Schizophrenia and the Bicameral Mind
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- In this video we discuss schizophrenia and the theory that schizophrenia evolved as a mechanism which allowed human groups to grow and cooperate more flexibly. Based on the Origins and History of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.
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Correction: at 7:15 this is not a quote by Jaynes but from a schizophrenic patient.
pretty big difference
The narrator precedes this with “as one patient wrote”
I just searched CZcams for this and you just uploaded this video. The medium is the message.
Or the massage
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Excellent discussion of Jayne’s ideas.
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Love your channel, your immersion into the Jayne's Bicameral Mind theory is phenomenal and greatly appreciated.
I have always felt that the historical Jesus was the paragon of The Bicameral Mind. Applying Jayne's theory, one could make the case that the historical *_Jesus of Nazareth_* only represented the *conscious Ego* personality of the Galilean Jew. With *_God the Father,_* a superordinate personality of the *Self* originating from the right hemisphere of the brain, which not only spoke to but commanded the *conscious Ego* of Jesus in the left hemisphere.
The phenomenon of _Jesus _*_The Christ_* could be an individual that was likely an amalgamation of stratospheric intelligence, schizophrenia and (MPD) dissociative identity disorder - *all congruently projected from a rare vestige of The Bicameral Mind.*
But then again, that's just a theory built on another theory...
This is why I love reading Jaynes and Jung. Jung describes Christ as a symbol representing the Self or the union between opposites, where Man and God unite.
@@nexusvoid314 Now there's a rabbit hole to lose yourself in! When you dive into Aion, (which it appears you already have) the Christ/Anti-Christ union of opposites is a mind bender!
Without spoiling the punchline, Jung's ability to make the _Anti-Christ_ psychologically consistent with his map of the human psyche is just incredible. Many "sacred cows" slaughtered to say the least.
This is great. Neumann mentions the supernormal associated with schizophrenia in his book on The Child.
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I think there now seem to be more and more pointing to the fact that thoughts aren’t only confined to the head. I’m thinking Rupert Sheldrake for one.
With that said this is very interesting with regards to how ideas might arise and take hold. Mass hysteria e.g.
The anime Neon Genesis Evangelion has a character(Rei) who seem to have a completely detached consciousness unable to recognize her own feelings (in one scene she is puzzled by herself crying) alexithymia(the inability to recognize one's own emotions) is a symptom of autism and probably schizophrenia as well. For this character it seems like emotions are subconscious. It reminded me of how some schizophrenics are able to tickle themselves because their brains are unable to recognize that the movement of their muscles is of their own volition. But anyway the Bicameral mind made me think of that character and I just felt like saying that.
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So if you go far back into human history, we were all schizophrenic?
That is exactly what Julian Jaynes said.
Yes…but conformity is the first rule of survival at any time… so back in the day, if you weren’t schizophrenic, you were considered crazy… Whereas today, if you are schizophrenic, then you are considered crazy… We have always gone along to get along.
Who knows a few thousand years from now what will be considered normal .🤓
My brother had schizophrenia, I thank you for this piece of information introducing me to Carl Jung, I will read his works.
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In the future what would this “human mentality” exactly look like? Do you have any hypotheses?
Link to tumbnail?
Keep up the good work my friend, youre content is amazing and fascinating but also informative.
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Where's your Patreon account, so we can make requests?
wow, very nice
How is the thumbnail of this video called ?
The bicameral mind makes some seemingly random religious practices make a lot of sense, namely dietary laws. People point out that some of them make sense in terms of preventing spread of disease and food borne illness, but then why say a God commanded it? Because it was their minds learning through trial and error what causes illness, what animals seem more prone to transmitting disease, or even a leader's personal preferences, etc. Some of these dietary laws could have even started as a one off observation from a high ranking religious leader getting sick after ingesting a certain meal or preparation method, and their mind developing an aversion. Or not liking how something tastes or the texture and the God's saying, "Don't eat that." Next time they encounter it. Similar to how we might have a long term or permanent aversion to a food if we vomit it after eating while sick, even if the food itself was entirely unrelated to why we vomited.
Right now, we understand it as us rationalizing why not to do certain things. Back then, it was the Gods telling them such.
As well as the mind confusing correlation with causation. Do X action or Y will happen could have started as someone's mind observing that they did a specific action and then an unlikely event happened. So the Gods later command them to do it to be safe and prosperous and win favor with the Gods.
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This icon
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_Pantocrator_(Sinai)
Proves the point of the video- divine Jesus is on the right, human Jesus is on the left
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I wonder if having no internal monologue is a sign of the language processing having been taken over by the right hemisphere, and if there's a correlation between a lack of internal monologue and schizophrenia
Yes that sounds like a strong possibility
this dope yo
Fascinating stuff.
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Wow...
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I enjoy being controlled by my unconscious self. That way I merge with my schizophrenia
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Is there any chance to become a man with bicameral mind now?)
Yes but it would be hard to function as one. Thanks for watching! If you are interested please check out my latest video which discusses the archetypal concepts present in the mythology of Elden Ring!
I would love for my audio voice to read for me in a book. I can complete books faster
That would sure be convenient. Thanks for watching! If you are interested please check out my latest video which discusses the archetypal concepts present in the mythology of Elden Ring!
You do realize you contradicted yourself... Gosh. First you say the person has no control over his hallucinations, then you say one of the symptoms is for the hallucinations to think ahead of the person's own thoughts. I am schizophrenic, I know the second is true and I also know that the first is false because of it.
I have developed, long before developing schizophrenia, an unnatural amount of control over my own thoughts to the point that I have a voluntary optional inner monologue instead of the common binary either you have it or you don't, initially schizophrenia eroded this ability by making it harder to stop my thoughts(which was by far the worst and most debilitating symptom for me) but by regaining it I gained a significant degree of control over the hallucinations because just like them I can think ahead of my own thoughts(sounds weird but it's not, we do it all the time while reading, especially while speed reading if you know the skill) which started a sort of race between me and my hallucinations on who could think the furthest ahead of the other's "thoughts"(more like intentions), sometimes the hallucinations won and controlled my perceptions, sometimes I won and controlled them by abruptly diverting my "future thoughts"(meaning intent). Either way regardless of whether I won or lost the controlling game, aka regardless of whether the hallucination expressed my thoughts or I diverted them to shape the hallucination, the frequency in which it happened didn't change much the frequency of my "victories", if I could control around 10 hallucinations a day: if they were 10, I'd control 9, if they were 20, I'd still only control 10, if they were 100, maybe 12. Then again my hallucinations were always rather contained compared to other people, the voices couldn't express themselves in silence if not through feelings and mainly presented themselves while I'd listen to songs, able to change a word, maybe two at a time to express a concept and the race was something I initiated when I felt the voice about to alter my perception in order to direct the change, it wasn't an actual confrontation unless I tried to suppress the change, more often I would either direct my thoughts and feelings in order to see how the voice would represent the shift taking into account the rest of the song or by strongly limiting my thoughts to a specific word and meaning to get the hallucination I wanted. In a sense I was teaching my voices what were acceptable hallucinations and what weren't, especially the single word focus would work a lot like teaching to the point that if I directed the voice to a word I could reliably expect to hear that word more often in Hallucinations.
Needless to say, "God" as a word was the most common hallucination coupled with a relatively simple feeling specific to the context, the more psychotic I was the more simple changes would be able to express vast concepts through associating emotions, while the less psychotic I was the more the hallucinations, on top of reducing in frequency and magnitude would also become less articulate and appear as mere remnants of this training process. Nowadays I haven't been psychotic for a year thanks to my latest medications but I still hallucinate over songs, only it feels more and more like an integrated part of me and not an external voice, like I can "tell" my arm to move, or direct my thoughts, I can have controlled hallucinations consistent with my intentions while listening to songs, with magnitude and frequency much lower than during psychotic episodes and a generally lower level of vividness but still, they are there. I don't do it a lot because they tend to "stick around", if I provoke an hallucination chances are I'll hear it again every time I listen to the song for a while, or even with similar word changes in other songs. It's a neat "party trick" to make yourself hear words or hearing the gist of your ideas through a messed up song instead of thinking them but it's not funny hearing a broken song that tries to switch out every word even remotely similar to God with God everytime you listen to music.
Anyways, I know my experience with the illness is atypical but still we have some control over our thoughts and since our hallucinations often think ahead of our thoughts we have some indirect control over the hallucinations, it's just a matter of learning how to take advantage of the connection.
Dont show hindu gods with your twisted theories lord krishna and lord rama were kings who actually existed