@@LeekBrimah PRN means as needed. You basically fill in for other PTs. Curious to know why you think PTs should make 100k. Should all PTs or just those PTs who are willing to work in settings that can result in 100k of pay?
@@LeekBrimah Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, that's not the case with any job, including PT. Hopefully this video sheds some light on the income expectations of physical therapists, especially for people who are considering PT like yourself. Thanks for watching!
@@PTProgress hi,i have just got admission in bpt program india. I wish to study dpt in usa after graduating. I know it's to early to plan that, but I wanted to know what's the process for applying. Can you help
I've been a PT for > 20 years in a skilled nursing facility. Our work is so important to the lives of the elderly and sick. If our salaries were based on the value we give to the community, we SHOULD be making $150,000/year. Just like good teachers should be making a lot more than they do. But salaries aren't based on how expensive schooling is, or how hard we have to study, or how smart we are. Our salaries are mostly dependent on what insurance companies reimburse us. If Medicare pays poorly, then rehab companies can't afford to pay PTs a high salary. I say Medicare because that's the primary insurance in a SNF setting. My salary is decent and I was finally able to purchase a home in California after years and years of saving, but our salaries should be higher based on the value of our work. If insurance companies paid more, then PTs salaries would be higher. Before I graduated and got my PT license, Medicare was paying skilled nursing facilities a lot of money. Therapists were all driving BMWs and Mercedes. Then Medicare changed their payment system and it shocked the industry. All of a sudden therapists were quitting their because they were getting steep salary cuts. Until insurance companies decide to reimburse at higher rates, I don't think wages are going to increase much.
@@HeyItsAvi90 That was a really long time ago, like 1998. Even assistants were raking in the dough. If I remember correctly, assistants were making about 75K per year. In 2022, that'd be like 130K. And I'm sure PTs and OTs were making significantly more. They all had expensive cars and sometimes worked only 4 hours/day. That's why Medicare had to make changes. They couldn't afford to pay all that money out.
I can’t agree with you more. This guy TIm and a lot of PTs have it backwards. If you read my long post I did a few days ago, I think you would agree. It’s absolutely ridiculous about how much we make. It’s embarrassing
I want to start off by saying this is going to be a long post but with straight facts and I hope you all read. I’ve been a PT for 10+ years in NY. I am in an outpatient setting making 100k in a hospital. I have multiple recognized certifications that PT in the outpatient world would know such as Maitland,McKenzie and Mulligan along with OCS and CSCS. These are the facts - PT are underpaid. Plain and simple. The crap we have to go through and deal with patients and insurance is ridiculous. Some or even most Patients expect to come to PT getting a massage, personal training session and modalities at end. What do these ppl think we know?? It’s embarrassing if I told ppl my salary and needing to explain what actually PT do. -PT know more about the musculoskeletal system than most of all physicians besides surgeons. There is a study that was on this and most MD schools take about 2-4 weeks of anatomy throughout their time in school. We are not respected by patients nor the medically community as much as I would personally like. For example: when someone has back pain, they immediately go to the chiropractor. They are not even recognized in the AMA the last time I checked. However, they have great lobbying system and the fact is that PTs do not. They are able to order images and how come we can’t? We honestly should be able to since we are the musculoskeletal experts. know the PT in the military can do this as well as giving out pain medications. Which I feel makes the profession more respected if we can do this across all states. -Tim you mentioned the amount of hours MD do or patients they sees. I understand your point but we spend more time individually with them. Let’s say at least 30mins to 1 hour and MDs are seeing patients maybe at most 30mins but usually 15mins? We just more face time with them while juggling 3-4patients an hour or even more. So we hear all their “complaints”. -APTA is absolutely worthless. I remember my school wanting us to pay to be a member every year when I was a student. The organization has done nothing to advocate for the profession. There is no advertising and marketing to let the ppl know what we actually know or do. Meanwhile you see a billboard or commercial about chiropractics all the time. The organization stresses over continuing education and getting a speciality from the ABPTS but meanwhile this doesn’t really do anything financially much. The test itself is 3k and if you’re a APTA member it’s like what $1800 to take a the test. I have the OCS certification and I have to retake this every 10years too. Come on man. It’s all a money maker and I get that research is important but this is not right. It’s a didactic exam! Anyone can pass a didactic exam and it doesn’t mean you know what you’re doing when treating! We all know ppl who can get A’s on didactic exams but when you do a practical or clinically, they can’t apply it. My final take: - I know having a doctorate “doesn’t mean much” compared to a masters/bachelors in physical therapy. However, I do advocate all new graduates to ask for more money! Why? Because why did APTA in the first place make it into a Doctorate or even a master? What’s the damn point? ApTA require all schools now to have DPT degrees and therefore there is NOTHING in for return. Just REALLY Think about that. There is no justification. Come on man. At least advocate for your field on higher pay. Don’t sell yourself short. The reason is simply what Tim even said himself here. Pretty much indicating “this is how it is and that you need to work more to make more”. I wholeheartedly disagree and it shouldn’t be like that. I feel at this time a starting PT should be making 85-90k. Me being in 10years in and the certifications I do have, working 8 hours day, I think $120k is fair. The more years you have you should be bump up more automatically every 5 years. (I will explain below) - Now listen, the main problem is not getting the salary you want, it’s the reimbursement the insurance is giving your employers. They can’t give you the salary you want until then reimbursement rate is higher! And this goes through why the APTA is worthless because they don’t advocate anything and therefore no salary goes up for anyone; new or old grads. - In hospital settings, once you maxed out your senior level, there should be a automatic bump to your salary after 10years, then automatic bump 15 years and automatic bump again at 20 years. Every 5 years. Whether or not you have a certification, your time and experience spent there should grant you that. I understand the only certifications they can give out for a extra bump is a speciality from the ABPTS. But they should rate or set credits in certifications they deem are most important to get another raise. Like if you get 8 credits you will get another raise. For example if you got a FAAompt certification, that’s 5 credits, and then you took a mulligan certification that’s 3 credits. Add those 2, you got yourself another raise. I know this post has been long but I honestly hope you all read this and everyone start advocating this PT profession whether you have your doctorate or not so we can ALL benefit from the underpaid salary and disrespect we get from insurance company and finally let ppl in the world know why we are needed and not think of us as personal trainers and etc.
I LOVE YOUR REBUTTAL. PTs are even looked down upon by people in the medical profession. Doctors don't even have a good understanding of what PTs do. Oh , you have pain ? Go to PT. Even if the pain is caused by a botched surgery or something outside what PTs can do like Diabetic Neuropathy ! WTF is Pain Management Doctors for ?! Truth is , PTs are underappreciated AND underpaid !
@@jordanjoseph2139 , I feel your pain. And honestly , all you said is true. Why would any sane person choose a profession that has a long study time and expensive tuition fee and not expect a Return Of Investment - for both time and money ?! Aren't every other profession like engineering , medicine , law , etc , even the less legitimate profession like Chiropractic , expect a good return of investment ?! It is beyond me how anyone thinks that Physical Therapists should make less than $120 K after garnering a 3 years experience. No one wants to be paid a paltry sum honestly. 😒🙄
3rd year SPT and I know 100% won’t be taking a home health job. I want to work with PTs and become a better PT first opposed to making money right away. Life’s not all about money I would rather work with a population I want and be able to learn from other PTs opposed to making more money and not having the fun I know I could have.
I think because of the demand, and how competitive is to get into PT school, the average should be a little higher (maybe $95k/year) and always be adjusted with inflation.
Honestly the competition to get into PT school should not and will not ever result in a higher salary for PTs. Also, PTs can make 95k a year in fields that are in demand (travel PT and Home Health for example). The law of supply and demand (along with the invisible hand of the insurance companies who pay PTs) dictates the going rate for PTs. If people (and including insurance companies) are willing and able to pay higher prices for PT, then PT clinic owners will want to recruit and retain PTs who can provide those services and competition will drive the wages up to meet a competitive and sustainable level for the business owner and the PT. I’m not sure if any industry that ties wage increases to inflation - it’s a nice thought, but I think a better idea is to control inflation instead of printing money and let competition drive the balance between supply and demand in the workforce.
Love the advice about actually putting in the work. When I was first applying to PT school I never actually considered the ROI of the degree. Now, as a 3rd year student in my final 8 weeks I am more focused on the financial gains that can be made as a PT. I plan on working either Acute Care/SNF/IPR and then pick up a PRN on Saturdays to supplement my income. I doubt I’ll make six figures coming out of school but I’m going to shoot to make as much as possible.
The key Seth is to pay off student debt. You can find jobs with LRP programs but more importantly pay off debt no matter setting through discipline and living below your means.
6 clients per day, 80 usd per 60 minutes session (which results in 8-10 hours days), 5 days per week, 4 weeks of holidays, amounts to 105k per year, minus studio rent, expenses, VAT, taxes, etc you’re looking at about 40k net per year.
You offer some solid advice. I am a PM&R physician and frequent the PT forums on SDN often. The discussions there don't even touch on the topics to the extent you talk about them here. Kudos to you, Tim.
Hi Steve! Thanks for stopping by and thank you for taking the time to share the nice comment. I appreciate it and if you're ever on the forums again and think one of my videos would help someone, please share it with them :) I think it would mean a lot coming from someone like yourself.
actually many argue that PTs should make more because of how hard PT school is. there are 2 med student dropouts who switched to pt school and they said that this is the biggest shitshow of their life. in addition, pt school in my school is 10x harder than the ot program. basically, we have med students struggling in pt school and this shows how difficult acquiring this degree really is.
Hi! If you have a minute do you mind telling me the biggest differences from your experience with home health versus other settings? I’m still an undergrad but still very curious.
@@Km-xi2gh home health your main goal is educating them on how to move safely within their home, find out if they need any guard rails installed, teach proper use of assistive devices and give them some very basic exercises to do in their home. Whereas in outpatient there’s a lot more problem solving a lot more manual therapy and a lot more variety/ higher level patients. It’s a great job if you don’t take on a hefty amount of debt in the process.
I have decided to pursue travel PT as a new grad due to the financial benefits associated with it and also the ease of trying different settings when I want to see which setting I prefer long-term. I don’t believe with the debt I currently have that it’s truly realistic to pay it all off within a reasonable amount of time at a private clinic. To me, only nonprofit (federal loan forgiveness plan) or travel/home health/SNF/PRN make the most sense until I’m in a more financially stable position to pursue other settings.
Considered the PT route a few (maybe 10) years ago, but the doctorate scared me off, and now thinking about it again. Does make me a little nervous to think about launching down the path of starting undergrad and then the doctorate at 40 years old, but your video did give a good amount of insight for me to consider.
I really hope you didn’t make this video for the likes or. subscribers. Or hope this would go viral for the wrong reasons. PTs should get paid more sorry if you don’t like what I am saying. Well I don’t care if you do! Can you say it with me ? PTs deserve more!
No problem in making more money Jay. Do plumbers deserve more? Do teachers DESERVE more? Why is it that PTs DESERVE more? Does everybody DESERVE more? Should we work harder for more money or just get more because we “deserve” it. And what makes someone deserve more pay? Time and effort in school? Long work days? Title of “doctor”? Teachers and plumbers and restaurant workers work long days too. Or is it because the PT chose to go into a lot of school debt for their profession? Is it because they have a different title than these other workers? I am genuinely interested in hearing why you think PTs (or anyone) inherently deserves more money. I believe that if you want to make more money and your profession is limiting you, then you’ll need to find creative ways within or outside of your profession to satisfy the desire to make more money. You can’t expect to make more just because you think you “deserve it”.
I'm a PTA. I making 55-65k a year after 3-4years experience working in outpatient. I became very skilled and now do travel work. With the contracts I've got lined up, I should make 80-100k now.
I’m a 2nd yr DPT student and I think I would love home health! I’ve definitely heard the advice to wait a bit out of school before practicing in that environment due to the mentorship aspect. I was able to shadow a HH PTA for a week before school but I know it would look much different from the PTs perspective. Any advice/resources on how to move forward with a HH career early out of PT school?
You can call a HH company and ask if you can shadow one of the PTs for a day. Honestly, I think if you saw a HH PT in action for a day, you'd understand the general flow of a typical in home treatment. Most HH agencies set you up with someone as a mentor the first week or so. Then I'd recommend making some documentation reference pages or download the HH templates I have. That should be all you need to get started in HH!
It’s not that much different doing HH visits as a PT vs a PTA, you just have the responsibility of doing the eval and D/C and the supervisory visits and more of the documentation. If you have good PTAs to work with they will be a big help to you, don’t be afraid to learn from them.
For recent grades some companies have comprehensive training before you start working independently. So 3-4 weeks of learning the software and 1 month of shadowing HH with a PT. Some HH agencies will hire new grads. Best of luck!
I disagree with the recommendation that a new grad PT should take a travel job right out of school ESPECIALLY IF the PT is expecting any allowances or leniency regarding production requirements and time for documentation and is looking for mentor-ship experience. Travel PT too often costs the employer the very same high, high rate regardless of the PT's level of experience because the contract rates are typically set before the candidate is presented. If you plan on being a travel PT right out of school, definitely bring your A game, but also be a professional, recognize that you are playing the game for the money, and not the mentor-ship experience, so don't complain about the workload or the extra time you will be putting in on your own clock. Experience DOES matter, so depending on how you learn, you could be setting yourself up for stunting your personal and professional growth by 'going solo' as a travel PT if it is just for the money. I always look closely at all our candidates' resumes, and can tell a lot about the quality of a therapist depending on the jobs they take right out of school. Whether you admit it or not, new grads often lack a true understanding of the work experience, and need a chance to "get their feet wet" while setting reasonable expectations of their employer. Good luck! The world needs more amazing PT's. Just don't settle for getting less what you really need (which isn't always money) or giving any less than the world and your patients' deserve. I recommend finding a position at a well-staffed teaching facility, for at least 1-2 years, then launch yourself to the great horizon and let the travel adventures begin!
I graduated and went straight into travel PT. Got my first contract at one of the top 5 hospitals in the nation started at $1700 a week and by the 3rd contract renewal, they had me at over $2000 per week. Which equates to six figures annually. That's AFTER taxes. They also offered a mentorship program for new grads. It was a phenomenal experience.
@@jimboniusmaximus6018 Glad you had a good experience in the hospital setting and had the benefit of mentorship also. There is definitely a big difference in what gets charged for medical care in a hospital setting compared to an outpatient private practice setting, which is the setting from which my viewpoint originates. I am sure that your salary was just a fraction of what was charged in that setting for care. As a private practice owner, our billing and reimbursements are pretty cut and dry and straightforward. If you inquire about the billing practices in the hospital setting, I am sure the profit margin is HUGE, and if you can even find out exactly what got charged for your visits, you would probably be appalled at the cost of healthcare.
PTs should make more money. This has zero to do with what other professionals make but 100% of what we ARE worth. If the advise from this video held true then we wouldn't have a traveling 100k job, the reimbursement rate is what drives the salaries. If we don't fight for more reimbursement then ALL 100k jobs will disappear. The title of this video should be advocate now to increase reimbursement rates and demand higher salaries at the same time demand for higher education brick and mortar to stop acting as capitalists as they are the reason the debt is unsustainable .
I'm PT here in Brazil, and here so poorly paid , that some services pay amounts equivalent to university monthly payment. I intend to get my green card next year and try my license in your country, because here in Brazil it is inhumane and the cost of living only increases.
What about director roll in management or ownership in an outpatient setting? Also pays well but again you have to put the work in. Things in life are earned not given, some generations struggle grasping that concept. Good vid though. 👍🏼
Hey Tim, thanks for the really informative video! What are your thoughts regarding whether earning certain specializations in PT such as Sports can lead to higher paying opportunities in the field. Thank you so much
Hey Tim. It would mean alot to hear your thoughts on the trajectory of the PTA profession. Is it going to be phased out due to the newest policy changes on reimbursement? Sorry I know this isn't about the topic of your video. I just value your opinion as a current physical therapist assistant student wondering if there is a real future for me here or not.
Hi Dawson - thanks for your comment. I think PTAs will be around in 10 years, but insurance companies will continue to try to decrease rates and I’m sure they’ll target PTAs. That means potentially lower pay for PTAs or even difficulty finding jobs if clinics decide not to hire PTAs because of lower reimbursement. I still think the job will be around and that it’s a good career overall.
2nd year PT now...Ive done HH rotation already, some homes are terrible, some not so bad. As soon as I graduate ... Im dead set on home health because of the pay and do prn in outpatient. Your rubrics for documentation is definitely a purchase I will be making. Any advice on non-profit org vs private HH service? Thanks
Sounds like a good plan! Not really - I would aim to find a place that pays per patient and has the volume to keep me as busy as I wanted. Some HH PTs strictly worked weekends which paid more at my agency and then did fill in during the week at outpatient PT clinics, which is a great setup too!
According to a survey by the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, a physical therapist's salary averages $88,880 annually, with only 10 percent of PTs earning less than $60,390, and the highest-earning upwards of $123,350.
@JC-jh4fi probably depends on where you live and the demand for a dpt...I live in texas and have found countless opportunities with an $90k - $110k salary as a dpt
Just out of curiosity. Is it still possible to make 6 figures in home health after the implementation of PDGM? I heard there were major salary cuts across the board and tons of layoffs. Thanks! Your videos really help bring clarity for us future physical therapists entering the field.
I work in home health as a new grad and love it! only problem is I make a low starting salary due to the company I work with being considered "oupatient on wheels" and billing medicare B. Any advice for me to get my salary up? Change to a different company that bills medicare part A?
That’s what I’d recommend - Med part A pays a lot more so you’ll make a lot more :) I think you should try a traditional HH job on the weekend since they pay more for weekend work 👍
Do you have any videos or recommendations on working in HH? I just finished my PT program and am getting ready for the NPTE this spring. I did primarily inpatient rehab and outpatient ortho settings for my rotations but I’m definitely interested in working HH. I’m just worried about having zero previous exposure to that setting before trying to apply and work in it.
Any insight on the earning potential of pursuing a dual degree like DPT-MPH (3 years) or DPT-PhD? Would these programs be worth it / lead to a higher salary long term
Hey man, I've been watching a lot of your videos and I'm in kind of a similar spot that you were. My degree is accounting and I'm currently working as an auditor, but I am starting to think that accounting/finance and business in general are not the right careers for me. I'm really considering pt school(at an affordable state school, don't worry lol) and was wondering, what was your experience in finance before pt school? Do you feel like it prepared you to be successful in pt in any way? With your business background, have you ever considered opening your own practice? Thanks for the videos, they are full of good info.
You’re out here struggling to make CZcams content to earn money on top of practicing as a DPT *and* working as a CFP, yet you are still licking the system’s boots advocating that y’all don’t deserve to make good money after a required nearly decade of schooling and training for just the DPT… wild.
What do you mean? Are you suggesting that DPTs are entitled to a certain income because of the number of years they spend in school? Also, not sure what you mean by struggling. I enjoy the work I do in and out of the clinic.
Hi, can I have your honest advice? What do you think I get in to pt, dpt school(6years) in my age 40? I probably on and off graduate around 50..! Is it not really realistic for career in the future? Thank you!
Hi Tim! I came across your channel a week ago and wanted to see what your thoughts were on DPT vs MBA. I was accepted into UNTHSC, it's a state school in Texas. I would still need to take loans out to pay for the program but I don't have any undergraduate loans. Do you think it's worth still attending the DPT program considering the debt to salary ratio. Or attempting an MBA that is less expensive compared to DPT.
Congrats! State schools in TX are usually really affordable! I think it could still be worth going there (see the other PT school videos too) As for an MBA vs DPT - you may make more long term with an MBA working in finance, but that’s a matter of career choice and a different question entirely! I have an article on the blog about getting an MBA and if it’s worth it. That may be helpful as you figure things out. Congrats on the acceptance!
I'm an undergraduate student of physical therapy. In my country, we have bachelor's degree of physical therapy which is about six years including five years of academic and clinical experience and one year of mandatory intership. When we are graduated, we earn the degree of physical therapy specialist. So, is DPT is a higher degree than what we will earn. One more question, Which degree is equivalent to mine in the US? Hope I find an answer. Thanks in advance :)
Sir I am from India studying bachelor of physical therapy in 3 nd year . so for master of physical therapy which is the best universities in USA , what exam I have to give and what is the procedure for addmission and how can I get scholarship ??
Masters no longer exists in Physical Therapy. You will have to do DPT. Look for universities offering post professional programs for international students (typically 2yrs long). Chances of getting scholarships is negligible even with amazing grades/CV as universities are private and love your fee payment.
Yes, you can purchase just the assessment templates here: ptprogress.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/physical-therapy-documentation-assessment-templates
Heya.. could you pls say me if doctor of physical therapy (from usa) is it valid in india...can I do doctor of physical therapy in abroad after bsc in clinical nutrition and dietetics...and cam use the dr?
Nope, a physical therapist cannot call themselves Doctors... only MDs or DOs can. The ones who do are lying to their patients and are scamming the system
@@billr5842 what is the basis of your comment? Are you aware what the term “doctor” means? Do you know whether under the American judiciary system, it is legal or illegal for doctors of physical therapy to use the prefix “Dr”?
Even though home health looks like it pays higher but when you compare base salary at the end you’ll realize it doesn’t. if you calculate your "total hours" worked, risks, stress, its not worth it.
@@Moe-bg1or, what people don't realize is that Home Health salary should be divided into 3 parts - the drive to the location , the actual patient encounter , and the documentation done after. A lot of patients complain that their PT is more focused on the documentation or " computer " than them so most PTs do document AFTER. Then there's the loss of drive and schedule time with patients who agree to the schedule but are not home when the PT gets there for reasons other than the 3 given by Medicare for Home Bound status. A lot of the patients are out with friends or family for leisure ! And your pay gets cut because you are not reimbursed when patients are not home. 😒🙄
What do you think? How much should a DPT make?
Should make 100k+ and what is prn? I’m an undergrad currently
@@LeekBrimah PRN means as needed. You basically fill in for other PTs. Curious to know why you think PTs should make 100k. Should all PTs or just those PTs who are willing to work in settings that can result in 100k of pay?
@@PTProgress I think all of them should make that because of the amount of schooling + volunteer work you have to go through to get the degree in PT
@@LeekBrimah Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, that's not the case with any job, including PT. Hopefully this video sheds some light on the income expectations of physical therapists, especially for people who are considering PT like yourself. Thanks for watching!
@@PTProgress hi,i have just got admission in bpt program india. I wish to study dpt in usa after graduating. I know it's to early to plan that, but I wanted to know what's the process for applying. Can you help
I've been a PT for > 20 years in a skilled nursing facility. Our work is so important to the lives of the elderly and sick. If our salaries were based on the value we give to the community, we SHOULD be making $150,000/year. Just like good teachers should be making a lot more than they do. But salaries aren't based on how expensive schooling is, or how hard we have to study, or how smart we are. Our salaries are mostly dependent on what insurance companies reimburse us. If Medicare pays poorly, then rehab companies can't afford to pay PTs a high salary. I say Medicare because that's the primary insurance in a SNF setting. My salary is decent and I was finally able to purchase a home in California after years and years of saving, but our salaries should be higher based on the value of our work. If insurance companies paid more, then PTs salaries would be higher. Before I graduated and got my PT license, Medicare was paying skilled nursing facilities a lot of money. Therapists were all driving BMWs and Mercedes. Then Medicare changed their payment system and it shocked the industry. All of a sudden therapists were quitting their because they were getting steep salary cuts. Until insurance companies decide to reimburse at higher rates, I don't think wages are going to increase much.
In a SNF setting with your experience you should be making over 6 figures easily.
How much were therapist making prior to the medicare change at SNF?
@@HeyItsAvi90 That was a really long time ago, like 1998. Even assistants were raking in the dough. If I remember correctly, assistants were making about 75K per year. In 2022, that'd be like 130K. And I'm sure PTs and OTs were making significantly more. They all had expensive cars and sometimes worked only 4 hours/day. That's why Medicare had to make changes. They couldn't afford to pay all that money out.
@@jerryb.7021 Dam... Now they require a doctorates degree paying less than a hundred
I can’t agree with you more. This guy TIm and a lot of PTs have it backwards. If you read my long post I did a few days ago, I think you would agree. It’s absolutely ridiculous about how much we make. It’s embarrassing
I want to start off by saying this is going to be a long post but with straight facts and I hope you all read.
I’ve been a PT for 10+ years in NY. I am in an outpatient setting making 100k in a hospital. I have multiple recognized certifications that PT in the outpatient world would know such as Maitland,McKenzie and Mulligan along with OCS and CSCS.
These are the facts
- PT are underpaid. Plain and simple. The crap we have to go through and deal with patients and insurance is ridiculous. Some or even most Patients expect to come to PT getting a massage, personal training session and modalities at end. What do these ppl think we know?? It’s embarrassing if I told ppl my salary and needing to explain what actually PT do.
-PT know more about the musculoskeletal system than most of all physicians besides surgeons. There is a study that was on this and most MD schools take about 2-4 weeks of anatomy throughout their time in school. We are not respected by patients nor the medically community as much as I would personally like. For example: when someone has back pain, they immediately go to the chiropractor. They are not even recognized in the AMA the last time I checked. However, they have great lobbying system and the fact is that PTs do not. They are able to order images and how come we can’t? We honestly should be able to since we are the musculoskeletal experts. know the PT in the military can do this as well as giving out pain medications. Which I feel makes the profession more respected if we can do this across all states.
-Tim you mentioned the amount of hours MD do or patients they sees. I understand your point but we spend more time individually with them. Let’s say at least 30mins to 1 hour and MDs are seeing patients maybe at most 30mins but usually 15mins? We just more face time with them while juggling 3-4patients an hour or even more. So we hear all their “complaints”.
-APTA is absolutely worthless. I remember my school wanting us to pay to be a member every year when I was a student. The organization has done nothing to advocate for the profession. There is no advertising and marketing to let the ppl know what we actually know or do. Meanwhile you see a billboard or commercial about chiropractics all the time. The organization stresses over continuing education and getting a speciality from the ABPTS but meanwhile this doesn’t really do anything financially much. The test itself is 3k and if you’re a APTA member it’s like what $1800 to take a the test. I have the OCS certification and I have to retake this every 10years too. Come on man. It’s all a money maker and I get that research is important but this is not right. It’s a didactic exam! Anyone can pass a didactic exam and it doesn’t mean you know what you’re doing when treating! We all know ppl who can get A’s on didactic exams but when you do a practical or clinically, they can’t apply it.
My final take:
- I know having a doctorate “doesn’t mean much” compared to a masters/bachelors in physical therapy. However, I do advocate all new graduates to ask for more money! Why? Because why did APTA in the first place make it into a Doctorate or even a master? What’s the damn point? ApTA require all schools now to have DPT degrees and therefore there is NOTHING in for return. Just REALLY Think about that. There is no justification. Come on man. At least advocate for your field on higher pay. Don’t sell yourself short. The reason is simply what Tim even said himself here. Pretty much indicating “this is how it is and that you need to work more to make more”. I wholeheartedly disagree and it shouldn’t be like that. I feel at this time a starting PT should be making 85-90k. Me being in 10years in and the certifications I do have, working 8 hours day, I think $120k is fair. The more years you have you should be bump up more automatically every 5 years. (I will explain below)
- Now listen, the main problem is not getting the salary you want, it’s the reimbursement the insurance is giving your employers. They can’t give you the salary you want until then reimbursement rate is higher! And this goes through why the APTA is worthless because they don’t advocate anything and therefore no salary goes up for anyone; new or old grads.
- In hospital settings, once you maxed out your senior level, there should be a automatic bump to your salary after 10years, then automatic bump 15 years and automatic bump again at 20 years. Every 5 years. Whether or not you have a certification, your time and experience spent there should grant you that. I understand the only certifications they can give out for a extra bump is a speciality from the ABPTS. But they should rate or set credits in certifications they deem are most important to get another raise. Like if you get 8 credits you will get another raise. For example if you got a FAAompt certification, that’s 5 credits, and then you took a mulligan certification that’s 3 credits. Add those 2, you got yourself another raise.
I know this post has been long but I honestly hope you all read this and everyone start advocating this PT profession whether you have your doctorate or not so we can ALL benefit from the underpaid salary and disrespect we get from insurance company and finally let ppl in the world know why we are needed and not think of us as personal trainers and etc.
I LOVE YOUR REBUTTAL. PTs are even looked down upon by people in the medical profession. Doctors don't even have a good understanding of what PTs do. Oh , you have pain ? Go to PT. Even if the pain is caused by a botched surgery or something outside what PTs can do like Diabetic Neuropathy ! WTF is Pain Management Doctors for ?! Truth is , PTs are underappreciated AND underpaid !
@@JC-jh4fi thank you for taking time to read it. And I definitely agree with you as well.
@@jordanjoseph2139 , I feel your pain. And honestly , all you said is true. Why would any sane person choose a profession that has a long study time and expensive tuition fee and not expect a Return Of Investment - for both time and money ?! Aren't every other profession like engineering , medicine , law , etc , even the less legitimate profession like Chiropractic , expect a good return of investment ?! It is beyond me how anyone thinks that Physical Therapists should make less than $120 K after garnering a 3 years experience. No one wants to be paid a paltry sum honestly. 😒🙄
I'm a Home Health PTA with a BS and your video was great! I'm contemplating returning to school for DPT and your videos are very helpful!
3rd year SPT and I know 100% won’t be taking a home health job. I want to work with PTs and become a better PT first opposed to making money right away. Life’s not all about money I would rather work with a population I want and be able to learn from other PTs opposed to making more money and not having the fun I know I could have.
100% have heard that advice about avoiding home health and travel as a new grad
I think because of the demand, and how competitive is to get into PT school, the average should be a little higher (maybe $95k/year) and always be adjusted with inflation.
Honestly the competition to get into PT school should not and will not ever result in a higher salary for PTs. Also, PTs can make 95k a year in fields that are in demand (travel PT and Home Health for example). The law of supply and demand (along with the invisible hand of the insurance companies who pay PTs) dictates the going rate for PTs. If people (and including insurance companies) are willing and able to pay higher prices for PT, then PT clinic owners will want to recruit and retain PTs who can provide those services and competition will drive the wages up to meet a competitive and sustainable level for the business owner and the PT. I’m not sure if any industry that ties wage increases to inflation - it’s a nice thought, but I think a better idea is to control inflation instead of printing money and let competition drive the balance between supply and demand in the workforce.
Ty 4 being so honest!!!
Love the advice about actually putting in the work. When I was first applying to PT school I never actually considered the ROI of the degree. Now, as a 3rd year student in my final 8 weeks I am more focused on the financial gains that can be made as a PT. I plan on working either Acute Care/SNF/IPR and then pick up a PRN on Saturdays to supplement my income. I doubt I’ll make six figures coming out of school but I’m going to shoot to make as much as possible.
The key Seth is to pay off student debt. You can find jobs with LRP programs but more importantly pay off debt no matter setting through discipline and living below your means.
Any medical professional with a doctorate degree deserves AT LEAST $115,000 a year
Would love to hear why you think $115k is the minimum all medical professionals with a doctorate should make.
6 clients per day, 80 usd per 60 minutes session (which results in 8-10 hours days), 5 days per week, 4 weeks of holidays, amounts to 105k per year, minus studio rent, expenses, VAT, taxes, etc you’re looking at about 40k net per year.
You offer some solid advice. I am a PM&R physician and frequent the PT forums on SDN often. The discussions there don't even touch on the topics to the extent you talk about them here. Kudos to you, Tim.
Hi Steve! Thanks for stopping by and thank you for taking the time to share the nice comment. I appreciate it and if you're ever on the forums again and think one of my videos would help someone, please share it with them :) I think it would mean a lot coming from someone like yourself.
Being a DPT doesn’t pay. Get MD, PA, or even pharmacist because they pay more. Or be a PTA--less student loans, more money.
actually many argue that PTs should make more because of how hard PT school is. there are 2 med student dropouts who switched to pt school and they said that this is the biggest shitshow of their life. in addition, pt school in my school is 10x harder than the ot program. basically, we have med students struggling in pt school and this shows how difficult acquiring this degree really is.
Yeah, I kept hearing “don’t do home health as a new grad”. Then I did a home health clinic in my second year.... it’s the easiest setting!!!!
Hi! If you have a minute do you mind telling me the biggest differences from your experience with home health versus other settings? I’m still an undergrad but still very curious.
@@Km-xi2gh home health your main goal is educating them on how to move safely within their home, find out if they need any guard rails installed, teach proper use of assistive devices and give them some very basic exercises to do in their home. Whereas in outpatient there’s a lot more problem solving a lot more manual therapy and a lot more variety/ higher level patients. It’s a great job if you don’t take on a hefty amount of debt in the process.
@@timsalkowski9776 how is the pay for inpatient setting compared to an outpatient setting in your experience?
I have decided to pursue travel PT as a new grad due to the financial benefits associated with it and also the ease of trying different settings when I want to see which setting I prefer long-term. I don’t believe with the debt I currently have that it’s truly realistic to pay it all off within a reasonable amount of time at a private clinic. To me, only nonprofit (federal loan forgiveness plan) or travel/home health/SNF/PRN make the most sense until I’m in a more financially stable position to pursue other settings.
Considered the PT route a few (maybe 10) years ago, but the doctorate scared me off, and now thinking about it again. Does make me a little nervous to think about launching down the path of starting undergrad and then the doctorate at 40 years old, but your video did give a good amount of insight for me to consider.
Insight not to pursue DPT at all!
You can make a lot of money for less - Dental Hygienist ; Radiation Therapist ; X ray and MRI technician or something
I really hope you didn’t make this video for the likes or. subscribers. Or hope this would go viral for the wrong reasons. PTs should get paid more sorry if you don’t like what I am saying. Well I don’t care if you do!
Can you say it with me ? PTs deserve more!
No problem in making more money Jay. Do plumbers deserve more? Do teachers DESERVE more? Why is it that PTs DESERVE more? Does everybody DESERVE more? Should we work harder for more money or just get more because we “deserve” it. And what makes someone deserve more pay? Time and effort in school? Long work days? Title of “doctor”? Teachers and plumbers and restaurant workers work long days too. Or is it because the PT chose to go into a lot of school debt for their profession? Is it because they have a different title than these other workers? I am genuinely interested in hearing why you think PTs (or anyone) inherently deserves more money. I believe that if you want to make more money and your profession is limiting you, then you’ll need to find creative ways within or outside of your profession to satisfy the desire to make more money. You can’t expect to make more just because you think you “deserve it”.
I'm a PTA. I making 55-65k a year after 3-4years experience working in outpatient. I became very skilled and now do travel work. With the contracts I've got lined up, I should make 80-100k now.
Thank you very much for all of ur advices etc it really helped me think more about this profession, i look forward for more helpful advice
In Southern California , u can make 125k easy in nursing homes with a side gig of home health.
Thank you for this info!!
One of the best things I did was go to CSU Northridge instead of usc. Saved thousands on student loans
I’m a 2nd yr DPT student and I think I would love home health! I’ve definitely heard the advice to wait a bit out of school before practicing in that environment due to the mentorship aspect. I was able to shadow a HH PTA for a week before school but I know it would look much different from the PTs perspective. Any advice/resources on how to move forward with a HH career early out of PT school?
You can call a HH company and ask if you can shadow one of the PTs for a day. Honestly, I think if you saw a HH PT in action for a day, you'd understand the general flow of a typical in home treatment. Most HH agencies set you up with someone as a mentor the first week or so. Then I'd recommend making some documentation reference pages or download the HH templates I have. That should be all you need to get started in HH!
It’s not that much different doing HH visits as a PT vs a PTA, you just have the responsibility of doing the eval and D/C and the supervisory visits and more of the documentation. If you have good PTAs to work with they will be a big help to you, don’t be afraid to learn from them.
@@beverlyhelmphysicaltherapi7994 Absolutely! I’ve worked with great PTAs!
For recent grades some companies have comprehensive training before you start working independently. So 3-4 weeks of learning the software and 1 month of shadowing HH with a PT. Some HH agencies will hire new grads. Best of luck!
Personally known of PTAs in a SNF in California are paid the same with DPTs or experienced PTs in Georgia. If not more.
I disagree with the recommendation that a new grad PT should take a travel job right out of school ESPECIALLY IF the PT is expecting any allowances or leniency regarding production requirements and time for documentation and is looking for mentor-ship experience. Travel PT too often costs the employer the very same high, high rate regardless of the PT's level of experience because the contract rates are typically set before the candidate is presented. If you plan on being a travel PT right out of school, definitely bring your A game, but also be a professional, recognize that you are playing the game for the money, and not the mentor-ship experience, so don't complain about the workload or the extra time you will be putting in on your own clock. Experience DOES matter, so depending on how you learn, you could be setting yourself up for stunting your personal and professional growth by 'going solo' as a travel PT if it is just for the money. I always look closely at all our candidates' resumes, and can tell a lot about the quality of a therapist depending on the jobs they take right out of school. Whether you admit it or not, new grads often lack a true understanding of the work experience, and need a chance to "get their feet wet" while setting reasonable expectations of their employer. Good luck! The world needs more amazing PT's. Just don't settle for getting less what you really need (which isn't always money) or giving any less than the world and your patients' deserve. I recommend finding a position at a well-staffed teaching facility, for at least 1-2 years, then launch yourself to the great horizon and let the travel adventures begin!
I graduated and went straight into travel PT. Got my first contract at one of the top 5 hospitals in the nation started at $1700 a week and by the 3rd contract renewal, they had me at over $2000 per week. Which equates to six figures annually. That's AFTER taxes. They also offered a mentorship program for new grads. It was a phenomenal experience.
@@jimboniusmaximus6018 Glad you had a good experience in the hospital setting and had the benefit of mentorship also. There is definitely a big difference in what gets charged for medical care in a hospital setting compared to an outpatient private practice setting, which is the setting from which my viewpoint originates. I am sure that your salary was just a fraction of what was charged in that setting for care. As a private practice owner, our billing and reimbursements are pretty cut and dry and straightforward. If you inquire about the billing practices in the hospital setting, I am sure the profit margin is HUGE, and if you can even find out exactly what got charged for your visits, you would probably be appalled at the cost of healthcare.
PTs should make more money. This has zero to do with what other professionals make but 100% of what we ARE worth.
If the advise from this video held true then we wouldn't have a traveling 100k job, the reimbursement rate is what drives the salaries. If we don't fight for more reimbursement then ALL 100k jobs will disappear. The title of this video should be advocate now to increase reimbursement rates and demand higher salaries at the same time demand for higher education brick and mortar to stop acting as capitalists as they are the reason the debt is unsustainable .
I'm PT here in Brazil, and here so poorly paid , that some services pay amounts equivalent to university monthly payment. I intend to get my green card next year and try my license in your country, because here in Brazil it is inhumane and the cost of living only increases.
What about director roll in management or ownership in an outpatient setting? Also pays well but again you have to put the work in. Things in life are earned not given, some generations struggle grasping that concept. Good vid though. 👍🏼
Hey Tim, thanks for the really informative video! What are your thoughts regarding whether earning certain specializations in PT such as Sports can lead to higher paying opportunities in the field. Thank you so much
Hey Tim. It would mean alot to hear your thoughts on the trajectory of the PTA profession. Is it going to be phased out due to the newest policy changes on reimbursement?
Sorry I know this isn't about the topic of your video. I just value your opinion as a current physical therapist assistant student wondering if there is a real future for me here or not.
Hi Dawson - thanks for your comment. I think PTAs will be around in 10 years, but insurance companies will continue to try to decrease rates and I’m sure they’ll target PTAs. That means potentially lower pay for PTAs or even difficulty finding jobs if clinics decide not to hire PTAs because of lower reimbursement. I still think the job will be around and that it’s a good career overall.
2nd year PT now...Ive done HH rotation already, some homes are terrible, some not so bad. As soon as I graduate ... Im dead set on home health because of the pay and do prn in outpatient. Your rubrics for documentation is definitely a purchase I will be making. Any advice on non-profit org vs private HH service? Thanks
Sounds like a good plan! Not really - I would aim to find a place that pays per patient and has the volume to keep me as busy as I wanted. Some HH PTs strictly worked weekends which paid more at my agency and then did fill in during the week at outpatient PT clinics, which is a great setup too!
@@PTProgress Great info-Thank you!
According to a survey by the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, a physical therapist's salary averages $88,880 annually, with only 10 percent of PTs earning less than $60,390, and the highest-earning upwards of $123,350.
I wish that were true. I don't know where they got their data from but it's definitely NOT the case in Texas.
@JC-jh4fi probably depends on where you live and the demand for a dpt...I live in texas and have found countless opportunities with an $90k - $110k salary as a dpt
Out of all the languages Tim speaks, he spoke facts💯
Just out of curiosity. Is it still possible to make 6 figures in home health after the implementation of PDGM? I heard there were major salary cuts across the board and tons of layoffs. Thanks! Your videos really help bring clarity for us future physical therapists entering the field.
Yes, you can make 100k in home health. It depends on the location, company, productivity, your willingness to work extra hours, etc.
I work in home health as a new grad and love it! only problem is I make a low starting salary due to the company I work with being considered "oupatient on wheels" and billing medicare B. Any advice for me to get my salary up? Change to a different company that bills medicare part A?
That’s what I’d recommend - Med part A pays a lot more so you’ll make a lot more :) I think you should try a traditional HH job on the weekend since they pay more for weekend work 👍
Do you have any videos or recommendations on working in HH? I just finished my PT program and am getting ready for the NPTE this spring. I did primarily inpatient rehab and outpatient ortho settings for my rotations but I’m definitely interested in working HH. I’m just worried about having zero previous exposure to that setting before trying to apply and work in it.
Go for it. I went into home health right out of PTA school
Any insight on the earning potential of pursuing a dual degree like DPT-MPH (3 years) or DPT-PhD? Would these programs be worth it / lead to a higher salary long term
Hey man, I've been watching a lot of your videos and I'm in kind of a similar spot that you were. My degree is accounting and I'm currently working as an auditor, but I am starting to think that accounting/finance and business in general are not the right careers for me. I'm really considering pt school(at an affordable state school, don't worry lol) and was wondering, what was your experience in finance before pt school? Do you feel like it prepared you to be successful in pt in any way? With your business background, have you ever considered opening your own practice? Thanks for the videos, they are full of good info.
You’re out here struggling to make CZcams content to earn money on top of practicing as a DPT *and* working as a CFP, yet you are still licking the system’s boots advocating that y’all don’t deserve to make good money after a required nearly decade of schooling and training for just the DPT… wild.
What do you mean? Are you suggesting that DPTs are entitled to a certain income because of the number of years they spend in school? Also, not sure what you mean by struggling. I enjoy the work I do in and out of the clinic.
yep. agree
People like him are the problem lol. They will boot lick until they die haha
Hi, can I have your honest advice? What do you think I get in to pt, dpt school(6years) in my age 40? I probably on and off graduate around 50..! Is it not really realistic for career in the future? Thank you!
Hi Tim! I came across your channel a week ago and wanted to see what your thoughts were on DPT vs MBA. I was accepted into UNTHSC, it's a state school in Texas. I would still need to take loans out to pay for the program but I don't have any undergraduate loans. Do you think it's worth still attending the DPT program considering the debt to salary ratio. Or attempting an MBA that is less expensive compared to DPT.
Congrats! State schools in TX are usually really affordable! I think it could still be worth going there (see the other PT school videos too) As for an MBA vs DPT - you may make more long term with an MBA working in finance, but that’s a matter of career choice and a different question entirely! I have an article on the blog about getting an MBA and if it’s worth it. That may be helpful as you figure things out. Congrats on the acceptance!
I'm an undergraduate student of physical therapy. In my country, we have bachelor's degree of physical therapy which is about six years including five years of academic and clinical experience and one year of mandatory intership. When we are graduated, we earn the degree of physical therapy specialist. So, is DPT is a higher degree than what we will earn. One more question, Which degree is equivalent to mine in the US?
Hope I find an answer.
Thanks in advance :)
I have a quick question, what does it mean when the program is CAPTE developing. Is this type of program worth applying for or attending.
It means it’s not yet accredited by CAPTE.
So you recommended to pursue OP better than DPT ??
On average how many clients do you see in a day?
Sir
I am from India studying bachelor of physical therapy in 3 nd year . so for master of physical therapy which is the best universities in USA , what exam I have to give and what is the procedure for addmission and how can I get scholarship ??
Masters no longer exists in Physical Therapy. You will have to do DPT. Look for universities offering post professional programs for international students (typically 2yrs long). Chances of getting scholarships is negligible even with amazing grades/CV as universities are private and love your fee payment.
I’m a PTA. Is it any chance to purchase just the visit notes? I don’t need the rest like evaluation and POC notes.
Yes, you can purchase just the assessment templates here: ptprogress.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/physical-therapy-documentation-assessment-templates
@@PTProgress thanks.
Heya.. could you pls say me if doctor of physical therapy (from usa) is it valid in india...can I do doctor of physical therapy in abroad after bsc in clinical nutrition and dietetics...and cam use the dr?
Nope, a physical therapist cannot call themselves Doctors... only MDs or DOs can. The ones who do are lying to their patients and are scamming the system
@@billr5842 what is the basis of your comment? Are you aware what the term “doctor” means? Do you know whether under the American judiciary system, it is legal or illegal for doctors of physical therapy to use the prefix “Dr”?
Do you prefer working in home health for the extra cash? Even if its less appealing work?
To get rid of $130k of debt, I absolutely preferred it ;)
Even though home health looks like it pays higher but when you compare base salary at the end you’ll realize it doesn’t. if you calculate your "total hours" worked, risks, stress, its not worth it.
@@Moe-bg1or, what people don't realize is that Home Health salary should be divided into 3 parts - the drive to the location , the actual patient encounter , and the documentation done after. A lot of patients complain that their PT is more focused on the documentation or " computer " than them so most PTs do document AFTER. Then there's the loss of drive and schedule time with patients who agree to the schedule but are not home when the PT gets there for reasons other than the 3 given by Medicare for Home Bound status. A lot of the patients are out with friends or family for leisure ! And your pay gets cut because you are not reimbursed when patients are not home. 😒🙄
Is the salary for Physical Therapist rising throughout the years or has it always been around what you said?
It hasn’t been increasing much at all for new grads and the average has been pretty stale due to stagnant reimbursement rates.
Salary has been decreasing due to decreased Medicare reimbursement rates.
Facts 🙌💯
88k dollar per year salary converted into our currency ( in India ) is like even more than average MBBS doctor😐
PT? ha... it is enough for bachlor degree..
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Where can i get doctorate degree ??? Is it available in the Philippines?!
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