Hey, I know you’ll likely not see this, but how large can your simulations get, and what can’t you do in terms of simulation. I don’t wanna end up asking for a simulation that can’t be done Edit: Like I’m assuming that you can’t do the seventh fleet vs the British navy.
since their roles are both anti air/missile defense, wouldn't it be a better test to see who is better at their intended roles, have 1 of each ship assigned to protect a target and see which one does better
It would be Type 45 because the radar and targeting systems is a bit better than the Burke so a better system overall, combined with the later tranch missiles type 45 is the better platform but both Navy's would be happy having either of these ship types defending their carrier groups, they are the both the best if the best at this role
The RAN (Royal Australian Navy) have been offered to alter the Hunter ( type 26) class to increase the VSL to 96 cells I was just wondering how that would go VS the Chinese type 55 . Interesting science.
I feel like it would make more sense for a battle like this with no long range intercepts to have all the SM-6s be set up for anti-ship instead of only half of them. Great work as always Cap!
One thing about the mechanics of the core game is that I wish that programmable missiles would actually work correctly with the ships. Right now it's 100% about the "hard" stats of the ship and missile, and they just throw their missiles directly at each other in a straight line. In reality, most modern AShM maneuver on the way, and have different modes and heights that they will take. That's a big thing about the LRASM, it can maneuver and fly in at unexpected angles. The Russians claim that about the Zircon too, which would make it extremely deadly. If that missile was in DCS it would simply be a worse version of the YJ-21 because it's not as fast in a straight line, ignoring the fact that it is maneuverable and also flies low.
I have the feeling sea-skimming missiles like NSM are much too easy to intercept in this game. In real life, there should be lots of clutter from waves or weather effects that makes them more difficult to intercept.
Yea the simulations LOOK so real we are tempted to assume there is the same level of detail in the munition and sensor models... but a lot of that information is just not going to be available so ultimately it's a game that makes a ton of guesses regarding these things. We do know that the reason the US military was not concerned with hypersonic missiles (until there was an opportunity to secure additional funding by MAKING a bid deal out of it) is because the altitudes they have to fly at make them more vulnerable than low flying slower missiles (because even though they're much faster, they still are able to be effectively targeted for longer than their low flying cousins)... so that tells us something about the predicted performance of sea skimming missiles.
@@kuhndj67 Agreed. There is also the fact that modern sea-skimming missiles like NSM have additional features like independent targetting, unpredictable evasive maneuvers and the ability to plot intricate trajectories that are not part of the simulation at all. In many ways, the simulation is quite simplistic.
Even the Wiki Data supports this, plus they are made of composite materials that make them stealth. To a ship they may even look like a small fish jumping out the water. All in the wiki data. (which is the benchmark for these battles).
Personally I’m more partial to the Burkes and it’s simply due to how many I built on Minecraft and building models growing up. I can see the appeal to the Type class but the Type class doesn’t have the “FAFO” vibe that the Burkes have
Type 31 would be fascinating to see in a knife fight as its going back to a more cannon rather than CIWS based air defence. Two 40mm with 300 RPM and a 57mm with 220 RPM with each shell being about 20 times the size as a Phalanx shell or ten times the size as of a Goalkeeper with around four or five times their range.
Don't forget about the proximity sensors and 2100 pre fragmented shells. A 4 second burst with all 3 guns would put around 120,000 pieces of supersonic shrapnel in the path of any threat.
Mk8 Mod 1 was based on the Abbott SPG's gun from back in the day. The main difference between Mod 1 and Mod 0 is that the latter used hydraulics. The USN Mk45 5in is actually designed to be a naval gun. Moving to the new gun for T26 allows the RN to perhaps use smart ammunition in the future as Mk8 is a dead end development wise.
Hey Cap. Have you and the Reaper crew tried your hand at aerobatic formation flying? It might be fun to see you all attempt some standard formation aerobatics in a variety of aircraft types. Could be worth a few laughs plus create some challenging situations and communications improvement.
Great show CAP! I wanted to see how good both of our Destroyers were at Defense and Offense! Thank You!!! And who in the HELL ARE THESE KNUCKLE HEADS???👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇
A series of wargame you could play is one T45 acting as convoy escort for operation pedestal the Malta relief convoy v luftwaffe and Italian air forces. You could test this against all of the modern AD destroyers in the game.
Love your videos, would be interesting to a see danish frigates against russian frigates. We have some pretty amazing frigates. We may only have 5 but they are mighty
I always find your simulations interesting and educational. This one I found amusing, in what parallel universe could anyone imagine the Royal Navy being able to put 4 T45s at sea
I would love to see some Royal Dutch Navy Vessels on DCS. The 'Zeven Provinciën' Class should be very equal to the Type 45 Class. In fact the British Type 45 has a Dutch made Radar on it from Thales. The French and German also have Dutch radars on their vessels. So, i'm very curious how a 'Zeven Provinciën' class would perform in DCS (especially since The Royal Dutch Navy was very renowned back in the 1600's). And I love your video's Cap, I watch them every day. Keep up the good work!
Yeah was always going to be a stalemate with missiles as they are both two of the best AA destroyers in the world right now for CSG defence, and aren't really setup for offence like a Type 055 would be. Thankfully they both fight on the same side! 🇬🇧 🤝 🇺🇸
Might I suggest a modification to the scoring system? Part of the strategic consideration of all these assets is what it costs to buy the capability in the first place, so a starting value for each side would be fun to consider, instead of only the losses accrued in the battle.
@@grimreapers Missiles are long and heavy. The crane's reach was limited and it was off to one side. All of it moving around multiple centres of gravity. Just too much going on with things full of fuel and HE around other things full of fuel and HE.
I met a guy who runs a Patriot battery protecting NORAD in Colorado. I asked him if he thought it was funny that Patriot was so good at stopping Russia's best and fastest missiles. He said that it was a massive, unforced error to voluntarily expose that weakness.
Since burks are $2.5B a piece and Type 45's only 1.2, it might have been interesting to see 12 burks vs 25 Type 45. Maybe bring it down 6 vs 12 it the server can't take it or if you want to give 'Murica more of a chance.
YOUUUUU LIIIIMEYYYY BAAAASTAAAARD!!!! I HAVE NOT YET BEGUN TO FIIIIIGHT! (the Tincup has been flowing somewhat this Thursday evening, as is plain to see...)
Wouldn't it make sense to load up heavy on defensive missiles, have a higher speed rate to close the gap quickly, and then have bigger and more canons? Seems to always come down to missiles running out and then you have a sparse amount of guns/canons so it's a draw.
@@Springer1-1 mate 23s are elite I swear, doesn’t matter what you throw at them they just work, I’ve been onboard USS truxon when alongside in Cagliari, I couldn’t believe how tight it was onboard, made a 23 feel bigger! How can you do a cross pol? I’ve been watching to do that
In real life that Sampson radar is very very good. It is actually better than expected when the first Type 45s was delivered to the Royal Navy. Same thing happened with the Astute-class submarines sonar system.
@Grim Reapers - Nice stuff Cap, you did the best you could. I will say DCS does not model or represent the capabilities of the Mk 45 (5" Naval Gun System) on the DDG's or CMP's correctly, so that is a lost cause in this simulation. In addition, to my knowledge, the Torpedo tubes that exist topside should be able to be used against surface vessels as well.
3 Things 1) Nice job Cap and Current hill. Thanks for these units and "scientific" trials 2) As good as that Aster is, i seriously doubt it could reliably hit as small a target as an SM6 at speed. But, game mechanics, i get it. 3) is it possible to have the ships use the SM6 only for ASW and save the ESSM and SM2 for defense? Maybe have one AB3 run full ASW and 3 defenders? OH! bonus 4) what about the tomahawks?
Why do you doubt that Aster couldn’t hit a “small” SM-6? Also, we’re really stretching the definition of small now, aren’t we? The SM-6 is nearly 7 metres long and has a diameter of over half a metre, it’s certainly not small by any stretch of the imagination and is about as big as other AShMs. In fact, the SM-6 is larger in ALL dimensions compared to a Harpoon and those are trivially easy to intercept. Tomahawks weren’t used because Block IV can’t target ships and Block V is still undergoing operational testing so is not available. Four Type 45s carry up to 288 interceptors so even if they doubled up on each missile, that’d still require 144 missiles to be sent before the interceptors were exhausted. An AB3 doesn’t have 144 VLS cells so you’d need to completely physically stuff one AB3 and then basically half of another with just SM-6s or Block V Tomahawks, which would never happen in real life for financial and practicality purposes. Additionally, some notation corrections. ASW is Anti-Submarine Warfare. AShW is Anti-Ship Warfare.
@@tryannosaur I am surprised because despite the length of the missile, they are relatively narrow. Most of the missile threats faced would be from much larger missiles of red origin. It's not all about physical size but aspect.
@@wolf06291980 The SM-6 isn't really much smaller than most other Western AShMs. It's larger than the Harpoon in basically all dimensions and those ancient missiles are basically cannon fodder to modern missile defences. The only advantage the SM-6 has over the Harpoon is that it's significantly faster but that's not going to really help when it's still only supersonic and non-stealthy. It's smaller than those from Russia and China because it's, on paper, far less capable. The SM-6 is merely a supersonic missile with no special bells or whistles in terms of AShW whereas something like the YJ-21 is hypersonic and carries a significantly larger payload. One hit from a YJ-21 or even just the fragments of a YJ-21 on approach is going to mission-kill any ship or possibly even sink it if it's just a destroyer/cruiser. One hit from an SM-6 is unlikely to be able to do enough damage to take a ship out of action entirely.
re: the conversation about the accuracy of claimed capabilities vs. actual capabilities, the data and reporting from Ukraine suggest that Russian Kinzhals only operate at about a third of the claimed max speed, which would explain why they've been intercepted fairly successfully
Your talking about the British gun just reminded me of a headline from a few years back where a journalist at a large British Newspaper was complaining about the navy wasting millions on a gun thatbwas 5 inches long 😅😅😅😅
6:37 uss carney is an arleigh burke flight 1. It does not have the ability to fire sm6 as far as im aware, could be wrong though (they still wouldve used sm2 tho)
From what I am to understand, in the past up to the current time, the Arleigh Burkes were primarily the attackers, launching cruise missiles with the Ticonderogas in the role of air/space defense. With the retirement of the Ticonderogas, the role of air defense will fall to the Block-III Burkes, but even then the Block-III's should still have a swing-role capability owing to their deeper depth Mk-41 silos which should allow them to take LRASMs and the Block IV/V Tomahawks. On paper, in a contest of endurance, 96 multipurpose cells will beat 48 SAM cells + 8 AShMs. It would all depend on the loadout of the multipurpose cells. With the Burkes you'd have to configure their silos with a heavier mix of offense than defense. Or pack every cell with an SM-6... Too bad the sim can't do the Burkes justice. They can theoretically do a hi/lo attack with LRASMs and SM-6 that can hit the opponent's air-defense perimeter at around the same time to overwhelm defenses.
The type 45's also had all thecrew served weapons listed in the briefing (6 7.62) mgs but none of the Burke's . 50 Cal or 7.62 were listed idk how much of a difference would have made though lol
Please do not take this message in a negative way! I love all you do and I've been viewing every daily video for 3 years now. We all know what's going to happen when a setup like this happens. Missiles from both sides go up and hit each other till they run out. Could you do a video where there is a sacrificial setup? Take a carrier and see what the other's missiles do it? So "IF" one got through, this is what going to happen to the deck of a carrier or the guns of a destroyer. I would, and probably a few others too, would love to see just an CIWS only defense and just how well they would do. Like where they are positioned on these British ships on the front instead of the sides. "What if" scenarios are always fun and a lot of people love them. You know, maybe the enemy has a new EMP weapon and it effected only certain targeting systems.....some failed....and some are only working. And it accidentally hit the users ship too. So now the ships have to actually MOVE to hit each other or for defense. Remember, and you know it, valued humanoids love what???? BOOM BOOM (times infinity....lol)!!!!! Cap, honestly, thank you and your guys (even the drunk Gruntnik) for all you do. I've had 5 spine surgeries over the last 7 years. It takes about 7 months to heal from each and your content keeps my brain occupied and off this God forsaken pain. I know you're sick and have went though a LOT also. My prayers constantly go out to you and your family sir. THANK YOU! Justin.....
These naval battles are cool, but it makes me think that old Gun Boats will have more success in hitting a target than some of these missiles that are seemingly easy to shoot down
Tomahawk V's and SM-6 Block 1B coming soon?? Lol CH ;) Lol Cap Block V Tomahawk has been in service since 2021! CH we need Littoral Combat Ships with NSM and Zumwalt with CPS!🙏👍 Btw Australian Hobart Class are also receiving Tomahawk V!
I wonder if there are any missiles that are originally released as a pair (or more) connected together, so that the opponent detects only one missile, and then once they're within a specific range, they split apart, each choosing a different target than the original. I wonder how much that would increase the difficulty of taking them out.
I saw a type 45 in the Bahamas a couple months ago the hms dauntless to be specific and it didn’t have the deck launchers or the mushroom farms. I’m curious to see the current iteration vs a proper flight 2 Burke
on the topic of chinese antiship ballistic missiles. the latest models of DF21s can land within 10m of a target. This might give a destroyer a chance to evade by not a carrier, the argument has always been about china's ability to locate and track a carrier out at sea. but since the mid 2010s. chinese space and airborne ISR has advanced by leaps and bounds where that shouldn't be an issue at all. Electronic jamming might be the only saving grace the US has but laser communications with a satellite could make the signal unjammable
Are there no "jamming missiles" that are publicly known? Seems kind of odd to only have ECM pods put onto growlers or EW airplanes. Definitely wish we had proper salvoes in this game.
Why would you fire your anti ship missiles against an adversary when you know they have so much defenses? And could anti ship missiles not drop a torpedo when in range, to avoid the defenses? (I guess the difference of speed vs water would be a major issue)
This was an okay battle. It would've been better if LRASM-B and Tomahawk Block-V were ready. You should subtract the forward CIWS from the Flight-lll Burkes because the real life versions don't have one. And absolutely no nerfing in DCS. Nerfing is a cancer on gaming.
In the ship dogfight, the reason it took the Americans so long to engage is because of the new combat doctrine. The US will not fire upon any enemy until they know their pronoun preferences.
What are the specs for the current server you guys use for the big battles? And do the battle sizes come down to the server or other issues being a bottleneck?
@tryannosaur times seem to have moved on with cold launch capabilities, their was talk about adding a mk41 to the type 45 back in 2021. Type 26+31 frigates are getting mk41 I assume they would be quad packed CAM aster30 thingies if we can afford enough.
@gtbyast those are the old seawolf cells, MBDA offered to upgrade them to 12 x quad pack CAMM missiles, but we didn't go down that route at the time. They are adding another 24 sea captor cells starting 2026 I'm assuming those aren't quad pack or we would have more missiles than a flight 3 Arleigh Burke. Been reading up 👍
Should have waited till the end. US 5" gun vs a British 4.5" Gun which has 25% higher rate of fire, 25% heavier shells AND a 15% greater muzzle velocity.
Out of curiosity, is there anyway you can get famous canceled projects, for example the xb70 or the x47 in the game? If so, is there a way you can put them in a simulation of three types; when they were brand new (like the xb70 in the 70s), then 20 years later, then modern day. We can see if the call to cancel the program was the right decision and would it be relevant in the modern day. Finally, in naval battles why not model submarines? Even if you don’t have them in the game couldn’t you simulate the missiles, especially when doing fleets and strike groups there is at least one sub?
Hey, I know you’ll likely not see this, but how large can your simulations get, and what can’t you do in terms of simulation. I don’t wanna end up asking for a simulation that can’t be done
Edit:
Like I’m assuming that you can’t do the seventh fleet vs the British navy.
This is about the max: czcams.com/video/i2Sb5IOh4Qc/video.html
@@grimreapersthat video was so dang good lmao
@@grimreapers should do a naval knife fight series may I suggest HMAS vampire (daring class last gun destroyer with RAN) Vs PLA navy type 55.
since their roles are both anti air/missile defense, wouldn't it be a better test to see who is better at their intended roles, have 1 of each ship assigned to protect a target and see which one does better
It would be Type 45 because the radar and targeting systems is a bit better than the Burke so a better system overall, combined with the later tranch missiles type 45 is the better platform but both Navy's would be happy having either of these ship types defending their carrier groups, they are the both the best if the best at this role
Big Shout Out to CurrentHill for providing these incredible mods to play with
yup
The RAN (Royal Australian Navy) have been offered to alter the Hunter ( type 26) class to increase the VSL to 96 cells I was just wondering how that would go VS the Chinese type 55 . Interesting science.
I feel like it would make more sense for a battle like this with no long range intercepts to have all the SM-6s be set up for anti-ship instead of only half of them. Great work as always Cap!
One thing about the mechanics of the core game is that I wish that programmable missiles would actually work correctly with the ships. Right now it's 100% about the "hard" stats of the ship and missile, and they just throw their missiles directly at each other in a straight line. In reality, most modern AShM maneuver on the way, and have different modes and heights that they will take. That's a big thing about the LRASM, it can maneuver and fly in at unexpected angles. The Russians claim that about the Zircon too, which would make it extremely deadly. If that missile was in DCS it would simply be a worse version of the YJ-21 because it's not as fast in a straight line, ignoring the fact that it is maneuverable and also flies low.
certain missiles in the core game can do terminal popup attacks, maybe the can copy the code from those.
I have the feeling sea-skimming missiles like NSM are much too easy to intercept in this game. In real life, there should be lots of clutter from waves or weather effects that makes them more difficult to intercept.
Yea the simulations LOOK so real we are tempted to assume there is the same level of detail in the munition and sensor models... but a lot of that information is just not going to be available so ultimately it's a game that makes a ton of guesses regarding these things. We do know that the reason the US military was not concerned with hypersonic missiles (until there was an opportunity to secure additional funding by MAKING a bid deal out of it) is because the altitudes they have to fly at make them more vulnerable than low flying slower missiles (because even though they're much faster, they still are able to be effectively targeted for longer than their low flying cousins)... so that tells us something about the predicted performance of sea skimming missiles.
@@kuhndj67 Agreed.
There is also the fact that modern sea-skimming missiles like NSM have additional features like independent targetting, unpredictable evasive maneuvers and the ability to plot intricate trajectories that are not part of the simulation at all.
In many ways, the simulation is quite simplistic.
Even the Wiki Data supports this, plus they are made of composite materials that make them stealth. To a ship they may even look like a small fish jumping out the water.
All in the wiki data. (which is the benchmark for these battles).
I was never a huge navy guy, but i find the Type class interesting ships, my favorite being the Daring.
Personally I’m more partial to the Burkes and it’s simply due to how many I built on Minecraft and building models growing up.
I can see the appeal to the Type class but the Type class doesn’t have the “FAFO” vibe that the Burkes have
@@KRDecade2009 The types have that vibe, it's something you wouldn't expect, until all your missiles are getting shot down.
Type 31 would be fascinating to see in a knife fight as its going back to a more cannon rather than CIWS based air defence. Two 40mm with 300 RPM and a 57mm with 220 RPM with each shell being about 20 times the size as a Phalanx shell or ten times the size as of a Goalkeeper with around four or five times their range.
Don't forget about the proximity sensors and 2100 pre fragmented shells.
A 4 second burst with all 3 guns would put around 120,000 pieces of supersonic shrapnel in the path of any threat.
Mk8 Mod 1 was based on the Abbott SPG's gun from back in the day. The main difference between Mod 1 and Mod 0 is that the latter used hydraulics. The USN Mk45 5in is actually designed to be a naval gun. Moving to the new gun for T26 allows the RN to perhaps use smart ammunition in the future as Mk8 is a dead end development wise.
Noted also.
Hey Cap. Have you and the Reaper crew tried your hand at aerobatic formation flying? It might be fun to see you all attempt some standard formation aerobatics in a variety of aircraft types. Could be worth a few laughs plus create some challenging situations and communications improvement.
I watch all your stuff, there's no way to tell what's going to be great until you watch.
More great work CH, keep em comin.
Great show CAP! I wanted to see how good both of our Destroyers were at Defense and Offense! Thank You!!! And who in the HELL ARE THESE KNUCKLE HEADS???👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇
A wise man admits to what he doesn't know.
Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying the channel.
As a viewer I feel valued
A series of wargame you could play is one T45 acting as convoy escort for operation pedestal the Malta relief convoy v luftwaffe and Italian air forces. You could test this against all of the modern AD destroyers in the game.
Love your videos, would be interesting to a see danish frigates against russian frigates. We have some pretty amazing frigates. We may only have 5 but they are mighty
I always find your simulations interesting and educational. This one I found amusing, in what parallel universe could anyone imagine the Royal Navy being able to put 4 T45s at sea
I’m a simple man; I see Arleigh Burke destroyers and I say “it’s a wrap for (enter opfor here)”
I would love to see some Royal Dutch Navy Vessels on DCS. The 'Zeven Provinciën' Class should be very equal to the Type 45 Class. In fact the British Type 45 has a Dutch made Radar on it from Thales. The French and German also have Dutch radars on their vessels. So, i'm very curious how a 'Zeven Provinciën' class would perform in DCS (especially since The Royal Dutch Navy was very renowned back in the 1600's). And I love your video's Cap, I watch them every day. Keep up the good work!
I can sense some major boom boom incoming
Important prediction.
That was different! Thanks CH and CAP :)
Yes this valued viewer is doing valuably well!
It helped the Royal Navy type 45s engaging broadside as their CIWS is allready facing port and Starboard.
Nice to know allies have similar equipment makes a strong team 💪 🇬🇧🇺🇲
If you don't group them together and keep 4 single ship groups, they should all fire the standard sized salvo
Yeah was always going to be a stalemate with missiles as they are both two of the best AA destroyers in the world right now for CSG defence, and aren't really setup for offence like a Type 055 would be. Thankfully they both fight on the same side! 🇬🇧 🤝 🇺🇸
if they gave a Type055 the quad packed FM3000n, it could do both offense and defense.
the non-at sea reloading of VLS , means that for instance , the missile strike on Syria the USN did was planned way before
Why are the NSMs being shot down over 50 miles away? NSM is a stealth missile that wouldn't be detected until they reach the radar horizon.
Yeh I don't really get that either...
NSM is pretty bad in the game. Iam pretty sure in real life it is better. :D CH must look into this.
Either their game model just sucks or American radars are just that powerful
Might I suggest a modification to the scoring system? Part of the strategic consideration of all these assets is what it costs to buy the capability in the first place, so a starting value for each side would be fun to consider, instead of only the losses accrued in the battle.
Roger will consider.
I would like to see how many AB Flight 3's it would take to beat the entire current Canadian Navy & Air Force. I'm guessing 3
interesting point... You have the US navy in the French Colour (Blue). We had Red vs Blue for the battle of Trafalgar 200 celebrations.
Replenishment at sea of VLS cells didn't work well enough. It was not a case that they just stopped doing it.
Noted
@@grimreapers Missiles are long and heavy. The crane's reach was limited and it was off to one side. All of it moving around multiple centres of gravity. Just too much going on with things full of fuel and HE around other things full of fuel and HE.
I met a guy who runs a Patriot battery protecting NORAD in Colorado. I asked him if he thought it was funny that Patriot was so good at stopping Russia's best and fastest missiles. He said that it was a massive, unforced error to voluntarily expose that weakness.
Jolly good show. Guess it’s time for a nice cup of tea.
"Dogfight" in the future should be at the minimum engagement distance of their anti-ship missiles and hopefully within cannon range?
Since burks are $2.5B a piece and Type 45's only 1.2, it might have been interesting to see 12 burks vs 25 Type 45. Maybe bring it down 6 vs 12 it the server can't take it or if you want to give 'Murica more of a chance.
YOUUUUU LIIIIMEYYYY BAAAASTAAAARD!!!! I HAVE NOT YET BEGUN TO FIIIIIGHT!
(the Tincup has been flowing somewhat this Thursday evening, as is plain to see...)
next video south korean destroyer vs chinese destroyer
Destroyers have come a long way since the Fletcher class.
Cool guys. Predictably pretty but fairly tame Missile on Missile but SWEET gunfight.
Gunfight was lame
Wouldn't it make sense to load up heavy on defensive missiles, have a higher speed rate to close the gap quickly, and then have bigger and more canons? Seems to always come down to missiles running out and then you have a sparse amount of guns/canons so it's a draw.
the us offered us 6 arleigh burkes for the Sampson radar system used on the 45 shoes how good the radar actually is
Having done a cross-pol onto Arliegh Burke I couldn't believe how "flimsy" they felt on the inside .
I was glad to get back onto my T23 😂
@@Springer1-1 mate 23s are elite I swear, doesn’t matter what you throw at them they just work, I’ve been onboard USS truxon when alongside in Cagliari, I couldn’t believe how tight it was onboard, made a 23 feel bigger! How can you do a cross pol? I’ve been watching to do that
In real life that Sampson radar is very very good. It is actually better than expected when the first Type 45s was delivered to the Royal Navy. Same thing happened with the Astute-class submarines sonar system.
Do you have a reference for that claim?
@@smyers820gm not on hand, the only reason we turned them down is we couldn’t crew them, don’t have enough people unfortunately
I am sorry guys but if your at war & your life is on the line YOU DONT CARE ABOUT COST!!!!
yeah they didnt fire an SM2 because of cost, it was because they have more SM2s to use
@Grim Reapers - Nice stuff Cap, you did the best you could. I will say DCS does not model or represent the capabilities of the Mk 45 (5" Naval Gun System) on the DDG's or CMP's correctly, so that is a lost cause in this simulation. In addition, to my knowledge, the Torpedo tubes that exist topside should be able to be used against surface vessels as well.
Engerland expects every man to do his duty!!!
3 Things
1) Nice job Cap and Current hill. Thanks for these units and "scientific" trials
2) As good as that Aster is, i seriously doubt it could reliably hit as small a target as an SM6 at speed. But, game mechanics, i get it.
3) is it possible to have the ships use the SM6 only for ASW and save the ESSM and SM2 for defense? Maybe have one AB3 run full ASW and 3 defenders?
OH! bonus 4) what about the tomahawks?
Why do you doubt that Aster couldn’t hit a “small” SM-6? Also, we’re really stretching the definition of small now, aren’t we?
The SM-6 is nearly 7 metres long and has a diameter of over half a metre, it’s certainly not small by any stretch of the imagination and is about as big as other AShMs.
In fact, the SM-6 is larger in ALL dimensions compared to a Harpoon and those are trivially easy to intercept.
Tomahawks weren’t used because Block IV can’t target ships and Block V is still undergoing operational testing so is not available.
Four Type 45s carry up to 288 interceptors so even if they doubled up on each missile, that’d still require 144 missiles to be sent before the interceptors were exhausted. An AB3 doesn’t have 144 VLS cells so you’d need to completely physically stuff one AB3 and then basically half of another with just SM-6s or Block V Tomahawks, which would never happen in real life for financial and practicality purposes.
Additionally, some notation corrections. ASW is Anti-Submarine Warfare. AShW is Anti-Ship Warfare.
@@tryannosaur I am surprised because despite the length of the missile, they are relatively narrow. Most of the missile threats faced would be from much larger missiles of red origin. It's not all about physical size but aspect.
@@wolf06291980 The SM-6 isn't really much smaller than most other Western AShMs. It's larger than the Harpoon in basically all dimensions and those ancient missiles are basically cannon fodder to modern missile defences. The only advantage the SM-6 has over the Harpoon is that it's significantly faster but that's not going to really help when it's still only supersonic and non-stealthy.
It's smaller than those from Russia and China because it's, on paper, far less capable. The SM-6 is merely a supersonic missile with no special bells or whistles in terms of AShW whereas something like the YJ-21 is hypersonic and carries a significantly larger payload.
One hit from a YJ-21 or even just the fragments of a YJ-21 on approach is going to mission-kill any ship or possibly even sink it if it's just a destroyer/cruiser. One hit from an SM-6 is unlikely to be able to do enough damage to take a ship out of action entirely.
Oh no! War Plan Red has been realized.
re: the conversation about the accuracy of claimed capabilities vs. actual capabilities, the data and reporting from Ukraine suggest that Russian Kinzhals only operate at about a third of the claimed max speed, which would explain why they've been intercepted fairly successfully
ukraine also reports to have shot down more missiles than Russia has fired by several fold.
Can't we do a test run for future events. Meaning can you role play iran vs nato please
Your talking about the British gun just reminded me of a headline from a few years back where a journalist at a large British Newspaper was complaining about the navy wasting millions on a gun thatbwas 5 inches long 😅😅😅😅
I hate it when mommy and daddy fight.
6:37 uss carney is an arleigh burke flight 1. It does not have the ability to fire sm6 as far as im aware, could be wrong though (they still wouldve used sm2 tho)
I'd like to see the same fight again, from a POV looking over the shoulder of a Burke.
I didn't get to see much.
Should send this to the MOD as a petition to keep our current naval gun 😂
Looks like they are both going to kill each other with so many missiles in the air....
From what I am to understand, in the past up to the current time, the Arleigh Burkes were primarily the attackers, launching cruise missiles with the Ticonderogas in the role of air/space defense. With the retirement of the Ticonderogas, the role of air defense will fall to the Block-III Burkes, but even then the Block-III's should still have a swing-role capability owing to their deeper depth Mk-41 silos which should allow them to take LRASMs and the Block IV/V Tomahawks.
On paper, in a contest of endurance, 96 multipurpose cells will beat 48 SAM cells + 8 AShMs. It would all depend on the loadout of the multipurpose cells. With the Burkes you'd have to configure their silos with a heavier mix of offense than defense. Or pack every cell with an SM-6...
Too bad the sim can't do the Burkes justice. They can theoretically do a hi/lo attack with LRASMs and SM-6 that can hit the opponent's air-defense perimeter at around the same time to overwhelm defenses.
The type 45's also had all thecrew served weapons listed in the briefing (6 7.62) mgs but none of the Burke's . 50 Cal or 7.62 were listed idk how much of a difference would have made though lol
5:48 - ALL of them! ;-)
Let’s roll out the US battleships vs uk destroyers
Hey. Valued viewer here.
Hi
Please do not take this message in a negative way! I love all you do and I've been viewing every daily video for 3 years now.
We all know what's going to happen when a setup like this happens. Missiles from both sides go up and hit each other till they run out.
Could you do a video where there is a sacrificial setup? Take a carrier and see what the other's missiles do it? So "IF" one got through, this is what going to happen to the deck of a carrier or the guns of a destroyer. I would, and probably a few others too, would love to see just an CIWS only defense and just how well they would do. Like where they are positioned on these British ships on the front instead of the sides.
"What if" scenarios are always fun and a lot of people love them. You know, maybe the enemy has a new EMP weapon and it effected only certain targeting systems.....some failed....and some are only working. And it accidentally hit the users ship too. So now the ships have to actually MOVE to hit each other or for defense.
Remember, and you know it, valued humanoids love what????
BOOM BOOM (times infinity....lol)!!!!!
Cap, honestly, thank you and your guys (even the drunk Gruntnik) for all you do. I've had 5 spine surgeries over the last 7 years. It takes about 7 months to heal from each and your content keeps my brain occupied and off this God forsaken pain. I know you're sick and have went though a LOT also. My prayers constantly go out to you and your family sir.
THANK YOU!
Justin.....
Interesting video thanks!
These naval battles are cool, but it makes me think that old Gun Boats will have more success in hitting a target than some of these missiles that are seemingly easy to shoot down
Tomahawk V's and SM-6 Block 1B coming soon?? Lol CH ;)
Lol Cap Block V Tomahawk has been in service since 2021!
CH we need Littoral Combat Ships with NSM and Zumwalt with CPS!🙏👍
Btw Australian Hobart Class are also receiving Tomahawk V!
this is why we need railguns. in the world of assm vs sam, the guy that can send ballistics over the horizon is king.
unless those railgun rounds are guided they won't be hitting much beyond 20nm.
I wonder if there are any missiles that are originally released as a pair (or more) connected together, so that the opponent detects only one missile, and then once they're within a specific range, they split apart, each choosing a different target than the original. I wonder how much that would increase the difficulty of taking them out.
Hey Cap missiles have a shelf life. So I would think oldest missile would be sent first. The old use it or lose it
Also Cap do you really think UK would send 4 of the 6 type 45 destroyers 5hey own to a single battle. I think UK would never do such a thing
Roger noted.
I saw a type 45 in the Bahamas a couple months ago the hms dauntless to be specific and it didn’t have the deck launchers or the mushroom farms. I’m curious to see the current iteration vs a proper flight 2 Burke
They're only currently being fitted. I think only 1 has NSM at present, with only three getting them in total
@@tonybell404 well ch and supercap yall just gotta rerun it lol
AWO Air Warfare Officer decides priority.
Sucks that DCS doesn't allow you to program missile waypoints, alts, ect like in real life.
Good stuff!
Next, Type 26 vs Alreigh Burke III pls! :D
I wonder how well a mixed group would do half and half so you get high and low anti ship attack at same time using tot?
The British naval gun can fire 1 round every 2 secondswhich may be the reason for the win.
you should do a Zumwalt stealth ship video
please try the indian SMART TORPEDO, missile assisted torpedo, please!!!!!!!!!!!
Rule Britannia!
You don't go into broadside fight with the Royal Navy. The French tried that for 100 years and didn't go well for them.
Eh. Chesapeake Bay?
@adrien5834 one random fluke against the b-team out of dozens upon dozens of fights.
Weyhey! Rule Britannia! 😅 I know it's just a bit of fun, but I'll take every chance I get 🤣
on the topic of chinese antiship ballistic missiles. the latest models of DF21s can land within 10m of a target.
This might give a destroyer a chance to evade by not a carrier, the argument has always been about china's ability to locate and track a carrier out at sea. but since the mid 2010s. chinese space and airborne ISR has advanced by leaps and bounds where that shouldn't be an issue at all.
Electronic jamming might be the only saving grace the US has but laser communications with a satellite could make the signal unjammable
“The latest models of DF21s can land within 10m of a target.”
Your source?
@@Jeffrey.1978 Duncan Lennox, ed., Jane's Strategic Weapon Systems, 51st ed. (Coulsdon, Surrey, U.K.:Jane's Information Group, 2010)
Air wing is the typical offense for these ships
Are there no "jamming missiles" that are publicly known? Seems kind of odd to only have ECM pods put onto growlers or EW airplanes.
Definitely wish we had proper salvoes in this game.
Doctrine says neither would fire as it’s shadow and fire if fired upon 😹
Why would you fire your anti ship missiles against an adversary when you know they have so much defenses?
And could anti ship missiles not drop a torpedo when in range, to avoid the defenses? (I guess the difference of speed vs water would be a major issue)
Cap is banned from controlling the US Navy :P
This was an okay battle. It would've been better if LRASM-B and Tomahawk Block-V were ready.
You should subtract the forward CIWS from the Flight-lll Burkes because the real life versions don't have one.
And absolutely no nerfing in DCS. Nerfing is a cancer on gaming.
Just wondering, will you guys maybe use the Tomahawk Block V?
There are gunna be some very upset Americans coming in.... 😂
And the patreon pledges disappear...
In the ship dogfight, the reason it took the Americans so long to engage is because of the new combat doctrine. The US will not fire upon any enemy until they know their pronoun preferences.
Thought the type 26 was a replacement for the type 23 not the 45?
What are the specs for the current server you guys use for the big battles? And do the battle sizes come down to the server or other issues being a bottleneck?
don't the flight IIA and III Arliegh Burkes not have a front CIWS?
would love some insite? i thought the CAMM missiles were quad packed so 4 per launcher like the ESSM? or is that for the future?
The Brits went for single pot mushroom farms instead of quad cells, no idea why.
@@grimreapers Wasn't it because with mushroom farms they can be cold-launched in much quicker succession than if they were quad-packed into a Mark 41?
@tryannosaur times seem to have moved on with cold launch capabilities, their was talk about adding a mk41 to the type 45 back in 2021. Type 26+31 frigates are getting mk41 I assume they would be quad packed CAM aster30 thingies if we can afford enough.
Possibly repurposing sea Ceptor cells from the type 23s as they are retired.
@gtbyast those are the old seawolf cells, MBDA offered to upgrade them to 12 x quad pack CAMM missiles, but we didn't go down that route at the time. They are adding another 24 sea captor cells starting 2026 I'm assuming those aren't quad pack or we would have more missiles than a flight 3 Arleigh Burke. Been reading up 👍
Why Burke did not fire Tomahawk MST for offensive purpose?
I'm not even one minute in, but i can safely say that the type 45 doesn't stand a chance.
Should have waited till the end. US 5" gun vs a British 4.5" Gun which has 25% higher rate of fire, 25% heavier shells AND a 15% greater muzzle velocity.
Curious about how submarines affect the battles.
Cap, you have shephered DCS into being a decent surface/air naval sim.. like the game Harpoon of old
Out of curiosity, is there anyway you can get famous canceled projects, for example the xb70 or the x47 in the game? If so, is there a way you can put them in a simulation of three types; when they were brand new (like the xb70 in the 70s), then 20 years later, then modern day. We can see if the call to cancel the program was the right decision and would it be relevant in the modern day.
Finally, in naval battles why not model submarines? Even if you don’t have them in the game couldn’t you simulate the missiles, especially when doing fleets and strike groups there is at least one sub?
... I hate it Cap, when you make mummy and daddy fight.
Do you have a FREMM model? French or Italian.
And could you do a US version mock up like with the 6 gen jets?