What is even the point of these?
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- What was the point of vessels like the Tie Striker, the snow speeder, etc? They just seem useless, especially when compared to something like an X-Wing. We'll discuss that and more, including why Tie Strikers weren't in Andor Episode 6, on today's video!
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Cool lego set. That's what.
Nice model too👍
💰
If only they didn't look lame with the weird off center wings.
@@whydontyouhandledeez you mean the downward angle? That was variable. Down was the attack position iirc.
Facts
It makes sense, Scariff also had its planetary shield, so you would suspect any fighters launched from the planet would primarily be needed inside of that shield.
I was going to say that, lol
@@ryansargent661 me too!
What's this doing on a Star Wars video? So unexpected!
Ain’t no way the whole ass Spanish Inquisition commented 💀
@@joeandseancooking didn't expect that.
I always figured that Tie Strikers were more specialized and rarer fighters only deployed to dedicated areas in need of specialized, in atmosphere protection.
It's actually more generalized and would replace TIEs, TIE interceptors and TIE bombers in planetary atmosphere. It's a multi-role fighter that strafe a tank, bomb the bunker it came from and then chase down any fleeing starships or speeders all in the same sortie.
Exactly. IF you're only wanting in-atmosphere capability, you're getting a fighter that has the firepower and manoeuvrability of the interceptor, and a payload bay to allow it to act as a bomber, for less than the price of a stock TIE fighter.
Perhaps the Striker was intended to be rolled out over time to replace standard TIEs for air defense (which is why Scariff has them first), but Imperial priorities changed after Yavin and they never transferred the funding to adopt it widely. There are plenty of real-world aircraft that worked fine but never really got phased in fully because the thing they were supposed to replace stuck around. (Even in Star Wars, see how the Y-wing survives its intended replacement, the B-wing.)
@@michaelramon2411 A reasonable conclusion. The TIE-Defender was a monstrosity of a starfighter; fast, manoeuvrable, well armed, shielded, has a hyper drive. Give it to elite squadrons and ace pilots and the dogfighting with pirates and rebels suddenly became a lot more cost effective in the long run.
In the new Thrawn books, he is promised funding for his very reliable and useful starfighter programme that could be replicated across the empire, even had the support of Lord Vader. Militarily and logistically it was the superior choice, and it was cut short due to politics and corruption.
The TIE Striker was a limited run, experimental model for an atmospheric fighter, serving key military bases like on Scariff and Jakuu
The TIE striker was such a cool design.
As a child, the Interceptor was my favourite. It was amazing to fly in Rogue Squadron, absolutely lethal, and a very aggressive and effective design overall. The TIE Striker has since replaced it, and I even have a large Lego replica of it.
@@Duchess_Van_Hoof TIE Phantom, from _Rebel Assault II,_ is a sick af design too! Was my favorite for years.
TIE fighters had limited maneuverability in atmospheres. I bet it costs a lot less to make a planetary specific weapon system than one with a hyperdrive and void capability.
The TIE doesn't have a hyperdrive but ya I agree
well in this instance the TIE was considered dirt cheap for a fighter while the Striker was not
Hasn't stop fanfics like tarkins fist from being a total empire wank
TIES had always been fine in atmosphere. Striker is just redundant.
@@90skidcultist In the old X-Wing books they talked about how they couldn't yaw or turn very well due to the aerodynamic effects of the big flat solar panel wings.
Could it be possible after Andor, the Empire realize Tie Fighters aren't as useful on terrain battles, that's why they created a Tie Strikers/Reapers instead?
That would certainly could be retconned, and it makes for great head-cannon.
Aren't reapers supposed to be dropships tho?
Quite a nice break down - combat airspeeders get slept on but they are pretty good in the right hands
I understood that Scarif, being a "secret base of imperial secrets" had a fair amount of fairly state of the art and experimental equipment. I think the TIE Striker was not really widely adopted yet.
Invader zim: why would you build that!
Hologram: because it's cool!
I’m still wondering why the TIE Strikers and Brutes aren’t in the Battlefront and Squadrons games
I thought they were in squadrons but turns out it's the reaper and not the striker
@@TheDandyMann The TIE Reaper is still a nice ship, though
well neither fighter was particularly common post Yavin, the Brute was phased out relatively early on due to Imperial Military politics and the striker was never common in the first place.
The TIE Striker TECHNICALLY is in Battlefront 2015, but not flyable. On the Scarif maps, they have tokens Imperial players can pick up that summon AI-controlled Strikers to attack the Rebel players
BF2015 had strikers but they were controlled by bots
The two big theatrical uses we see of speeders both take place on planets defended by a shield.
Scariff and Hoth have dedicated 'they are inside the shield' defences, and so used specialised craft that could excel in that roll.
While the fighter base in Andor Episode 6 seems to have had space duties as well, there certainly isn't any indication of a constantly raised planetary shield like at Scariff.
The Z-95 also excelled in atmosphere combat being more aerodynamic then other starfighters.
At least the Mark 1, and probably the later models to an extent.
When did it stop to excell in atmosphere combat?
The TIE/sk and TIE/rp are two of the best ship designs to come from the new canon. For that they get by dis-free in my book. I actually really like them.
One big advantage that the striker has over a normal Tie fighter would be really noticeable in a battle that takes place in atmosphere where winds are particularly strong. The large flat wings on a Tie Fighter would make control a lot harder in those kinds of conditions, and my personal headcanon is that when the Empire realized that more fights were going to take place in atmosphere than they previously thought, they wanted a specialized craft to fill that role, even if it never got out of the prototype phase.
Either way, that alone makes the Tie Striker a more than justified variant of the Tie Fighter in my eyes.
This x1000. A std. TIE would absolutely be rubbish in atmosphere, especially in any decent crosswind.
I remember reading in one of the novels that TIE fighters HATE going into atmosphere. Those great big honking solar panels hinder their maneuverability something fierce.
A modded TIE striker would probably be a very good fighter for the Empire. Being able to fly really well in space and in-atmosphere, as well as having space for a shield generator would make it an awesome ship.
Technically speaking, doesn't fly well in space.
It could be a direct counter to the Rebel snowspeeder in ground battles. Dogfights? :D
And now I want one!
A modded TIE interceptor can get the same job done and has more firepower. With its six standard weapons...
@@90skidcultist While being 8 times more expensive
It's funny that you said most speeders would need a transport ship to move it from orbit to atmosphere; cause looking at the Tie Striker in the thumbnail my immediate thought was "That thing looks like it clamps onto another ship on its bottom like a lamprey"
Don't listen to the fake account, just report it.
It’s probable given how backwater the planet is, they’ve only been assigned a squadron or even a just a flight, as we only really see about 4 Tie’s in that hanger. At this point, who is the empire defending things from? Pirates, criminals, etc. the Rebellion was just a pipe dream for a small handful of people pulling off limited attacks. However 5 years later and the Rebellion justifies the deployment of a Death Star. It makes sense that at that point in time facilities have more and specialized defense craft. Scarif is a valuable installation as well, so important that it has a planetary shield, and having dedicated atmospheric fighters make sense in that context. The Star Destroyers and the Shield facility have the base covered with standard Ties in the space superiority role. Aldhani just didn’t rate that sort of infrastructure, didn’t even have any sort of real space fleet coverage beyond the Ties, and as Andor put it, who would be stupid enough to try to go up against what was there as it was. Sure a lot of money was there, but go watch Generation Tech’s breakdown on what this much money pays for, and it’s actually not a huge sum in the context of the greater Empire. Enough they’re pissed when a chunk of it goes missing, but it’s not like it’s a crippling blow to the bottom line. It’s like if a small town bank gets robbed, it won’t severely damage the bank chain, but it’s going to get a response from the authorities.
So yeah, that was a lot of words to say it actually doesn’t make sense for there to be Tie Strykers on Aldhani at all.
For the newest Tie series entry from the Disney era, Tie Striker and Tie Reapers are my favourite ones.
newest? what about the tie silencer? :p
Great video! Surprised you didn't bring up the LAAT-I gunship. It was an atmospheric craft that could operate in space in a limited fashion.
I unironically love "badly" designed ships, fighter or capital. In a galaxy filled with Alphabet-Wings and TIE-Craft, it's refreshing to see an open deck, wooden, Galleon floating about.
(If you know, you know).
It adds flavor to the ship industry, it might not be YOUR flavor but it still serves to add some variety. Besides, if you go down on Mustafar or Felucia, you'll gladly take a Cloud-Car if it still works.
And for all those, who don't know, but would like to: You might want to check out the old "Jedi vs. Sith" comics from 2001.
I get the impression that the Empire saw Aldhani as mostly "tamed", with no significant resistance threat that necessitated the deployment of airspeeder units like the TIE Striker.
So that when all the TIE pilots are staring at the TIE interceptors and feeling bad, they can just look at the TIE Striker and think "Well... things could be worse."
Why would they find being a TIE Interceptor pilot bad?
@@CHRF-55457 Becuase they don't have one! A d so are definitely going to die.
Literally played the devastator level on Friday. Such a great game that never gets old
It can be infuriating to try to Gold however. The failure state is so frequent in almost every mission. Love flying and dogfighting however.
As shown in the X-Wing books, the TIE Fighter suffers in horizontal manoeuvring within atmosphere due to its giant radiators. Hence the TIE Striker, being a variant specialized in atmospheric combat. In fact, depending on the cost issue I think they should be at least as common as TIE Interceptors as they can still serve in a escort/space superiority role if required.
always really like your vids. keep up the great work.
The point is simply that the special effects guys can reuse assets to make ever greater variety of vehicles and droids instead of creating new ideas and props/renders thus making the end product look more diverse. (which can then be licensed as toys later)
In the case of the andor episode, the acceleration and climb rate of the TIE fighter may have trumped the strikers improved handling attributes in atmosphere considering andor’s ship was climbing to leave the planet. It’s also possible Aldhani didn’t have the infrastructure and/or importance to be given strikers by the empire
The conversations from the Imperials gave me the impression this was a crap posting. A backwater stopping point
to look cool like 95% of star wars vehicle designs
"Thank you for calling BetterHelp, how may we help you today?"
- "I like twin-pod cloud cars."
I love you eckhartsladder
Also consider, perhaps the airbase was on low readiness so it’s personnel could watch the eye. Those tie fighters where probably a small group kept on high readiness, so makes sense they use the most versatile craft they have so they can respond to any threat
In the words of the immortal Yogurt, Moichendizing
There's a wide variety of reasons as to why we've seen limited numbers of TIE Strikers. Take WW2 production runs of fighters for examples. The TIE Striker could've had a limited production run in a contest for an atmospheric fighter design but lost out to the versatility of the TIE Fighter as a whole and the limited production run was limited to defending Scariff (similar to how the He-112 lost the competition to the Bf-109 with most of the He-112's used to defend the Heinkel Factory). It could've been pushed through as a design by someone wealthy/influential but then cancelled when they fell out of favor or were overruled for logistical reasons, and the list goes on.
THE CLOUDCAR IS NOT MY FAVORITE! I WILL FAVOR THE STRIKER AND NONE OF YOU CAN STOP ME!!!!!
LOL. Side comment, but CZcams put an ad in at 5:26, immediately after Luke tapped his helmet. The visual effect of Luke switching channels on his own narrator was hilarious.
I always expected that the meta reason the Striker exists when we had previously seen Tie Fighters capable of dog fighting in atmosphere was so Disney could sell models of a Tie variant.
It's interesting to know that they are suppose to actually be based on speeders. With this video, I'll adjust the way I see them. A pity that there wasn't something in the Rogue 1 movie that made it clear that these weren't simply a standard tie fighter variant.
Sorry, but my adopted daughter(s) loves the _Care Bears_ & loves their Cloud Cars . . . 😏…
My theory is that Scariff was basically the first major field test for the TIE Striker, and given that it was a monumental loss for the Empire the project was scrapped entirely.
The reason the garrison in Andor didn't have any is because as said in the video, it was experimental, so it likely didn't exist beyond a concept, and even if functional prototypes did exist why would a random outpost on a backwater planet have access to them?
Does everyone forget that Scarif had both TIE fighters and Stikers? Fighters coming from the shield gate to take out space threats and strikers inside the shield for the inevitable shield breach. This set up seems like a pretty standard one for planetary defense, and would still work without a full planetary shield. All the Fighters would need is a small carrier ship or space station in orbit.
It could be that rebel attacks like the raid on Aldhani prompted the empire to employ the Tie Striker in the first place
Where you mentioned it: why doesn't the empire use cloud-cars more? I mean, they look amazing, they are versatile, I'm sure you could even make a brilliant Starfighter out of it! Maybe with three cabins!
Yes! Vote for the space-car!
Love the Rogue Squadron footage, you brought back so many memories
i always wondered just WHAT the TIE Striker was, so thanks, this video was helpful in more than one way:)
That's why I like the idea of combined arms and different classes of vehicles supporting each other. Air speeder protect the surface installations while your dedicated snubfighters go out and hit the enemy hard without having to worry about home. That's my thoughts on the New Republic V-Wing's relationship to the X-wing.
On the Tie Striker, you can write that off as another consequence of the Tarkin Doctrine, focusing on large scary Star Destroyer instead of combined arms.
I’m loving all the callbacks to rogue squadron 😊 I miss that game so much
Hey hey hey, the cloud car is awesome. It's aerodynamic, it has a gun, and that paint job? Pure combat!
BatMan: "Made ya something, Dick. Now that you're taking on the mantle, I want you to have this. It's the Flying BatDick"
I love all the Rogue Squadron footage in this! When the Y Wing got shot down, I could hear Luke's scream 😫
I assumed it was because the striker was experimental and may not have even existed yet. Plus, the base would want to scramble fighters more suited to space flight to respond to threats in space or in atmosphere in case say, someone hijacked their space-flight capable freighter or brought their own star ship. That way the TIES couldn't be evaded by simply flying out of atmosphere.
Some craft fall into the category of being 'funnies' experimental vehicles that get a combat debut to see how they perform in the real world . Hobart's Funnies is a real world example of this , in WW2 Major General Percy Hobart experimented with various ideas like adding ploughs , flails, bulldozer blades and flamethrowers to tanks to aid with D-Day and many of the successful ideas made it into the designs for modern military engineering vehicles.
Perhaps the striker is an example of this line of thinking , a design that seems good gets given a chance to see how it performs before the empire decides if it wants to make more, or modify the design a bit more.
Hey Eck! A few days ago, generation tech put out a video talking about how they might spend the 80 million credits Andor and the team stole. And I was wondering how you might spend it to try and further the rebel cause. I think it might a fun video idea! Love all of your vids!
I honestly quite liked the design. Made sense as well that you'd want a more specialized fighter for in-atmosphere dogfights.
I would like to think that the tie ships are modular with parts ready to assemble for different specialized roles. one consistent trend seems to go with all tie fighters seems to prevent low ranking pilots from defecting and having a hyperdrive ready ships from fleeing or landing without permission. Where you see a Tie with landing abilities , or a hyperdrive for high ranking people.
As a cloud car enthusiast I can confirm that I need help
The tie striker was used mostly by imperial law enforcement and special forces and not made in many numbers. It was a prototype vehicle, the v-wing was a light star fighter designed for close support simular to the a-wing used mainly by civilian forces and was very cheap bought in numbers.
"Space is a harsh mistress." Nice, I like that.
Can we please acknowledge the "Space is a harsh Mistress " line, so good.
Empire sees striker price: “Hello there!”
The cloud car, while strange in its own way, is not necessarily that bad. The way it is set up you can have a pilot whose sole duty is to maneuver the cloud car in pursuit of an enemy craft and a weapons officer responsible for choosing the appropriate weapon to use and aiming and firing, and both would have that same view from their respective cockpits of the enemy they are after. That would be an advantage over a fighter with just one person doing the jobs of two.
Reminds me a bit of battletech where they did have various ship types made specifically for space, specifically for atmosphere combat, and some that combination of both.
My thought is that most aerial combat would be fought in-atmosphere as in most places in the galaxy I would think that the main threat to security would be terrestrial and not coming from off planet. I get that we are seeing very important moments for the galaxy and high value assets would be used in a lot of them, but I would like to see more regular battles where cheaper craft like this would be the norm.
This gets into a larger issue, like over use of stormtroopers on screen if they are just supposed to be an elite naval unit, not grunts. Different topic.
The ship the rebels stole was a spaceship, so if they did have TIE Strikers, they would not go engaging with a spaceship, thus they used the TIE Fighters
This video is really in interesting. Thanks for the content.
Not gonna lie… you made me rethink my life choices up till now when you said “space is a harsh mistress”….
Love it or hate it, it was really fun in Star Wars Commander
Aerodynamics also come into play in regards to lift. In atmosphere, a standard TIE fighter relies entirely on it's speed to stay airborne.
goofy ahh tie fighter
Fun fact: the most aerodynamic spacecraft in star wars would be the naboo starfighter from episode 1. Its teardrop shapes actually remind me of aerodynamic race cars from the first half of the 20th century.
tbh i like the cloud car, a large part is it's very easy to say clown car. and yes it looks kinda funny.. but i didn't know the striker was classed a speeder, as far as i knew was it just was another tie fighter variant because it could go into space albeit not as good as the normal tie but still able to hold it's own...
Because it was an experimental model and not as widely available as the standard TIE
I just wanna see the U-wing. It’s my favorite ship in Star Wars because of its load capacity, weapons, and design
Post: U-wing.
Bot response: U-win.
This pleases me.
U-wi
In *Han Solo at Stars End* _[F I'm old],_ Han is flying a old Headhunter protecting a outlaw shipyard from a Corporate Authority attack with Ties (they're currently working on the Falcon and it can't escape).
It narrows down to just him and a real hotshot enemy pilot that are in a long close in dogfight, and in the end Han wins by slowly moving the battle further and further into the atmosphere, to the point where the Headhunter has better manoeuvrability and can outturn the Tie.
And while the Headhunter is not a speeder, it's wings give it better performance in atmosphere than many spacefighters.
That's the real advantage, a space capable fighter is unmaneuverable in atmosphere as it (usually) doesn't have airfoil control surfaces.
I DO have a slightly different take, and question, about speeders as 'dropships'
Poetically, two OTHER videos which came up on my feed were about Baumgartner's freefall from the edge of the atmosphere, AND Neil Armstrong's adventure bouncing an X-15 off the atmosphere. (TOWER- "what was Neil's distance from the trees when landing?" RANGE SAFETY Oh, yeah, I estimate Neil was at least 150 feet from the trees." TOWER- "You're measuring HORIZONTALLY, aren't you?" RANGE SAFETY "Yep.")
It occurs to me that in Star Wars canon, you do have stormtroopers with pressurized armor: OK, they're not going on 2 hour spacewalks, BUT they should be able to match US Navy seal team times of being able to hold your breath for 2 minutes, OR match the 'Aliens' franchise which has an orbital dropship with a pressurized compartment.
This SHOULD also incorporate the atmospheric 'skipping stone' technique ala the German WWII 'silver-bird' concepts of simply skipping your way across the top a planetary atmosphere. That MIGHT be an interesting option for an invasion force - drop a bunch of speeders from orbit, have the pilots in pressurized flight suits, and they skip off the planetary atmosphere, radio-quiet / no engines, to arrive and attack your foe from the rear.
Damn, I love that level in Rogue Squadron when you get the homing cluster missiles. If you like the cloud car, seriously, there's something terrifyingly wrong with you.
Regarding the V-Wing and Imperial version we saw in Rogue One, as a former Aerospace Engineer, I gotta ask where the heck are the vertical stabilizer, aka airplane tail?
I thought SW formally had atmospheric fighters that Strikers and these V wings would qualify as since they're propelled with some form of propulsion drive (i.e. pushing out a stream of ions or burning chemical propellent) and are basically airplanes vs. Speeders that are mainly driven by repulsorlifts.
Yeah it makes sense that there would be a distinction between hover vehicles and more airplane type vehicles like Strikers, V-Wings, and even the T-16 Skyhopper. Calling them speeders just seems odd to me.
That level you can play in Rogue Squadron with the V Wing was one of the only levels I couldn't get a Silver or Gold medal in it
Unfortunately I was drinking coffee when I hit that part about the Cloud Car.
It was said by Lucas that Darth Vader's tie was next year's model as would be expected Darth Vader would have. Since the events at the end of Rogue One happened weeks, or even days before A New Hope it's plausible the Striker was a new model not deployed in large numbers. Add to that most battles we see concern space so we don't see so many atmospheric fighters.
Man, I love the dog outro.
One thing left out on your economy of V-Wing: Yes, you can buy five or so of the things for the cost of one X-Wing, but then you need five times as many trained pilots. Now, an argument can be made that the aircraft take less training, but it's still a lot more warm bodies. So it depends at least as much on whether your local group is more limited by cash or personnel, in addition to whether or not they can accept the reduced capabilities inherent in an aircraft.
The Imperials were also not expecting any kind of threat planet side on Aldhani either.
Scarif is also a hub for advanced technology and blueprints. Not a backwater outpost on a less important world. TIE Fighters were mass produced to cover the scope of the entire galaxy so it makes sense.
Video Idea: Colossus(Halo) vs Knight Paladin (Warhammer 40k)
Funny thing I always noticed, in Star Wars. The planets are all so small. No one ever travels 300 km or anything- everything is always bunched together.
Solid logic. Thanks.
Yeah, though a terrestrial facility; it was isolated enough and lacking staff and infrastructure to support such specialized craft.
I think an important detail your missing about aldani is that the imperial base wasn't complete, they have a scene where they talk about an air base being built over the holy sight. That air base would hold the strikers I'd assume.
_”Sir! The Devastators are getting close to the city!”_
Makes sense, also even if they had Tie-Strikers on planet they where responding to a likely off world incursion in Andor, it isvery likely anyone attacking the installation to steal the Credits was going to need to get off world and well into space a Tie Fighter could chase any such ship at least till they made the jump to Hyperspace a Tie Striker would have a lot less ability to do so
I feel like you can put munitions easier on a tie striker.
People loose sight that the speeders uses on Hoth was essentially a utility/tug craft that was militarized by the rebels.
I think the question can be more simply answered by the Empire chose tactical flexibility. For all we know the Imperial forces had speeders available to them. They scrambled with not a lot of information on what was going on, so they chose the craft that would give them the most flexibility to respond to an evolving situation.
There's also the constant issue of the Empire's various service branch rivalries. The TIE/sk was supposedly used by the *Army* as much as the Navy, and getting a fighter that could outfly and outgunned the TIE/Ln, as well as do a passable impression of a TIE/sa in aerial bombing support, on a low cost, which *doesnt* threaten the Navy getting the hump about it because it's not capable in space, probably sounded perfect for the less-favoured Army.
@eckhartsladder - I'm assuming this is phishing: might want to look into it.
6:40 - what about the Combat Cloud Car? Do I need help for liking that airship?
Does the Empire have a merchandising division? That'd help explain all the different TIE fighter designs.
I reckon the bloke next to Tarkin in the conference room, the one who got choked, was a marketing consultant.
Aldhani, being a smaller garrison, probably only had its bare minimum requirements, but Scarif being a key installation, had no expense spared including specialist vehicles for specific missions. From a logistics standpoint the less stuff you have the less things you need to keep them running, just having TIEs means only having to order TIE parts, and staff TIE technicians, and only have TIE hangers. Less strain on a small garrison.
I'd also hazard a guess that there would be a fair bit of back scratching and brown paper bags passing around, such that Sienar could design and sell specialised one-off ships that more or less just grab things out of the TIE parts bin, arrange them in a different way, and sell this new highly specialised "variant" to the Empire with the help of a lot of lobbyists and contractors.
There's another major disadvantage to specialized airspeeders like the T-47 and the V-Wing, and that's maneuverability. Ships that rely entirely on their repulsorlifts to maintain altitude *must* keep those repulsorlifts (usually located on the bottom of the craft) pointed at the ground. That means maneuvers like flips, rolls, and even particularly sharp banks weren't an option. They couldn't go up or down at too sharp an angle either. An X-wing could stand on its tail and rocket upwards at a 90° angle to the ground. A typical airspeeder caps at like 60°, otherwise its repulsors wouldn't be providing enough lift. For something like the TIE Striker that's capable of going to space, these issues may not be as pronounced.
They just wanted to sell a new toy for the movie and they forgot about them in the series.