Could the Springboks 'nightmare' semi-final have lost them the cup in New Zealand final?
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- čas přidán 23. 10. 2023
- "I think New Zealand will win. I think it's going to be very close."
Bad conditions set South Africa into a difficult semi-final against England which might damage their confidence against a resurgent New Zealand, Stuart Barnes tells #timesradi.
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Agree with all Mr Barnes said. Bongi was speaking Afrikaans and most likely said it’s out on the wide side. No rude words used. Bongi isn’t that kind of guy.
AFRIKAANS KANT = ENGLISH SIDE.
Stuart Barnes you are a breath of fresh air. You have the wonderful ability to be dispassionate, fair minded and even although you know far moe about the game than almost anyone, you keep things simple and logical, and do not avoid the obvious , in favor of some grandiose idea, meant to impress. I learn a lot from listening to you and I thoroughly enjoy it. Thank you. And all this in spite of disagreeing with you sometimes
Thank you world rugby pundits for writing us off. We love it to go as underdogs as SA. We will surprise, maybe you think we are a Northen Hemisphere nation, the chockers of this world.
Steward what a fantastic RUGBY brain 👍👍👍👍👍from 🇿🇦S.Africa 🇿🇦
I do agree that New Zeeland have the momentum going into the final- but- there is a habit of underestimating the Boks and their ability to play a variety of styles. SA did score more tries than France and England. The Boks have a great attacking game
Thanks for the extra 'e' but we would like our 'a' back please.
@@FishandHunt Haha!
South Africa is not battered, my friend. Please get your facts straight.
I don't know if I agree at all. NZ have not had to come from behind and grind out a win while their primary gameplan is being picked apart by the opposition. SA have come through two games where the French and the English nullified their gameplan and their forward dominance, but they managed to grind out a win regardless. I think SA will have the mental edge once the tackles start connecting.
Yep, Nick Mallet spoke about psychological flatness after a massive game.
He predicted it and as a very successful, knowledgeable coach said it's inevitable and that the Boks will now be ready for the final.
As a South African, Stuart's take on the run up to the finals and prediction for the final is excellent.
Most of my compatriots dont agree with me but I think that NZ are favorites by more than just a small margin. A seemingly weary Bok side was outclassed by England, and with all the support in the world I do not know how they are going to get themselves up for this one.
But for us there is always hope. Our team is tenacious and tough, and has the ability to turn things around when it matters. We hope we can do it again.
Two things: NZ plays beautiful, competent, rugby, just like Ireland does. But they are not the demolition squad of old. The only top side they faced in this RWC was France, to whom they lost. Secondly, the Boks were both exhausted after beating Ireland, and secretly resentful that they had to play England in the semi-final game, because they didn't think that England deserved to be there. So they went into the game with lead boots. However, as we all know, the bomb squad came to the rescue at the death. So, for the final, although NZ are well rested and have their act together, the Boks are a stronger and more creative team. Ironically their lacklustre performance against England may have worked in their favour because they hardly got physically exhausted. Thus, my prediction for the final is a Bok win by seven to twelve points.
@@christophervan6966 I only saw your comment today Christopher. Your take, a week before the final was absolutely spot on. The best rugby pundits could not have done better. And if Bongi did not get injured, which affected our lineouts, your points differential prediction would probably have been very close as well.
The comments about the Curry complaint seem to assume that the complaint is valid and has been proven?
Massive respect for Stuart....honest assessment on everything....hopefully he visits our country some time.....
One thing you forgot to mention Sir, better shape no longer counts. 33 players in the squad. Any in the Bok squad can start of finish, This is a defining moment for world rugby. A moment Re-written by the Springbok NO STARTING 15 protocol. The bench of forwards and backs in the 33 are Equally potent. This is what the Bokke have gifted rugby union with. Every rugby union team in the world including the A.B'S will remodel according to this outliers Bokke outfit. Go Bokke.
We'll said Mate. 👌🏽
We'll know when we see the teams. Some rotation is needed for SA, just not sure who they should drop. Do you drop Arendse for moodie or AM?
What a refreshing and interesting analysis. Even if not in agreement with the conclusions drawn.
Please note that SA has 12 official languages. Bongi could've communicated in afrikaans to his other teammates
The Mbonambi incident is a storm in a teacup
caused by the limited linguistic ability of
most English people, who only speak one language. The Springboks communicate with
each other in Afrikaans in order to be more obtuse. The word used by mbonambi is Kant
which means side ie wyd Kant is wide side
wit Kant is the white side, swart Kant is the black side. There is a different set of words
for the insult perceived by Mr Curry, not to mention a lexicon of different African insults
which could be used should the need arise!
It’s just a side show!SA focus
This is a gift - the ammo we need to unite around the love of a true SA hero - superhero. 🙏
If bonambi is guilty he must ride the tiger. If not I will be equally happy.
Of Bongi is guilty he can find another country to play for that's for sure
@@seanperrings8460 And if his not guilty (as it has turned out to be), what should happen to disgraceful Curry?
That was a good talk and well worth the listen. Thank you
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Stewart Barnes
This is on a knife’s edge, there’s a fine line at some point between being battle hardened and fatigue (Boks) likewise also between being fresh and possibly undercooked (All Blacks). Please boys, Bokke, don’t do the one pointer thing again my heart can’t take it no more 😁😎
I expect the All Blacks to play with an extremely high level of intensity and skill.. a very similar game plan from the Auckland game. A lot of kick variations.. high contestable kicks, short chip- kicks moving the big Bok forwards around the park. This will further fatigue SA after their tough knockout games.
2 extremely 2 grind games in a row, there will be tired bodies and emotional peaks from those. scraping out 2 games from the fire with 1 point wins... and then expecting them to get up again against a peaking NZ team who had mere gentle breeze of resistance in their semi final is probably a bridge too far.
Thank you for addressing the Bongi Mbonambi incident, but let's wait for the Rugby governing body decision.
IF it were a white player making that comment about a darker skinned player.....there would be calls to kick the team out of the World Cup. Just saying...
Ever hear the words “Battle Hardened”?
This is what the Boks ARE and what the ABs ARE NOT.
ABs played two top teams in the comp (Fra and Ire) with a 50% win/loss record.
Boks played four top teams (Sco, Ire, Fra and Eng) with a 75% win/loss record.
And lets be real. Ireland was in the bag had O-Keefe blown that last maul for what it was
@@marcominny9912 correct.
The AB's don't have to be "Battle-Hardened" to win anything. They are just simply THE BEST rugby team in the world. PERIOD. If/when they loose a game, it is by far the odd event.
In the run-up to this World-cup, I thought they finally lost their magic, when they lost to South Africa.
But BOY OH BOY, did they rectify that perception. I think they deliberately deceived the world.
The All-Blacks just seem to be the top team, always for many many years. In my short lifetime, I have never perceived any other team as so consistently skilled, strong and at the top of the ladder all the time.
@@theobserver6493 that’s wonderful
@@theobserver6493 boy oh boy are they deceiving us, they are even keeping this act up by losing a WC final, no one will be expecting that and this plan will play out perfectly for them to win the RC in 2024.
Valid points. NZ have the edge as I see it. ENG completely disrupted our game, and deserve credit for their performance.
Fascinating interview. I think England can build a better side with a thinking fly half.
What most of the pundits forgot was this.
The BOKS may not have been fresher due to their heavy schedule BUT the were by far more BATTLE-HARDENED.
Like listening to Stuart although he can be wrong often. Hope he is wrong about Boks being too fatigued to win.
In that case Boks should at least do a 6-2 split.
Don't worry he is the guy who said Sam Cane is no good and Argentina will beat the All Blacks
SA has come thru 2 very tough knock-out games. ABs looked in much better shape in their semi final game... Saturday is a different ball game... Springboks will put on a top performance. Forget about our poor shape against England.... I predict a 20-15 win for Springboks
Just to say, No one ever asks rhe Springboks to win. The Springboks tell themselves they are going to win. They put pressure on themselves to play exeptionally well and use it in positive ways. Also Springboks might not have looked comfortable but they came away with enough points to knock over England at the point it mattered most.
Everyone was saying this is possibly the best if not one of the best English rugby teams and the second stringer Springbok team. Say what you like about the game or the teams but given that vein of thought, it was an underrated Springboks that beat the best England team. One other thing, the way Jacques Nienaber has selected his team, no one player is better than any other. They all get a lot of attention and play time. The fact that one player steps out and another steps in to take his place just means "Well done for all your hard work. Now its your team mate that must complete the job."
Regardless of whether it was a black on white slur, or a white on black slur, the point is that, unless the ref has heard it himself, or it is clearly picked up on audio, you can't just dish out a red card based on only the word of an opposing player. And it is clear from the replay of the game just before Curry made his complaint, Mbongi was calling in Afrikaans that the ball was going to the "wyd kant" (wide side). A red card would have been a gross injustice that could have cost South Africa the match. The ref did very well to resist what seems to have been gamesmanship on the part of the "wit kant" (white side).
Curry is a DISGRACE! ABSOLUTE DISGRACE and should be censured by WR!
Do the Boks have enough in the tank to go again, against the ABs who look to get better each game?
Good question. Im a Bok fan but even I don't know
NZ had an easy route to the final compared to Iraland and South Africa. So yes,they should have more in the tank compared to SA.
One point I will make, and yes I am speaking from the advantage of hindsight but I believed this at this point in the RWC.
As I had been watching the URC playoff matches, one team that surprised me from time to time was Munster. I am a Stormers fan through-and-through so the final result was very tough pill to swallow but having watched the Munster game plan I was thinking there is something to be said about a team who though they were exhausted had the mental capacity to push on and score when it ultimately matters. We look at the URC QF between Munster and Glasgow where Munster had been playing an away game. They had played about 4 away games by that point and had won almost each and drawn one, they then moved to Scotland to play Glasgow who they beat 14-9. After that they then had to play Leinster in Leinster and had to pull out all the stops to beat Leinster who they beat 16-15 same score as here for Springboks v England. And then came the final Munster had to play their I think se7enth away game on the trot at the peak of the tournament and they beat the reigning champions at home. Oh and they weren't given much favours by the fans.
My thinking was that given a team like Munster could play 7 away games and come away with the trophy was like music to my ears.
There was another factor about that final that I realised was significant was in contrast the Stormers had all home games in the QF and SF and obviously the Final but they managed to beat both the Bulls and Connacht by comfortable margins. And I wondered even then if the Stormers were riding a wave of success that had not properly prepared them for a potentially grueling final against a team they had not yet beaten in the first two seasons of the URC. I kind of equated that SF with the ABs SF and the fact that they played a day earlier meant they had an extra day to wait. And my belief was the battle hardened test of two heavily played and low scoring matches were like a fire test for Munster that gave them the grit to win the Cup. And that similarly South Africa could have had the battle hardened grit to make it past the All Blacks to clinch the final. Munster won by a few points and so because this is AB Springboks final the game is not going to be high scoring and yet also a close deficit. I certainly wasnt writing off the ABs because I knew they can win on the day but somehow I had high hopes and beliefs Springboks could do it.
This was what I hoped for.
Wow, Barnes takes such a step back when analysing the situation here, that he must not see a single Englishman left around him....
It was a great semi-final, but not a good test mach. Have to agree here. Great effort from England, but not a game for the ages, and most definitely not a launching platform for the future.
I disagree, a total launching pad for the future, just as the improved Welsh performances are for us. The damp conditions caused much of the handling errors, and under the circumstances the players did as well as they could on both sides
The weather was a huge player in this game.
Nice day, good pitch & SA trounce England.
lol...IF ....
And how did it end?? Greetings from
From a happy and proud SA. NZ marched right past victory with all their saved up energy to their 😮pity party.
The gentleman's take on the Bongi saga is absolutely spot on and incredibly enlightened for this context. Race is not skin colour, race is using skin colour to determine how much social power an individual is allocated in a society. Curry has never and will never experience racism, because he has and will always be racialised as white, which is the default, the state that all other racial states derive from and are measured against.
Why do you assume that he did say something like that., Bongi just would not do that but there is a a simple explanation, namely he was speaking Afrikaans and saying something perfectly OK and appropriate to the game.
SA's Quarter and Semi final teams was battered and bruised playing such physical games. The final team will look much different against NZ. SA should win it.
Why do I feel the rugby world want New Zealand to win?
Watch England vs Australia at Twickenham from 1984 - Barnes kicked the ball away every time he had possession...
26:52 "What he said was apalling" - This show pre-judging of words the English didn't understand, and made assumptions about. The words spoken are in Afrikaans. Phonetically it sounds like something rude in English, but means something completely different in Afrikaans. So - language barrier.
just for interest sake - IF Mbonambi indeed said what the English rugby player thought he said, it would have been equally insulting to Mbonambi's white team mates . . . . But, NO, that is not what Mbonambi said 🙂
Its amazing that people just accept Curry's word! He is a disgrace!
Bongi didnt say that Stuart - you cant just take what one person said in the heat of battle verbatim - there is absolutely ZERO proof Bongi said anything like that to Curry.
Good interview. I think the Boks have a better squad than the ABs, though I think the ABs will win in this one off match.
World Rugby should review the draw for the next RWC. A good place to go for the review is Timbuktu. Quiet and peaceful. Fair draw for the NH teams possible.
One important fact: the Springboks thirve on this type of contests. It somehow energizes them. By how much, time will tell.
Barnes makes valid comments regarding England. I fear snatching defeat from the jaws of victory will mean no change still for English rugby. A disaster.
Watch the space…. Springboks by 12
I have SA by 13
So fair and objective until he decides that Bongi, wasn't saying "side" in Afrikaans.
Cmon, ask yourselves which is the more likely.
I mean, the reverse is also true, that NZ have not yet had to grind out a victory when the other team has stopped them playing their game. The Boks have had to do this against the French and the English.
Kant means side in afrikaans. Om kant off side. Wit kant white side. Leave it for those with the facts please
Kak praat ,,,tronk toe ...
@@tobolee6385 Dis nie kak praat. Watch the replay from just before Curry approaches the ref. Mbongi is at the breakdown and can be heard shouting "wyd kant" (wide side). England then does send the ball to the wide side.
Can agree with stuart on some things. England went to the final in 2019, and forwards got pushed off the park. If you were a coach returning from that, you would make sure your forwards raised their game to the same level, if not more. Forward to 2023, meet the same team in the semi final, and the second half got pushed off the park, again. England played poor all tournement, and the fact that borthwick can say he was proud of his players, shows he is seeing a different game through his eyes, as opposed to ours, the England rugby fans.
I am fine losing games, as long as your team plays at 100% all the time.
I would like to add, I am hating this high five, slap on the back every time they win a scrum or ruck. If I adopted that attitude, as an electrician, every time a fitted a socket, I would then high five all the trades on the site. Ridiculous. Rant over.
…much too fine, for comfort, most certainly‼️
👊🔥🪖
England could have beaten us if they knew how to score tries or attack at all. Luckily they didn't.
If the referee had taken the Bongi incident more seriously, then Curry would have been sent off! Curry is a DISGRACE! ABSOLUTE DISGRACE and coward!
As far as supporting the ANC is concerned, they have shown themselves to be corrupt to the core!
Who won the final?
Barnes on the ANC is, however, a case of kak praat. Went from frying pan into the fire. Don’t know how many people have died and suffered as a result. Probably, millions. No excuses for the Nats, either.
Bongi was speaking in Afrikaans and in Afrikaans side is kant which sounds exactly like the c word in English. He was saying white side in Afrikaans which is “wit kant”, you can see how curry in the heat of the moment thought Bongi was calling him a white c*nt
THE DRAW SHOULD BE ONLY ONE YEAR OUT, FROM THE TOURNAMENT PERIOD....
PS- COME ON WORLD RUGBY....
I came for silver and found gold at 26:37
sore loosers, Springbok is not a 3 times champion by chance they an beat England anywhere and anytime.
I How can they be 'sore losers' when neither of them were in the losing team? 2 If you listen to what Barnes says, he agrees with you. He says SA are much better, and the conditions evened things up.
@@ajw9533 all this England negativity - they played to their strengths in the conditions presented to them.
Also, England is a young team with a good base to build on, this was good experience for them in a high pressure scenario.
We will know how far along the team is and if the SA game was just a fluke by how they go in the third place playoff against Argentina.
Farrell was more dignified on defeat than any South African I have ever seen
Don't under estimate SA
Stuart seems to take Curry's word for the so called racial insult. It wasn't a racial insult to say "white side" in Afrikaans. Curry was trying to get Bongi into trouble with the ref to get the advantage for England; in other words, cheating.
Nightmare, how do you figure that when they won.
Oh please England has always been a tough team to beat at the World Cup. Look how they came back in 2007 and beat the All Blacks in 2019. The Boks are super fit, let's see what happens on Saturday you lot of damn Europeans
World Rugby remind me of FIFA before the house of cards fell down. Funny how obvious corruption gets away with it until the inevitable judgement day. No Canada and USA is a testament to their incompetence. Will we ever see a World Cup in South Africa again?
Bongi Didn't say it though
The draw favoured New Zealand so heavily.
Would have been different if NZ beat France and SA beat Ireland in the pools.
Interestingly, all teams in the RWC have lost a game.
Three of the 4 teams that won their pool went out at the QF. England almost did too.
We almost had 4 SH teams in the SFs, as in 2015, but for England surviving the Fiji resurgence.
Mr. Barnes, World rugby and the British press have totaly miss understood what took place between Bongi and Curry regarding that racial slur in Saturday nights semi final in Paris. All of the springboks are bilingual and in fact some trilingual but predominantly speak Afrikaans on the field. The Afrikaans word for "side" is KANT, yes you've guessed it, it's pronounciation is exactly the same as c**t. As Curry plays most of his rugby off side - Bongi could have been commenting in Arikaans that Curry was " AF KANT" meaning in English off side. This to an English ear may be interpreted as a slur if they do not speak afrikaans. Someone should take dear old uncle Bill to one side and explain the facts to him. This is nothing more then a tempist in a teapot and is now going a long way to spoiling the competiton.
South Africa winning 2 games with 1 point only. New Zealand have a great team.
False equivalency Annie, look it up. Or just say the games each played were vastly different wrt the opposition they faced
make that 3 games with one point. NZ do have a great team
@@jonathandavis8599 Yes. At that stage it was still only 2 ... with the next one the finals. I'm very happy!
Stuart, love your rugby comments - stay away from the politics...
Why should he? He made his England debut the same year as the controversial England tour of Apartheid South Africa in 1984.
You sure about that...erroneous premise!
Why assume the red card was justified? It wasn't as the offensive words mean "white side" in Afrikaans. What color does England play in??? He was communicating with his teammates. This really shows up how racist the English Press is.. This is just not fair play I would say
cane is SA's biggest asset
All of Ireland thought exactly how you do.
@@korocam9137 35 - 7 only 6 weeks ago... What was your excuse? You had none, calling Ian Foster the dark era of NZ rugby and cannot wait for Scott Robinson to take over and rebuild. All of NZ thought they were not going to get past the QF. Now that they beat Ireland (never made it past a QF) and then won against a team that struggled against a horrible England team who only had 4 months to prepare, now you are the best side in the world again and you are peaking? Lost to SA, lost to France, thrashed minnos and Argentina. Only good game NZ has played is the game against a nation of chokers, Ireland... Hmmmmm, amazing logic here!
Bongi was found innocent
what he said was wit kant....meaning white line or side depending on the context.......there was no racism here....the guy took it out of context
What a resfreshing and honest take on the rugby semi-final on Saturday!
25:25 this sounds like a blatant racist double standard by Stewart Barnes - infact a rather pathetic attempt at virtue sigalling
- a racist slur is just that regardless of the race of the perptrator - & conduct rules apply equally to everyone.
True, but it might have been said in strategy (code for go left, go right, jump low, etc) and in afrikaans which can have different meaning to its english counterpart. If it was said at the end of the game I would have said the context of the game has nothing to do with the statement and Bongi should receive the punishment forthcoming.
@@floatpoint1050 Really don't think so: FYI 'white c**t' is not an Afrikaans expression - 'wit poes' is the equivalent if UR interested - which sounds quite different. And, Mbonambi ,being African, would be unlikely to swear in Afrikaans.
- this looks like a racial slur.
One rugby player swearing at another is not a particularly 'big deal' - but conduct rules apply equally to everyone.
@@fraserct533 My reply is based on current speculation that he said "wit kant", which if I am not mistaken is an afrikaans expression. Just type "did bongi say wit kant" in google and you will see how my comment originated. Either way, speculation is speculation and truth of what was said should eventually reveal itself.
@@floatpoint1050 Granted it is speculation at present - & as long as the conduct rules are applied to all equally that is fair.
.
The dissapointing (more like nausiating?) thing is that Stuart Barnes explicitly states that these apply differently depending on the race of the player!
- & the term for that is ... !!!?
- 🤞that he thinks better of that when he realises what he actually said.
Well, regardless, it wasn't a racist slur at all. The Boks make their calls in Afrikaans and kant (pronounced cu*t) simply means side. The replay of the moments before Curry's complaint show both sides at the breakdown and you can hear Mbongi shouting "wyd kant" (wide side) and England then do take the ball down the wide side. At best it was a genuine misunderstanding by Curry. At worst, it was gamesmanship. Fortunately the ref kept his head and didn't dish out a card based on hearsay.
Neither NZ or S.A. deserve to play in the finals. Northern Teams just had no luck .France , Ireland , and England played superbly in this world cup. For the record I'm South African , from Cape Town.
Oh I am not so sure there. SA,NZ have jumped another step up in speed, accuracy and commitment. Only teams in north hemisphere doing the same, Ireland, France. Great final looming.
Lol
🤣
guess this video is no useless hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahah
This guy is very harsh in his criticism of England
So he should be, being a former England player himself.
Mbonambi was speaking Afrikaans, he was not making any racial slur nor swearing - get over yourselves and do your research or get an Afrikaans/English dictionary
I had massive respect for the older gentleman until he said he supported the ANC. More atrocities happens under their watch at this moment than what happened under Apartheid.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@thabangaugustinehlalele 😂😂😂 I don't think you will be the last one laughing.
Listen objectively to what he said. He also did not say he supports the ANC as it is today. He was giving context to this misunderstanding about the so-called racial slur uttered by Mbonambi.
This was an interesting and refreshing interview.
South Africa were lucky to beat France, very lucky to beat England, and lost to Ireland. They are extremely lucky to have the referee they had against both France and England
I don’t think that’s a fair comment on the referee. To be honest, I thought he was very fair and to single out the game on single decision and not look at everything on the whole is not right. Early on England got the calls but ultimately they didn’t take their opportunities. It’s the same story with France, they left points out their and it cost them.
In regards to Ireland, it’s the same story. They didn’t win the one that counts.
I agree South Africa was lucky. But you need a bit of luck to win a World Cup. This has been the case from every tournament.
It's always interesting to see the quick revisionism of what were called epic games. Now, most of the 'epic' games of this WC have been revised as teams hitting lucky on ref selection. If France had beaten SA, they'd have been told they won on luck. If England had won they'd have been told they beat an exhausted SA - luck. If SA had won against Ireland they'd be told they deserved it in the end.... better side on paper. Oh that already got said plenty! These epic games don't last long in the imaginations before the cheap shots degrade 'em
Lucky to win in 2019 as well i gather? So salty...
The more you practice the luckier you get😂 Luck has nothing to do with it. It is mental superiority and attrition.
Hoping that the "luck" you are referring to continues into the final.
New Zealand will match Springboks in the scrum and even dominate. The springboks will attempt to fight back but with their major weapon nullified catch up football won't work unfortunately...nz by 9 points !! MoTM Retalick !!
Darn it ahh well better luck in 2027 for the Boks. Congratulations NZ you now have 4 world cups
@jonathandavis8599 predictable attempt at sacarsm. It was a 50/50 bet I took a shot, what gives ?!
@@paulpusal7823 It wasn't 50/50. Boks were always winning that final. They never lose WC finals, best team in the history of rugby!
Massive respect for Stuart....honest assessment on everything....hopefully he visits our country some time.....
Massive respect for Stuart....honest assessment on everything....hopefully he visits our country some time.....