Victron Energy Tech Talk Episode 11 Dynamic ESS explained
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- In this short video, Johannes from Victron Energy answers a couple of questions that we collected from different platforms (Victron Community, email, social media, etc).
▬▬▬ 🎥 Video Chapters ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
00:00 Introduction
00:12 Q1 Is it possible to connect only the Cerbo GX to the VE.Bus BMS V2 withouth a MultiPlus?
00:47 Q2 The output of generators is often not stable and/or doesn't have a nice sinewave. If I connect a generator on a MultiPlus or Quattro, will the output (230V) be 'cleaner', more stable? As if the source is from a battery bank? Or is the current from the generator directly pushed through?
01:23 Q3 Hello Victron, I'm from Germany and we have a very high energy price. One way to reduce costs is to use an exchange electricity tariff. When will Victron have software ready for series production?
02:50 Q4 Hi, please can you tell me how do you calculate the run time of a LiFePO3 48V 15kWh battery running a 1kW resistance load at 230V AC through an inverter? Thanks. How long would it run for?
03:44 Q5 Referring to the 'mains detector'-feature on 1st generation MultiPlus. Will that also work with two MultiPlus units in parallel operation? (Master/Slave mode).
▬▬▬ Website Links ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
www.victronenergy.com
▬▬▬ Getting Help ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
For technical questions, see our support page: www.victronenergy.com/support or contact your Victron dealer, distributor or installer.
You can also look at our Victron Community page to see if your question has been answered. Or join in the conversation to help others: community.victronenergy.com
#victron #victronenergy - Věda a technologie
Dear Victron, please build a scalable BMS solution that we can adapt to arbitrary cells and packs!
Great idea!
Well , this is asked before , the answer was/ is that having a generic bms comes with responsibilities (and serious risk )
So we have decided to only have the best bms in the world working with the best batteries 😊, I think overall this would be for most the best solution even though the investment may be higher initially, you have reliable, safe and easy to monitor batteries in returns
Good to see you back Johannes, hi from downunder 🤙🇦🇺
Thank you for this support!!! 😎👍
Welcome!
Dynamic ESS, Yay!
I’m very excited about this 🎉
Verry informativ ,thank you ❤
Thank you!
Have victron considered being able to run dual touch displays on a cerbo. I have multiple install where this would be preferred as wifi remote console requires a lot more money to set up properly as a second screen
yes we do, and this might also come. In the mean time we did change the GUI so with that the "remote console" function is no working for multiple screens at the same time, so an extra tablet/screen would also be an option perhaps
Thank you for the video, btw, I have a question: There is any plan to have a MPPT with voltage with 500V -550V DC / 15A soon ? I prefer to go higher in DC Voltage and lower in Amp but I see products in Victron with always having a low DC voltage which may not great for all use cases.
we have the 450-100 and 200A , there will be (due to the high cost of high voltage components ) no small units in that range I am afraid. Having that much Voc voltage with so little power also doesnt make much sense
No I am afraid not, we do have a 450Vdc MPPT RS charge controller but not small ones. The main reason is that you need quite some panels to get up to that Voc voltage, so having a
RE: Question 3 in the video...
Your response was that one Mains Detector is required per Multiplus, in a multiple unit installation.
BUT... the manual, in regards to installation says...
The purpose of the mains detector is to restart the inverter/charger when the AC supply becomes available in case the BMS has shut down the inverter/charger due to low cell voltage (so that it can recharge the battery).
*In systems consisting of several units configured for parallel, three-phase, or split-phase operation, the mains detector should be wired in the master or leader unit only.*
In the case of a MultiPlus, only use one AC wire pair, and in the case of a Quattro, use both wire pairs.
Could you please clarify the correct answer?
Thank you.
Yes, I menat to say its for each system which has a Multi in it, the Master is indeed the one connected to the BMS. Its NOT used for the Multi II models
Hi. Love these tech talks! I have a question about the vehicle chargers. I have a 24v 3kva MP2 2x120 with 24v Lifepo4 battery system. I want to use a dc-dc charger to charge from the alternator. Would I get a 12v dc-dc charger and connect the output of that to a 12v-24vdc charger (put both in series) to get the 24v I need for my lithium batteries?
why not go without the 12-12 and go straight to the 12/24? that would be the best I feel
I would suggest using only the 12/24Vdc unit and have that one controlled by the BMS
Is there an exact ESS equivalent to the old VS Ignore AC option in the Multiplus? The alternatives I've tried still use main power and try to export small amounts back through the grid. My setup is strictly a no export system and I would like to use one of the ESS options combined with one to control the AUX relay. Thank you 😊
If you have Ess active , and export disabled you should have what you want basically
Hi
I am planning to upgrade 2 of our EV charge points to the new plain Victron units.
Will the VRM system cope with more than 1 unit specifically capturing excess production.
Thank you for the tech tips, they are very informative.
Yes , it will control the two if needed
Hi, can you post up simple example ESS wiring diagrams? Specifically for an MP installation with batteries into a house for load shifting? The MP Manual is great but it's a bit difficult for new people to follow. Thanks.
On the Ess manual more schematics are found , did they help. ?
Hi Johannes! I just bought an Orion-Tr Smart 12/12-Volt 30 Isolated. It says units can be used in parallel. How is this wired? Inputs, Outputs, or both?
All wiring simply symatrical and match the settings
i hear that Victron is bringing out higher voltage gear above the 48vdc true or false? if so knowing the limit of multiple quattro's is 180KWp inverting power, i assume we are talk 120Vdc and maybe a new max inverting limit of 480-500kw maybe?
Yes , this will be released shortly
It’s a (line off ) inverter / chargers able to work up to 800vdc , so for the larger systems indeed
(First model is the 15kva 3p 230/400vac unit , 19” rackmount )
I am in Belgium, and I have 3-phase system without neutral. This is called a "delta" configuration, as opposed to the "Y" configuration. In "delta" I have 220VAC between each of the three phases, while in "Y" config, there is 220VAC between each of the phase and the neutral. As I understand it, the multiPlus does not support "delta" configurations. Is there any way of providing me a battery system with ESS in my house that has "delta" three phases?
Correct
The options are to use two units (on 120 deg shift ) and the meter to calculate the sum of all phases
Hi Victron team,
when did you fix the CCL problem in combination with dc-feedin. On the technical and safety side I think it's a no go to ignore the current limit of the BMS for the MPPT power.
It's possible with a node red workaround to set the ESS setpoint accordingly.
Thx
Not sure what you mean I am
Afraid , the MPPT is not controlled on current you say ?
@@johannesboonstra6917 When the DC feed-in is active in a ESS system, the Current limit of the BMS is ignored and all given pv power is pushed into the Battery, until the cvl (charging voltage limit) of the BMS is reached.
With a big battery the problem is not so big, as with a small one and a big mppt.
But with two MPPT450/100 there is the change to deliver 200A into the battery, and the BMS is looking for 0A, because one cell is drifting.
Not so ideal, i think
@@rcweinstadt5210 As far as I know this is not the case or at least already solved.
Hello, my name is George and I live in the middle east. As you can understand the temperatures are very high. I have a standalone 24volt system and about 9000watts of solar power. My problem is that my sund 1000 amber has burned twice. Where I live I have sudden changes of sun and clouds. When it's cloudy and I have a lot of consumption the generator turns on, but when the sun comes back again and the batteries are empty, the generator continues to work resulting in a lot of Amber's.
The "sund 1000" is the Lynx Shunt 1000A ? that would be easily capable of handling 9kW on 24Vdc, Are there huge loads in the system expected ? Looking at the Lynx, make sure the installation is done carefully, so with the right torque/ clean surface and correct cabling to the PV charge controllers.
Thank you very much for your prompt reply. Yes it is the lynx shunt 1000. My loads are about 45 to 50KW per day. I have brought it to 3 different technicians and they have all told me everything is fine but they can't figure out why it is burning. I could send you some pictures so you can see how I made it, maybe with an email... I don't know what else to do! that's why I turned to you!!! (Footnote) I would like some comment on the safety of the lynx shunt that I wrote to you in my previous message. Thank you very much George
Hello,very nice presentation again,I love how You explain:) I would also have a question,not sure if you can answer it tho. So I have 4 Ampleness battery manifactured somewhere in China,bought from a Romanian supplier.Also my system contains a color control GX,an RS 48/6000/80 smart solar inverter,a charge controler,busbars etc...and here comes the main question: These bateries can communicate with the color GX via VE.can connection,but my inverter also can only connect to the VE.can connection,so for now i cannot connect both of them to this little color control gx device.So i would like to know,is there any way to make my bateries talk to the victron system via VE.bus,or on some other method i dont know about? For now its set up,with a user settings,charge and discharge,however,these Seplos BMS-es with the 150 milivolt passiv balancer,cannot keep up at all to balance all the 16 cells of each battery module,when charging on higher amps,and they also do what ever they want,and they discharge in different ways and times,also charging sometimes all around very funky...and when 1 goes in protection from the bms,the amps gets distributed to the other 3,or 2,and than those are chanrge too fast...i hope i didnt bore You,but i buyed these bateries,and now i regreted it,but its too late,i wouldnt want to spent anymore if possible,but trying to get my system under better control...if You can help,i would apretiate it,thanks!
Completely unrelated to the video, but are there any updates regarding a lithium power station? (As a competitor to Bluetti, EcoFlow, Jackery etc)
I know that Victron is currently planning/designing a LPS, but I haven't heard any news about it in 2024. Great video as always!
Hello, No news yet, we are still working on this.
Hi, I think the German guy was referring to something different. In Germany, some providers offer electricity plans based on the actual market price with a small markup fee. During times of low demand, the electricity price can be very cheap, making it possible to charge the batteries from the grid. I've seen people do this, but it requires complex scripts to monitor and react to real-time electricity prices.
Correct , and we made this easy by implementing this in the VRM portal
Nice and free of charge
I already do this kind of thing but with a PLC (industrial programmable logic controller)
Since I have a lot of loads that are turn on dependent on the price of electricity, the ESS will get completely confused about my actual needs, since these loads are not run on a daily or weekly basis but rather on an cheap-price-basis
My question is: Is there a (more elegant) solution to tell the inverter to "do nothing"?
The ESS tries to keep the grid power at the grid set-point either by charging or discharging the battery, but if there is cheap enough electricity from the grid I don't want to waste the content of the battery but rather saving it for the next price peak. I can't turn the inverter off or set either charge current or inverter power to zero since this will not work with either charging with excess AC solar or supplying critical loads during an blackout
In my current setup I am reading the SOC of the battery via modbus, adding one and writing it back to the register "ESS Minimum SoC (unless grid fails)"
Unless the actual SOC is not more that 5% less than the minimum SOC the inverter will do nothing. If the actual SOC is more than 5% less than the minimum SOC it will charge at full power
So I basically have 3 states:
1. min SOC = 100% -> charge at full power (for cheap charging from the grid)
2. min SOC = actual SOC+1 -> do nothing (cheap enough to supply the loads but not that cheap to charge)
3. min SOC = 0 -> ESS supplies the loads like normal
@@Fluxkompressor I think you should have a look at the options NodeRed can offer you. This is already implemented in the Cerbo (select large image)
@@Fluxkompressor For more extended logic control in the (ESS) system I would suggest using the NodeRed options. Then it can be set up just as you like. Just select "large image" at the Venus firmware section and have a try.
Hi, are there any plans to write a "demo" program for victron so one can build a virtual victron system and prove your calculations to a customer before spending a cent on equipment?
No I am afraid not, there where already attempts in the past but as this is too wide/difficult to do well, we basically gave up.
Question, I have 52kw of AC coupled inverters over 3 paralleled 240v 15k quattros. I don't see a product that can measure more than 100 amps per phase for a single phase north american install. The max CT rating is only 100 amps. Is there a solution to measure a full 200 amp service? I have a customer that does not have the ability to see their load calculations during the day. Their AC coupled production covers all the loads. The system works amazing with 180kwh of usable storage with 22kw back up generator. Just need a CT based energy meter than can read 200 amps per phase for the cerbo, any solutions?
it might be ok but need to ask, but since it is only 2 wires that feed data from the current transformer into a multiplus/quatro then might be able to get a similar 1 but in a 200amp+ from else where or maybe use a smart shunt inline also
No I am sorry, we are working on a solution but havent yet.
I am South African in Saudi Arabia. Where can I buy Victron parts and accessories? Can I buy online, direct from factory to be delivered in Madinah? Dankie
The best is to have a look on the website under were to buy and contact the dealer close to you or with the speciality you are after , buying direct is no option I am afraid
Hi from Nothern Norway. I have a multiplus ii 48/10000, a multiplus ii 48/5000 and a multiplus ii 48/3000. Im going to install 48/10000 now. But is i possible to install the 48/5000 also in the system somehow. Or must it be similar. To up the watts. And how to wire this if possible. Im going to backfeed it in the breaker cabinet to power the house during grid power loss.
you can connect it to the Cerbo using the MK3/usb converter, but things like DVCC will not go for that unit then
@@JohannesBoonstra-ol2nz Correct me if im wrong. Then it is possible to use the 10000 va and the 5000 together on the same power connection in to the breaker cabinet. And the cabinet distributes the power around the house. Will they share the load or will the 10000va start the 5000 va when it is up to its max capacity and the consumption is bigger than 10 000 va.
@@458063 Not sure what you mean , but monitoring wise you can read out, using the MK3/usb converter
@@458063 they can be used but not be controlled by DVCC, the one needs a Mk3 converter to be able to monitor that one , but the controls on there is limited
Continued from the first message.
I know and everyone has told me that I should have had 48 volts. Since I can't change the existing system, what can I do so that it doesn't work at such high Amber's? Unless you suggest something better. (Note) when my shund burned out , it was only 570 amber, that is, not that high. I think the fuse it has inside the shunt is not that good compared to the classic big fuses.
Thank you deeply for your time!
George
570Amp is high but not extreme, so with the correct installation this would not be an issue
Any plan to come out with a split phase 120/240 multi?
Yes ;-)
Hi. Off topic: een tijdje geleden keek ik toevallig een video waarin je precies uitlegde hoe, wat en waarom de settings van de MPPT. Ik kan die video nergens meer terug vinden. Help? Vriendelijk dank, vera
deze ? czcams.com/video/uTMVmW7GTus/video.htmlsi=RzRL2_6yzEwoO57I.
Deze ? czcams.com/video/uTMVmW7GTus/video.htmlsi=YvHBItoiIcsjvNtb
Nee, dit was m niet, deze is over hoe panelen werken. Fucking leerzaam, maar niet waarnaar ik op zoek ben. Maar ik heb de instellingen van Nate van explorist.life gebruikt en alles werkt ok, dus ik ben tevreden. 😊 🙋🏼♀️
I have 3 phase network with 3 tesla powerwall 230V ( one on each phase) I need to extend the storage adding 40kw Victron energy lithium battery. Is there any possibility adding one (or 3) VE meeter to make aware Cerbo GX it has in parallel another backup, so he has to keep the line meter at zero and in the main time comprnsate the energy going outside the Tesla powerwall? Can the VE meeter be set to have the “role” of “external storage” ? Thank you
would it be worth just running the 40kwh of lithium on the DC side of the install on a common DC bus side that way all 3 phases can access the same 40kwh lifepo4 battery bank and just using lynx smart bms for the cerbo to see the storage on the DC side
Yes, the plan is to add the 40kwh on DC with 3 multiplus II and linkx bms, but the Cerbo GX will not be aware if the line meeter is zero due zero house load or due tesla powerwall is feeding energy to house to keep the zero input from the network. It would be great if one VE meeter connecter to the Tesla Powerwall (generally to any other non VE storage system) will act as ‘external storage meeter’ to let VE system to understand there is another power source acting on the network and setup how much VE can balance this as well. It should not be so complicated to setup.
Running ess will enable to get the grid to zero , the Victron would follow the other system then
Running ESS in mode 3 with an external ModbusTCP controller I agree that VE system can work in conbination of other stoage systems connected to the same network. On the other side: with mode 1 or 2, I do not see how VE is able to know if a zero grid load is due no house load or due tesla powerwall is feeding energy to the load to get zero power on grid input. This was my key point. think a dedicated VM-3P75CT connected to the non VE storage system, would not be great if was possible to configure it as a meeter to compensate tougher with the meeter of the grid?
I've been using Dynamic ESS for a few months now, but I'm having some problems. ESS plans to discharge the battery as late as possible, before sunrise, which is not a bad strategy, but the consumption forecast is often wrong, and the battery is often 50 percent charged at sunrise. This results in less self-consumption and more energy goes to the network. And the price of energy to buy is twice the energy to sell. I turned off BatteryLife optimization, but the result is the same.
suggestion is look at node red inside the Victron system and get connected up with your electricity wholesalers API to trigger the buying and selling actions based on the costs polling every 2 mins and add a weather monitoring to tell the system how much solar might produce for the day. because you most likely have 2 peak cost times (4am-8am) and (4pm-8pm) and it is most likely calculating sending power back to the grid(make money) and using power at the same time(home use) so recharging at night on cheap power to make money at the 4am-8am time and have enough for your usage during that time as well
@RayJohnson1980 grid battery charging is off. If the ESS used the primary the battery overnight, the low threshold would be reached after midnight. But ESS uses the grid before midnight and then uses the battery, trying to reach the low battery threshold at sunrise. And if the consumption is lower than expected (and it is oft so), the sun will come out and the battery is still half charged.
Did you try the green mode already?
@@johannesboonstra6917 no, it must be new feature. I have switched it on. By the way, this morning is the battery again at 60 percent...
@@johannesboonstra6917 I've tried it for a few days now, but the behavior in the morning is the same. Today my battery is at 36 percent and DESS was using mains power overnight.
I am in Portugal. Could you please recommend a Victron supplier who can help us design a solar and batteries system for our house (new construction). We already have one EV, but we plan to have two. We hope to have a system that could provide 90%-100% during the summer months. We will use the grid to provide the missing energy. Thank you.
Please reach out to the were to buy page on the website, or contact the area manager (based in Spain)
@@johannesboonstra6917 OK, I will do that.
When the 15k gen 2 Quattro is coming?
ASAP 😅, we do our best
@@johannesboonstra6917 thanks, make it right and take your time. :)
We desperatly need a device to keep our 12v lead acid starter battery topup from our 12v 200ah lipo4 leisure battery that is almost all the time full from solar or from orion 12/12 30A charger . Because we have consumers (trackers , cameras....) the starter battery goes LOW in 3 days if not using the car. Suplying power for trackers or others consumers from leisure battery NOT an option !! Could I use an ORION 18 dc/dc in parallel but in the other direction (from leisure to starter)?? how to set them up if yes.?
Thank you
that is possible but you need to be careful to not have them active at the same time. So make a setting (or use a remote port) to activate the starter->leisure only when the engine is actually running
@@JohannesBoonstra-ol2nz Thank you. you're the best! Could I use a smaller Orion even if is not smart? Would an Orion 9ah know how to charge a lead acid battery and stop if battery full? Thanks again
@@liviunagy4386 Yes, when the charge voltage setpoint is at the correct level its fine to do so
@@johannesboonstra6917 Thanks again! I think you should advertise as such. You will sell a lot of them as TRICKLE CHARGERS for the starter battery.
Hello, did you have any news about a Smart Shunt for the positiv wire?
I want to measure the stock Alternator in my truck.
The Alternator have a chassis ground.
And did you have a plan for a better Buckboost?
In the best case with bidirectional charging and a Temperaturesensor for the Generator....
Best regards Robert
The smartshunt and BMV will remain with a shunt in the negative I am afraid ..
The first new 12-12/50A buck boost is out , the 12-24 is being introduced shortly
Hello, thank you. It's a bit of a pity that there is no realy "innovation" .
You have a so great name in the RV business, but the innovation have smaller companies.
I thought i can wait a little bit longer an hoped you introduce a smarter Buckboost.
But the new orion isn't that product.
The Orion XS can't change the current depending on the Alternator temperature.
It can't charge bidirectional.
Please, search for the LBR-60 Booster from the company WCS.
I wish you brought a really nice successor for the buckboost.
What's the hurdle to getting a shunt as a DC Meter for chassis grounded devices?
Best regards Robert
@@johannesboonstra6917 I’ve just moved everything from 12 to 24v base so ime super keen to see the xs12-24 but I heard it might have wider voltage in and out ranges?
@@TRAVISGOLDIE yes, these will be able to have a pretty wide range selectable