Why The Red Wedding Is TIMELESS
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- čas přidán 2. 03. 2024
- The Red Wedding is a Timeless scene written by George RR Martin. Of course the reason why it is timeless is because of how it is written. But how was it written in a way that it garners so much attention and praise. You might think it is because of the shock of a couple major characters being killed off, and that’s part of it, but that’s not the full story.
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George just relies on reality. It's a complete shock to our system because other writers are too scared to tell you what this world is really like.
Her last internal words were fucking heartbreaking. “No, don’t cut my hair, Ned loves my hair.”😢
"Sansa has her hair." -- Littlefinger probably
Even when Oberyn Martel was killed by the mountain, George RR Martin really subverted the situation there. We all expected Tyrion to get away with another trial by combat, only to have George fuck with us again 😂😂😂😂
The funny thing is that with all their deaths (Ned, Robb, Oberyn) I was shocked each time
@@AnakinGozie77 ReReading the series its easy to see why. Like Robb for instance in book 2. You get the feeling for most of it that he's got them on the ropes. Then Renly and Stannis happens. But you still dont see robb losing. Really it all started to go down hill when he Trusted Theon. Ironic that Theon betrayed the only Stark he at that point had said treated him like a brother.
Grr doesn't like to be predicted, ned & jon snow death was so so much shocking no1 ever expected it, bc ppl like that always get saved in books.
To think the red wedding is such an archetypal event that magically intuned beings sensed it before it happened
My second reading of the series, when I got to the House of the Undying visions, the part with the dead bodies and a man with a wolf for a head sitting upon a throne in the back gave me goosebumps, GRRM is a literal god among men...at least when he is actually releasing books that is.
GRRM: *writes one of the most complex and beloved fantasy series of all time arguably rivaling Tolkien despite the massive difference in tone and content*
Also GRRM for some reason: “I think I should stop writing for a while!”
Jingle Bells has a song as well. Blood on the maidens thigh one
I’m about to start my second read through. Every sentence he writes is important. I don’t know how he does it but it probably has something to do with a long time commitment.
@@britt581what
The fool of Dragonstone
It’s been many years, but from what I can remember of reading the Catelyn chapter: I thought the Freys would just embarrass the Starks instead. Or take them prisoner as established with Jaime (too important to let die), or force Robb to divorce his wife.
I think this is why Catelyn’s suspicions then work against the reader so much. It’s a sort of subversion of a subversion, where not only Ned dies, but the Starks lose all their power, and their rebellion is ended. Jaime being taken prisoner, as well as being released, and Drogo’s “death” at the hands of Miri Mazdur condition the reader to expect death as only one severe option among many. The same with Jaime losing his hand, or Janos Slynt being sent to the wall.
Honestly, even though I think the show wasn’t as good at that point, that’s why I think Tommen’s ultimate fate in the show is actually really good. It’s in line with those “crazy, but” events in the rest of the series.
agreed on tommen, although i busted out laughing when i saw it out of pure shock lol
@@mori666 oh yeah no for sure, i did as well
The craziest thing about this book series is that sometimes I’m all about Starks and sometimes the Lannisters. I thought about it and Tywins plan actually saved lives rather than continue the war. I never thought I would be a Lannister supporter. I’m a turncloak. 😂
The reason George RR Martin writes good twists is they are twists that you should have seen coming but were expecting the story to 'follow the rules'.
It's what the show abandoned when it overtook the books, they started doing twists to be twists rather than building upon the previous work in a logical fashion.
It's also the reason GRRM is so slow a writer, everything has to connect and build logically on each other. Keeping all that consistent as the logic builds means rewrites, it means thinking about the minutia of every detail for every new page. And as the story builds the consequences and things to consider grow exponentially.
Something that always really jarred me about Roose Bolton was the way he always spoke in a whisper.
The mental visage of him striding up behind Robb, plunging his sword through his heart from behind, then leaning into him as Robb fell back into him and further down his sword whilst whispering “Jaime Lannister sends his regards.” into Robb’s ear will stay with me and haunt my nightmares forever.
i havent read game of thrones, only watched the show but hearing that last part on catelyns end is making me consider reading.
I read them and I can assure you the actual writing and prose in all the ASOIAF books are quality. Truly remarkable! That's why George RR Martin hasn't actually finished the final two books and continues to "work on them" as he puts it.
They are worth reading for Euron Greyjoy alone.
look into "The broken man" and "the north remembers" speeches. Its Martin at his finest and has me convinced he's one of the best authors in human history. These short speeches that only take about 5-10 minutes to read / listen to have so much meaning and subtext crammed into them its incredible. He has a way of doing something every now and then where takes a seemingly benign scene, and all of a sudden your reading some passage or dialogue that pretty much sums up all the main story beats ( and hints at tons of hidden ones ). In the show Pod sings Jenny of Old Stones. Watch Indeepgeeks video on that. This alone will convince you to get the first book. After that you'll need no more convincing. Happy reading!
They’re way better than the series
When I saw that scene, it was so impactful I remember the exact circumstances under which I was watching it. I was stunned.
I run ASOIAF RPG and my players did a reverse Red Wedding scenario last session. It was dark. They didnt just get the men drunk . They poisoned them with Nightshade. And then as they extracted their hostage lord the sworn swords went about the occupying camp and executed all fighting men. And they pulled it all off without violating guest right. Eat your heart out Tywin.
No other piece of fiction triggered so much emotion in me.
It really hits the sweet spot between being shocking and being built up to. You see the Northerners having a good time for the first time in what felt like ages but there was always a feeling of unease and dread, until that came punching through with full force. It was shocking but I at least never felt betrayed, like I would have, if it just came out of the blue. Despite not really seeing it coming consciously, there immediately was feeling that they had it coming, which must have been there unconsciously, absolutely amazing.
The conclusiveness is great too imo, especially at a time where people are actively rooting for their favorite characters to stay dead because death has been cheapened so much in the media with revivals, multiverses and other that it feels more and more meaningless.
Possibly an unpopular opinion but for that reason I prefer it without Lady Stoneheart because it compromises the conclusiveness to some degree but the book version has other advantages of course. In the end I am in love with both.
It is hard to emphasize enough just how much first time readers/watchers who know nothing, really aren't thinking about a potential betrayal. After experiencing the Red Wedding it is hard not to see it as obvious, but for first time reader/watchers it really is not. There is some foreshadowing for the Red Wedding, but there is just as much foreshadowing for a future where the Red Wedding does not happen. The future is discussed, plans are laid, Robb is going to have a child, Robb is deciding how to deal with the iron born ravaging the north, Robb needs to still win the war in the south, what new avenues open up if they now have the Frey men back on their side, Robb discusses getting Jon to return from the wall in exchange for more men taking the black. All of this paints a clear picture of a future without the Red Wedding, and for a story where seemingly the "good" side is always getting betrayed and losing at the last possible moment, there finally seems to be a hopeful future, which will still be a hard road full of death, but one where maybe the "good" characters finally start to mount a counter attack. This hopeful future is so appealing after all of this despair, that people often ignore the small clues to the contrary, and personally I remember reading for the first time over a decade ago Catelyn's concerns throughout the wedding and dismissing them, hoping the story quickly gets into the detailed planning of this counter attack with the help of the Freys.
I think they should have stuck with the book's version of Rob's marriage.
All the show battles that are regarded as lower tier were protagonists v antagonists. The most loved battles have loved characters on both sides and so ur main concern is their survival and the outcome becomes secondary
its beena while since ive read it but to my recolection, Arya's story provided the pretext. The red wedding is an incredible bit of writing but a lot of the important details get lost in the drama. the show just cuts to credits where the book leaves you truly feeling the tragedy.
They messed it up in the TV show. Because they never introduced the law of hospitality properly. In the books they hammer those rules on you at every occasion so when it happens it’s truly shocking.
Your right but missed the point. Emphasizing the laws of guest right doesn't make it more surprising or make the act worse. Regardless of whatever cultural taboos are in play here the Freys invited thousands to a wedding under false pretense and then killed them all. Who cares about guest right I'm never trusting those mother fuckers again. The point of occasionally referencing guest right is twofold.
1. Reverse foreshadowing: By bringing it up every so often it sticks in the readers mind and observant readers will catch on and think, "well something like this story I've been told is going to happen."
2. Promise of Retribution: By outlining that violating this right is seen as so vile even the gods will seek to punish you. We KNOW vengeance is coming.
Love your channel! Amazing content bro, I'm such a huge fan of the lore, theories etc. I've read everything but I must say that I've pretty much lost faith on TWOW/😮💨 but i hope I'm wrong, i mention this because i love the way you broke it down in your other video. The Red wedding is forever haunting. Anyways, great video :)
I appreciate you checking it out. I have my doubts about Winds, but it doesn’t ruin the world George has created imo.
@@DCharles also amazing video on Jaime, definitely one of my favorite characters by far. Yeah i also agree, its not ruined, i always catch myself re-reading and finding little bits
I think winds of winter will get released. It’s a dream of spring that we will never see. 😢
The camera shots always give me clues as to what's about to happen, that, and of course the music in the scene. The first clue to Catelyn was the music being played which as I have come to research was music in favor of the Lannister's, and Catelyn was wondering why was this music being played by her supposed ally Walder Frey. For me it was the closing of the doors by Frey guards, the other was the eye contact between Catelyn and Roose Bolton, with Roose looking down at his left arm and Catelyn raising the cuff sleeve to discover Roose was wearing chainmail, which would only be used if going into battle. A very chilling scene, " The Red Wedding" I was not happy about the events of "The Red Wedding" 😡
I genuinely wish that I hadn't known about what was going to happen so that the gut punch would be harder. I had this massive sense of pure dread, just knowing what was coming.
The starks needed a Theon the hungry wolf or a cregon stark for the war of the five kings. The signs was there honor die with Ned Stark.
Thanks for saying her name correctly. Kudos Ser.
Who, Catelyn?
@@DCharles Absolutely.
I felt Robb Stark would die when he fell in love with the doctor. No respect for the predicament of war.
Oberyn and Jon Snow’s death were way more tragic than the Red Wedding in my opinion. I was honestly counting down the days to Robb’s death, he became so annoying and 10000% had it coming. I didn’t understand his character after he hooked up with Talisa. Not only was their “love story” very weak, she was a big mistake on top of that and so was everything he did after that as well. It’s like screwing her made him stupid. Before that he was making all the right calls (aside from not personally parlaying with Frey and sending Catlyn). And it’s like Tywin said, what’s the difference between killing a thousand men in the battlefield and a thousand at the dinner table? Absolutely nothing. Murder is murder it doesn’t matter how “honorably” you kill someone. I hated Cat and I didn’t care for Talisa so I really honestly didn’t care they died, I was only sad for all the Northmen who were slaughtered because of Robb making dumb decisions and for Sansa and Arya lol
NOOOOOOOOO DONT REMIND ME AGAIN DELETE THIS TITLE AND VIDEO AND YOUR ACCOUNT 😢
But silver lining, Catelyn did die.
👀
Quinn’s ideas? That u?
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it's a ASOIAF loreposting channel@@DCharles
@@hob333 no, I’m familiar with the channel. I don’t understand the comment.
@@DCharles You sound very similar to him, though not exactly the same