Thanks for such a fun conversation! I could go on for DAYS about this stuff! We didn't even mention the secret second anointing. We need a part 2 for sure!
This was a great conversation! Really do hope you two do a collab for some of the more propaganda-esque stuff. Jake could learn the joins of General Conference, you could get to experience JW Broadcasting!
Former (post? lol) SDA for 14 years now. Randomly came across this and it was interesting to watch. I knew most of this stuff already but I like hearing people's growth stories. One thing I didn't know was soaking and thanks for that lmao. Has that always been a thing, do you know? Or is it more recent in the last decade or two?
random wondering; were you ever out 'recruiting' with two friends in troutdale quite a few years back (sorry, can't place a specific time frame)? you look similar to one of a trio of ladies that tried to do the sales pitch, but gracefully accepted my deflection.
@Jdub NoMo Paul said in Ephesians 3:15 that the names of the families of the earth exist both down here on earth and also up in heaven. but in the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints the marriages is performed only down here on earth. Malachi also gives you a hint that the Righteous shall present up a Book of Remembrance before the Lord. Malachi 3:16 it is describing the Members of the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints because they are the only ones who are compiling a book of Remembrance containing all the families of the earth before the Lord.
@Jdub NoMo The Jehovah Witnesses don't have all the truth on God, they have very little knowledge on God, I know that to be true by looking at how paper thin the watchtower and awake magazines were that they had given me in their bible visits while threatening me with hellfire if I didn't join them.. So I didn't join them, something was not right about the hostile spirit they had. You was being fed breadcrumbs instead of getting the full feast. They did not have the Lord's Banquet.. All they had was just some breadcrumbs to offer. So When I came into the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints I found where the Master is, He was in Zion all along and along with the Master, his table was laid out with all sorts of food upon it with a full spiritual feast. I also found the well of living water. I been in the church now for over 30 years so I know what is taught in the church. I'm not here to convert people, I'm just here to explain what we do believe in and teach and where it can be found in the Bible.
I grew up a jw. When I lost my teenage son to suicide, you’d be amazed at how many made me feel attacked for grieving my son because he’s going to be resurrected. It’s sickening.
I feel you. When my son completed suicide, I had Witnesses come to his funeral to tell me that I had to come back or I'd never see him again. It was the final straw for me.
❤️🩹 No parent should have to bury a child. No one has the words to heal you but they sure feel the need to dictate your god given emotions. My heart breaks for you ❤
@Jdub NoMo thank you. It’s been a journey, I’ll say that much. I’m not df’d or anything but have been accused of being an apostate, etc. Many were the most angry because I’d simply request they not make it sound so easy, to just move fwd. Like I’m not supposed to grieve his loss in the meantime. Plus it being a suicide, involves so much processing. What they also don’t take into account is that even if he were resurrected into the new world as taught, things still won’t be the same. His sisters will be older, possibly with kids of their own. I grieve this too for my daughters. He won’t have the joys of watching them grow up if his nieces & nephews are adults by the time he’s resurrected. I presented this idea to one of the last few jw friends I still have. It did make her stop & think but she’s still in, however she is much more sensitive than most to what comforts me & what doesn’t. Which is why she’s still my friend. Most others have been mutually cut off.
“You can’t swim because Satan rules the waters” was definitely a rule written by a guy that was sick of everyone making fun of him for not being able to swim 😂
That's adorable lol! Makes me think of a "not" joke.The various priests of the Roman Catholic Church, Orthodox Church, and the various Rabbis, along with the various elders, leaders and upper eschalon of all Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Bahai, and all the other "best and brightest" of all the faiths, doctors, philosopher, and learned people of the world are having a worldwide meeting to decide once and for all, which "one" is "right". A little child happens upon them all bickering amongst themselves and asks, "why don't you all just change the way you treat each other?" And all these supposedly intellectually and/or faithfully superior men turn to the child and reply with one voice, "Change?! What is this change of which you speak? 🤔"
"Everything that is unique about Mormonism is not good and everything that is good in Mormonism is not unique" That's something I've heard a lot in ex-Mormon circles. And it's very true!
It makes my blood boil when I hear Shelise tell how the bishop basically tried to claim her talent for the church. When I got accepted into a prestigious ballet academy, the bishop immediately called to tell me it was my missionary calling. I was being sent on my own unique mission for the church to spread the gospel through my talent. Good thing there was a vibrant and affirming community waiting for me that would challenge me to investigate everything in order to expand my talent, rather than tailor to fit an agenda.
Right?? I always hated that people in church always would say, "You're so lucky god gave you that gift!" with anything someone said they were good at. Immediately minimizes the work that people put into their hobbies and passions.
Such a great observation! I had never considered that so deeply. I'm happy you got to use your talent in the way YOU wanted! We are featuring this comment in my new video with altworldly releasing tomorrow. Thanks for sharing!
@@cerberaodollam don’t be an @ss hole. I had this name for 26 years before Columbine and have been on the receiving end of hateful comments for the past 25. While you may find making fun of my name witty, doing so belittles the tragedy and dishonors the victims of that and every tragic school shooting ever since. Prepare to be reported.
JW elders and people in generally also try to dissuade young people (Men and women) from pursuing a career and instead try to push people into missionary work...
My mom became a JW when I was about 5 years old. It's my belief that they pounced on her as she was going through a lot then with both my dad and I being seriously ill (near fatal heart attack for him, to-this-day unknown immune issues for me) and my brother being the sociopath he was. I was dragged to the meetings and at 13 and I said I didn't want to go anymore (I'd begun to seriously question a LOT of their teaching) but my father, who was atheist, said it was either the JW's or the Catholic church. I chose to stay with the JW's since I knew how to work around them. When my dad passed when I was 16, I told my mom that I wasn't going to go anymore and that legally she couldn't make me go. 24 hours later I come home from school and there were 4 elders there that "just wanted to talk". They then proceeded to try to brow beat me for 5 hours throwing out comments like I must hate my parents because by leaving I was proving that I didn't want to see them/be with them in paradise, that I was hurting my mom and being ungrateful, it went on and on. I remained steadfast and refused to budge and finally told them that I was done talking to them and if they tried to corner me again with their BS, I would go to the police and tell them I was being stalked and harassed by them. I then asked them who they thought the police would believe; me, a young teenage girl who recently lost her father or some creepy old guys part of a weird religion that were trying to force me into said religion. They never bothered me again. JW's are a cult and nobody will ever convince me different. I'm quite happy being Pagan and have been Pagan for 35 years.
I didn’t grow up jw or lds but very conservative Christian, and when I got married, I cried the whole time on my honeymoon because I had so much shame about sex, that honestly is kind of a struggle to this day
I wasn't raised particularly religious, but that whole purity culture was so pervasive to my generation where I grew up, it didn't matter. I too still have shame. I felt tainted from the time I first recognized I had been abused, and still do to this day. My brain cannot reconcile the same act being shameful without a ring on your finger and perfectly fine with one. I have come to an age where celibacy is reasonable, and I embrace it; it's just easier.
I was a JW my ex husband beat me and the elders did not want to recognize my divorce because it wasn't on the grounds of adultery. I was not allowed to date. I was a regular Pioneer. I started having issues with that then with the Elders disfellowshipping a single mother for being caught smoking cigarettes. I ended up getting disfellowshipped for dating a ministerial servant and we got married. They still didn't want to recognize my divorce. Well I was emotionally vulnerable a week later and 2 Mormon missionaries showed up, we joined the Mormon church because it sounded like it made sense, the whole emotional pull of families are forever. We kept going to the temple and it wasn't making sense and then when I had uterine cancer and couldn't have children and the whole well you were just meant to have children in the spirit world started upsetting me. Then sitting in the Celestial room the scripture of Jesus chastising the disciples for forbidding the children from entering His presence. Then the scripture where Jesus got mad at the money changers at the temple. It dawned on me, if this was the true church and the Celestial room was the presence of God, why were we forbidding people from being in His presence? Then if people have to pay tithing to be there aren't we charging for ordinances in the temple which is just as bad as the money changers? I was done!
When she says "you can become a god" and "when you're 12, you have the priesthood" there should be a disclaimer: "Offer does not apply to all genders" (Also I guess they can add "Now available for black men!" as that was not always the case.) Edit: One nice thing about Mormon theology that is unique: Almost everyone goes to Heaven, Mormon or not. You go to the *lowest* Heaven, the Telestial Kingdom, but you have to be especially awful to be sent to Hell (aka "Perdition"). I am not Mormon, but I do have a number of Mormon friends.who occasionally try to convert me.
I remember getting so upset when I'd see JWs as a Mormon missionary. We'd talk trash about you guys all the time! Now, watching an exJW talk about his experiences, I feel like you guys are 100% my people! You get it, and I'll hang out with y'all anytime! We're all basically blood brothers (no pun intended).
Yep I was taking care of my mom after a stroke, I had 2 small children and I made 10.93 an hour and I tithed faithfully because I believed things would get worse if I didn’t and better if I did. When my mom died, they wanted to charge me to have her funeral at the church. I passed and just used the funeral home. But after all the tithes and service to this church, I was heartbroken. It woke me up.
That is very upsetting. When I started to read the Bible for myself...I realized the first generation church is the book of Acts was a church centered in giving and meeting the needs of others. Then I hear stories like this where rather than the church giving to those in need...they take and take from those in need. It is the complete opposite of what should be happening. It is nothing short of demonic.
Wow, that is heartbreaking. If I was God I would be dead by now seeing and feeling all the suffering. I'm so amazed that God is still alive and well, bearing our pain with us.
I went to catholic school and they gave us a similar lesson to the cupcake one. They gave us a piece of tape and asked us to stick it to our arm, then remove it and stick it to someone else, again and again, until it wouldn’t stick anymore… the lesson was that the more sexual partners you have, the harder it becomes to create a real bond with a partner to marry… until you can’t
Of course that's not actually true and isn't back up by any research but it seems slightly less harmful than the "if you have sex before marriage you will become like trash and no one will want you" that they said at mormon church in the 90s.
Religion often ignores the fact that there's an ocean of possibilities between having hundreds of partners and waiting until marriage. They ignore the fact you're not a piece of tape for example, and that the sentiment that link you to a person you just want to have a one night stand with it's not the same sentiment you feel for someone you're in love with, or the fact you can have standards even if you don't want something serious at the moment, and that you might want something serious later. Everything is awfully simplicistic when it's convenient
I grew up a JW and I must admit that I’ve never been more unhappy than when I was apart of that cult. Child development is never talked about and for me it was hard. I know I have a mild level of social anxiety because of being told that I couldn’t talk or play with other children that don’t share my “faith”. I would have to be the odd man out and watch other kids have fun during classroom birthday parties and holidays. I ended up learning how to creat a totally different person by the time I started high school when not around family or other JW. I became deeply ashamed of myself and a good liar because of that. I never got to enjoy my weekends because field service took priority. I also have a cousin who had a complete mental breakdown because everything she did was “too good for her” and the last straw was that her new car that she worked so hard to buy(a Toyota) was “too new and she didn’t need all that”. At this point in my life I feel disgusted and traumatized when ever I drive pass a Kingdom Hall or see people out in field service. I hope more open their eyes to what this cult is and confront Bethel on all this crap.
It took me a couple decades after not being a Witness that I could pass a Kingdom Hall and not curse its existence, so yeah, I feel you there. But there is light there, you will eventually get past that hurt and reaction. But the response when you see others out "in service" there are definitely ways to speak to them to try to encourage them to leave. Again, I had time when I was very aggressive and just told JWs to get lost, but now, I ask them questions, about the revisions to the doctrine, about the books and tracts that aren't biblical, about why (relevant to this video) that Jehovah's Witnesses in service weren't actually of service like the Mormons, that kind of thing. I ask them what works, what skills, the faith teaches to make them diligent stewards of the Garden once they get there, because the Witnesses don't do any of that! There's no "paradise prep" like, if only Witnesses survive Armageddon, and all you've been taught is converting non-believers, what are you going to do in Paradise? Can you garden, can you tend animals, do you have any skills or instincts that teach you to help other people or create something? Those in the faith get so hung up on "the end is near" that they never even think to ask so what if we're right, and we're faithful, what then?" Yhe Witnesses don't practice being good to people, they don't practice being good to the earth, or the animals we share it with and that was Jehovah's default setting for Adam... why aren't they teaching those skills? Encouraging those social activities to practice good works. Hit them with things they can't really refute because church doctrine has drown out rational forethought. Help them get skeptical and it will help heal the damage that's been done to you. Good luck on your healing journey.
Sorry that you had such a bad experience. When I was growing up and even when I became an adult I always wanted to have JW friends because I wanted to know what life was like on that side. However, it wasn't allowed for those children. When I became a young adult I began going to JW homes to see if they would study with me. However, when they found out I could not believe all they taught and could not answer my questions to my satisfaction, the relationships ended. I really love those people and Mormons also are so friendly and forgiving...at least to me they were. There were a few exceptions of JWs who would continue to welcome me when I came to their door. However, I could see over time that they were not open minded to consider deeper revelation than they were taught, so those relationships did not develop very far. I'm still open to discussing the Bible and other conversation with them as I believe Jesus taught us to be willing to minister to anyone who, in His eyes, has a need. And that need can be just about anything.
I had mental illness from birth but growing up jw didn't help at all. Now I'm 46 and trying to start over. It's hard to not be angry but I try. It's good to hear stories that resonate and yours definitely does. Thank you!
The bit at 31:03 is so validating because from the congregation, when a JW leaves and is dealing with mental health issues, that only validates the people who stay because they aren't dealing with mental health issues themselves. They can't see that it's only when you leave that you realize just how damaging it was to stay, and are ready to decompartmentalize the mental issues we never allowed ourselves to feel weren't normal.
And if you leave you are mentally diseased. So if you do deal with mental health issues its because Satan is playing with you and your issues will disappear if you go back to the religion
JWs have an above per Capita incidence of mental illness. There have been studies done on it. Was at a dinner party once & 4 of the 6 adults were on antidepressants. That's what you get when you hold up an unobtainable goal.
Flowers singing in heaven made my heart smile. I don't believe in a God or heaven or hell. But if I did, I would like my heaven to have singing flowers. That is just such a wholesome thing
even though i haven't set a foot in a kingdom hall in years, having been raised in the religion has had such a tremendous grip on my worldview, and it's through videos like these that i'm able to put everything in perspective and realize other people have been told the same things while thinking they're the ones with the "truth". thank you so much for the video, would love a part 2 :)
I got raised Jehovah Witness into adulthood, left my family,- disowned of course - and then ended up wed with a Mormon for the last 15 years - not practicing any religion under our roof. That discussion was really great to watch, did bring a lot of points that weren't clear for both of us and explained some issues we faced. Thank you for taking the time to upload this!
This is a huge eye opener! Im a gay ex-Jw and my boyfriend is a (kinda?) ex Mormon. His father committed ss and when I tell him its ok to mourn he just tells me "its fine". in fact he tells me ALL the time that things are "Fine" and I cant stand it. when anything is wrong with me, he is front row and center there to help me out but when i go to help him its just "fine" and he wont open up.
He’s your boyfriend. You don’t have to stay with him if you’re dissatisfied with any aspect of him, whether it’s his emotional openness or anything else. If something drives you crazy, just know that it’s ok to move on. Are you struggling with fear of the unknown if you were to break up with him? I say this because I’ve seen so many exJWs connect romantically with other cult survivors (especially their fellow exJWs, but also exmos, etc), thinking that no one else will “get” them. Oftentimes, trauma-binding and cult-instilled insecurities will keep us in these relationships that really shouldn’t be happening in the first place. Not saying that’s what you’re dealing with, just offering the observation. I’m an exJW, by the way. You deserve happiness and a partner that satisfies you on all levels. I wish you all the best, no matter what your circumstances are! ❤️
People process things differently. He may actually be fine working through stuff on his own. Not everybody needs to hear words of encouragement after a major loss.
Depending on how long you’ve been together, he may need and deserve more time to open up. Let him know you’re there without judgment. Some people need more time. I’m not an ex-JW or ex-Mormon, but I appreciated my now husband giving me time to open up about trauma and sa. It may be a specific situation that occurs between people recovering from these religions, so get more advice than just mine.
I converted to the Mormon church and went through the temple. I quit when, after my divorce, I was pregnant with my second child and had a 4 year old daughter. I was given $100 for food stamps to feed both myself and my daughter for the month. I was tithing 10% of my welfare money which was $495 per month for rent and utilities. I went to my church and interviewed with the bishop for food assistance. He turned around behind his big mohagony desk, pulled out a big we ring binder and said the church couldn't help me because I was on welfare. 2 weeks later I quit and asked them to take my name off of the rolls of the church. I've never been back.
No idea why youtube recommended this video in my algorithm but I watched the whole thing and found it very interesting. Thanks to both of you for sharing.
Excellent conversation! I'm a current LDS member, but I'm always open to hearing why people have left, and comparing how differently members are treated all across the board. I've personally had some bad experiences with a lot of church leaders and members I've had in the past, including being judged for career choices, habits, sense of style plus other things entirely out of line and disrespectful. Thank you both for sharing your experiences with religion!
rare Mormon w, I appreciate your openness and not immediately shutting down ex-mo experiences, especially in none of the tiresome and repetitive ways that I've heard throughout my life.
My leaving had very little to do with the current organization of the Mormon church. I find that it has a very strong community structure and is overall a positive influence on values. However, none of that changes how I feel about the objective truth of the claims Smith made.
Not trying to be rude and this definitely isn’t mean or an attack on you, but my experience is this is type of comment is more about helping you feel better about your beliefs in Mormonism. Some people it’s a smugness, others it’s a “if they only knew the capital ‘T’ truth!”, but I don’t think you are honestly open to hear others why. You believe in Mormonism and that’s your belief. A person’s epistemology and belief systems have a lot that go into it such familial ties, parents beliefs, community, confirmation biases, psychology, physiology in the brain like endorphins, needing to be accepted, strength in numbers despite doubt, etc, etc so it’s not like I don’t get why people have their beliefs. And people are excellent at holding on to said beliefs despite conflicting information. We know the Book of Mormon didn’t happen through historical knowledge, ethnolinguistics, genetics, metallurgy, zoology and taxonomy, agriculture, environmental studies, geology, etc, etc. Plus there’s the conflicting accounts from Joseph Smith himself, the convictions of Joseph Smith because of defrauding people, his own mother saying he loved to tell outrageous stories as a child, similar books that were produced at the time, etc, etc. So to me, with all we have learned about Mormonism, it falls apart. But you still believe which I infer that you’re making a positive claim that Mormonism is true. So instead of explaining why a person is no longer a Mormon (and there are a dozen plus denominations), my question is; why do still believe? I’m very open to hear why you are a member of a Mormon church.
Wow. I grew up going to a Baptist church and then continuing in a non denomination church in my 20s and 30s. When I lost a child, it was just like the Mormon church. As a Christian, I still had to show I was the perfect mom for my other two kids. I was told God needed her. She will never experience worldly pain, etc. When I lost my mom, I had to appear at peace and fine even though I lost my voice for 2 weeks. Toxic positivity.
I grew up in the baptist church. In my early 20s I found gnostic christianity and paganism. The most freedom I ever felt was walking away from the “truth” and finding actual spiritual truth on my own instead of from a group of people who didn’t truly care about me. Toxic positivity is so real there… “it’s in god’s plan” “he’s gonna take care of you.” No, what happened by the loss of a loved one is horrible, and a god who planned and plotted that demise is cruel. There’s so much actual spiritual truth that is warped by the church. Protestant Christianity doesn’t even recognize the books from the Nag Hammadi library. They picked and chose their scriptures instead of doing work to find out what’s true and teach people with love. I am so sorry you had this experience. You are not alone. My grief was warped and used against me when I miscarried my son at 4 months pregnant, and at 7 months my daughter was born still. You are worthy, you are loved, you are not alone, and there is still spiritual truth to be found outside of the cults we grew up in. Peace and love to you, dear. Namaste
I feel like people just don't know what to say. They want to make you feel better. They don't want you to be in pain because it hurts them to see you in pain. What should they say? I feel like I wouldn't say the right things either.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Perhaps. I went looking for answers after I was assaulted at 7. I wanted to know why God would allow this to happen. I went to church by myself and would often go to different churches. I just ended up in the choir. Maybe they aren’t equipped to handle things like this. However, maybe they need to be or can at least offer resource since they are serving the communities they are in and that tithe there.
Awesome video! I began to wake up from the JW's (Jehovah's Witness) by reading about Mormons and watching videos entitled.."I was a Mormon". Then John Dehlin's excommunication was broadcast on television. I started following him and I noticed a ton of similarities between the JW's and the Mormons. This was an eye-opener for me!! After that I got the courage to go to CZcams and look up.. "Why do people leave the Jehovah's Witnesses faith"...that's when I really started waking up! I became obsessed listening to all ExJW stories on CZcams and the FEAR of the "so called" apostates that we are taught to detest started to become a different reality, they are just people telling their experiences when they were an active JW and why they left. So all the stigma started to dwindle. Then I branched out and started looking into Seventh Day Adventist, Scientology, Christadelphians, The Brethren, Christian Science. I started noticing the parallels between all the religions, and it runs deep...no questioning, no doubting and everything comes from the top down. The rank-and-file are just the followers with no personal self, no individuality. After you wake up and start seeing these things it can take a toll on you, especially if this is the only thing you have known all of your life. Therapy is definitely a must when waking up! I can now honestly say that life is better on the outside! 💯
I learned so much from cults, day after day, every time I listen to the cult stories. The very second one I ever met, Jehovah’s Witnesses, I never enjoyed their so called teaching, which of course in fact propaganda and toxic indoctrinations, but after I looked back, they really taught me so much, and in fact now I realize not only I was born in one giant cult-ruling country makes up about 1/5 of human populations on earth, the people republic of China, but also realize that cult is nowhere far from any of us, but in fact, the entire span human history is the history of cults. We are in fact in the abnormal period of time in human history which we can recognize cults and set ourselves free from.
@@garymeredith488 If you are Witness, I'm surprised that you are commenting/viewing this video. Good for you, I encourage that. Critical thinking is so needed (I consider myself a post JW).
As an exvangelical, I am always amazed at just how much I have in common with exJWs and exMormons. So much of the same trama and abuse is present in all of the more "conservative" brands of Christianity. Thank y'all for sharing! 🫶
Fantastic video, you two! I am never forgetting that quote: Everything good about it is not unique, and everything that makes it unique is not necessarily good.
In my experience, abuse of power and especially sexual abuse is a common theme in EVERY religion. Teaching children to believe things without proof, and at the same time forbid them to question ANYTHING, makes them the perfect victim for a predator! But all that is easy for me to see, since I was born as atheist and never felt the need for a religion in my life.
@mrtrillbe apostate actually doesn't mean "runaway slave" It means to "stand apart" as in revolt. You can look it up in lexicon and write to religious studies professors. Runaway slave doesn't capture the tone of the word apostate. It conveys the idea of someone in open revolt.
@@kylekataryn3454 actually the Greeks refured to an escaped slave as an apostate because It meant "I revolt" the only reason it's used in a religious sense is because the people who originally translated the bible read and wrote Greek because the Romans thought it made them look clever, the use of a now religious term, in one of its original secular uses is called irony
i started watching videos from a ex mormon lady some days ago and thought "oh my, that reminds me in the basics of jw". seeing these video made me look up ex jw videos. i am an ex jw since 17 years and to watch these videos brought up so much trauma again. it feels bad, but it helps me a lot. it wasnt me, i was not wrong and i am not guilty. traumas and conditioning was used on me by people i trusted the most - my family, my parents - since i was born. realizing that most of my traumas resulted from being in this organization doesnt make it better, but at least i know now where it comes from and thats the start of healing. thank you for your videos
Hearing the horrific truth about missions breaks my heart. I remember sitting in church and being so proud of and excited for the you g men going out, and so impressed with those coming back. I remember missionaries almost always lost tons of weight on the mission, it was a widely known thing. Everyone just said it was cuz they were walking/riding their bikes all day, no one said it's bc they're being actively starved!
Reading about Joseph Smith and the start of the LDS church was the final straw in my voyage to atheism because I realized how easy it is to start a religion and get people to believe complete BS.
I’m 75, long line of family were JW’s. Most dead now and most thought they would NEVER die. My question for someone out there is this : How do you rationalize the fact that your Parents and Grandparents believed the whole nine yards ALL their lives? I always thought my Dad was soooo intelligent but after I realized ‘it’s not THE TRUTH’ I have a hard time figuring how he believed it till his end. 🙄
I think it just goes to show how indoctrinated and 'brain washed' people can be. As a former JW I can understand this. When your whole life is intertwined with people with the same belief system, it can rock your world if that vanishes. And JW's won't really allow association or at the very least frown down upon hanging out with people that are inactive or of course disfellowshipped.
I know a lot of very intelligent Mormons . Well educated . I was educated and yet I believed . People have a amazing capability to compartmentalize beliefs in tiny boxes in our brains and we all create our own private version of the religion that is comfortable for us. Once I stopped privileging Church doctrine it was all over for me.
Ego and pride bring shame upon certain people that won't let themselves admit the truth even if they know it's the truth. Rather than honor the conviction and recognize what's being revealed to them they'd rather go to the grave dealing with what is perceived to them as condemnation of then being wrong vs conviction.
Growing up, our parents are the source of everything we know, or of everything that is 'true'. They have all the answers, and have my best interest at heart. Then at some point (usually as a teen or an adult) you realize they're just people. Flawed people stumbling through life, same as you. Prone to their biases, and can fall for lies and manipulation no matter how smart they are or think they are. It's disappointing for sure, frustrating even.
@@Irishxlily Unless one or more parents/ guardians are narcissists which have the emotional intelligence of a 2 year old at best. Therefore the child recognizes the ignorance of their guardians much earlier, about age 4+. Narcissists see their children as mini versions of themselves and don't understand that this child(ren) is an individual and has their own thoughts, likes, dislikes, and in most cases is way more intelligent scholastically and emotionally than the guardian.
Grew up LDS too. We didn't use a "licked cupcake" in our ward but my leaders used a "chewed gum" analogy. I'm 32 and it still randomly pops up in my head. Even after being out for 12 years.
I grew up Jw as well. One of my best friends in grade school had just moved from Utah to Canada with his parents at 13 siblings. I was surprised by some of the similarities and big differences. His mom really liked me because she knew I was Jw and said I had "values"
This was so interesting. I was a 4th generation JW & lived in a neighborhood full of Mormons. We had MANY conversations. They always said that I was Mormon & just didn’t know it yet.. LOL! Tried to do their best to convert me. No thanks. So many similarities to JW’s & yet so different.
Wow this was great! I had no idea about either religion/cult. I love learning new things! This podcast taught me a lot. You two are so young and so wise! Great show. Thank you so much.
I left being a Witness after 20 years, and became a Mormon. The similarities were comfortable, but the differences never felt right to me. Eventually I left that too. I'd just got signed off on my temple recommend when I realised I couldn't go through with it. The cost of the garments alone put me off.
That toxic positivity where you can’t grieve for a child or a loved one who died is very parallel to witnesses , it’s the same carrot they hold over your head. Oh if you want to see them again you have to do all these things, go in service, be a perfect witness Yada Yada.
Fantastic interview. I befriended a Ex-mormon guy about 15 years ago (I'm an Ex-JW). We'd have epic conversations about our bizzare childhoods. We could really relate to eachother, despite all of the differences. It was interesting to hear things from the female perspective from Shelise.
I grew up and baptized as a JW, and the mom example you gave about she having to take care ok the kids being ready and also making food and cleaning and getting herself ready, the husband doing nothing and then pretending to be peaceful and great at meetings 5 min later after all the stress... my mom lived that every week and it was very visible for me
Shout out from Portland Oregon! I’m not an ex-religious person but the opposite. I’m an ex addict who committed countless sins for many years. I’m happy to report that I’m now a follower of Jesus. 🙌 Thank you for sharing your experience. I find it all fascinating!!
As a postmo who's listened to many episodes of MSP, MD, ZotS, Nemo, and Telltale, this was a refreshing change of pace and I thoroughly enjoyed it! I'm going to have to give both of y'all's channels a look
great discussion here I dealt with being in the mormon church up to when I was 16 through social avoidance and thought repression, it’s a lot to unpack even after 3 years out. thanks for taking the time to talk about it, it is helpful to think about!
I live in a conservative area of my city full of mormons, evangelicals, pentecostals and JWs (me being raised catholic) so learning about the differences is very interesting. To me they all blend into one traditionalist, fundamentalist blob of people surrounding my house which is just a lil' scary as a gay dude.
Haven’t finished the video yet but I’m glad you guys touched on the nontrinitarianism thing, I was surprised to find out the LDS perspective on that because I grew up thinking JWs were the only ones who believed jeebus and god are separate
I am a former Jehovah’s Witness but I still don’t believe the trinity makes any sense how can you be a father and son and the Holy Ghost how can you send yourself to earth to die for mankind. That part still doesn’t make any sense to me. I think all religions are baloney
@16:45 If she wasn't an ExMormon I would have sworn that our guest host was a former Bethelite, because that sounds JUST like the JW Bethel Talk for sisters... like word for word.
So the mormon church is a business. A ranch is also a business. If you look at women as though they are cows it makes sense to get them married and pregnant so they can make more tithing payers. The boys can't make more so they send them out to find more tithing payers. When you look at the church in a different light it all starts to make more sense.
My parents and I converted when I was in a midteens. It wasn’t until they told me my stillborn niece was in purgatory is when things started to make since then having to talk to my bishop about “my gay thoughts” after that conversation i stepped away and haven’t looked back. It’s interesting seeing others who have same experiences. Didn’t know LDS and Witnesses were so similar.
Polygamy is still an issue in Utah. I was driving home from work the other day and say a billboard that said "trying to escape polygamy?" Then it gave a holiness number, so it's bad enough that there's an actual holiness for it.
I know a non-mormon lady who got married. She ended up finding out through church records that the man she married was already married and had a family.
I was born and raised JW and thought I had it bad, but between the money thing and the interviews with the bishop seems so much worse treatment. Thanks for the perspective.
As a non-Mormon who experienced LDS culture both in and out of Utah, Utah Mormonism is a whole different beast. Utah Mormons had an invisible switch that instantly turned them from mostly super kind, friendly people to mindless zombies.
Same with Idaho! Especially in eastern idaho, they are some culty, sick, demented, doomsday zombies over there. They have infiltrated our legislature, government, schools, healthcare, law, construction, farming, manufacturing. I hate them with a vengeance.
I was a born in JW. Fucked up my entire life. My mother and father were both child molesters and my father beat me almost every day. I’m 58 now with high blood pressure and 2 brain aneurysms. But I’m glad to finally be free. Been out for 15 years.
@@dawnr6381 yes for sure but Jehovah’s Witnesses are notoriously famous for child molesters. There is a “ two witness rule that protects them. 2 people have to witness the abuse before anything will be done. Not many child molesters will let that happen. Look up JW’s Australian Royal commission.
Had a JW friend stay with me a few years ago. (it was OK he said because I saved him the price of a hotel room so it was business, yes, he really did said that) Anyway, he would give me the JW spiel once or twice a day so that helped justify staying with a heathen too. One day a nicely dressed couple was walking up my driveway carrying what looked to be Bibles. My friend smiled as said "A brother and sister are here, now we will really go to work on you"! Halfway down the driveway his smile disappear, "our people don't wear name tags" he tersely said! My friend and the Mormon couple remained civil to each other for about 30 seconds before they they were accusing each other of being in league with the Devil. I told them that there would be no war of religion on my property and to take it out to the street, Religion turns normal people into lunatics'.
This was a very interesting conversation. I grew up in the Christian (baptist) religion. My eyes and mind were opened around the age of 18. I’ve been non-religious atheist since. It was the best feeling in the world. I’m 37 now and always just lived my life without thinking of religion anymore but recently I’ve been diving into likeminded people. Hitchens, Stephen fry, Sam harris and so on. As long as people who believe they have a moral high ground because of some religion and they want to control society I’m going to at least be better educated and know how to somewhat fight back. Religion poisons so many things. I’m glad to see people get away from religion and start to heal.
We have a pretty large JW community on my north-german island. Being a very atheistic region to begin with, they were basically the only religious people I had contact with until I went to the military. I realised they were cultish when one family of a classmate left JW. Another family to this day do not speak with them anymore and they were super close. The mom of the family that left is so cheerful and just radiant nowadays. Remember her being suuuuper grouchy back when they were still in JW. Personal gripe: Met a girl after 15 years again who I went to elementary school with. We instantly just clicked like crazy and talked for 2 hours in the cold at a trainstation. Then all of a sudden she goes: “This is great. You are great. But you aren’t JW so I have to stop this.” Asked her if this is more important than her happiness and future. “Yes my community would hate me.” They are a cult 100%.
David Fitzgerald has a great book on the history of the Mormons. He's going to be writing one on the JWS, not sure when it will be completed but I will let you know Jake! His book is so good and he gets into the nitty gritty of his life.
Zoe knox recently published a book on JWs "Jehivahs witnesses and ilthe secular world" Shes a Russian literary scholar and noted universally in soviet literature theyre spoken of negatively. Thst caught her attention, so she began researching them, surprised to find very few scholars have written anything on them in decades
At 30:59, you guys mentioned how growing up you don't notice these issues and it's not until you look back on it that it becomes clear what happened. That resonates hard with me, having grown up in a "non-denominational" Christian church (which turns out, was just Evangelical btw, haha). There's innumerable examples of times where I've looked back on how that affected me; especially since I've grown to realize how much I repressed myself for being gay.
As for the death thing, raised at the JW, I was always told that our day of death is better than our day of birth as now we have proven ourselves to Jehovah. Also, just recently I saw a governing body member talk about a new baby and he said :usually people will say “look at that little angel“ when they really should be saying “look at that enemy of Jehovah“ 😮😮😮I’m not making this shit up.
Protest Protest Protest. October 31st 2023 in Washington DC at the white house. Everyone in high controlled groups or have left are encouraged to attend the Protest for change. The protest is permitted and APPROVED. THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO BE MADE AWARE OF THE DANGEROUS RULES AND POLICIES THAT ARE HARMING MEMBERS. AND INFRINGING ON THE FREEDOM & RIGHTS OF THE MEMBERS.
It's interesting how a few times she was discussing something as "everyone gets [priesthood/a planet/etc.]" then later qualified that "everyone" meant "just men."
Thank you Shelise and Jake! So much shame... We all probably were slapped as babies when our hands went down there, but how would we know now. Owning a planet: I was told maybe God would give me an hubby our own planet some day... by a former CO. Also, overheard people talking about that out in service. They would come to that conclusion because someday the earth would be full, why not fill the rest of the planets in the universe? As with so many JW urban legends that continue for decades, the leadership was a.o.k. with this rumor, otherwise they would squash it. Maybe one of them started it, who knows.
@governing body language There was a governing body member who ised to be very hostile to the idea of space travel in the 30s - 40s. He had written something like the envelope thwt surrounds the earth is impenetrable. Looking back just decades prior to the 50s is revelatory. At one time they taught that aluminum cookware was demonic.
It was in the literature. Sometime in either the late 80's or 90's there was an emerald green book published that advanced that thought. That someday JWs would have the opportunity to populate other planets.
@@nobodysbaby5048 Yeah. and yes. I started researching in 2015 and am finally starting to become an ex ex-jw. whew. I usually tell others about these things! But, thanks!!! I hate what facts like that would do to my nervous system... for days! But, they are inoculation from the cult. Thankfully, it only happens about once a year now, but they still have more in their graveyard of facts. It's so bad.
Speaking on toxic positivity. We had an elder give a talk and proudly say that about an hour or two after finding out his mother passed away he held an elders meeting. He had some reasoning about it but I was so shocked and shocked that the people around me weren’t shocked.😬
@@Hbd2002 Nope. If you can walk away without repercussions and keep in contact with your family, who still believe, without shaming you for your choice, then it is not a cult. Cults can only exist in a state, where the choice to not be in one is robbing you of literally everything. The problem is, that no matter what religion, some fanatic is going to try and base a cult upon it. Fatanics love religion, as they can do horrendous things by claiming God wanted them to do it and so it must be just. I may be religious, but I'm by no means blinded to how something that should be good can be twisted by a twisted mind.
I'm watching and listening...I am not a Mormon or really any religion...common sense just tells ME...all of them, want you to be fearful !!! How sad is that ??!! NEW RULES : don't think, don't act, don't speak..just do what we want you to do... OH...and we want all of your money
So you know Mormonism is the true church because of a feeling but if you get that feeling with anything else it's Satan trying to trick you. But you can trust that feeling with the Mormon church because it's the true church. That's circular reasoning.
That's not correct, for Jesus taught the truth that the Spirit is felt when the Spirit descends down upon us.. See Luke Chapter 22::32 If you could not feel the Spirit then you cannot experience joy nor happiness or warmth, or peace. The Burning of the bossom by the Spirit as described by latter-day saints is Bible Doctrine. That is how God speaks with a still small voice through the Spirit that penetrates through all things.
haha! laughed out loud! Great suggestion! I am actually writing a book, but have a title already ;) I will definitely consider adding that scene into the book though!
Taking real estate away from people (planets, continents, etc.) is a common religious practice (ex., Crusades, conquest of indigenous peoples, wars). Thanks for this episode.
I had the exact same type of Bishop interview. I was maybe 15 years old when the Bishop was asking me if I had done explicit things with my non member boyfriend (we didn’t do anything because I was a shy little LDS girl). It was absolutely disgusting, especially because they didn’t believe me. After that traumatic experience, I felt shunned by the leaders in my branch and started going less. It was even worse when I showed people my promise ring at 17 and told everyone I’d get married to a non member. So we got married right when we were both 18 and moved to his home state. I never went back to the church again. Now I practice normal Christianity but it’s purely personal. I no longer go to a church to practice my religion
When my Grandad died and somebody told me (while I was crying) that it was totally fine because of the Plan of Salvation. I very much felt like yelling and cussing at them, people can believe whatever they want and still be really upset! The modesty aspect really messed me up and added to my body issues.
Thank you so much for this conversation. I've never been a Mormon although I did study with the missionaries for an extended period of time. I never converted. However my sister is a JW and has been for many years. She's totally convinced that what the Witnesses teach is the absolute truth. She had huge arguments with our mom and dad about her religion and she argued with me about it as well. I still don't get it but this conversation gave me a small understanding of the indoctrination.
I was a Mormon convert but left the church when we going to a vote in my country to allow gay marriage. My Bishop sent an email to the congregation and demanded that we vote against gay marriage. That infuriated me because I take MY RIGHT to vote very seriously and no one should demand that I vote a particular way. From that point we no longer attended anything to do with the LDS church.
I love JWs... to troll Now I myself am a Christian(baptized Catholic but not limited to the Catholic doctrine) and what I used to do when they rang my door was actually to let them in, and hear me out here. I would let them do their talk but then I do my talk about MY view on religion and they hated it as it was clear that I could not be converted. It was like "No don't leave yet, have some more coffee and let's talk about *insert controversial biblical subject*". Basically keeping them here for as long as possible because for every minute I did, one of my neighbors did not have to deal with them and that hurts their numbers ;) Needless to say I am on their blacklist and haven't had them ring my doorbell for years.
In the 1970s, I had some friends who were 'recovering' Catholics. I wasn't born/raised in the 3 Abrahamic faiths. I thought that identification as 'recovering' was profound. Anyway ... it's good we're chatting about these issues. Having lived in over 30 cultures, I've learned there are Great Truths 1. We are ALL one humanity. We all blink, cough, and can tighten up our muscles. Any woman can get pregnant by any man. Any child can be brought up in any culture, religion, language, or part of the world. We use Distorted Mind Beliefs to deny and suppress this Truth and see ‘Us’ and ‘Other’. 2. We are ALL born naked. Every Woman knows this. We are made to feel shame or unsafe due to Distorted Mind Beliefs and denied the Truth 3. We are ALL born equal because the sun shines on each of us. Distorted Mind Beliefs deny and suppress this Truth. 4. We ALL live on one planet shared with the Commons (Waters, Airs, Soils), All Species, and Each Other. We use Distorted Mind Beliefs as a reason to kill one another, The Commons, and Species. 5. Women carry and birth the Future Generation of Women and Men 6. Women are the First Teachers to the Future Generation of Women and Men 7. When Women do NOT teach the Great Truths, then Women teach Distorted Mind Beliefs.
When I was a kid, in a Mormon house hold. My sister and I would joke that we would die, not bad enough to go to hell so we'd go to ghetto heaven, there's heavenly levels in Mormon doctrine, haha, I was a very young nonbeliever of theology. I was a full fledged atheist by 12. When I was 8 I was baptized, I was crying because I didn't want to be, but the church and my mom spun it as "she's moved by the spirit", wrong! I dipped my toes in many, many religions, fringe beliefs, and various paganism and ultimately found that just being a good human is good enough for me.
Thanks for such a fun conversation! I could go on for DAYS about this stuff! We didn't even mention the secret second anointing. We need a part 2 for sure!
This was a great conversation! Really do hope you two do a collab for some of the more propaganda-esque stuff. Jake could learn the joins of General Conference, you could get to experience JW Broadcasting!
Former (post? lol) SDA for 14 years now. Randomly came across this and it was interesting to watch. I knew most of this stuff already but I like hearing people's growth stories. One thing I didn't know was soaking and thanks for that lmao. Has that always been a thing, do you know? Or is it more recent in the last decade or two?
random wondering; were you ever out 'recruiting' with two friends in troutdale quite a few years back (sorry, can't place a specific time frame)? you look similar to one of a trio of ladies that tried to do the sales pitch, but gracefully accepted my deflection.
@Jdub NoMo Paul said in Ephesians 3:15 that the names of the families of the earth exist both down here on earth and also up in heaven. but in the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints the marriages is performed only down here on earth.
Malachi also gives you a hint that the Righteous shall present up a Book of Remembrance before the Lord. Malachi 3:16
it is describing the Members of the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints because they are the only ones who are compiling
a book of Remembrance containing all the families of the earth before the Lord.
@Jdub NoMo The Jehovah Witnesses don't have all the truth on God, they have very little knowledge on God, I know that to be true by looking at how paper thin the watchtower and awake magazines were that they had given me in their bible visits while threatening me with hellfire if I didn't join them.. So I didn't join them, something was not right about the hostile spirit they had.
You was being fed breadcrumbs instead of getting the full feast. They did not have the Lord's Banquet.. All they had was just some breadcrumbs to offer. So When I came into the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints I found where the Master is, He was in Zion all along and along with the Master, his table was laid out with all sorts of food upon it with a full spiritual feast. I also found the well of living water.
I been in the church now for over 30 years so I know what is taught in the church. I'm not here to convert people, I'm just here to explain what we do believe in and teach and where it can be found in the Bible.
I grew up a jw. When I lost my teenage son to suicide, you’d be amazed at how many made me feel attacked for grieving my son because he’s going to be resurrected. It’s sickening.
I am so sorry, I can't imagine what its like to go through something that horrible. Sending much love and hugs.
I feel you. When my son completed suicide, I had Witnesses come to his funeral to tell me that I had to come back or I'd never see him again. It was the final straw for me.
❤️🩹 No parent should have to bury a child. No one has the words to heal you but they sure feel the need to dictate your god given emotions. My heart breaks for you ❤
@Jdub NoMo thank you. It’s been a journey, I’ll say that much. I’m not df’d or anything but have been accused of being an apostate, etc. Many were the most angry because I’d simply request they not make it sound so easy, to just move fwd. Like I’m not supposed to grieve his loss in the meantime. Plus it being a suicide, involves so much processing. What they also don’t take into account is that even if he were resurrected into the new world as taught, things still won’t be the same. His sisters will be older, possibly with kids of their own. I grieve this too for my daughters. He won’t have the joys of watching them grow up if his nieces & nephews are adults by the time he’s resurrected. I presented this idea to one of the last few jw friends I still have. It did make her stop & think but she’s still in, however she is much more sensitive than most to what comforts me & what doesn’t. Which is why she’s still my friend. Most others have been mutually cut off.
@@TheBreangelina thank you ❤️
“You can’t swim because Satan rules the waters” was definitely a rule written by a guy that was sick of everyone making fun of him for not being able to swim 😂
Water is also the element that is asociated with the femenin and with emotion
Were did they derive that idea from? The demonized pigs jumping over the cliff into the water?
What do you call a Mormon that procrastinates?
A later today saint.
Bruh
You made my day😂
😁
That's adorable lol! Makes me think of a "not" joke.The various priests of the Roman Catholic Church, Orthodox Church, and the various Rabbis, along with the various elders, leaders and upper eschalon of all Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Bahai, and all the other "best and brightest" of all the faiths, doctors, philosopher, and learned people of the world are having a worldwide meeting to decide once and for all, which "one" is "right". A little child happens upon them all bickering amongst themselves and asks, "why don't you all just change the way you treat each other?" And all these supposedly intellectually and/or faithfully superior men turn to the child and reply with one voice, "Change?! What is this change of which you speak? 🤔"
🤣😂
"Everything that is unique about Mormonism is not good and everything that is good in Mormonism is not unique" That's something I've heard a lot in ex-Mormon circles. And it's very true!
"Everything Good in a Religion is not unique, and everything unique is not always true"
It makes my blood boil when I hear Shelise tell how the bishop basically tried to claim her talent for the church. When I got accepted into a prestigious ballet academy, the bishop immediately called to tell me it was my missionary calling. I was being sent on my own unique mission for the church to spread the gospel through my talent. Good thing there was a vibrant and affirming community waiting for me that would challenge me to investigate everything in order to expand my talent, rather than tailor to fit an agenda.
Yeah, the bishop's presumption bothers me too.
Right?? I always hated that people in church always would say, "You're so lucky god gave you that gift!" with anything someone said they were good at. Immediately minimizes the work that people put into their hobbies and passions.
Such a great observation! I had never considered that so deeply. I'm happy you got to use your talent in the way YOU wanted! We are featuring this comment in my new video with altworldly releasing tomorrow. Thanks for sharing!
@@cerberaodollam don’t be an @ss hole. I had this name for 26 years before Columbine and have been on the receiving end of hateful comments for the past 25. While you may find making fun of my name witty, doing so belittles the tragedy and dishonors the victims of that and every tragic school shooting ever since.
Prepare to be reported.
JW elders and people in generally also try to dissuade young people (Men and women) from pursuing a career and instead try to push people into missionary work...
My mom became a JW when I was about 5 years old. It's my belief that they pounced on her as she was going through a lot then with both my dad and I being seriously ill (near fatal heart attack for him, to-this-day unknown immune issues for me) and my brother being the sociopath he was. I was dragged to the meetings and at 13 and I said I didn't want to go anymore (I'd begun to seriously question a LOT of their teaching) but my father, who was atheist, said it was either the JW's or the Catholic church. I chose to stay with the JW's since I knew how to work around them.
When my dad passed when I was 16, I told my mom that I wasn't going to go anymore and that legally she couldn't make me go. 24 hours later I come home from school and there were 4 elders there that "just wanted to talk". They then proceeded to try to brow beat me for 5 hours throwing out comments like I must hate my parents because by leaving I was proving that I didn't want to see them/be with them in paradise, that I was hurting my mom and being ungrateful, it went on and on. I remained steadfast and refused to budge and finally told them that I was done talking to them and if they tried to corner me again with their BS, I would go to the police and tell them I was being stalked and harassed by them. I then asked them who they thought the police would believe; me, a young teenage girl who recently lost her father or some creepy old guys part of a weird religion that were trying to force me into said religion. They never bothered me again.
JW's are a cult and nobody will ever convince me different. I'm quite happy being Pagan and have been Pagan for 35 years.
Don’t look for a church for your salvation, look for Jesus! Blessings!
I didn’t grow up jw or lds but very conservative Christian, and when I got married, I cried the whole time on my honeymoon because I had so much shame about sex, that honestly is kind of a struggle to this day
That is an almost unbelievable testimony. "The Lord is my strength, my high tower. In Him I will I trust."
I wasn't raised particularly religious, but that whole purity culture was so pervasive to my generation where I grew up, it didn't matter. I too still have shame. I felt tainted from the time I first recognized I had been abused, and still do to this day. My brain cannot reconcile the same act being shameful without a ring on your finger and perfectly fine with one. I have come to an age where celibacy is reasonable, and I embrace it; it's just easier.
GOD made sex. If he put a ring on it, it's legal. But I understand.
I was a JW my ex husband beat me and the elders did not want to recognize my divorce because it wasn't on the grounds of adultery. I was not allowed to date. I was a regular Pioneer. I started having issues with that then with the Elders disfellowshipping a single mother for being caught smoking cigarettes. I ended up getting disfellowshipped for dating a ministerial servant and we got married. They still didn't want to recognize my divorce. Well I was emotionally vulnerable a week later and 2 Mormon missionaries showed up, we joined the Mormon church because it sounded like it made sense, the whole emotional pull of families are forever. We kept going to the temple and it wasn't making sense and then when I had uterine cancer and couldn't have children and the whole well you were just meant to have children in the spirit world started upsetting me. Then sitting in the Celestial room the scripture of Jesus chastising the disciples for forbidding the children from entering His presence. Then the scripture where Jesus got mad at the money changers at the temple. It dawned on me, if this was the true church and the Celestial room was the presence of God, why were we forbidding people from being in His presence? Then if people have to pay tithing to be there aren't we charging for ordinances in the temple which is just as bad as the money changers? I was done!
When she says "you can become a god" and "when you're 12, you have the priesthood" there should be a disclaimer: "Offer does not apply to all genders" (Also I guess they can add "Now available for black men!" as that was not always the case.) Edit: One nice thing about Mormon theology that is unique: Almost everyone goes to Heaven, Mormon or not. You go to the *lowest* Heaven, the Telestial Kingdom, but you have to be especially awful to be sent to Hell (aka "Perdition"). I am not Mormon, but I do have a number of Mormon friends.who occasionally try to convert me.
I remember getting so upset when I'd see JWs as a Mormon missionary. We'd talk trash about you guys all the time!
Now, watching an exJW talk about his experiences, I feel like you guys are 100% my people! You get it, and I'll hang out with y'all anytime! We're all basically blood brothers (no pun intended).
Yep I was taking care of my mom after a stroke, I had 2 small children and I made 10.93 an hour and I tithed faithfully because I believed things would get worse if I didn’t and better if I did. When my mom died, they wanted to charge me to have her funeral at the church. I passed and just used the funeral home. But after all the tithes and service to this church, I was heartbroken. It woke me up.
That is very upsetting. When I started to read the Bible for myself...I realized the first generation church is the book of Acts was a church centered in giving and meeting the needs of others. Then I hear stories like this where rather than the church giving to those in need...they take and take from those in need. It is the complete opposite of what should be happening. It is nothing short of demonic.
Wow, that is heartbreaking. If I was God I would be dead by now seeing and feeling all the suffering. I'm so amazed that God is still alive and well, bearing our pain with us.
I went to catholic school and they gave us a similar lesson to the cupcake one. They gave us a piece of tape and asked us to stick it to our arm, then remove it and stick it to someone else, again and again, until it wouldn’t stick anymore… the lesson was that the more sexual partners you have, the harder it becomes to create a real bond with a partner to marry… until you can’t
Of course that's not actually true and isn't back up by any research but it seems slightly less harmful than the "if you have sex before marriage you will become like trash and no one will want you" that they said at mormon church in the 90s.
Yikes!
Religion often ignores the fact that there's an ocean of possibilities between having hundreds of partners and waiting until marriage. They ignore the fact you're not a piece of tape for example, and that the sentiment that link you to a person you just want to have a one night stand with it's not the same sentiment you feel for someone you're in love with, or the fact you can have standards even if you don't want something serious at the moment, and that you might want something serious later. Everything is awfully simplicistic when it's convenient
That is horrendous. I am so sorry you had to listen to that. :(
That's a good lesson.
I grew up a JW and I must admit that I’ve never been more unhappy than when I was apart of that cult. Child development is never talked about and for me it was hard. I know I have a mild level of social anxiety because of being told that I couldn’t talk or play with other children that don’t share my “faith”. I would have to be the odd man out and watch other kids have fun during classroom birthday parties and holidays. I ended up learning how to creat a totally different person by the time I started high school when not around family or other JW. I became deeply ashamed of myself and a good liar because of that. I never got to enjoy my weekends because field service took priority. I also have a cousin who had a complete mental breakdown because everything she did was “too good for her” and the last straw was that her new car that she worked so hard to buy(a Toyota) was “too new and she didn’t need all that”. At this point in my life I feel disgusted and traumatized when ever I drive pass a Kingdom Hall or see people out in field service. I hope more open their eyes to what this cult is and confront Bethel on all this crap.
It took me a couple decades after not being a Witness that I could pass a Kingdom Hall and not curse its existence, so yeah, I feel you there. But there is light there, you will eventually get past that hurt and reaction.
But the response when you see others out "in service" there are definitely ways to speak to them to try to encourage them to leave. Again, I had time when I was very aggressive and just told JWs to get lost, but now, I ask them questions, about the revisions to the doctrine, about the books and tracts that aren't biblical, about why (relevant to this video) that Jehovah's Witnesses in service weren't actually of service like the Mormons, that kind of thing. I ask them what works, what skills, the faith teaches to make them diligent stewards of the Garden once they get there, because the Witnesses don't do any of that! There's no "paradise prep" like, if only Witnesses survive Armageddon, and all you've been taught is converting non-believers, what are you going to do in Paradise? Can you garden, can you tend animals, do you have any skills or instincts that teach you to help other people or create something? Those in the faith get so hung up on "the end is near" that they never even think to ask so what if we're right, and we're faithful, what then?" Yhe Witnesses don't practice being good to people, they don't practice being good to the earth, or the animals we share it with and that was Jehovah's default setting for Adam... why aren't they teaching those skills? Encouraging those social activities to practice good works. Hit them with things they can't really refute because church doctrine has drown out rational forethought. Help them get skeptical and it will help heal the damage that's been done to you.
Good luck on your healing journey.
I still do the same if I see one 25 years later. People don’t understand the trauma being raised in this cult causes.
Sorry that you had such a bad experience. When I was growing up and even when I became an adult I always wanted to have JW friends because I wanted to know what life was like on that side. However, it wasn't allowed for those children. When I became a young adult I began going to JW homes to see if they would study with me. However, when they found out I could not believe all they taught and could not answer my questions to my satisfaction, the relationships ended. I really love those people and Mormons also are so friendly and forgiving...at least to me they were.
There were a few exceptions of JWs who would continue to welcome me when I came to their door. However, I could see over time that they were not open minded to consider deeper revelation than they were taught, so those relationships did not develop very far. I'm still open to discussing the Bible and other conversation with them as I believe Jesus taught us to be willing to minister to anyone who, in His eyes, has a need. And that need can be just about anything.
I had mental illness from birth but growing up jw didn't help at all. Now I'm 46 and trying to start over. It's hard to not be angry but I try. It's good to hear stories that resonate and yours definitely does. Thank you!
What? Wasn't it a 4 door?😆
The bit at 31:03 is so validating because from the congregation, when a JW leaves and is dealing with mental health issues, that only validates the people who stay because they aren't dealing with mental health issues themselves. They can't see that it's only when you leave that you realize just how damaging it was to stay, and are ready to decompartmentalize the mental issues we never allowed ourselves to feel weren't normal.
That may be true in your case but not all cases.
And if you leave you are mentally diseased. So if you do deal with mental health issues its because Satan is playing with you and your issues will disappear if you go back to the religion
That makes a lot of sense.
I love your comment thank you for voicing what I couldn’t
JWs have an above per Capita incidence of mental illness. There have been studies done on it. Was at a dinner party once & 4 of the 6 adults were on antidepressants. That's what you get when you hold up an unobtainable goal.
Flowers singing in heaven made my heart smile. I don't believe in a God or heaven or hell. But if I did, I would like my heaven to have singing flowers. That is just such a wholesome thing
even though i haven't set a foot in a kingdom hall in years, having been raised in the religion has had such a tremendous grip on my worldview, and it's through videos like these that i'm able to put everything in perspective and realize other people have been told the same things while thinking they're the ones with the "truth". thank you so much for the video, would love a part 2 :)
I got raised Jehovah Witness into adulthood, left my family,- disowned of course - and then ended up wed with a Mormon for the last 15 years - not practicing any religion under our roof. That discussion was really great to watch, did bring a lot of points that weren't clear for both of us and explained some issues we faced. Thank you for taking the time to upload this!
This is a huge eye opener! Im a gay ex-Jw and my boyfriend is a (kinda?) ex Mormon. His father committed ss and when I tell him its ok to mourn he just tells me "its fine". in fact he tells me ALL the time that things are "Fine" and I cant stand it. when anything is wrong with me, he is front row and center there to help me out but when i go to help him its just "fine" and he wont open up.
He’s your boyfriend. You don’t have to stay with him if you’re dissatisfied with any aspect of him, whether it’s his emotional openness or anything else. If something drives you crazy, just know that it’s ok to move on.
Are you struggling with fear of the unknown if you were to break up with him? I say this because I’ve seen so many exJWs connect romantically with other cult survivors (especially their fellow exJWs, but also exmos, etc), thinking that no one else will “get” them. Oftentimes, trauma-binding and cult-instilled insecurities will keep us in these relationships that really shouldn’t be happening in the first place. Not saying that’s what you’re dealing with, just offering the observation. I’m an exJW, by the way. You deserve happiness and a partner that satisfies you on all levels. I wish you all the best, no matter what your circumstances are! ❤️
Tell him therapy or you leave
People process things differently. He may actually be fine working through stuff on his own. Not everybody needs to hear words of encouragement after a major loss.
Depending on how long you’ve been together, he may need and deserve more time to open up. Let him know you’re there without judgment. Some people need more time.
I’m not an ex-JW or ex-Mormon, but I appreciated my now husband giving me time to open up about trauma and sa.
It may be a specific situation that occurs between people recovering from these religions, so get more advice than just mine.
As an ex mormon myself. Don't take it personal. That's how he was raised.
I converted to the Mormon church and went through the temple. I quit when, after my divorce, I was pregnant with my second child and had a 4 year old daughter. I was given $100 for food stamps to feed both myself and my daughter for the month. I was tithing 10% of my welfare money which was $495 per month for rent and utilities. I went to my church and interviewed with the bishop for food assistance. He turned around behind his big mohagony desk, pulled out a big we ring binder and said the church couldn't help me because I was on welfare. 2 weeks later I quit and asked them to take my name off of the rolls of the church. I've never been back.
No idea why youtube recommended this video in my algorithm but I watched the whole thing and found it very interesting. Thanks to both of you for sharing.
Excellent conversation! I'm a current LDS member, but I'm always open to hearing why people have left, and comparing how differently members are treated all across the board. I've personally had some bad experiences with a lot of church leaders and members I've had in the past, including being judged for career choices, habits, sense of style plus other things entirely out of line and disrespectful. Thank you both for sharing your experiences with religion!
rare Mormon w, I appreciate your openness and not immediately shutting down ex-mo experiences, especially in none of the tiresome and repetitive ways that I've heard throughout my life.
My leaving had very little to do with the current organization of the Mormon church. I find that it has a very strong community structure and is overall a positive influence on values. However, none of that changes how I feel about the objective truth of the claims Smith made.
Creepy
Not trying to be rude and this definitely isn’t mean or an attack on you, but my experience is this is type of comment is more about helping you feel better about your beliefs in Mormonism. Some people it’s a smugness, others it’s a “if they only knew the capital ‘T’ truth!”, but I don’t think you are honestly open to hear others why. You believe in Mormonism and that’s your belief. A person’s epistemology and belief systems have a lot that go into it such familial ties, parents beliefs, community, confirmation biases, psychology, physiology in the brain like endorphins, needing to be accepted, strength in numbers despite doubt, etc, etc so it’s not like I don’t get why people have their beliefs. And people are excellent at holding on to said beliefs despite conflicting information.
We know the Book of Mormon didn’t happen through historical knowledge, ethnolinguistics, genetics, metallurgy, zoology and taxonomy, agriculture, environmental studies, geology, etc, etc. Plus there’s the conflicting accounts from Joseph Smith himself, the convictions of Joseph Smith because of defrauding people, his own mother saying he loved to tell outrageous stories as a child, similar books that were produced at the time, etc, etc.
So to me, with all we have learned about Mormonism, it falls apart. But you still believe which I infer that you’re making a positive claim that Mormonism is true. So instead of explaining why a person is no longer a Mormon (and there are a dozen plus denominations), my question is; why do still believe? I’m very open to hear why you are a member of a Mormon church.
@@roncrocker1343 explain
Wow. I grew up going to a Baptist church and then continuing in a non denomination church in my 20s and 30s. When I lost a child, it was just like the Mormon church. As a Christian, I still had to show I was the perfect mom for my other two kids. I was told God needed her. She will never experience worldly pain, etc. When I lost my mom, I had to appear at peace and fine even though I lost my voice for 2 weeks. Toxic positivity.
I grew up in the baptist church. In my early 20s I found gnostic christianity and paganism. The most freedom I ever felt was walking away from the “truth” and finding actual spiritual truth on my own instead of from a group of people who didn’t truly care about me. Toxic positivity is so real there… “it’s in god’s plan” “he’s gonna take care of you.” No, what happened by the loss of a loved one is horrible, and a god who planned and plotted that demise is cruel. There’s so much actual spiritual truth that is warped by the church. Protestant Christianity doesn’t even recognize the books from the Nag Hammadi library. They picked and chose their scriptures instead of doing work to find out what’s true and teach people with love.
I am so sorry you had this experience. You are not alone. My grief was warped and used against me when I miscarried my son at 4 months pregnant, and at 7 months my daughter was born still. You are worthy, you are loved, you are not alone, and there is still spiritual truth to be found outside of the cults we grew up in. Peace and love to you, dear. Namaste
I feel like people just don't know what to say. They want to make you feel better. They don't want you to be in pain because it hurts them to see you in pain. What should they say? I feel like I wouldn't say the right things either.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Perhaps. I went looking for answers after I was assaulted at 7. I wanted to know why God would allow this to happen. I went to church by myself and would often go to different churches. I just ended up in the choir. Maybe they aren’t equipped to handle things like this. However, maybe they need to be or can at least offer resource since they are serving the communities they are in and that tithe there.
@@knitmore3 Humans don't take care of others as much as we should. It's the sad truth.
@Ageless Beauty416 I'm really sorry this happened to you.
Awesome video!
I began to wake up from the JW's (Jehovah's Witness) by reading about Mormons and watching videos entitled.."I was a Mormon".
Then John Dehlin's excommunication was broadcast on television. I started following him and I noticed a ton of similarities between the JW's and the Mormons. This was an eye-opener for me!!
After that I got the courage to go to CZcams and look up.. "Why do people leave the Jehovah's Witnesses faith"...that's when I really started waking up!
I became obsessed listening to all ExJW stories on CZcams and the FEAR of the "so called" apostates that we are taught to detest started to become a different reality, they are just people telling their experiences when they were an active JW and why they left.
So all the stigma started to dwindle.
Then I branched out and started looking into Seventh Day Adventist, Scientology, Christadelphians, The Brethren, Christian Science.
I started noticing the parallels between all the religions, and it runs deep...no questioning, no doubting and everything comes from the top down.
The rank-and-file are just the followers with no personal self, no individuality.
After you wake up and start seeing these things it can take a toll on you, especially if this is the only thing you have known all of your life.
Therapy is definitely a must when waking up!
I can now honestly say that life is better on the outside! 💯
I love this cross over that has helped. I’m ex-mo & it’s crazy to see the similarities.
I learned so much from cults, day after day, every time I listen to the cult stories. The very second one I ever met, Jehovah’s Witnesses, I never enjoyed their so called teaching, which of course in fact propaganda and toxic indoctrinations, but after I looked back, they really taught me so much, and in fact now I realize not only I was born in one giant cult-ruling country makes up about 1/5 of human populations on earth, the people republic of China, but also realize that cult is nowhere far from any of us, but in fact, the entire span human history is the history of cults. We are in fact in the abnormal period of time in human history which we can recognize cults and set ourselves free from.
You seem ambivalent about Jehovah's Witnesses (I am one) but you perceive correctly that we are living in an abnormal and critical time - Daniel 12:4
@@garymeredith488 If you are Witness, I'm surprised that you are commenting/viewing this video. Good for you, I encourage that. Critical thinking is so needed (I consider myself a post JW).
The podcast Sounds Like A Cult is an excellent and really interesting exploration of this idea
As an exvangelical, I am always amazed at just how much I have in common with exJWs and exMormons. So much of the same trama and abuse is present in all of the more "conservative" brands of Christianity.
Thank y'all for sharing! 🫶
It's so similar. Fundamentalists always seem to have approximately the same goals and techniques, no matter what religion they're in.
True of all the abrahamic religions when it comes to the more conservative groups.
Fantastic video, you two!
I am never forgetting that quote:
Everything good about it is not unique, and everything that makes it unique is not necessarily good.
In my experience, abuse of power and especially sexual abuse is a common theme in EVERY religion. Teaching children to believe things without proof, and at the same time forbid them to question ANYTHING, makes them the perfect victim for a predator!
But all that is easy for me to see, since I was born as atheist and never felt the need for a religion in my life.
I feel like Post-JW would fit as a description for people who grew up in a family of JWs, but never got baptized.
Apostate, which iirc is used, but instead used to mean runaway slave, I think is the most fitting.
They called us "noté" (Noted) in French. Anything similar in English?
Can you say existentialism
@mrtrillbe apostate actually doesn't mean "runaway slave"
It means to "stand apart" as in revolt. You can look it up in lexicon and write to religious studies professors. Runaway slave doesn't capture the tone of the word apostate.
It conveys the idea of someone in open revolt.
@@kylekataryn3454 actually the Greeks refured to an escaped slave as an apostate because It meant "I revolt" the only reason it's used in a religious sense is because the people who originally translated the bible read and wrote Greek because the Romans thought it made them look clever, the use of a now religious term, in one of its original secular uses is called irony
i started watching videos from a ex mormon lady some days ago and thought "oh my, that reminds me in the basics of jw". seeing these video made me look up ex jw videos. i am an ex jw since 17 years and to watch these videos brought up so much trauma again. it feels bad, but it helps me a lot. it wasnt me, i was not wrong and i am not guilty. traumas and conditioning was used on me by people i trusted the most - my family, my parents - since i was born. realizing that most of my traumas resulted from being in this organization doesnt make it better, but at least i know now where it comes from and thats the start of healing. thank you for your videos
Hearing the horrific truth about missions breaks my heart. I remember sitting in church and being so proud of and excited for the you g men going out, and so impressed with those coming back. I remember missionaries almost always lost tons of weight on the mission, it was a widely known thing. Everyone just said it was cuz they were walking/riding their bikes all day, no one said it's bc they're being actively starved!
Reading about Joseph Smith and the start of the LDS church was the final straw in my voyage to atheism because I realized how easy it is to start a religion and get people to believe complete BS.
Ex-Baptist here. I can relate to some of this. It could be fun to do an interview with either of you.
I’m 75, long line of family were JW’s. Most dead now and most thought they would NEVER die. My question for someone out there is this : How do you rationalize the fact that your Parents and Grandparents believed the whole nine yards ALL their lives? I always thought my Dad was soooo intelligent but after I realized ‘it’s not THE TRUTH’ I have a hard time figuring how he believed it till his end. 🙄
I think it just goes to show how indoctrinated and 'brain washed' people can be. As a former JW I can understand this. When your whole life is intertwined with people with the same belief system, it can rock your world if that vanishes. And JW's won't really allow association or at the very least frown down upon hanging out with people that are inactive or of course disfellowshipped.
I know a lot of very intelligent Mormons . Well educated . I was educated and yet I believed .
People have a amazing capability to compartmentalize beliefs in tiny boxes in our brains and we all create our own private version of the religion that is comfortable for us. Once I stopped privileging Church doctrine it was all over for me.
Ego and pride bring shame upon certain people that won't let themselves admit the truth even if they know it's the truth.
Rather than honor the conviction and recognize what's being revealed to them they'd rather go to the grave dealing with what is perceived to them as condemnation of then being wrong vs conviction.
Growing up, our parents are the source of everything we know, or of everything that is 'true'. They have all the answers, and have my best interest at heart. Then at some point (usually as a teen or an adult) you realize they're just people. Flawed people stumbling through life, same as you. Prone to their biases, and can fall for lies and manipulation no matter how smart they are or think they are. It's disappointing for sure, frustrating even.
@@Irishxlily Unless one or more parents/ guardians are narcissists which have the emotional intelligence of a 2 year old at best. Therefore the child recognizes the ignorance of their guardians much earlier, about age 4+. Narcissists see their children as mini versions of themselves and don't understand that this child(ren) is an individual and has their own thoughts, likes, dislikes, and in most cases is way more intelligent scholastically and emotionally than the guardian.
Grew up LDS too. We didn't use a "licked cupcake" in our ward but my leaders used a "chewed gum" analogy. I'm 32 and it still randomly pops up in my head. Even after being out for 12 years.
I grew up in a fundamentalist community in Canada and also got the used chewing gum analogy!
I grew up Jw as well.
One of my best friends in grade school had just moved from Utah to Canada with his parents at 13 siblings.
I was surprised by some of the similarities and big differences.
His mom really liked me because she knew I was Jw and said I had "values"
My first video (with either of you)! This was really good! It was honest and mature! You two are great together!
This was so interesting. I was a 4th generation JW & lived in a neighborhood full of Mormons. We had MANY conversations. They always said that I was Mormon & just didn’t know it yet.. LOL! Tried to do their best to convert me. No thanks. So many similarities to JW’s & yet so different.
Wow this was great! I had no idea about either religion/cult. I love learning new things! This podcast taught me a lot. You two are so young and so wise! Great show. Thank you so much.
Excellent interview you two! Two great personalities coming together for a very captivating video. Shelise needs to come back soon.
I left being a Witness after 20 years, and became a Mormon. The similarities were comfortable, but the differences never felt right to me. Eventually I left that too. I'd just got signed off on my temple recommend when I realised I couldn't go through with it. The cost of the garments alone put me off.
😂
You discarded the wedding garment the Lord gave to you?
That toxic positivity where you can’t grieve for a child or a loved one who died is very parallel to witnesses , it’s the same carrot they hold over your head. Oh if you want to see them again you have to do all these things, go in service, be a perfect witness Yada Yada.
Fantastic interview.
I befriended a Ex-mormon guy about 15 years ago (I'm an Ex-JW). We'd have epic conversations about our bizzare childhoods. We could really relate to eachother, despite all of the differences.
It was interesting to hear things from the female perspective from Shelise.
I grew up and baptized as a JW, and the mom example you gave about she having to take care ok the kids being ready and also making food and cleaning and getting herself ready, the husband doing nothing and then pretending to be peaceful and great at meetings 5 min later after all the stress... my mom lived that every week and it was very visible for me
Shout out from Portland Oregon! I’m not an ex-religious person but the opposite. I’m an ex addict who committed countless sins for many years. I’m happy to report that I’m now a follower of Jesus. 🙌 Thank you for sharing your experience. I find it all fascinating!!
As a postmo who's listened to many episodes of MSP, MD, ZotS, Nemo, and Telltale, this was a refreshing change of pace and I thoroughly enjoyed it! I'm going to have to give both of y'all's channels a look
“If you do something wrong who’s gonna yell at you? You know other than everyone?”
great discussion here I dealt with being in the mormon church up to when I was 16 through social avoidance and thought repression, it’s a lot to unpack even after 3 years out. thanks for taking the time to talk about it, it is helpful to think about!
I live in a conservative area of my city full of mormons, evangelicals, pentecostals and JWs (me being raised catholic) so learning about the differences is very interesting. To me they all blend into one traditionalist, fundamentalist blob of people surrounding my house which is just a lil' scary as a gay dude.
Haven’t finished the video yet but I’m glad you guys touched on the nontrinitarianism thing, I was surprised to find out the LDS perspective on that because I grew up thinking JWs were the only ones who believed jeebus and god are separate
@@vusimngomezulu2500 wow my first vusi reply, im truly honored
There are also Oneness Pentecostals for not believing in the Trinity.
I am a former Jehovah’s Witness but I still don’t believe the trinity makes any sense how can you be a father and son and the Holy Ghost how can you send yourself to earth to die for mankind. That part still doesn’t make any sense to me. I think all religions are baloney
@tandoori
Bart Ehrman, an atheist, wrote a book "The history of heaven and hell" and "how jesus became god"
Religion is an evolving phenomenon
@@vusimngomezulu2500koo
Excellent conversation; I feel like I learned so much from this! Also exjws and exmos watching each others propaganda sounds amazing lmao
@16:45 If she wasn't an ExMormon I would have sworn that our guest host was a former Bethelite, because that sounds JUST like the JW Bethel Talk for sisters... like word for word.
Great conversation once again
Just found this channel. You two are very good together. Very interesting. Just the right tone. Thanks.
So the mormon church is a business. A ranch is also a business. If you look at women as though they are cows it makes sense to get them married and pregnant so they can make more tithing payers. The boys can't make more so they send them out to find more tithing payers. When you look at the church in a different light it all starts to make more sense.
Not only is it a business, but a multi-million dollar business.
My parents and I converted when I was in a midteens. It wasn’t until they told me my stillborn niece was in purgatory is when things started to make since then having to talk to my bishop about “my gay thoughts” after that conversation i stepped away and haven’t looked back. It’s interesting seeing others who have same experiences. Didn’t know LDS and Witnesses were so similar.
Polygamy is still an issue in Utah. I was driving home from work the other day and say a billboard that said "trying to escape polygamy?" Then it gave a holiness number, so it's bad enough that there's an actual holiness for it.
Fascinating comparison! Thank you for the video!
Thank you both! This has been so interesting to me. Wish you all the best in life. Want to see more videos from both of you.
This was very entertaining and informative, im following both of y’all 🙏🏼
as a former catholic, it astonishes me how many similarities we all share... especially in the trauma department!
Here I thought this was a 20 minute video, but lo and behold it was an hour, amazing job!
I know a non-mormon lady who got married. She ended up finding out through church records that the man she married was already married and had a family.
I was born and raised JW and thought I had it bad, but between the money thing and the interviews with the bishop seems so much worse treatment. Thanks for the perspective.
Yeah... I was told not to touch myself. My mom said it would make me go blind. Thank goodness for speech to text and ADA phones 😂
As a non-Mormon who experienced LDS culture both in and out of Utah, Utah Mormonism is a whole different beast. Utah Mormons had an invisible switch that instantly turned them from mostly super kind, friendly people to mindless zombies.
Same with Idaho! Especially in eastern idaho, they are some culty, sick, demented, doomsday zombies over there. They have infiltrated our legislature, government, schools, healthcare, law, construction, farming, manufacturing. I hate them with a vengeance.
I was a born in JW. Fucked up my entire life. My mother and father were both child molesters and my father beat me almost every day. I’m 58 now with high blood pressure and 2 brain aneurysms. But I’m glad to finally be free. Been out for 15 years.
Sounds like your parents would have fucked up your live no mater what religion they believe in.
@@dawnr6381 yes for sure but Jehovah’s Witnesses are notoriously famous for child molesters. There is a “ two witness rule that protects them. 2 people have to witness the abuse before anything will be done. Not many child molesters will let that happen. Look up JW’s Australian Royal commission.
@@Rain-Peters Catholics are no better. I’m sorry your parents did that to you. I do understand hidden abuse.
@@dawnr6381 agreed. Catholics too. Religions are nutritious for child abuse. 😢
That Was Awesome! Love and light young Masters.
Had a JW friend stay with me a few years ago. (it was OK he said because I saved him the price of a hotel room so it was business, yes, he really did said that) Anyway, he would give me the JW spiel once or twice a day so that helped justify staying with a heathen too. One day a nicely dressed couple was walking up my driveway carrying what looked to be Bibles. My friend smiled as said "A brother and sister are here, now we will really go to work on you"! Halfway down the driveway his smile disappear, "our people don't wear name tags" he tersely said! My friend and the Mormon couple remained civil to each other for about 30 seconds before they they were accusing each other of being in league with the Devil. I told them that there would be no war of religion on my property and to take it out to the street, Religion turns normal people into lunatics'.
This was a very interesting conversation. I grew up in the Christian (baptist) religion. My eyes and mind were opened around the age of 18. I’ve been non-religious atheist since. It was the best feeling in the world. I’m 37 now and always just lived my life without thinking of religion anymore but recently I’ve been diving into likeminded people. Hitchens, Stephen fry, Sam harris and so on. As long as people who believe they have a moral high ground because of some religion and they want to control society I’m going to at least be better educated and know how to somewhat fight back. Religion poisons so many things. I’m glad to see people get away from religion and start to heal.
We have a pretty large JW community on my north-german island.
Being a very atheistic region to begin with, they were basically the only religious people I had contact with until I went to the military.
I realised they were cultish when one family of a classmate left JW. Another family to this day do not speak with them anymore and they were super close.
The mom of the family that left is so cheerful and just radiant nowadays. Remember her being suuuuper grouchy back when they were still in JW.
Personal gripe: Met a girl after 15 years again who I went to elementary school with. We instantly just clicked like crazy and talked for 2 hours in the cold at a trainstation. Then all of a sudden she goes: “This is great. You are great. But you aren’t JW so I have to stop this.” Asked her if this is more important than her happiness and future. “Yes my community would hate me.”
They are a cult 100%.
David Fitzgerald has a great book on the history of the Mormons. He's going to be writing one on the JWS, not sure when it will be completed but I will let you know Jake! His book is so good and he gets into the nitty gritty of his life.
Zoe knox recently published a book on JWs "Jehivahs witnesses and ilthe secular world"
Shes a Russian literary scholar and noted universally in soviet literature theyre spoken of negatively. Thst caught her attention, so she began researching them, surprised to find very few scholars have written anything on them in decades
@@kylekataryn3454 Is it in English or in Russian?
At 30:59, you guys mentioned how growing up you don't notice these issues and it's not until you look back on it that it becomes clear what happened. That resonates hard with me, having grown up in a "non-denominational" Christian church (which turns out, was just Evangelical btw, haha). There's innumerable examples of times where I've looked back on how that affected me; especially since I've grown to realize how much I repressed myself for being gay.
As for the death thing, raised at the JW, I was always told that our day of death is better than our day of birth as now we have proven ourselves to Jehovah. Also, just recently I saw a governing body member talk about a new baby and he said :usually people will say “look at that little angel“ when they really should be saying “look at that enemy of Jehovah“ 😮😮😮I’m not making this shit up.
I saw that clip. It felt very culty, very. Reminded me of the comet people out in CA.
Jake you are adorable! Another well done video and I'd like to see you do more conversational vlogs.
Protest Protest Protest. October 31st 2023 in Washington DC at the white house. Everyone in high controlled groups or have left are encouraged to attend the Protest for change. The protest is permitted and APPROVED. THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO BE MADE AWARE OF THE DANGEROUS RULES AND POLICIES THAT ARE HARMING MEMBERS. AND INFRINGING ON THE FREEDOM & RIGHTS OF THE MEMBERS.
Have asked this about 20 times: How can families be forever and you get to be a God of your own world the same time?
It's interesting how a few times she was discussing something as "everyone gets [priesthood/a planet/etc.]" then later qualified that "everyone" meant "just men."
Thank you Shelise and Jake!
So much shame... We all probably were slapped as babies when our hands went down there, but how would we know now.
Owning a planet:
I was told maybe God would give me an hubby our own planet some day... by a former CO. Also, overheard people talking about that out in service.
They would come to that conclusion because someday the earth would be full, why not fill the rest of the planets in the universe?
As with so many JW urban legends that continue for decades, the leadership was a.o.k. with this rumor, otherwise they would squash it. Maybe one of them started it, who knows.
@governing body language
There was a governing body member who ised to be very hostile to the idea of space travel in the 30s - 40s. He had written something like the envelope thwt surrounds the earth is impenetrable.
Looking back just decades prior to the 50s is revelatory.
At one time they taught that aluminum cookware was demonic.
It was in the literature. Sometime in either the late 80's or 90's there was an emerald green book published that advanced that thought. That someday JWs would have the opportunity to populate other planets.
@@nobodysbaby5048 Thanks @nobodys baby! I think they stole it from the Mormons... ;) Have a great day!
@@governingbodylanguage2025 Kind of blows holes in that whole "Babylon the Great" thing. Did you hear about the stock portfolio?
@@nobodysbaby5048 Yeah. and yes. I started researching in 2015 and am finally starting to become an ex ex-jw. whew. I usually tell others about these things! But, thanks!!! I hate what facts like that would do to my nervous system... for days! But, they are inoculation from the cult. Thankfully, it only happens about once a year now, but they still have more in their graveyard of facts. It's so bad.
Speaking on toxic positivity. We had an elder give a talk and proudly say that about an hour or two after finding out his mother passed away he held an elders meeting. He had some reasoning about it but I was so shocked and shocked that the people around me weren’t shocked.😬
Aren’t all religions cults?
@@Hbd2002 Nope. If you can walk away without repercussions and keep in contact with your family, who still believe, without shaming you for your choice, then it is not a cult. Cults can only exist in a state, where the choice to not be in one is robbing you of literally everything. The problem is, that no matter what religion, some fanatic is going to try and base a cult upon it. Fatanics love religion, as they can do horrendous things by claiming God wanted them to do it and so it must be just. I may be religious, but I'm by no means blinded to how something that should be good can be twisted by a twisted mind.
@@Hbd2002 pretty much, but that doesn't mean they are bad. Shared community values have a lot of positives even if they come with negatives.
I'm watching and listening...I am not a Mormon or really any religion...common sense just tells ME...all of them, want you to be fearful !!! How sad is that ??!! NEW RULES : don't think, don't act, don't speak..just do what we want you to do... OH...and we want all of your money
Checking in on ya Jake since I haven’t seen anything in a bit. But holy crappy this video blew up compared to when I watched it.
Deserved!!!!!
So you know Mormonism is the true church because of a feeling but if you get that feeling with anything else it's Satan trying to trick you. But you can trust that feeling with the Mormon church because it's the true church. That's circular reasoning.
That's not correct, for Jesus taught the truth that the Spirit is felt when the Spirit descends down upon us.. See
Luke Chapter 22::32 If you could not feel the Spirit then you cannot experience joy nor happiness or warmth, or peace.
The Burning of the bossom by the Spirit as described by latter-day saints is Bible Doctrine. That is how God speaks
with a still small voice through the Spirit that penetrates through all things.
This is the first time that I’ve listened ne of your podcast. I quite enjoyed it. I too am an ex Mormon the same as Shelise.
I went to Wood Stake and had a bad LDS trip. If you play a Caleb & Sophia video and "Knock Knock Knockin' on Heaven's Door", they sync right up.
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Thanks for the interview. I have a suggestion if she ever wants to write a book maybe title it “why the flowers sing in heaven” LOL,
haha! laughed out loud! Great suggestion! I am actually writing a book, but have a title already ;) I will definitely consider adding that scene into the book though!
@@CultstoConsciousness maybe your second book then. Lol.
Would love to add Adventism to this conversation which also came out of the social Gospel movement.
Very informative for me. It’s such a foreign concept in my life. I was raised without religion and now converting to Judaism on my own terms.
Taking real estate away from people (planets, continents, etc.) is a common religious practice (ex., Crusades, conquest of indigenous peoples, wars). Thanks for this episode.
I had the exact same type of Bishop interview. I was maybe 15 years old when the Bishop was asking me if I had done explicit things with my non member boyfriend (we didn’t do anything because I was a shy little LDS girl). It was absolutely disgusting, especially because they didn’t believe me. After that traumatic experience, I felt shunned by the leaders in my branch and started going less. It was even worse when I showed people my promise ring at 17 and told everyone I’d get married to a non member. So we got married right when we were both 18 and moved to his home state. I never went back to the church again.
Now I practice normal Christianity but it’s purely personal. I no longer go to a church to practice my religion
When my Grandad died and somebody told me (while I was crying) that it was totally fine because of the Plan of Salvation. I very much felt like yelling and cussing at them, people can believe whatever they want and still be really upset!
The modesty aspect really messed me up and added to my body issues.
I thought Poseidon rules the waters? Seriously though, I haven't heard that before!
Thank you so much for this conversation. I've never been a Mormon although I did study with the missionaries for an extended period of time. I never converted. However my sister is a JW and has been for many years. She's totally convinced that what the Witnesses teach is the absolute truth. She had huge arguments with our mom and dad about her religion and she argued with me about it as well. I still don't get it but this conversation gave me a small understanding of the indoctrination.
I was a Mormon convert but left the church when we going to a vote in my country to allow gay marriage.
My Bishop sent an email to the congregation and demanded that we vote against gay marriage.
That infuriated me because I take MY RIGHT to vote very seriously and no one should demand that I vote a particular way. From that point we no longer attended anything to do with the LDS church.
I grew up as a JW and have studied Mormonism on my own and they are very close to the same religion. Thanks for doing this video comparing them!
I love this podcast combo :D
I love JWs... to troll
Now I myself am a Christian(baptized Catholic but not limited to the Catholic doctrine) and what I used to do when they rang my door was actually to let them in, and hear me out here.
I would let them do their talk but then I do my talk about MY view on religion and they hated it as it was clear that I could not be converted. It was like "No don't leave yet, have some more coffee and let's talk about *insert controversial biblical subject*".
Basically keeping them here for as long as possible because for every minute I did, one of my neighbors did not have to deal with them and that hurts their numbers ;)
Needless to say I am on their blacklist and haven't had them ring my doorbell for years.
This is a great interview!! Btw You guys should start your own podcast haha.
Right?! Their conversation is easy to listen to and they have very complementary styles.
In the 1970s, I had some friends who were 'recovering' Catholics. I wasn't born/raised in the 3 Abrahamic faiths. I thought that identification as 'recovering' was profound. Anyway ... it's good we're chatting about these issues. Having lived in over 30 cultures, I've learned there are Great Truths
1. We are ALL one humanity. We all blink, cough, and can tighten up our muscles. Any woman can get pregnant by any man. Any child can be brought up in any culture, religion, language, or part of the world. We use Distorted Mind Beliefs to deny and suppress this Truth and see ‘Us’ and ‘Other’.
2. We are ALL born naked. Every Woman knows this. We are made to feel shame or unsafe due to Distorted Mind Beliefs and denied the Truth
3. We are ALL born equal because the sun shines on each of us. Distorted Mind Beliefs deny and suppress this Truth.
4. We ALL live on one planet shared with the Commons (Waters, Airs, Soils), All Species, and Each Other. We use Distorted Mind Beliefs as a reason to kill one another, The Commons, and Species.
5. Women carry and birth the Future Generation of Women and Men
6. Women are the First Teachers to the Future Generation of Women and Men
7. When Women do NOT teach the Great Truths, then Women teach Distorted Mind Beliefs.
When I was a kid, in a Mormon house hold. My sister and I would joke that we would die, not bad enough to go to hell so we'd go to ghetto heaven, there's heavenly levels in Mormon doctrine, haha, I was a very young nonbeliever of theology. I was a full fledged atheist by 12. When I was 8 I was baptized, I was crying because I didn't want to be, but the church and my mom spun it as "she's moved by the spirit", wrong! I dipped my toes in many, many religions, fringe beliefs, and various paganism and ultimately found that just being a good human is good enough for me.
I enjoyed this video so much!!