Is Church a Safe Space? | Why I Don't Go (Episode 5)
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- On this episode, Lisa Fields asks the panelists if they feel church is a safe space to ask questions. Join the conversation on twitter, use #WIDG
Episode 1: • What Made You Leave th...
Episode 2: • Has Your Life Improved...
Episode 3: • Can the Church Answer ...
Episode 4: • Do You Still Consider ...
"Listening is the greatest apologetic tool." -Lisa Fields
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Credits:
Videographer: Lance Asper
Production: RevPro Media
I like how you’ve broken this discussion into short parts it helps me listen and “marinate” on what was said.
Right! Me too
I loved the piece where you all started talking about acknowledging God in all our ways. For the guy struggling with that, acknowledging God is just as simple as acknowledging someone in the same room/conversation as you. If you don’t acknowledge that person, it’s as though they don’t exist or add any value to the conversation being had, but when we acknowledge God, we welcome Him into the areas we may be struggling in mentally and in our life. It’s like saying “Hey God, what are your thoughts on this thing I’m struggling in,” and not only is it welcoming Him, but it’s solidifying in you that you don’t look to you as your own director and Lord, but you acknowledge God as your truth, as your clarity, as your pathway maker, and as everything He said He is in His word. God is very direct in His word to us. It’s sometimes us who complicates it and puts distance with Him in it lol
We should probably verify our concept of god before we do that
Your comment was great!
Yes " ask and you will receive, knock and the door will be opened, draw near to him and he will draw near to you.
I remember in one bible study, we were told that we were being rebellious for asking questions and that we were trying to find a way to sin.
Wow We Love Question in our Bible Class
I used to be like one of these panelists -- confused, hurt and full of questions. My state led me away from God. I believed because my church couldn't answer my questions, then most of what was taught was hogwash. But God reached out to me through a terrible personal tragedy (divorce) and through the pain I began to legitimately seek Him. I started reading the bible daily until I completed it several times. Before I ever read a word I would pray to God that He would enable me through His Spirit to understand what He needed me to understand that day. This is important because the bible is spiritually discerned. The deeper meaning is spiritual and you need the Holy Spirit to unveil those truths. Plus the Word of God is infinite. You can read it 1000 times and understand something new each time. Or understand in a deeper way what was already understood.
Then my discernment improved. I began to see everything in a new light. I was able to better discern the difference between a healthy church and an unhealthy one, a bible-teaching church and an ignorant one, a church that truly represents Jesus and one that doesn't. Eventually without my notice, all those unanswered questions began to be answered and I was able to use that understanding to become a Sunday School teacher and Youth Group leader.
Good thing you never looked at the history. Aint no getting around that
@@DJ-uc8mk What do you mean?
@@TayGee-mh8eo You played it safe. You searched for truth with emotion. You had pain and was unhealthy in your experience. History says christianity works best on folks when in jail or trying to get off drugs or when they have been enslaved and heavily oppressed by their christian oppressors. Healthy people have a different outlooked than folks who are struggling.
But when you look at history, your emotions carry no weight. When you look at nature and truly ask yourself what in nature says it was created by a he or a male. When you look at the history of the bible HONESTLY, it does not matter how you feel or what you think, you will come to the conclusion that there is no original bible therefore we dont know who wrote genesis.
I wish they had someone on the panel who has questions dealing with pure history.. That is where the church is most weak and that is why they are under so much pressure
@@DJ-uc8mk
This is a case of, "when you don't read/know the bible". Crack it open to Exodus, then Deuteronomy to see how Moses was used by God.
Moses wrote it, through inspiration of the Holy spirit. Then handed it to Joshua. God's spirit has been there since the beginning. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning,
Right?
John 1:1
You're right, no one was there before, but if God can use people to heal, or deliver his people (and other things of course), then he can cause people to write.
Exodus 34:27-29
Deuteronomy 31:19-30; 32:1-43
2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
@@DJ-uc8mk
ALSO, Since you believe experience has no weight...
So what was God intending to do when he sent Jesus to live as a human, and experience all the things that he did, then suffer and die for our sins?
He has emotions and they were witnessed by many. He experienced 1. sadness in Lazarus
2. Rejection by his people
3. Happiness
4. Righteous anger, when he was in the temple
Etc...so are his emotions/ feelings/ expressions irrelevant?
I do wish churches would just admit they don't have all the answers. Instead I've dealt with hostility from a Pastor just asking a question where my character was harshly judged. Simply stating we're all learning would have sufficed.
Part 5 is my favorite so far. Each of them had good points, I think people are so focus on the reward and punishment. We seemed to forget that the Bible is also a book of morals and principals.
I love you Lisa. But this broken conversation is difficult because it is too short. This should be reposted as the full conversation to help others "land". I shared this post with family who "Does Not Go" and it fell flat with them because the conversation doesn't go anywhere. Maybe im the only one who feels this way? In that case, carry on.🙏❤🙏
I think after the broken clips are posted they should post the whole conversation. I posted this and it fell flat for folks too because the context was incomplete.
@@LucGPTnki I hated it because it was such a missed opportunity. The person was really ready to engage.
@@MrsRildaReads I can’t speak for Jude 3, but I would encourage you to have that conversation yourself! I don’t think this video is intended to bring people back to church, but it’s for the people who DO go to church to understand why people are leaving. The videos are for understanding, not teaching
Upon closer consideration, it seems Lisa is modeling what these conversations with others could be like. Short, impactful, relationship building "listening" sessions. I love that! I agree that one of our greatest apologetics tools is listening. Who doesn't feel respected and possibly even loved when they're listened to? I guess I'm eager for more teaching and I don't understand why I have to wait a whole week for what is a video of 3 min worth of content. I want to go in!
I do agree... It doesn't lead anywhere. It feels like there should be more than just hearing. I get what she's trying to do. But it would be better. If it was one conversation or uploaded one right after another.
I feel so sorry for the experiences that these folks have been through. We need to have more loving and nurturing churches that actually do and teach the word with accuracy.
Instead of seeking each other seek the scriptures, then your path will be made straight and only then will you be guided to the right things and rite motives
All glory to God 🙏🏽🎚️🕊️
I would love to go to a church where they teach the love of God and desire of God to walk with you, than the scare of Hell, for the altar call. Great conversation. And good question about believing the bible but not knowing it (terms, etc).
I am glad the host has participated more I do wish that there was a long form version.
I love these young people and this conversation. Like she said if we listen, we can correct our behavior.
What the brother said resonated with me. I was afraid to ask questions in the past because I was scared of what they would think. Or I thought I would get an answer that was the norm without much thought into what I was asking. I definitely spent years trying to force things that I didn't agree with work inside my brain. Not anymore! I'm free. I go to Jesus with all of it and am confident that he can handle it.
Thank you for the breakdown of Proverbs 3:5-6
That is so true about joining a church...there is no trouble free life...yes, yes, yes it is a journey of the good and bad...learn to lean on the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit...I will tune up my listening too✝️❣😇🥰😷
This is really the work of the Lord! How may people walk through the church doors feeling this way and they continue the ritual of going to church unfulfilled.
“Lean not on your own understanding…
BUT IN ALL YOUR WAYS ACKNOWLEDGE *HIM* and HE will direct your paths”!
Scripture isn’t saying to refrain from having your own understanding… but don’t put all your weight ontp your own understanding
it because you are a faulty person. Instead you can lean on the most perfect being..,
This series is excellent because it challenges us to Listen 👂 without being so quick to react or respond. Listening is a skill. Sometimes when so quick to respond is the flesh. When reading the Gospels, JESUS asked more questions and listened more than HE answered their questions. HE was focused and cared about the person. JESUS wasn't afraid of questions from those who have genuine questions. Usually some people are. Reliance on The WOG and The Holy Spirit. There's going to be some questions that aren't going to be revealed until we get to Glory. Blessed 💘
it's up to each individual to cultivate, develop and sustain your relationship with God. You must be active and proactive to study the word, understand the word and concepts and principles...and if the "church" is people, then understand that and seek first the kingdom of God...go to God first ask for His guidance on where to go...,there is no perfect people or church. This is an ongoing journey...a process...you have to put the work in also. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. SELAH
I find that all these on the panel just simply need to understand they're issues with the church are not just their concerns but many. But in all of this please understand all of your questions can be answered if you ask the right person with the knowledge of the Word.
I have a question:. In the security flied, an officer has to take refresher courses twice every two years in order to keep their license. Why doesn’t pastors have refreshers on theology? Having a system like that would really help churches keep their members from leaving.
Do not rely on your own understanding
9:42 💯🎯
love these videos but i wish it was all in one lol
Is church a safe space? For me the answer is no. I was nearly raped by an elder in the church. When the pastor found out about it he called me out as a Jezebel spirit. I married a man that was an ex-convict and the church we were going to tried to have us ran off our property. Six weeks after he passed away pastor preached a sermon that it was my fault he died because I didn't love him enough. When I go to a pastor and try to explain why I'm apprehensive about going to church I get Hebrews 10:25 thrown in my face. You know "forget not the assembly of yourselves together." So I'm the sinner because I won't go to a place that has horribly abused me my whole life.
Why didn’t you leave that congregation and found a a congregation that speaks and preach the truth with grace and love ?
@@marcopadilla9804 I have tried. There have been a couple of churches that have been better. You are just another person that has blamed me for all the abuse I have received in churches in the last 45 years. Thank you so much.
@@sandyzalecki1145 I believe you and I am sorry to hear about the horrific abuse you walked through at the hands of people who were supposed to care for you. I know a lady who was abused in church and she was an elder too. I don't know her full story but she also tried. It makes me angry because no matter what she did its like they wouldn't listen...until they made the choice to. Choosing not to listen and feel someone's pain is a choice. I hope you're in a place where you can feel God's love right now.
So sorry girl.
I have been through similar and unfortunately had the blaming comments like the initial response to your comment. Abuse is never your fault. It's about power and unfortunately it's still one of the places where men especially are allowed to abuse power without being checked.
There are good people in the world, I have to hold to that hope! I hope you find your support, in church or otherwise. X
@@jadordiorre2 Thank you. I wish I found support in the church. I find it with some great Christian friends but not in any organised religion.
Every time you read from your bible God has spoken, That’s how you know God has spoken
Gods dont write books.. Men do. No creator of the sun is going to give instruction on how to enslave people. You have to study history
"Lean not on your own understanding," means 'don't follow your heart.' In Hebrew, the word for understanding, 'Leb,' is also the same word for heart. The heart is equivalent to the soul (mind, will, & emotions). So, unless YHWH has written His Word on your heart and your will is in alignment with His will, contrary to what the world says, don't follow it.
Your creator gave you your heart and a man in a book is telling you not to follow what was naturally given to you. Thats cray.. Nature is the authority over anything written by man
@@DJ-uc8mk that is not what that is saying. Everything in nature won’t build you up. Some things will destroy you. For instance, it’s natural to eat, but somethings cause disease without proper moderation. Therefore to do something, just because it’s ‘natural’ is not a good argument. We have to be TAUGHT how to guide the heart.
@@lccanimations I understand what you saying and we are not to just do things because it is natural. I agree. But a man speaking for a god by writing in a book has no authority over what nature has created. No man can speak for a god and tell me not to follow my heart. The creator of my heart never needed man to speak for it like bible god always needs man to speak for him. A pimp would tell a prostitute not to use her mind or her heart or a slave master would tell the enslaved not to use their own judgement or emotions.. But an entity greater than that slave master and that pimp and those authors of the bible created our heart. But this is the kind of foolishness you get when you put strange middlemen between you and your creator
Well it seems to me like Vince was trying to ask a question there towards the end but no one gave him that opportunity ☹️
Maybe Lisa responds to Vince later in the conversation. Maybe an installation coming in the next few weeks. 🥳
No, just depend on the question and type of event. Just don't ask questions.
When you give your life to Jesus Christ you will come against opposition. Jesus said the World hated me before it hated you, they will hate you for my name's sake. Some Churches today are not like the Churches back in the day. I feel Churches back in the day was about the Gospel of Jesus Christ and repenting for your sins. Today's Churches, not Allis about money , money, money. There was a time I had stopped going, but now I am back in the Church, it is small,but teaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that is more important than the size of the Church.
End all be all, we don’t study our bible. Reading devotionals and studying are two different things. Devotional are there to deal with our own surface level emotions, but we have seek the heart (mind) of God in studying. I love Christian podcasts and discussion but it do not equate to spending time with God or studying his word.
Shalom beautiful people of the Most High God and many blessings to you and your beautiful families.
I agree with Shae. Church should be a safe place but there are ministries that do not create environments for that purpose. Many churches exist for the wrong motives and have other agendas in place that do not benefit the building of Jesus Christ's true Church.
Jesus said He would build His Church. And there is a particular "rock" He is building His Church on and everyone is not following that particular blueprint or building the foundations of the churches on the same material.
And believers have the right to ask questions and engage in healthy discussions regarding their faith. When Jesus was 12 years old, He engaged in healthy discussions in that manner. He asked questions as well as answered questions (Luke 2:46-48). No real ministry is exempt from following this form of fellowship. Because healthy conversations that involve asking questions and initiating answers are built to engage in intimate fellowship.
And we should be honest with those who are looking for answers if answers are not available at the moment. No one should be lead on in a deceptive manner.
And the peace of God always follow His messages and teachings. This is one way to know if The LORD is speaking to you through what is being taught. Believers are to always go before The LORD with the messages and teachings they have been exposed to. They have that right. Any leader or minister in a church that tries to oppress others in that area are illegitimate leaders in the Spirit and believers who are under such leaders need to find a church that does not condone that kind of behavior.
Did jesus say that or did that literature come from the mind of someone other than jesus. We got this bible as descendants of slaves... Maybe we should verify the literature before we just believe what the slave masters taught our ancestors. Idk that jesus composed any literature.. I dont know any biblical literature from the time of jesus. I think the author of the gospels wrote some good things but those writings were not from the mind of jesus
Shalom man of valour and many blessings to you and your beautiful family.
The literature or "written works" of The Bible are God inspired man of valour. This is not a "white man's book." This is not a book inspired by those of European descent. I know many people of color have been taught to believe that but it is incorrect information.
In order for a person to understand this book, one must separate himself or herself from any form of behavior that is biased, prejudice, racist, or stereotypical. Because when we try to understand writings that are built and structured around an eternal governmental kingdom from the same mindsets of those who have misrepresented the wisdom and revelatory language that this book carries then there will always be controversy, discord, and confusion centered around the truth of this book's origin.
We have to make sure we do not try to approach this book with the mindset of a racist or a person of hate. When we approach the bible in this fashion then we rob ourselves from knowing the truth of why this book exists and the true role it plays regarding the creation of mankind and regarding the purpose of mankind's existence.
In order to know the mind of Jesus Christ it takes having a real relationship with Him. A person must be born again in order to understand the revelation and history of The Bible.
This book have been mishandled by many and that is why there is so much controversy and confusion behind it. But it does not make it an untrustworthy source of information because there were those who approached the scriptures from a place of ignorance and from an immature posture. So we did not get this book as descendants of slaves. The people of God were receiving the precepts and principles of The LORD way before times of slavery.
The LORD did not wait til He had an entire book in place before communing with His people about the truth of their existence and the true nature of their kingdom design.
We are kingdom people and if we cannot get past the mishandling of scriptures especially those regarding the history about slavery then we will miss the revelation. This book is not about oppression or oppressing a particular group of people for false and immoral power and illegitimate gain. This book is about setting people free from these things and from false images, and from labels, lies, and deceptions that have held many in the human race captive for many generations, including those of white descent. Jesus Christ died on the cross for mankind. He did not allow this book to exist so a particular group of people could be manipulated with it and dehumanized by it, even though people who embraced hate did take it in that direction.
This book is built on the redemption of Jesus Christ and restoring people back into the true origin of their existence.
this show comes off just a little bit “proppy”. I say that because at the end of every segment the host says that they are doing this show others how to listen. It doesn’t come off like there is any genuine interest in why they don’t go to church. It comes off like, “Let me show you how to be Christian.” Thats just my take an opinion. I don’t knock the attempt though. I just wish that if the heart of-the show was to truly listen to them, ten maybe she should engage them more on their opinions and not say things like “I am doing this because we as christians need to practicing listening.” it makes it inauthentic.
🤐
The church dont like you to ask questions. Just like the story of Adam & Eve, the tree of knowledge is bad for you. Dont think just have faith and believe.
The Bible is a Catholic book thank you Jesus
Simple answer: YOU ARE IN THE WRONG CHURCH. There are other churches that have real biblical answers.
Church hunting takes a lot of time; time which you could be studying the Word. I did it many years ago and end up studying the bible as I sat there in church. I finally decided to stay at home, have pen, paper and bible spread out on the dinner table and study. When I went back three years later, I realized most people in church dont know their bibles at all. They used to ask me how did I know these things and I replied " I read my bible." And they would have this zombie stare like something took over their brain and the conversation ended.
How about they start their own congregations! Then, they will not have those problems. Because of course they have no contradictions.