IDLE START STOP, Good or Bad? - Tip of the Week
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2020
- #idlestop #idlesystems
Idle stop start systems - what's Bills opinion? Thankfully a viewer reached out to ask and we receive our answer.
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(The segment originally aired on Motoring TV 2021 Episode #5) - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I got my first car with start stop this year. The first time drove through my local town I decided to turn it off because over the 10 mile journey it operated 27 times. There is no way I will be convinced that this is not bad for the engine.
We have to see 4 years later those systems, who will pay?
After a trip 300 kms. you arrive to the city and the engine stops !!!! No sense.
The turbos will suffer lot even in city displacements, belts, starter, alternator, turbo, steering, cranksaft, engine oil quality, and ECU itself MUST be properly engineered and strongly reinforced.
Dont use it on cold weather conditions and never when the engine is still cold.
You will pay a lot of more than the saved fuel.
BimmerN53
Exactly my friend. Have a Hyundai palisade and we always turn it off every time we start the car. Annoying that it isn’t a default off a choice to turn it on instead but that’s how it is
You're right! Everytime the engine starts you gotta hope there's plenty of oil where it needs to be but, there isn't enough oil where it needs. Keep letting it start over and over and destroy hard to get to and expensive parts. Basically, you'll need to rebuild your engine. Manufacturers were put under pressure by the stupid government to add this feature.Good thing you can shut it off.
I agree with Bill that the starter motors are more durable. But I find a it happened to me that ,this system will reduce your battery life.I had to replace my main battery in my 2015 Jeep Cherokee two year’s ago.That battery only lasted 3 years,was not cheap replacement,$500 for the battery itself.when that auto stop/ start is activated,yes you save gas but the rest of the car is still running off your battery,havac,lights,steering,brakes and hundreds of computers in your car it will eat up a lot of your juice from the battery.
I wonder...if they made it more durable...wouldn't it make MORE sense to disable ISS? So you would get even more life out of your starter? Who cares about the MPG.
@@pbnjtamwichfpv only about 60% of the population.
That would be my question as well about being hard on starters with that being said I’m wondering if all manufacturers are beefing up all the components like the one you were mentioning I have a Jeep gladiator I do like stop and start if it’s saving me a Buck and not affecting my vehicle.🤔
the start/stop is fine but the disable button should stay disabled if you depress it. mine always defaults to "on" every time the car turns off. its very annoying.
That’s the most annoying part by far. If I turn it off then it should STAY OFF
Many times My car didn’t start properly but vibrate after I stop at signal when the ISS is on. I have to change my battery after one and half year. So do I need to permanently turn it off…do you guys have the same problem too ?
I had two Vauxhall Insignias (1.9 CDti) with the feature. It also had a delete button. On both cars the stop start system stopped working at around 70,000 miles. I did not do a lot of city driving. I never bothered to get it fixed and the cars never failed an annual MOT inspection. I bought the second car when I retired from work, and the overall economy has hardly been affected, still recording better than 50 mpg overall, and 59 mpg on the motorway. The car has done over 140,000 miles.
Journal bearings in these type of engines often are treated with a coating that eliminates wear during the start step. And the use of a low viscosity oil increases the ability to keep a film of it between the bearings and the crankshaft during starting. However, all of this is so auto manufacturers can inprove their vehicle's mileage, even if only by 1 mpg helping them meet government Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) Standards. I would use my stop-start system if I was provided a warranty of free replacement of the starter and flywheel to 300,000 miles, regardless of the timeframe. Until then. sorry, not using it.
Exactly! Got a new Hyundai palisade and we always press the button to disable it. Hey if it lasts even longer on the starter from not using it better for me lol
I was under the impression that oil damage problems with repeatedly starting and stopping will affect the long term reliably of the engine.
I’d stick to the old saying too. Always turn it off on my Hyundai palisade. My Prius is a different story it’s made for that since it has a hybrid starter but still even then at high mileage that thing can jerk at times pretty violently from all those start and stops
I believe this is why it's usually in cars with synthetic oil which can help reduce startup damage. However I'm not sure if that's enough to prevent any wear over time.
Engine wear! A engine will not run > 200,000 miles as continuously moving oil lubricates much better.
Sadly on a lot of vehicle's the start/stop feature saves maybe 1-3% more fuel. Also, it can have negative side effects on the crankshaft bearings. The more frequently you stop and restart the engine the more things are going to wear out. Just my 02 cents on the subject matter.
My 2019 Escape 2.0L Turbo has the stop/start feature, its stays shut off. My 2020 CR-V with the 1.5L turbo (non-hybrid) also has it, I shut it off every time I get in. I will be buying a unit that disengages it.
Agree with you on those two models that have it I got a Hyundai palisade and even tho we tested it with it on and was smooth and not noticeable the change we still turn it off! I’m not born yesterday idc if it’s Akinson cycle or not I’m not wearing the car out like that
I could maybe understand this future if you live in a city, where constant stopping means constant savings on fuel. However, these beefed up components, as you said, likely cost more as a result of them being beefed up so even if your starter lasts just as long as a car without idle start and stop, when you do you have to eventually replace it if it breaks, it’s going to cost way more, negating the fuel savings overall. Seems like a feature better fit for hybrid vehicles.
The statement of seeing no additional wear is coming from the manufacturer....the same one that gives estimated MPG that nobody ever will see because these tests are done under ideal conditions that inflate the study. Don't care about the improved gears or metallurgy, these are parts that require friction to work and increased usage is increased wear. My issue is with all these "experts" saying there is NO additional wear in the long run. A true test would be to have two of the same daily driver city vehicles with start/stop, one of them disabled and compare starter wear after 150k miles. But for some reason nobody has done a true test like that
On a long enough time line you’re gonna have to replace it anyway. This one may be longer along in that timeline
Hybrid vehicles don’t have stop start technology because there is no need for it. The car will enter EV mode when decelerating and stopped. The engine will already be off.
@@rylans.5365 my hybrid has start stop
S&S a hot engine in trafic jam or in dense city traffic when there's no oil and coolant circulation in it and the engine has typical most stress while starting...very smart nad good luck with long term reliability!
Yeah make sure me and my girl always turn it off I’m not buying that either
I own a 2021 Chrysler Pacifica, which also has the start stop feature. I was indifferent about the feature until the secondary battery died after 2 years. Even though the battery was under warranty, I remember asking the tech assuming it wasn’t under warranty what would the cost of a replacement battery be? His answer around $280! Seems as though the auto industry is stepping over dollars to save pennies.
I love my start/stop in my converted Ford Transit Van 350 Ecoboost. It’s good to know that the starters were beef up to compensate for the start/stop option. Nevertheless, starters aren’t too bad to replace.
They are horribly expensive. This is not a $ 700 part. Plus the battery is more expensive. Think of safety too. You stop quickly. Engine stops. An 18 wheeler coming up fast behind your stopped engine and you. Hope the restart works. Not a good idea especially with your family in the back seat. They should make it so it can be disabled permanently with a switch on the dashboard. Why not?
I think it’s stupid you can beat up the starter but how about the engine it’s self the hardest thing on an engine is start up. Think about how many times you probably stop and go within the city traffic. That’s a lot of times that engine being started again and again and again. Lost of ware and really unless a traffic lights longer then 10 minutes which I haven’t seen a red light go that long you are really not wasting much gas at all. At idle the engine is at its lowest rpms not much fuel needed to run the engine you really are not wasting much at all. I’d rather burn little more gas then have my engine constantly being kick started on and off
Cold start is the hardest thing for an engine, in my opinion.
I am an auto technician, I have replaced so many Honda,Hyundai and Mitsubishi starters at less than 100,000 miles it's not funny. The only thing in common is they all have stop/ start. I have always used factory replacement parts, and have not found any special bearings nor any thing else that has not been on the same starters for the last thirty years. I also have rebuild some of the starters and found the latter statement to be true. Plus with the newer vehicles with electric power steering you can not turn the steering wheel when the motor shuts off. This is not good in some situations. The little bit of gas you save will not cover the cost of a starter replacement that can cost between $900.00 to $1500.00. The auto industry only puts this on cars to satisfy the EPA,because they know the statements I have just made are true. Peace ✌️ ☮️
In the Netherlands, the time at red light is less than 60 seconds. Does not save a thing...doing 4,6 liter /100 km.
8 seconds + saves money already.
I have a 2002 Prius with 160K miles on it. It's probably auto-idle-stopped 250,000+ times, and it still runs great.
Hybrids are designed to do that. The engine is started by the generator portion of the hybrid system, as a matter of fact some hybrids don't even have a conventional starter.
@@gearsofwar3xXx the vast majority of hybrids don't have a traditional starter, the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that have starters are the older Honda hybrids.
Didn't you read all the experts comments? Thats impossible your car is ded!
That’s a whole different discussion man…. I got a Prius 07 over 230,000 miles it’s a hybrid it has big generators capable of handing all of that. Yet it jerks like it wants to jump into the sky sometimes with all that on and off. A regular gasoline engine non hybrid I don’t imagine can be as strong. My Hyundai palisade we always turn it off it’s a beautiful car I want it to last a long time
@@aspecreviews your right those were the ones that could reverse into a regular civic once the battery died. Only good thing about them otherwise the Prius is much stronger
But, since it's common knowledge that most of the engine wear happens at start up since the oil drains from the engine when stopped and the initial friction among the moving parts of the engine is higher at start up until they're coated with oil again, wouldn't the frequent start-stop exacerbate that problem and accelerate engine wear?
Yes but by that time the vehicle should be at the end of its life ...cars are made to be disposable nowadays...they could car less about long term
It takes a lot longer than one or two minutes for the oil to drain out of an engine. Also, the starter doesn’t have to work as hard to restart an engine because there is already compressed air/fuel in some of the cylinders. The computer is programmed to shut off the engine with the cylinders at TDC. All that cylinder requires is spark to get moving again.
You are correct that’s why I hate it everyone’s focused on saving fuel but this technology just destroys engines quicker
It might damage your old junker that you drive, but modern cars are designed for it. Gotta love the experts typing out their expert knowledge in between fry flips at Micky D's.
The amount of gas you save by shutting off at the lights...not worth the bother. It’s a pain in the @ss and if I can disable it I will.
Testing has shown these systems can save 4-10% fuel in city driving. If one drove 20,000 km per yr, 55% in the city, paid $1/L for gas on avg, and got 15L/100 km (typical city economy for a pickup truck, the best selling vehicle in Canada), that person would save $860-2,100 over 13 yrs, the avg lifetime of a vehicle in Canada. Not bad.
@@kristianhermann5971 Yeah, and in the meantime, price of fuel and inflation will eat that "saving" 3 times.
@@ettit6283 huh???
@@mihaelh6783 "huh???" what?
@@ettit6283 I don't get your comment. If the prices of gas rise, you will save more, not less.
I'm sorry, but I'm going with Scotty Kilmer on this: Auto Stop/Start is bad. Let's wait a decade and see how many cars that use Auto Stop/Start are still on the road. The money you "save" at the pumps means you just will pay more to the dealer or mechanic.
Yeah I agree got a Hyundai palisade we turn it off every time
I don't like the Volkswagen system. You can disengage the system but it resets each time the car is turned off and on again. Very annoying.
Same thing with Renault, just bought a Megane and it's the only complaint I have
@@pack2500 also in f30 bmw
I think all of them are that way if the come with stop and go. Basically have to shut it off all the time
Guy from Kia selling cars. Surprising.
I know someone who got a car with that. They had to change the starter motor every 3 months since the starter is working 150% to start the motor in a very short time. I can hear the starter motor working faster and harder than if it wasn't auto start stop.
Oil dilution on 4 cylinder turbo engines is greatly increased by the idle start stop because its flooding the engine with fuel each time. Oil dilution is where excess fuel is mixed into the oil. Unless your driving long trips the fuel isnt burned off out of the oil.
Long periods of engine idling will do this too.
No way that guy was in diapers 34 years ago.
Honestly, I hate it...Let me make my own decision and disable that completely. I still disable it manually all the time.
Of course the manufacturer will tell you everything is fine. Now that beefed up starter will cost you three or four times what it should.
Turn my stop/start off every time I use the car not good for the turbo.
Read between the lines: If Engineers HAS to beef up the starter to accommodate more frequent startup cycle, it is obvious starter IS taking on more wear and tear.
Does the fuel savings justify a MORE expensive (beefier) starter in your car?
I personally don't think so.🤔
I'm the the camp that actually likes this feature but I keep hearing people talk about it in a negative way that it's bad for diesel engines.
Worse thing you can do to an engine is start it up. Low oil pressure adds to more wear and tear.
Cold start.
Hey if you want too Jump Start your Vehicle or Have a Bad battery Good luck with that
Surely you'd use more fuel restarting the engine than idling for 30 seconds..
Thats only in a cold start i think, but i calculated what a idling engine costs, and with current gas prices it costs 80 cents to let the engine idle for one hour, which makes 0,65 cent in 30 seconds. But: I took the values from a not very modern gasoline car, so modern cars are even cheaper during idling
@@Simon_r2600 The amount you save on fuel goes away when you have to replace your battery and starter. Not to mention oil burning engine problems in KIA. Jesus.
Not sure about that. The engine is already warmed up, the oil pressure is high.... so it takes a lot less fuel/air mixture for combustion (re)ignition.
Sounds like a real pain in the iss
Wished they would have made the switch they would have made the switch the opposite way on the chevy truck instead of having to turn it off every time you start the switch will be worn out in know time
Just wait for the price of the starter when you do have to replace it! They havent been tested that long
All I hear is u save on fuel, what other benefits are u getting?
Zero noise, emissions, or vibration at stoplights because the engine isn't running.
I just bought a VW Tiguan with start stop feature. This doesn't seem to be right, man! Calculating more frequent battery replacement + engine starter + engine+transmission supports and cushion.
It really doesn't make sense to save money emissions with this feature.
The story from the manufacturers mouthpieces are all the same, but talk to the mechanics who actually twist the wrench.. they'll tell you these cars are more often in for servicing the parts directly tied into these auto start systems
Steering doesn't turn the engine on in my car; the amount of force I need is light so I guess it's powered by a battery; I have a mercedes
It's not the fuel savings so much, they are minimal. It's more to do with emissions. Get stuck in traffic, and the vehicle in front with its engine running continuously is pumping out NOX, SOX and other toxic exhaust fumes. your air intake is in the engine compartment in front right behind the vehicle in front. Its fumes are pulled into the cabin by the ventilation system. Ever wonder why you get headaches and become sleepy? it's because of the fumes from the car in front. stop/start is the best thing ever for heavy traffic.
Kia Sorento 2021 - The Starter burned out after 13 months because of Idle Stop & Go (out of 15 start attempts /day I will be successful with 7 starts, so the starter is not completely dead) On the first 2 visits - The scanner/diagnostic tool at the dealer wont give an error code even if the starter has even 1/8 of a life. After taking the car to the dealer on the 3rd time the car wont start again at the front door of the dealer and they had to push it in to service, That's when they decided to replace the starter (KIA Diagnostic tool did not give an error code while the started is dead !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ---- Idle Stop & Go will damage the starter & Battery - and please ask KIA Engineering department to confirm with me if they wish.
The best in Start/Stop system is, that you can turn it off (so far).
Yeah it’s a better chance to take having it always off
If it stops and AC still work. does it mean that our AC running without engine on ?
@@rajeshg8760 I have no idea. You would have to ask some mechanic about it.
Well if I'm understanding this correctly... HYBRIDS are made for this start stop system with BEEFY batteries, starters, and electric compressors for the AC/heat.
But if someone is telling me my car was beefed up for 3-400,000 start up cycles instead of 100,000... I'll take the extra 4-8 years on that starter and use them sparingly, rather than run through them in the same time a normal car would huh? Natural law has to dictate that if you start up that motor more, it will wear out more, for literally 3% gas savings. I just can't do it.
Exactly you can’t compare something like a Toyota Prius which is designed to handle all those stop and gos to something like a full gasoline jeep or palisade that has stop and go. I just don’t trust that being as reliable because it won’t have the hybrid specs
@@robmalcolm8042 What about a pure ICE car that you converted by swapping an electric assist motor in place of the alternator?
Its a GIMMICK very few want or asked for. Please take it away or provide a switch to perm turn it off.
I honestly don't like the stop start feature
I decreases the car engine life if you ask me we didn’t have in the 90s
beecccaaausee cars back then were not designed for it. Man the car community seems to know everything about everything. What modern car did you design again?
Lool go ask the kia guy for advice 😂 smh
Iss means (idling stop system) not idle stop start 😂😂😂
"makes sense to me" PFFT
stop pushing epa garbage I live in Alberta and don't need this in - 30 below weather , and its hard on heads with no coolant going around . and the turbo gets no oil while shut down . lol grow a pair .
“Beefed up” KIA?
I realize Hyundai / KIA have recently garnered all kinds of praise from auto journalists, etc., but I’m not buying it.
I suppose time’ll tell…
Off/on, off/on is ALWAYS a bad idea! Thank goodness using the A/C disables the system! In the winter time, we'll just use the manual disable switch.
Heaven forbid if you let the vehicle run out of warranty and have to purchase a replacement "heavy-duty" battery.
BAD IDEA jeans.
Bullshit the fuel savings are almost zero. Engine damage most likely!!
Whatever man. Whatever. It creates more wear and tear. Little gas you may save not worth it. Scotty Kilmer will approve my comment.
I used this junk option but I realized I save cents on gasoline but parts in the futures are expensive and my car has the stupid option but who cares
Great, so don't used it and your starter and ring gear should last the lifetime of the vehicle. What you save on never having to replace the starter or ring gear and battery will never be made up for in the fuel savings over 10 or so years. lol
I disagree everytime that engine turns on it takes more fuel...
You think stop start is good. Think again. You keep it long enough and battery will fail first. Starter. Starter ring. Most wear and tear and damage is done each time it restarts. You will save pennies in fuel. Let's here what you got to say when one of these parts fail. And it will not be pennies to fix.
I hate the system. It should be an option not manditory.
Wait this man looks 50+ yrs old why he in diapers at 18😮
So yes, it is harder on your car, but the car is stronger.
Sounds like I should disable the stupid system.
Engine wear! A engine will not run > 200,000 miles as continuously moving oil lubricates much better.
You're not saving that much gas..
Good Luck with ur Bad battery
No I HATE it :(
It's a stupid and annoying "feature."
I totally agree. Every time I start my VW golf I have to turn this off and, ALSO, on the infotainment screen I have to click OK to remove a stupid notification that appears to tell me to observe the local driving regulations. It's infuriating.
Starter????,The engine! is the thing that will ware out! You don't know what you are talking about. Starter HA!.
I disagree
A stupid system and down the road major vehicle repair after all those stops and starts ….
Bad system
I hate auto start system
That makes two of us!