Ep. 22 - Room Treatments Part 2 of 4! The Real Upgrade! Acoustic Panels | Home Theater Gurus
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- čas přidán 4. 12. 2019
- How does absorption acoustic panels work and where and when are they used in a home theater. Home Theater Gurus
Links for Panels below!
✅For room plans contact me @
Elitehomecinema.sales@gmail.com
Sales are strictly for room design clients.
✅Absorption www.gikacoustics.com/product/...
Decorative Art (Absorption) www.gikacoustics.com/product/...
Combo Panels www.gikacoustics.com/product/...
This episodes cool find
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07...
Bob Gold's absorptive compilation
www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCo... - Věda a technologie
Amazing stuff !
Please tell us more about yourself . I find it refreshing that someone with a scientific background shares this knowledge in bite size installments for us to follow .
I wish the audioholics would conduct a live web chat / webinar with you . There will be so much for us to learn.
Keep up the great work ! Waiting for your episodes is like waiting for the next installment of my favourite series to air 😃.
Thanks you so much!
I guess one day soon I should do a "who am I" video :)
Glad I found your channel, learning a lot, thank you sir! Hope to see your new theatre in the next year
So much great stuff here. The coefficient tables, the air gap, not using foam/egg crate material, not just using absorption, all great stuff.
Thanks Nick!
Thank you so much for these videos. Pure gold.
You're very welcome!!!
U r really a HomeTheater Guru Sir👍👌
Another amazing video ... You really help us hobbyist's with the terminology and practical advice. My question is I've just purchased some Rockwool rw5 is it safe to just install in a stud wall and cover over with acoustically transparent fabric. I notice in the video the use of insulation with backing facing the fabric!! Now a little confused ???
Any advice would be awesome ....
One of few with integrity.
For those with a living room setup and have a wife/partner approval factor to consider, check out GIK Acoustics. They make nice looking modern art style panels.
Thanks for this. I'm not the wife but I still like looks :)
Hi! REALLY enjoying the series!! I have a question on sound absorption materials. You mentioned Owens Corning 703 and Rockboard panels. Is it best to go with faced or unfaced? Do you recommend the Owens 703 or the Rockboard 60 series (or 40 series) for overall sound absorption? Also, how do you figure how many 24" x 48" x 2" panels you need for say a 10' or 12" wall with an 8' ceiling? Thanks in advance for the help! :)
Great series really. There are not many good acoustics videos I found that goes into details for the DIY/Enthusiast community like you do. Most are just contact X company and they will do it for you. Keep it up!
Thanks! I like to educate people on the hobby too as there is just so much snake oil and misconceptions in the hobby. It's so easy to have no clue what to do and not to do.
curtains did wonders for my room.
Outstanding channel and content!!! Discovered your content in your segment on eq'ing multiple subs and now working through the rest of your videos. I'm running a single sub but the info in that video was invaluable to me in terms of getting the basics ironed out. Using a 12" sealed Shiva in a .7 alignment, my next step was going to be building a Linkwitz Transform, then I discovered the MiniDSP! Fast-forward, now have a MiniDSP 2x4 HD and a Umik-1 mic, have found a good location for my sub that eliminated a couple of serious nulls and was able to eq to a nice flat response (no house curve, Pioneer receiver with THX Loudness Plus enabled). Initially was playing with house curves because something still wasn't right, then I realized that my receiver was doing the work for me and in my case I needed to eq flat.
Now I'm on to room treatments and your latest series is just what I needed to move in that direction. Today's task is to run sweeps and evaluate waterfall plots to see the worst areas and see what my initial targets will be. Can't say enough about how much I appreciate your real-world focus on fixing these kinds of issues. Subscribed!
You're very welcome! Did you say Shiva as in Adire Shiva? I use a Adire dpl 12 In my living room!
@@hometheatergurus - LOL, yes it is an original from back when Dan Wiggins was the primary (2001).
For me, two key insights from the video are 1) you don't really need absorption below ~250hz as it at the lower frequencies the sound becomes modal, and 2) 2" to 3" panels will likely have sufficient absorption for as low as you need to go given angles which sound will hit the panel. Instead of paying for the more expensive 4"+ thick panels GIK recommended, I can purchase 2" or 3" panels and save money.
Is it possible to do a "simple" test before buying all the rockwool? Could I use all the blankets and pillows just to try have it could sound with some treatment?
Yep, they will absorb well depending on how thick they are.
Hello, i learnt a lot from your videos and i love them all. Just how you explain things is pretty easy to understand. Thank you!
Um, I think foam isn't a good material too, but I'm planning to sound treat my own bedroom into a home theater, because my house is kind of small. I also sleep in there, obviously so.. Breathing good sound proofing materials daily can't be good right? Isn't foam a good solution to my problem? like, isn't foam among the healthiest material I can use? or what could I do for a room like this, since I'm sleeping in it too?
Thank you very much!
As for using materials like compressed fiberglass uncover the health aspect in the video on absorption.
Let's just say I made my bedroom set as I like wood working and my headboard doubles as a large absorption panel. Makes for a very peaceful sounding room for sleeping!
Another good video. But just to clarify, there are two types of foam, and only real acoustic foam is useful for room treatment. Mattress foam is closed cell, and absorbs much less than open cell foam which is useful in a room.
Thanks. I did mention some foam is decent and I also explain how to read specs.
I have a couple 100 pound dogs, things get very dusty and dirty fast. I want to avoid foam and fabric that will become disgusting. What are my treatment options?
Really great content! Thanks for sharing all that info.
In your video you said that when trying to tackle long wavelengths one could treat equivalent of 1/4th of that wave to help out a bit.
I have really bad 43hz mode in my living room, giving me over 1.2sec RT60. Since this is in the living room i cannot put basstraps anywhere so I wanted to install a absorption ceiling using Rockwool / Sonorock.
So now the question is: Since 1/4 of 43hz wavelength would be 2m/6.6foot which corresponds to about 170hz, does it help to use rockwool thickness that absorbs down to 170hz also for my 43hz mode?
Thanks from germany!
hast du das Problem inzwischen lösen können? :)
@@descent8275 ich habe mittlerweile die Lautsprecher gewechselt, der Bassreflex Port befindet sich bei diesen nun vorn und unten und nichtmehr hinten. Das hat in meinem Raum dazu beigetragen, dass die Raummoden nichtmehr so stark angeregt wurden und die Nachhallzeit nun weit unter 1 Sekunde ist. Dazu habe ich noch entsprechend per EQ die 43hz Mode heruntergeregelt
Hello, I just found this video and the information is amazing. I hope you can still answer to my questions. I live in Costa Rica, and down here it’s not too ease to buy acoustic materials at the hardware shops. In my case, I only has found a “fluffy” fiberglass material. It’s the Knauf R-11 Kraft roll (Ecoroll). I couldn’t find any info on the web about the NRC values for this specific material becuase the mail purpose of the material it's not for the acuostics. I suppose I can use as a guide the values of the Owens Corning Fiberglass (fluffy pink) - the 3.5” R11 unfaced.
My questions are:
1. If I don´t understand it wrong, it’s ONLY necessary to “attach” a quarter of the 250Hz frequency to obtain a clean voice. Is it right?
2. This Knauf roll that I found here, has a paper cover on one side, is it better to remove it ?
3. Any suggestions, I am thinking to DIY my acoustic panels with this fiber glass material.
Thank you so much.
Sorry... on questio No. 1 is "attack".. Txs
Any idea on what's a good hz to volume match my 4 subs.. ppl say 60hz.. I went up to 100hz... what's ideal or reference.
easy way to level match your sub to your speakers,
1. Set centre speaker to small and run a full range sweep for that speaker.
2. look at the frequency response and adjust the subwoofer up or down in the avr speaker level until it flows with the frequency response of the speaker.
or
3. use a spl meter and adjust the subwoofer level using the internal test tones on your avr to the same level (or a few db higher) than your centre speaker
Sounds like you want to get all of your subs output matched. If so go watch episode 8 on gain matching.
Hello! If i use 2inch rockwool and wrap plastic over my panels. Are they still gonna be efficent around 200-500hz? And Still not doing killing the treble?
They say plastic will reflect some frequencies. It’s best to use an acoustically transparent fabric front and back of your panels.
Use 4inch or thicker depth Rockwool. 2inch is too thin and not broadband absorption. It doesn't cost much more to buy 4inch thick rockwool.
Plus use acoustically transparent fabric. Not plastic to wrap around the wooden frames of the panels.
Hey, quick question, what are your thoughts on curtains? I have a multi-purpose room, I opted out for a dedicated cinema room. I have brick walls with short ceiling, as you can imagine the sound is an issue. I cant put soundboards without killing the vibe of the room. I was thinking of running some curtains and tucking them away when Not in use.
I would get some absorbtion panels and disguise them as artwork. put family pictures or something on top of the panel
I wouldn't use all absorption unless it's needed. Part 4 will explain this. But in short all absorption will definitely kill "the vibe" you wish to keep which is why all absorption isn't the go to method.
If you're going to use curtains I'd use thin curtains That are as acoustically transparent as possible and hide acoustic panels behind them. As mentioned above panels can be covered in fabric to be art.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks for the insight! was thinking of curtains so I can pull it in front of the wall and pull them back when I am done watching. If I were to use a thick fabric ( with no acoustic panels) will it dampen the sound a bit ? Thanks again
@@shashi.talkies I don't usually recommend this old diy trick as it's not as good as panels but it can help. You can use curtains with moving blankets behind them (also sold as sound blankets same thing basically and cheaper ) and make sure to keep thick folds in them to absorb as low as possible.
@@hometheatergurus Thank you for your suggestion!
if the material for sound deadening has a backing to it should it go towards the wall or towards the speakers
Any backing material will be more reflective than the insulation product itself, so put it towards the wall, or better yet remove it and put an air gap between your panel and the wall. If the product is colored on one side, that is a negligible difference at most vs normal "yellow" coloration, but if it is foil or paper lined on one side, then against the wall or remove and put in an air gap.
Actually the Altitude does treat reflections to a certain point and it’s crazy hearing the difference without that feature in an untreated room. It does way more than I thought it would for sure. But yes for the average processor there isn’t that function.
Great series you have going here too! Great job!
I'm familiar with Trinov but no even rooms by quest and Erskine that often have run altitude have full room acoustic packages because a processor can not fix reflections. Reflections are present because we have walls and a source of sound. We can not electronically remove them. It definitely does have state of the art mapping and sophisticated eq that when properly used can be awesome but room without treatments will still pale in comparison to a budget room with proper treatments. A room will not sound good just because it has a Trinov and good speakers. No room treatments will equal a poor sounding room.
Oh. Yes, that’s what I said though. I didn’t say it was a solution. I said it actually has functions to correct for reflections unlike all other processors. It actually does work better than I thought it would too which is awesome technology.
My original room was designed by the EGroup with Quest but now switched to Quested audio with Trinnov processing and mix of DIY diffusion/absorption with Walter (TheLion/Cinermax) doing the Trinnov calibration and Peter helping with room design.
When Walter came in to do the Altitude calibration/tuning he left me the files for no processing so I could flip back and forth to show the difference and it’s crazy what it does by itself without the treatments in place. He has to come back after I get all the panels in place to do the final ear tuning. That’s his secret weapon for sure!!! Walter has a magical set of ears that allows him to use each and every feature of the Altitude to his advantage.
Just so I make make point clear, the Altitude does do reflection processing that is proprietary to it and it does actually work well but it is NOT a replacement for treatments. It just takes the tuning even farther than other processors which will help now that more and more companies are getting into the 16/16+ channel game.
Again, really enjoying someone teaching the correct sciences for those that can’t go to one place to get this information without hours of searching. Doing a great job seriously.
@@alford35 thank you very much. Glad you're enjoying them!
How well does 1/2 inch polyester work?
you'd have to look at the coefficient specs as we discussed in the videos. I'd suspect it's not going to that great.
@@hometheatergurus .8 at 250?
@@pastaman6099 I'd be leary about that as that sounds too good to be true for 1/2". Maybe 2" -4" as how well something absorbs lower frequencies is directly related to it's depth of course internal diaphragms can help, but that's another topic. Even the better products like compressed fiber glass would be maybe .4 at 250hz with that thin of a panel.
@@hometheatergurus does its density help?
0:40 Why is it impossible to subtract out reflections electronically? If noise cancelling headphones can do it in real time, a computer should be able to map frequency vs delay and magnitude and subtract it out, right? Since there's a a delay of several milliseconds from when a sound is played and its reflection needs to be subtracted this shouldn't even have to introduce a delay.
no.. you can't electronically remove a wall. Noise cancelling headphones monitor outside noises and play them out of phase to cancel out. They don't change the source. Maybe one day auto systems will be able to measure your room reflections and then compute them in real time and play them back out of phase at the correct time but then those sounds it would play also have reflections so you're causing more issues, and then there's how many reflections in a room. You're talking some futuristic processing power but who knows in 20 years that may exist.
For those that can't incorporate treatments inside their walls, but want something besides solid colored panels, check this long running discussion out over a AVS. www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/1316623-diy-custom-printed-movie-poster-acoustic-panels-cheap.html