flavor, would balance the classes more, making physicals seem far less boring.
@@nyxnightmare3542 I added blocking, parrying and counterattacks as in depth mechanics relating to AC of individuals.
Had to disappoint my players a couple weeks ago that spirit guardians isnt as completely broken as in bg3 (still amazing tho)
Spirit Guardians probably the best damage spell most players will get to cast in 5e (and because it's half on a save, AoE, stays up for 10 rounds, and slows enemies...and it's only a 3rd level spell) and rivals the damage of Meteor Swarm (assuming you cast Spirit Guardians at 9th level) if you hit the same number targets and keep Spirit Guardians going on those targets for 3 rounds (9d8 per turn per target; Meteor Swarm is 40d6 total per target once). It *is* completely broken in 5e.
Cleric (Spirit Guardians) + Ranger (Spike Growth) + Druid (Plant Growth and Thorn Whip) + Warlock (Eldritch Blast + Repelling Blast/Grasp of Hadar) can create an overlap of 3 different movement impairing effects (half movement speed, difficult terrain, and 4x movement penalty) where anything that can't fly or teleport can't move, and you use forced movement cantrips to run them around Spike Growth like a cheese grater. And this is a good party comp and spell/feature list *without* this combo.
What's the difference? The only one I'm aware of is that you can't cast Spirit Guardian and then healing word in the same turn, but it doesn't really change that Spirit Guardians is very strong, as long as enemies are in range.
In fact, the BG3 version is probably wrong because it only has a 10 feet range (15 feet in 5e). Sure in 5e you need to be able to see the creatures, but how often does that come up anyway?
@@EzullofThe "creatures you can see" is only for protecting your allies from the effect/damage.
@@Ezullof the difference is that spirit guardians isn't as much of a beyblade as it is in bg3.
Spirit guardians triggers when an enemy moves into the aeo or starts their turn there. Unlike in bg3 walking in enemies with spirit guardians up does not trigger this condition. So you can't just run up to a bunch of low HP enemies and melt then immediately. They only take damage when they start their turn in the aeo or they are moved in the aeo
@@Ezullof The main difference is that it triggers on the enemy's turn, not yours, so you can't run around with it on and damage everything as you move. It's more of an area denial spell in 5e (still great though).
All this video taught me is I'd probably enjoy a Larian ttrpg a ton
I’m planning on incorporating the weapon skills into the curse of strahd campaign once I get to it. Gonna change them to proficiency times per day though. I like that it changes your choice of weapon from just damage to what skills I like using
You always make great content dude. I love your videos, shorts, and tiktoks - please keep up the good work.
I noticed a few things that were wrong about BG3 compared to 5e during the EA. I will say I absolutely love the rule change for using potions, elixirs, or poisons. I'm running Wild Beyond the Witchlight for the party and decided to house rule that in because it makes the BBEG's so much scarier in combat plus it's very theme fitting. They also now have a good reason to actually use their dang potions.
Edit: 3:10 Actually you can cast a leveled spell as a reaction, just not as a bonus action; however I don't think Feather fall is a reaction spell.
Feather Fall is indeed a reaction, and it can affect you and up to five falling creatures.
Feather Fall is a reaction and can be used whenever a creature you can see falls, and it can hit 5 total targets and lasts for a minute (but ends on a creature when they land).
You can only cast a spell as a BA if you have used your main action for a cantrip, but casting spells as an action or reaction with slots is perfectly fine. So action surge and reaction causing three spells in one turn is technically legal
Yup. Too many people misinterpreted the "If you cast a leveled spell with your bonus action, you cannot cast a spell with your action, except a cantrip" as "you can only cast one leveled spell per turn."
I haven't DM'ed since old days of 3e but my house rule for healing potions if you spend your entire turn on drinking you get maximum healing effect but if you did it as an extra action you had to role for healing.
0:47 this right here. He execute the emotion of your first decision perfectly
Funny enough this was the opposite for me, I started playing BG3 with dnd rulesets in mind so for the first 10 hours or so, I really underutilized the games action economy and thought way too hard about preparing spells 😅
I am planning to run some of the baldur's gate rule changes after I finish my current campaign. Some of the features like stronger haste and multiple leveled spells are too strong, but potions, jumping, and shoving as bonus actions, along with weapon skills are absolutely good additions.
Are multiple levelled spells too op even when the opponents also have that option?
This is all great information! I’ve never played D&D, but love watching campaigns, and also just started BG3. While this is framed as a comedy sketch, I’m glad you’re pointing out some of the differences. Thank you!
I would be happy to run d&d using 5bg rules.
I'm planning to add all the additional weapon actions to my tabletop honestly
Yeah, the thing about Baldurs gate is its still a videogame, so they gotta make it all, more videogamey lol.
Production quality is insane on this 🙌🏼
Now I'm wondering how hard it would be to just play with Baldur's Gate 3 rules. Has someone compiled them anywhere?
Not that hard, all things considered. The largest balance differences are probably with the magic system shenanigans (abundance of spells that have been declared 'ritual' in BG3, being able to change prepared spells outside combat, and putting double cast upleveled fireballs back on the menu (a call back to the most powerful edition for arcane casters - third).
Even those aren't terrible on the surface - ritualization of a few utility spells might lead to them actually being used, same with being able to change prepared spells quicker than a long rest. Even the quicken change isn't super terrible - until higher levels, where you can quicken 4 to 6 spells a day at a point where it's already a little hair pulling to design an encounter where the arcane casters can throw out a fireball a round for several encounters by upcasting as is.
Oh, and the perfectly awesome yet ridiculous jump. In BG3 characters with 8 strength and no athletics can still manage standing high jumps of six feet or so. 20 str barbarians boast 20-30 foot standing verticals. Eat your heart out, Michael Jordan.
@@gork8468 Upcasting fireball isn't even good. It only adds 1d6 per up cast, which is bad.
Upcasting call lightning is where it's at, that gives 1d10 bonus damage, and you do the extra damage on recasts too, and since recasting can be quickened and hastened, you can potentially cast that spell 3 times a turn with a single spell slot spent.
To be fair. 5e rly needs changes to:
- how normal weapon attacks work (as in giving martials some verity),
- adding versions of potions that can be quickly applied
-and adding more variety in spells, especially non combat spells.
Limiting amount of casts of leveled spells is ok as casting multiple should be a benefit of sorcerers (and I rly think that quick spell should let them cast extra leveled spells)
Regarding potions at our table:
A character can have some of their potions listed as "belt pouch" items which let them be used on self as a bonus action, or on others as a full action.
Digging about in a pack adds rounds.
-
Convenient? Yes. But having potions in a belt pouch or bandoleer also opens them up to being targets of pickpocketing.
I love that deedee animation at the end 😊
You're sitting by your party's trusty gaming table, putting the final touches on a quest for your current campaign, when you're approached by a long time friend that you've invited, several times, to join you.
"Hey, uh, Narrator..." he says, immediately putting you off kilter. Roll for initiative.
The problem is that BG3 spoiles the 💩 out of you 😂
Yes it does.
As someone who's been playing dnd for years now, I can confirm. It absolutely spoils you rotten.
and 5e spoils the shit outta you compared to earlier editions.
But it could have those as options. BG3 rules are pretty awesome.
The laugh at the beginning of "but you sure need friends for dnd" and the sentence itself (5:00) made me chuckle out loud lol
To be fair, some rules for Baldur are good enough to be placed in 5e houserule (some of them we are using with friends for years) like using bonus action to drink a potion ^^
Baldur’s Gate 3’s gameplay is based off of Divinity Original Sin 2’s combat which is more of a tactical RPG where each character has to wait a turn in order to strike an enemy. I wouldn’t be surprised if Larian Studios gave Neverwinter Nights 3, Icewind Dale 3, Waterdeep, Chronicles of Mystara or even a Dragonlance CRPG the same treatment they gave to Baldur’s Gate 3.
The best part is that NWNs was an amazing adaption into a video game (though I never understood why strength mattered for rangers, and I never will). It pretty much followed the rules of that edition, but yet seemed very flavored. That's honestly because 5e got rid of flavored gameplay. It's very "I attack and end turn," and that's it. Older editions had less limits, but also more challenging monsters because of the less limits. Then again, they did come with a lot more unnecessary math, but it wouldn't be difficult to mix flavor and 5e's simplified math
None of what you said is true. The gameplay of BG3 has very little to do with DOS2.
The main thing that Larian carried over is the ability to create surfaces, but that's kinda in 5e too anyway.
@@Ezullof To be honest, I didn't play Divinity Original Sin 2. I only played Baldur's Gate 3 on my PS5 is because My Uncle thought it would be a great Christmas Present since it's the best game of 2023. And the more I played Baldur's Gate 3, the more I learned about both the DND franchise and the games Larian Studios. One of their masterpieces is Divinity Original Sin 2, which won a lot of awards in 2017. Plus both games had a similar Origin companion concept in where you play as one of your companions you can romance if you chose a customizable character. And both games allowed you to do what ever you want.
@@nyxnightmare3542 You must not have tried to fire a proper war bow IRL. It takes a lot of muscle.
@@janisir4529 I own a longbow, actually, and they're not that difficult to pull. The trick is technique and slowness, not muscle. Even with big arms, if you pull too quick you can wreck that arm pretty easily (I have done that many times, the slower the pull the better, which is why bows obviously died out when muskets became a thing). My preference is the composite bow, for flexibility, but a longbow is still nice and doesn't require muscle, though like in all things muscle is still useful no matter what you're doing
Maybe we should make it D&D 5.5 edition
It's like Elden Ring only players trying DS1
That last part about needing friends to play dnd with. My advice is you go and find out if and where people play DnD in your area, there has to be a game store somewhere, and then you go there and make friends to play with. Go to where the DnD is and the friends you might make along the way.
My group plays with a potions takes an action, and personally I don’t mind it. It is just weird when I go to conventions and I am able to a use a potion as a bonus action.
Though it honestly just makes sense for it to be a bonus action when you consider how little effort drinking the potion should theoretically be (unless the cork is really just that hard to pull out.)
@@homerman76 You have to get the potion from your backpack or belt then go and open then drink the potion all in 6 secs
@@alexgallion8112the amount of things that a player can do within the game's "6 seconds" already tosses realism out the window. A BA for a potion is not really the immersion breaker here.
@@nojusticenetwork9309true, honestly I've always played potions as a bonus action on yourself but full action to use one on someone else.
Wait what was the dad joke?
guess you wern't Dad enough to get it
Go ask your dad after he gets back from buying that pack of cigarettes he left to go get 20 years ago.
So, after so long I finally found a grotto play with for the first time. After BG3 I got the D&as players guide. Meeting up with them this weekend. I’m excited
Had a DM a few years prior that wanted to make potions a bonus action thing but also didn't like that they gave healing based off dice so he had his homebrew rule where you can drink healing potions normally as a bonus action and roll the healing die and if you decide to take a full action to drink the potion instead you get the max healing the potion can offer , maybe it's because our party didn't abuse it but for us it worked out pretty well.
So baldurs gate 3 is better, got it
No, one is a video game and one isn't. A video game has to add or remove mechanics, to keep the combat and gameplay engaging. Playing the ttrpg has its own benefits the video game doesn't, I recommend playing the tabletop. Baldur's gate has been fun, but as someone who played the tabletop first, it is actually more limiting in my opinion because of its mechanics.
@@GhostFu i recommend playing Role Master instead of Dungeons and dragons.
@@skaven969 why? You're not one of those who thinks complexity equals fun right? Welp, NVM then.
@@GhostFu sounds like you’ve never played role master.
I've heard good things about D&D, but the more I learn about it, the more its gameplay sounds like homework
Really that's mostly if you're the DM as there is a lot of prep work to be done for sessions but for players most of that type of work is just at character creation after that it's mostly just tracking your resources and making sure you know what your abilities do like with almost any other RPG. My suggestion is to try Baldurs Gate 3 and see if you like its basic mechanics and if you do you'll likely enjoy Dnd or any other ttrpg.
Yeah because you did zero homework in BG3... no reading tool tips or reloading ever... you are a VERY special person.
@@thomgizziz you didn't need to be a dick about it.
You can actually cast multiple Spells per turn
IF you cast a spell with your Bonus Action, You are limited to casting only Cantrips for your Action
IF you Action Surge you get 2 Actions, meaning the Bonus Action isn't a spell meaning we didn't break the rule in RAW
I've just realised the boulders gate rules are very similar to 4th edition rules in fact they're more like fourth edition than they are fifth 😅 and to think everyone used to complain about forth endlessly 🤣🤣🤣
So I'm a new player to dnd and bg3, I dislike this video very much, it's only a small amount of differences such as Action/Bonus Action and I wouldn't say its confusing at ALL. bg3 is a very good game at learning moves/spells/lore
ngl baldurs rules are better
Baldur’s Gate 3 could, and should, become a new DnD rule set tbh
I would argue that the spell one is a reaction and the rule say you can'r cast as a bonus action and an action, but you certainly can cast twice as an action, as a bonus action or action/bonus +reaction
Hence the reason why if I DM a D&D 5E Campaign I'm putting my foot down and saying this isn't BG3 don't play your character like it's in BG3.
I let my players drink health potions as a bonus action. I think of it as perks in Zombies from CoD where you take a swig of it and toss, but they can use their action to drink the full thing and receive the full HP of the potion. To me, it adds a lot of strategy to where the player can decide if that’s how they would like to spend their action. My players love it
I think BG3, while not accurate to 5e, is a great place for people to get interested in D&D. It goes over a lot of the concepts with changes to fit a video game style and pick up the speed of fights. Personally, I'm going to use some of the things BG3 does simply because it makes it more interesting for the players during a fight compared to,as you said, bonk and stop.
While Solasta: Crown of the Magister hasn't as much interesting characters, variations in quest, and sidequests as BG3, it's battles are so good. I love how they approached legendary actions, also reactions are so good, and you can really fly and walk on walls! It makes combat so cool! I just remebered how fun it was when my monk fought a vampire in the air at the center of a massive hall, while the other party encountered enemies on the floor.
Solasta needs to get more love! While not as expansive as BG3, it sure does a lot of 5e mechanics better than bg3, as well as using some turn-based tactical QOL features, like auto selecting the best character for skill checks.
@@Alhana_E fully agree, it's so true!
You actually could magic missile and feather fall in the same turn. It’s a convoluted rule, but the leveled spell per turn restriction only comes into play when done so with a bonus action.
i think the most confusing rule change in bg3 to me still has to be the assassination subclass 3rd level feat interaction with opening combat out of stealth.
combat doesn't start until after you've attacked, which means surprise only gets applied after you've attacked, which does mean you get to attack twice, but it also means your assassination auto crit doesn't happen until your second attack, which is extremely weird.
You can magic missile and jump off a cliff using ur reaction to cast featherfall. The rule about multiple leveled spells per turn only applies if one is a bonus action.
This is why I love my DM because for one he makes up his own rules and doesn’t follow the original DND rules he only uses it for guidelines, why he does this because he knows he has new players to DND so he adjusts the rules so it can be easier to follow but at the same time have more of the “Real experience” of DND
This is too true. I started playing D&D a year ago then BG3 came out and I learned a lot... and then this. Damn near ALL OF THIS. The upside though the DM was just as invested in to BG3 as me and was more open to things just for flavor or rule of cool, that and because somethings in BG3 legitimately made sense to do in D&D.
I know this is a skit and you probably already know the real rule, however if you use a bonus action yes you can't cast another spell that turn other than a cantrip, however you can use action surge to cast two spells that cost an action
BG3 showed me the power of shove, now every fighter and paladin I play acts like a school bully by hitting things and then shoving them away to allow my sorcerer to get distance.
The only baldurs gate variant rule I really would have a problem with at my table is the multiple leveled spells in 1 action rule. I don't really see the other stuff. Having a big negative impact. especially if they're rules. That's the n p c's will get as well.
Having potions be drinkable on a Bonus Action would definitely improve the game as far as NON-healing potions. All of a sudden, that Potion of Stoneskin or whatever is going to look a lot more desirable if you're not effectively giving up 25-33% of your turns in combat just to drink it. The problem is when you get into the actual healing potions.
Having very swing-y combat where enemies dish out lots of damage and you can heal it right back up is exciting in a video game, but in the table-top version turns combat into a major slog. This was something learned for 4th Edition, where you could easily heal 25-50% of someone's health in a single action. It was exciting for the first turn or two, but then you realize that a single combat ended up being 1.5 hours long. Correction, just about *every* combat ended up being 1 to 2 hours long. Not being able to easily heal in combat was not an omission by the 5E designers, but a reaction to 4E's reputation of combat taking forever. Same reason why very few monsters regenerate or heal.