Why was Bloodraven allowed to take Dark Sister to the Wall?
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- čas přidán 22. 02. 2024
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My head canons always been along the lines of the last idea. Bloodraven prophetically saw that he needed to go north, conspired with egg to kill the black fire around his coronation ensuring no rebellions during eggs reign, and they could use bloodraven as a scape goat to keep eggs name clean and allow bloodraven to take the black. Which also fits why he was allowed to keep the sword.
My thoughts exactly.
Plot hole: Egg isn't a schemer, at least not at this point. But our dear bloodthirsty albino could have planned that alone
He needed the sword to slice a piece of old Nans famous kidney pie. With the peas and onions
😂
a 13 mins in-depth video didn't convince me but your one line did.
Nan+B.R.=Hodor
Why did Tommen II take brightroar to ruined valyria, a voyage which historically has 100% mortality rate.
Lannister arrogance perhaps? If I recall correctly the Kings of the Rock were generally confident, proud, ambitious, and bold. I feel like King Tommen II truly thought he was going to succeed in his voyage and return with vast wealth and probably even more Valyrian Steel. At the very least, I truly think he was sure he’d return alive (even if he didn’t have anything to show for the trip)
I mean, I guess if you're gonna go, may as well take your best sword. He probably overestimated himself (as is common).
The only reason you'll go on a voyage with a 100% mortality rate is because you think you're special and will be the exception. If you think you're the exception, of course you'll take the sword that will guarantee you'll be the exception.
This is something that I always thought was weird that how does large houses like Lannister and Greyjoy have zero Valyrian Steel blades but yet they have multiple bannermen who have em
@@jeambeam3173house lannister had none because valriya had a legend that the rock's gold would be a curse. As for greyjoy don't know beyond they aren't known for paying for things.
I thought that the Targaryens would have massive caches of Valyrian steel stored on Dragonstone, and that those chaches are huge. Blackfyre and Darksister weren't even named when the first time Aegon and Visenya were asked to name them, because Valyrians didn't bother naming their swords. Not only were they only a few of many, but they weren't even worn for actual warfare but as badges of office, signifying them as the Leaders. Think about it, why don't the swords have Valyrian sounding names? It probably went like:
*Some Guy:* "What is the name of your sword?"
*Aegon:* "The name of my sword? Why would I name my sword?"
*Some Guy:* "All the best swords have names, you know."
*Aegon:* "Oh, ugh..." _Struggles to think of something that sounds cool ._ " ... Black ... Fyre ... "
*Some Guy:* "Awesome. What's the name of your sister's sword?"
*Aegon:* "Visenya? Uh. Dark ... Sister?"
You need to remember that the Targaryens were actually a rather lowly house in the Valyrian Freehold. Its entirely possible that other, much more powerful Valyrian families had these caches, but House Targaryen itself was not one of them. Yes they had dragons, but I think its worth noting that, at the time the Targaryens came to Dragonstone, the only dragon they had was Balerion and he wasn't yet the Black Dread he would be remembered as in Westeros.
House Targaryen became great after Valyrias fall, ruling over a comparatively less developed civilisation that had no chance of matching them.
Rather pathetic when you think about it.
@@Tahkaullus01Agree with everything you just said except the pathetic part lol. Dunno under which metric you consider rising up one’s family through opportunism pathetic, but Id say in the real world it is the smartest move anyone can do
@@lothara.schmal5092I think he means it's pathetic when you can't compete with all the other big boys so you move to the little league to bully all the 10 year olds.
@@Tahkaullus01Ontop of what Lothara has said, Balerion was only 1 among 5 Dragons that Aenar brought with him to Dragonstone. These dragons are as of yet unnamed, but as far as we know died sometime before the conquest.
If Bloodraven was sent to the wall alongside dozens of Raven's Teeth, Aegon V had to know he was handing him the Lord Commander position. Those men would not only vote, they would be an influential faction as respected veterans of an elite guard.
I always thought, like the honor guard, letting Bloodraven keep the sword was a sign of respect for his long service to the family, realm and crown! And no matter what, the sword would return to the capital when Bloodraven would die at the Wall… well, from the perspective of Aegon V.
I think its also to say that having a cool sword doesnt mean you can overule the legal authority of the crown like the blackfyres tried.
Would love to see a series exploring the history of Valyrian steel swords, how they ended up with certain families, why those families got swords, etc. Did Bloodraven engineer Jorah Mormont's disgrace so Jon would get longclaw? Things like that
I thought Longclaw was Dark Sister. But according to wiki's and such, Longclaw has been in Mormont clan for hundreds of years. I guess Bran will be given Dark Sister by Bloodraven in future books... Or something? Edit: perhaps Bran gives Dark Sister to Arya, which she will use for fighting White Walkers. Or something.
That's my contribution to making Song of Ice and Fire more nutty and complicated.
@@pupper5580 Meera Reed is going to wield it 👍
@@jmetts oh yeah I forgot about that theory. Yeah I like this idea!
I love the idea that it's all prophetic in nature. Perhaps Aegon believed he, Brynden, and Aemon were the 3 heads of the dragon, and it was his duty to hatch dragons for the coming war while Brynden and Aemon are on the frontlines in the north. I do strongly believe that Brynden went to the Wall on purpose, due to his magical nature it seems incredibly likely. He kills the "last" Blackfyre which solves that potential problem and then is free to focus on bigger matters in the North with Aegons Prophecy.
Pretty much this.
Aenys wasn't the last Blackfyre, Daemon III was still alive by then and the 2 last known ti live were another Daemon and Maelys I "The Mounstrous"
Well it’s not like he could take his actual sister/girlfriend to the wall with him.
😂
Underrated comment fr
🤡
As a big fan of blood Raven and dark sister itself, there’s no greater pairing than those two
Same
Since I got here early I am gonna take this chance to say I’d love a video going in depth on Bran’s warging into Hodor and how that is an abomination to wargs, as outlined in Varamyr’s prologue. I really think Bran has a dark villainous path ahead of him, where he is going to do terrible things against his own will
Personally I think he will Warg a dragon. I believe that is what he is building up to. Perhaps he will topple the wall accidentally.
He is possessed by Blood Raven. Not exactly a good guy.
@@CoinSlotKittyHes not possessed by BR. BR is literally enslaved by the tree. The old gods control them both now.
@@williamhermann6635 well those dudes are even worse.
@@CoinSlotKitty We really dont know what the motives are at this point. GRRM is purposely vague when it comes to good vs bad characters. Its not gonna be the good guys in white vs bad guys in black. Gray characters everywhere.
Why did Bilbo start to age when he was separated from the one ring but Gollum was fine for nearly a century?
He had a video covering this lately I believe. I think the long and short is 1. Because gollum murdered for it, and wholly embraced the ring while biblo did not. 2. Gollum possessed the ring for far longer. 3. Bilbos aging was still slow, the movies give the impression he goes from 0-100, but in reality there were many years inbetween bilbo and frodo leaving the shire.
@@Gongall he even changed actors in the movies 😛
@@Gongall Oh ok thanks.
The ring wanted to linger. Probably something like that
^ that’s what’s in the video. For me the most likely answer is the nearly 500 years that Gollum had the ring. Exposing things to magic changes them, including people. Bilbo was actively trying to let go of the ring where as Gollum was trying his damn hardest to get it. There’s also a significant amount of time that passes between when Bilbo leaves to when Frodo sees him again. Decades, plus he’s still around for the boat ride to Valinor. I’d still argue that for 130 years old he looks pretty damn good. I will be a skeleton.
I really love all the videos related to Bloodraven, pleeeeease keep making more 🤣
Seconded. My favorite character
when in doubt : make a bloodraven video
He totally did something dishonourable to get himself sent up north. Even before "finding his roots" as it were, he was playing 4D chess
Another excellent video, Robert. I don’t think the fandom appreciates your consistent quality enough. You are getting us through the long night until TWOW.
Having followed Robert for over five years now, I can confirm that I appreciate him, and judging from the fact that I have seen the same people in his livestreams, I am not alone.
The second theory is a lot closer to what I think. It all seems very convenient to put some dragon magic on the wall in a time where building forces vs an army of darkness seems to be mounting. But! Much like grrm always points out, prophecy is hard to get right. It seems like our heroes were a 70 years too soon on moving their pieces into place. Did bloodraven do what he did out of necessity to keep a unified kingdom for the true battle to come?
I’ve always thought that once a sword is gifted no one can command the wielder to give it up, like for example Lyn Corbray has lady Forlorn but his brother who is the head of house Corbray believes it should be his as head of the house, but he’s never demanded it, even if he does want it, I also believe that if the person who gifted the sword is higher in rank in the family than the one who wants it, their authority outward the authority of the new head of the family, so Lyonel wants lady Forlorn but his father (who was head of the house, and thus had the greatest authority) gave it to Lyn the younger brother. So if Maeker when he became king, demanded Bloodraven give up dark sister so that one of his sons can wield it, Bloodraven could refuse by saying that it was King Daeron, Maejars father who said Bloodraven earned it defending house Targaryen against the Blackfyres. Now in regards to going to the nights watch, I assume everyone thought that Bloodraven, when he died, would send the sword south to the remaking targs since he has no heirs to give it to. But obviously he decided to become a tree wizard so it’s prob in the cage somewhere
Though going to the Night's Watch is different. You are giving up your inheritance, your right to have a future heir and everything you have. It is very much like a death-- with your current heirs inheriting at that moment (Jorah inherited the sword when Jeor took the black, then gave it back to Jeor of his own accord). On the other hand, Knights don't give up their Knighthood or their "Ser." so...
@@michaellee4276 but Jeor didn’t have to do that, in his particular case he just wanted to give his son the lordship of Bear island before he died but also wanted to spend his last days doing something he thought was honourable and worth doing so he joined the nights watch
Im pretty sure Aemon, Bloodraven and Egg were in it together, killing the Blackfyre was just an excuse to have Bloodraven sent north
Double benefit, killing the Blackfyre and getting excuse enough at the same time.
Great vid as always IDG & HoW. I do agree by that time with the sword Blackfyre aiding in claimants strife & rebellion via Daemon I Blackfyre and a rallying cry for future Bfs , seems the Targs likely wanted to downplay the swords as symbols of legitimacy. Especially as the "sword of kings" Blackfyre was now in rival claimants' hands. The sword Blackfyre's prominence was already somewhat in decline from the post-Daeron I era on. Baelor I was not a martial or militant type , Viserys II was quite old and reigned for only a short time , Aegon IV didnt give prominence to anything he was associated with and even gave Blackfyre away to at the time a not yet legitimized Daemon I Blackfyre. The most prominent Targ sword's prestige and significance was already in decline from Baelor I - Aegon IV ; so why not downplay swords' significance overall once the main familial sword was lost to the rival Bfs.
Also , makes sense as the vid points out Egg may have wanted to distance from BR / so many of his actions , BR who was so intrinsically linked to Dark Sister (for decades). Could have been a positive PR move from the crown. From that perspective let BR keep DS and retrieve it down the line.
Though also as the vid suggests very much could have been prophetic reasons here. I do lean towards the thinking that Bloodraven and likely Egg (both seemingly very much in the know prophetically) may have realized enough ground work had been completed down south regarding BR's aims, so was time to head up North. BR was very likely well aware his actions would have resulted in him going to the Wall ; potentially in concert with Egg even before that. Does seem somewhat coordinated , at least on BR's part (if not beyond that) and seemingly BR was sent up to the NW with a degree of prestige and ample support.
I never caught this before, but looking at this from a bigger perspective, there was an interesting chain of events, a domino effect of sorts, of the Targaryens losing their symbols of power one by one leading up to Robert's Rebellion:
The Dragons died out during Aegon III's reign, Daeron I lost Aegon the Conquerer's crown in Dorne, Aegon IV gave Blackfyre away to Daemon Blackfyre (plus the sword was then whisked away to Essos after the First Blackfyre Rebellion and disappeared during Daeron II's reign), Aegon V let Bloodraven take Dark Sister to the Wall and the remaining dragon eggs were destroyed at the Tragedy of Summerhall.
And for extra layers, you could add that Balerion the Black Dread died during Jaeherys I's reign(and his last rider was Viserys I). And ofc, Aerys II lost the Iron Throne.
Hey, love your content
At 4:50 you mention the difference between a bastard and long sword being that a bastard sword is significantly larger/longer than a longsword. I'm not sure if it's different in ASOIAF, but in reality the opposite is true. While categorisation of swords is a relatively modern phenomenon (with most of history referring to their culture and period's styles of swords simply as "sword") the consensus today is that a bastard sword is a type of longsword that is shorter in blade and especially grip length.
Hand and a half refers to being able to fit a hand and a half on the grip, with many pommel types like scent stopper or fishtail pommels allowing the other half of the second hand to rest upon them -- a bastardisation of two typical sword types, neither a single handed arming sword nor a two handed longsword. Somewhere in between.
The blade types of arming and longswords from medieval Europe are categorised in Ewart Oakeshott's self titled Oakeshott typology. Again, I don't know if GRRM strayed from our real-life definition of bastard sword, but if he didn't then the description of a bastard sword would make Longclaw a fairly short form of longsword.
this also bothered me! im no sword expert but i was strongly of the impression that a longsword is, well, long... wielded primarily with 2 hands, while a bastard sword was a middle ground in length between arming swords and longswords, that could be wielded with either 1 or just about 2 hands ("hand and half"). saying a bastard sword is longer than a longsword struck me as very off. havent read AGOT since 2018, but iirc though i think it categorised a bastard sword as being a middleground between longswords and greatswords rather than between arming swords and longswords, which is very odd to me. the shows dont seem to respect this though, since dark sister in HOTD is clearly longer than longclaw in GOT.
quite sure its different in ASOIAF , believe GRRM makes it quite clear a bastard sword is slightly longer than a longsword in his universe and the bastard sword could be used with two hands as needed whereas a longsword in his universe is shorter & very much a one-handed weapon. GRRM seems to be tweaking conventional sword delineations.
@@AlexBB77 Saying GRRM is tweaking conventional sword delineations is a rather flattering description. More likely he had no idea regarding any type of historical swords beyond vague tropes, no interest in learning, and so used what ever word he though was coolest in whatever context. Doesn't he have someone describe a longsword to Arya as "so heavy you couldn't even lift it"? Ludicrous, no sword useable in combat in all of history has ever weighed more than a few kg at the most, with almost all coming in around the 1kg mark (substantially less for 1 handed swords, a little more for 2 handed swords). Even a small girl can easily lift 5kg.
It's reversed in ASOIAF where a bastard sword is longer than a longsword
GRRM probably uses Dungeons and Dragons definitions. A long sword by this parlance is basically an arming sword and a bastard sword is a long sword.
I always thought that because Bloodraven was feared that nobody would have dared to take it from him cause he was SO FEARED! but I haven’t read the books just read the Lore
Ah...!! Lord Bloodraven, my 2nd favourite Targaryen ❤
"How long could he possibly have hoped to live?" (meanwhile, almost 100 years later)
Bastard swords are not larger than longswords. They have the same size blade but a smaller grip. They can be used one or two handed, which is why they are referred to as "hand and a half" swords. Longswords are strictly two handed. If Dark Sister was smaller than it was probably an arming sword and not a longsword.
True
Dnd has convinced everyone that an arming sword is a longsword
its an in-universe thing , in ASOIAF bastard swords are slightly longer than longswords and can be used with two hands if the need or desire arises. Longswords in ASOIAF are shorter than bastard swords and wielded with one hand. Dark Sister is clearly indicated as a longsword in the text. GRRM seemed to deviate from some real life sword delineations in his ASOIAF universe.
I think because it was his to leave or take. Also not bad idea for him to have it at the wall.
How about one on the cat's paw. Seems GRRM had a hand in retconning it into a prophetic dagger in the house of the dragon.
I always took it as a sign of respect - and regret - by Egg. He knew he had to sentence and banish Bloodraven for killing the Blackfyre pretender, but he also knew it was probably the only thing that could have prevented civil war. Letting Bloodraven keep Dark Sister was a way of telling him he still saw him as a true Targaryen, worthy of respect. But yes, he probably assumed he'd get it back once Bloodraven died. He just didn't count on the fact that he would outlive them all...
CZcams is having people rate your channel RN. I gave it 5 Stars I think you do an awesome job bro. GOD Bless 🙏🏼
What will young Egg and Dunc discover during their travels North that might plant this seed? She-Wolves of Winterfell.
Your rendition of various lore is well done.
It seems I have a lot to catch up on the song of and fire.
Great video.
Robert I freaking love your videos. It’s relaxing, informative and entertaining
I wish you are enjoying some most deserved success
great playlist, thanks for linking to the secrets of westeros. just watched the origin of dragons and was fascinating ! bout to binge your hour long vids now
Hello Robert! I'm so happy to hear your voice again!
Wonderful content as always!
Your Bloodraven theories are my absolute favorite. Arguably some of the most intriguing lore in ASOIAF, I always look forward to your next lecture. Well done!
The only sister serving on the wall
Pretty sure at least a few Brothers were actually sisters--between 3% and 10%. ;)
For the most part, a longsword and a bastard sword are the same thing. That is, a sword that is short enough to wear, with a handle long enough to get two hands on. This puts it between one-handed swords like the arming sword and “greatsword” like zweihanders.
Love this !! Thank You
Bastard swords, aka hand and a half swords, are *not* bigger than longswords. They're somewhere between an arming sword and a longsword, the name comes from the fact that they can be wielded effectively with either one hand like an arming sword (primarily while on horseback) or two hands like a longsword (preferentially when on foot, unless a shield is used). Oh, and swords aren't worn on the back, the human bio-mechanics simply don't let you efficiently draw a sword that way. There are vanishingly few references of swords being worn that way and the few that do exist are in the context of long distance transportation, rather than being ready to draw at a moments notice in battle. Swords however can be worn at the hip, waist, or under the armpit, by varying the angle and the dangle even very long rapiers can be worn and drawn that way. For really huge swords (like the great swords commonly associated with Landsknecht and similar), they simply can't be worn, and have to carried like a halberd or pike.
Of course, this terminology is all rather modern and used to describe historical European swords, so none of this needs to be true in fantasy world. But if you're going to use real-life terminology in a fantasy setting, you really ought to be consistent with how the way other people use that word, being otherwise people apply fantasy tropes to real history which spreads endless confusion.
The facts that Mormonts had Longclaw always bothered me.
Like how the fuck such poor house can have it? How did they buy it? Makes no sense
they probably stole it after a battle with the andals or ironborn.
Tree Monster probably just took no matter what anyone said.
Poor Prince Aenys he did everything honorably.
True, a war crime that embarrasses the whole dynasty is awfully lightly punished by going to the Wall with the supersword....
I'm hoping that Aemon imported some useful knowledge of Bloodraven/Dark Sister to Sam during their voyage to the Citadel, which will be revealed in TWOW
Aegon V kinda forgot about it
LOVE THAT ASH GOT A SHOUT-OUT!!! Ty for the content.
I remember a lot of GoT fans collectively talking about the moment Meera grabbed a sword from the cave and we were all talking about how that has to be Dark Sister, but then it was never brought up in the final seasons of the show.
Hopefully this is mentioned in the books moving forward. That would be a nice way to have the sword return south.
ohh please make a video on who would you think going to wield dark sister next.
fucking hoodooor lets goooooo
Hodor warged by bran with dark sister would be a nightmare.
Your videos are always so good I love them
I have a theory that Blackfyre and Dark Sister are destined to be used by Jon and Daenerys, respectively.
Blackfyre is described as a hand-and-a-half sword that is between the length of a longsword (a one-handed sword) and a great sword (a two-handed sword), meaning a wielder could use just one or both hands to use it. In Westeros, these blades are also known as Bastard swords.
One of the most important aspects of the sword Blackfyre is that it was the entire basis of the Blackfyre Rebellions. Blackfyre was known as being one of the most prominent symbols for determining who was King, as every King since Aegon I wielded it at one point, even if that King wasn't much of a fighter, like Aenys and Viserys I. Aegon II wielding Blackfyre helped him gain more support for his claim to the Iron Throne. It passed down to every King, until Aegon IV decided to give it to his bastard son, Daemon, instead of his trueborn son Daeron. This eventually led to many believing that Aegon IV wanted Daemon to inherit the throne, causing them to go to his side, and eventually leading to the first Blackfyre Rebellion.
Jon's whole story is about him living as a bastard (even if he actually technically isn't a real one) suddenly gaining a claim to the Iron Throne. Also, Jon uses Longclaw, which is also a bastard sword, so he has experience wielding a similar blade.
As for Daenerys, Dark Sister is known for being a sword that has a much more slender blade, and it can be more suited to be wielded by a woman. Let's not forget, while most of the wielders of Dark Sister were Targaryen men, the very first (known) wielder of Dark Sister was Visenya Targaryen. I like to think of Daenerys as a perfect mix of Visenya and Rhaenys, she can be both sweet, charming and loving like Rhaenys, and cunning, determined, and ruthless like Visenya at the appropriate times.
And while it is true that Dany isn't known for being a swordfighter, perhaps she could wield it symbolically. Many of the Targaryen Kings that held Blackfyre weren't really skilled at sword fighting, and only really held on to it as a symbol of their legitimacy to the Iron Throne (Viserys I and his son Aegon II come to mind). Or maybe she could give the sword to one of the members of her Queensguard to help defend her. How epic would it be to see Jorah (if he returns to Dany eventually) and/or Barristan Selmy wielding Dark Sister?
Finally, you could also make the argument that Dany is a sort of Dark Sister to Rhaegar and Viserys.
I know I don't have any technical proof that this will happen, but I find that the descriptions, as well as the backstories of the swords, seem to hint that they should be wielded by Jon and Dany. I guess we will just have to wait and see.
You gonna tell Bloodraven no?!!
Hell naw!
EXACTLY! Who's gonna take it from him??!😂😂😂
I'm convinced that Meera will be the next human to carry Dark Sister.I don't know what narrative function (if any) it will have, but this much is certain. We know so little about how Bloodraven found himself connected to a weirwood, but it happened somehow. If he carried the sword on his person, as seems likely, then it must be in the cave somewhere with Bran, Hodor, and Meera, with Jojen likely dead (weirwood paste). If Hodor were to die, Meera would be the only human able to wield the sword.
I always assumed that it would be considered a huge disrespectful action to strip a knight of his sword and or spurs.
Those are taken on the battlefield.
Okay I just realized why I live your channel so much: your voice is very reminiscent of Neil Gaiman. Very comforting.
What if Brynden actually predicted himself becoming the 3 Eyed Raven, and had Aegon send him on his way to his destiny?
I always got the feeling that Bloodraven wanted to be sent to the Wall. Killing a Blackfyre to do it was just a bonus. Him and Egg more than likely had a few backroom deals going on. Egg was a true dragon after all the end of the Mystery Knight implies. He would have been more in line with BR's making an omelet methods.
thank you for your videos
Bloodraven was the best hand of the king, that there ever was. He was weird af, wasnt big and strong, but fought a men twice his size, killed assasins, took down rebellion meetings, he basically handeled everything other than major things that king only would have power to deal with. And didnt he like saw the house targaryen in the battle against the blackfyres and bittersteal. He lost eye for the iron throne, made sure all his relatives were safe . He wasnt one of these hands that let bad things happen and then start damage control. He was one of those who regonized the problem early on, when it was still easy to kill. And he handeled it. The last thing he did before getting send to wall, was making sure that another blackfyre rebellion wouldn't be able to start and who the fuck cares about what happens to blackfyres, they have no support. after losing that many times. It wasnt even a house that originated from westeros. they were basically from the acrros the narrow sea, so none of the houses of westeros would not care. So Bloodraven saw an opportunity for long lasting peace, and literally sacrificed him self, so no one cant claim iron throne killed the blackfyre, after getting the invitation and promised safe passage. Imagine how good bloodraven was living, as a high royal man, from the most pwoerful house in westeros. And he was the hand of the king. But was willing to throw all that away just to keep his family and people at kingslanding safe. He is like the 2nd greatest hero of GOT.
Good questions. Interesting theory
i’d love to see a video talking about where you think Meera’s story will go. she is such an important character but in the show bran just said “thanks” and we never saw her again. i think shes got a lot of major plot developments in her future considering her experience with bloodraven and all things beyond the wall, as well as being the daughter of Howland Reed, who’s likely the only person alive who knows Jon’s parentage from Rhaegar and Lyanna.
Bloodraven can see the future. He showed Egg the future and discussed what needed to happen.
And note, by sending a bunch of the Raven’s Teeth, Egg was sending archers to The Wall. 100 years later, Jon recognises that as essential for fighting an enemy from the Wall. Nothing more deadly for WWs than an obsidian-tipped arrow, to say nothing of fire arrows for the wights. This was carefully planned to be ready for an Others attack.
little correction about the type of swords (i know GrrM uses the wrong terms too)
longswords are 2 handed swords and a bastardsword is correctly pointed out as 1.5 hand sword. normally you wear neither on your back ( tho given its valyrian steel and thus lighter, it might be a good bit longer).
one handed swords are called arming swords, at least in medival europe
anyhow great vid as usual!!! keep it up!
A long sword is used with two hands. A hand and a half sword, or "bastard sword" is a type of long sword that is slightly smaller, so it can be used with one or two hands. I believe the term you are searching for to describe dark sister is "arming sword".
are you very certain about your categorisation of bastard swords vs longswords? is a longsword not usually wielded with 2 hands and longer than a hand-and-half (bastard) sword? is a bastard sword not a middle point between an arming sword and a longsword?
It seems specific to ASOIAF , look up the sword delineations on the ASOIAF wiki / AWOIAF. In some cases seems to be different from some real life classifications , though not surprising as GRRM often puts his own spin on concepts.
@@AlexBB77 yeah I vaguely recall AGOT described bastars swords as longer than longswords, and a middle point between longswords and greatswords rather than between arming swords and longswords. Quite confusing. Still, if that is the case, then I believe Robert/IDG would still surely be considered wrong in at least one element, since he refers to bastard swords as "hand and a half swords", which would only apply IRL and not in ASOIAF if what you're saying is true.
@@feedtheorist9944 think IDG is just following in-universe ASOIAF standards and delineations. Go to the bastard swords section of the ASOIAF wiki / AWOIAF and literally first sentence says "A bastard sword or hand-and-a-halfer". GRRM seems to just be a bit wonky with this and of course is his right to tweak his own categorizations as he sees fit. But IDG just seems to be following in-universe standards. Not sure if a link will work since not a mod on the channel , don't know rules about that, but i will try to post the link below.
Do we really think that anyone could take it from him if they wanted?? I doubt it
I've always kind of liked that idea that Jon Snow's sword could actually be Dark Sister, with it having been hidden in the Lord Commander's tower by Bloodraven, and then damaged in the fire Jon set to kill the wight to such an extent that it was mistaken for Longclaw when it was found in the wreckage.
But, I do understand and agree that Longclaw (a bastard sword) and Dark Sister (a longsword, and a relatively slim one) are just too different to be mistaken for each other, even if we somehow assume that Jeor Mormont couldn't recognize his own family's ancestral sword.
Great video as always Robert!
Just as an aside as someone who’s into sword typology, hand and a half swords are often called “Longswords” or more specifically “bastard swords” I think you’re confusing a longsword with a great sword such a “Ice” which is a massive two handed great blade. It’s very likely George would describe both blades in question as either long or half and a half
Make a video about blodravens masterplan that he killed every targeryan to put egg on the throne
V was super into prophecy. I imagine he didn’t actually care about Bloodraven’s crimes as much as we’re led to believe. Probably something that occurred behind closed doors, where both of them needed Bloodraven at the wall to investigate it further with a VS sword at his disposal.
I wish people would quit confusing Long swords and Arming Swords because Gary Gygax messed up 50 years ago.
Greatswords were ridiculously massive. Longswords are what you likely think as greatswords from DnD inspired media. Then bastard swords, Arming swords, shortswords, and daggers.
If you're using a shield, it's probably a bastard or Arming sword.
Unless you're in a roman/greek unit, as gladii amd spatha are shortswords
Entirely agre. Modern terminology (of actual historians or re-enactors, not fantasy writes or D&D players) is roughly:
1) Greatsword = Zweihander = Spadone: A sword so big it's a primary weapon in battle that it can only be used two handed and has to be carried rather than worn.
2) Longsword: A medieval cut and thrust sword with a long handle designed to be used almost exclusively with both hands, worn at the hip (or from a saddle) to be used as a side arm when the main weapon (Lance, Poleaxe, Spear, etc...) is broken or no longer appropriate.
3) Bastard sword: Between a Longsword and an Arming sword.
4) Arming Sword: A medieval cut and thrust sword with a short handle designed to be used one handed by all kinds of troops from all kinds of social backgrounds, and worn at the side as a back up weapon.
5) Dagger: A knife designed for stabbing people
Terminology and typology obviously differs when referring to different periods or areas. But as Westeros is obviously a fantasy version of medieval Europe far more than anything else, if GRRM is going to use terms from real history, he ought to have the common decency of using the terms properly. Otherwise it just spreads misinformation and confusion when people think they can apply fantasy terminology to real history.
Spatha are more similar to arming swords in length, I thought, being the one-handed cavalry sword during the early imperial era.
Some of the Greek xiphos I've seen are almost long daggers more than swords.
@QuantumHistorian
I could be mistaken/the source I read could have been mistaken, or it could be a more modern attempt to nearly categorize inherently messy things, but I've read that spadones are in between longswords and zweihanders in size.
Somewhat off topic, but I saw a picture of a greatsword used by a (I think) Scottish giant, a man between 6'6" and 7', and the freaking thing was easily over 6'. Apparently a real battlefield weapon, too, not a swordsmith's advertisement like some of those giant Japanese swords seem to have been.
I'm 5'11", a bit larger than the average man of the 16th century, so I can only imagine how terrifying it must have been seeing that figure on the field of battle.
Imagine Shaq coming at you with a sword taller than you are...
Makes me wonder if Bloodraven did a fist pump and said "YES!!" In his mind when Egg sentenced him to The Wall
Love it. ❤
hand and a half swords are essentially long swords and are usually shorter than longswords.
There is a lot of robust discussion here about the lengths and categories of swords. Wish I could ask Brother Maynard to consult the Book of Armaments.
Maybe Bloodraven knew Valyrian Steel could kill white walkers
I think it was more so a politically motivated move by Aegon V. The last time the Targaryens placed any real legitimacy in having one of their Valyrian steel swords, we got the Blackfyre rebellion. By allowing a bastard (despite being legitimized) to take the sword to the Wall, Aegon V is diminishing any actual value the sword has as an icon of legitimacy. Plus no one expected Bloodraven to get lost beyond the Wall so I’m sure they were expecting to get it back when he died.
Oh that's a good angle. It de-legitimizes Blackfyre by proxy!
@@Levacque Precisely!
Hodor uses dark sister while holding the door
Or it's hiding in Leanna's statue waiting for John, since he'd need a smaller blade for tighter places
I noticed something I'm not sure I've ever heard mentioned. When GRRM describes most things as "Giant" or i"t looks like a drowning Giant" he is literallly referring to the WW trees. If you pull up all the instances it really adds a layer to what he is saying or describing. "He has more than enough to concern him without fretting over giants and dead men in the woods" or "Others had raised tents or made rude shelters by stretching their cloaks over low branches. Giant had crammed himself inside the hollow of a dead oak. """He remembered their godswood; the tall sentinels armored in their grey-green needles, the great oaks, the hawthorn and ash and soldier pines, and at the center the heart tree standing like some pale giant frozen in time." " The groaning of the great hinges sounded like the moans of a dying giant. "
"Wun Wun was very little like the giants in Old Nan's tales, those huge savage creatures who mixed blood into their morning porridge and devoured whole bulls, hair and hide and horns. This giant ate no meat at all, though he was a holy terror when served a basket of roots, crunching onions and turnips and even raw hard neeps between his big square teeth. "He's a willing worker, though getting him to understand what you want is not always easy. He speaks the Old Tongue after a fashion, but nothing of the Common. Tireless, though, and his strength is prodigious. He could do the work of a dozen men."
"I … my lord, the men would never … giants eat human flesh, I think … no, my lord, I thank you, but I do not have the men to watch over such a creature, he …"
Nan was talking about the trees and not the race,
It's interesting that Bloodraven was called Brynden Rivers even after Aegon IV legitimized him. If he was legitimized shouldn't he have been Brynden Targaryen? 🤔
It was that mass-legitimization which created the Blackfyres, so for that reason, people like Bloodraven probably would not consider it legitimate or at the very least would want to distance themselves from it by not acknowledging it
5:10 its funny how in books and pop Culture these rules have been established, cause in reality, Dark Sister would fall into the Category of a „Arming Sword“, a Bastardsword is essentially a Arming sword that you can use with one hand or both hands.
A long sword on the other hand is as its name suggest exactly that, a long sword, and is only wielded with two hands, its also the largest of the three category’s.
In pop culture the name „Arming sword“ has been left out, because no one knows how to imagine a „Arming“ sword, so author’s always say „Long sword“ although a Long Sword would be a two handed longer version of a Bastard Sword, a Bastard sword is mostly not much longer than a Arming sword, the main difference is, that the grip is fittet so you can use both hands. (Most historical arming sword grips are only so big that one hand fits around.)
0:28
I think you forgot that link!
this Bloodraven guy seems really nice
all those lives saved
dunno why people rave about Ned; he just got people killed
I love your videos so much
Dragons are associated with magic. I wouldn't say the "most magical time" was after they all died.
Aemon went to the Wall so he wouldn't be used as a pawn against Egg, whose election was quite controversial in the Great Council due to being "half a peasant".
my question would be is how egg felt about bloodraven. did he like him? i think its more likely egg let him keep it because bloodraven had served the kingdom long and well. no matter what he did,
bloodraven is still a part of the family.
My head canon is that Bloodraven stole Dark Sister by placing a glamour on the sword, similar to Stannis' Lightbringer, and he made it appear as a regular steel sword. I'm surprised you did not mention it as a possibility considering we've already seen a disguised sword in the story.
Might be that Myra will wield Dark Sister, but also, Maester Luwin cancels Bran’s idea of him riding Hodor’s shoulders, being a knight together with him, and tells him that the mind and the body need to be one. This could be foreshadowing to Bran warging into Hodor while the last wields Dark Sister in order to fight the Others in a scene similar to the one on the show.
Egg was preparing for the long night
Also, maybe Egg was terrified of the prospect of taking a sacred sword from the Blood Raven.
Bastard swords (aka hand-and-a-half swords) are designed to be able to be used both single handedly or with 2 hands and are not larger than longswords, which are specifically designed for 2 handed use. Not sure if you meant arming sword which is designed to be 1 handed but I don't believe Darksister is an arming sword - just a lighter, narrower bladed longsword which would make it at least as long (and possibly longer) in the blade as Longclaw but with a longer hilt and thinner blade width.
Always wondered why Ser Jorah Mormont didn't sell Longclaw to the Lannisters when he needed money so badly ? I am sure he could have gotten 100k gold dragons from the Lannisters for it
Hey dude! Not sure if you read comments but I think some of your travellers guide to westeros videos got taken down or something, they became unavailable from a playlist of yours
Why? Cuz who’s gonna tell him no!? That’s why!
I mean... He was imprisoned, was he not? Would be weird if he was sitting in a cell with his sword worth more than a castle on its own.
@@dawn4383 hahahaha fair enough.
I think Hodor will take Dark Sister and Bran will warg into him and fight off the wights to give him and Meera time to escape. It would be a pretty awesome way for Hodor to hold the door.
I might be crazy but I could have sworn I read some where George said the fire and blood was not reliable because it wasn’t being told from the charecters perspective and that the show house of the dragon was canon to the books
I would say the same reason why Bloodraven was allowed to take his clothes or hair with him. The sword was simply his.
But it wasn't. It's a family sword
@@gottenm9106Sure it is a family heirloom, that does not mean it isn't his. It was given to him, like it has been given to other family members before. Sure he might not have the right to sell it, but nobody has the right to take it from him either.
Dark sister is probably part of the tree that blood raven became.