Why People Are Leaving The LDS Church
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- čas přidán 27. 10. 2022
- A New Worldview Pulls Away Hearts And Minds
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We would do well by understanding the warnings of the Book of Mormon and the time of Captain Moroni.
Identitarianism and Critical Social Justice are the culprits for so many that leave the Church today, especially younger members.
In the past, it was Church History, "Science", etc, but today it is all about a new worldview spread from the halls of academia and the accounts of social media.
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I'm making my way back to baptism and I can't wait. It is such a feeling of coming home spiritually
Congratulations! That’s awesome!
Hey Jason, that sounds awesome. It would be nice to connect with you. I went through a faith crisis and have worked hard to reconstruct my belief system.
Such great news!
@@Leowinegar sure feel free to reach out
Me too, glad I came back. I needed the time away to realize that this is the true church. Some of us will go through periods of inactivity and it’s ok.
As a father of 3, soon to be 4, young girls and a newly called bishop, I'm so glad I stumbled upon your channel 18 months ago. Thank you for your words on the happenings in the world and in the church, which I feel are always rooted in the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I view you as an important mentor in my life and it's clear by the growth of your channel that many others do too.
Very kind words. Thank you. I'm sure you'll be a great bishop!
I'm glad to hear that bishops are watching this channel. It's like having boots on the ground.
@@ShaunaPloeger Amen!
Great comment. And my husband and I love having four girls. (Ages are soon to be 16, 13.5, 11, 6)
Please 🙏🏻💜🕊️ as a new Bishop tend to the young men they truly need you ! My husband was raised in a divorced home,but he had a step Mom, and his Dad was excommunicated! He was truly hurt and embarrassed that he parents were not living gospel standards!
They had 9 kids in the family and he always starved, they kicked him out, right before he was to graduate from high school and he had to live with a friend, he joined the army and served 4 year's instead of a mission!
This has upset him, all his life that he wasn't able to go, if someone like his Bishop found a member he could stay with and pay rent to for only two months until graduation 🎓, he could of served a mission!
But his Bishop was very young and wasn't sure how to handle his family's circumstances!
My husband has been in many leadership positions in the church and has truly enjoyed serving in the Temple! We're planning on serving a couples mission when we get a little older. We have tried our best to right all the wrongs we have had in our lives and serving in the gospel has been very healing! Sometimes young people need a chance to do the right thing ❗🙏🏻💜🕊️😊🌷
I find living the gospel is more liberating than the alternative lifestyles I have seen others live and promote.
100%. Alternative lifestyles invite self induced heartaches and regrets. Obviously, we aren’t spared from trials by following the Savior, but at least we avoid trials of our own making.
What other life have you lived?
@@jennwelding6281I have learned from other people’s lifestyle choices, including my own children and my friends from high school. As is said, a smart person learns from their mistakes. A wise person learns from other people’s mistakes. God’s commandments are guardrails, not prison bars. Following them to the best of are ability will bless us with peace and the strength to endure life’s inevitable pain, suffering, and challenges. I believe we are on this earth to learn, grow and serve each other. We will experience both joy and sorrow. Savor the joyful experiences and ask for the Lord’s help to be able to endure the painful moments!
This isn't just something in the Church, either. There's a cultural shift against Christianity (and Western Culture marked by Judeo-Christian values) as a whole.
One thing that I found particularly interesting is during the height of the Summer riots of 2020 (marked by BLM and the Floyd incident) I was listening to a number of Police officers who were out on the streets as a counter to some of the protests. A number of them- particularly black officers- said they would start conversations with some of the minority kids who were part of these protests and the story was remarkably similar every time. It would go something along the lines of:
-Officer would start up conversation. Ask them what they were doing/why there were there.
-Kids would start to talk to them. The conversation starts to go somewhere.
-A white member of the protests would interrupt the conversation before it could become engaged in earnest. Would chastise the minority kid for bothering the speak to 'the enemy' and pull them away from the conversation.
Many officers swore this happened numerous times throughout the summer. It was at this point that I began to recognize that pattern of the dissenters. How many times did they go to the Lamanites and the Lamanites didn't actually WANT to fight the Nephites but they 'stirred up their hearts against their brethren'? This is happening even today, where predominantly white leftists/Marxists are USING minorities to stir up trouble against the culture (and institutions) in place for the purpose of destroying them so that they can build something else up in their place. What that thing is, they have no idea. They haven't thought that far ahead, but the tactics remain the same.
"This group wronged you! While we belong to that group, we know better. Follow us and we'll show you how it can be made right! Or we'll MAKE it right!"
They have no intention of helping these people, just using them for their own ends.
Wow, that’s so true.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽Spot on!!
Yes. I live in Minnesota and I have seen old Lutheran and Methodist churches repurposed into art museums, dance studios and breweries. Saddest thing in the world.
What you're seeing is cult-like behavior, trying to shame people into not talking to others and isolating them.
Amen and amen.
Being a member of this church is the BEST part of my life.
Amen!!
Same here. I am happy to be a member of the Church because it represents Christ and is centered around Christ. I have been blessed after joining the Church and I shall never leave. Those who leave will regret it. Davey Jones has no truth and is thus not living the best part of his life. In another year or so, he will be crawling back to the Church and the Church will still welcome him back in. People always return to the true restored Church upon this earth.
Eternity hasn't played out yet. Which kingdom do we want in our lives?
You mean having your head in the sand this way you see nothing
I have a friend who left the church and invites others to leave the church over LGBTQ issues. Over social media she promises love and support for those who leave and denounce the church. She is sincere and believes she is doing good.
I know another pointed the finger at the General Authorities stance on transgenderism, and derided members for their intolerance for drag queens performing for children. Yes, as wild as that sounds, he meant it.
A lot of people in the Great and Spacious Building aren't laughing. They genuinely believe they are doing the right thing, the loving thing, by heaping scorn on the church, the General Authorities, and the members in the name of "acceptance" and "safety".
Sometimes my heart breaks. I have my own struggles in the church. On the one hand it would be nice to know I am not alone, on the other, I won't join the people who leave, not even the ones who left over the same issues I am struggling with. I can see that there is no foundation under the Great and Spacious Building, and it is no business of mine to draw people away in to destruction and despair.
Whatever you are struggling with, God loves you. No matter what, stay on the covenant path, and you will be fine.
Stay strong sister! You are not alone, though it is hard to see others that are in your boat. Jesus knows what you're going through, the thoughts, feelings, questions you may have not just your suffering. He knows all and there is no depth to which you can decend that he cannot reach you from! Watch And Pray!❤🙏
You are not alone! We need to hang on!
It's interesting how former members think they are doing good by attacking the restored gospel. They have been thoroughly deceived by the father of lies himself. Even Korihor thought he was doing good.
Well, while I don't know your specific struggles, just based on the 2 examples you gave I want to share with you a bit of my perspective as a gay member of the Church. I have found consistently that those who purport to be "loving" and "accepting" of LGBT people who then advocate that loving them involves justifying and supporting their poor decisions have expressed derision towards me because I am committed to my covenants and currently live celibate. Time and time again people I've seen who claim to be loving have either tried to tear me down or done their best to convince me that I will never be truly happy until I turn my back on my covenants. While it's true that I have, in rare circumstances, experienced "bigotry" from people who hold more traditional views, without a doubt the most hate I have received was always from those who claimed to be loving and accepting.
I'm not sure if LGBT issues are a struggle for you. But I testify that I am thankful for this gospel, and I am thankful for people in my life who had the courage and love to tell me the truth about doctrine and not lie to me to be "nice". God's plan will work things out in the end, and it's up to me to keep my covenants and strive to follow Him as much as possible. I would be betraying God if I went around encouraging others to leave the church to "live their truth". Loving someone is having the courage to be honest to them in a sensitive but direct way.
Thank you Greg. I feel that you truly have your finger on the pulse of the major issue of today.
Wow this video is so spot on. As twenty-somethings, this has been my and my husband's whole lives these last few years, watching all of our friends and family slowly leave. I pray for our generation.
Take a moment to understand why people are leaving. For me, I found the truth claims to be blatantly problematic and could find no answer beyond “pray about it” or people bearing their testimony at me like I’d never heard everything they said before in my 30 years in the church.
Does this have to do with the idea that you're a victim and lack of self-responsibility? I had tons of incest and child abuse in my family life. I am so much happier when I started taking responsibility for my healing and not seeing myself as a victim. It means so much to me to see myself as a child of God and a survivor not a victim.
❤️🦋
As I was reading what you wrote is just so sad about the abuse, but then to hear what you think and how you are now it’s really what this church is all about. It’s very fulfilling to me to hear how you came out of it and the way you are now. Excellent.
You're a beautiful soul @Mary Gwin.
Wow!! This is EXACTLY what has happened to my sister that has been the strongest member of the LDS church I have ever know!! And YES it started with her daughter being bi-sexual. Blows my mind she believes all the Ideology spreading throughout the world!!
Reminds me of what Alexander Pope wrote:
"Vice is a monster of so frightful mien
As to be hated needs but to be seen;
Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
We first endure, then pity, then embrace"
Yeah Satans Tools!
Blows my mind that people can believe that Joseph Smith, a treasure digger and sexual predator, is a prophet of God. Read the journal of his 14 year old bride. Nobody with an ounce of decency would be okay with this. Yet, Mormons think they are moral and righteous. SICK!
@@capybara39419This has long been one of my favorite quotes.
However, even though someone has left the church, it doesn’t mean that they are embracing their vices.
I had the exact same impression about Nehor when reading Alma, he’s the most influential and relevant Antichrist. He was also the only Antichrist to have an order of priests carry on his doctrine after he died.
He undermined the reality of Christ, repentance and sin because he basically taught that “God would save everyone, so you do you.” Gideon could withstand his doctrine with Christ’s gospel, but Nehor used force to silence and kill Gideon.
When Amlici, of this order, wanted to be king, it concerned Christians and non-Christians alike, because the wickedness and tyranny would subvert their freedom if Amlici enforced his doctrine as king. They voted against him and won, which led Amlici to join the Lamanites and fight God’s people.
Nehor’s gospel is the equity gospel because “everyone should end up in the same place”, and not have their actions be scrutinized. It’s very common for people to take that stance today, even outside Social Justice.
I also can see Amlici’s actions as an example today as some individuals who leave the Church, then join a group just to encourage others to attack the church they just left but can’t leave alone.
I think a more influential antichrista can be found in the Catholic Church starting with the false prophet called the Pope.
Well said Greg. I especially liked the connections between some of the modern secular ideologies and the ideas that drove people away from the gospel in the Book of Mormon. I’m an older millennial and have watched this modern wave affect so many within my family and amongst friends. From my experience, it’s very difficult talking to them about these issues. So much of it comes down to the lenses and frameworks with which they start viewing the world. That process often begins with politics, but eventually gets applied to their views of the Church and the gospel. I’ve seen many leave while expressing their “victimhood” or “oppression” like you said, and glad to finally discover their “true self.”
The identitarian secular philosophies saturating so much of our western society are becoming a form of a religion in and of themselves. Seeking to supplant traditional frameworks. Just look at the tenants of the Unitarian Universalist church and it’s increasing growth in recent years, with simultaneously decreasing growth rates amongst Christian denominations. You add these issues on top of a world calling good evil, and evil good at a level never seen before, and it becomes a challenge to stay if we’re not rooted in Christ. Cell phones, social media, etc. have compounded the adversary’s ability to push people away from the gospel too. Society would call this a violation of privacy, but if a parent has allowed themselves to lose that oversight and has no idea where their child goes for hours every day on their phone, I think they’re making a big mistake. Thanks for articulating so many of these challenges so well. Many are still unaware.
Wonderfully said. The presentation by Greg, and your comment felt like a glimpse into what our family life is now like. I have witnessed this exact "movement" hit my five children during the last decade - even my formerly "stalwart" ones. It's been both perplexing and heartbreaking. I feel more like a tightrope walker, trying not to offend or push away, than a source of comfort, reassurance, and example for my kids. So, now... what is a parent to do about it? How do we interact with our children who have left the Church, while holding true to the Lord's doctrine, values and standards which we know to be true, while at the same time avoiding the bridge burning that can damage or even sever family ties?
@@capybara39419 That is a good question i need also. Having some of my own children going away. The main answer that i have come to see so far is the covenants that my wife and I have made to God qualify us for God’s help and protection. I believe if our children are to come back, it will be because we are faithful to our covenants. We live them with exactness an honor. The adversary cannot overcome God or his principles or his covenants. I stake my faith in Jesus Christ and the New and Everlasting Covenant and ___________ of Marriage. you’ll have to go do sealings to fill in the blank. I believe they will eventually come back. But also the truth is if they do not, they really would not be happy living a celestial law. We are still sealed to them no matter which choice they make. Sealing to parents is NOT contingent on faithfulness or worthiness. It is a gift from God like the Resurrection. Go listen to those words carefully.
We do not tip toe, but we do not pick a fight either. We firmly follow are commitments and covenants. Hang in there. Remember: Death before you give up.
"identitarian secular philosophies" - but this does not explain why they are replacing a Mormon (or other religious identity) with a NEW identity, and often this is a "social justice warrior" identity based on ideology rather than an organic community. Basically, the Marxists are doing an excellent job of preaching their message over and over again via many different channels, and also protecting their new adherents from exposure to other messages that might challenge their assumptions. Religious communities need to turn the tables, at least where their own members and especially younger members are concerned. That will probably require creating more inward looking and socially isolated communities until cultural, political, and legal conditions change again. It will require becoming more "counter cultural" and increasing the tension between their community and the dominant culture, while reducing personal contacts between the two communities. That is the price that religious communities must pay to stop the hemorrhaging. One day they can become more open to interaction again, but not now. It is time to circle the wagons and adopt a defensive position.
"are becoming a form of a religion in and of themselves"
Nearly everyone has religion. If you abandon "church" the instinct for religion attaches to something else.
Wonderful presentation, Greg. I have witnessed this exact "movement" hit my five children during the last decade - even my formerly "stalwart" ones, with beautiful Patriarchal blessings, and who had planned to serve missions. It's been both perplexing and heartbreaking. I feel more like a tightrope walker, trying not to offend or push away, than a source of comfort, reassurance, and example for my kids. So, now... what is a parent to do about it? How do we interact with our children who have left the Church, while holding true to the Lord's doctrine, values and standards which we know to be true, while at the same time avoiding the bridge burning that can damage or even sever family ties?
I’ll try talking more about this in the future
I have a somewhat similar situation going on. The impression I have received is that I need to stay on the path myself so that when the bottom falls out for them they will know where to turn for peace. At some point in our lives we've all come to a place where nothing that the world offers gives us peace and comfort. So, they will come to that place in their lives as well where they will have no choice but to come unto Christ, because nothing else will work. How else will they know where that is if we don't shine a light on it by staying true? Just as important, though, is that we can also have that peace and assurance from the Lord through all of this. It's fine to walk that tightrope, and then opportunities will arise where you can fully open your heart because they either asked you to, or they gave an opening for it. God is in control and they are His children, too.
We had our stalwart returned missionary daughter and her returned missionary husband, both have a leadership positions, leave the church for these identitarian reasons, this past year.
@@jennydc8 I'm sorry to hear that. Give them time. Love them and stick to your testimony. Sometimes truths taught in their youth percoluate to the top and win out.
@@jennydc8
It's very hard to watch that happen. Regarding Greg's topic of discussion, it's like a "perfect storm" of popular social justice messaging, peer pressure, political pressure, shaming, indoctrination from grade school through college, etc., thrown in with a dose of anti-LDS propaganda that insidiously bombards (mostly younger) Church members. Even those who have served missions or held leadership positions can be impacted (influenced, beguiled, deceived) by the ravages of this storm.
Satan knows that his time is running out before Jesus comes again to usher in the Millenium. He and his spirit followers, who were cast out of our Father's presence for rebellion by choosing to follow Satan during their first estate, are using everything in their arsenal to attack those who kept their first estate and earned their second estate by chosing Heavenly Father's plan in pre-mortality - a plan that we all chose. We witness daily their desperate effort to distract and prevent us from staying on the straight and narrow path that leads to life eternal. My daily prayer is to stay on that path, and that my children will find their way back to it.
I was LDS until I got excommunicated in the 90s. As a straight man I didn’t see anything wrong with gay marriage at the time. Bishop referred my stance to the stake president, who sent it to a GA. Ruling was to excommunicate. Not sure if that would be the case today though.
Flight from churches is not just an LDS issue. “Western” religions and societies are wasting so much energy on non-issues.
Churches are mostly in decline. Mine has half the attendance we had in 2013.
I left because the truth claims became unreconcilable with reality for me.
Interesting thoughts.
The Church has never oppressed me and yet people can feel oppressed if standards are stressed and declared.
The Mormon church doesn't tend to marginalize straight, white males.
@@lorijohnston7795or anyone else. All are invited to live the gospel, to have faith and to repent.
I never felt oppressed either, but can easily see why lgbtq members would feel so.
I was controlled, perhaps? But I didn’t come to this realization until I had already left because of unreconcilable issues with truth claims made by the church.
I doubt many people leave because of one issue, but rather, a multitude of issues exist today within the church that could easily deter otherwise outstanding human beings.
Sadly all 4 of my daughters have bought into the ideology of the world. All I can do is keep my own temple covenants and wait on the Lord to shepherd them back into the fold. I hope I live long enough to see that day.
All three of my children have also decided to abandon the foundation of the gospel. It’s sad to see so many young people of the church being deceived. Sign of the times, no doubt.
I'm so sorry. Most of my family has left as well. They get angry if anyone brings up the gospel.
As a “prodigal son”, I want nothing more than to be able to talk with my parents about why I have left the church. From my perspective, they see me just as you do your children, and presuppose that I have been led astray. Often, they will bear their testimony at me or try to get me to pray against my will. It is insulting to be treated like I am diseased.
At least in my case, and I’m sure many others, I’ve long felt that my parents abandoned me emotionally as soon as I expressed my disbelief of the church and without truly listening to my reasons and now only pontificate, assume, and accuse. I can’t really blame them, as I knew this would be the case from the moment I realized I no longer believed.
To others in the thread: characterizing your children as having been deceived, angry, sinners, apostates, etc will 100% not bring your children back to the church. On the other hand, if you try believing your children and showing a real interest in their lives beyond trying to course correct and control, you may discover that you’ve pushed them away and that they want nothing more than to have a genuine relationship with you.
@@TheBitPunch You assume far too much. I have a great relationship with my daughters. My relationship with them is more important to me than how they choose to live or what they choose to believe. Saying they bought into the ideology of the world is a statement of fact, the church teaches one thing, the world another, and they made a choice to accept what the world teaches. I don't disparage them for it, but it does make me sad as I expect in the long run it will cost them.
If they want to talk about why they left the church or whatever I'm more than open to that, but I don't bring it up because I know they don't want to talk about it. As they are adults, I respect their right to make their own choices. Sorry your parents don't act like that. While I'm sure it is easy to take offence, I hope you understand they love you and are concerned about your future.
@@incogneato790 My apologies, I can tell from how you speak you are a wonderful, loving parent. My assumption was mostly based on experiences I’ve had since leaving.
I’m not offended or angry about how things are (as is often the line falsely leveled against former members), nor has treatment by any group or individual shaped my view of the church, only its history. My feelings are secondary, and I only wish to come to the defense of others who have made the difficult choice to disassociate.
My dispute is over claims of truth alone. The human mind can be made to believe anything that is seen as necessary for its survival, and that’s how I see my time in the church.
I guess it's natural to want to put people into categories. It seems it helps us to mentally to feel more settled with what's happening around us. There may be a tendency for many to assume when someone leaves its because they "got offended" or because they in some way don't want to live the standards of the church. It can also be a combination of those two. Still...there are other categories. Perhaps these social justice...woke types as was mentioned are one.
If I were to choose another category it would be j@ b disaffected people. Card carrying LDS who have long trumpeted the follow the prophet no matter what mantra who have found the meds to be neither safe nor effective and are left wondering if they need to rethink the whole "prophet will never lead astray" notion...particularly when it goes against soooo many scriptures. But the people say..."that was just a policy" and yet it was touted as a "literal godsend" and rasband compared it to following Jesus...and it was promoted in GC from the pulpit etc. Many of these are wandering right now staying in the church hanging by their fingernails or have left. As more die from side effects I expect this group to skyrocket.
Then I'd point to a growing group of people who deeply study scripture and source documents of church history. These people are generally not venomous against the church...they want to see it in line with the original teachings of Joseph Smith and scripture. Let's have a scripture study about what the scriptures teach about tithing (for example) verses what the church now teaches. They are two different things. This is a group that is facing cognitive dissonance and asking questions. A great many of these are being kicked out...others consider themselves missionaries to their own people helping them to open their scriptures and believe what the prophets and Christ said.
Renlund NOT Rasband!
@Julie palmer youre right...renlund did say safe and effective in GC...but Rasband gave an interview where he equated following rmn as the same as following Jesus...and RMN says get the secret sauce.
I see this as an attack from Satan. It's just a different age group in the church.
For me, agency is still the war. We can never give it to anyone. Period. We are here to Act or be acted upon. It is both our privilege and our responsibility.
BUT if one listened to the LORD they didn't get the sauce because they were doing what the prophet FIRST said to do. He said get your OWN revelation. He said let GOD prevail. This was of concern to me as well, however, I took my concerns to GOD. I got answers and those answers were......"don't leave". If I am going to do something I'm going to make darn good and sure it's what GOD has personally told me to do. It's about conversion and relationship......... relationship brings joy.😊
As a recent Exmo, I appreciate someone in the church recognizing the real issues. I understand that we disagree on what side of the argument is correct, but it’s nice to hear at least one person who understands why these points of view break down the church quickly.
Best of luck in your channel and thanks for opening your mind enough to try and understand. ❤
These points of view are not really strong, and mostly they are in fact either absurd or based on assertions that have little or no basis in fact. However, the side that promotes them control many different channels through which to repeat their message endlessly, while the resources of the more traditional side are far more constrained. And since most people are poorly informed and frankly rather slow mentally (not a misanthrope, just calling it the way I see it), most of them can't see through the critical theory stuff, the social justice fraud, the multiple genders nonsense, and other fallacies without a lot of help and social reinforcement. This is a contest of cultures, and one side is on a very well funded propaganda offensive and has nearly all the practical advantages.
@@michaels4255 nothing to add. Well written Michael, I couldn't do it better.
Just so we're all on the same page....
'These ideas' referred to in the video that we disagree on are: There are no objective principles that must be followed to achieve freedom and wellbeing. Suggestions that objective principles exist are an effort to manipulate and control. Instead, freedom and wellbeing are achieved through individual expression. Traditional institutions like religion or family established on these 'objective truths' are enslaving and individual expression is liberating.
While the the church obviously breaks down under this ideology because it's completely counter to its own, I think Greg was saying it has such an effect on people because they don't grasp the deeper significance of 'social justice' issues. When you say 'opening your mind' and 'trying to understand' I feel like you're implying that Greg is sympathizing with people who leave the church when he's criticizing your critical thinking.
Say hi to Amy for me ;)
I feel no need to push our individual beliefs on each other, so this argument doesn’t need to happen. I hope everyone is happy and at peace with their choices. I wish you all the freedoms to continue in your religion as you would like. Everyone deserves the freedom of choice. ❤ goodbye 👋
@@shul-be you seem oblivious that the Mormon church uses a large missionary force to actively push it's religion on people and has done so from very nearly the church's onset 200 years ago. This has gone on deceptively with missionaries actively taught to mislead potential converts. Very few if any join the church with a knowledge of church history, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and much of church doctrine. It would be nice if we could all rest easy and live and let live. Unfortunately the deceit and deception of the church makes your view naive and dangerous.
WOOOW!!! You articulated SOOOO well what I’ve been thinking and seeing for so long. Thank you so much for explaining it so perfectly!!! Oh how I wish we could get this out to membership and have this discussion to help the youth understand and even much of the young adults and parents. I know you are trying to do that and I applaud you... your courage and understanding are contagious.
Bravo Brother!!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I will be studying the BOM differently from now on. Thank you for your perspective. It’s great to have someone help you look at something with fresh eyes.
I have often reflected on how much of what we observe these days seems to be a recapitulation of the ideas that propagated among the Lehites in 4th Nephi. There, divisions that had mostly dissolved between the Nephites and Lamanites were suddenly being reinforced. The Lehites started playing the identitarian game, and it precipitated the complete destruction of the entire civilization. Their differences became more important than their shared heritage and covenants. It is also interesting that the traditions of the Gadianton robbers simultaneously took hold again. Personally, I view the current "critical" theoretic framework to be the religious expression of those same secret combinations today. Unlike the revolutions of the 60s, to which this movement often compares itself to, it sows division and discontent, rather than seek or insist on unity of the human species. Indeed it appears that the design of the ideology is fashioned to destabilize and weaken people intellectually, spiritually and physically. It repudiates the very notion of objective truth of any kind, foments discord, rejects authority, affirms delusion and supports slothfulness along every human faculty. It is particularly troubling that the leadership hasn't spoken with sharpness about this issue. It is a strange twist, as they seem so subdued about it, even going so far as to reinforce our stance that racism has no place in the Church, as if that was the larger issue, rather than the people that constantly cry "racism" at every turn. I hope they are being guided on this issue, and I pray they'll help us fight back against this disease before it destroys us.
I will never leave the church! My testimony grows ever stronger! ✨
Self-deception can be a powerful thing.
@@maxxam3590 in my observation, the one saying things like that is often the one possessing those qualities. Have you read the book “Leadership and Self Deception”, it’s quite eye opening in how we view others and how we treat others.
@@AD-ju7ct I haven't, but Sounds interesting. In any case, I think you just didn't like me calling christianity self-deception.
Like a Pokémon leveling up!
Sounds like you know first hand..@@maxxam3590
Sin only leads to bondage not liberation
This podcast is so very important and very much on target. I was born in 1942 and came of age in the 60's when the hippie movement was in full vigor. That movement has, in the interim, left the bleached bones of its adherents lining many a highway and byway. Now, in the year 2022, there seems to be a home industry growing up around deconstructing and debunking the LDS church. It is very much as Elder Boyd K. Packer observed: "They have left us and gone out from us but they can not leave us alone." The dogs bark and the ducks come out and peck at our ankles but the caravan (the Restored Church) moves on to fulfill its destiny and mission. Thank you for the time and study you put into these presentations.
Very well said.
Wonderful analysis! I was born in '61, but remember well much of what you reference about the hippie/psychedelic era. Such crazy times! We lived not far from San Francisco, and I have vivid memories of the people and things we would see there. I was married in the Oakland temple, after serving a mission in Perú. Now, all my children are inactive/have left the Church. Some of my kids fell prey to that "deconstructing and debunking" that you mention, helped along by the worldly messaging pushed in schools and on the internet, and through social apps. One of my sons, in particular is as Elder Packer said: "They have left us and gone out from us but they can not leave us alone." We finally had to ask him to cease from sending us 'Anti' propaganda.
@@brb5506 Except that ducks don't actually peck.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints. If people are leaving, I think they should be allowed to. No one can force anyone to stay. If you're not feeling it, and you want to leave that's your prerogative.
No one said otherwise.
Our 16 year old daughter just told she doesn’t believe anymore and doesn’t want to go to church. Though it breaks our heart to see her distancing herself from the sure foundation of the gospel, we are not making her go. To force our will upon her would make us no better than Satan forcing his will upon others. People must freely choose to come to Christ. It is, after all, our heart that he wants. He stands at the door and knocks. He doesn’t use a battering ram and break down the door.
You can have that opinion. However if the trend continues the church will become like what is happening in the UK. Four stakes have been closed in less than 12 months. Birmingham had seen a decline in active membership of 41% in the last decade.
Yeah, if you’re not “feeling it”, just quit. Sounds about right.
Being a child of God and a man of Zion is my identity.
Friday ngt - October 28, 2022.
As a grandparent/guardian of teenagers I have heard direct Marxism from teachers to kids and passed on to us. I am just grateful I heard it at all so we could have a discussion. I did not win-“if there was no money, everyone could have everything they want” debate. But I can positively point out capitalism when I see it.
By the way, I keep seeing videos about why people left the church.
Does anyone see videos on “Why I stay”?
I’m probably going to start one 😂
I’ve been seen a lot of those videos show up on my feed.
@@rubyslippers1935 feel free to share 😁
There are actually many videos from people sharing why they stay and they pop into my feeds every so often. I’ve definitely never searched CZcams for those sorts of videos. Algorithms aren’t sending these types of videos your way I suppose. I have no idea what behaviors I have that trigger algorithms to send them my way lol. I’ve seen these videos state that they don’t know how to make sense out of problematic issues with the church but they choose to have faith and stay (and assume they will understand these things at some later time), or people who say that they stay out of tradition and the sense of community they receive in the church, to those who say they stay because it would shake up their family if they left and they don’t want to do that, or there is some element of fear in leaving, or choosing to stay because they want to help the church evolve from the inside out… these seem to be the themes I’ve seen in the “why I stay” videos.
Listen to the “come back” podcast. It’s all about people returning to the church. It’s really inspiring!
"Called to share"..great convert stories!
I left the church when I learned about the history that was not taught in my home or in primary & young women in my early 20s.
I was disillusioned but I realized that I didn’t have a strong enough testimony to withstand the new worldly pressures. My family just went to church to save face.
I’m so glad I came back and the time away allowed me to really cultivate my testimony.
If young people would spend the time to find answers and find their testimony with that same passion they have for all these -isms, we would have a completely church.
I was recently studying archeology when I discovered that intelligent children of God have been on Earth for hundreds of thousands of years, not at all what the BOM or D&C says. Then I learned that Joseph Smith did not "translate" the BOM from golden plates, like I sang about and was taught throughout my life. NOPE! He put his head in a hat and used a rock to narrate a story. OMG!
I dedicated my life to what I was led to believe was, "truth." I wore garments, paid tithing when I had to take a cash advance to cover rent. I served in callings. My world crumbled as I took my questions directly to God. No. God does not live on a planet near Kolab.
My world crumbled. Devastation. Disillusionment. Completely lost and wanted to end my own life.
When LDS people take the sacrament, they covenant to, "Comfort those who stand-in need of comfort. Mourn with those that mourn. Bear one another's burdens." Pointing a finger at the truth seekers? It takes a great deal of courage to walk away. Reading the comments here are so far removed from anybody who would be keeping their baptismal covenants, to love others as Jesus loves.
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@@lorijohnston7795 Sorry to hear about your experience Lori - I guess it was easier for me as a convert since I learned that information (rock and hat) before baptism. I studied biology/evolution in colege. Not sure why the hat thing bothers some, but I do understand how learning new information that you didn't know before can be earth shattering. Better to learn the whole truth early in my view which I think is now more common for young LDS people.
By "completely different church," do you mean "completely different people"? I ask because you know that the church is Christ's church, right? His gospel and doctrine doesn't change.
@@lorijohnston7795plain and simple , you lost your testimony thru your own choices . It did not happen over night , it gradually, slowly fell apart . I hope things improve for you ....😢 have a nice rest of the year .
@@yeti1002 Plain and simple, You have no idea who Jesus Christ is. Your self-righteous statement here is the polar opposite of who he is. Plain and simple: 1. God does not live on a planet near Kolab. 2. There is no such thing as angels with flaming swords who tell married men to marry other women.
plain and simple, you are blinded by your own pride.
One thing I've noticed that Church leaders amd members doing that grinds my gears is THEIR OWN DIRECT PARTICIPATION in a very specific kind of racism called preferential treatment. I started noticing it about 5 years ago. I don't mean by focusing on doing missionary work in third world countries, I'm referring to going way too far out of their way to prove how they're supposedly not racist. Where members and even the leaders will "flock" around African or Hispanic visitors and members and quite literally ignore members and visitors of European features. I've personally watched it happen. I'm not the only one who's noticed. Personally, I treat everyone the same.
@@GAILandROD what does that have to do with Church members and leaders giving preferential treatment to Church members and visitors? Especially when none of them are scouting for potential talent of particular ethnicities to audition for a docu-drama.
Yes, i noticed this 10 yrs ago, especially on the ensign mag. The people in the cover pages and pics on the inside proportionally did not match (not even close) the demographics of church
Human imperfection is an opportunity to forgive, to serve, and to help by supporting and living the better principle we can find in Christ. We may notice inconsistent behavior around us but our response is what makes the difference.
Possibly a reaction of the bad way African/ Hispanic people were treated in the early days of the Church. I find it I'm totally left out of the loop when so many of the talks seem to be directed to the Youth. Can the seniors get a shout-out occasionally please? We're still here!! 😀
We all need to meet ypu cause you are sooo perfect.
Advice please. What is this CES letter that is mentioned? I've been a member for 46 years and never heard of it!
It’s an anti Mormon letter
@@CwicShow Thanks. Just as well then! Enough of that stuff about!
I think this is why Elder Christofferson emphasized at his last BYU address our preeminent identities (Child of God, Disciple of Christ, Child of the covenant) and that no other identity should surpass them.
This was very, very good. I am more determined than ever to stay on the covenant path no matter what. Thank you for inspiring us!
My best friend unfortunately has fallen into this Idiologies and is leaving the church. She dedicated enough time watching podcast against the church and reading stuff that took her away so far to the point of losing her testimony completely.
It's sad for me to watch her walk away. She was The YW President and I was her counselor... 😭
@@ricosadventureswithbeckyan1373
She may be onto something.
I was in the temple the other day and read in Alma 46. Go read the top few verses. My eyes were more open to the things we are seeing happen today. I think I go to quickly to get to the title of Liberty because I love it. And by slowing down as we do in the temple the spirit was teaching me. I am so grateful. Especially the part about the lower judges of the land and after that part. It is at the very top of the chapter. Also a key thing that has really been big to me. Is the organization of the Book of Mormon. Alma 46 has Amalickiah fighting against Liberty in the land. And the in the season of the 46th President we are seeing the same. I was floored when I saw this. Thanks for your post. I am in a bubble in life and you are teaching me things to look out for that I have not had experience with. Country life will do that for ya.
Just as in the BOM we read about secret combinations and the Gadianton robbers and corrupt judges... that's all in our present government. Only the blind or those in self denial would not see that.
Thank you Greg. What you say feels so appropriate to me. Keep up the inspired work. I need it.
12:28- Greg said it out loud! I’m layman’s terms, millennial vs Boomer mindset = preference for Authenticity vs. Loyalty. It’s a revolution the brethren didn’t see coming. Did a video on it two years ago. Love you’re talking about it!
You said it, Cardon. People no longer want to be loyal to a church whose leaders obfuscate and prevaricate. They are looking for authenticity.
I know this is an apologist channel and for all those who love the church for you. I was a TBM till age 50. Lost my faith but still stayed active for 9 more years and dreaded every Sunday of it, because none of it is true. I have been out of it for 4 years and I am a heck of alot happier. I am so done with holy books and holy men.
I would call the channel faithful but not apologist. I do love the holy books and the holy men.
@@CwicShow ok, faithful is fine. I don't have any ax to grind with any of the general membership, I have had the Bishop and the Stake President in my home since leaving. I don't talk religion unless they ask and I tell them I going to brutally honest without hurting feelings. My life postmormon has not changed much, still pray about four times a day, I consider myself an agnostic, but still I am a very happy person.
There are many holy men who are not leaders of the church. Happiness is dependant on what makes you happy.
@@joshua.snyder Don't discount the scholarship. I just don't focus on the trendy topics of church history. and "mainstream" apologetics. But I do not consider myself an apologist.
It’s funny that word apologist yet neither he or I apologize for any of our beliefs and it’s sad you didn’t bother to see the whole truth instead of the small parts out of context glad your happy though
Greg, one of the hardest parts for me as a parent is to explain to my younger adolescent children that their older siblings are wrong when it all boils down. I have two high school graduates and two just about to start high school. It is apparent that CRT thinking played a big role in shaping the first two and it caught us unawares. Now we are trying everything in our power to prepare and safeguard our younger two to be ready for the onslaught they will be facing. And it is heartbreaking to consider my first two as Guinea pigs and trying to win them back now that they are starting to leave the nest.
Same thing happened w my oldest. We're homeschooling the rest to try and avoid it.
I had to request the book and have library order it in. Again, thank you
The western world is becoming more and more secular. It’s that simple.
My friend employs the ideology you just outlined, that “people’s truths” are based on society’s cultural movements. Thanks for laying this out. Now I know how to talk with her about church culture issues.
I'm not leaving....I know it's led by Christ our Savior.
I’m with you, Sister.
I’m with you. Sadly, however, many people are so obsessed with the trivial things of the “church”, and therefore are not anchored to our Savior and His Gospel. There are bound to be mistakes in the church because of the follies of men. Not bad men, just human.
But the gospel of Jesus Christ is perfect, and without fault. One needs a testimony to survive spiritually in these last days.
@@kevinfrancis4255 they get “caught up in the thick of thin things”
Amen. I have had too many extraordinary experiences where the Spirit has witnessed to me the truthfulness of this gospel. I know it, and I know that God knows that I know it.
Ditto
I was baptized August 2021. Thinking about leaving the church. The people are great. But for me I’m single and always struggled mightily in dating. I’m 44 and I don’t seem to fit in. I have no interest in being a step dad to 3-4 kids that isn’t mine. I gave the church my all but I can’t do it anymore. It’s just too painful to be in the family ward, and if I go to the singles ward, I’ll see one by one near me get relationships. It’s already happened to 3 people in the family ward. One was on lds singles app for less than a month and met his current wife. I tried the same app and got not a single response in 2 months and 75 profiles later.
So sorry to hear that. Remember that truth is truth. I wish you the best.
I hear you! Agreed. 22 yrs single, always out of place in family ward.
I pay little attention to how other family are ..I was divorced 25 yrs ago....didn't end up with my kids.due to things ......but none of all these injustices changed my knowledge I felt the witness the b. of m . Was true.....I began just waiting and living for a later time . I ignore the things that I don't fit into or can't have for now....remembering this life is actually short
I feel for you Brian. Lonliness sucks. But leaving the Church is not the answer, it will only make your life worse. It seems you're focusing on romantic and other people relationships instead of your relationship with Christ. The Church is true, and the Covenant Path is the way back to God. All else is incidental. Focus on serving others and you'll be happier.
Brian - do they have a mid-singles ward in your area? That is designed for people aged 31-45 in most stakes. I know one mid-singles ward where the bishop told me there were 17 marriages among members. I did the lds dating apps and sites. That was hard since the people were so far away.
This is such an important topic that more people in the church need to understand. James Lindsay has been particularly effective in going out and exposing the pernicious, deceptive foundations of critical theory and all its offshoots. Too many people are being deceived by this mind virus into losing their faith.
It's perfectly reasonable to have concerns in good faith, but that isn't what is going on anymore.
I strangely saw this would happen after reading something from the bible about how the very elites would be deceived.
@@TheMormonSorceressthe very elect not elites
I'm not too knowledgeable about this issue? Can someone here tell me what the CES Letter is??? I have no idea what Greg is talking abt.
"CES Letter is one Latter-day Saint's honest quest to get official answers from the LDS Church on its troubling origins, history, and practices. Jeremy Runnells was offered an opportunity to discuss his own doubts with a director of the Church Educational System (CES) and was assured that his doubts could be resolved. After reading Jeremy's letter, the director promised him a response." But no response was given . Jeremy has since published his letter and his research he did himself, with no help from the church or CES director.
cesletter.org/CES-Letter.pdf
Not honest.
@@CwicShow what do you mean,"But honest."? I'm kinda dense sometimes. What do you mean by this?
@@violetangelflame1 The Letter is not honest. It is filled with an anti-Mormon agenda.
Cwic - Greg, someone mentioned to me the other day that there is a large number of people leaving the church on the far right. Can you comment on this? I would be interested in what information you have on this and what your thoughts are.
I'm trying to gather more info on this. But it is a thing.
If there was ever a time the world is in need of a Prophet of God it's now. I support and sustain President Russell M Nelson. We thank thee O God a Prophet!!!
I really think it's still both (CES stuff and Ideology stuff). I have a few friends and several people in my ward who left just in the last 2 years because of historical, CES stuff. It's still prevalent. I think these things together reinforce each other in giving people a "reason" or excuse to leave. But I agree with everything you say about the topic of ideology and identity and how the church will be viewed. The battlefield is expanding and coming from all sides. This identity stuff is huge and, just like the CES stuff, people don't know how to "reconcile". It is a social contagion and spreading so fast. All part of the adversary's plan to destroy the family and faith. I appreciate your channel quite a bit.
You know the reason CES stuff draws people away, right? It's not just because church history is messy, it's because it reveals to people the lack of integrity and honesty among Church leaders. You don't even need the CES letter for that (I haven't read it): all you need is the history surrounding the Manifesto. How many of us were taught in Sunday school that we needed a second Manifesto because the first one was just for show and we all winked at it anyway? How many of us heard Pres. Hinckley tell the world that when it comes to becoming gods, "I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it ," all the while knowing it was a central tenet of the gospel and a principle reinforced in the endowment? "CES stuff" is really "can I trust Church leaders" stuff, and when you conclude that you can't, there's plenty of room for identitarianism or any other ism you want.
@@daisymae4587 History in general is messy and the problem is we will never know the full truth of it. We can find out the facts and information sure, but there is a moral lens where people view history with their current lens and make judgements. Those judgments are for each person to make. I know it is easy to find fault and assign intention. That's also a dangerous thing imo. I've read the CES letters and I've had my share of doubts, still do. But I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe the Book of Mormon is the word of God. If the church isn't true then I don't think there is a true church of Christ on the earth today personally. I'm glad I belong to this faith and I love the doctrines found here.
@@daisymae4587 you haven’t read it, but you have declared it to reveal truth. Talk about intellectual laziness and personal dishonesty.
I was recently studying archeology when I discovered that intelligent children of God have been on Earth for hundreds of thousands of years, not at all what the BOM or D&C says. Then I learned that Joseph Smith did not "translate" the BOM from golden plates, like I sang about and was taught throughout my life. NOPE! He put his head in a hat and used a rock to narrate a story. OMG!
I dedicated my life to what I was led to believe was, "truth." I wore garments, paid tithing when I had to take a cash advance to cover rent. I served in callings. My world crumbled as I took my questions directly to God. No. God does not live on a planet near Kolab.
My world crumbled. Devastation. Disillusionment. Completely lost and wanted to end my own life.
When LDS people take the sacrament, they covenant to, "Comfort those who stand-in need of comfort. Mourn with those that mourn. Bear one another's burdens." Pointing a finger at the truth seekers? It takes a great deal of courage to walk away. Reading the comments here are so far removed from anybody who would be keeping their baptismal covenants, to love others as Jesus loves.
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@@lorijohnston7795 Each person has their own path to walk. Your doubts and struggles may be different from mine. I agree that nobody should be ostracized or criticized for having doubts. God bless you on your journey!
I want to be less of a unique individual and more like Jesus. I've seen where being more like me leads.
That’s exactly right.
I can attest to this. ‘Prodigal daughter’ here. Lol when you’ve lived on the other side & think you know what you’re doing, your own rules, lifestyle, etc….temporary happiness & temporary love is what you’re going to get. Since then I’ve put Christ & the gospel at the center of my life and it’s been totally different. If people would put him first, they will always experience love & happiness.
The biggest lie that Lucifer tells people is that they can't change and that others should just accept them as they are. Problem with that philosophy is that The atonement is centered on change, being born again and becoming a new creature through Christ.
Why dont you have some of us who have left on ? So we can talk to you about why we left, instead of making assumptions
As I’ve mentioned before, love how you produce your channel and I’m glad you’re reach is expanding, you communicate your platform well. That being said, I’m not sure how one might be able to measure the real reason why people are leaving the church but I know very few that are leaving because of identity issues.
I think the reality is as we mature as a society, we stop believing in things that really just don’t make sense like Santa Claus and Noah’s flood, etc. and the church just gets lumped in there with all of that stuff, there comes a point where you need more than feelings to live a high demand religion.
And I think people are realizing that they don’t need the church to live a great life, to live an authentic and honest life. That’s the big thing that’s happening right now
Church’s everywhere, including the LDS church, just don’t have the ability to influence people like they did before because as society matures we believe less in magical things I think that’s really what’s going on.
Thanks.
It depends on how old you are. Also, as society matures, it usually decays.
I disagree that people don’t need a church to live great, authentic and honest lives. I think that many of the people who leave the church do fine running on the fumes of the values and beliefs they are taught while in the faith, but their children and grandchildren will not fare so well. Look around you at society and you see masses of people depressed, anxious and living lives largely devoid of true purpose and meaning. You also see people who have become unmoored from the values of integrity, hard work, and the importance of intact families etc. I believe this is all due to people leaving traditional Christianity. We aren’t wise enough to make up our own values and that is becoming more obvious with more people in our society trying it.
I am an authentic, honest person and I believe in the reality of Noah's flood as documented in the scriptures and confirmed by Jesus Christ himself. Your mocking of me by calling that "magical thinking" just confirms that as a Christian standing up against the world I am truly being my authentic self instead of worrying about what others think.
@@davidh6513 I apologize there was no intention of offending the “magical thinking“ was just the first thing that came to my mind. But maybe put in another way, let’s imagine somebody came to us today and claimed the exact same thing that Noah did, he started building an ark and prophesying to the world that it was going to be destroyed. How likely would you be to believe the current person and his claims versus what we read in the Bible, which is about a person we can’t really ever know much about? When you think about it in these terms, it really helps us understand that it’s a lot easier to believe in miraculous things that we will never have any way of knowing if they truly transpired or not versus someone in today’s time performing those exact same miraculous things, which we know just don’t happen. Would love to get your thoughts on this because I think this is actually a big reason why Christianity as a whole is shrinking, people are just starting to realize that the Bible is likely full of stories of legends mixed with some historical facts.
@@CwicShow I agree here to a point.
Right. Although church history still does affect people leaving the Mormon faith, and this CRT has compounded this, don’t overlook things like the church promoting the injection, apparent acceptance of same sex relationships and contributing millions to the UN, WEF and NAACP. Most members may not be concerned about those things but a growing number are, at least in my circles.
@@joshua.snyder the Church knew people would leave. Satan is winning hearts of many and will try to gain all for his gratification. Those who stay and believe in Christ will be saved...
@Joshua Snyder convert numbers has risen 😎
@Joshua Snyder fell cause of covid. I'm dunno the last time a non member had access to the numbers of the Church
@@joshua.snyder cool, god bless you in finding your truth
@@joshua.snyder Are those numbers accessible to any member or just leadership?
When I believed that God existed and that I had a relationship with him, living faithfully and sharing this belief was my life and my purpose. It helped me through bearing my trials from the death of both my parents to my lung cancer diagnosis to chemotherapy to the onset of my major mood disorder. When the realisation hit me that that I don’t actually know if God exists or what will happen to me when I die, it broke my entire worldview. I had to rebuild and in doing so, not knowing if God exists, not getting any answers, and with only old memories to hang my faith on, it certainly has paved the way for other schools of thought to enter and find a place in my worldview. I still live faithfully. I am trying, but the gap between me and God just gets wider and wider every day.
I can tell you that one's relationship with God is the number one reason people return to the Church. One may disagree with policies, been offended by a church leader, be confused about church history, but the lack of a relationship with our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ is what brings people back. That is because it is the most important principle and drives our testimonies and our actions.
New worldviews that can capture your heart and mind are the number one reason losing this relationship. These strong philosophies of men are not merely doubt creators, but pull at your whole soul. I wish you the very best in your journey of faith. I hope that you can see how that relationship with your Heavenly Father, build through prayer, is what is most needed in your life. I hope your trials can point you in that direction. You are loved and have immense potential.
Draw close to God, Nothing but ourselves can separate us from God. Without God there’s only despair, right?
I discussed taking my name off the roles today with my wife. She asked me not to.
I feels disceptive to not.
I've been around BYU college students, and have taught them since 2015. I get their anonymous surveys about them and their families.
I've also seen all the surveys about why people leave. We have lots of data.
Your take does not fit the data. People aren't leaving because identitarianism, social just, CRT, liberalism, etc.
People are leaving over many other issues with problems in the dominant narrative, simplistic notions of things, an over emphasis on wealth and tying money to ordinances (i.e., gross tithing).
You are only seeing church numbers through the lens of your topic of obsession in an American context. People are leaving all over Europe, South America, etc. and it's not because of what you are saying.
If we can't call a spade a spade, and we use wokism and social justice as a boogeyman, then we will continue to see people leave in droves.
Your words go against the reality that families are facing and discounts the pain that they are going through. Surveys are only as good as the questions asked. I would love to see those surveys. I too am privy to data as well. It's public. I disagree with you and so do many of your colleagues. If you believe that the current culture shift as a result of critical theory and postmodernism isn't affecting members of the Church, especially younger members, then your head is in the sand. This momentum will carry to the scriptures and we will soon see the same ideological tenets used as attacks toward Nephi, Abinadi, Captain Moroni, Alma, Mormon, etc. It is Critical Theory Trevan, and it will be the primary division in the Church just as it is becoming the primary division in our culture.
And you are correct, there are many reasons why people leave. I didn't say anything contrary. But very few are publicly talking about what is happening today. And comparing Europe where the churches have been museums for decades doesn't bring a lot of context. Critical Theory and postmodernism are American phenomena. In areas where the Religion of Academia doesn't thrive, like Africa, the Philippines, and Latin America, the Church is growing. In the end, Critical Theory and Postmodernism are anti-Christ. I believe you will eventually see the reality of these philosophies and the havoc they create within our society, our families, and within the Church.
I do appreciate your scholarship and believe it is a noble cause to teach college students.
Also, my "topic of obsession" is the testimonies of the members of the Church.
@@leilettesartoga7276 I somewhat agree. There is a fine line. You cannot tear something down to get the transparency and "change" you might seek. That is the line I try to walk. I am a huge supporter of the Church, but I don't really play the game. I think you know what I mean.
I agree with this comment. As a former Student Body President at BYU, a person currently serving in a Stake Presidency and understands the many facets of CRT and agree with many of them... I believe this video is completely one sided and misses nuances of "people leaving in droves." The last days many will leave for many reasons. Videos like this one that are one sided do not help those individuals that are truely struggling. This seems like a more politically driven conversation which helps no one. "Give Cesear what is Cesear's"
@@robertjoaquinfoster Thanks for watching. I would suggest that you think this is political because you agree with CRT. That's political.
@@CwicShow I would say that you don't quite understand CRT. I wish I had time to explain it, but I normally don't even comment on things like this because I overall feel as though they are a waste of time. No real insight or change can happen in these settings. I just hope that you talk with people that may be active in the Church that think differently than you. Unfortunately serving in the capacity I serve in the Church, my career, my teenage children and the service I give to my community doesn't allow me to take the time on this. Good luck in you endeavors. There are many out there that can address this. Many of the arguments you make are the exact same the other side makes. Neither are truly Christ centered as you tried to suggest. Take care.
Worth the wait! Absolutely on point. Many people I know this is there struggling, I wish I could share my oil with them.
I left LDS Church after serving a full-time mission over seas and being married in an LDS temple. This happened during the height of Covid.
So true this is… too many are leaving
This pretty much sums up most of the original cast of Studio C. Many of them have fallen away. They use their social media to promote CSJ, Socialism, anti racism (Kendi), anti gospel themes. Only a few years ago, they unanimously bore their powerful testimonies on KBYU.
That is so sad. I wasn't aware of that.
My daughter is good friends with Stacey Harkey, i can attest to the truth of that. I like him, but he has definitely left the church and its teachings.
@@lynettemills7216 It breaks my heart. I remember how powerful his testimony was, and how strongly I felt the Holy Ghost when he spoke.
I lost my testimony because the truth claims made by the church no longer bear out for me.
You are spot on, Greg. It is hard to convince those who are buying this line of “you be you”, “my truth”, CRT, and all that is coming with it. The deception is deep and when they think they have the Spirit of the Lord but they’ve actually lost it, it’s hard to convince them otherwise.
The other side controls the narrative. Your faith community must find ways to take that narrative control away from them, at least so far as members of your own community are concerned.
I agree Lynn, the deception is very deep and shrouded in a virtue. That is why so mamy are drawn to it. But false ideas eventually breakdown. I don’t have all the answers, I am dealing with this exact issue 3 times over with the only 3 children I have. Here are my conclusions “in progress “
1. When God’s answer is to love them, this is not a cop out answer. There is actual power in our love that I have confidence will bear out in everyone’s favor at some future point. This requires trust in God and Christ which is an imperative for us to develop. Our love is also an imperative.
2. The maintaining of our own personal covenants with God can not be underestimated and will also play a role in the lives of our children.
3. Confidence that Christ has the power and ability necessary to heal all of us AND make truth in its totality known is the comfort we can look to. We can increase our confidence and trust thru #2 listed above.
One thing I know for sure, it’s painful and Christ understands our pain perfectly. We are not alone.
He can and will fix what is broken.
@@michaels4255 train people to look at deeds and outcomes. No one can hide the fruits of their labors and ideology. And they're soon forthcoming, you don't have to wait long in most cases. But besides that, everyone knows who is honest and who is merely loud and emotional. It's just tempting because they want to belong with their peers and the people who seem to be having fun, so they go with the loud and emotional crowd.
I feel like there is a lot of overthinking here. And taking the church as a whole one single entity instead of somebody's own very personal testimony and relationship with the Lord. The church being looked at as a single entity is a huge problem very nothing worse than hearing the church the church the church. Well we are individuals and nobody is perfect
Do you know anything about Social Emotional Learning? If so, can you do a video on it?
Thanks for being aware of what is happening. I find it interesting how many members don't see the threats to the gospel/family. I have stopped saying the church is true, I now say the gospel is true, because the church doesn't equal the gospel. It never has and never will. We should be living our lives according to the principles of the gospel, not according to the culture of our society and or church.
The church is not perfect, that’s not to say it’s not true, right?
You're overthinking this. Many of us (probably most) who have left did so because what was once dismissed as anti-mormon lies are now acknowledged in the gospel topics essays. In other words, we were lied to by the church's leadership. It really is that simple.
How long ago did you leave the church though?
@@CwicShow Not sure why that matters but left, officially, a year ago.
I don't condone the white washing of church history. I believe it should have been presented in a more honest way in which nobody is perfect, and the Lord works through infallible men who still had agency. I'm sure for many people, it was thought to be better to not mention the "inconvenient truths" and stick to more faith promoting endeavors. The discovery of "truth" (quoted, because some have presented historical items in very biased ways to promote an agenda) on the internet forced leaders to come forward and address past misgivings, and many leaders since then have said that the day of pushing aside honest and sincere questions are long gone, and they need to be addressed. But not in an intellectually lazy way, which puts the onus on each person being asked to be better prepared to teach by the spirit and guide the individual before them in the best way that they can (under the guidance of the spirit).
@@jum5238 I'm endlessly fascinated by the long, convoluted and sometimes incomprehensible answers some of the faithful come up with when answering the question: why is the church hemorrhaging members?
For those who left, the answer is quite simple: The church they were sold is not the church they got, full stop. It doesn't matter what spin you put on it. It doesn't matter how they found out. It doesn't matter what the leadership's intentions were.
Also, isn't interesting how easy the leadership's lies has made Satan's job? Seriously all Satan has to do is present facts and members start to drop like flies.
I never saw it that way before, thank you
You hit it right on the head. Would this be considered part of the great apostasy and soon to be division in the Lds Church?
It’s a trade for a mess of pottage.
Well put!
I'm not leaving 💪🏻
@@danite1742 I think you're looking at it wrong.
Man, I’m not trying to leave. I just have a strong grip on the things of this world. Also, the withdrawal from everyday living to saintly living is so dramatic for me. I stand as a virgin without enough oil in his lamp. Believe me, I know it is up to me. You ever held onto something so hard that it is hard to release your grip? That and the fact I have lust for them also. I feel my heart is no longer desiring God. I do not desire worst, but when God is not there, there can only be one outcome. Pray for me and my Family. We are all in the same self dug pit.
True individualism is not following the crowd, it is being true to yourself and who you are as a child of God. We are all uniquely and wonderfully made, and we each have our special role to play in The plan of salvation.
Very insightful. Thank you for producing this content.
You're welcome!
I left after being a baptized active member for 48 years. The best decision I ever made 🙏 Jesus fulfilled the law and He alone is enough for me.
Apparently they weren't taught to respect our elders. Our elders have so much knowledge & wisdom. I love our elderly ppl. I was born & raised in Quincy/Nauvoo, IL. I'm so grateful that we were taught to respect & love everyone. I moved to AZ 6yrs ago. I was a school bus driver in IL for 10yrs, became a CNA & worked in nursing homes & the local hospital. The elderly are amazing ppl. With these young adults & children now a days, are soooo different. Is that due to how the parents are... 🤔 I'm just grateful I grew up in the time I did. I pray for everyone. That their hearts may soften & that their ears may hear the truth & know it. It's like Bro Palmer (Watcher Palmer) has said that the best thing will be when the Savior comes & ends all wickedness. 🙏❤️⚘️
100% agree. Thanks for all you do!
I think it's important to be vigilant of identitarianism not only from the left but also from the right. I see more and more frequently members of the church fracture away and lose testimony because the brethren aren't being antagonistic enough toward those they disagree with for their tastes. Or frequently I've seen factions form inside wards that are focused on shaming and intimidating political rivals.
It's important to remember that King Noah and his priests represented the conservative establishment and were acting as a bulwark against the Lamanites. When the focus of King Noah and his Priests turned toward power, division and dividing the people up into identities they fell quickly into sin and lost the spirit of the Lord.
The horseshoe theory of politics is a real thing and the extremists of one side are often exactly the same as the other side, just with a different team color. I'm really starting to believe that any side of this "culture war" is spiritual poison. I don't know what the right thing to do is, and I'm scared.
Very bold statement in the Climate of blaming the leftist members for everything...
i'm scared too, and am probably one of those on the right who is annoyed at the leaders for not condemning the anti-christ (socialists) as McKay, Benson, Smith, Lee use to do. The trouble today is that Utah is trump country and the educated and wealthy GAs are not on the far right and working class side like I am, but closer on the meritocratic elite side. They're sympathetic to the democrats. We don't see eye to eye.
No reason to be scared, just let the holy spirit encamp in your living soul. ☺.God bless.
Wow I keep listening to this. This is a very powerful talk.
What are those members who broke their marriage covenants in the temple,but still going to the church for worship,what idea we can share about their status?
As I read the CES letter I had some questions come into my mind like,”If he really just wants to know the truth as he claims, then why does he keep in the lies.” This is a living document that they can change at anytime, why leave the blatant lies that have been proven false? I found that very strange. If this is just about the church, why attack the Bible, prayer and God? What is their purpose in wanting to destroy the testimonies of those reading this in God if all they want are answers? I found this strange. Then I learned about step-ladder gaslighting and then it made sense. If you flipped the CES letter over, no one would read it after the first few sentences. They keep the lies in to break you down. Then the thought came,”What would the purpose be in this? What do they get out of this?”
Then o watched this video on this woman who had a paster that turned out to be agnostic and is leading people away from their church and causing a crisis of faith little by little. Apparently he didn’t even go to a seminary as he claimed he did. I thought that was very curious. The question came,”what would be the point of an agnostic paster? What does he get out of this?” Then I saw your video of the teacher in South Jordon who had Marxism posters on her wall, and was peddling pornographic books to her high school students. The thought came,”What happened to her morals and virtues that she would go this far?” Then I felt to research what it would take to radicalize someone. Basically it would take breaking down everything that they were into nothing. I have heard a lot of these people talk about how they need to deconstruct their faith. While looking into Marxism/communism/CRT that is what they talk about. They talk about deconstruction and how that is what you need to do to free yourself. While doing this research I learned why they want you to be deconstructed, because you are easier to radicalize. And they also encouraged those that were atheist/agnostic to become pastors and preachers to lead people away. They did it in other countries and are doing it right now. I just thought that was so interesting. If someone is telling you to deconstruct your faith, definitely be weary of that.
Just curious... where are the sources of your information? I would like to learn more for myself.
@@nancyspianostudio2433 There is a book called The Devil and Karl Marx that talks quite a bit about these (a few chapters in.) The radicalization information was on the FBI website. There is not as much information on that but there is some out there.
The Prime Minister of New Zealand is a perfect example
Greg, your discussions are always timely, well-thought out, and I believe inspired. I had many spiritual and intellectual thoughts going through my mind as I was listening. As you mentioned, these are all the very same counterfeit (antichrist) philosophies since the premortal life and in every dispensation since. Thank you for all you do!
Appreciate it!
Cwic Media:
You are certainly on point. The old men at the top have been refusing to hear and making little progress in responding to the important points. In 2011 I was aghast at what a little child told me in her desperation that caused me to see how those 'who have crept in' have knowingly taken many children and caused them to openly say, "I hate Jesus". When I later heard this from the same little child who appealed to me, a stranger, for help and said I must not even tell her mother what she had confided in me.
Sincerely,
Stephen Miller, BS; AS; Retired
What has President Nelson said in every general conference since he became president of the church? It will be impossible to survive spiritually in these last days without the constant guide of the Holy Ghost and focusing on Jesus Christ, and that it is imperative to have our own relationship with him.
"Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." I am learning more and more what this actually means, and I fear the identitarians will never get it. It's actually easier to find than I ever thought, but sadly missed by those who don't look in the right direction. Literally right there for everyone to grab ("whosoever would look... might live"), but they don't do it ("they would not look").
They lose sight that there's an afterlife. When that happens eternal perspective goes as well.
I can understand that, but remember that many people don’t see beyond themselves, only right what’s in front of them. Teenagers my age and even younger adults just don’t have to capacity to comprehend what they do not understand, therefore they refuse to try.
@@fricklet9684 I've seen a lot of adults lose sight of it as well. They start to empathize with people in the LGBTQ community. Our stance can seem unfair and even harsh if there wasn't an afterlife. Also when one loses faith in an afterlife hope dies as well
The Book of Mormon is true. All the story Joseph Smith told is true. There's no getting around my knowledge of those facts. The TRUTH is liberating.
Amen and amen
Joseph Smith and countless others died for this truth. He knew it and He knew that God knew it.
Book of Norman is a fraud & so is Smith
@@jpowers667 You seem super convinced,
I know your wrong, but you do you
@@DavidNellTheHarbinger We all come to knowledge & truth at our own pace. We need to seek truth, right vs wrong, etc., our whole lives. We all never stop learning if we're open to it in all subjects.
It’s been like this from day one. People are just waking up to it now. The world is going through The Great Awakening.
I stumbled on your podcast. I find your incite to the social evils so spot on. You mentioned the BOM and the believers of Social Justice. They will not accept the BOM. That is a record of my people. We had dealings with the Creator (Jesus). We know He will come again, we know He came, our elders have told us that. Most social justice crusaders seem to be White, with a few Blacks. It's the arrogance of these people who think we Natives do not have any belief system!
I left the church and had my name removed from the membership rolls because I did what the church suggested and I searched the scriptures and also the history of the LDS church and came to the conclusion that it was not the church of Christ as it claimed to be. I do not regret this.
You didn’t do what the leaders suggested.
When you were a member, did you feel God’s help in your life? Do you feel God’s help in the same way now?
I will never leave Christ's church. "All in" until the end.
@@danite1742 Sarcasm.
@@danite1742 I fully agree. I just wasn't sure if you were a nonbeliever being sarcastic. Thanks for clarifying your stance on the matter.
I actually came across someone on CZcams who argued the point of not wanting to be a member of the Church, yet still able receive all of the blessings. Kind of like faith without works.
To whom shall we go?
I thought I would share my search for God’s direction. I have always had a strong faith in God and have received many witnesses both subtle and profound of God’s love and plan for His children. I served a mission 1971 to 1973. My wife and I have been temple married since 1977. We have 4 children and 10 grandchildren. Before my mission I confided that I didn’t feel it was pleasing to God that an entire race from God’s most cherished blessings. That a loving God would not condemn a race for thousands of years. Finally when the church changed this position in 1978 it’s explanation that the church leaders had to plead with God for the change painted a picture of a God who was pleased with this old doctrine and that church leadership was actually more compassionate than God Himself. I find this doctrine even more reprehensible than the original. How can we have faith in a God to be compassionate and forgiving when He would condone such a doctrine…..If God would judge descendants based on skin color how can we ever hope for compassion and forgiveness when we have fallen short for actual sins and not just where were born? We have no hope for grace from such a God as this. I have talked to my bishops and stake presidents seeking understanding why the church has never disavowed this doctrine …..makes me feel like the leaders really do believe that God was pleased with this doctrine…..that their God really is a bigot or that they love a past prophet BY more than God. It is sad to think that the church I have connected with all my life thinks that God is like this. I am sure God is not pleased with how the church has drug its feet and clung to this doctrine
The foundation of where we are now was laid long ago. After reading the Joseph Smith Foundation Faith Crisis series I no longer wonder how we got here. It’s been revolutionary having this background and knowledge.
Certainly the adversary would save his most brilliant machinations for the last days. Stay true brothers and sisters. The Church is true!
@@danite1742 it’s Jesus who saves through HIS life, atonement and resurrection. HIS gospel and saving ordinances are taught through HIS true church. HE utilizes prophets and apostles as HIS mouthpieces on earth. If you have any questions, please refer to the Old Testament and New Testament. Or you may refer yourself to the other books of Holy Scripture that HE has given to us through modern prophets.
@@danite1742 before moving forward, how do you define salvation?
For the record, if anyone reads these messages, there was a coward trying to undermine the church and undermine the message I was trying to convey. This coward has since erased his messages, making it look like I was messaging myself. Should he ever come back to this message thread, let him read one word: PITIFUL.
I thought so too until a month ago. When studying archeology I discovered that intelligent children of God have been on Earth for hundreds of thousands of years, not at all what the BOM or D&C says. Then I learned that Joseph Smith did not "translate" the BOM from golden plates, like I sang about and was taught throughout my life. NOPE! He put his head in a hat and used a rock to narrate a story. OMG!
I dedicated my life to what I was led to believe was, "truth." I wore garments, paid tithing when I had to take a cash advance to cover rent. I served in callings. My world crumbled as I took my questions directly to God. No. God does not live on a planet near Kolab.
My world crumbled. Devastation. Disillusionment. Completely lost and wanted to end my own life.
When LDS people take the sacrament, they covenant to, "Comfort those who stand-in need of comfort. Mourn with those that mourn. Bear one another's burdens." Pointing a finger at the truth seekers? It takes a great deal of courage to walk away. Reading the comments here are so far removed from anybody who would be keeping their baptismal covenants, to love others as Jesus loves.
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@@lorijohnston7795 Jesus loves you Lori
How do you explain away The Book of Mormon?
I have read the Bible cover-to-cover more than once and I get a lot of mistranslations and missing books mentioned throughout the Bible.
The Book of Mormon delivers when it comes to a clean translation and gospel truths lacking in the Bible.
Where is the Atonement in the Bible? The most important principle and the reason the Savior came to earth and the Bible falls flat. Read from The Book of Mormon Alma 42 if you want to read a beautiful discourse on the role of justice and mercy than ask yourself where in the Bible can I find this same discourse?
I've never seen or heard any reason to leave the church to which I converted over 40 years ago.
And I've seen most things.
Either the restoration and book of Mormon is true or its not.
Ideology changes
People should feel free to question everything, especially their own beliefs and update their priors based on better evidence. You must always be willing to consider evidence that contradicts your beliefs, and admit the possibility that you may be wrong. Intelligence isn’t knowing everything, it’s the ability to challenge everything you know.
Agreed.
I love your Lehis dream analogy. That's how I felt when everyone was pointing at me and others. That prayed and reached out to the Lord. For an answer about what to do during the pandemic. We got our answer and made our choice. We were looked down upon for not following the majority. I only did what Heavenly Father told me to do. I never judged others about there decision or who was right or wrong. Everyone has there free will and free agency to choose what's best for them.
Is there any actual data to support these arguments?
A lot.
@@CwicShow What is one of the better surveys or studies for LDS specific data?
@@matthafen6920 The best one is an internal poll of 1,000 YSA members that I have seen.
Are the results of this poll available to the members?
@@matthafen6920 I do not think so. I know of them only through the person in charge of the poll.
Best comments on why people are leaving. Wow you show the same thing in Alma. The Book of Mormon really is for our day
Very well said. I see it as the weaponization of compassion.