Sir Roger Scruton/Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: Apprehending the Transcendent
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- čas přidán 28. 04. 2024
- A conversation between Dr. Jordan Peterson and Sir Roger Scruton, moderated by Dr. Stephen Blackwood, introduced by Professor Douglas Hedley, presented by The Cambridge Centre for the Study of Platonism and Ralston College, held on Nov 2, 2018 in Cambridge, England.
God willing (so to speak) I will be staying in Cambridge in October and November talking with the faculty at the Divinity School there about the book of Exodus prior to releasing a new series of videos about that biblical saga.
Relevant Links:
Sir Roger Scruton Books: www.roger-scruton.com/books
Professor Douglas Hedley (who looks every bit the part he is playing): www.divinity.cam.ac.uk/direct...
Dr. Stephen Blackwood and Ralston College: www.ralston.ac/
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I feel I should have been wearing a suit to listen to this.
Im wearing a bowtie. Nothing else 😐
Bouldness Tanki X I feel like I need to be sitting in a plain white room with a desk and an office chair, hands in my lap, sitting up straight, poker face.
Bouldness Tanki X although during the intro I feel like I should be in a cloak with a staff, in lord of the rings.
You are all kinda gay
@@AJ-mo6mw Formal attire... nice.
Strange how grounding, calming it is to listen to reasoned dialogue in an age of rage, censorship and virtue signalling.
yesssssssssssssss
@N nonsense, Peterson was not in any way out of his depth. Scruton would undoubtedly agree with me I'm sure.
It is absolutely heavenly. We need more more more of this!
@Deel Man.. you are absolutely right. I thought I might be alone in coming to these kinds of lectures and debates to calm my mind and enable one to plant our feet firmly on well reasoned and argued ground. These talks are, as the topic of the discussion suggests, transcendent. They give me hope that all is not lost.
Absolutely! In fact your comment has prompted me to delete my YouGov profile. No one needs habitual online bickering in their life.
Im here after Sir Roger's death. May God bless him
Same here!
didn’t anticipate i’d find this conversation! i just discovered RS
@Russian Métropolitan moron
Thank you, ted. Very cool!
Same here. Gone to soon...
Rest in Peace Roger
The world is a little darker having now lost such a luminous mind shining its light on it.
Same!
What a pity he couldn't have been with us a little longer, still ' no man knoweth the hour '...
@Mark Kenny I think that there is a solution. The minds of our generation need to rise up. We have so much to be thankful for in the sacrifices of our predecessors. I've started by doing my part, I am hopeful that more people will also.
@@vladenache6937 thanks, good luck to you and your endeavors and goals.
@@PS3isawesome34 What list of specific books did you have to read at that time, to get your qualification in philosophy and then in political science.
Sir Roger Scruton Died today 12. 1. 2020. He fought a brave battle against cancer, which he regrettably lost. He was 75 years old. Not only one of great and inspirational minds of our time but also a great friend to Czechoslovakia ( My nation and that of my brothers Slovaks )and to freedom, which he helped us to regain. Rest in Peace Sir Roger. You will be missed, You will be remembered kindly and never forgotten. Thank you.
Dr. Scruton had the pleasure and honor of staging his two operas in Czechoslovakia. His love for and understanding of music also gave us his magnificent "The Aesthetics of Music." Roger Scruton was a powerful educator.
Tragic. Although listening to this makes him really still being alive right here and now
@@graemecreegan6749 love it
I didn't even know he was sick
@@graemecreegan6749 You're a scholar and a gentleman. Surely a graduate of the University of Science. I tip my hat to you.
I feel like a pleb
I am 60, not acedemic, and I found Peterson last year and he led me to Scruton..
At this stage in my life they have offered me an insight into being that was there within but I couldn't articulate.
I have lived a very wide varied and travelled existence across the world, yet they have given the templet to lay out and understand the journey. I often cry now that this didn't happen earlier but there's also a great joy that can only come from a feeling of a sort of new lived transcendent experience that had to wait it's turn...Blessed! Is the only word I can use to listen and live their discussion. I sense I knew previously everything they extolled but I had to hear it. Both of them at some level seem to represent one father's voice revelling some ancient knowledge from an obscure symbolic past that needs to be interpreted for today. RIP SirRoger and 💜 to you Dr Peterson, get well soon.
I'm 28 and I am mad I didnt know about this stuff sooner, but younger me wouldnt care.
I'm glad I found JP when I was 18, I needed it really bad. He's the father I never had
What's wonderful is that after all your years, you have found, yet, another source of inspiration and way to love your relationship with life. Isn't that the whole point, to find these gems of transcendence that give us that far away feeling and yet ground us at the same time? I liken it to adolescent love. czcams.com/video/0-vlX8uRLMQ/video.html
Better late than never!
Well said.
“That’s what a culture is, the residue of all those things people have thought worthwhile to preserve”
Sir Roger had a wonderful gift of language that freezes you on the spot. Over and over again.
What a sad loss. RIP.
Agree. His command of the language is superb. RIP Sir Roger.
Hilariously, CZcams linked me to this video afterwards: "Slavoj Zizek - Why white liberals like to humiliate themselves" and the first thing Zizek said is that ALL culture is horrible! :D :D :D
Both these gentlemen are highly civilized and wise. They should not have been persecuted in their careers for speaking the truth as they see it.
There is no "truth as you see it" Truth depends not on your perspective...
@@mattrountree. Turth depends not on your perspective only if you're actually always wrong.
My thoughts are that Jordan and Roger are in the cross hairs of the orchestrators of the current takedown of society. They are what I see as people who perceive tradition and handed down philosophies as the core of our culture and there are people who are trying to upset those accepted norms while bringing in a whole new set. LGBT agenda and Political Correctness (being Self Censorship) for instance.
whoever speaks the truth, learned or from intuition, will be persecuted, that is the constant. we live in a wolrd of deceit and where the masses have believed a lie.
Fair or not, truth speakers are often persecuted, don't you think?
Thank God these men exist.
Thank God men exist.
Well said, Wiso Norge
Wisco Norge Ahmen
Wisco Norge: thanks to these men, God exists.
Wisco Norge Ahem
I want the guy who did the intro to narrate my life.
Haha everything said in that voice comes out being golden
He sounds like Marvin from Hitchhiker’s Guide lol
I want him to critique me masturbating
@@AJ-mo6mw this comment deserves like 10,000 likes.
He probably dreams in latin!
R.I.P Roger Scruton. Um gigante!
Fenômeno! A literatura dele vai sobreviver na eternidade
De fato, um gigante!
Sem dúvida nenhuma.
RIP Sir Roger Scruton, you will be sorely missed.
Surely a monumental model of a well mannered intellectual. I hope he left DNA samples and had donated to a sperm bank.
The world is somewhat porer after his death.
@@user-xj5rd9yt4p omg
As mother in my forties, am fascinated that one can never stop learning and have found a passion for attending classes like this one in the early morning in pjs
Triple like! I’m in the same boat. I’m so grateful for the opportunity to listen to and learn from intellectual conversations like this. Why waste your brain power on the latest Netflix series or so much other garbage in CZcams?
Beautiful 👍
long live the internet eh nanz? may it remain free and uncensored forever!
brilliant
Whoever filmed and edited this lecture did a fine job, I wish more lecture recordings resembled this level of quality.
"How do we coax people back into a life which is based on the recognition of the other rather than the gratification of the self" - Scruton 1h 7m
What a privilege to be able to listen to these great wise men and to have the modern means to propagate this knowledge. What an amazing age we are in. We should be grateful every day.
Note: two versions of this are up on my channel. This is the uncut original. The other version has different intro music, and a slightly truncated intro. The first upload ran into copyright problems, which have been rectified (I hope -- the problem emerged by error).
How dare you get me excited by thinking there was another discussion up already. Damn reruns.
Wait, the uncut version with the un-truncated intro is 1 second shorter? How does that work? Does it have to do with the rectification of the copyright issues the first one had?
NOTE: Jordan Peterson is an elitist egomaniacal self denying ideologue. Worst of all, a liar. He denies the dangers of global warming. The "gender pronoun" he got famous off of, and said its dangerous. No one has been arrested, jailed or fined for that law. He got famous off of a lie. One TRUTH he himself has said: "I monetized SJWers". Yes. He has monetized the ideological tribalism of the united states. He is dangerous to society. He is in it to make a quick coin.
therock343 Hush child, the adults are talking and you would gain much from listening to this discussion.
@@mangeload You do know entire youtube is a free platform.. and he is literally making money off the videos themselves as well?
"The cultures we Inherited are brought forth stripped naked and thrashed" a fantastic quote from Sir Roger Scruton
Fantastic and kinky!
Two brilliant minds we will never see together again.
Just bursted into tears realizing from the comments that Sir Roger passed ten days ago. I hope he had Bach's mass played when he joined with the Transcendent. You will be missed, good Sir.
Peterson and Scruton, two colossal contemporary thinkers, in my estimation, together in the same room.
Why can we not see conversations like this on BBC? What happened to public service broadcasting? Why do we have to suffer dumbed down rubbish? We have 100 times more first class degrees each year now compared to 1970. So why is intellectual output on media now near zero?
I partly agree. But having more 1st class degrees among the general populous isn't really evidence of anything other than how tertiary education has also been dumbed down. I'd also hazard a guess that discoursing of this nature would be a bit too politically unsound for the BBC.
@@sylaq1151I admit I was being facetious on degrees. I don't think the general level of intellect has changed for a few thousand years. We did once have intelligent discussion on BBC however. I think they are now actually trying to control events by withholding facts that do not fit their liberal elite agenda on diversity politics, climate change , politics of resentment etc. I now question nearly everything they report on the news as being seen through anti west / virtue signalling agenda. We should make more formal complaints. See Jordan and Bjorn Lomburg.
Isabel Page BBC to be wound up for the benefit of free speech.
This isn’t woke enough for the BBC
Same here in the USA where the “public media” (NPR, i.e., National Public Radio) is just a mouthpiece of the Democratic Party machine.
Farewell to Sir Roger Scruton. What a loss. Do people in the UK have any idea what a gem they had? Not enough, alas. If he was French, they would have a national day of mourning.
@Gareth Lloyd Just think of the young boys that he allegedly abused. Don't they deserve justice?
Abraham Tsfaye I cant find any information on these allegations?
@kirwi I'm thinking of Roger Scruton. Those poor boys that he buggered won't have justice now that he is dead.
@Gareth Lloyd No more or less than anyone else. Speak for yourself
@@Abraham_Tsfaye Where's the evidence that Scruton abused kids?
Seeing Peterson's excitement to share his theories on the topics with Sir Roger brought a smile to my face. JP spends so much of his time in debates with people that don't have the ability or the will to understand what he is trying to say. Here you can tell immediately that JP feels that he has found someone else on his frequency.
I find him annoying to be honest. I do love Roger Scruton though.
@@kristofp72 why do you find him annoying?
@@Ignasimp the way he expresses himself needlessly complicating his message to make it sound more intelligent. Unlike Roger Scruton who's articulate and clear.
@@kristofp72 Not a former conservative, but I'm getting into Scruton recently and I do appreciate him, however I think Peterson is what an intellectual may look to normal folks... Just not on the same level of Scruton or other great academic minds
I clearly don't apprecciate him deeply, but I recognize his important work on helping people
@@kristofp72 I don't usually have any trouble understanding Peterson but I have to admit in this video I had to pause at some point because I couldn't follow.
This discussion is as beautiful as great art.
Delete the first "as" and I'm with you.
That's actually, technically true. Art let's you look at things you already know in a new way, seeing things you didn't know we're there before.
This is a great observation - literature, philosophy, art music, civilized discourse - all of a kind in being for the elevation and betterment of mankind.
I loved the simple way Jordan explained transcendence as fact. Absolutely brilliant. Roger's reference to _"the transition from samsara to brahman"_ is not the same thing that Jordan was speaking of. How so? The transition from the cycle of birth and death (samsara) means you are no longer in the world and so you can't tell anyone about the experience of the Transcendent Reality. Jordan was speaking of glimpses of transcendence in our daily lives. And it happens sometimes when we hear beautiful music or see beautiful art or a performance in a movie or the movie itself. A window is opened by the artist which allows one to peek at the beauty of the Divine. It is why 50,000 people will pay $30 a ticket and fill a stadium to hear their favourite rock idol. We thirst for that which is transcendent as fish out of water wish to be returned to water, its natural habitat.
The problem I see tho; there is not a framework to further these discussions, at least not in the west. The Vedanta sutras has such a framework. But its adoption in the west hasn't been successful so far save perhaps in the field of Artificial Intelligence.
It is the finest art.
'What's transcendent is more real than the reality you perceive' - JP
Read Huxley's The Doors of Perception, a book Peterson has stated that he's read as well. That sentence you just quoted is pretty much a summation of what Huxley was getting at in that book. Of course, Huxley was on mescaline. *shrugs
It is not an original thought but the way he articulate this by way of high and low resolution is very impressive.
RIP Roger, thank you for for everything.
"What's transcendent is more real than the reality you perceive."
reality which is things real and defines the notion of real is less real than a thing which is not it???? Really
Yes indeed. The very act of conceptualisation itself creates the 'low resolution representation' that Jordan refers to.
We do it automatically and then totally ignore what we've just done.
@@strangetranceoffaith Humans perceive 4 dimensions: length, width, depth (psychical) and time (temporal) whilst string theory, for example, works on 10 dimensions. A being that exists on such a scale would be therefore be classified as transcendent and more real than we are; they exist and perceive more levels of reality than we can comprehend.
Imagine having such a miserable life that you dislike this video.
Josue Guzman Now just think and imagine that people dislike this video because they don't think that the topic was addressed properly and that the ideas being expressed had any value.
@thegenie Unless, of course, you have another look at the comment of @masonmmaspecilist, and realise that an incorrect address of the topics at hand could be expressed through ill-formed, "valueless" ideas. In this reading of the comment, the topic is of primary importance, but is misapprehended in a manner that gives rise to these worthless ideas flung at each other by nitwits. How the written word gives rise to multiplicities of interpretations!
Not that I believe that, of course. It would take a very removed or esoteric perspective to see this intellectual interaction in a negative light.
@thegenie Perhaps it might surprise you if I were to tell you I don't make presumptions about a statement with inherent ambiguity. That seems to me to be more than sufficient evidence for projection on your part.
"Nothing to imply more than the contradiction." Sounds an awful lot like you're searching for a contradiction. I'm sure @masonmmaspecilist wouldn't intentionally contradict himself, don't you think?
@thegenie And your solution is to belittle and degrade while considering yourself 'of the good guys'?
The position works like this - all transcendentalisms (not just the ancient Greek type) are mysticisms, with no grounding in the verifiable universe. Therefore 'the topic was not addressed properly' simply because that issue was not addressed, but avoided. The 'ideas being expressed' were to support those of religious mysticism and, therefore, don't have any value outside of the closed system of 'religious belief' (ie. the whole discussion is set-up of buddy hugging for people of the same prejudices or beliefs).
Now - you may have been able, with a little amount of insight and concern, to deduce this position from the comment. Still, you, perhaps, would not have been to offload your libidinal trash had you done so.
I hope we can still be friends?
@@stueyapstuey4235 Hi. My name's Jake- I'd like to respond to part of your response.
"all transcendentalisms (not just the ancient Greek type) are mysticisms, with no grounding in the verifiable universe."
First of all I congratulate you on your cogent outlining of the opposing position. That is indeed the rational empiricist view of the transcendental as such, and I don't know when I've heard it put so succinctly before. You are clearly gifted.
However, I have two items for you in this response, an observation and a question, in that order.
A) I think you'll find should you examine the corpus of Dr. Peterson's work (and perhaps Sir Scruton's; I'm not as familiar with his) that his claims about the physical, immediate and biologically/physiologically verifiable existence and manifestation of the transcendent as a function of consciousness (itself being some adapted and evolved trait) are actually rather robust. Our eyes developing their outstanding capacity for color distinction, for instance, is largely due to the need to distinguish between different types of vegetable/fruit (edible vs. poisonous) and foods in general- the result of that development for seeing color being that we attribute significance or meaning to objects of one color versus another. The attribution of meaning to objects could therefore be construed as an evolutionary adaptation.
I won't go into his whole body of work of course but I think his overall position on the matter of whether or not transcendentalisms have any grounding in the verifiable universe might be summarized this way: that we imbue things, events and people with meaning cannot be a mistake or accident, in the way that the design of a bat's wing or whale's tail is no accident. Evolutionary forces pressed on our physiology and shaped how our brains perceive and interact with the physical world; consciousness might therefore be characterized as a sort of autonomic compass or schematic that allows us to navigate the world of objects safely (for the most part) by transforming it into a world of meaningful objects. Meaning and the search/invention for/of meaning (by definition a transcendentalism) is a necessary symptom of consciousness and the two cannot be separated. Man's search for or imbuement of meaning in the mundane (or the verifiable universe, however you'd care to characterize it) cannot be stripped from the phenomenon of consciousness, and vice versa.
A') I believe that the issue not addressed here, as you put it, was ignored not out of avoidance or deception (purposeful or otherwise), but because for two such men in such fields the issue is a bit of a nonstarter. You call it "buddy-hugging" but I call it two men beginning the conversation where it begins FOR THEM.
"The 'ideas being expressed' were to support those of religious mysticism and, therefore, don't have any value outside of the closed system of 'religious belief'" I would again encourage you to further examine Peterson's own work on the evolutionary origin and value of religious thought and systems and the work of others he extols; particularly that of Jaak Panksepp the Estonian neuroscientist and psychobiologist and Mircea Eliade the Romanian historian of religion and professor at the University of Chicago.
The works by these men relevant to this issue are listed below. I found them to be transformative of my understanding of the workings of the brain and their relation to large-scale social phenomena like religious belief and experience.
www.amazon.com/Affective-Neuroscience-Foundations-Emotions-Science-ebook/dp/B00590X4HM
www.amazon.com/Emotional-Foundations-Personality-Neurobiological-Evolutionary/dp/0393710572
www.amazon.com/Sacred-Profane-Nature-Religion/dp/015679201X
B) are you truly a rationalist empiricist? You sound as though you believe you are. I mean, you deftly argue for the opposing position, there can be no question of that- but, from your responses, I'm not sure I'm any closer to how you think or what you believe as an individual. I can't quite grasp why you think it's self-evident that these men would be nitwits for desiring to contend with the transcendental or the religious or even the quasi-religious. Can you tell me more about what you think about what they said? And if you would, address this thing you said, "...and realise that an incorrect address of the topics at hand could be expressed through ill-formed, "valueless" ideas."
I contend that the title and topic of this talk was kept purposefully ambiguous so as to free Dr. Peterson and Sir Scruton entirely from any preconceptions regarding the transcendental other than their own: "Apprehending the Transcendental". The second part of my question to you is this: if you believe the transcendental as here described is all a bunch of hooey (which is what it sounds like you think), why would you watch a video titled "Apprehending the Transcendental"? If the transcendental is only relevant inside the "closed system of religious belief" and is therefore not worth discussing critically at length as you appear to claim, why would you waste your time watching (and by virtue of watching, taking part in) such a conversation?
I apologize for that other guy's beastly way of communicating. Thank you for taking the time to read and consider what I've written here. Even if we disagree I think it's pleasant and important to value one another's time and input.
Hoping you find all this mildly less beastly,
Jake Rigdon
JP has been the most dapper man in the west for a year or so. He arrives in Cambridge and meets all these typically-dishevelled, academic dudes. Immediately buys himself a grotty woollen jumper - well played sir, well played.
He's from Alberta originally so I don't think he would be feeling the cold too much
Rest in peace, Sir Roger Scruton.
You are missed and admired.
The internet is amazing! Wow Peterson and Scruton in conversation. Capitalism is truly magical. Thank you!!!
I'm also anxiously awaiting to hear your lectures on Exodus. You rock! Women listen to you too! Lots of them. :)
Hear hear!🙌
Meow meow
nyan nyan
This comnent is mainly directed at the followers of Jordan Peterson.
Would you dear ladies then please weigh in with EXTENDED comments. You comnents are sorely missed. Ordinary men, (presumed normal/neurotypical, with no know mental diseases) REALLY miss your input. We, (the normal ect.. ) do not know where to draw the lines between neo-marxism and their snowflakes on one side (truely abhorrent, but how numerous?) and e.g. MGTOWS and PUAs on the other side (likewise an entity of unknow size and acceptance among women ).
That do YOU, dear ladies, find acceptable from feminists or MGTOWS, etc. Or how do you see YOUR role in spreading sanity, mutual responsability, and MUTUAL respect between the sexes?
Likewise I would love to see female proper scientists go public with data, in this contentious area. And not leave the definitions and assesments of problem-size, to MGTOWS, lesbian artteachers and ukrainian immigrants, (of cause no offence ment! Your contributions are much appretiated, but we need more generality.)
So ladies please pitch in.
Kindest regards
wtf is he talking about^
And why would he think women would care?
kek
Smart and sharp. I throughly enjoyed this. Finding Jordan has opened the door to me finding all these other intellectuals. I feel like I've learnt more in the last year then in the past 10. I am feeling better within myself personally everyday. Personal growth and enlightenment.
That's awesome, glad to hear it. :)
I share some of the sentiments in this comment, and I'm happy for you!
Same for me (“Jordan had opened me up to finding all these other intellectuals”-and there are many, all truly rich experiences
@UCMcQlJQlgBDODllSF1Wi44w john Anderson, Niall Ferguson, his wife Aayan Hirsi Ali, Douglas Murray, Ben Shapiro, Shelby Steele; you will find that the Hoover Institution, Dennis Prager, Joe Rogan (not precisely an intellectual but a great host & an excellent student), and just looking at links off of them, will turn you on to a lot of good people & stuff. Sometimes you’ll want a CZcams rain storm or ocean waves to recover from all this stimulation!
PS One of the best ever is Jordan Peterson with Camille Paglia
Why have I just found about this? Two magnificent intellectual giants talking about the Transcendentals. What a gift!
May God keep you, Sir Roger Scruton. You were a visionary and inspiring thinker. You shall be sorely missed.
Sir Roger Scruton, one of the leading lights in conservative philosophy and Prof JBP??? Wow, yes pls, and it's FREE! I'll listen to this whilst clearing the snow methinks! 😁
@John Doe this made me chuckle.
it's FREE!!! isn't that just so awesome! (well sort of) The message seems to downplay the importance of monetization... but in all honesty: it is still funded by supporters (so we get to benefit, I'm grateful for that).
All are pinned with the poppies of memory of World War I sacrifice.
Jordan's comments on gratitude around 1:21:20 really struck me to the core. I myself used to do line work in the middle of the winter, and although I was still young and strong, I understood how difficult it can be for those less able-bodied than I was- and none of that even compares to the horrors of history. It truly is a miracle that humanity has triumphed in the way it has. God bless us all.
Mostly men that keep the infrastructure running
Indeed, excellent! Brought a tear to my eye... good on you sir.
God bless Sir Roger Scruton. Requiescat In Pace.
Can we all just agree that indeed, "you do need a plumber"? I love Peterson's ability to draw deep intellectual concepts out of the mundane. What a privilege to listen to these great thinkers!
So happy for doctor Peterson for doing this. So many more will be exposed to the brilliance of Roger Scruton and maybe pickup one of his books!
I follow scruton. I watch jp occasionally but actually think JP a bit of a show man with little real depth. JP talks a lot and says little
@@itsallminor6133, fair enough...
-
There might be some truth to that; but bare in mind "sometimes the message is so important, that someone needs to make it entertaining; to get more people interested." Currently he's a popular figure/"the hook" to get as many interested as possible; in actually sitting down and listening to the *TRUTH* that other (perhaps stodgier/boring) intellectuals have to offer the masses.
I love the way Sir Roger Scruton claims, "I have appropriated the idea of the ENGLISH GENTLEMAN and I have tried to make myself be it!!" AMEN
Elke Summer It's Scruton that said that.
@@sylaq1151 oops...I edited that !!
Just returning to saying RIP Roger Scruton...
It's a rare moment when Jordan Peterson looks somehow a highly comptetent student in comparison to Sir. Roger. There was something weighty about the latter. I think it is a combination of aging gracefully, having strong sense of faith, and of course his knowledge---so calm, cool, and collected. Yet there was a moment when JP was at his best. We need more of this kind of discussion. In my humble opinion, I though it must have been nerve wrecking to sit between two gaint but the moderator got to do better than that. All in all, very good discussion. Thanks 😊
Roger Scruton is, in my humble view, a more heavy-weighted person, more arguments and more persuasive, when he wills
@@yohanessaputra9274 He was a giant.
@@bugglebegger143
I wrote this 2 years ago. Some of us thought, JP will be a force to be reckon. And yet he became one of those who advocate for the jab. For some mysterious reason, despite the reactions we witnessed of those who took the jab, very similar to his own reaction to the prescription he was taking, instead of saying NO to the jab now he is advocating for it. We know he has just recovered from that hellish state of mind he was in and which almost killed him. And now to prsecribe to people this jab, which has similar effect, is beyond anything rational.
Thank you for sharing this, Dr. Peterson. A wonderful philosophical discussion on important matters, without SJWs wasting your time arguing about some common sense basics they should have learnt in school.
Amen.
Ya, he is doing great work monetizing the tribalism in United states and making money feeding it. That's for sure.
John Wick I think the point is that we are not! Being taught these things in school?? I know your upset about you dog but try not to get to distracted .😂😂
I like watching Jordon Peterson have a long discussion with other very intelligent people. Rather than some slow tv show host who constantly questions him and tries to corner him into sayings things well constantly interrupting him.
What a delightful talk of beauty, noble causes and real love towards humanity!!
Gratefully thankful to Dr. Petersen and Sir Roger's masterwork.
"When people loose some transcendental Faith, that they automatically fall into this great pit of resentment, to try and find the oppressor in every relationship" ~ Sir Roger Scruton. A great truth, and this fall started with the 30 pieces of silver. Something like the first bite of the "apple"
I love these discussions. It is so edifying to me. I cannot express the depth of gratitude I have for men like you and Sir Roger Scruton. In my humble existence, low and I may be, I hunger for this kind of intellectual discourse. It feeds my imagination and encourages me to rise and be my own hero in my story. Thank you!
¡¡Very well put!!
Rosa Brand That is what university education once was.
Excellent!
@@jimlaguardia8185, we must reclaim it and make it so once more! :D
Thank you Dr. Jordan Peterson for your ability and drive to deconstruct the chaos around us. Your teachings have profoundly changed my views of the world in a positive way and assess the future much better.
Thank you. Me too!
Thank you, next
Roger that
I just found out about Roger's passing, a day after the fact. Can't believe this wasn't broadcast on the news in the UK, when we have lost such a national treasure. RIP Sir Roger.
I thought this was my comment
@@kegjnote What? That's crazy - I thought that this was my comment too :D
May Sir Roger Scruton rest in peace. We lose a great heart and the heavens gain a great soul.
19:50 "Everyone agrees you need a plumber, because....well there's hell to pay otherwise!"
Classic Peterson 😂
@N They aren't exploring depth by having JP there, they are exploring breadth. You could say the opposite about RS being out of his depth when it comes to knowledge of the mind. But depth is not why they are meeting.
@N Depth implies they both have mastery of the same subject matter and the conversation delves in to that subject. I made an assumption that RS specialized in Divinity Studies, but before responding to your comment I double checked my assumption. So I'm wrong, but I was going to say a psychologist understands the mind, a theologist understands things in a very different way. Apparently RS is a philosopher so yeah, a bit deeper.
The devil is a plumber who views you as meat for his dominance hierarchy.
"Roving bands of tyrannical plumbers!"
@Robert_Smith Everyone who won't admit they need a plumber is full of crap.
From watching this, it is extremely hard to imagine and wrap my head around the fact that England is slowly but surely going to hell in a hand basket.
T Dunph going to hell in a hijab
Going to hell in a PC submarine
We’re always going to hell. Just look at history. We always turn it around after a fight.
21st Dec 2020 marks the start of the 'Great roll-back of Woke'. We are into week 4. Look out for the signs.
“Ah, but a man’s reach should exceed his grasp / Or what’s a Heaven for?” (Browning) I suppose each generation is condemned to battle hard and exhaust its energies in a bid to secure for a while the prevalence of sanity over folly. It is good to see such human beings as these thus engaged in the defence of civilisation itself against assault from specious ideologues.
I listened this many times and it is just simply comforting to hear the voice of wisdom. I am still sad that Sir Roger Scruton is no longer with us. The world is still dark for beauty to be seen by many. Now a light on beauty ceased to shine, the world is a little dimmer than before.
JP has many gifts. One that strikes me is his ability ‘to bring down the truth from on high for the mere mortals’ - he is greater mind than I yet I can follow his thought process every-time - he conceives and articulates beautifully. Time after time I have these eureka moments listening to him and how he describes things. Its as if he can look over walls I cant but can then come back down and describe what he sees to me.
I don’t get this with most other highly intelligent thinkers (including i’m afraid Sir Roger) I become disconnected from the essence of what it is he is trying to convey to me. Thats not to say he isn’t incredibly intelligent and wonderful btw.
This is one reason Jordan has exploded onto the modern landscape I feel. After all the controversy-mongers have gone home the open minded and the curious stay behind to listen (en-masse) and a rare thing occurs. You feel like your listening to a man who is mainlining distilled reality and seeing connections you can’t but who is able to bring it all together and take you on a marvellous epistemological journey with him.
I love it. And I love him!
Nik Hierro I agree with you, Jordan is relatively easy to understand and that’s why he have so much people following him now. I think that this is extremely important, but like in this debate Peterson seems to disconnect from the core of the questions.
Here here! We love you JP for bringing sense and meaning out of the darkness!
Nik, that was very well said. True for me, too. Thank goodness for JP making important things so I can understand them. It's had a real effect on me,too. Good stuff!
Here here
What a wonderful distillation of the joys of listening to JP speak. I concur 100%
These gentlemen are looking real class in their suits. JBP has really stepped his game up the past year; he always has an enviable wardrobe.
They certainly look well and the venue architecture certainly perpetuates what one would imagine of the surroundings for these conversations.
and Dr P has a new barber.
he's thinner
He earned it
@@TheActiveAssault From Patreon mostly... which begs for all kinds of work...
I think Cambridge's invitation, then subsequent dis-invitation of Peterson for a fellowship underscored this discussion better than anything either he or Scruton could have done or said.
So much knowledge in one room🙏
Both the dignity and humility of these two great thinkers brought me to tears. Life is so wondrous and fragile! This truth is palpable in their words, and the space between. Thank you for sharing these live exchanges . . . of two men who will be etched in History.
"Man is only a reed, the most feeble thing in nature, but he is a thinking reed.
The entire universe need not arm itself to crush him. A vapour, a drop of water suffices to kill him.
But, if the universe were to crush him, man would still be more noble than that which killed him, because he knows that he dies and the advantage which the universe has over him; the universe knows nothing of this.
All our dignity then, consists in thought.
By it we must elevate ourselves, and not by space and time which we cannot fill.
Let us endeavour then to think well; for this is the principle of morality."
Blaise Pascal, "Pensées"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaise_Pascal
RIP Sir Roger! One of my favourite Conservative thinkers of our time. We are poorer for his passing.
Eternal rest grant unto Roger, oh Lord,
and may perpetual light shine upon him.
May his soul, through the mercy of God,
Rest In Peace.
Amen
This is an awesome conversation. Really love the swagger of these men.
Oh, yes! By all means, swagger! They just really instantiate it, don't they?
I’m always struck by the humility of these guys and the interviewer I might add. They could so easily rub our noses in our ignorance but not a bit of it
I love reading so much. The first time I read a book from start to finish was at age 21. I would cheat all through school. I'm turning 25 in a few days and God do I love reading now. I just wish young men like me would force themselves to read (not listen to audiobook) just so they can grow their reading skills. I would suggest everyone to start with George Orwell. But he's not even my favorite author, although he is a great.
@Y T way to self congratulate. Apparently none of those books were on humility lmao. Plus there are plenty of other valuable experiences one can have that would equate to a rich childhood without having read. One can be improverished of actual reality outside of books.
@Y T lmao
Y T Y T I wasn't offended at all. I felt sorry for YOU to be honest. The need to tell someone they had an impoverished childhood only so you could brag about the number you had read. I also never said I had an impoverished childhood. Nor did I clim that I lacked access to books. The self esteem thing is clearly a projection of how you feel which would also connect to your need to belittle and brag. Finally, despite your great fortune of not having an impoverished/bookless childhood, you still manage to expose yourself as quite the foolish clown by putting words in my mouth as your best attempt at an attack. Sad really. Have a lovely life.
I've always been a literature fan; mostly classic fictional novels, but literature in general is quite amazing. It's a shame you didn't realize such a thing until 25, but it's never too late as proven by the fact that you have now discovered what a joy reading and literature can be.
There are so many things that go in to it on so many levels; countless interpretations, perspectives, and ideas both from the author and the reader, sometimes completely unrelated.
Interpreting words that make up a story is such a personal journey, and it's absolutely beautiful that something such as standardized language can be interpreted in such a personal manner.
@Y T is it? I don't see younger people with issues marathoning video games.
Is it the attention span getting smaller, or less things requiring long spans of attention? I would argue that a part of that "problem" is the fact that things are now designed in that manner. When everything caters to those who don't stay focused on one thing for long, is it really a problem? That could just be us dinosaurs not getting with the times.
Personally I do think it's a problem and I don't believe what I just stated, but I can't say it's an invalid point either.
As long as the select few do have the dedication and focus to develop things that the most spastic of people can use efficiently, it isn't much of a problem. Of course that relies on those select few, which isn't necessarily a great idea either. But I think this is less of a single issue, and a coalescing of many different issues and perspectives all colliding together in a way that is quite different to anything we've really seen before. The question is whether it's sustainable or not. The real problems come if it isn't, because then the floor collapses under us and most of the populous has no means to recover... But again, we are choosing to put ourselves in that position (in general; obviously you and I don't think it's a great spot) and we don't even know if it will collapse.
It's all a matter of perspective, and we won't know if we're fucked or not until it's too late. So strap in; we're in for a hell of a ride. Whether it's to the top at rocket speed or straight to the ground I have no idea... But we are in the midst of fascinating times.
For reference regarding my perspective, I'm 26 years old. However, the internet was a huge part of my life starting from when I was 4, so I may have a more understanding view in that regard.
Rest In Peace... and Thank You.
It's interesting how Peterson is more technical and communicates things simply to a greater audience, but Scruton is more malleable, and at once more inclusive AND precise (that's good philosophical thought). I like that while Peterson insightfully pointed out the value of the "hyper-reality" of excellent fiction/literature, it was Scruton who pointed out that it is not a matter of then deciding that this person is good or bad, but that this is a possible being, a possible way of Being (or something like that?).
We were encouraged to hate Scruton as a right wing bigot, how unenlightened we were, how political lightweightscould sway the vunerable to political conformity in the 1980s
.
Well said.
Because the lightweights are there to serve the interests that run the system from the real place of power, the king makers the mass media owners mega corporations and ideological cliques. If you vote for one thing for 70 years and get the opposite of it, you aren't in power regardless of wether your vote chooses the man or not.
@@advocate1563 66⁶⁴eeŕ⁴4rr⁵4wuxcdd
The eighties and ever since..
The intro is REALLY beautiful. Downright breathtaking.
Took more than 10 seconds, skipped ahead.
I think it's Glen Gould playing The Goldberg Variations.
Bach Toccata and Fugue in D Minor
@@holysecret2 Yes, it's the Fugue as transcribed by Busoni and played by Gerhard Oppitz.
This was a true conversation in which each of them handed the baton around and carried on fluidly, and used each other's comments to inspire their own. Brilliant!
Great dialogue. Love it. May Sir Roger Scruton's soul rest in eternal peace.
Thank you gentlemen for sharing an absolutely lovely conversation with the world.
If only the world will listen.
Looooooool intro guy uses a fork and knife for his snickers bar forsure.
Born2Gamble123 whoever says “fork and knife” instead of “knife and fork” defiantly belongs on a certain register...
He uses a fork and knife to cut his hair
the jerk store called …
Darby you got it mate
Darby Some of us prefer to alphabetize our utensils.
RIP Sir Roger, a truly great man. I could have watched this discussion for hours and never grown tired of hearing such profundity, such, eloquence, such compassion, such intellect.
RIP Sir Roger Scruton, I could listen to him for hours and hours. I've never read him, but I'm excited to read a contemporary philosopher that's so very different in opinions from others. God bless him.
There is so much I could write about this extraordinary conversation between two pre-eminent thinkers of our time that I will instead compliment the moderator, Dr Stephen Blackburn who is passionately engaged by its themes. He contributes through his searching questions which allow the speakers to explore in depth and with freedom the nature and value of the transcendent.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Love Mr. Scruton!! Thank you!
Bach's b-minor Mass is the voice of God.
Isn't it Corazon de nino?
I wish I were on this level, but I understood enough to know learning and teaching ourselves to understand the basics and teach love and understanding to our youth is paramount.
Very few people on earth are on this level, but Love and redemption does seem to be a reoccurring theme in both Sir Roger’s and Jordan Peterson’s lectures.
Absolutely excellent. So wonderful to see these two brilliant men in conversation together. Roger Scruton has a brilliant documentary, originally on BBC and now available on CZcams, called 'Why Beauty Matters'. This was my introduction to the man. I would highly recommend it. Thank you Dr. Peterson for uploading this and for everything you have done and are doing.
@Oliver William Lopresti Thanks for the recommendation Oliver, I will check it out.
I can only imagine how much better this would have been with a brilliant woman or two as well. Can't believe there was none in all of Cambridge.
*Toccata and Fugue in D Minor* Love it!
What version is this though? Sounds a lot softer than anything I've been able to find.
@@trime547 www.pond5.com/stock-music/47635284/bach-toccata-and-fugue-d-minor-piano.html
This is the closest I could find.
Thanks homie I knew it sounded super familiar but i cannot remember the names of piano pieces
Jedward.
@@js7660 It's an organ piece, but doesn't sound bad on piano.
its like watching a young philosopher discussing ideas with a wise old man. RIP Sir Roger Scruton
I'am so thankful to be alive in this era where so much wisdom is available for anyone regardles of the human condition...listening all of this has really helped me guiding my life...thanks Jordan!!!
This is brilliant collab!!! Sir Roger Scruton & Dr. Jordan Peterson. Amazing
Scruton's discussion on link between morality, beauty and why we need them is fantastic. Especially as he makes the case that neither are as subjective as one thinks. Beauty is not in the eye of the beholder.
There will be a day, when all the men in that room will be long gone, but I hope people who are to come won't let this unique moment die. God bless you all.
Beautiful. Such a refreshing conversation between truly thoughtful minds.
Incredible discourse, incredibly enlightening,
Thank you to all who made this possible.
Incredibly grateful to have open access to such high level thinkers in my own home.
GTG now and add more order and beauty to my bedroom :-)
Much love
Namaste
Such a beautiful response, I've been thinking about this particularly today and found that sometimes I have preferred to stay at home listening to intelectual lectures than going out to party with friends, instead i schedule them for lunch. My life has improved tremendously and my health. I feel incredibly greatful to have internet and be able to visit this content in the commodity of my room. Cheers mate.
My deepest gratitude to you Dr. Peterson for posting this video. I am sure the copyright was inadvertent and really could have been taken as a tremendous compliment. On another note ; It is sad but at the same time a fascinating challenge that screams to be acknowledged that many of your listeners do not have the vocabulary or the knowledge of the currently used vernacular to understand what many references in this talk actually mean.Your analogy of the Roving Band of Tyrannical Plumbers is exactly why Christ became so famous for speaking to the crowds with parables. I have asked those who listen to you and your talks to pause and look up any word or phrase that they do not understand. This lack of understanding , I believe, is why so many have a knee jerk negative reaction to you and what is perceived that you stand for. I work at Palomar College in San Diego. The PC mentality and the Safe Space insistence and the pressure to stop Freedom of Speech under the guise of "being abused through microaggression " is a tsunami wave of pure narcissism that is threatening to drown academia and sweep America into civil war. I am a 60 year old female. I cannot keep my mouth shut. I like you recognize that if it the door opens on my watch that I must speak or do , it is my responsibility and I am to be held accountable, no matter the cost. Narcissism accuses those of exactly what they themselves do, hence the little ratty dogs that follow after you nipping your heels. Your constant search for the most ideal ethical and moral position takes my breath away. The fact that people can not see this makes me weep knowing that they suffer from a lack of conscience that is making the world a dark place. How do we teach conscientiousness? You can find my test result on you website Understandmyself password horses2324 and I test extremely high in conscientiousness. I think it can be learned but there has to be the choice to want to learn. I believe that the greatest gift God gave us is The Choice. Everyday we have choices to make that will make us better people , more useful, more compassionate vs exploitative and furthering psychopathology. In my older age I have learned thevery expensive lesson that being too tolerant also is very destructive and the Female tendency to "nurture" and become the Oedipal mother is just as crippling if not worse than the "patriarchal ideology" that is currently being blamed for all societal ills. The Mother never blames The Child so therefore the Father is the closest and the most handy to carry The Blame. Unfortunate men do take on Blame and Responsibility that is NOT THEIRS. This taking on Blame indicates to our youth that therefore The Father must be the one deserving of the Blame and therefore HE IS Guilty by the mere taking up of the burden. I grew up in a family that has been in North America since 1525. I am a direct descendant of the first justice John Jay. I have had stories handed down to me from people who were present during historical happenings. The ethos of picking up the load that is there on your watch never indicated blame , it meant you were conscientious, and responsible. Others recognized that and when onlookers saw you falter, others steeped in to take the burden from you. You did your part and others did theirs. Gratitude and carrying as much as you can is our purpose. This inspires others. Life is not fair and the reward may be nothing more than a nod from a fellow person of humility and compassion and respect.
I went to a local 7/11 and a man who was perhaps in his 30s sat on the sidewalk obviously waiting for a ride, leaning against the back wall of the building. He was dirty, but from WORK. He had his baseball cap on backwards, work-boots, leather gloves in his pocket and drinking a beer. He was fit but tired. I looked directly at him , he gave me the very male tip up of the chin in acknowledgement as I stepped out of my car directly facing him and I also responded in like. I am a very well turned out 60 year old woman, dressed in nice office cloths driving a new $30,000. SUV. The man gave me a look of astonishment as I passed by in my heels. When I returned to my car he was standing and he stepped respectfully towards me. He apologized for intruding and of being stinky, I laughed and said that his smell was the grand smell of a MAN who knew how to work hard and to never apologize for the smell of Responsibility. He was so grateful and told me that he wanted to thank me for the simple act of tipping my chin, looking him in the eyes and NOT BEING FEARFUL of him because he was a man.; and that my lack of fear had told him that he was a valuable human! I said , "Of course you are and never forget it!" We shook hands and I encouraged him to listen to Dr. Peterson on CZcams. I cried all the way home, very grateful that I had had a chance to give someone hope. let us all remember what theses good men are speaking about. This is an attitude in life that can only happen if you walk the talk, take on whatever burden comes your way and remember others are always watching and this is the inheritance we pass on to others; responsibility, competence, patience, open honest communication and truth.
Beautifully written. I thoroughly enjoyed it and agreed with every word.
@Carrie Silvina Espinoza Willanueva Thank you for sharing so fully. I often find the comments in JP's videos deepening my connection to his work.
As a 60 year old I find it increasingly easy to find a point of connection as you described, with nearly anyone, and on reflection it's almost stunning how ready and available these connection points are, where we find ourselves spontaneously supporting each other in our humanity.
Sometime in 1990, I waited on a bus stop with a date, when the bus arrived and an older black woman stepped out, looked at me in surprise and exclaimed - 'Are you a preacher? Will you pray for me? I want to live a little longer!'
I was startled by her assumption, but quickly realized that the short white shirt collar I wore must have been mistaken by her for a priest's collar. An explanation seemed more awkward and disappointing than appropriate and so I simply asked her 'How much longer do you want to live?'
She responded - 'Two years. I want to see my grandson born and be with him for a while.' She looked at me with eager expectation, as I lowered my head in consideration, and after a short pause looked her in the eyes and said with conviction 'I can do two years.' Her face brightened up, she said 'God bless you!' and went on with a brisk stride.
My date and I looked at each other with some amazement at synchronicity of what just occurred, but there was nothing to say. The moment by itself was full and complete.
@@Citizen-gj6lr Thank you for your sweet story. If the finest condition one can derive from being older is that one can more easily understand, connect and find positive ground with other humans then thank God we are older.
Such an underrated conversation of both Peterson and Scruton. Multiple times throughout this video I've experienced 'a portal through the transcendence', as they so beautifully described it. I will definitely come back to this video and rewatch it and no doubt find even more portals that were previously hidden for me.
I guess there are some earthly things I love. Heavy metal 🤘🏼 and these type of conversation and the gym. HOWEVER I LOVE THE CREATOR ABOVE ALL.
Beautiful conversation. Thank you so much for sharing and for what you do.
This is one of the greatest talks I have heard in a while. It's sad that it has only 30k views as of today. Logan Pauls last two videos have 2 mil and 6 mil views. Pewdiepie last two videos have 4 mil and 10 mil. I don't mean to sound smug I just wish more people sought knowledge and this video is literally about seeking knowledge.
Consider that 15% of the population has above than average IQ. 2M * 0.15 =300k
ie: Not everyone is interested or has the brain to understand or know about JP
Google willing, it'll be here when they're ready.
Story as old as time. The masses seek to close their eyes and die comfortably numb
This goes way over the head of 80% of the people on the planet.
You do see the light most clearly when it’s imposed against the darkest possible background
This is such a beautifully described idea. Incredible conversation
While Jordan Peterson is the animalistic grinding toward the precipice of climax, Sir Roger is the romance, the candlelight dinner, the opera and the wine; the caressing, the embrace and passionate kissing that is just as essential to the love making act ~ these men are delectable the the brain ~ May you rest in the peace of Christ Sir Roger ~ I love you both ~
Yes, I often think about Peterson as being a bit to harsh and insensitive to me. But Scruton is really a very sensitive and moral man.
The music is fitting
Yes, but i found the intro as a whole to be somewhat pretentious. But the music was nice.
Two months at the Cambridge - Divinity School to prepp for the future lectures...
Second season of the Biblical Saga will be great!
This was a beautiful conversation between two great thinkers. It is sad to think that Sir Roger Scruton passed away from cancer just over a year after this was filmed, he looks in perfect health here. They are so right about the lack of gratitude in the post-modernist viewpoint, it's all about destroying things but offers no ideas about what to replace them with. We must all do whatever we can to defeat this evil, nihilistic ideology that appears to have captured academia and other institutions. An excellent discussion for this Sunday afternoon.
This is one of the most moving things I've ever heard. I just want to be a better person listening to it.