AMD Strix Point/ Strix Halo - A Revolution For Handheld + Laptop Gaming?
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2024
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I want a revolution in low end/ mainstream desktop PC gaming. My wallet would appreciate.
Your wallet would appreciate you more if you had a promotion. Mo money bruh.
We did have a low end revolution when Nvidia called a low end card a 4060.
@@skybuilder23you mean the RTX 4050😂😂😂
Handheld doesn’t mean low end though
@@skybuilder23 RTX 4060 was a disappointment
A apu with the power of a 4070??? Thats fcking crazy
Will be significantly held back by memory bandwidth so most of the potential will be wasted as are many APUs right now and those are significantly less powerful.
@@WereCatStudioits still impressive , put it in a handheld it will blow the rog ally away lol
@@WereCatStudio No it would be at 4070 level, did you even see the video?
I will be damned if it reaches 1070 performance, as a handheld that level of performance will make many not so old aaa game run at 1080p high settings possible, but there is too little information regarding power consumption which might potentially hindrance performance on battery.
@@sklynexdmy guy can’t watch it at all. 😂 It wouldn’t really run on a rog ally due to power, maybe the low power Strix halo might end up on a rog ally.
Im glad APUs have finally got to the point Id hope they would 10ish years ago when I built my kid a A10-7850k computer for her first build, it played what she played at the time, but definitely didnt have the relative power that these new ones have. These gaming mini Pcs and handheld PCs couldnt exist without these APUs
I wish they could create a handheld device that on lower mode, which is like a level of 3050, but when docked, it unlocks full power and full cooler to reach 4060 performance. That would be a killer
One day bro one day it must happen!😭🙌🏼🔥
Power efficiency needs to improve a bit more first. Although, a 3050 (or Series S) level of performance using 30W or less, isn't leaps and bounds away right now (around a 80% increase over the Z1 Extreme APU in the Ally). It will likely happen in a couple of gens, just not quite yet!
My guess is also by that point mobile ARM SoC's will just about have caught up to X86 in overall performance. Which will undoubtedly make things even more interesting, when your smartphone could also play AAA PC games natively (under a compatibility layer) at a very simular level and likewise plug straight into your TV.
We are definitely on the brink of entering into a new era, where handheld devices can play modern AAA games in native 1080p at reasonable framerates, either on the go or sat in front of your TV set. Plus, they'll also have the added ability to be able to double up as a fully functional computer, whenever needed.
BTW, as for increasing performance via a dock, it can kinda be done right now by using a eGPU (at least on the Windows handhelds). Although an enclosure + dedicated GPU is just far too expensive to make it a viable option for many people. I guess some company just might come along with a cheaper alternate to it.
I guess there's also the cheaper option of the dock just applying more wattage to the APU. However, the increased internal temps by doing so, could then become a major issue and problem. Plus, any bump up it would give, would only be minor in comparison to an eGPU.
Thinking about it, it's a shame that CrossFire/SLI still isn't around because I'm pretty sure that a fairly cheap solution could probably be made by using a very simular tactic to them (internal GPU + a GPU inside the dock with the same level of performance, with both working together in tandem).
Even the LP Strix Halo is still 55W TDP. We'd probably need to wait until Zen6/7 and RDNA5/6 until we see some like Strix Halo but for handhelds. Unless if NVIDIA try, but I still don't those NVIDIA WoA rumors are true
I was thinking this same thing, or even the other way around. The high power chip that runs in docked mode and can go into reduced power mode by declocking and run in portable mode.
Maybe not these chips but the next ones being able to replace the Series X and Series S with a single device.
Steam Deck 2 has the chance to do a proper upgrade
But it won't.
I bet the Deck 2 will have the Strix Point Halo low profile. 3050 class power which is good enough for a handheld with a 800p-1080p screen running at 90-120hz.
@@Unicornpirate never underestimate Nintendos ability to disappoint when it comes to performance. I'm sure it will run their games at 30-60 fps but all bets are off for 3rd party titles.
@@automator24 he didn’t mention Nintendo.
@@mitchjames9350 yup you are right my friend. For some reason my brain replaced steam deck with switch :p
I could see cool things with ai coprocessors in games, like dynamic dialogue or more intelligent ai in rts games and similar things.
Optimus hasn't been much of an issue since 10 years at least (when windows 8.1 or 10 started to ship its own official switchable graphics api).
And since a few years with advanced optimus, you often don't even have to pay the small cpu performance hit even if you game on the internal screen.
Wow this is amazing 😮
I'm interested in the zen5 16c with 40cu APU, which probably will perform like 4070m but if the price is above of its equivalent gaming laptop, I'll assembly a minigamingPC.
AMD had this tech since the days of the PS4, why they haven't made it for compact and portable PCs is beyond comprehension.
it wasn't easy. the rog ally it's a massive step on the right direction Sam fro the steamdeck. back then... the tech wasn't ready
@@unkown34x33 I completely disagree. ROG Ally, along with other portable consoles, have an APU with a massive GPU bottleneck, especially compared to the Steam Deck, which is better balanced. Strix Point/Halo comes to fix this, now THAT'S actually a step in the right direction. To add insult to injury, the ROG Ally comes with a crappy proprietary connector, exclusively for way overpriced external GPUs by Asus, instead of allowing any eGPU.
hoping steam deck 2 could use something like this, it would sell me on it
Next year will be a blast for handheld windows gaming. MacBook Air thin laptops with ps5 graphics. Just drooling
I wish they would stick some hbm on package!
Ryzen chiplets belong in desktop: IOD die murders battery life.
Kraken however is looking good ❤️
What i actually want is a gaming focused APU, which is basically a GPU+SSD first device with a strapped-on CPU, just like how the PS5 and XSX works.
It may very well be a game changer for Handhelds which focuses entirely on gaming.
But will it come bundled with Halo MCC? /s
I jist want an APU with similar TDP limits to the PS5 and series x.
A desktop class APU would be my next pc build if they pulled it off.
LP model in Steam Deck 2, high end model in Steam console.
Do we know the target wattage for the Strix Halo LP?
What I like to know is, will they work together with GPU’s? A cpu helps a GPU, but the limit is the GPU, but will the new Ryzen chips increase the fps in games? Something like SLI between cpu and gpu? That would be awesome!!!
It needs to low tdp in order to be on handheld
I think this 40CU APU won't remain only in laptops. I expect desktop variant to appear later.
For a handheld, efficiency should be the priority. i dont want my device running at more than 30w with little improvements to performance while draining the battery like crazy.
current handhelds already go above 30W, but the real revolution will be the performance when you enable the 15-20W limits.
@@mariuspuiu955515W will probably be the limit Valve would accept for a Steam Deck 2. If Strix Point doesn't offer substantial improvement at that wattage I doubt that they use it for a SD successor.
Strix Halo is a game changer for Gaming Laptop & ITX SFFPCs. Although Strix Halo is 55+W TDP, so probably too high power for Handhelds
No it's not too much most handhelds go up to 40 watts
@@markel3353 The lowest tier Strix Halo with 256b bus is supposedly 55W TDP, so PPT would be 74W! Even the LP Strix Halo with 128b bus is supposedly 45W TDP, so PPT would be 61W! Actual power consumption can sometimes be higher than PPT. Someone might still use Strix Halo in a handheld, but it would be on the larger side and have terrible battery life
These products seem to have a promising outlook. We have some cool tech to look forward to that could possibly be more affordable.
Day 1 buy whichever handheld gets it
I would much rather see apus at the same performance level as we currently have but with lower power draw and not awful efficiency curves
this. Make these chips more efficient at lower TDP's and let AI upscaling and frame generation make games look pretty and smooth.
Its sounds like the PS5 pro APU, but with teb equivalent upgrade in the CPU also.
The only option for LP seems like a misstep at 128bit bus. Memory bandwidth and is the real bottlneck it seems like with these rather than power for a handheld. Of course CUs take power but... seems like a mistake based on everyone's testing with steamdeck tweaking.
It is a lot less relevant for lp because it has a much bigger cache than the steam deck or strix point. it has 32mb for gpu only and the 32mb of the ccd is probably unified. So he effective memory bandwith will be alot higher. As far as im aware the cache of the 7840u gpu is only 4mb.
@@maikschindler197 that's a good point that I completely spaced on.
AMD could implement infinite cache.
"I'm not sure what AI will do in the PC space" - cmon, so many applications have announced AI integration. the first ones will deal with text, video, sound and image generation/enhancements then with PC power management, security, facial recognition, etc. the on-device software development is just starting, but in 2 years it will be huge part of the market.
i wished the console makers would make handheld consoles with eGPU docks, but you can just buy a 5800X3D and gtx 1660 super equivalant APU today with PCI4 x4 external connectivity. Thats enough for a desktop rtx 4070 not to be bottlenecked much at 4k output. Two of those devices are the GPD MAX 2 2024 edition and GPD WIN 4 2024.
I see no future for desktop gaming pcs when they will release the next gen which can have pcie 4 x8 external connectivity.
Steam deck 2 will be crazy
on par with a 4070 laptop GPU but at what wattage?
since it is a laptop APU, it should be at around 120W for the package, with top boost limits of 140W depending on the laptop config. beyond that you are probably better off with a dGPU so you can split the chip hot spots and cooling into two sections.
Strix and Strix Halo is the kind of product AMD has been hoping to make ever since they bought ATI. They bought ATI so they could beef up the graphics in their CPUs but only now is their R&D and technology good enough to really do it.
In other words. U are holding a rx6800xt in your hands. I will still be impressed if they can get at least non-xt 6800 numbers. My 6800 could over clock to a speck of the xt and still remain “extremely” efficient.
that's crazy
They need to make a apu on par with the 4090 for the PS6
Nah by 2027 it should be better than that
Hope there's a desktop version, would make budget GPU's a thing of the past
This is what I want. A no GPU ITX SFFPC build in a 2L case that can play AAA games at high settings would be crazy.
Basically what this means, within the the next two years, we'll have paper thin gaming laptops incoming.
Will this only be for OEMs to put in mobile devices, or will I eventually be able to buy a Strix Point chip to put in a ITX mobo?
I guess I should say "Strix Halo", not "Strix Point".
Strix Halo, even the 20CU variant, looks like it's gonna be way too high power for handhelds, considering these same handhelds can barely deal with 7840U/8840U APUs
Yep, could be. Rumours and speculation say it could require somewher around 30-55W to get the most from out of the 20CU LP Strix Halo (likely 45W). Which is just beyond what is suitable for a handheld PC. Well that's unless you want to have just 1-1½ hours of battery life and it also doubling up as a toaster. It looks like that is meant more for the lower-end APU only laptops & netbooks, rather than the PC handhelds. It's the 16CU Strix Point that looks more in-line when it comes to PC Handhelds. Which should still give a reasonable boost up from the Z1 Extreme APU's found in the Ally, Go ect.
However, I dare say that at least one of the PC Handheld manufacturers, will probably attempt to use the 20CU Halo in a expensive $1,000+ PC handheld (probably Ayaneo since they just love to pump out every conceivable form of handheld possible).
@@fafski1199 it depends on how efficient the APU is when limited to 15-20W.
if it's not as expensive as the damn Nvidia graphics, I'll take it!
idk why it takes 120 watts for something Apple does with like 20.
that's for the smaller SOCs. for example, the 16 core M3 Max can do 50-55W on the CPU when stressed and 30-40W for the iGPU (and if you add the media engine the total power draw goes above 100W).
i would say 120W (TDP, we don't know actual numbers yet) for the top AMD APU is very good, especially for something that is still on 4nm.
Steam Deck 2 is gonna be obscene
top end strix is probably more like a 4060ti
Seeing 4070 as comparison makes me laugh.
Be prepared for the PS7 to be portable !!!
Ok, I want this in my laptop. I hope AMD can make it at a decent price. Getting rid of the laptop gpu would be great. I also hate optimus.
I wont care until this works its way into a steam deck 2.0
I second that, Alex, optimus or hybrid graphics is just a terrible architecture and it's time to put it behind our backs for good.
There will be a time when AMD ends up using HMB3+ or newer memory with their APU's. WHY? Because they can get rid of the L3 cache completely and use HBM3+ instead. IT has the same latency at DDR5. Looking at AIDA64 information for L3 its like 15ns. That's the same speed as HBM3+. YES, original HBM was about 100ns which is rather slow in comparison. But newer iterations are much much faster. So now instead of needing actual ram, the HBM3+ can be used for both ram and L3 cache, changing the landscape of computing. The bandwidth is insane, so it works for GPU's, and it can also work for storage for CPU's, and its fast enough to be used for CACHE. it changes everything.
The only problem with hbm is that it is really expensive, That is because unlike normal ddr which you connect with copper traces hbm is connectet via silicon to the hbm memory controller. And that costs a lot. It will only really be a consideration for really hogh end chips where price doesnt matter much
You’re wrong because HBM is insanely expensive and kills the point of APU affordability. They don’t use HBM on their high end consumer GPU’s.
@@ZackSNetwork who says its expensive. Steve from dumbass nexus? That kids video about hbm was fucking cringe.
Maybe in 5 years at the earliest. HBM is dead for the consumer market
Hopefully it will play Minecraft ok
👏👏👏👏👏
Nothing will happen. Games will just increase their requirements. These channels have been saying the same thing for every apu release. Still none of the apu is able to beat a series s or even 1650.
Guaranteed to be overpriced, lol
Halo would be for a set top box/mini PC. Like for instance a Xbox/Mini PC hybrid...
Xbox? Lol there is no Xbox mini PC hybrid lmao wtf. The Strix Halo will be great for those who don't want a discrete GPU in ultra small form factor builds/HTPC's or laptops
@@Unicornpirate Microsoft is trying to merge the Xbox console with a Windows PC. There is very little difference between a Xbox and a PC. The first Xbox was just a custom PC.
There is even a possibility that Microsoft could put full windows 12 on the current Xbox Series consoles. They would have the ability to switch between Console and PC modes just like the Steam Deck does.
I think AI is going to be extremely important for future computing/energy conservation. Right now with AMD AFMF (ai frame gen) it already allows gaming on the rog ally at much lower power levels for extensive battery life. as this technology improves we'll have much less use for power hungry tech when AI can fill that gap.
NPU may be more important than GPU for next xbox, considering the Microsoft's AI PC plan.
APUs/SoCs with unified RAM is like or not r the wave of the future even with the most powerful graphics cores we see today once MCM chip packaging with 3D stacking and interconnects become more standardized and affordable. Memory specifically will most definitely evolve to much more faster to what we see today as it is still the biggest bottleneck and it will approach and get close to speeds and bandwidth of the on chip SRAM cache. What Apple shows with the Mx chips is what we will ultimately see in the future PCs and consoles chips as it makes most sense from all perspectives. Actually right now the most efficient performance per watt "console" r Apple devices with the Mx chips also thx to their unified one chip SoC/APU memory design.
SRAM like performance will not happen for a very very long time it's simply not possible (read up on memory hierarchy and how SRAM works) what Apple is using is simply normal LPDDR5X but implemented with a very wide bus in form of many channels (8 for Max and 16 for Ultra)
I call BS. I just can't imagine them getting anywhere near 4070 or even a 4060 in gaming.
The comparison is to the laptop variants of these GPUs
Why is that Nvidia the reference for AMD? I mean, don't AMD has it's own graphics card to compare? On second thought no one bought it so... Nevermind!
People are absolutely over exaggerating Strix Halo real world performance. The current top end APU on the desktop is on par with a GTX 1060. So expecting a laptop or even pocket PC to match a desktop RTX 4070 is delusional as hell. Just like all APU’s it will be limited by its shared memory bandwidth and thermals on a single chip that is also mobile.
You do realize that 1060 class apu is just 12 CUs? Strix halo will go up to 40
@@FOREST10PL Doesn't matter!! A mobile RTX 4070 GPU looks to be almost on par to it's desktop equivalent, at least on paper. However, back in reality it's performance in games is often below that of a desktop RTX 4060. Laptop and APU GPU variants are always confided and restricted by a lower powerdraw, a lower bandwidth, using shared memory, using unified cache (in APU's) and then on top of that they have often been underclocked and undervolted to save on battery life.
Always drop down your expectations by two steps, when it comes to laptop/mobile APU's and GPU's.
At best that 40CU Halo GPU will perform like a desktop 4060 and at worse like a 3060.
Also, in all likelihood it's GPU performance will become a mute factor, anyway. Since it'll likely be paired together with a more powerful dedicated laptop GPU like a 5070 or 5080 in the laptops that it's destined for. Just like most of this gen AMD mobile APU's did, in the mid & high tier laptops. It's CPU will get used, however it's GPU in most cases will go unused, since that additional dedicated GPU will be more powerful and will end up taking over all of the GPU grunt.
I also wouldn't expect it to come cheap. Just like the higher end Phoenix APU's this gen (7840H & 7940HS), which where only to be found in laptops that where priced $1,200 and above.
APU's might be great when it comes to power efficiency and saving space. However they aren't great value, when they are compared to a dedicated GPU+CPU solution and they never live upto thier dedicated counterparts.
im not a native english speaker but i always agitated by native english speakers who uses their own english term erratically which always lead to a MISLEADING notions. which i always deem as an act to MANIPULATE.
revolution is GOING BACK TO SQUARE ONE with something OPPOSITE to the previous. thats why in HISTORY revolution always about replacing one authority with its ENEMY.
the AMD chip STILL uses the same x86 format, still using the same instructions set, still runs on silicons, and STILL uses previous technologies with some IMPROVEMENTS. what do you native engliish speaker usually call that "IMPROVEMENTS"? "look neanderthal becoming humans, its a revolution!".
(really revolution is when you become a zombie)
regarding the APUs, what can be so "exceptional" in gaming graphics performance when its graphics processing still runs on standard DDR memory for VRAM that can only be around 8GB of size, provided you use AT LEAST 24GB or 32GB of RAM?
what would happen when you give an RTX4070 with a mere 8GB of DDR5 of VRAM?
i thought digital foundry are "technical people".
strix point is pointless.
Maybe if AMD used a custom “unified” memory architecture, these products could be even faster and use less power.