Vegans Get Plenty of K2...And Meat Eaters Don't Get Enough B12? (New Study!)
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- My thoughts on a recent study comparing nutrient intake AND status of healthy omnivores and vegans!
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References
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
learning.closer.ac.uk/learnin...
worldpopulationreview.com/cou...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.healthline.com/nutrition/...
apps.fas.usda.gov/newgainapi/...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
veganhealth.org/calcium-part-2/
www.webmd.com/diet/foods-high...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36083...
ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Sel...
/ how_often_do_you_eat_s...
germanfoods.org/german-food-f...
veganhealth.org/vitamin-k/#k2...
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0:00 Intro
2:18 Strengths
5:50 B12
8:38 Heart Health
10:49 Vitamin D
11:05 Iron
12:13 Calcium
14:11 Vitamin A
14:27 Zinc
14:44 Selenium
15:06 Vitamin K2
17:12 What's Going on with Vegetarians?
18:04 Supplements, f**k yea
18:31 Limitations
19:16 Conclusion
19:30 Outro
21:05 fart boyz
22:16 look at me, being positive
24:13 brave robot update
As a German I can CERTAINLY say that Germans eating a lot of Sauerkraut is more of a stereotype than it is fact. Older Germans yes maybe. But among people under 50, like in this study, it is really not that popular.
Never, in my 13 years in Germany have I seen someone eating Sauerkraut...
Which is a shame. It's so good for you and taste great!
The problem is that organic products are not allowed to be fortified in the EU. Therefore, all organic plant milks in Germany don’t have fortified calcium. And a lot of the plant milks on the supermarket shelf are organic and people think that’s a good thing…
That makes sense. I was quite shocked that some of the cheaper milks are basically sugar water. No protein, added vitamins or minerals
You can get enough calcium just by eating a varied vegan diet, you don't need fortified plant milk. I easily hit over 600 miligrams of calcium a day, and I don't drink fortified plant milk. 600 miligrams is considered more than adequate by the World Health Organization. 700 miligrams is considered adequate by the British goverment. Both are far less than the USDA's recommenndations.
The neglected mineral for bone health anyways isn't calcium, it's magnesium. Without magnesium, vitamin D isn't as effective in building bones.
Just another reason to avoid organic
That’s not true at all! Plenty of calcium fortified (organic) plant milks in France!
In the netherlands all the cheap milks are fortified and dutch ppl don't rlly buy the expensive organic stuff anyway. Life is expensive enough around here!
Ooh, love you talking about that study. I really wanted to participate, bit couldn't because of a pre-existing condition.
I'm excited that it came out.
German here, regarding fortified plant milk it is the same here: if its fortified, it is fortified with Calcium. One of the biggest plant milk brands in Germany if not the biggest (Alpro) fortifies with Calcium, B12, B2 and D2
I love these videos where you go deep into papers. That's why I started following your channel many years ago.
Not surprising, for the 15 years I was vegetarian I didn't supplement anything except calcium because my doctor said it would help with acid reflux. Now I actually pay attention to my nutrient intake. Being vegetarian and vegan has never been about my own health, but the older I get the more important my health is to me. Speaking of healthy omnivores not eating the "tasty" sources of B12, after 18 months full vegan I don't miss most of the junk food I used to eat but I do miss egg whites and low-fat cottage cheese.
Did it help your reflux? I was always told calcium carbonate caused rebound.
I miss these videos. I love putting them on in the background
That's a really pretty shirt! You look great :D and healthy, so glad I found this channel, it's one that has made being vegan easier and more realistic, I remember seeing the 100% fruit people when I was in highschool and thought "I could never do that". Thankfully I don't have to to be vegan haha, glad we are mostly out of that fruit-only era on vegan youtube
Keyword is Vegans need to supplement as the vegan diet is lacking
Definitely. It's important for everyone to check for deficiencies and supplement for prevention. Vegans are especially at risk.
Well, plant milks in Germany are fortified with Ca++, but not the organic ("bio") ones, as it's forbidden to fortify them. And organic products are very popular, not to say that there is a sort of paranoia concerning conventional foods among health-conscious people.
Great info thank you!!! ♥️🙏Your videos are the best 🙏☺️💜💕🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷☺️☺️☺️☺️
thank you for your hard work.
Thank you for reading into the science for us
About the muddy shoes thing, I moved to Sweden in the beginning of the summer and, here, removing your shoes by the door is the standard. At first, I thought it was a peculiar custom of the Swedes. Then, on my first winter, I went like "ohhh... I get it now".
So most plant milks in UK are fortified with B12 D2 and Calcium so I’d imagine Germany probably are because we share a lot of the popular brands (Alpro for example). Also I’m noticing plant milk brands increasingly including iodine - which is great!
Unfortunately, organic plant milks are not allowed to be fortified in the EU
@@sea4705 I don’t bother with organic plant milks, I tend to go for supermarket own brands because they’re cheaper and fortified. But yeah I always found that strange that organic can’t be fortified. I only noticed when I bought vanilla provamel soya milk back in the day
@@ahthatsnescafe2985, those fortified plant-based milk substitutes are also usually "fortified" with added sugars and table salt (and sometimes even vegetable oils), what essentially turns them into junk food.
@ Alpro no sugar oat (and other varieties) milk not only doesn’t have added sugar, they quite literally remove the naturally occurring sugars too. Most brands in the UK have a “no sugar” or “no added sugar” version. Also nothing wrong with healthy fats.
@@ahthatsnescafe2985sadly some cheap milks (
Love it when you upload videos 😊
That shirt looks so good on you, the color makes you pop! But, I'm not surprised really, the doctor said my B12 levels were unusually high.
I'd love to see a video from you going over the essential supplements for vegans and which kinds you and your family use
I am pretty sure she has one already. It may just be about what she takes. She also talked about the multi she gives her kids in the video about vegan kids.
She Is only a charlatan and say bullsh*ts, she refuses looking at all studies on effect supplements for general popolation
watch?v=-qCz6_80PQg for those interested
You have so many videos speaking out against small sample sizes, yet you make a video about one small study.
German here, concerning iodine: back in the 80s (? around that time) they found out many people were deficient in iodine so there was a recommendation to use iodized salt for cooking. As far as I am aware the average iodine recommendations are easily met if you cook with iodized salt. So this would apply for omnivores and vegans/vegetarians alike.
Furthermore, as a vegetarian I should be more diligent with my supplements.
Would you cosider doing your updated take on going vegan for beginners?
like a mix of pratical tips and important things to remeber like suplemment on this and that and how to build meals. I think a lot of omnivores meals are centered around meat so knowing how to center it around (beans?) would be nice.
What are some good intro to veganism meals (ideally some faster/easier options too).
How would you recommend people transition?
Basically just a going vegan guide for newbies. I know you hav some videos about it but i would like to hear your updates takes and a bit more details so its more like a guide and less so tips and tricks if that makes sense.
Vegan for 10 years . 25 yr old f. just got bloodwork this week. i take b12 & d3 gummies. everything came back perfectly In range including iron and b12 :)
Just wanted to say I love the shirt! Where’d you get it??
Thank you! Amazon. The brand is "Miagooo" lol
16:15 Those data about sauerkraut consumption per capita in Germany are highly unreliable since sauerkraut can be (and is) easily made at home out of fresh cabbage.
As a German who doesn't like Sauerkraut: I f-ing *LOVE* Blaukraut (Red Cabbage)
It's so incredibly good. If you ever want your mind blown by a dish that looks awful but tastes like heaven, boil some potatoes in saltwater, cook some spinach and cook some pickled red cabbage and then combine all of them on a plate. It's so, so good. Important to note however that there's an impostor kind of red cabbage you can buy (at least here in Germany) known as "Apple Red Cabbage" where they've mixed in apple with the red cabbage, and that stuff tastes disgusting. You can add some vegan Bratwürste (sausages) or vegan scrambled egg for additional goodness, but the main 3 ingredients together are already amazing.
After couple of years (~4) of veganism I wanted to check my B12 status and then I entered the rabbit hole of reliable B12 testing. Apparently blood B12 doesn't cut it and can be obfuscated by folic acid, transcobalamin (active B12) is nice but it's not clear if it actually does what it supposed to do, etc. Ended up checking B12, homocysteine (would be high with B12 deficiency) and methylomalonic acid. Wanted to check transcobalamin, but the price was the highest among these 4 tests and had to choose 3 of them to be quite sure. What I'm trying to say that they did a good job on testing B12 status in this study, since it's mm acid, active B12 and homocysteine, so not only the active form of B12, but also relevant metabolic pathways.
Did you go through your doctor or some other avenue? My doctor has never sent a homocyceine test but has done a B12 test.
I normally supplement B12 but have not for a few weeks and my toes have been tingling and cold and I am thinking of but I don't want to do a test that means nothing or do a test that is more expensive than it needs to be. I haven't been taking my other supplements so I could be deficient in something else.
@@xSwordLilyx Had to do it privately, the public health insurance does not cover such things here unfortunately. If you are a long-time vegan (liver stores of B12 should be depleted after 5 years, so that's a good threshold), definitely check a couple of markers at least once to see if supplements/fortified food do their job. Especially if you have symptoms that may point at B12 deficiency.
B12, homocysteine and active B12 are not that exotic tests, but the last one can be expensive. Methylomalonic acid was cheaper in my area, but it raised some eyebrows when I ordered it and the nurse never heard anyone doing such a test :-)
Yep, your "studies". Meanwhile vegans with vitamin D: *"Can You Get Enough Vitamin D3 On Your Vegan Diet?"*
Very few vegans in Germany, excuse me?! Germany has surprisingly many vegans. I get your point though, great video!
Based on the four-day weighed food diaries, the vegan group had an average of 17.75mg of dietary cholesterol intake per day. I don't understand how this doesn't call into question the other numbers.
Cold weather also ideal time to mail poo!
This was actually very interesting and useful to me - I've been eating almost exclusively vegetarian diet (with a little fish being the deviation - and lately my fish eating has become rarer and rarer), and for about a month now, I've made my diet a LOT healthier, and maybe about 95% of what I've eaten has been vegan. I see some of the foods I've eaten have been fortified with B12, but I should probably start taking a B12 supplement.
Cool video. ❤
There's so many studies. Vegans showing pro-vegan studies. Keto channels showing pro-keto studies. It's beyond confusing.
It's actually such a shit show. I'd say that the most reliable way of creating a healthy diet for yourself without pouring hundreds if not thousands of hours into research and education is to follow overlapping guidelines presented by international/national health organizations. Contrary to the common belief in alt medicine and fad diet communities - it's probably reasonable to assume that the WHO is not trying to cripple the human race to sell them more medicine. That's the highest degree of certainty we have.
Don't remember how you called them, but something like "alternative nutrition/medical," which is hilarious to me, but also a pretty fair take. I think some folks, with varying levels of training, expertise, and sanity, talk more about actually existing nutritional challenges people face that aren't as talked about in orthodox medical education and practice. However, they do also, on select occasions, say things like "gigadose methylated B vitamins and all your psychiatric woes will be solved instantaneously," so discernment is necessary there, as everywhere.
Lovely shirt!
@unnaturalvegan I've just come across your channel and subscribed. Thank you so much for this. I've been wanting to become vegan, firstly by trying vegetarianism to ease gently into it, but I'm coming across so much conflicting advice - much of it saying that we shouldn't need so many supplements 💊, and that if a whole food-group elimination diet (i.e. veganism eliminating all animal food products) doesn't provide all our nutritional needs, then it can't be naturally healthy (which kind of makes sense 🤔). However, your evaluation of the data is compelling, so I'm still considering going down the veganism route as I hate unnecessary animal suffering and want to do my bit to help protect the environment. My main concern is what supplements and exactly how much, I'd need as a 60-year-old post-menopausal woman on HRT. I've seen vitamin B12 sublingual sprays, for example, with 1000 iu per day, whereas the WHO recommends just 2.4 mg per day! This sort of thing leaves me very confused and concerned. I don't want to potentially overdose on anything, especially if I use B12 fortified nutritional yeast and take a vitamin B12 supplement, for instance. I really wish there was clearer advice out there. Do you have any information on what supplements I'd need if I became vegan and what sort of doses, given that some of these things will come from food anyway (apart for B12)? I'd be so grateful for this advice. Thank you 🙏
Do you have a video regarding where you are currently at, regarding what to eat etc? I know you used to be raw etc and have criticized plant based docs
I’m wondering. If I eat mostly Soylent-style diet, woud that count as supplements for the purpose of this kind of study?
I wouldn't see, why not
Thanks for making me laugh. Cheers.
yassssss ate as usual
Supplementation is so important! I went way too long not supplementing on a vegan diet and only consistently started when I had to get part of my small bowel removed Bec of IBD. I feel better even with worse nutrient absorption Bec supplements work!
Veganism made you sick.
Were you vegan when you were diagnosed with IBD?
I bet they used a 4 day dairy v longer because strict adherence is higher for shorter durations.
I wonder if Koreans get a lot of K2 from kimchi 🤔
Also is the version of food being eaten made traditionally? If you are not promoting a good environment for probiotics, then you are not getting the good stuff.
HI NATURAL VEGAN, HAVE YOU WATCHED ANY OF DR PETER ROGERS VIDEOS???
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR TAKE ON HIS DIEATARY RECOMMENDATIONS
17:10 As someone who stands at the fridge in Asian food stores franticly checking the ingredients of every pack, I can say most natto is very not vegan. They usually have fish sauce lol
Man i love the button cowl neckline your top has
I get acne (face and chest) when I eat almond products because I have a mild oral allergy. Maybe you have oral allergy syndrome to something in that brand of ice cream?
One of my favourite past times is mailing my poop😅
Always remember, one long-term healthy vegan proves that is possible. Even if there´s a billion unhealthy vegans. It doesn´t matter how many ways to do it wrong, as long as there´s one way to do it right.
Yep, it's still an alternative, and so of course people are going to do it wrong, especially when it's often viewed as a trend. It does take more work, most of which is just learning, the rest is the practice of that knowledge.
And we have entire vegetarian cultures that have existed for thousands of years. At the very least we know meat is not essential for anyone.
Where are those billions of unhealthy vegans then? I certainly don't see them
9:57 How can cholesterol intake be 17.75 mg/day in the "vegan" group (a tenth of that in the omnivore group)?
7:17 And how can vitamin B12 intake be 0.43 μg/day in the "vegan" group (a fifth of that in the omnivore group) excluding vitamin B12 supplementation (on average ~224 μg/day in the "vegan" group)? From exclusively fortified foods, mankai duckweed and a few fermented foods?
"How can cholesterol intake be 17.75 mg/day in the "vegan" group" 🤔Yes, that question does need to be addressed.
@@aq9415Because it's also produced in our cells
@@educational-101 The study suggest that it is intake.. "Table 2 displays nutrient intake in the 3 dietary groups based on the four-day weighed food diaries." and the row is labeled "Cholesterol intake (mg/d)".
q9415 coconut oil then👌
@@educational-101 0mg of cholesterol, like all plant derived foods.
GREAT coverage of that study/
+1
I would be curious as to what those vegetarians and vegans are eating as their fiber intake was still pretty low. Clearly lots of processed garbage still.
I get 70 grams or more on most days. A very light on fiber day for me would be 40+ grams, which is still more than the vegan group.
In short, they need to be eating more whole plants!
K2 supp. is good, regardless of your diet.
Possibly! The science is mixed.
I always feel vegetarians can be ignorant with the "superiority" of their diet when disregarding supplementations.
studies don't show benefit in take B12 supplements for risk popolation and can increase cancer like animal products so.....
Could you please tell me which studies you are referring to? I'm interested in learning more.
@@educational-101 sure for example
"Vitamin B supplementation increased the death rate due to cancer by 5%" but further worse "Vitamin B supplementation might play an important role in cancer incidence if the mean age of the participants is
"Review
Homocysteine-lowering interventions for preventing cardiovascular events
Compared with placebo, there were no differences in effects of homocysteine-lowering interventions on myocardial infarction (homocysteine-lowering = 7.1% versus placebo = 6.0%; RR 1.02, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.95 to 1.10, I2 = 0%, 12 trials; N = 46,699; Bayes factor 1.04, high-quality evidence), death from any cause (homocysteine-lowering = 11.7% versus placebo = 12.3%, RR 1.01, 95% CI 0.96 to 1.06, I2 = 0%, 11 trials, N = 44,817; Bayes factor = 1.05, high-quality evidence), or serious adverse events (homocysteine-lowering = 8.3% versus comparator = 8.5%, RR 1.07, 95% CI 1.00 to 1.14, I2 = 0%, eight trials, N = 35,788; high-quality evidence). "
"Review
Meta-analysis of B vitamin supplementation on plasma homocysteine, cardiovascular and all-cause mortality
none effect on the risk of CVD, MI, CHD, cardiovascular death, or all-cause mortality."
"Vitamin B supplementation, homocysteine levels, and the risk of cerebrovascular disease: a meta-analysis
subgroup analyses for cyanocobalamin (vitamin B12) but did not find a significant benefit regarding intervention dose of vitamin B12 or baseline blood B12 concentration."
Hey! 🙂
Hey!
@@UnnaturalVegan I hope you’re doing well. 😌💞
Natto is often made with fish sauce. So not vegan.
Higher B12 levels Is related cancer, aslo from supplements, and from not supplements aslo higher mortality. And studies don't show benefit in take supplements for population at risk b12 deficiency
12:39 In Europe, all calcium-fortified plant-based milk substitutes come with added sugars and added salt. Hence why so many health-conscious people may choose to avoid them.
I think Alpro has sugar-free soy milk and some other brands too. But yes, most contain serious amounts of sugar
but little added sugar and salt Is not harmfull
@@ononono7016, I stand corrected. Alpro has a sugar-free, vitamin D- and calcium-fortified soy milk but it still contains added sea salt.
we inject cattle and fortified food is needed for a reason if ya munch on meat
Omnivores, you need to take your B12 😂
dairy has plenty of B12
Came for the boobs, stayed for the reasonable analysis. She says she gets vitamin a from supplements inatead of carrots, world cancer research fund says it increases the risk for cancer. "beta-carotene provided no protection against lung cancer; however, quite unexpectedly, two of the trials found a higher risk for lung cancer for those subjects given beta-carotene compared with those that were not."----Beta carotene: from biochemistry to clinical trials, nutrition reviews journal
Butt is distinct from legs 🙃
Science sucks lol lets go back to the times of rickets and TB. Less wool more mushroom vibe though
Going vegan would be a big Missed Steak 😋
Or a missed steak could be a great thing 😊
I want to see a study where meat eaters and vegans take no supplements and eat no fortified food. Everyone knows vegans will be tragically unhealthy in a short time. vegans can't claim to be on a healthy diet when their diet requires them to take supplements AKA drugs forever. regardless, meat eaters live to the oldest in age by a large margin and have a higher life expectancy, and in the number one country where they consume the most meat they are number one globally.
I will stick to eating meat, avoiding processed food, and not eating drugs from a lab AKA supplements to live on a diet that can help me live to the oldest in age. I find it hilarious when vegans brag about their unhealthy diets filled with drugs and have drastically shorter lifespan.
What's hilarious is the ridiculous huge amount of supplements the animals get, so you can think you're healthy "naturally"
In todays age we all take drugs so we don't get ill. Vit D is a must for folks in parts of the world, ie europe. B12, we put that in animal feed for a reason. also if someone takes a pill in order not to munch om death, i say well done, once again science rocks. You not been to India were the Jain lives I suppose
"Hong Kong eats the most amount of meat and animal foods in the world and has the longest life expectancy."
This is just a post-hoc fallacy and ecological fallacy. In this case, you are suggesting temporal connections that can't be verified to exist based on the data provided. More to the point, differential ecological associations between populations can't really tell us anything about differences in outcomes between individuals consuming the least meat versus individuals consuming the most meat.
For example, there is also ecological association between smoking and life expectancy. But, we wouldn't infer from this association that cigarette consumption increases longevity. Those sorts of inferences are what prospective cohort studies and randomized controlled trials are for, as they are actually equipped to assess individual-level exposure and outcomes.
Hong Kong's meat intake has been steadily increasing and didn't reach UK-levels of intake in 1972 and US-levels of intake in 1967. If the hypothesis is that meat causes higher mortality via chronic disease, then people who started eating that much meat during those time periods would barely even be old enough to contribute substantially higher mortality statistics at the time of this report anyway. So, while it's true that Hong Kong now eats a lot of meat and enjoys longer lifespans, you are not appreciating the base rate of historical meat consumption for this population.
As an aside, it is also interesting to note that those within Hong Kong who followed a non-ancestral "Portfolio diet" (which is characterized by low saturated fats, sodium, and dietary cholesterol, as well as higher plant proteins, vegetable oils, high fruits, vegetables, and whole grains) were at a lower risk of dying from all causes, as well as dying of CVD or cancer (PMID: 34959911). In fact, multiple sensitivity analyses were done to remove the possibility for reverse causality, and the reductions in risk are still apparent.
@@fitnesse1288 i never mentioned hong kong, but yes. They consume the most animals and the have the highest life expectancy on earth. Thank you for proving my point. Meat eaters have the highest life expectancy, and meat eaters also live the longest in age. 👍 this is why i eat meat and will never go vegan
So, since breastfed babies require supplements (Vit D and Iron), does that mean breastfeeding is less healthy than formula? Of course not. Whether or not someone takes a supplement (whether for short or long periods of time) does not determine their health. It’s a single piece of a puzzle. At the end of the day health outcomes determine someone’s health.