Building a Sway Bar (whether we should or not) - Pro Touring V8 Triumph Build - Project GT6R - Ep19
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Today we're tackling the front anti-roll bar (sway bar... roll bar... whatever!)... and I'd love to say it's just a matter of bolting one up, but sadly it's a bit more involved than that...
The original GT6 bar might have worked for us, but sadly, we kind of sold it with the rest of the drivetrain without realizing. Oops. Buying a replacement was an option, but the main issue we face is we really need a specific shape to fit our new suspension components. That, and we also need something that has a suitable stiffness to work the new suspension geometry.
Sooo... I guess we need to build one! Now there are splined aftermarket sway-bar kits you can buy to get you on the right direction, but some of what I came across in my research were weld-together designs. So we figured, let's save some cash and just build the parts ourselves!
Will it work? I think so. If not though, at least there are other options.
Helpful forums/articles for building a custom (DIY) sway-bar :
www.gtsparkplug...
www.whiteline....
forum.miata.ne...
www.industrial...
Frankly, we may not even need an anti-roll bar at all in the end, as we have improved our center of gravity, suspension geometry, and will have better adjustable shock absorbers to help fine tune things later on!
If you're new, our 1971 Triumph GT6 is receiving a transplanted 5.3l LS4 V8 and Mustang T5 gearbox... among others things... like a Corvette Dana 36 differential... and a bellhousing from a Jeep. So. It's not exactly your typical Triumph.
Next time we'll be sorting out the LS4 to T5 conversion, so SUBSCRIBE so you don't miss anything!
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#ProjectGT6 #LSswapped #GT6R #Restomod #FanatikBuilds #CorvetteParts #homebuilt #engineswap #hotrodding #lsx
#lsswaptheworld #customchassis #fabrication
We’re just a couple of guys (not trained mechanics) who enjoy problem solving, creating new things, and showing you how we did it. We can’t promise that anything we do will work for your project, or that you, someone else, or your warranty will not be harmed or affected by doing it too. Please work responsibly and do not mess around with machinery that you are not comfortable with, even if we made it look easy!
Edit, Jacob Hendry below pointed out that I got the stress vs strain defenitions reversed... Not sure how I managed that! Thanks for the heads up!*
Well... this was surprisingly interesting! It may not look like much, but getting this done is a huge weight off our shoulders, and means we can push on with the next step. Ep20 is going to be BIG! Thanks as always to our awesome Patreons, your support is really appreciated! www.patreon.com/FanatikBuilds
Looking forward to it! You’re doing a great job! I love the GT6 and yours will be very special indeed! Always thought Triumph should have fitted the Rover / Buick V8 instead of wasting their time developing the Stag with its weird looks and that peculiar engine but I guess it was a case of Not Invented Here Syndrome. Mind you, the original GT6 engine did sound gorgeous! Keep up the great work! 👍
@@andylewis7360 Thanks Andy! A number of years ago, Jeremy Clarkson did a documentary on who killed the british motor industry, and the Triumph V8 was sadly an example of the poor decisions that helped seal the fate :( ... it's worth a watch if you haven't seen it already! We know the owners of a couple of original GT6s in town, and I do agree, they sounded lovely! Hope you'll enjoy what's to come, cheers!
@@FanatikBuilds Yup! I watched the Clarkson documentary. I also follow @BigCar, who does some great marque histories here in YT. Pleased to say the British car industry is still pretty healthy but unfortunately the volume car brands are foreign nowadays, of not foreign-owned. We still have plenty of technology though. Most of the F1 teams and racecar brands. And a healthy conversation industry. Check out @Retropower on YT. Their restomods are second to none! Cheers! ☺️👍🏻
@@andylewis7360 That's great! I'm glad the industry is still doing well over there, albeit with a few less brands than we grew to love over the years! Donut Media did a very interesting video on what killed Canada's car brands, and you may find that interesting as well! Yep, already follow Retropower, they have some amazing projects going on! All the best man! :)
@@FanatikBuilds Thanks! I’ll check that Donut video out - although I do prefer your style to theirs! :-D. Cheers!
2:32 I see you are also a fan of This Old Tony
He's high in my top favorite channels, hoped some people would notice the nod to him here 😄 cheers Blake!
Talking to yourself is one of the signs of madness, I think we all would enjoy some of your madness to build such a awesome GT6. Keep the madness and we will keep watching 😜
It's ok to talk to yourself... it's even ok to argue with yourself... it's when you start losing the arguments that you should be concerned! 👍
Another great episode. Keep doing what you’re doing, and you’ll have a stunning car 👍👍
Thanks Jonathan! We really appreciate the kind words and support! 👍
Great information love the real engineering in layman applications with migraine welder. People will say how it's wrong ect. But real world will be fine. Look at weld quality on some old circle track builds and you will see some scary stuff but realize its lasted many races and was built in a farmer's barn and is still functioning.
Thank you William! Yep, here's hoping everything will work out fine 🤞😬😄 cheers!
Arghh! So interesting the video seemed only a couple minutes long! I had to look to see how long it actually was. Fifteen minutes!? No way! Great work, I loved every minute. I can hardly wait to see the next episode!
That's great to hear Jim, my goal is to leave people wanting more, rather than being bored out of their mind! 😄 I appreciate the kind words and hope you're doing well! 👍
that anti roll bar looks extremely neat
Thank you! It's appreciated! :)
@@FanatikBuilds actually I should expand on that. It's great because it's neat, yes. But also its a great example of how such a thing could be created at home without access to specialist bending machines and spring steels. Round tube and steel plate is all you need!
@@Mr_Spegru Thanks! That's the idea, and there is so much back and forth information as to whether it will really work or not ... but, at the end of the day, we've got this now, and we'll at least give it a solid run and see how it does! Here's hoping all will work out fine! :) Cheers man!
I am enjoying the build, I did have to do a double take when you showed your pipe bender "power fist"!
Good old Princess Auto! 👍
I gotta say, this might be the cleanest and most professional feeling part created for this build so far
Cheers man! Although I was pretty proud of the cradle too! 😬👍
Watching you guys is like going to grad school. I can see it; but I can't quite touch it. Great work and keep it up!
Haha, cheers Andy! 😄
A carbon tube in one piece could be fabricated instead of the compound steel item - those arms look very heavy and potentially susceptible to twist on their own. Just a thought. I think not having one at the back is fine, the car is so light and narrow. We're all waiting with baited breath her for this to move under it's own steam! Great video.
Thanks Bob! Actually the whole thing is pretty light, I'd say about 5lbs at a guess. The outer arms twisting before the main tube is a real concern though, we built them about as beefy as we dared though and are just hoping for the best! If it doesn't work out, we'll have to try something else! A carbon one would be very cool 😎
Haha, you all and us too! Cheers! 👍
Micheal- you need to check back in your family tree, - I’m sure the name Ackerman features in there somewhere ha ha! Another nice job buddy (and Dad of course 😊) stay safe and well both. 👍🇬🇧
Thanks for the laugh Phil, I needed that today! We're so glad to be done with the majority of the hard calculations - my head hurts!! Great hearing from you, and I hope you and your family over there are doing well too sir! 😄👍
Thanks for the hard work, i'm restomoding a 1962 TR4 and you are paving a great path.
Thanks Rich, it's appreciated, hope you'll enjoy the rest of the project! Have fun with your TR4, I've always loved those! 👍
Ryan George, Julie Nolkie, and Fanatik Builds. The harsh Canadian winters really take their toll on your sanity up there that talking to yourselves takes on a physical manifestation.
Either that, or maybe it's those darn new 5G networks... you never know! ;)
More excellent work on this terrific little car - well done!
Thanks Max, we appreciate it! 👍
As well as being a rod or tube anti roll bars cab be flat. You can also combine a tube and flat or rod bar, one inside the other to make an adjustable anti roll bar. They are fixed together at one end and can be clamped or un clamped at the other. Great video and I like your humour. It is going to be a great car.
That's very true and very interesting! Thanks John, I'm glad you are enjoying what we're up to 😄 cheers 👍
Looks good and I'm sure that bar will work. But just so you know you can buy straight sway bars with splined ends to put your own arms on. They are typically used for off road applications but I think one may work for your application if that tube doesn't work out
Thanks Kevin! Yes I looked into those, specifically a cut-to-length version... it seemed quite expensive for what it was though, and the one end must be welded on anyway, so we just thought, why not save some cash and weld on both sides!
It's always an option for the future though if need be! Cheers! 👍
Atlast a new episode has "rolled" around, nothing could "sway" me away this morning lol
*Ba-dum-dum-tis!* :)
I am enjoying, of precise work. Well done Guys.
Thank you very much! We appreciate it!
Another great episode, thank you.
Couple of counterpoints (respectfully):
Anti roll bars INCREASE load on the outside tire, not decrease. When the bar loads up it unloads the inside wheel causing the outside to do more work. This why some race cars will actually lift the inside tire off the road. Think dirt modifieds, sprint cars some Porsche 911s, and some drift cars. The end, usually rear, that has less roll stiffness will have more grip because the load is shared more evenly between each side. This equates to more drive. For context; I built and raced stock cars back-in-the-day, FWIW.
Anti roll bars control body roll. "Sway bar" is an unfortunate term that isn't even applicable. They have no influence on sway. Again, love the series. Respect to you for what you accomplish with minimal resources. 👍
Ok, I really need to hire some script writers! Thanks for the clarification Dan, makes sense and I can only blame too many late nights! 🤗👍
Great work guys, the fabrication and engineering are top notch!
Thanks David, we appreciate it! 😄👍
Dude for a first time experiment on a sway bar turned out just peachy and looks great 😁😁🤘🤘🤘🤘
Thanks Karl! It looks the part, hopefully it does it's job! :) Cheers 👍
You guys are as good at your videos as anybody out there! I very much enjoy watching your channel.
Very kind of you Gordon, thanks, I'm glad you are enjoying the project!
Great fabrication!
Thanks sir! Great hearing from you! 👍
Not really sure you actually need one on this car, but better to have made the brackets for one. Easier to remove later than add later. Once its running I would try it without. Sway or Anti Roll bars help normal road cars deal with the compromise between comfort and handling. They help reduce roll induced understeer, but on a well sorted suspension with not too much travel they will actually tend to lighten the load on the inside front wheel lessening grip. It all depends on the types of roads you want it for. The GT6 is very low and with your design the CG will be low and the nearer it gets to the roll centre the less you need the anti roll bar. Also you have put a lot of work into sorting the front suspension and that will pay dividends in how this car handles. Have you seen the book "Competition Car Suspension, Design, Construction and Tuning by Allan Staniforth" Love the fabrication, but not sure I missed a bit of detail in the Video. After seam welding the arms on is the final end tube only on with two plug welds? The other option would have been too find a bar that had ends to do the job and cut and sleeve in the middle to adjust the width. The torsion wouldn't be taken linearly throughout the length as the sleeved bit would be a bit stiffer. That used to be an old cheat for stiffening up a bar. Excellent fabrication as usual.
Thanks very much for the info and thought Sean, it's really helpful and very appreciated! 👍 I think you make a great point, and as another viewer mentioned, we might also build mounting brackets for a rear bar just so we have options later on. Not running one at all would honestly be the best solution if we can get away with it though - we're waiting until we know the weight distribution more accurately before buying springs/shocks, but the model I'm eyeing should give us some nice adjustability... So here's hoping it all works out!
Sorry for the confusion, I ran out of footage so had to summarize the welding part more than I was planning to. The arms were fully welded to the main tube, then the smaller end stops were slid into place, gone round a second time, and finally plug welded in three spots.
The cut and sleeve was a technique I came across and would have loved to use, but felt the necessary shape of the arms would make finding a donor a bit of a headache!
Thanks again, cheers! 👍
Great stuff. Always look forward to your updates.
Thank you James, glad to hear from you!
& now for a bow to This Old Tony! I do like your wit. About your anti-sway bar build, since you asked: So long as you know the Modulus of Elasticity of the material chosen (depends on it's k factor), you should be golden. You cannot know if your calculated rate suits your needs until you drive the car - so, by all means, forge ahead!
Also, did I detect a hint of Stefan Gotteswinter during your upside down drilling?
Amazing like every episode, grettings from Mendoza, Argentina👏
Thanks Fran! All the best from Ontario Canada! 👍🇨🇦
Love how clean you work is very impressive. you should enter InterNETional Car Show 2021 Bad Obsession Motorsport is judging Bracketry its being hosted by debossgarage.
Thanks Marc! I have actually entered it, not expecting anything but thought it would be fun! There are some amazing projects on there so far! Cheers 👍
@@FanatikBuilds Ask your Fans to vote. I will !
@@marcs8975 I think I may do that, thanks Marc! 😊
@@marcs8975 Don't tell Nik this , but some of us have already figured to vote more than once. Without the YT Algorithm to keep tally, he only has our word for it!
Quite extraordinary process you've followed! Specs, angles, measurements, etc., all very complex. Be interested in know more about your background--mechanical engineering I would guess??? Thanks for another great video.
Thanks Lynn! I'm trained as an Industrial Millwright but most of what we're doing in this project is self taught from a lot of research online! Every hour of work in the videos is a small portion of the time it took to get to that point :) Cheers! 👍
Well you’re going faster than BoM! Well done lads, this is an epic project
It's because we don't drink quite so much tea! 😉 Cheers man, we appreciate it!
@@FanatikBuilds The lemon squash doesn't seem to slow the "Stalians down much, though! There just may be something to what Richard said about Ep.5 about "over thought, over engineered, over built , and he just needs to get over it!" That's how I remember it anyway. FR
@@FanatikBuilds well you just earned a new Patron, but some teabags! 😂👍🫖
@@baronvonteuchter1412 Thank you very much for the support man! Means a lot! 😄👍
14:35 Sway-a-Way makes various torsion bars for numerous makes/models. Aston Martin rear torsion are 30.68", a dirt modified is 29" and a sprint car is 30". Many of the older VW/Porsche 911 were in the 24-25" range also. Also Currie Enterprises also make torsion bars for Jeeps, with the shortest being 26" or 32".
Very helpful info, appreciate it! Clearance to the tie-rods and frame will be the issue, but we'll likely come back to re-address this later on. Cheers Robert 👍
Great! Design and problem solving, well done……Len
Thank you Len, it's appreciated! 👍
Looking good. Interested to see the next episode as I know jack about the LS engines. Not somthing we see a lot of in Blightly.
Thanks Alex! There's some good info in episode 10, but we'll cover it more in the future! Next episode will be dealing with the LS"4" very specifically, and should be pretty interesting! Cheers 👍
I enjoy watching you do this project and I'm sure you get enough comments on what you should have done with the fabrication tasks. And don't worry, I not going to do that.
But......
I do like the graphics and
Science lessons . You 're doing a good job.
Haha, thanks Phillip, the sway bar is one area we'll likely need to come back to... though I'm also curious if we can get away without running one at all. Time will tell! Thanks for the encouragement and I'm really glad you're enjoying what we're up to! Cheers man 👍
while the frame is still bare, putting mounting points on the rear for the optional bracket could be a good idea. I've done the front, front/rear, solely rear sway bar setups and my opinion is two, smaller ones is better then one bigger one. Why? well, I'm glad you asked - when you mat the throttle with that LS in a light car - you'll unload the inside wheel, especially on corners. A sway bar on the back aids in that.... the converse, why not put a sway bar - traction, again. if you tie the rear together, when you hit the berm on the apex, it could unload the weighted side as well - which, while spectacular to watch, is not optimal (to borrow your term)... kind of defeats the whole point of the weight and complexity of IRS when you tie it together like a solid axle.....
Thanks for the thought Aaron, I think that's a great idea! We will definitely have to plan to leave room for a rear bar as a "just in case" eventuality. Sean Kearney in another comment thinks we may even be able to get away without sway bars altogether, so I think somewhere in here, there should be a perfect solution!
Cheers man! 👍
Your work has always been exceptional, especially for a ten foot wide home garage. But this? For the first time I’m really taken aback. This is genius. Inspirational even. I’m doing one for my build. ASAP. What is that tube?
Do as we say, not as we do Scotty!! 😬 But thanks, glad to have sparked an idea for you! I appreciate the kind words 😊
The material is simply 1.125" drawn over mandrel tubing with an 0.125" wall... There is a sway bar calculator tool linked in the description that can help you determine the rate based of your dimensions... Best to get an idea of how much of an increase you will potentially be making before going through the hassle of fabrication! Cheers! 👍
@@FanatikBuilds I’m going schedule 40 pipe, 1/4 inch steel for the arms and pillow block bearings. Thanks man.
@@scottycollins131 Just fyi, it's best to use DOM tubing as there's no weld seam... pipe starts as a flat sheet which gets butt welded together creating a weak point that could crack! Cheers 👍
@@FanatikBuilds Yeah. There’s a risk but I already have all this pipe.
@@scottycollins131 Worth a shot then! 👍
Another informative and well put together episode, of course. Great job, seriously great job.
Thanks man, it's appreciated! 👍
Post heat the weld affected area to overcome welding concerns.
I'm also not sure you needed to go stiffer than original. It depends on roll centre location and spring stiffness. But you really can't know until you drive it. So you've got to start somewhere. If it's over steery or under steery then you can adjust.
Interesting... would a propane torch be adequate to post-heat it? That's really all we have. :(
You are likely right, I was going off the MX5 having options in this size, but of course our suspension geometry is completely different... very valid point. I think you've hit the nail though, it's a starting point and once it's on the road we can figure out if anything needs to change. Cheers man 👍
@@FanatikBuilds Might be enough. Build a furnace out of spare bricks and do one end at a time.
Get it to at least cherry red and hold there for long enough for soak. Then put it in some vermiculite to slowly cool.
Can't hurt.
Really like your approach. I am in NC and so I am near a few Nascar teams. They use a piece like yours, but with splines like an axle shaft. This allows you to change rates and have a flexible mount style where you welded. Just food for thought if you run into issues with this one.
Thanks man, I saw a few DIY kits where one side was splined and the other was a weld on fitting (cut to length deal) ... figured if welding was fine for the one side, why not both! Saved some cash but we'll see if it holds up long term. Our TIG welder (purchased after this video) would do a better job on a redo 👌✌️
Excellent again. As always.
Awesome! Did I spot a Tamiya Touring Car Tune Set spring on the table? Yeah I'm into rc's :-)
Lol, how on earth could you tell it was a tuning spring for a Tamiya! 😁 Yes it's from my old TT-01! Can't remember if you've been following since my RC days or not (sorry!) but if you haven't, you might enjoy some of my older videos! Cheers man! 👍
@@FanatikBuilds Yep, think the rc stuff is what made me find your channel :-)
Lol, there is not that many yellow springs for rc cars, at least not for touring cars. Carson is one of the few I think beside Tamiya.
I own lot of Tamiya stuff, most of them the vintage stuff.
Also own a set of those tuning spring sets. My current TL01 to M chassis spec project do feature TA03 Super Low Friction Dampers with the tuning springs fitted.
Can't wait for the next video. Greetings from Norway :-)
That's awesome, sorry to have forgotten :) I love that you knew all that from the spring being yellow - amazing - it was my first "kit" rc and is still in good shape, just doesn't get used anymore sadly. My vintage is with NiMh batteries, and every cell I own is pretty much toast at this point - never got around to switching to LiPo... heard they are amazing!
Always appreciate hearing from you man! All the best from Ontario, Canada!
Actually, we built one in the 70s. Worked well, until it was explained to us that a too stiff of a rear suspension made for worse handling, so we a) felt stupid and b) removed it. But you can build one. Yes, I see that you did. Well done!
Haha, I know the feeling! Thanks Pat, appreciate it! 😊👍
When you started with "You Can't Do That" I thought "on Television." But I'm old. lol Also, was that a This Old Tony nod around 6:34?
Haha, thanks Jay! Yes, he's among my favorite creators on CZcams! Glad some people noticed the nod! 😄 Hope you're doing well! 👍
I gotta admit, when I first started watching your videos...I thought you had a twin brother...Took me a while to pick up on your humor(ok, I'm slow)
Another well thought out solution to problems associated with a build like this. Where did you source the end links? They almost look cheesy compared to your huge bar...Another great vid, can't wait for more!
Haha, cheers Bruce! 😉
Believe it or not, those are factory Crown Victoria end-links! Dad also thought they look a bit weedy, but they're metal, and since they're rated for a Vic, we should be fine! 😂 Cheers👍
@@FanatikBuilds Some long time back, I asked an older fiend, much wiser in the ways of autos about those "weedy" links and he said, with a straight face mind you, that if you hit a particularly nasty bump on one side, the link would bend or break before the much more expensive sway bar. What he said, and I've never had any reason to doubt it but that's all I've got. FR
Sweet content 🤙
Thank you Jeff, it is appreciated! 👍
This is one of the best projects out there ! And your videos are easy to understand!
Really appreciate that John! Thanks!
Dam thats alot of work 👍
It was a bit, yes! :) Cheers Victor!
your whole series is a whos who vignette of restomod and canadian content creators. TOT would be proud, next hit up your AvE inner coaster
Haha, thanks Ian! 👍
Good old Power Fist :)
Where would we all be if it wasn't for Princess Auto or Harbor Freight! 😄
That is going to be a fun car
I hope you're right!! It's been enough work! 🤪👍
A very BOM opening i love this series so much.
Great work, video and every entertaining!!!! Thank you.
Haha, hard to imagine building a roll-bar as entertaining, but I'm glad I succeeded in trying! 😊 Thanks!
@@FanatikBuilds Not just the roll bar, the overall build.
@@ts302 Well thanks man, really appreciate it! 😊
Speedway Engineering makes swaybars and arms in may different diameters and lengths that are splined. These are common in stock car and road racing and you can get custom lengths built.
Thanks Joel, we looked into some different kits, and at the time didn't find quite what we needed in a price that felt reasonable. Also, the cut-to-length kits still require welding one end on, so we figured if the weld is the weak point, it will break with one, just as easily as it would with two ... so why not save the cash and build one from scratch! We'll see if that was a good idea in the long run though, lol 👍
I recognise those black sweater sleeves. Been channeling your inner This Old Tony lately? :-D
😄 glad you noticed the nod to him! I love his content! Cheers man!
You've got a nice blend of fingers print shop and this old tony
With an affinity for captive nuts that rivals bad obsession motorsports
Being compared to any one of those channels is compliment enough, let alone all three of them! :) Cheers!
It's good I hope you pull some more views
@@thedukeofarchibauld Thank you, I hope so too! If you know anyone who you think would enjoy it, please feel free to tell them, word of mouth is very helpful! 👍
There has to be another channel that would forge a spring steel sway bar for you. Black bear forge comes to mind.
That would be very cool, but I have a feeling it might be a bit cost prohibitive for us! If this doesn't work out in the long run though, it may be something we need to look into!
This thing should be an absolute monster. Muscle cars beware of this Triumph.
Well, we'll see! It should have a pretty decent power to weight ratio... I think it will be a matter of putting said power to the ground that will be fun! :) Cheers 👍
If you let the welds cool slowly it will actually not Harden and it will Anil and be softer than a spring steel means it's more likely to bend than break
I still want this to be comfortable as well as handle properly
So do we! That's the plan... maybe we went a bit overkill on the bar, but we could always make a smaller one someday if we just don't like how firm it is! 👍
Progressing nicely.
Thank you Ralph! Appreciate it!
It's been good to watch your work mate, i'm in the process of cutting out every bit of rot in my Spitifre right now, although many body panel's i'm able to replace with much smaller hand made panel's, have a peek at what i'm up too, any advise from what you see i'v done would be awesome, wishing you both the very best with your project, Steve
Looks really good. I am a bit grumpy - I am subscribed and I have the bell clicked and I still didn’t see this video for four days :(
I get really frustrated with CZcams ... this is unacceptable. Thanks for letting me know Matt, as I'm sure you're not alone! Cheers 👍
Hi, me again. I would advise against having so much roll stiffness on the front axle and little on the rear. Depends on your static weight distribution of course, but it seems it will be front heavy. In short, this wil mean understeer on corner entry and snap oversteer when accelerating from the apex because of the grip (tire load) imbalance brought by the roll stiffness difference. (parallel to any dynamic chances).
Thanks Paris, our weight distribution should be closer to 50/50 actually (at least closer than it was from factory) but I still tend to agree that this may have been a bit overkill. We don't plan on tracking the car (much) but still don't want to it be unpredictable on the roads either. Think we'll have to come back and readdress this later on 👍 cheers!
@@FanatikBuilds cheers! Really appreciate the effort towards the science in your build. I just saw your latest upload and realised that you were already on the right ...track... considering the tire load. Understeer is always a safe set up for the road, just if you want to extract some more performance, cause the grip is there you just need to liberate it, or do some skids you'd want to consider some roll stiffness on the rear. Have you also considered the roll line ? And difference in frequency between front and rear?
@@parisrogiest9324 Thank you! Yes we are aiming for a bit of understeer for predictability, but snap oversteer is a concern that I need to remain aware of. I've read so much into chassis and suspension design that my head hurts, but I'm positive I've still missed some stuff! I do however think that we're close enough on the really important areas we need to get on the road, and hopefully a few tweaks here and there are all that's needed to dial it in! 🤞😄
Nice, make the end links adjustable, at least one of them.
We really wanted to, and did have an additional hole to soften the rate at one point, but unfortunately it just didn't clear the steering knuckles so had to cut it off. Any hole drilled at this point would only stiffen the rate, and I don't think that's going to be necessary! We'll find out though someday I guess! Cheers 👍
@@FanatikBuilds
Yes, that would have been sweet but I ment the length of the drop links so you can adjust out any preload in the swaybar.
@@mawe42 Ah I see, interesting, I could see how that could help. Not sure how I'd build that, but appreciate the idea! 👍
Did you look into after market sway bar kits - i.e. Jeg's, Summit Racing... ? That's a pretty common part to buy custom, for racing and off-roading.
Yes we did, most of what I came across that would fit were cut-to-length kits - requiring welding of one side. We just thought we'd save some money and weld both sides, as if the welds are the weak point, it conceivably makes very little difference if there's one or two! (at least in my head) Cheers man 👍
@@FanatikBuilds Guess I was thinking of the splined kits for racing. Summit does list a kit for GT6, but there is no image. 1971 TRIUMPH GT6 Addco Performance Anti-Sway Bar Kits 707
That was very interesting and very informative but all I could think of was. I wonder what RC is that spring from? 😁
Haha, it's a spare one from a hop-up set on an old Tamiya TT-01 😄 cheers Steve!
Hope you kept a list of unfinished welds! :)
The sway/anti-roll bar should be considered as a fine tuning aid for the suspension and cannot be assessed at the outset without some very sophisticated software. The goal with most suspension design is to achieve the ideal arrangement without the need for an anti-roll bar. You will find that when designing competition car suspension the anti-roll bar has a good deal of adjustment built in from full effect of the torsion bar to almost nothing using a blade type actuator that in some cars can actually be adjusted on the move to dial in the correct assistance to suit particular conditions. My guess would be that your anti-roll bar would be too stiff and the car will understeer heavily, given that the car is so light. The GT6 had a relatively light anti-roll bar and that was considering it had a heavy 6 cylinder cast iron engine and a rear suspension that was prone to oversteer. Yours ought not to have the same propensity to oversteer and thus you should not need to counter that with greater front end understeer, especially as the front end weight will not be much worse than the original GT6
This is very interesting Clive - thank you for sharing! I was going based off options available for Miata's, but as you say, we do have entirely different suspension geometry. I think the bar we've got right now shall serve as a placeholder, until we get the car on the roads and know for sure what needs to happen. With some adjustable coil-overs, we may not need one at all! Thanks! :)
I dont know why you haven't had way more views
We're a bit annoyed to be completely honest! If you could, please tell some of your friends about the project, as word of mouth is more helpful than you'd realize! Cheers Paul! 👍
try speedway motors they have all the parts you can use for a sway bar.. even a hollow one..i am making on for my 1984 alfa romeo spider..they even have the arms in the size that you can use
Thanks Randell, we did look around and it just seemed the options available were very expensive for what it was... often the cut-to-length kits require welding on one end anyway, so we just thought why not weld both ends and save the cash! If this doesn't work out though, it's a great option for a replacement unit in the future! Cheers! 👍
Did you try to estimate the front and rear total body roll to make sure that huge front ARB doesn’t give you tragic understeer? I had a Subaru Sti v6 a few years back and was amazed at the effect going up 2mm on the front and rear roll bars made. Went back to oem size on the front and it was great 👍
I must be honest man... I have no idea where to start estimating total body roll! I know our new suspension geometry and roll-centers should be decent, the center of gravity has been lowered quite a bit, and our (not yet purchased) adjustable coil-overs should all mean it won't lean too much... but we were really going off what is used in Miata's as we are estimating our final weight will be similar to them. I have owned a couple of STIs myself so nice to meet a fellow enthusiast! :) They do typically understeer quite a bit... and I remember from a brother's older Impreza that a thicker rear bar helped a lot! With the GT6, I'm hoping understeer won't be a huge issue as we're mainly going to use it as a country cruiser, and we always can stab the loud pedal if we need the rear to come out ;)
ahhh. The power fist bender. yic yic
Where would we all be if it weren't for Princess Auto and Harbor Freight! 😄👍
Probably would have been easier to cut to size before bending to shape. Enjoying the build series!
We thought about that, but it would have made the bending a bit harder as we would have lost a good reference of what was "straight" to keep all the small bend adjustments square and true! It was a little fun to cut it out as a curved piece though, you're right! Cheers man 👍
I have little sympathy for your experience with left handed drilling- I am left handed and through living in a world full of very right handed problems designed by right handed engineers, I'm sure, have a very high function right hand to go with my primary left handedness! But you got it done, huh! It's looking more and more like a running car- lots of fiddly bits coming together. Soon you will come to know the joy of wiring, and a joy, indeed, it is. You will remember all those words your mother told you not to use- don't lie, you will! And won't be half done before you do. But, Fanatik, you will do what you always seem to do- you will do it anyway! Good on Ya'! PS; When Nik Blackhurst thinks the Go Pro isn't looking he gets up a pretty blue streak, so don't feel to bad! FR
Lol, one of my brothers is a lefty as well, and I do sympathize for you! Even seemingly normal things like computer mice or scissors just don't work as well in the left hand... it's really insane to be honest! Yep, we're looking forward to those next stages, lots to learn! Plenty more fabrication first though :) Cheers Frederic 👍
@@FanatikBuilds Actually, my leftyness wasn't much handicap for my mouse use; when I screw up, I am dependent on my right handed cousin to "fix" it. She invariably screws up the hand change control so I just quit using the left option and use the right hand option for my mouse. It was a snap compared to having to unwind her handed control change. To be fair, I'm using Win 7 as my operating system, so her mix up may be may fault too. And most of us lefties don't really need much sympathy- we know we are superior! Cheers to you and your dad! FR
what a week to stop sniffing glue ...
Lol 👍
Anti-roll /sway bar's 😊
That car is gonna be worth $70k, maybe more, by the time you are done.
To quote Napoleon Dynamite... "That's like a dollar an hour!" 😬😉
No idea what it'll be worth, but it's priceless to me! Cheers man! 👍
Well, if you were Chip Foose, you'd have all the right tools and machines to do it in half the time!
@@1htalp9 Foose is such a legend! I'd love to have 1/10 of his skills and tools! 😄
Second moment of inertia is key
Indeed 🧐😎
Hey, great idea, and good job. Did you/are you going to measure the bars stiffness?
So this was long enough ago I've forgotten the specifics 😅 ... but at 5:40 I walk through a bit of what we used to take a "best educated guess" ... no idea how I'd actually test our real-life stiffness, but when the car hits the roads we may get our answer!! Cheers man 👊
"Your car probably doesn't have springs made of plastic." *corvette and astro van enter the chat*
Lol, I know! The C4 rear end we're using had a composite leaf spring originally! Sounds like crazy talk to me 😂👍
@@FanatikBuilds What's even crazier was the astro van using em with a live axle! They used the composite transverse leaf on vettes all the way til the C7, in fact the C8 is the first vette to have no leaf springs.
@@Levibetz I didn't know about the Astro - good old GM, always ready to try a new idea at least! :)
People: You cant build your own sway bar.
Fanatik : No, you can't build your own sway bar.
Well yes... and no. But also... no. Let's do it anyway! ;)
Did you weld the nuts to the plate before you welded the plate to the frame?
Oh no!! ... 😉 Yep, no worries there, it sounds like something we'd forget, but thankfully we didn't! Cheers Brad!
Cool my only question is how do you design the optimum sway bar diameter size
Do you think I could use front and rear Swaybars on my Morgan Threewheeler?
Hmm, this will need more coffee...
@@FanatikBuilds OK I´ll supply the Milk and Sugar
The rear sway bar will need to incorporate training wheels!
@@alanm.4298 ah, annd how do you train wheels?
@@h-j.k.8971 With a dog whistle?
Ok, I admit it, I forget! What's the rear suspension on this GT 6? Is it a shotened Vette transverse leaf spring setup?
Some cars don't even use sway bars, the difference between the relatively tail happy Toyota GT 86 and the Subaru BRZ is stiffer rear springs on the Subaru. Thus there is no linking of bumps on one side to the other side as there would be with a sway bar.
@@BobPegram Hi Bob, yes it is a C4 Corvette rear end, however we are not using the transverse leaf spring as we had to narrow the track width a good bit... and don't really think you can narrow a composite leaf spring! Could be wrong though! We're going to convert it to a coil-over setup 👍
Very true on not using a sway bar, I think we've got a good starting point, and after the car's on the road, we can get a better idea of what it could use to fine tune the handling. Cheers!
Out of curiosity, how is the sway bar holding up?
Haven’t been able to test it yet! When the car’s finally on the road we’ll find out… 😬 … if I did it again, I’d drill out the arms to pass the tube through completely, then TIG weld both sides.
goog torsion is shared with Toyota /Mazda
Damn... I'm caught up. Now what?
Haha, I'm afraid you're on the same timeline as the rest of us now man! :)
Just call them "Bra-ounts'!
"Brounts" "Mountkets" ... "holdy things" ... so many options! ;) 👍
l did a ls4 s10 and a ls4 malibu with auto transmissions ,looking to see your starter addaptor
They are definitely not a popular option - cool that you've done it twice! The manual transmission has complicated things a bit, but I'm pretty happy with how it's all turning out. Hope you'll enjoy ep20 when it comes out! 👍
Moroso are now making an ls4 sump with the starter mount built in.
Probably a after market Miata rear swap bar would fit.
Yes I've seen that! Not sure how much it will cost, but pretty sure our solution is cheaper :) ... also, that oil pan wouldn't clear our cradle/subframe so the engine would have to move back further which is not something we want to do for clearance of other areas. The rear Miata bar is a good idea, thanks man! 👍
Since adjustable links did not fit...what is the plan if you need to soften the bar?
... build a new one... 😬 It's unfortunate as I really wanted the extra mounting hole, but at this point we're just going to give it a shot and figure out what needs changing, if anything needs changing, once the car's on the road! Cheers Jim!
@@FanatikBuilds that is unfortunate...I have found that three positions is the sweet spot...it is very hard to decide with no road time on the car. With any luck, you will have chosen wisely the first time.
@@jimf5160 Here's hoping!! 🤞😄
@6:30 has someone been watching This Old Tony?
He's one of my favourite channels! Glad some people have noticed the nod to him here!
@@FanatikBuilds
I bet you watch project Binky, AvE and Clickspring too?
@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797 Not an avid follower of AvE but do enjoy his product tear downs from time to time! Haven't heard of Clickspring I'll need to check them out. Nick and Richard's work though is a main reason behind us even attempting this project! 😄👍
@@FanatikBuilds
Your ToT hand gestures were spot on. 😂
Clickspring is a little left field but I think you’ll enjoy his clock making.
He’s building a replica of the Antikythera mechanism, it was found in a 2000 yr old shipwreck and it’s a very advanced (for its time) analog computer, able to predict eclipses, astronomical positions and several other things.
He’s taken some time out from regular Tubing because he’s got so invested and expert in the mechanics of the device that he’s doing his doctoral thesis on it if I remember correctly. He doesn’t post frequently but what he does is beautiful.
@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797 Very cool! I'll have to give it a watch! Cheers man 👍
Where sway people hang out? #swaybars
Great video but you didn't get the stress and strain definitions correct. Stress is the force per unit area and strain is the deformation of the material.
Now I'm very confused! You are right, I don't know how I got that backwards... yet, even looking at the graph now, I'd still say it the way I did before. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around a reversal of the definitions ... Oh well... whoops! Thanks for the clarification for the benefit of others!
@@FanatikBuilds The Y direction is just how hard we're pulling on the sample, the X is how far it stretches. The stress at which the sample yields is the yield strength, the stress at which it fractures in the ultimate strength. I don't want to get too in the weeds here, but you're showing a graph of "Engineering Stress and Strain," which is different from the "True Stress and Strain." I find true stress/strain curves to be a bit more intuitive. The engineering stress curve makes it look like the force you're applying goes down before fracture, which isn't true.
Anyway I don't mean to detract from the build in any way, it all looks great and I can't wait to see it driving, keep up the good work!
It's the dip in the curve that's throwing me, so I appreciate you explaining it more, thanks! Also appreciate the kind words Jacob, great to have you along for the ride with us! :) 👍
@@FanatikBuilds Well I'm positive I will be boring you and everyone else who has the misfortune of reading this far... but I'll explain the dip and reversal anyway. When you set up a tensile test like this you need to know the cross sectional area of your sample. If your sample has a cross sectional area of say, 2 square inches, and you pull with 10lbs, that's 5lbs/in^2(psi). We define stress as force per area. As I'm sure you can imagine, if you doubled the size of your sample you'd have to double the force to get it to stretch the same amount. As soon as you move beyond elastic deformation, and start to permanently deform your sample, the cross sectional area begins to shrink a bit. As I'm sure everyone knows, when you stretch something, it thins out in the middle. The problem is, it's really hard to constantly measure your new, ever-so-slightly smaller cross sectional area as it stretches, so most people simply don't. They just divide by the original cross sectional area, which doesn't exist anymore. The result is a graph that looks like the force dips down and eventually goes backwards before breaking. If you took the time to constantly measure the actual, constantly changing cross sectional area as you performed your test, your graph would just keep climbing until fracture, which makes a lot more intuitive sense, since we have to keep pulling harder and harder to make something break. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
@@Ivan_builds You just explained that way better than anything I could find online! Thank you Jacob!
My dad always said, "It's okay to talk to yourself, and it's even okay to answer yourself... but if you ever find yourself saying 'What?'... you have a problem!"
Same! I've heard it as, "It's when you start losing arguments with yourself that you have a problem!" 😄 Cheers man!
Surely you jest
Oh no! Anyway..
Glad someone finally got the reference!! 😄👍
TMI
Awe, say not so! All part of the fun! 🤷🏼♂️