Ex-FLDS Cult Member Explains Miracles Experienced (ft.
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- čas přidán 17. 01. 2024
- People often ask how anyone can believe in a Prophet who's currently in prison. We will hear from ex-FLDS (Fundamentalist Mormon) member, Sam, from @GrowingUpinPolygamy , what his spiritual experiences were like inside the cult. His wife, Melissa, will join us to add her opinions on her spiritual experiences in mainstream Mormonism.
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*Disclaimer: Thanks for joining us at Cults to Consciousness. This storytelling podcast is meant to be for entertainment purposes only and does not substitute for medical advice. We may discuss triggering topics and we ask that you make your personal mental health a priority. Lastly, the opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host.*
There should be a federally mandated logical fallacies course in every high school curriculum including home schooling.
True, but it would never happen there because they don't teach it because they don't care about a law if it contradicts their teaching.
And critical thinking
The government turned a weaponized cold into control, insider trading and politics as a cult... truth is not their focus!
Understanding logical fallacies and critical thinking and evidence based scientific decisions are all much the same.
The government would never back that because then it would expose their lies and manipulations 😂 The only thing that fundamentalists have right is that our government is horribly corrupt
I feel so sad that Sam is separated from his family, who he obviously loves so deeply. It’s just heartbreaking.
I was fighting depression for a number of reasons. One thing I did to help was to quit watching the news. I didn't watch for over 1 year. One evening I flipped it on just in time to see there was a seat belt recall on my Mom's automobile. I went next door and told her and my brother-n-law immediately got up and went to check it. He found the flaw and fixed it. This was atypical behavior for him. Normally he was all about getting to it later. The next morning my mother was involved in an auto accident. The doctors said she would not have survived without the belt. I will always believe that God gave me and my brother-n-law a poke that day.
I love Melissa & Sam. The way they're able to articulate so well about their experiences.
When I look back, what I perceived as a spiritual experience in the beginning of my journey of getting my life back together from substance abuse fueled catastrophe was real to me but for some reason I was hard pressed to attribute it to my involvement with AA. Then because the cult nature of AA , I was gaslit out of the experience entirely. For ten years of subtle mindfuckery I slipped into the dogma and eventually the cognitive dissonance was so much I was forced to escape. I have been deprogramming for a year. Only in hindsight can I understand the trap of cult culture. I am now able to reconnect with my authentic experience rather than the book and dogmatic brainwashing that I was powerless. I know many people won't agree with me that twelve step is a cult but many do that were in a vulnerable state and found themselves love bombed into the realm of so called twelve step recovery. I think I was double predisposed because I also had a Jehovah's witness father who conditioned me in early childhood. So when I found twelve step in a vulnerable state I went full cult. Yuk! I am very blown by my true spiritual experience. The one where the veil was lifted that I was always the best way not some outside entity.
Thank you for sharing. Others have expressed to us the same feelings with AA.
I would have to say theres a difference from the AA of today vs what it was meant to be. Bill W and Dr Bob had no intention of it becoming the organization it is now. It was meant to be a book with a set of instructions that would 100% lead a person to having a spiritual experience, filling their God shaped hole, and therefore no longer needing to self medicate by way of drugs and alcohol. A sponsor was merely someone that brought someone into that process. Nothing more. It was meant for you to go on about your life living by a certain set of guidelines to ensure your spiritual condition stayed at a level in which you didnt need to drink. Of course humans ruin all good things. And have tuned it into what it is today. But make no mistake the book itself, if followed correctly, can and has saved many many people.
@@CultstoConsciousness AA literally saved lives of people I love. YMMV
I felt the same way about Overeaters Anonymous.
I'm not going to succumb to magical thinking to solve my real world problems.
Real miracles happen all the time. I have no idea how or why, but I know they do. Whatever happened was beautiful, and I'm so glad you shared it.
Before "C to C", I thought I basically knew about most things Mormon. I've watched a lot of the documetaries and Sister Wives, I also attended a Mormon ward for a while when I was a teenager. That said, I am constantly amazed by how much more there is to learn! The four of you did an excellent job in this interview. Thank you for all you shared! ❤
Thanks so much, Debby! ❤️ I’m always learning too!
Here is my 2 cents. I really do hope those kids are found. I can't even imagine losing a child. Frankly I don't want to.
I have anti human trafficking stickers that I've stuck to backs of restroom doors and such. A certain company starting with a W and used to stay open 27-7; will not leave them up. I understand it's low-key vandalism. But it's a sticker with a # that could save a human being.
The area I currently live in is Amish dense.
I will continue to mildly vandalize the backs of restroom doors with the sticker. Even if it helps ONE person. 💛 Keep going. You got this. Love to all of you.
It's so interesting to me to learn how differently I was raised as a Christian to see my feelings. I know there's some variation in Christianity but overall, most following orthodox/Biblical (not to be confused with fundamental) Christianity are taught that we cannot always trust our feelings. We are taught that our own hearts can often be deceiving. This is why we are taught to look more at evidence for our faith. That of course, some things go back to faith for 100% of humans because some things can never be proven by scientific method or were not perfectly recorded, but it always is a red flag to me when someone focuses too much on feelings when we know the reality of biology is that feelings can change in the drop of a hat.
As a baptist we were taught to think in this order,
Fact, faith, then feelings.
@@katiefountain2407 yeah I was never told it just like that but totally agree!
The one challenge that comes up for some in the interpretation of facts or deciding what those 'facts' mean. I have many friends who have come to believe Jesus lived and believe that there is historical evidence to much of scripture, etc. But they don't interpret scripture as something they need to follow per say. But anyway... That's another topic! Totally agree it's facts, faith and then feeling. Because the other order can take you down some crazy rabbit holes.
What's the difference in orthodox/biblical and fundamental?
I've never heard of orthodox/biblical and would love to understand that theology, culture and the difference with other Christian sects, especially fundamentalism since you focused on that.
Would this have another more publically known name?
One of the most bothersome things about so many high control, high demand religions for many and to me personally is the religious abuses that have affected so many good people 😢💔 I am sure Sam has had a lot of disentangling to go through , not to mention Melissa and Shelise… don’t ever be afraid to seek out a good therapist who is familiar with religious abuses ❤🤗🤗
Personally, I'm a believer in Nature and Science, and it really irked me when my half-sister praised God for sending a hurricane away from Florida, where we live.
Essentially, she was thanking God for sending the hurricane to other states up the east coast to harm others.
I heard so much similar banter when Hurricane Irma barely touched Puerto Rico but was battering our neighboring islands… it felt cruel and hypocritical. 2 weeks later we were slammed by Maria.
I also heard of a couple that was gardening the day before Maria stating that it wouldn’t hit us bc they prayed and god wouldn’t allow it. I wonder how much damage they got… but it is such a sad topic this I don’t really want to know.
Sam said: "sometimes people confuse spiritual experiences with love". I think love IS a spiritual experience. It is the highest expression of Spirituality because it engages our whole being, physical, mental, spiritual, emotional...
Well said
Ex mormon here. I just love you all so much!!
Apostates unite!❤️
Shout out to his mom. She nursed him back to health, sat by his bedside, I’m sure said all the prayers, etc.
Good job momma ❤
Two adorable couples! I am amazed as always at your clarity of thought and how well you communicate. You are shining examples of good, caring people. Thank you!
Wow, thank you!
I related to so much in this episode. I am finding that healing is available to anyone who believes they can be healed. There is no one religion or talisman that has the "power" to heal. The power is in the individual's belief that they can be healed. It bothers me that groups try to be gatekeepers of something like this that is literally available to all at anytime.
I’m having a spiritual experience listening to Sam talking about his spiritual experience being healed by his father. I’m in my 60s and have wondered what to do with the faith and spiritual stuff from living most of my life in the Church. I think you young folks just solved my problem. I loved Shelise’s story about her mom giving her a blessing. You all are doing great things. Keep going!
As a traditional Roman Catholic I firmly believe that God can perform miracles regardless of our state of mind or whether evil is present. He's God and can do whatever is necessary in anyone's life.
I can't begin to imagine Sam how difficult the transition was from your upbringing to your current life. You are brave!
When you spoke of blessing the home. It brought back memories of my parents. They raised me in the prostant Christian church. The church we attended was the Friends, which most people know as Quackers . But the church now is more your average Christian church. Mom and dad were very fundamental . When they bought a new home when I was 20 and still living at home they had the church elders come over before we moved in to “bless” the home. They walked around the home and yard calling out to God to ride the home of evil. I found this very odd at the time as I had never experienced this before. We had moved into the previous home when I was 2 and have no memories of a blessing. Well years later when my husband and I purchased a home my parents told us we need to have the home blessed. We never did and still live in this home and have raised two daughters in this home. No evil and I still find the home blessing odd. But if it is what you feel you need then you should have it done.
I'm just now watching this - 2/3 of the way through. I was christened Catholic (my dad) but grew up in the Methodist church (my mom) but never could comprehend any of it since the focus was so much on sin. I stopped attending church at age 18 but still wondered what could this God stuff be all about? Then around age 30, I was forced to make some hard decisions - divorce, moving forward with basically nothing and no support. All I knew was to be true to myself, I'm good and I deserve good things - and that's when so-called miracles started to happen in my life. I'm now in my sixties and I rely on miracles and healing - it's commonplace, no church or religion. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and making them readily available. So many people will be helped by this ❤❤❤.
Your upbringing was so similar to mine. Mom was Catholic, dad was southern baptist. I left the church at 17 (when I moved out on my own). At 19 I started dating a Muslim who wasn’t practicing except for fasting during Ramadan and no pork (drank like a fish, didn’t pray or go to the mosque ever). We were together for 16 years until I was 36. Around that time last year I really just started to question if God was real.
Things I started questioning were:
If we praise him for good things, we can also condemn him for bad things since he is all powerful and knowing right? So either he isn’t all knowing or isn’t all powerful. Also, what father would create a hell to send his children to after he created temptation knowing we would sin since he created us? So he isn’t all loving? Do as I say or burn in hell even though I know exactly what you will do- that isn’t free will. Seems like a narcissistic relationship that I just escaped and have no interest in.
So PRECIOUS what Melissa spoke @ approx. 30 min. Thank You C to C for this insightful & inspiring interview. Rich Blessings to ALL
Thank you for always explaining the different groups, acronyms and titles of things. There are so many, I appreciate you taking a second to remind us which is which.
Glad it was helpful!
Love both your channels and love the collabs!
I love you guys!!! Seeing all 4 of you at the same time is the best!! More of these please!!
I love when you collab!!! My favourite videos❤
Great episode as always ❤. I definitely resonate with the idea that seeing the kindness and goodness of people outside your church or religion being a huge factor in one's deconstruction journey. It definitely was for me.
I find FLDS & ex-FLDS accents so fascinating!
They're truly unique to their own cult and not regional, which I find as interesting as the individual experiences of followers and ex-followers of these groups.
God heal today tomorrow and yesterday!
I read Embraced ByThe Light by Betty J. Eadie and Betty had a near death experience where she saw Jesus Christ. Betty asked Christ about religions and Christ said he inspired many church leaders and how spirits are at different levels of spirituality and need different teachings. Christ told Betty that some times a spirit grows spiritually and moves on to a different religion or philosophy when that happens. Love this teaching. Had many spiritual experiences in the LDS faith, but around 30 years of age prayed to God for guidance as I was sick of the hypocrisy I found in church members of the LDS faith. Found mantra meditation and teachings that my feelings are not evil in the book Meditation for Dummies by Stephan Bodian, a former Buddhist monk. Mantra meditation benefited me so much more than going to the LDS curch did. I eventually quit going to the LDS church as I was tired of the LDS church teaching that my feelings were evil.
I love seeing ur spouse on here commenting. Good group of go🎉od folks helping to raise awareness in our world. And being Godly people in our world. Giving a darn about integrity and character ...... it's the glue that holds life together.
God IS love. It is the same.
I do not identify with any religion or structured belief system. Trees, mother earth, the animal and plant kingdoms are a huge part of this. I have had plenty of spiritual experiences immersed in this world surrounded by the unconditional love of the universe
Same
Same
Omg ❤another amazing video . I love ❤️ your channel. I also grew up in the high demand church ⛪️ I hear and understand peoples pain and their stories. I lived everything you guys are talking about ❤😢
Great collaboration by two of my favorite channels
I didn’t know about their channel but glad I do now
I love watching this channel I have always be so intrested in Cults espically FLDS as I am a psychology student and it is crazy I am so glad that you all got away but I know your still healing.
Thanks for this great discussion ! It’s so so so interesting, especially for a never-in who was raised a sometimes-practicing catholic. Going over to Sam and Melissa’s channel now!
Your BUMP!!!! ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Yes, Shelise- you’re absolutely glowing!!!! ❤❤
Watched both interviews and they're really interesting insights. I think that cults crush critical thinking in all its members, but especially children. They have to in order to keep the sheeples in line.
As messed up as the FLDS and the mormon religion seems to be, it sure does produce some top notch wonderful people..generally they are the people who leave, but the morals, the solid foundation they are given even in such a high demand religion turns out some beautiful souls. You made me cry Sam..you're such a wonderful human being
To me it really struck me when Sam said that people often confuse love and the spirit and I truly believe that LOVE IS THE SPIRIT 🥹💗 the true essence of God is love aside from any religious beliefs or orientation Love is the spirit ♾️💗
So so interesting. In Mormon context they are very separate. Because with that logic, making love before marriage and feeling intense feelings of love with a partner would be seen as holy. But they can’t have both be true at the same time so they demonize sex until marriage and say it’s only lust and temptation from the devil.
Please consider a presentation on the practice of "prayer work" and it's history. Lori Vallow Daybell practiced it as a form of manipulation and an excuse to commit murder. I know someone who is currently practicing it and it is a manipulation attempt
What I take from some of your spiritual experiences is the essence of belief and faith as a core component of how humans function. Sam believed in his father and his god, and whatever that does in our bodies is real and visceral!!! To me it looks like the miraculously creative force of nature. Of course one can't think away disease, but mentality, hope, and faith can absolutely be relevant factors in healing and fighting disease. It would make sense that many people of all faiths can share their experiences of spirit in their health journey. As someone from a more atheistic community, I find this perspective is often dismissed without merit because of an intellectual disdain for religion. I'm so happy you folks are having these conversations and fleshing out the nuance and misunderstanding.
Dr emoto published work with human intentions and emotions effect on water structure remarkable and been replicated and strengthen many times always with same conclusion.
One thing I have learned is that miracles will happen when God makes them happen. It does not matter the place, time, or people. He can use who He wants to. My old church taught that you had to have all the faith, anointing, and no doubt in order for God to move. The truth is that God can use a mule if He wants to, it doesn't mean that these leaders are more Holy than the rest
What is the difference between a spiritual experience and an emotional experience?
Dude says "mansioned" instead of "mentioned." No other notes, great episode!
These sorts of things definitely fall under
"spiritual ab-se".
As for why people believe in people like Warren Jeffs, here’s an analogy: There is overwhelming proof that the 2020 US presidential election was not stolen. But because one person says it was, without any proof, almost half our country believes it to be true. This is no different from religions.
The Catholic Church also does these blessings: your home, vehicles, pets, etc.
You can never go wrong with Sam and Melissa as guests.
You're kind of watering down the evil and manipulation of Warren using this analogy. I don't particularly adhere to the stolen narrative, but It's not a strong analogy because no one is telling anyone 'if you do believe it was not stolen' you're going to hell. Or 'if you don't believe it was stolen' you are going to hell. It's also not just 1 person. It was stated on both sides by many intelligent people and 'evidence' was presented to 'prove' and 'disprove.' You also have a huge, almost 50/50 split on political issues, so not the same FLDS indoctrination. I would say flat earthers are more similar in that majority of the world doesn't believe that but they continue to go back to a few points of their own 'evidence' to support their theory.
They’re such a sweet couple! They have worked so hard to support one another, and it shows.
False. California, Oregon and Washington stopped polling very early in the day and supported Biden before Eastern and Mid west states stopped polling. There are many other examples. If all votes count, then Western states should not stop the polls with 30% in so that Biden is supported. The fact that Americans are told that questioning election results makes them a conspiracy theorist shows cult like thinking. We are told other countries have corrupt elections and that America does not. Without checks and balances and truthful investigations, there is no proof of any election being truthful.
@@pacingtiger8750 I just proved my point. The western states did not stop polling early, the locations stayed open all day for people to vote. Facts matter, which is why in cults, they try to limit the truths.
I do believe God still heals today and your father called upon God so entirely possible. I also believe the mind body connection is strong and your faith in your father’s ability was very strong.
Every time I hear about Rulon I'm like 🤔 dang, he had so much potential to be awesome
I am new to your channel. I love Sam and Melissa and love your video with them so followed yours as well. Bit of a random question-Can I ask why you and your husband film in separate rooms? Do you do not record together in the same place? Hope it's ok to ask
Hi! Welcome to C2C! We are in the same room but the background is different 😁 that was originally going to be his set for a different CZcams channel.
@@CultstoConsciousness thank you so much for replying! I appreciate it x
Miracles can and do happen to many people. But don’t give credit to the “church “. Give the credit to your higher power!
I’m not ashamed to admit that I’ve seen Taylor when she was on tour with Rascal Flatts back in ‘08😅 I still like her ❤❤ and I would totally go to watch her in concert ❤ I’ve also seen Carrie Underwood and Tim McGraw is on my wish list 😊😊 and Luke Bryan 😅😅❤
Hi! Thank you for your work. I usually listent on spotify, but I don't see the new episodes. Are you no longer posting on spotify? The last episode I get is the one titled Abandone with 20+ kids. Is it just me, or is there anyone else having the same problem? Thank you!
Hi! We went out of town and haven’t been able to post to the audio world yet. Thanks for your patience. We also don’t post the live streams on audio. Just the regular interviews.
@@CultstoConsciousness Thank you for taking the time to reply! I just wanted to warn you in case there had been any issue. Take your time!
I watch these videos and I am starting to wonder if one can tell if a person grew up in a "happy home" or "unhappy home" situation based on their personality... lots of mostly upbeat people for the most part have something positive in their background.
I know this statement does not relate to this video but I really wanted to make a suggestion for a couple of future interviews. The is a newly exposed cult called twin flames universe where alot of people have had to escape...also another spiritual cult with a couple named Eldora and Simone where a few people have had their lives ruined they have shared a few videos about it...but it would be awesome for you to interview some of the people who have been left starting totally new lives...
We have reached out to multiple people from the doc and none of them got back to us 😬
My personal belief is that healings come from invoking belief & faith in Jesus as our Savior (any religion)…. And the trails we face or suffer is due to man’s exercise of free will, from cancer, murder, etc.
Dr Joe Dispenza has several books now about the brain science behind spontaneous healings and the placebo effect. Our minds are so much more powerful than we give credit.
Side note......you look FANTASTIC!
🥰🙏
I'm an ex-believer since my experience does not fit my worldview, but I remain open. Here is what I would say though, regarding "spiritual experiences" - yes, they could be be coincidences - BUT - the Bible says, "If you have faith the size of a mustard seed..."which, as we know, is the smallest seed on earth. Don't limit what God can do - just because it's a cult church or cult leader - doesn't mean God can't work through them. God is God, man is man. (Says the budding atheist. LMAO) XxoO
I wonder what on the list those who were asking had done...
Although those experiences doesn't mean that it wasn't a cuilt. I do truly believe they are. I do believe God will heal or help you though things in life
So those experiences you had could just be showing you God is real. 😊
I’m a Christian so of course I believe God exists and He can use anyone and anything. Just because something good comes from a church doesn’t mean there isn’t bad in it sometimes.
Im LDS
24:20 ❤❤❤
I can totally see my pregnancy brain in you. It is hillarious and so cute😊
🥴🫠
Miracles occur because God wills to reach out to all souls in love, no matter how heretical their beliefs. God allows us to be challenged to grow and strengthen since He knows what you will need in the future and must get you to the level you'll need to be. He has an active will (miracles and strengthening people in virtue by grace) and a passive will (permitting challenges). Although He does have more important concerns, He cares about our keys because He shows his love by helping us even in small ways. He tries hard to ensure each of us dies in union with him. He cares about the death of the poor and suffering like he did Lazarus in the parable.
I have been healed instantly from strep throat. I could barely talk and a friend of mine took authority and prayed over it in the name of Jesus. My ears popped , my throat was clear and I was healed immediately! Faith is not confined to the person praying. Jesus Christ heals whom he chooses to when he chooses;
This is a really good video. I'm not FLDS like Sam was. But I do know it is possible to cast out evil spirits. Jesus did it when he was here on earth.
Sam don't be ashamed he is too cute with his pop girl influence
Approx 15:00
Sam, I was indoctrinated and heavily raised Catholic
Please give yourself grace for feeling peace and power and respect for Rulon Jeffs, specifically, and even Warren at first
Rulon was far from perfect, and perhaps looks better thanks to Warren & Brigham etc, but from what I've learned, Rulon was different in a lot of positive ways, plus you were raised in this by some good people - your mom and dad and most moms sound like good hearted people at their core.
Like I said I was heavily raised Catholic and in retrospect it often feels very "witchy"
Do you ever feel like "rededication" etc was spell work?
24:00 Sam please don't feel afraid to cry! Or take a break! We appreciate your vulnerability!
I have come to so much peace about my Catholic upbringing and the many positives and miracles I experienced, but it's still so heavy and beautiful and confusing and awesome and hurtful and difficult and beautiful.
I had many people pray over my daughter.. promising she would live.. she died, and I suffered a miscarriage after that. Trust me I blamed God, and my 'beliefs' as a TBM.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. As a mother, it just breaks my heart. Sending you all the love and healing.
So sorry that this happened. Sending love and strength to you x
I’m so sorry. ♥️ Sending you lots of love.
My deepest condolences. I understand; my nephew died of cancer at age 9; I have 7 babies in Heaven. I still believe in Jesus 🙏
The truth is a lot of those situations simply come down to luck and medical care. I'm sure all parents of seriously ill children pray just as hard as eachother that their child will get better, but it's just not possible in every case. Nothing to do with how much someone prayed.
Sam has the most beautiful eyes.
You can imagine God as this enormous tree that has the trunk and some main strong branches. Connected to these branches is all the other branches going forth out of the "God" part of the tree. That connection looks different for every branch that resembles us.
We are part of that connection with God only by being His children and His love for us. Nevermind our spiritual belief system or church we attent. Some branches bare fruit and some are barren some looks dead and dont even have leaves. God's grace extend to each and every person on earth whether you want it or not. Even Satanists is part of the tree. When it comes to these tipes of miracles it is still God that extend it to you nevermind your religious believes. The moment you accept the miracle you open up that exact point where you are connected to the God-branch. God's love is beautiful.
My spiritual experiences in my life had and has nothing to do with religion.
Do not under value guidance re: car keys & parking spots
That faith healing is suspect. Classically what the boy has been told is that he doesn’t have the right to be ill and so has been able to ascend to the lie that he was well. I am just going to bet that a very real doctor would have examine the kid and not agreed that he had been “healed”. He just had a fancy guilt trip.
Casting out demons in Jesus name is 1000000% real I’ve experienced it my own self
Casting out demons is definitely real, I have seen it myself. It's the demons that are not real. 😏
Have you ever hurd of world of faith. It church cult host bye Jane willy we have base here in Rutherfordton County NC
#hilaryduff needs to meet sam 😂😂
Agreed! 😜
You can't base truth on feelings.
Religious experiences from someone like Warren Jeffs make me think of Moses' miracles vs the magicians for Pharoah. Those were knock off miracles with the power of Satan, not God.
Lmaooo Hilary Duff
I love you guys
Melissa who was your celerity crush??
Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
22:49 hahaha cleanse out Hilary Duff.
Spiritual experiences are real to the person, but it's still just chemicals in the brain.
God told the Israelites to remember what HE did. Churches are created by people and their doctrines are created by people.Read the Bible for real truth!
He was on evil lives here I think.