Qyburn - A Character Study
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- čas přidán 8. 02. 2024
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This is a revised and updated version of a video first published in March 2018
Sir. I suppose it would be a whole extra channel to speak about the AD&D sources in Game of Thrones,* but for me Qyburn is a perfect 2nd edition AD&D true Neutral Necromancer. 17 intelligence and 16 wisdom typical minimums. He wouldn't be able to create a Ghoul or anything, but Raise Dead, sure. Has he the Art to Animate Dead, bringing soulless Zombie bodies to the fray? Only the DM knows.
* I imagine Mr Martin like myself, beginning with 1st edition, blossoming into 2nd edition, building my own house rules, and then subsequent editions just feed the 2+e I got going.
Omg I thought I was having the longest episode of deja-vu ever
I was having trouble understanding why Robert was not carrying out the story of Qyburn to his end in the Red Keep at the hands of his creation, the Mountain. I hope with the next revision of this he will do that. There was plenty more to learn about Qyburn from subsequent events.
Qyburn should borrow the catch-phrase from the Hills Pet's commercial:
_"Robert Strong? Science did that!"_
Ok I thought I’ve seen this already lol.. let’s see if the revision is better
What’s interesting about Qyburn is that he’s one of the few people in Westeros actually willing and able to discover new knowledge and advance science. Whereas most maesters these days are content to just learn and repeat only what has already been discovered. Although his pursuit is a bit macabre
Yeah it’s really weird how stagnant Westeros has been. They’ve used the same form of government and technology for thousands of years. That’s depressing. They need a dude like Qyburn but not Qyburn
Yeah, as he says in one of the History and Lore vids, he says the Maesters “study without learning”, passing down what was passed down to them, with no addition.
@@Balon-BreakspearIt's pretty realistic though - our species is over 300.000 years old, but what we like to call civilisation arose only some six to ten thousand years ago. Technology progressing as fast as it does recently is anything but the rule - it took only 66 years from the first powered flight to landing on the moon, but for the longest time people lived and died without ever experiencing any technological innovation at all, and more than once technology regressed hundreds of years just because some centralized empire collapsed.
Of course our developement since and during the medival era war pretty fast as well in comparison, a mere 1000 years with plenty of innovation in comparison to Westeros where things remained relativly stagnant for ten times this duration - but I don't think the rapid progression of our reality isn't necessarily a given.
Small differences in culture and factors such as the unpredictable seasons could lead to centuries of stagnation if the agraic economy of Westeros couldn't sustain the same growth of population which drove our need for innovation during and since the middle ages.
At the expense of living, innocent people? Pretty easy to see why that shouldn’t be allowed.
He's basically the GOT equivalent of a nazi death camp scientist
It's interesting that the GoT show made the same mistakes with both Qyburn and Littlefinger which is making them creepy and disturbing while in the books they are very friendly, charming and likeable which is why no one suspect their sinister motives.
MMMMM I MEAN. Littlefinger kissing Sansa did not make him seem charming or friendly!
But i agree about Qyburn-he’s genuinely kind, and I’d argue he’s kind in the show too. He’s the one who gives Cersei a blanket after her repentance walk and his actor plays that genuinely, not as a power play but because he really cares for Cersei and doesn’t want to see her shamed in front of her guards. No one else even offers. And he’s sort of inherently creepy to most because he’s interested in “necromancy” and live experiments, though not everyone thinks all that is super creepy.
Eh, Littlefinger is still pretty clearly slimey in the books, imo
@@leroy7246 to us as readers yes, but in the eyes of most characters and in the courts theyre very very trusted and seen as little brother/grandpa respectfully
totally agree. I literally LOLed when read GOT (book 1 not show) & Littlefinger(chewing mint so had good breath, an obvious lady's man) tells Ned things like "dont fall & break ur neck or Cat will never forgive), & "try to fondle a breast or 2 so u blend in" LMAO.. the dude is funny, good hygiene, etc, not creepy when we meet him in the books.The show totally made him creepy from go
Littlefinger was presented that way until he betrays Ned. After that, it wouldn't be possible to sell a "nice guy" Peter. Visual mediums are very different in that sense.
Tfw you realize that Cerseis relationship with Qyburn is probably the healthiest relationship she’s ever exhibited with anyone in the books, even if only professional.
That's very true lmao. I remember when I first watched the scene in the show where Cersei tells Jaime she's pregnant, my first thought was that she and Qyburn were knockin boots. Kinda sad we didn't get to see some sort of zombie baby, that would have been a sight to behold.
And to be fair that is her (and Tywin's for raising her like that) fault a lot of the time. She's just kind of a massive asshole to literally everyone around her so it's not really a big surprise why she hasn't had any.
Cersei is my top 3 ASOIAF characters, but she's usually the problem in every interaction she has. Antagonizing literally every single person that doesn't owe her complete and utter reverence.
@@somebodynowhere2895Tywin made his family’s life a living hell because he only values his idea of his family, not who his family actually is. He never got over his father’s weakness; consequently, now all he can see in those around him is their weakness, which he despises. However, that attitude makes him weak because it turns his family against him. If Tywin were kinder to his family, he would be unstoppable and incredibly dangerous.
Cersei gives him women to "experiment" on, both prisoners and people Cersei just wants out of the way. I hardly consider feeding Cersei's cruelest impulses to be healthy.
@@vontosmagicmurderbag2611
Don’t get me wrong, Cersei and Qyburn are both HORRIBLE people. But in terms of mutual cooperation and respect for one another, Cersei is actually insanely accommodating towards Qyburn, and Qyburn so far is insanely loyal to Cersei.
Yes, they’re both selfish and would betray eachother if they saw it fit. But Qyburn gets stuff done, and Cersei respects that. She doesn’t actively belittle him like she does with Pycelle, or manipulate him like the kettleblacks, or actively hovers over him like she does with Tommen. There’s a pretty clear transactional dynamic here.
They both get something from this and support eachother; for all their scheming and conniving about wanting to betray eachother, they honestly don’t really have a reason to. They’re a perfect storm of two horrible people getting together in a mutually beneficial bid to make the world miserable
He’s like a bizarre chimera of Frankenstein and Rasputin and I love him. He’s one of my favorite characters.
What a terrific comparison. This really stands out to me because I have just read about Rasputin in depth. I wish I could like this comment twice!
I want someone to write a fanfic on Qyburn traveling to the modern times and resurrecting evil people.
With a dash of Mengele thrown in for good measure
You need to throw in a splash of Josef Mengele
Given George R Martins fondness for Lovecraft I think you have to add Herbert West into that chimera
“Warm eyes, with laughter lines around them”, - Palpatine had those too, once upon a time …
GRRM is certainly laying down all the the hints. A very unsettling descriptor, when aligned with his ambition, motivation...and utter lack of moral compass.
It’s easy to miss, but I really like the bit in Season 7 where Qyburn picks up and examines the still moving hand of the wight that the Hound has just cut off. It’s a little detail that works great with the book version. One of the only positives that I’ll give from those seasons.
What book?
missed opportunity though. the show was already being butchered at that point and it only got worse. in hindsight it would have been merciful for us all if when picking that hand up he yelled "its clobbering tims" and proceeded to beat everyone to death.
I'll take the religion version of resurrection with Baeric over the science abomination of the Mountain anyday
most of you judge the final seasons too harshly and entirely inaccurately. and i must add ungratefully. what that team accomplished is remarkable and deserving of praise.
Could just rename Season 7 to Season Suck.
Qyburn was my favourite character in GoT.
"If it please your grace he has taken a Holy vow of silence. He has sworn that he will not speak, until all his graces enemies are dead, and evil is driven from the realm" love how he delivers that line
How could he possibly be your favourite character he's a sickafant Cruel a puppet for cersie
@@cherylbaxter8986 Did you not watch the video all the way through, he's a butcher and an opportunist, not a sycophant.
Unscrambling that code: "I made The Mountain even worse, and I'll have him eat anyone you tell me to."
I don't think it's quite right to read Qyburn as an "anti-magic, pro-science" character, because that's Marwyn's major complaint with the Citadel and the rest of the Maesters as a whole, and it seems as though Qyburn and Marwyn got along very well if we take Qyburn at his word... it would be very strange for Qyburn to also call the Maesters "grey sheep" if he was doing the exact thing that Marwyn called the others "grey sheep" for doing... rather, I think Qyburn is trying to use science to *understand* magic, which the rest of the Citadel is vehemently opposed to because that means *acknowledging magic exists*
He might also be using magic to augment science, to overcome hurdles that are impossible for science alone.
Also important regarding Qyburn's loyatly.
He was dismissed from the Small Council after Cersei was arrested. Ser Harys Swyft and Grand Maester Pycelle offered the regency to Kevan Lannister. Pycelle seems to have been the leading man of the two before Kevan arrived. Pycelle dislikes Qyburn and likely advised Kevan to dismiss him. Or he dismissed him while he and Ser Harys were still in charge.
It seems that if Qyburn would've wanted to abandon Cersei to switch to the new man in power, Kevan, he was blocked from doing so by Pycelle. He needs Cersei as a shield from Pycelle (and by extension Kevan) in order to safely continue his research. He couldn't switch sides to the new power (Kevan), so he remains 'loyal' to Cersei.
I think the channel misread the show version.
I honestly believe he was truly loyal to Cersei. She respected him, she respected his talents, and she fed his studies. All the people he was 'disloyal' to discouraged and looked down on him.
Peak Internet geek content, your videos give me an itch to re read the books and make me wish I was more observant the first time.
do it! it is impossible to know what sort of tidbit is important your first go around. I listen to the audio books atleast once a year and I still hear something new each time, or some little foreshadow I had missed. I have listened to them all at least 9 times now, lost count haha. Some times Roy Detrice narrates my dreams, those audio books are PEAK content.
Im about to re read for 3rd time I haven't watched the shows in years now so hopefully I can read with a fresh mind with not so vivid images of the show,,,, which I came to dislike.
I’ve re read all of them about 4-5 times. I’m not even close to seeing it all.
I’m not reading again until winds now.
In deep geek is the best saiid CZcamsr. He doesn’t make stuff up from lose links and leaps in logic.
Intriguing character wonderfully portrayed by the excellent Anton Lesser. The scene in ‘The Light of the Seven’, when Qyburn tells Grand Maester Pycelle that the old must die to make way for the new, before unleashing his ‘little birds’ on the old man, is quite brilliant.
Qyburns discovery on how to bring people like the mountain back from the brink of death would most likely be lost forever with his death. Unless someone discovers any surviving notes after the destruction of kings landing. the history books probably won’t even mention Qyburn. Just like they didn’t mention Tyrion. Qyburns efforts will most likely all be for nought.
I can imagine that he has the forethought enough to have his scientific pursuits copied and shared amongst others that were like-minded. Because there has to be more just like him. Not necessarily that they share the same interests, but Samwell Tarly was also a huge proponent of the collecting and dissemination of knowledge of every kind. I, for one, would like to believe that Qyburn was intelligent enough to see beyond the afternoon.
@@Oblivisci........ Agreed. He's got stacks of carefully compiled notes stashed in a variety of places, with a variety of like-minded people. He's not going to let his hard work and brilliance go to waste.
Not if the current order of the Maesters was done away with😊
He should sell this information to the Boltons or Ironborn. I feel like Euron would love Qyburn
Cept it'll probably be a core component in understanding "necromancy" which is the big evil in this story.
maybe even Nuke comparisons.
After the Night King uses it. And humans "understand it" do we use it and risk destruction or put it away? Do we use it against the night king?
And obviously the cat is already out of the bag. Science and Qyburn are amoral so the necro nuke science will proliferate depending on resources needed to fuel it.
In the show especially his rise to power was incredible, it honestly became a bit crazy how clever he was basically doing everything for cersei. He was hand, maester, spymaster, necromancer, alchemist and inventor, just wow.
I really like the architype of the "true scientist"; someone utterly devouted to the advancement of knowledge; completly unconcerned with any kind of moral considerations
I've never been this early to a video! I'm not even sure Qyburn is sadistic, he doesn't get enjoyment out of torturing his victims he's just endlessly fascinated
I agree. 🙂 While watching the show, I didn't get the sense that he was sadistic (getting enjoyment from his ability to inflict pain). He just seemed fascinated and curious. However, I'm comfortable in saying he must either completely lack empathy or have extremely low levels of it. Otherwise, he would not be able to carry out his experiments.
Yes Qyburn is obsessed with his quest for knowledge. He doesn’t enjoy the suffering his experiments cause living things but it doesn’t bother him either.
That's how modern medicine advanced, cruel, inhumane indifference in pursuit of knowledge
He was certainly focused. As for not being sadistic, little is said about what happens to the people that get sent to him in the black cells save one particular, healthy lady who, after his 'ministrations' could do little more that eat, with assistance. She had knowledge that could compromise Cerci, and Qyburn had no qualms helping.
A certain musician, with a reputation for seduction was also 'persuaded' to adjust the truth concerning Margaery. That persuasion with the help of Qyburn who seemed to be enjoying himself.
Brilliant individual though I wouldn't trust him, especially if it involved a general anesthetic.
Even Descartes liked experimenting on live animals and his philosophy greatly advanced medical science.
Qyburn gives one of the creepiest lines in the whole series:
"Alas," said Qyburn, "I fear Lady Falyse is no longer capable of ruling Stokeworth. Or, indeed, of feeding herself."
We know Qyburn has been doing... something to lady Falyse, but what the hell does that even mean? Has he ruined her mouth? Her hands? Her brain? All of the above? Why is he even doing this? The fact that we never get an answer to any of these questions makes it so much more harrowing because it forces our minds to fill in the blanks.
The only other thing we learn about Falyse's fate is that she dies screaming.
Jesus Christ.
I really enjoy the studies and commentary by this channel.
Qyburn was always one of the most interesting characters to me, it seems like he has almost created his own version of "wights" or zombie like "others" that feel no pain and can obey orders, perhaps made more with a mix of science and magic
So excited to watch this and then read other people's comments. I'm sure it is going to be great! Thank you, IDG. You always give us great work. 👍
Really enjoyed this and the in depth deep dive of the character. Thank you for the fantastic content! Love this sort of stuff on the lesser “main” characters.
"Some of the worst things have been done with the best intentions"
"I sniffed a woman's chair after she left, and it was awesome."
That would be really interesting if Qyburn had some higher goal to benefit humanity but it seems to me the work itself is the driving force for him. He wants to see if it can be done and it might be a product of ego meeting resentment at being low born. What an interesting character!
@@ThommyofThenn So then..."He's so preoccupied with whether he could that he didn’t stop to think if he should."
@@Wolfeson28 well quoted :0)
that is probably also true. He just seems like a curious mind to me, who knows why he does what he does @@ThommyofThenn
Quburn is loyal to his studies and his work. All else is mercenary to his understanding.
Or maybe more specifically looking at the Zombies ad Wargs. In the Song of Ice and Fire universe the living body and the living soul do not explicitly need each other to endure. As the Wights show the body can continue with out its soul so to do the Wargs show that the souls can continue with out it's body. But as you put out with your examples it's appears to be much easier to preserve the body then it is to preserve the soul.
I think it's kind of interesting how you phrased that thing at the end about how Qyburn is at the forefront of the maester's mission even though they expelled him in disgrace. It brings to mind how Brienne and Sandor are two of the characters most worthy of the title of knight even though they don't have it/want it
When discussing/ranking the most evil people in ASOIAF. Qyburn is usually skipped but he's genuinely up there with the very worst of them
Your videos are usually about the same length as my drive home from work so I appreciate you being a consistent companion to this lonely traveler, and with interesting content to boot!
@10:00 exactly!! I've always seen him as a parallel for Dr. Frankenstein.
Show Qyburn is my favorite Alchemist-Necromancer hybrid class.
Awesome. I was just wondering about Qyburn a bunch while re-reading parts of the books a few days ago. I appreciate your content!
I dread to think what might happen if / when Cersei and Qyburn join up with Euron. Mixing Qyburn’s talent for creating zombies with Euron’s magic and cruelty and madness is a horrible thought
mutual aniquilation...sweet
One of the things I love about ASOIAF is that most of the really interesting characters are brainiacs, schemers, not the great fighters or warriors. Varys, Tyrion and Littlefinger are the prime examples, but Qyburn definitely belongs to the same group.
My favorite Asoiaf content creator. Keep up the great work!
He is every D&D groups rules lawyer who has figured out the mechanics.
Great video
You can extend some of this to the magic users (or so-called). You don't need to understand the intricacies of the internal combustion engine to drive a car. Some ancient knowledge has probably been lost, but some people still learn how to operate the "machinery" of what they call magic.
The Science of Discworld books explore that topic vis a vis the famous Arthur C Clarke's "Sufficiently advanced technology" quote.
Love this. ty for the content. Very interested to see what you think about him.
One of the better characters in ASOIAF.. I admire his dedication to knowledge.
I wonder if Qyburn got his Valyrian Steel link, at the Citadel, studying magic and this might of peaked his interest? Maybe the Elder Maesters "found something", early on and were scared, so they put a halt to any study on that subject. Deny, deny, deny. Maye scared that a Mad King/Queen having an army like the Mountain?
Excellent summary, Geekster. I love your analysis. Have a wonderful day. 😊
These keep me going until the winds of winter 🥲
Better yet. Call George and write the last 2 together. After years of delay, time George got a co-author. Finish the books George! Boycott the new shows until we get the books.
Never coming out.
When I read that quote from Qyburn I had wondered if that was a hint about a woman being at the citadel due to previous statements about them being barred form the citadel.
Barred from learning they probably work thier as helpers though
@@mementomori771 She had a distinct smell, sat on a chair and drew the ire of his superior for mentioning it to him. Doesn't sound too much like a worker.
Unlife is definitely one theme in the series. Red priestess revives more than one person (in the books even Catelyn Stark is revived) and Daenerys also orders black magic be used to revive Khal Drogo.
A brilliant analysis, of an especially enigmatic shrouded individual
11:15 imagine if we get to see them feign an intellectual battle on behalf of each queen, while the reader is privvy to the fact they are in truth, working together towards...something. Fascinating as always @IDG
These Friday videos are all bangers!!!
Great Video! Just a show watcher so this gave some needed depth !
Great video. Qyburn was always interesting to me but I couldn't place my finger on it and now I can. Sinister but not necessarily evil, working in the shadows and jumping ship to suit his agenda. Anton Lesser played this character excellently in the show and I actually prefer this portrayal of him, I only wished they had more time to showcase his story.
❤❤❤ Love your work. Thanks
his motivations make him my favorite character in the series.
Your soft consistent voice mixed with the interesting nature of your videos is perfect to help draw my brain away from every day life troubles, draws me into another world giving me the ability to sleep without sleeping pills. Thank you!!
Robert I can’t thank you enough for the content !!!
This was great. I love your ASOIAF videos.
A brilliant essay, as usual.
I propose that we start considering Men of Stone are likely Earth Wights.
Qyburn is a fascinating character amongst many. I found the chatacters like him, a mix of darkness, beinign at times, likeable at times yet capable of terrible things to be captivating. Those witb their honors and duties certainly play their part to make GOT what it was. Robert the Bruce, Ramsay, The Greyjoy' the Wildlings...such interesting characters.
Regarding the thought thAt something lingers when you die, Beric Dondarrion talks about how each time he comes back he feels "less" and is losing his memories but not his conviction, he needs a reminder on how many times he had died from Thoros
I always felt Qyburn was somewhat a cautionary tale from GRRM of the dangers of science without humanism or morality , hence the Frankenstein / Promethean echoes with Q. With Qyburn's likely endgame and what he is building towards i suspect that will become even clearer. And given Q's always on the rise path without any shred of loyalty or morality i think also plays into that. Though will give Q his credit he used people and did well for himself by often attaching himself to the right people at the right time to get into his ideal niche ; the time and resources to get back to his studies / endeavors. And doing so he's certainly made clear discoveries. Also commendable to find a scientific route to achieve and partly explain the same we've seen through magical means. Qyburn was proved quite correct that "something lingers" and he's figured a scientific way how to utilize it.
Perhaps keeping more morality and humanism in the approach there is for sure some value in what Qyburn is learning if channeled the right way. And when you think about more fringe elements like Qyburn's and the Alchemists' Guild etc, actually being more embraced and accepted (by the Citadel especially) ; perhaps we would have seen much more overall advancement , especially from technological and medial standpoints.
The way you describe his want to learn at any cost reminds me alot of Orochimaru.
fantastic!!
I admire your faith that Qyburn's story isn't over.
Qyburn is the kind of man science doesnt like to talk about, but owes a lot to
The depth of the characters in R.R.M's world is astonishing! 😮
The books talk a lot about magic in general, ramping up in the world. I'm curious if Qyburn could have even pulled off his 'the mountain resurrection' say ten years prior to the story taking place.
I love your content. Please keep it up.
I enjoyed this so much. I know the books are so different than the show and he is not their for Cersei but for his own understanding and she allows him to practice
Well said on all fronts
Qyburn is GRRM's thoughts on 'the banality of evil': evilness can lurk in any person, and any character. He's basically Dr Mengele: the pursuit of knowledge at any cost, amorally.
Qyburn is extremely intelligent. His design for a giant crossbow was certainly capable of downing a dragon.
I loved this character, I see him as a mad scientist I wish GRRM would have expanded on.
Good argument. Well done!
Oh hello In Deep Geek, my old friend. You dont know me, but your videos got me through some lonely periods in my life. Its been awhile, since I've watched your videos on the regular, but the algos reminded me!
Amazing.
I really like your youtube channel, I enjoy this character studies . I would suggest you to make one about Queen Visenya, alone and also why not Catelyn Stark and Olenna Tyrell . Great job as always 😊
I’m not sure you can say for 100 percent certainty that Qyburn only relied on his scientific skills to create Robert Strong. He also dabbled in the dark arts as well. Thus his ties to Marwyn
Awesome bro great content as always huge fan bro!!
What amazing video Again
Very well, carry on
I’ve been watching so much idg live lately i forgot about the main channel for a second
I'd like to see Qyburn decide that now he knows everything about life and death, he wants to search out the secrets of the original Valyrians.
How fitting, that Cersei, lover if wildfire, has an associate, named QyBURN.
I really loved his character he spiced things up in King's landing he was a mad scientist
I always liked ole Q.
He’s just a curious little Frankenstein.
Hi Robert i find this character fascinating. I can see the paralel now between the Mad King's court and Cersei's. They both soround themselves with "peculiar" people , and dismiss those Who can help them and are more suitable for the job actually(Tywin/ Kevan ). I think that we Will see Qyburn becoming Hand of the Queen. How Will he use that new source of power?
many bad things can be said about the later seasons of game of thrones, but one scene i personally enjoyed was the talk between qyburn and jaime about how many people they killed and saved. first qyburn thinking he won that verbal spar by implying jaime killed far mor people and saved only a few, if any. only for jsaime to turn it around saying he saved more people than he killed when he broke his vow and killed the mad king.
also qyburns talk about people studying corpses to learn about life and he wanted to learn about death, clearly implying that he experimented on living people
Baron VON Frankenstein, thank you...
A living example of the G factor & why potential is nothing more than a synonym for capability to prosper under various circumstances.
Cersie becomes more paranoid, he's there to cater to that.
I always found his character interesting, but i never thougtht this dudes a necromancer! Or at least grr martins version of one. Great video!
He's a snake in the grass, That's all you need to know, Characters who are willing to do evil are not misunderstood
Qyburn is studying what lingers of the soul after death and Bloodraven explains how the warg's soul linger after death. I hope this connects in some way in the future
My fav detail about Qyburn is that his eyes changed colour to blue in AFFC as opposed to brown is ASOS. Idk if it's an error on George's side since it's a small detail mentioned only twice in his descriptions or a purposeful hint about his necromantic practices. It would be an interesting plot point in either case if Qyburn with his actions accidentally or deliberatelly recreated/turned himself into an Other. Maybe he will be a rival of Marwyn - one tries to stop the Long Night while another wants to embrace it.
Just in time for my GOT rewatch. Love your content always!
I don't think I could rewatch GoT. The later seasons are so bad they actively ruin it.
I would love a Qyburn POV to get a peek into what’s going on in his head
Aaaaah Qyburn. Proof or the old adage that just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
He is coldly rational in his pursuit for knowledge, very freighting.
I named my apothecary for my space marine army Qyburn because I liked the name. He has done the Emperors work in bringing back Hellblasters and the new flamer carrying guys.
I think Qyburn wants to keep doing what he's doing: studying, understanding, asking more questions, and whatever resources he needs to do so.
Qyburn strikes me as the kind of guy that would join those sell-swords even if he had a reputable name so people would steer clear of him, giving him privacy for his experiments etc.
Think he will figure out how to make a dragon? I'd love to see him analyze Danny's corpse.
I love the use of AI art.
Great video.