Problematic Hadith about Apostasy | Part 13 | Dr. Shabir Ally
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2023
- In part 13 of our #hadith series, we look at several problematic hadith on the subject of apostasy: Can someone leave the Islamic faith if they choose? How should #Muslims interpret and evaluate the hadiths that prescribe death to the apostate in light of statements provided in the #Quran? These questions illuminate the difficulty of reconciling the hadith with the primacy of the Quran. The Quran in 2:256 declares, “There is no compulsion in religion. True guidance has become distinct from error.” Dr. Shabir Ally shows why several hadiths were most likely invented many years after the Quran was revealed, reflecting the political beliefs of some in the later generations, raising problems for those who want to leave the #faith and bringing fear to those who are considering joining the faith. These problems can be solved by looking closely at the best way to view the hadith in comparison with the Quran.
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As an Irishman who was brought up Catholic but is now agnostic, i realy enjoyed your talk, Dr.Shabir.
As an Imam i have profound respect for your views. Wishing you peace and joy.
Salam, the inner peace, be with you, fellow man.
@@adnanbosnian5051but doesnt allah say he doesnt love the unbelievers and to fight them? Why wish peace on them?
@@timothyodeyale6565no you are mistaken. If you are referring to verses in the quran which orders muslims to fight against the unbeliebers, then you have not understood it. The unbelievers is a title and not a description. Since it is not used descriptively, atheistst cannot fall under the category of unbelievers by the mere act of not believing. The title “unbelievers” is just the title given to THE disbelieving people of mecca at the time of our Prophet muhammad peace be upon him. Muslims where commanded to fight them after this specific group of unbelievers tried to commit a genocide on the muslims, as the muslim believe in one god interfered with the unbelievers struggle for wealth. There where multiple instances where the muslims where persecuted at the time of our prophet because of there faith in one god. But at first, allah ordered patience and a willingness to make peace and peace treaties. At some point, this specific group of disbelievers broke their treaty by attacking the muslims again. At this instance allah ordered muslims to fight for themselves, their families and their faith. As you can see, there is no way that one could understand this verse with any other interpretation than one of a defensive warfare. If you think that defensive warfare is also wrong, then thats your own believe. But we believe defensive warfare is a just act.
Anyways, the answer is no. We are not ordered to fight non muslims. If this were the case, then no unbeliever would be left on this world :)
We should be Muslim seekers and not Blind believers of any sect or Islam. A knowledgeable and Muslim seeker seeks knowledge and uses critical thinking and rationalism to understand all matters.
A knowledgeable Muslim is an x Muslim.
Don't use criticism with allah or else 🙏
@@al-hassan9200 lol or else what? Ur god has no power.
I also want to know. Or else what? @@al-hassan9200
There is no might nor power except with God@@QueenQaffir
You make our religion sound like what it actually is: PEACEFUL
May Allah grant you the best in this world and beyond. Ameen.
Sabir makes religion peacefull,he is correcting quoran,wich is full of violence and bad practices,like child marrage,killing apostates,using your wife as a thilt and many more
The Hadith is authentic. Uthmna from one message foundation explained itself only for those who being exposing their new belief in public. Quran 2:256 is talking about you can’t force anyone to be Muslim.
In Nigeria, Muslims have kidnapped more than 3,000 pupils and killed about 500,000
@@Truth_Seeker1 Hadiths are authentic? They’re authentically hearsay, yes. How do u explain bukhari appearing in his own chain of narrations lol? And when u say uthman u mean ibn fibbin footnote. Still waiting to see his police report and “documentary” that he’ll NEVER make 🥸
Why would the truth need the threat of death to keep you believing??
please prove christianity or apostate from christianity
@@jj-yi1ne Why the truth need the threat of death ❓
Just cause 😂
It wouldnt. These people who practice killing apostates, practice Judaism. They are Yahudi monafegeen.
We know smoking causes cancer and kills why do people still smoke?
No hadith can go against the authority of the Quran. Very well explained.
you didn't read the quran, that is the problem....
@@kingpeer14 nah, you are the problem
@@adnanbosnian5051 That i expose you?
@@kingpeer14 lol how did you expose anything? you must be brain dead
@@kingpeer14 na the fact that ur a jahil the quran is more authentic than a hadith and if u deny akhi i guess u trust the mind of humands more than the words of allah
Great work Dr. Shabir and Dr. Saffiyah
Thank you Dr. Shabir for this explanation. It is so rare to find a Muslim scholar with the courage to speak the obvious about these Hadith corruptions which denigrate the prophet Mohammad and Islam. The Quran is clear and unambiguous that there is no compulsion in religion. One has to be completely blind to miss this. The problem with most hadith followers is that they almost always take the Hadith over the Quran. They fail to use their reason and think, which is the exact mentality the Quran repeatedly warns against. Blindly following traditions without thinking. Killing another human being is a major sin. Do these people think that a judgement/law as important as life or death would be absent from the Quran?
the hadith may have been out of context as well
By Hadith followers you actually mean Muslims. There's no Islam for anyone who doesn't follow Hadiths. Minus Hadith Islam is an abstract that can be anything to anyone. Everything in Islam becomes subjective and depends on the whims of the beholder.
Deviants who bash Hadith only do it cause they're invested in a value system outside of Islam, liberalism in these days Greek philosophy in the case of earliest sects. They pick and choose from Islam what's deemed acceptable by their overlords whom they're so desperate to appease and emulate. It's no coincidence that Qur'an only cults originated in the last century under colonialism.
Islam is whatever prophet Muhammad pbuh taught us. Not what Plato, western media or the UN Charter preach. Apostasy was taught by prophet Muhammad pbuh who was sent to us by Allah all mighty. Nothing in the Qur'an contradicts this. No compulsion means that forced conversion of non-Muslims to Islam is completely unlawful. A Muslim changing their religion is free to do so but there's a penality of death. They cannot be forced to re-enter Islam only counciled and given a chance to repent. Once three days are up should they not repent they're punished with death. A murderer is punished by death according to the Qur'an and you don't object to this. Yet a greater crime than bloodshed is committed against Allah SWT and you think that capital punishment is too harsh?
@@moeezsyed3004You're describing an irrational actor. Someone who decides to doom their selves to eternal hellfire because they don't understand the wisdom of punishment for certain crimes isn't a rational person.
Also it's ironic that you believe that an eternal punishment for disbelief is fair but capital punishment for apostasy to be unfair.
@Itsfairy308 Islam = Sunnah, Sunnah = Islam. No one's ever made the claim that every Hadith in existence is authentic. The only people who wholesale reject Hadith are non-Muslims. You cannot hold the position that the Qur'an is the ONLY revelation from Allah to Muhammad peace be upon him and still claim to be a Muslim.
@@mohamedsheikhmohamed5411 terro, ris, t
Hello, I am a christian. I just wanted to say i find your thoughts and conversations very inspiring and it helps me to change my view about Islam. Peace be upon you ❤
Christians usually don't say peace be upon you 😂😂😂
Lol u don’t have to copy their sayings. God bless is sufficient.
Also Shabir Ally is considered a minority view and more of a western Muslim than an eastern Muslim or traditional Muslim.
So me wishing peace onto someone is not Christian?.@@Crazy88277
I do not follow your words nor customs. You will not tell me how to speak. @@Crazy88277
It was put in Hadith because of politics.
Good work Drs!
Wow this was enlightening. Makes so much sense. Thanks to both of you for sharing.
Dr. Shubir is a very serious intellectual for giving this insight into this troubling subject and tackling this matter with such genuine scepticism and to be this open and frank with his followers - that he knows full well that they will slam him with all sorts of accusations -
Salute to him for this remarkable take 🙏
THIS MAN GIVES ME HOPE ❤
Excellent program
Jazakhallah brother and sister for the clarification. This is the explanation that put my heart to ease for what I know this religion to be.
But our preachers don’t want to change their attitude even it’s so clear in the Quran. They don’t have any eagerness to reason these issues. Sometimes they even place Hadith over the Quran which is so dangerous and troubling.
Hadith over Quran or what the world say over Islam.
@@user-tk5bz3jv7sso you believe that muslims should just kill apostates? Ppl like u should be jailed for your lunatic views before you harm others.
"we respect them but ...", ustadzun I learned from use the same format when they disagree with a scholar or other ustadz. " ... but I am more incline toward ... for the reason of ... and referring to the kitaab of .... ".
Differences presented that way stimulated healthy conversation and thinking. Thank you Dr. Shabir... 🙏
I appreciate your comments Dr.
Thank you
dr. whahahhahahahahaha
There is a straightforward reconciliation that requires no abandonment of wuthentic ahadith.
In mecca the Messenger (saw) was told by Allah he was not musaytir, but just a warner, as he had no authority or power, which makes sensr. His call was simply discursive.
In medinah however, he had power and authority, so had to preserve the community (ummah) and call other nations to Islam via dawah and jihad. Defeated nations, whilst incorporated into his polity, could not be coerced to individually believe Islam but the system of Islam and its laws regulated the collective affairs of the polity which they had to respect - hence the verse laa ikraha makes sense in this context in which it was revealed.
Finally, the Islamic polity is always constructed as a constellation of faith based communities, faith being the decisive binding force. If people were allowed to undermine it, they risked undermining the state, a treacherous act so capital punishment would be applied (apostasy). We should remember the hadiths of capital punishment had a context of medinan rule, not mecca, and most certainly were not intended for a context where Islam was reduced to a personal faith in secular societies practiced by individuals as in our contempirary West which is more akin to the Messenger's meccan period.
In sum, both ahadith and verses are applicable, based on circumstances they were intended for.
This is the most clear cut hadith contradiction yet Sunnis dance around it SubhanAllah.
The Qur'an is sufficient brothers and sisters:
And in anything over which you disagree - *its ruling is [to be referred] to Allah.* [Say], "That is Allah , my Lord; upon Him I have relied, and to Him I turn back." 42:10
"One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring thee as a witness against these (thy people): and We have sent down to thee the *Book explaining all things* , a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims." 16:89
"O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah *a light and a clear Book* ." 5:15
"Alif, Lam, Ra. These are the verses of the *Book and a clear Qur'an* ." 15:1
"Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath *revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained* ? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers." 6:114
" *A Book whose verses have been detailed* , an Arabic Qur'an for a people who know," 41:3
" *Thus do We explain the signs in detail* ; and perchance they may turn (unto Us)." 7:174
"And when We read it, follow thou the reading;" 75:18
"Nay more, *it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear)* : 75:19
"For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, *which We explained in detail* ,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe." 7:52
"And they do not come to you with an argument except that *We bring you the truth and the best explanation* ." 25:33
" *Allah has sent down the best hadith* : a consistent Book wherein is reiteration. The skins shiver therefrom of those who fear their Lord; then their skins and their hearts relax at the remembrance of Allah. That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whom He wills. And one whom Allah leaves astray - for him there is no guide." 39:23
"These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. *Then in what hadith after Allah and His verses will they believe?* " 45:6
"Then in what *hadith* after the Qur'an will they believe?" 77:50
So obey Allah, and obey His Messenger: but if ye turn back, *the duty of Our Messenger is but to proclaim (the Message) clearly and openly* . 64:12
"Say, "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger; but if you turn away - then upon him is only that [duty] with which he has been charged, and upon you is that with which you have been charged. And if you obey him, you will be [rightly] guided. *And there is not upon the Messenger except the [responsibility for] clear notification* ." 24:54
*The most merciful* 55:1
"It is *He* Who has taught the Qur'an." 55:2
" *The guiding of them is not thy duty* (O Muhammad), but Allah guideth whom He will. And whatsoever good thing ye spend, it is for yourselves, when ye spend not save in search of Allah's Countenance; and whatsoever good thing ye spend, it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged." 2:272
"And We have certainly diversified in this Qur'an for the people from *every [kind of] example* ; *but man has ever been, most of anything, [prone to] dispute.* " 18:54
"Say, " Allah is most knowing of how long they remained. He has [knowledge of] the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. How Seeing is He and how Hearing! They have not besides Him any protector, and *He shares not His legislation with anyone.* "" 18:26
“You worship not besides Him except [mere] names you have named them, you and your fathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority. *Legislation is not but for Allah.* He has commanded that you worship not except Him. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.” 18:40
Dr Ally is Ahlil Kitab and Sunna
The problem is that the Quran does not have specifics for how to enact certain parts of the religion that is collectively known as Islam. Overreliance on Hadith is no better than shunning it entirely.
@@seletarroots3258 "One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring thee as a witness against these (thy people): and We have sent down to thee the *Book explaining all things* , a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims." 16:89
"We have made the Night and the Day as two (of Our) Signs: the Sign of the Night have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the years: *all things have We explained in detail.* " 17:12
"O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah *a light and a clear Book* ." 5:15
"Alif, Lam, Ra. These are the verses of the *Book and a clear Qur'an* ." 15:1
"Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath *revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained* ? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers." 6:114
" *A Book whose verses have been detailed* , an Arabic Qur'an for a people who know," 41:3
" *Thus do We explain the signs in detail* ; and perchance they may turn (unto Us)." 7:174
"And when We read it, follow thou the reading;" 75:18
"Nay more, *it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear)* : 75:19
"For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, *which We explained in detail* ,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe." 7:52
"And they do not come to you with an argument except that *We bring you the truth and the best explanation* ." 25:33
@@seletarroots3258what kind of specific are you talking about?
Great job brother
Hats off sir. Finally a real muslim who is bringing better intellect. i would like to hear you more. May be Ghamidi sahab and you are more enlightened
Only an ignorant person can believe shabir is a scholar. The man believes that the Qur'an isn't perfectly preserved, Adam AS wasn't the first man, and qadar isn't known to Allah SWT.
@@mohamedsheikhmohamed5411
We are Muslim seekers and not Blind believers of any sect or Islam. A knowledgeable and Muslim seeker seeks knowledge and uses critical thinking and rationalism.
@@mohamedsheikhmohamed5411
He is atleast a lot more knowledgable than you. So keep your ego to yourself.
@@comparativereligiondailynews if you are claiming that rational thinking leads to denying the above-mentioned facts then it's also rational thinking to say Islam is a lie and Prophet Muhammad pbuh was a false prophet.
You simply can't hold the position that Islam is both false and true
The Hadith is authentic. Uthman from one message foundation explained its only applies for those who being to spread their new belief in public. Quran 2:256 is talking about you can’t force anyone to be Muslim.
More Muslims should follow and learn from imams like this. So many ignorant people in the Muslim world being fed pure filth and hate in the name of Islam. Thanks for sharing this.
Great message. Shabir Ally is in my top five Islamic scholars. Always rational and humane. He and Dr Safiyyah embody the much spoken of but little practised ideal of the _ummatan wasatan._ Contemporary Muslim giants both.
I know that shabir tries to market himself as a middle solution. That's why he concedes to Non-Muslims on core beliefs of Islam e.g. Adam AS being the first man, Prophet Muhammad's words/actions being infallible, Islam is the only path to Jannah, the Qur'an being perfectly preserved...etc
What might seem to some as a reasonable concession is actually complete capitulation. Islam is either the truth or it isn't. If there's any errors or doubts in Islam then how's it different from any other religion in the world?
Ummatan wasataa doesn't mean that we give up our beliefs to appease non believers.
If someone leaves islam there is no permission or allowance to kill a person unless if a person didn’t commit anything against islam if.If someone leaves islam and want to change there religion they are free to go on there own way there is no obligations to kill an inoccent person even if they apostate and if they didn’t anything Against islam
They are only allowed to be killed if they try to kill you first. Allauh says in the Goraun "whoever wants to believe, let him believe, and whoever wants to disbelieve, let him disbelieve". The Goraun is clear.
@@adnanbosnian5051 i know it very well but some people are miss interpetering it
Great!
Thank you dr shabir and dr safiyah, i am really enjoying and learning from this series on the problematic ahadith, dont agree with you ever time but none the less do value your perspective. No doubt you will get push back, but maybe we should be brave enough to look at the ahadith literature again, are we really bound by our scholars and ahadith compilers of old, as amazing and pious as they were they none the less they were humans like us. Why did our prophet or the khilafe rashidun not institutionalise the collection and preservation of ahadith literature as they did with the quran, this is such a glaring omission and speaks volumes. At the end of the day we are left with the quran and our prophets pbuh sunnah, the sunnah overlaps some hadith sayings but is not the ahadith as some muslims believe
This series isn't about problematic Hadith. It's about Shabir's problems with Islam. The only purpose behind discrediting Hadith is to be able to be free to reinterpret and reinvent Islam.
It's sad that some people think that the solution to humanity's problems is just liberalism and materialism with an Islamic facade. It's just putting a kuffi and a khamis on western ideologies.
Islam means submission. Ally teaches the opposite of that. He's teaching people how to rebel against the words of Allah SWT and his messenger pbuh
Absolutely great video. These are very difficult topics. Allah swt reward you
The Hadith is authentic. Uthmna from one message foundation explained itself only for those who being exposing their new belief in public. Quran 2:256 is talking about you can’t force anyone to be Muslim.
@@Truth_Seeker1 but the quran just says there is no compulsion in relgion no mention of ppl coming into or leaving islam . if there is pls correct me and im speaking only from the quran
@@mercutio335 Muslims rely on Hadith as much as Qur'an. Prophet Muhammad pbuh was commanded by Allah SWT to explain Islam. The Hadiths are from Allah SWT. The Qur'an directs us follow and obey Muhammad pbuh.
@@mohamedsheikhmohamed5411the only primary source is the Quran. Everything else is secondary…. Hopefully, you know that is obvious.
@@delaware12pwner The ONLY source of revelation in Islam is the Messenger of Allah. Whether it's Qur'an or Hadith we trust that he's been inspired by Allah SWT. I hope that clears up your confusion.
جزاک الله داکتر شبیر علی !
A lot of the ridicule and insults directed at the prophet saw today is due to the many hadiths that portray him and Islam as being violent…
yes there are some very confusing and contradictory hadith, unlike the quran were we know why and when certain verses were sent thus increasing our understanding, in many of the hadith we do not have such context. This can give us a wrong understanding usually making islam seem intolerant, close minded and violent. The quran describes itself and our prophet as a warner and as a mercy to mankind, to invite mankind with gentle argument, as with moses and pharoah. Some of the hadith take us away from this, where our ulema are only too happy to condemn us to hell on the basis of some hadith they have learnt.
It is not just the Hadith. There are contradictory verses in the Quran. Please see my earlier comment in this video. These two people have ignored other verses (because they explicitly don’t let the Quran speak).
Muslim scholars who put the hadith by Ibn Abbas "whoever changes his دين ( _deen_ is a holistic way of life, not merely a faith), kill him," they put it in the chapter 'The prohibition of bloodshed.'
Muslim scholars explained again and again that this is comparable to the modern crime of treason and only the ruler could order that punishment.
I think Dr. Shabir should bring forward and analyze the discussion of hadiths more, instead of jumping to conclusion "the narrators might make some mistakes." It would be a fair way of discussing hadiths since so many scholars spend their lifetime to develop this scholarly field and their work is worth the time to be analyzed.
Your masters in Saudi Kingdom and Iran are Yahudi monafegeen. You are a kafer.
In saudie or Iran anyone who leaves even they don’t do these things or killed hence why Hadith is dangerous and it’s the reason for problems for Muslims today
I am told that the Apostate is only targeted for Death if the Apostate waged a war of violence on the Muslims, BUT, this action applied to the specific time and place of the Salaf as many became enemies of Rasoolullah SAW and the Sahaba which were once their friends...
The above is plausible and makes the most sense imo.
Many hadith are misinterpreted, misunderstood, and abused like the blasphemy laws in Pakistan used to discriminate against a minority non Muslim community.
there is no killing of apostates unless they try to kill us. That is Eslaum.
But Iran and saudie don’t see it that way they kill anyone who leaves
Yes it does make most sense. Once the apostate poses a threat to the nations security, then the law is carried out to protect the nation. People can beleive what they want inwardly, if they aren’t harming anyone. The prophet didn’t target hypocrites and kill them. We can learn so much from the actions rather than taking a statement, without any consideration of context and actions of the prophet Muhammad saw. So once other people are harmed is when the line is drawn.
This is a very serious matter. There is no room for the so-called scholars fancies and opinions.
What do you mean exactly?
Do you want that apostates should be killed
@@zico352 the taking of a human life is a serious matter. Those scholars better be very sure that those hadiths that call for killing apostates were actually said by the prophet. Because if the prophet never really said that, they are going to be in serious trouble for misleading people. Also the hadith about killing apostates, contradicts the Quran in 2:256.
256. There shall be no compulsion in religion; the right way has become distinct from the wrong way. Whoever renounces evil and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handle; which does not break. God is Hearing and Knowing.
@@hassanabdur-rahman1559I don't understand how people can take hadiths as equal value as the Quran. If it contradicts the Quran, even in the slightest, then you denounce it. Easily. Doesn't matter if the prophet said it. Because it could have been his own opinion and not the word of God
@@riseofpotatonation yes but the problem is that this hadith is in Bukhari which they call it sahih.
Alhamdulillah for Dr. Shabir 🙏
Ibn 'Abbas (RAA) narrated that The Messenger of Allah said, “He who changes his religion (i.e. apostates) kill him.” Related by Al-Bukhari.
Nothing in the Qur'an is against this. It's been practiced continuously since the start of Islam. Why is it now questionable?
It's just a matter of making Islam compatible with the current western morals. If Islam is going to be shaped like that then it has no value to add to anyone's life.
@@mohamedsheikhmohamed5411 Did you watch the video? Sounds like you didn't.
@@mohamedsheikhmohamed5411
In other words Islam isn’t compatible at all anywhere in the world except for in Muslim majority countries, therefore other countries whether they be secular or post Christian countries or Hindu or Buddhist countries or anything else, they should not tolerate Muslims in their midsts nor tolerate any Muslim trying to preach their religion and trying to convert people.
Obviously in this case when you wish to live in a world of empires and dynasties , of rulers and slaves, of absolute power as opposed to the rule of law and of cruelty, tyranny, force and compulsion as opposed to freedom of expression, speech and religion then the only place for Islam is Muslim majority countries where they (Muslims) can do whatever they want to do to their hearts content, I think that’s fair , and I’m saying this as a Muslim, no wonder Muslim countries and Muslims are absolutely full of hate to tge extent of killing each other, so no we Muslims are NOT compatible in the West or in any other place in the world except for our own countries.
@@user-oy4zw8ye7g you don’t need to watch the video to kno what the Dr is implying, tho I watched it. But Islam should not be watered Down to western ideology. And calling every hadith they doesn’t fit this ideology to be a weak or fabricated. We don’t need sheikhs who water down our beautiful religion
@@mohamedadan5842 there is nothing beautiful about killing someone who changes their mind. It is barbaric. And completely against 2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood".
It is not only one Quranic verse but more vi than 50 ayats that confirm the freedom of religion,but of course Sunnis and Shia muslims do not follow the Quran.They follow their hafiths,each their special collection.They abandoned Quran 13 centuries ago,and that is the tragedy of the ummah.
you can follow the quran. we dont care about the quran. you can follow the quran you cant hold authority over us. we follow our madhab
Mashallah finally some true common sense & what a good Muslim who is not scared to speak truth Mashallah. A lot of Muslims need to start thinking with some common sense and not just follow blindly and not question Subhanaallah
Great Explanation Dr. Really the Quraan is clear with regard to acceptance/leaving the religion.
Good knowledge mashallah
Finally, a scholar with a clear mind.
When we read something we need context, history etc
Thank u
The problem is the quran says its the final book. And yet we get several other books with all kinds of rules which are not in the quran. This is problematic
I’ve just very recently clocked onto this
@@Lordbear33 and what did you find?
@@sjaakafhaak5441 I’m in agreeance, it’s problematic
@@Lordbear33 well this issue with hadiths was where the rabbit hole started for me. Since then i found a lot more problematic issues.
1) There is the possibility that Muhammad initially preached tolerance because he was idealistic. It was only later on that he realised that compulsion was the only way forward and so he said 'whoever changes his religion kill him'. After all we know Muhammad didn't allow his followers to fight in the meccan period (whether this was due to their small numbers or his idealism is another debate) but that changed when he got to Medinah and by the end of his life his sights were set on the lands of the Byzantines. So Muhammad could have said both 'There is no compulsion in religion' and 'Whoever changes his religion kill him' but that's because with time his views changed. Initially he was enthusiastic, optimistic, naive and idealistic but later on he realised he had to be pragmatic and that the only way to spread islam was by using force. And so he retracted his initial statement and advise his followers to do the exact opposite (ie kill apostates).
2) Assuming Muhammad was a real prophet and that the hadith are not reliable, one wonders why Allah sat back and did nothing while the scholars of Islam mistakenly attributed the statement 'Whoever changes his religion kill him' to his beloved messenger and perpetuated it for centuries. Furthermore if the scholars of islam can be this inept and Allah can be this idle then perhaps many other things we believe about islam are totally incorrect too.
I believe that the excuses that the likes of Shabir Ally make only lead to further questions. The simplest explanation is that Muhammad was just a man who said contradictory things.
Hope people see this after viewing the PBD podcast.
masallah thank you brother
Was it not so also that the Hadith about if you hear somebody change their religion, kill them was from a time when Medina was under siege and where there was suspicion that Mohammeds enemies were pretending to join the Muslims only to get access to the city and it´s defences and then leave to report back to the besiegers? I mean to say that context matters and to take something like that out of context and extrapolate it to be applicable for all time and all places seems, besides contradicting the clear statements Dr Ally mentions from the Quran, dishonest and tyrannical. It´s as if Tyranny itself has been allowed to read through all the Islamic material just to find it´s own justification.
But shariah is implementing that hadith right?
The Hadith is authentic. Uthmna from one message foundation explained itself only for those who being exposing their new belief in public. Quran 2:256 is talking about you can’t force anyone to be Muslim.
It doesn't matter. Quran doesn't talk about killing people who become apostates. Prophet Muhammad pbuh never killed a single apostate not related to a betrayal related matter
Truth seeker,
Where does ot say in the Koran. that it is referring to forcing
someone to become a Muslim? It doesn't. It simply
says "" Let there be no compulsion in religion"".
@@riseofpotatonationtrue there's people at that time become apostate and prophet doesn't kill him
I just saw a video of him saying that we shouldn't cut the hand of the person who steal
هدانا الله و اياه
and that is normal, what is your point? Cittingof hands is not good, wel thank you for this inside....we learned a lot today....
@@kingpeer14 My point is we MUST cut the hand of the person who steals (there is a process to it) and never use our minds and Western philosophical arguments when it comes to religion, we should only follow the Quran, the Sunnah, and the understanding of the SALAF (pious previous generations of scholars)
I hope by now you learned more
Go to Afghanistan and cut peoples hands there.@@houaribenguesmiachadly6504
@@houaribenguesmiachadly6504historical context matters
Very interesting, I’m an atheist but I come from a Christian background. I like learning about different religions though. One thing interesting to me in this conversation is when he said if there is a contradiction between the Quran and a Hadith some people try to shave off at both ends. But I would think if you seriously think that the Quran is the direct words of God then if there is a contradiction then the Quran would win out every time. Even if hypothetically a Hadith is authentic and Muhammad said something off hand that disagrees with what God says in the Quran, then if you really believe this god exists then you go with what it says since the god is greater than any prophet…I don’t believe in any god but I do like to look at religions from within their own internal logic. To me it seems that if you are Muslim and you try to put a Hadith on equal footing with the Quran to the point where you are lessening what the Quran says to accommodate a Hadith, from the internal logic of Islam this seems like it would be idolatry or heretical or something. Am I off about this?
The issue of debate comes about because the quran says, "those who have obeyed the messenger have obeyed allah" and in another part it says somthing along the lines of: they will never be true believers until the accept your judgement on all things without any reproach
The Quran says no man is God, so therefore only God can take a life and make a life 🙏🏻
and that makes it true?
What is your proof that those two hadiths are not authentic, or that there were adjustments made to them by the narrators???
No, Dr. Shabir, in Islamic counties contrary to what you said, like in the Islamic Republic of Iran, Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan, In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, and perhaps other countries; apostasy is a crime worthy of death.
No matter how much you defend evil is out and everyone knows it. 🤮🤮🤮
Just make sure any potential Muslim convert knows beforehand there is no way out alive.
Enlightenment thinkers
Fideen means in decision/judgement (not religions). Mostly Religions means organizations.
Arabic word as deen that meant decision/judgement totally.
Surah 1:V4 Maliki yamiddeen/ judgement day
Surah 109:V6 lakum deenakum waliyadeen/ for you is your decision and for me is my decision..
Since Urdu and Persian translators were wrong, and people are going on misunderstanding with that word. How much big they are doctor or Mufti. If they dont say right and they are totally wrong.
So there is no compulsion in decisions and judgements? Are you suggesting the verse invalidates the courts and other societal instutions of authority?
Once again Dear Dr's, a brilliant appraisal.
Thanks for enlightening those who wish to be enlightened!
Ultimately it is Allah who gives people HIDAYAH!
The hadith gave changed DEEN ISLAM INTO MAZHAB ISLAM!!
Allah azzawajjal never calls Islam as mazhab but ALWAYS as DEEN.
La iqra fa-Deen
There is no compulsion in Deen hence there is no punishment for apostasy.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Isn’t the Glorious Qur’an enough guidance from Allah for the Muslim ummah? The Hadith has caused so much problems in the world. Even though it was not revealed by Allah, it is often the centre of instruction in the Muslim community.
The question is was it really practiced in past Khilafah states????
One thing also should be considered that the prophet phub himself never gave death penalty for apostasy. This law came into effect much later after his death
was thzhe hadith from Sahid bukhari
Strange how the daughter adresses her father
It’s an interview lol so u have to be professional
Honestly I can't understand why this man is still a Muslim, unless he enjoys to trying to make sense out of something that doesn't. But how long can one do it? How long does it take to see ?
Doesnt the Prophet say there is no force allowed in believe.?
Islam become a new Islam start when Moslem treat the sahih hadits as an absolute sahih. The implication is they must interpret Qur'an to fit to those hadits which is against prophet direction.
If this religion was supposed to be CLEAR, why is there so much discrepancy? Did not god try to protect his precious Message?
no verse in the Qur'an prescribes capital punishment for the charge of apostasy. Follow the Quran and Gods word NEVER!!!!! kill anyone who leaves the faith better still pray fpr them to return and ask for their forgiveness.
Quran say do mutah Hadith says don't do mutah
So which one to follow
😂😂
I WAS TODAY YEARS OLD WHEN I FOUND OUT SHES HIS DAUGHTER WHAT
God Bless You Dr shabbir, I believe our Christians and jews brothers are also Muslim, what made problematic is wrong interpretation of Religion by Sahaba, 7th century biases diluted the understanding of Faith. while we Abrahamic brothers are not different.😊
"Indeed, those who disbelieve from the People of the Book and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, to stay there forever. They are the worst of ˹all˺ beings." Surah 98:6
I pray Allah SWT reward you for your slander of the Sahaba RA with the lowest level of Jahanam along with your Christian and Jewish brothers.
@@mohamedsheikhmohamed5411It's a beautiful thing that you are NOT Allah.
@@analyticallysound2716you need to also read in the Quran 3:113-115 and 2:62.
113. They are not alike. Among the People of the Book is a community that is upright; they recite the revelations of Allah throughout the night, and they prostrate themselves.
114. They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and are quick to do good deeds. These are among the righteous.
115. Whatever good they do, they will not be denied it. Allah knows the righteous.
62. Those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Christians, and the Sabeans-any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and act righteously-will have their reward with their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
christians believe you are an infidel and you need to accept the trinity
The onl problem with Hadish is if you not accept the words of Authentic hadish then you are not a Muslim , so much controvercy
Are you sure brother what you are talking about? Hadith is the words written by people and narrated from different people but no one is sure that our Prophet peace be upon him exactly said that hadith word by word. But Quran exactly preserved word by word and ayat by ayat , and it is 100% the same as it was recited by our Prophet. That's why you must be careful about making statements about Tawhid Iman . Firstly we must follow Quran and it is much clear about every islamic laws.
I don’t understand why debating between the Hadith and the Quran. All truths go back to the Quran. Allah clarifies this in 16:64. Stop playing with Allah words. Hadith cannot be above the words of Allah. If there is disagreement, drop the Hadith and rely on the Quran. There should not be difference Hadith and Quran. Period
Hadiths are the words of Allah by prophet sallallahu aleyhi wasalam
@@muzammilyasin1779 you lie . Hadith never is not the words of Allah and Mohamed never ordered anyone to kill. stop spreading false statement against Islam. I'm a Muslims scholar and I know that some hadiths are devilish
The "no compulsion in religion" was an early Meccan revelation when muslims were a minority - could it not simply have been later abrogated?
Dr Shabir has a question mark on abrogation. Which I agree with.
@@user-kt3uv7nf7i That has pretty major ramifications, one way or another...
If something is abrogated the Goraun will say so. It never says so.
@@adnanbosnian5051 ...yet that's been a standard element of Islam since the beginning.
@@davidbates3353 Maybe in Islam which is a sect of Judaism as most Muslims anywhere practice Judaism and Freemasonry, and in Saudi Kingdom, Iran, etc who are Zionist secret society.
But in the holy Goraun, Allauh says "whoever wants to believe, let him believe, and whoever wants to disbelieve, let him disbelieve", and that is final, it is never abrogated, that means in Eslaum people do not believe in killing apostates, and Mosslems do not recognize any government who do not rule by the Goraun.
What am learning here is campaigning against Islamic teachings. A real Muslim scholar should learn to understand Quran and understand Hadiths to details so that you can defend your religion intellectually not to confuse majority of the believers who have less knowledge. A real Muslim scholar can not advice a believer to read a book which suggests that homosexuality is somehow accepted rather should discourage believers not to read such books and even burn such books even if they have some good stuff in them. There's no shortcuts in matter religion. We have to try our level best to understand everything in Islam and give the right opinions not confusing believers(Muslims)
The Quran, including in 7:80-81, is pretty clear that homosexuality is not the crime that Prophet Lut PBUH is preaching to others about. The hadith are important to learn about and do enhance the practices and lives of the Ummah. However, hadith that even slightly contradict the Quran need to be intensely interrogated rather than easily embraced.
@@KevinChavis I think you're confusing yourself, can you explain the crime which Quran is talking about if not homosexuality?
@@KevinChavishomosexuality is a sin even though I don’t believe Hadith completely but Quran makes it clear on that but I think rather then killing homosexuals it’s best to get them help
I wonder why this position ever got started? Was it because so many people desired to leave from the beginning that this threat was necessary?
It’s all to do with a narrator by the name of Ikhrima.
You are busy on this site with your propaganda. Go away little creature.
When will you start to wonder who wrote the New testament?
Total rubbish. It’s more to do with the legal schools of fiqh that grew in the first 200 years of Islam. People would forge ahadith to bolster their legal claims. There were only few people who went back to their pagan ways, which is mentioned in the Quran. Here the Muslim community was told to pay compensation to Muslim men who lost their wives to pagans, just as the Muslims had to pay compensation to pagan men whose wives went over to the Muslims.
it's about the ridda wars. Abu bakr is stunned by the massive apostasy from tribes that he emphasize on this so that others would not do the same.
You seem far too moderate for your own good.
Stay safe, Dr.
This dr is customizing d seen
This man is an apologist
What is the most authentic Hadith according to the Quran?
The Qur'an it self, No other man made Hadiths, Peace.✌️
Yes, Sheikh Hamza, the Quran is the AHSANAL HADITH
Dear Sir, Please replace the female host. this is islamic program and you guys doing it in inappropriate manner . male host will be much better, istead female . thank you ! please do not take it personal but its my sugguestion may be i am wrong or whatever
“There’s no compulsion in religion.” That’s why we’re free to drink alcohol and eat during Ramadan in Islam. 😀
That’s false. The no compulsion in religion means you are not forced to become Muslim or to stay Muslim in this world. Read Quran verse 2:256 before coming to false conclusions. Quran forbids alcohol. Fasting and praying is required as its stated out in Quran and sunnah.
What is your opinion about the Ridda wars? (wars against apostasy waged during the time of Abu Bakar) Do you think that the Sahaba and Khulafa e Rashideen acted against the Quran? If the answer to this is yes, then according to you are they any authority on Islam?
If you know anything about the Ridda wars it’s it was first a political war not a religious one. After the death of the prophet ﷺ many Arabs declared themselves prophets and tried to capture Mecca and Medina. It wasn’t just that people were declaring ridda, they were declaring war on the Kalif
@@abdallah6757 it is called Ridda wars which means it was waged to prevent apostasy. The fact remains that the vast majority of Arabs CHOSE not to REMAIN muslim after the Prophet (S) death. The fact remains that the Khulfa e Rasheed did not say ' to you your deen to me my deen' they CHOSE to fight them till they say the Kalima infact to pay zakat.
@@talhasaad6970 it was a political military campaign against people who self declared they were prophets and attempted to take control from the early muslim empire. It’s also wrong to say the vast majorty when it was later Arab tribes that came to Islam. The vast majority of Arabs did not leave Islam. The whole thing lasted a year. Your right though they didn’t say to your own religion, the Arab tribes tried to take over Muslim land and circumvent Muslim authority. It’s not the same as one person or ppl saying they renounce the faith. In fact this history makes sense why there are ridda rules in Islam to prevent things like that. So it wasn’t a religious war in the greater context it was a political war or wars.
the rida wars were full on political and military revolt, it was not simply a tribe saying we are not muslims any more, it was an armed insurrection against the state
@@abdallah6757 so if someone (or a very large group of people, such as many millions) in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan declare that they have exited Islam, but they do not want to wage war or challenge the government, they should be allowed. Right? And you would like to stand for their rights. Correct?
I'm still wondering how anyone can have a failed memory over a simple command as "kill him"
If a hadith says a good thing, they kept that memory alright. If it says a bad thing, their memory failed.
Forgetting that its this same chain of narrators that said Mohammed supposedly said both the good and bad things
You guys have serious issues!
Great point! I am glad someone else is objecting to this shallow analysis. They also ignored the verses in the Quran that contradict the “there is no compulsion…” See my other comment or search for the work “killing, kill, prisoner, etc” in a reputable translation of Quran.
Its not a failed memory. its a lie. The Goraun is clear, there is no killing apostates unless they try to kill us first. Scholars were tortured and killed but some made effort to preserve the truth also and left clues for those who seek the truth.
Apostasy the Stick
72 hoors the Carrot ?
Are these essentials for Islam to thrive ?
🤔
if you and other islamaphobes want to quote the hadith on 72 virgins then know that this is a very weak hadith no serious scholar will ever quote it, only idiots like you
I keep the message plain and simple:
It’s all good and religious but you don’t have to have a good looking female host. This ain’t Emirates commercial. I hope you understand.
Whoever denies the apostasy punishment is a disbeliever (Kafir).
"There's no compulsion in religion", talks about forcing people into accepting Islam.
Where do you read that there's no compulsion only at entrance but compulsion at exit ?
What you don't understand in « no compulsion in religion » ?
@@nombretau5590LIES
It's beautiful how you literally typed the ayah, then, in the very same breath, introduced your own BS to fit your views.
what kind of scholar are you then ? Seriously learn your religion, broaden your horizons dont embarrass the rest of us
@@nombretau5590 that's the interpretation when you take into account sayings of the prophet PBUH.
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ثُمَّ كَفَرُوا ثُمَّ آمَنُوا ثُمَّ كَفَرُوا ثُمَّ ازْدَادُوا كُفْرًا لَّمْ يَكُنِ اللَّهُ لِيَغْفِرَ لَهُمْ وَلَا لِيَهْدِيَهُمْ سَبِيلًا ﴿١٣٧﴾ سوره نساء
In this Ayat 138 Al Nisa:
Allah swt does not order to kill those people who become Muslims at the beginning of a day and then leave Islam at the end of the day and then again they become Muslim and non Muslim, this continues for four time but Allah swt does not order us to kill them. Allah swt says He will give them punishment in the Akhira, in this world we are no one to punish them
Increase in Kufr means dying on it
No compulsion in religon = you cannot force someone to become Muslim.
Supposed contradiction solved.
no compulsion in religion = you cannot force someone to remain believing in islam/continue islamic practices
Supposed contradiction solved
@@Anverse-14 No one's forces you to stay a Muslim. If you must leave it and go public with it then you've got to accept the consequences. No different than becoming a traitor to your country.
The Munafiqs were known non-believers who pretended to be Muslims and secretly plotted against Islam, they were never punished. There's nothing like Spanish inquisition in Islamic law.
This whole apostasy punishment debate is a non-issue. Where are these droves of people on death row for apostasy?
Dear muslim apologist, take a controversial topic and follow this procedure:
1) Identify a contradiction between quran and hadith.
2) Blame it all on the hadith and absolve the quran.
3) Hope that the problem was caused by someone's unrealiable memory or just insist that it must have been because the quran surely can't be to blame and nor can muhammad.
'It could be this..it could be that..maybe this is what happened? maybe that's what happened?' It's all very hopeful and speculative Shabir! Maybe this not a divine religion shabir..have you entertained that notion? clearly not.
If i have to believe in this religion or I'm going to burn in a big hot fire forever and ever and ever (by a god who is more merciful than my own mother incidentally) I'm not just going to settle for this optimistic account and just HOPE that Muhammad didn't say something controversial. If it is all because of the hadith I want to know why Allah would just sit there and do nothing and allow muslim scholars to attribute false statements to their own prophet esp when those statements are going to become an obstacle for future generations. Isn't Allah obligated (if he wants us to believe in this religion) to transmit the religion to us in a way that is accurate? We get no prophets to interact with, we see no miracles, we dont even get a holy book in our language, all we get are an endless amount of controversial issues (age of aisha, the spread of islam, killing apostates etc) and yet we still have to believe? ultimately my faith in islam must depend on my faith/confidence in (insert your favourite islamic Apologist's name here)! The least Allah could do is keep controversial things out of islam but i suppose that was too much for him.
Which one of these are a different message?
Westernize Muslims: Absolutely No compulsion in religion?
Quran: Fight against those who do not believe in Allāh or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allāh and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth [i.e., ISLAM] from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah1 willingly while they are humbled.
- Saheeh International
Hadith: who ever changes their religion kill them.
How about context?
Fight in the way of Allāh those who fight against you but do not transgress. Indeed, Allāh does not like transgressors.
- Saheeh International
Want more context, okay. I will give you in the same chapter some verses before,
Would you not fight against a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allāh has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers.
- Saheeh International
I'm even using the same translation to make it easy for you, capisce?
been addressed so many times, now go away and dont come back
@@WordsBeyondFiction
Is there context for no compulsion in religion or do you just like that verse?
@@WordsBeyondFiction
The context is in the verse, Fight those who don’t believe in Allah , Muhammad or Islam. What else is the context?
The Quran says don’t compel people to believe- the apostate is not to be compelled he is to be put to death - so there is no contradiction there. Shabir is going against the opinion of a very big majority of scholars here and always tries to cater to the new age liberal Muslims - very sad that you use the western values as your measuring stick.
sheikh, both the hadiiths and the Qur'aan verses are perfect. there is no disagreement . But the problem is that you are not following the correct 15 century formula of interpretation and thus you complicate things and confuse the lay people. I am sorry to say so. I am not attacking you but i am defending Islam. Thanks
Ok. Well go ahead and explain and make it simple what the good Dr Ally has made complicated. We are all ears here.
WTF !!! Hadith are authentic or not - what is this strange game you play
If hadith sentence contradicts with Quran. Then that’s weak hadith. The strong Hadiths don’t contradict the Quran.
@@Raspberries9372 many khadith contradict quran and we favor hadith on quran quite often - for exemple, ramadan fasting is in hadith, the quran say u can fast only a few day and it is not obligatory - so what now?
@@lucharward please quote Quran verses and Hadiths for proof. Example: Quran verses like 20:130 tells you to pray 5 times a day. But the Hadiths complement the Quran in detail on how to pray and all it’s steps in order.
This is no longer Islamisme - it is Shabirallisme - all 4 juridical schools are very clear - you leave Islam is sentenced by death - now thanks God some muslims diagree with this -
Smerf power
Rubbish 🗑 ..The Quran vs Hadith .Total confused religion 😅
Make sure muslim tell unbelievers before conversion the hadith apostasy dead sentence .So they will make the right decision
😅
So there is compulsion in Islam. Apostates are killed, maybe not at the rate in the early years of Islam. In places like Saudi you are “born a Muslim” this is compulsion. Many would leave the religion in that region if they took the foot of these young ppls necks
That is because Saudi Kingdom, Iran, etc practice Judaism and Freemasonry. Thats why they help America invade Iraq and bomb civilians in Yemen. They are Zionists. Islam is sect of Judaism. Only Eslaum is real.
The fundamental question is whether you should resort to physical violence to establish your utopia state. Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is different from the kingdoms of the earth. Take up your cross and follow me.
Subhannallah.... These people want to change the religion of Allah, so to make happy those who are criticizing Islamic law
Utter nonsense!!!
Mr.Shabbir, you look strange! why do you want to follow all instructions which makes non-muslims angry about you guys. when you are in muslim countries you follow all that you want, but when you go to foreign countries follow the life style of those native people. Whats your problem ? you guys create problems whereever you go..whats the reason?
Progressive Islam 🙏
Or just authentic Islam.
@@KevinChavis Yes, it is really in the eye of the observer!
@@amitozazad1584 We have to not accept orthodoxy but the original monotheism, that accepts differences.
Jesus Christ is lord
christian morality so bad
@@jj-yi1ne Best moral comparision would be Jesus and Mohammad. Jesus stands out very clear. This is confirmed by both Bible and Koran.
Batil once again.