What Was the Biggest Modern NBA Draft Mistake? | The Bill Simmons Podcast
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2022
- The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo discuss the Minnesota Timberwolves’ decision to pass on Steph Curry twice in the 2009 NBA draft and debate whether it is the worst draft mistake of the 21st century.
Listen to the full episode on Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/6SZP...
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I don't always agree with you bill but I have to admit, the ideas and questions you guys talk about is freah and creative
Yup, like him or not, one of the best in the business
I am a Timberwolves fan and love Steph.. loved him all the way back at Davidson. In a way I am glad we didn’t take him because I am sure we would have screwed it up anyhow.
I think the Knicks would have messed it up too
Timberwolves not really know. For developing talent and he was injury prone they probably wouldn’t have been patient with him anyways
I agree people forget that it took steph some time in golden state before he even started. Monta Ellis was that guy in Golden state and fans wanted to get rid of curry and keep Ellis at the time. Golden state had to get rid of ellis and also draft klay and Draymond. Without them steph would probably still be a all star player but he wouldn't be the player that he became in golden state. Golden state also getting Mark Jackson was a huge part of Curry's success early in his career. Franchises like the knicks and twolves would of found a way to screw something up.
@@MrRdsmasterful I'm a Knicks fan and I agree with this statement. I can easily see them get impatient or mistreat his injuries. Either that or trade him for garbaggio.
Lot you're not your team's fans. You'd probably take 50% Steph than anything you've drafted.
Respect for remembering those Ricky Rubio days.
He's a top5 under 18-years-old of all time.
His vision, passing, maturity and knowledge of the game at 17 is almost never reached by players of any age. As an offense director and as a help defender, elite.
His torn ACL after 40 games was a tragedy.
Then a couple of years later he had one of the worst sprained ankles in the last 20 years.
Now, another torn ACL.
Utah, Phoenix and Cleveland have seen great improvements in culture with him in the team.
Very underrated player just because he's not the 2010s guard: 24-7-5 with lots of threes.
Sac/Phx not picking Luka
Portland not picking CP3 cause they had Sebastian Telfair LMAO
Gotta give Bill credit. He was Day 1 to go with Luka over everybody in that draft.
The suns didn’t miss the mark. Sac did. Ayton still is a great talent and helped the suns get to their first finals in 3 decades and win the most games in franchise history. The suns were totally fine picking ayton. Sacramento messed up.
@@TheIcemanthomas That’s a lot of coping. Luka and Book would’ve formed the best young duo in the league for years to come. DA has been substantially worse, And if he ends up leaving it will look like even more of a massive failure.
Ayton left.
Oden over kd is just sad but oden was in the college finals and candidate for player of the year and young....darko over d wade is the biggest one for me
In my lifetime Darko over Melo/Wade was the worst by a mile! UNTIL my Kings ignored Luka for… forget it you don’t know him 🤦♂️
Over Bosh also. 3 Hall of Famers right after Darko
2003 NBA Draft is like the 1989 NFL draft where the bust went #2 (Tony Mandarich), then #1 Aikman, #3 Barry Sanders, #4 Derrick Thomas, #5 Deion all went to the HOF.
@@timothyd1496 🤦♂️
@@KTF0 good call
As a Pistons fan I'll still defend that pick. It made sense at the time. I always hated Melo so I wanted Wade (or Bosh) but at the time it was basically Melo or Darko. I don't think we win a title if we drafted Melo because Tayshaun wouldn't have played. It looks awful in hindsight but it wasn't awful in the moment. Darko was legitimately talented. He just didn't really want it. Flynn was a reach at the time and Bagley over Luka was awful in the moment as well.
Bill is right, Rubio was a floor general with international experience. The Flynn pick was so bad because I remember they had to wait on Rubio and Curry totally could have played with Rubio.
Curry changed the game
yeah totally!
I remember as a Warriors fan I loved Curry but the guy I really wanted to fall was Rubio- in part because i thought he could play with Ellis/anyone..... But I just thought Wolves would take Rubio and Curry because it made complete sense!
That was the worst part. They took Rubio and it was like oh perfect. Now take Steph cause can Ricky can guard SG and play point and Steph can play SG and guard PG. Then they took Flynn who was such a reach. I didn't understand why he was even in contention to be a lottery pick. I was like he's not a real PG and he can't shoot. Wtf does anyone want him before 15.
lol rookie Rubio and Curry would give up 100 perimeter points a game
@@michaelahurt No way was Rubio guarding SG's. Even if 6'4" he was nowhere near big or strong enough at 180lbs. Even Flynn had 15 pounds on him
the biggest mistake ever is still Bowie over MJ ...but in the 21 century it has to be not picking Luka at no.1 ...3 teams totally messed up and the funny thing is the team that drafted Luka and then traded for TY was the team that messed up the least...but not drafting a 19 year old who is MVP of the 2nd best league of the world and won the chip as the best player is just extremely dumb
Nah it’s the curry pick period. Reason why is because they literally had back to back options to draft curry and didn’t. While the bowie mj situation was a fuck up u gotta remember that was the 80’s and nba franchises were still very much centered around big men. Plus in their defense, they already had drexler who had a very similar skill set to jordan and nobody knew what jordan would become.
@@akiouchiha8657 people should have seen that Luka was a once in a decade talent...Bron dominated in HS and people called him the chosen one...Luka dominated the Euroleague and GM's passed on him...just arrogance...the Suns hired his coach from the National Team who he won the Eurobasket with and then did not pick him...Divac did not pick him because he did not like his dad...Curry wasn't a sure shot Allstar coming from college but not seeing Luka's talent should have been impossible...And Portland should have just played the Glide at SF and enough people knew Jordan was an insane talent at the time...picking a position is always a mistake
@@akiouchiha8657 time will tell
luka's thing was he was an international player, the ones before him weren't translating properly like wiggins, rubio, porzingis and many other top10 picks. So teams were hesitant to not pick him at #1. Trae young and ayton are still all star calibre players so it's not like a bust vs mvp choice for teams.
@@kaospat4173 Luka is at least understandable because of his lack of explosiveness. So u could at least make the argument. And multiple teams did. The Curry pick was indefensible in real time. Like it was incredibly stupid then and it is imo the worst draft decision in the history of the NBA even over the Sam Bowie pick.
Top 10 Worst Draft Mistakes (since 2000, in my opinion)
1) 2009 Wolves draft Flynn and Rubio over Steph: It really doesn't get much worse than this, granted Rubio was a really talented player, but Steph is a future Hall of Famer that you passed on twice
2) 2018 Kings select Bagley over Luka: Again, this one is brutal and the major reason the Kings likely passed on Luka was because they had just drafted Fox the year before. But given that just 2 drafts later, you take another guard in Tyrese Haliburton and then another one in Davion Mitchell the year after, means you're acknowledging the fact that you royally fucked up by not taking a guy who is a future Hall of Famer when it's all said and done
3) 2003 Pistons pick Darko over 3 Hall of Famers: This one needs no explanation honestly.
4) 2011 Pacers draft Kawhi Leonard, but then trade him away to San Antonio for George Hill: This move probably set in motion the future implosion of the Paul George-Pacers. Pacers could've had an early version of the Clippers with a PG-Kawhi duo
5) 2014 Bucks take Jabari Parker over Joel Embiid: I understand there were injury concerns with Embiid's foot, and rightfully so, given he missed his first two seasons. However, given than Jabari tore his ACL twice while in Milwaukee, it really didn't make any difference. The Bucks could've ended up with the best frontcourt the league likely would've ever seen since Sampson/Olajuwon or Duncan/Robinson with Embiid and Giannis. The only reason the Cavs, who had the first pick, aren't here over the Bucks is because they used Wiggins to get Kevin Love, and won a championship with him.
6) 2016 Wolves draft Kris Dunn over Jamal Murray: I'm not gonna explain this one much either because we all know how bad Dunn is. However, the only saving grace is that Minnesota got out from under their mistake a year later by trading him for Jimmy Butler
7) 2017 Sixers trade up to #1 overall, but select Markelle Fultz over Jayson Tatum: It's been reported for years since this that Boston would've likely taken Tatum at #1 had Philly not moved up, but Philly really fumbled the bag by taking Fultz over him. And it's really not that Fultz is a bad player or a bust, he's not, people label him as that because he was the top pick, but he's actually a solid player in Orlando that had terrible management in Philly that really botched his development, and he's had some major injuries, such as tearing his ACL early into his potential breakout season. But Tatum is just that much better and the key piece in helping Boston get to the NBA Finals.
8) 2007 Blazers take Greg Oden over Kevin Durant: All I have to say is imagine a big 3 of Roy, Aldridge, and KD.
9) 2013/2017 Nuggets draft Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell, but trade both to Utah: The Rudy Gobert decision makes more sense now, given that Denver landed Jokic a year later in 2014, however I had to put this one on the list given the sheer coincidence that these two players made up the core group that made the Jazz a playoff contender for 5 years in the West, and came close to knocking them out in the bubble playoffs 2 years ago. And also because even though the Gobert trade makes sense now, I'm surely positive the Nuggets could use a guy like Donovan Mitchell in the backcourt with Jamal Murray, which not to mention were dropping 50 against each other in that aforementioned playoff series. Life really does come full circle.
10) 2011 Clippers trade away Kyrie Irving for Mo Williams and Jamario Moon: Before anyone jumps the gun, I know the Clippers did not technically draft Kyrie, however, it was their pick that the Cavs used to draft him. I couldn't really think of any other draft day mistakes to put here, I could've put a lot of the 2nd round picks, like Middleton, Draymond, and Jokic, who've all turned out to be really good, but that would be an easy cop out because every single team passed on them. And I considered Lillard sliding to 6th in 2012, or Giannis slipping to 15th in 2013, but I didn't really know who to blame for that when two or more teams passed on them both. But either way, this one takes the cake. Given that the Clippers traded for Chris Paul just a few months later maybe makes this one a little bit more forgettable, but either way you slice it, the Clippers were straight up robbed by the Cavs for a pick that ultimately netted them back Lebron 3 years later. And also it's fun to think about the possibility of a CP3/Kyrie/Blake Griffin big 3.
Oden over kd is top 5 and darko is top 2...worse than luka...the pistons had a dynasty with wade or melo...the kings wouldn't...
@@razkable It wasn't in order
Bucks trading Nowitzki for Tractor Traylor still hurts
The thing about drafting players is that it's literally IMPOSSIBLE to tell how players will shake out in the NBA. There are just sooooo many factors that can affect how good/bad a player will become in the NBA. Like, who knew that a second-rounder could become an MVP? Who knew that a #1 pick could become a bust? If you could predict that, you'd be a very wealthy person and my Bulls would need to utilize your services because it's soooo hard to predict!!!
Agreed, however, people are paid to do this and some people do their job worse than others and I'm giving it to Minnesota! You wanted a PG, you drafted 2 of them, and the one you DIDN'T go after is now arguably a top 10 player. It's like when the nets drafted for Kerry Kittles and missed out on Nash AND Kobe
@@kidkouga92 honestly how much is it on them that they couldn't develop those players. Too many players labeled as busts when they were selected by bad teams. I honestly only consider a player a bust if they couldn't develop under a good organization
@@kidkouga92 Kobe was never going anywhere but la. Agent were really impowered during that era and his agent confirmed he was never going to play for anyone but Lakers. So many players went to Europe when they didn't want to play for a certain team that teams were holding onto draft rights of players that won't join their organization. It happens less now but back then it was a real possibility
well some picks are less impossible to figure out than others. like when Luka was a 6'7" scorer and passer MVP in the second best league in the world at 19
@@disward1832 To your point on Kobe and Arn Tellem trying to get him to LA, Curry also tried to force his way to NY by not working out for Minnesota. That could easily influence a decision not to draft him amongst all those guards who were meant to have star potential
The johnny Flynn thing was weird because ty Lawson was in that draft and he was everything johnny Flynn was and more. I have to assume the off court stuff was a factor. Syracuse had like a triple overtime big east tournament game where Flynn scored a butch and people gushed over his leadership while Lawson led a team to a championship
I remember reading a story about how he thought he was supposed to grow taller but an accident he had stopped his growth. he mentioned his exceptionally large hands and feet as evidence. It was just weird. Lol.
Flynn injury destroyed his career
Funny thing is Lawson would’ve made a ton sense for the T’Wolves .
Lawson had a ton of talent on his team compared to Flynn. He had Danny Green, Wayne Ellington (Final Four MOP), Tyler Hanborough (08 college player of the year) + Ed Davis and Dijon Thompson who I thought was going to be one of their 6 NBA players.
Flynn was also more athletic than Lawson, while also being a year younger than both Lawson and Curry for what it's worth.
Thing is MN didn't have a bench, a PG or a SG for that matter. Rubio next to curry or one of them off the bench alongside Kevin Love that team would have worked..curry and love to space the floor Rubio to operate the offense drive and kick out to love/curry that would have been a very hard to guard team
Idk even care about passing on Curry -- although he was the obvious guy to pair with Rubio -- but taking Jonny Flynn was a horrendous pick in real time.
Bro, you're thinking of Cavs' Kevin Love. Minnesota KLove wasn't spacing shit, he made the paint his kingdom. Steph + KLove would wouldve been fantastic, harder for Rubio to orchestrate if he's stuck in the mid range. At least in my opinion
Love wasnt the same floor spacer on Minnesota that he later became with the Cavs. Love was a in the paint 25/15 guy
@@WheresWaldo05 That's not true. His last year in Minn he was 38% on 6.6 attempts and 37% on 5.1 in 2011-12. By contrast his first three years with LeBron he was 37 on 5.2; 36 on 5.7; 37 on 6.5 so basically exactly the same
@@michaelahurt Look up each of his Minnesota seasons.
As a portland fan, everyone talks about Oden and Bowie, but that cp3 one always hurt me
Everybody thought Rubio had LaMelo's upside. Everybody. But yeah, following that up with Flynn... woof
If you thought that you don’t know shit about basketball
LaMelo is a weird comparison, not even close to being the same player. LaMelo is a goofy kid hurling up 30ft 3 pointers like hes steph curry. A product of AAU/American development with no college. Rubio played with grown men in the Olympics, a game like Jason Kidd and was polished. That pick, as Bill Simmons said, was justified. At the time. He goes to a horrible franchise, gets hurt, isnt the same.
Thank you bill always good job by you
100% agree. I remember watching Curry take Davidson to the Elite 8 and was enamored by his shooting. Even back then it was crazy to take Flynn over Curry.
It’s really wasn’t Curry play style vs Flynn play style
Flynn was getting pro comps to Damon Stoudamire as explosive Fast guard (in class with other fast guards Jennings / Lawson) most NBA-ready of all the point guards in this draft
Curry was get pro comps to Mike Bibby / Steve Kerr who was being drafted as undersized SG who was seen as liability on defense,
Relative easy to see other NBA players who were like Flynn fast point guard , while not at the time for curry as we see every draft GM pick player more easily projectable instead of picking player who more unknown
@@johnnobles6011 Sure, I'm not trying to say that Flynn wasn't highly regarded, but they just drafted a point guard who was that NBA-ready guy to run the offense. Drafting Curry to go along side him as a SG would have made more sense. At least it did for me at the time.
@@Em4gdn1m agree with you, especially after reading many teams preferred curry as SG over PG at draft time - all I was trying to say was it wasn’t some crazy reach drafting Flynn - Curry would have made more sense to pair with Rubio (especially with Rubio weaknesses at time)
I still don't think it was seen as crazy because of what Flynn was seen as listed above. Factor in Curry didn't want to play SG for Minnesota. He wanted to be the Knicks point guard thats why he refused to do a workout in MN.
Too many people just use hindsight when assessing these mistakes without knowing facts of the draft.
Pistons not taking Melo
Yeah Melo has won a lot of rings. They messed up.
@@retrojoe8434 Melo would’ve extended their window. Don’t forget they passed up Wade, Melo and Bosh for Darko 😂😂🦝
Nah I stand by that. I'd rather have had Darko than Melo. But Bosh or Wade would've been nice
@@michaelahurt Melo on tht Pistons team would have won at least one more ship after than one they did in 04
No. Then they might not get Rasheed at the trade deadline and who knows what would have been. If Horry wasn't left open they might be back to back champions(Pop and TD said that '05 series was their toughest chip ever),so i'm happy with my hometown bust Darko xD
Minnesota wanted Curry, but from an interview that I saw Curry told Minnesota that he would not like to play with them before the draft.
Darko over Carmelo and Bosh but not WADE???
Pistons already had their backcourt. It was forwards they needed and they'd get one mid season to complete their team. Not picking Melo or Bosh cause they had Prince was probably the draft mistake longterm.
@@rubaiyat300 They could have more easily decided between Wade or Hamilton off the bench as 6th man than fit Bosh with both Wallace’s. Also bear in mind Wade is way higher on the all time list than Bosh or Carmelo. Him on that pistons team would have been an absolute dynasty
@@gators9570 I don't think anyone in 2003 had Wade over Melo on their draft boards. Melo was bigger, younger, probably seen as less of an injury risk, and he just pulled off one of the all-time great freshmen seasons in NCAA history. Wade ended up being the second best player in the draft, but I don't think anyone blames anyone for wanting Melo over Wade.
Hindsight is 20/20. Wade was not on anybodys board at 2.
@@gators9570 Sheed wasn’t even on the team at the time
Minesotta drafting Rubio at 5 wasn't the disaster because he was literally seen as someone who could be one of the best point guards of all. But taking Johnny Flynn at 6 when Curry was still on the board was inexcusable even at the time.
Hindsight is always 20/20
💯
Unmentioned here is MN only got that 5th pick because the Wizards dealt it to them for Randy Foye and Mike Miller in a deal that basically got them nothing because they completely imploded
Kerr didn't plan for Steph as the future of the Warriors. His plan for success was more on passing and cutting and small ball offense, everyone being 6'6 to 6'9 and switching on defense (quite a new thing in 2016).
Kerronto Raptors?
When Kerr was the Suns GM, he wanted to trade Amare Stoudamire for Curry and Stephen Jackson I believe during rhe draft or shortly after.. Glad the Warriors turned down that offer.
When Curry was drafted, Kerr wouldn't become the coach of the Warriors for another 5 years
Can y’all please just post the entire video of the pod? Would get so many views.
Marvin Bagley over Luka. Or trading Robert Tractor Trailer for Dirk Nowitski
Anthony Bennett and its not even a discussion. How any other player can be mentioned is beyond me
Who would you have take tho draft class at the top 5-10 wasn’t strong at all
Dumb take. There wasn’t a single clear #1. That year had the worst class in decades tbh
@@sslaw6 Bennett was projected to be 8th. Nerlans Noel and Ben Maclemore were the top guys at the time. Either wouldve had an impact on that young Cleveland team that would go on to become the 9th seed that year
This isn’t as bad because everyone in the world was confused about who was the best prospect. There was no real draft order or consensus pick. It was just a blessing Giannis developed over many years.
@@sslaw6 maybe the worst draft of all time.
The Kings passing up Jaren Jackson Jr. to draft Marvin Bagley III is legendary LOL
Philly trading up to 1 to get fultz and give up tatum has to be there
Ya that’s a good one. Trading UP for that, ouch.
The Oden over KD pick by Portland was far more terrible. Of course many will say this is hindsight 20/20 but that decision was clearly a mistake the very moment it happened. I remember KD was a scoring machine at Texas and yet for some reason the Blazers took Oden just cause he was the best a big man available.
What makes that Oden pick worse is that they already had Aldridge and Zach Randolph.
College bball success isn't always indicative on nba success. Also Physical stats like height and wingspan is something a player can't really improve unless by some miracle growth spurt.
@@disward1832 KD is also a big guy.
@@disward1832 yeah but KD is close to 7ft tall and it’s not like he was shooting just ok. He was a machine in college. So yeah I would understand if KD was like 6’3” but he’s pretty much the same height as Oden.
The idea was that they had LA at the 4, Roy in the backcourt with a supporting cast of Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake, Rudy Fernandez and Ghostface Pryzbilla. Rudy's stock at the time was super high. The idea that a dominant Center to clean up in the paint and take the pressure off of LA and Roy was tantalizing and it was viewed as a need instead of taking the best guy and figuring it out.
My Wolves also took Shabazz Muhammad one pick before Giannis. People will say “but nobody knew what Giannis would become. True, but I still remember wanting him badly and being sad we took Shabazz instead.
2016 was a big draft night for Boston with seven picks. They struck gold with Jaylen Brown at #3 (at the time, they were the worst three-point shooting team in the league and could have taken Buddy Hield). However, they struck out on all the rest. They had four picks between 16-35 and took a bunch of nobodies. Guys they could have had included: Caris LaVert, Malik Beasley, Pascal Siakam, DeJaunte Murray, Malcolm Brogdon, and Ivica Zubac.
Who would have been the best of those four to have in their team?
@@fortynights1513 Siakam would be interesting to team up with the Jay's, giving them elite two-way wings at SG, SF, PF with Horford at center (They had quite the list of PG's over the next few years with a combo of Smart, Rozier, Thomas, Kyrie, and Kemba, so who knows how that would have played out). My guess is that one of these wings would have been offered for Kawhi or Davis when they demanded trades and there's a chance Hayward would not have signed with them.
Had they drafted Brogdon, I'm guessing either he or Smart would have been traded eventually, much like this offseason played out!
You can argue that a 25% success rate isn't great, but considering Brown is at worst a top 3 player in the 2016 draft (I think you can have a debate with between his and Siakim, maybe throw Sabonis as a dark horse) it's hardly a whiff.
My 2 favorites
Mayo-Love trade has to be up there in hindsight
The Darko pick wasn't too bad. He got screwed because Larry Brown is a coach that plays veterans over rookies and his Pistons were championship contenders. There was no way Melo, Bosh or Wade were developing into the players they ended up being had they been drafted #2. They would've just ended up being the human victory cigars that Darko became known as.
What about Hasheem Thabeet? When they had Gasol after averaging a double double as a rookie and being MVP in Spain.
They mentioned him in the video - he had a high ceiling as a Mutombo-like shot blocker, but was ultimately a bust. Their point was that MN messed up because they drafted not one, but TWO PG's in a row ahead of Curry.
The biggest draft mistake is how they determine the order of the draft
Why? Because the NBA doesn't want you to be able to tank and guarantee the 1st pick?
Which part, the lotto or giving priority to bad teams? I hate the idea of tanking, but I also think it's imperative that teams that are in bad situations have way to improve.
What would you suggest?
@@ryansproviero i personally would suggest equal percentage of getting the first pick for every team not in the playoffs, that would eliminate tanking cuz theres no benefit to tank at that point
@@fluffyninja28 Then you'd have the back end of the play-in and playoff teams tanking to get into the lottery. Teams good enough to lose in the 1st round might view the balanced lottery as a much better option. It's a tough problem to fix.
My idea revolves around giving the worst teams access to going over the cap a certain amount free of luxury tax penalties. My thinking is a bad team needs veterans to stabilize not 19 y/o kids that need time to develop.
The Rubio pick was defensible. Why, if they wanted another guard, did they take Flynn over Curry?
Looking at some former players' comments about T-Wolves management, Steph dodged a bullet...twice
Yeah, people forget about the injury issues he had early on. The Warriors managed those well; I doubt the Wolves would have done so. So, I don’t know if Steph on the Wolves is the same player as Steph on the Warriors.
@@Vaughndaleoulaw pretty sure if you look at wiggins, you can easily see that timberwolves development and staff were a mess under glen taylor
Curry is the one that changed the game to be more like him. That’s how good he is
Gotta be Darko in 03. You add Wade or Melo to those pistons and they win 3-4 chips
I mean...Cleveland taking Anthony Bennett over Giannis stands out to me.
Nobody really knew about what Giannis was really capable of except the Bucks because they had an insider in Greece. Also 12 other teams passed on Giannis
Maybe not the biggest mistake, but in 2018, the Knicks took Kevin Knox - the next three picks were Mikal Bridges, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, and Miles Bridges.
Anthony Bennett going number one overall there isn’t any other answer
Idgaf
Love how your mind works talking hoops Bill
As a Sixers fan, the Fultz miss was incredibly difficult to stomach, but that ultra-freak condition/injury wasn't anybody's fault, so that's not too fair.
only one player before i think in the NBA even had the yips.
It wasn't just that they took Fultz ... they traded up with Boston to do it.
Basically, that trade looks worse than what happened in "Hustle".
@@Coyotek4 A nearly career-ending condition surfaced just months after he was drafted. He was the unanimous #1 overall pick at the time of selection. If he's ever able to physically recover, there's no denying the talent.
trading up to get fultz when you could have had tatum and romeo langford has to be mentioned here.
Don't think Celtics would have made the trade if Sixers were targeting Tatum
Because Tatum ended up being better or the thought process was bad?
The fact Philly telegraphed their hand and then flinched was front office malpractice. I LOVED Fultz and thought he was clearly the best player in that draft, but even I thought that was dumb because Fultz wasn't *that* much better than Tatum. (Also how tf do you not know Boston loved Tatum? It's literally part of your job to know who other teams like.)
But I really don't like the 20/20 hindsight arguments. I think to be the worst pick you have to know in the moment it's a trainwreck and THEN it is actually 100 times worse than you thought. Bowie/Jordan. Oden/KD. Bagley/Luka. Flynn/Curry.
@@michaelahurt if that’s the case then bowie over jordan needs to be taken off the list because portland wasn’t about to draft jordan when they already had clyde drexler
@@visno That pick had less to do with having Clyde specifically (who played all of 17 minutes per game the year before) and more to do with Portland not having a true center.
People *were* writing at the time that it was a mistake and a reach and that Bowie shouldn't go #2 and was too much of a risk. (Just like they did with Oden.) Although given that they had Kiki Vandeweghe and Jim Paxson (plus Clyde) coming off a 48 win team they might have taken Perkins before MJ anyway. But the fact they never seriously at MJ and predetermined they were taking a center is criminal.
My thing with Fultz is it was just such a fluke what happened to him. No one could have possibly predicated that. It's *only* with hindsight that Fultz over Tatum looks bad. Whereas predicting that Bowie, a guy who barely played in college, wouldn't hold up in the NBA wasn't much of a stretch.
@@michaelahurt nearly every mock draft at the time had oden going first over KD.
The Tatum trade is bad since they not only drafted the wrong guy but traded up to do it.
Context matters, Fultz was picked in a period where small guards were seen as the future of the league.
Blake griffin..u said it in the redraftables ..blake curry and rubio are your favorites in the draft
Rubio in the 2008 olympics and 2012 olympics showed his potential
MINN TAKING 2 PGS IN A ROW. NOT PICKING STEPH 😂🤦🏾♂️
stupid then, and stupid now
Rubio and Steph would have been pretty interesting together. Rubio could cover Steph defensively while Steph could cover Rubio as a shooter, pair it with a good system and coach, ball movement, it could have been pretty nice to watch. They have Love as a rebounder and shooter as well, that way they could have gone to the playoffs at least.
Neither Steph or Ricky were guarding SG's. Also at the time the Wolves had Kurt Rambis and his triangle offense, still sounds like a disaster waiting to happen so I'm not surprised Steph refused to workout for Minnesota in order to drop to the Knicks
The last few years the biggest mistake is Phoenix not taking Luka
The sport changed from 1 on 1 battle ball to moving picks and shooting 3s. Rubio and curry both benefitted from this.
Oden at 1 over kd is up there obviously darko over d wade for that pistons team hindsight with kobe at 13 and jordan after bowie but those are up there as well in the modern era....russell not being 1 same for wilt is crazy...
it was a big mistake, although it's hard to tell because if Curry went somewhere else, there was a chance he'd never be allowed to grow into the player he is now
How they gonna mention Darko over Melo and Bosh but not mention Dwade!?
I think the idea here is that Detroit favored a big man, and if they were going to insist on a big man they would've been better getting Bosh. Either way, you have to mention Wade, but Detroit wouldn't have been wrong if they didn't have Wade on their draft board. Melo was a better prospect.
Did bill Simmons stop posting his whole pod because of the Spotify deal ?
He usually only uploads segments of his whole podcast he’s never done a full video podcast unless it’s for the rewatchables
Sacramento picking Bagley over Doncic has to be the biggest mistake since Bowie over Jordan. Everyone knew Doncic was a HOF talent and he had just won Euroleague MVP, a far better league than the NCAA.
Saying "everyone knew Doncic was a HOF" is probably too strong. None of us were completely sure athletically about Luka. I certainly don't remember anyone saying he'd be first team all-NBA in year 2. But people were very gently bringing up the b-word (Bird). It was more the juxtaposition with Bagley in particular, who was widely seen as a potential bust in the moment because he couldn't shoot, sucked on defense and had bad feel. He was very Stromile Swift-ish.
But its definitely on the short list for biggest mistake. Especially for those of us who loved Luka since most of us weren't Bagley fans
A lot of Americans don't respect Euroleague enough to have seen him as a HOF talent. Ask Stephen A Smith
Rubio is a BUST. He was supposed to be the next Steve Nash. I would have picked Curry over him then and Obviously now.
😂😂😂😂😃
He's not a bust. He's had a good career, but he was probably overrated as a prospect. You loved him as a prospect if you thought he'd eventually develop a jumper. Thirteen years later and his jumper is below average and he's still terrible at finishing around the rim. He's a .389 shooter for his career. But he's averaged 11 pts and 8 assists per game in 11 seasons, which is not bad at all.
Dude is an 11 year veteran. Busts don't stick around. Did Rubio not meet expectations? Sure. Is he a bust? No.
@@ryansproviero let me ask you a Question... Are OJ Mayo, Rudy Gay and Tyreke Evans Bust's?
@@NewEarthSon Maybe Mayo but he played 8 years. Definitely not Gay and Evans was ROY.
If you want an example of a bust I'd say Anthony Bennett.
Taking Kerry Kittles ahead of Kobe Bryant and Darko ahead of Wade have to be up there too.
Kittles had a great college career and no one had any idea what Kobe would become. There was still a major stigma on going straight from high school to the pros at the time also. Kittles over Kobe was entirely justified at the time.
The Suns taking Ayton instead of Luka…AFTER HIRING LUKA’S FORMER COACH….will by far be the biggest draft mess up in nba history
No. Sac taking Bagley over Luka was 1000 times worse.
The Ayton pick looks bad in hindsight because Luka is Luka but 1) Pho went to the Finals with Ayton and 2) the concerns about Booker and Luka playing together are no less real now than there were at the time. Team building is about acquiring players who compliment each other and make each other better.
@@michaelahurt Yep! Suns would have eventually had to pick between Booker and Luka. They wouldn’t be any better than they are now.
Not even close. The suns were a few games away from being NBA champions. Are you forgetting that or?
@@michaelahurt The move by Sac was dumb as hell….but y’all aren’t factoring in how brain dead stupid it is to hire someone who hadn’t coached in the NBA, only because they were close with Luka….and then NOT draft Luka.
Also, picking between Booker and Luka is not a guarantee - you don’t think there’s a world where those two don’t figure it out? C’mon
If the Suns won a championship last year then it would’ve been the Hakeem, Michael Jordan situation. Everyone happy. Bt since they didn’t and now they are about to trade him it looks bad.
A: Tatum and Brown. 2016/17
Steph greatness is not just about himself but also about steve kerr's system. it would have different if steph drafted by other team
but even under mark jackson, Steph greatness was shining.
Picking Rubio was not a mistake. Picking Flynn is lol. Rubio was a pure PG, and you match him woth a shooter sheesh
Darko over Carmelo is bad also. Melo coming off the NCAA Championship was the man
MN definitely would have ruined Cuury's career
I agree, and I think without Steve Kerr we might have never seen Steph's full potential
The kings missing luka and trae young
Time will definitely tell how bad that was. But with Luka alone that's looking super bad
Curry was seen as a great player and he became incredible...
Everything is in hindsight. Especially with Curry if he didn't reached and sustain his 2015 MVP performance through the years we're not talking about this now.
Hasheem Thabeet over Curry and Harden.
The sixers taking a Markelle Fultz who forgot how to shoot over a hungry Jayson Tatum with the #1 pick. Haunts me to this day because I knew Tatum had the juice and fultz was soft.
That wasn’t a mistake because you pick Fultz every time in that situation
darko the goat
Greg Oden. Next topic.
Bill hasnt quit Rubio
Brandon Jennings is the third guy I’m guessing
to me its still bagley over luka. i didnt understand it back then and i still dont understand it
Pacers drafting and trading Kawhi for George Hill is pretty bad
Cleveland drafted a guy whose name I forgot with the first overall pick. He got fat and played almost as much minutes as everyone reading this, we almost tied him in career points as well.
Anthony benett
He said Rubio was the first to ever do blind passes? 😆 🤣 😂 did he forget about Magic Johnson??
Or Kidd, rondo, white chocolate, Pete Maravich, etc. lol bill just be talking sometimes.
Divac knowing Balkan’s basketball and yet passing on Luka was the dumbest thing in XXI century drafts… 👀🤷🏻♂️😅🤯🤦🏻♂️
Divac knowing Balkan’s basketball so he wanted Luka to be in a better situation than SAC Kings. Divac was doing Luka a favor.
Darko over Melo is definitely the biggest draft mistake, at least of this century
how about the wizards trading that 5th pick to minnesota for randy foye and mike miller LOL. randy foye and mike miller could have been steph!!! but steph on the wiz, he woulda lost hope and never gotten as good. that trade never made sense to me at all.
Wish Bill wouldn't interrupt so often
johnny Flynn was undone by injuries. he would have been a stud without those things
Ppl already forgetting about dark. Didn't watch video so don't know if he was mentioned. If pistons chose Dwayne wade they'd have a dynasty. If they chose Chris bosh team would still be pretty good. Drafting Melo would make their team worse (lockerroom poison). As bad as twolves passing up steph twice is, no one knows if Minny gonna get him Klay KD Green Iggy Wiggins and Poole. Probably out of the league after those 2 huge ankle surgeries he had early career(fans Probably forgot about those injuries too). True young for doncic trade was actually even. Hawks just made a bad 10th pick. Herro, Clarke keldon Johnson available. Even though Hawks made bad 2019 10th pick. Trae young still got them 2021 conf finals. Only thing luka better is Stat padding. He's gonna get waxed by the clippers a 3rd time in 1st round.
Let’s be honest , none of us thought Curry would be the player he is today . Especially given his first couple of years , but ouch to think the T’Wolves doubled and a PG is 😒😒😒
Suns Taking Alex Len instead of Giannis.
Hasheem Thabeet probably up there
Jonny Flynn healthy is a 12 year NBA starter. Even if it’s the wrong pick, put some respect on a guy getting hurt.
Fultz..
Hah Russillo, ok buddy. You're literally looking at everything with hindsight and you're saying "they did something to make sure they got it wrong!" - uh not really. But oh yeah, that's sports chatter anyway, "hindsight powers on!"
Flynn over Curry IS worst draft mistake, Harden I worst trade (almost completely unforced error by Presti)
Sixers trading a ransom for fultz, AND Boston drafted the dude they wanted the WHOLE TIME
Imagine Rubio and Curry.with Kevin Love.....that Flynn pick was so bad
How did Fultz/Tatum not make the list. The Sixers traded up and picked the worse player
This!
bc Fultz was the consensus #1 guy in that class. With Flynn to MIN and Bagley to SAC they passed up on the consensus guy at that pick to take an absolute flop. & in both cases the consensus guy was generational
Fultz was actually good in college so the hype was real. Also, everyone prioritizes lead guards over forwards, the Sixers wanted a PG because they thought Simmons would be cool playing off ball, and no one thought his jumper was broken. No one expected that he'd get the yips. The Simmons aspect was the only mistake they made with the pick.
@@griffinwalker823 heres where the issue lies. Boston was taking Tatum either way. At 1 or 3. And the Lakers said they were taking Lonzo early on. Sixers couldve kept their other draft pick and still got Fultz
@@francisayala9310 Nah it was the opposite. They wanted Fultz to play off ball cuz he could shoot. I dont knock that Fultz digressed. I knock that the Sixers lost a pick trading up when they couldve got him at #3. Lonzo was a Lakers lock and Boston wanted Tatum. Also a 2 way wing is the most valuable position in basketball.
You forgot that Mychal Thompson literally begged David Khan for us too take him. Worst president of all time.
Marvin Bagley over me?
You guys are forgetting about my Knicks taking Frank Ntilikina over Donovan Mitchell!!! Or how about any of the knicks picks over the last 15 years!!!! ... Porzingis already on his 3rd team smh
Not picking Steph definitely looks like a huge mistake in hindsight, but would he definitely have become the transcendent talent he is had he been drafted by Minnesota?
The Wolves famously squandered a large part of KG's prime, so there's no guarantee that Curry would have blossomed there the way he did in Golden State.
Umm him and Kevin love would’ve been great together. Steph was steph from day one. The issue was never him developing. It was the role he was forced into next to Ellis and his inconsistent health.
@@TheIcemanthomas that's a fair point. But the inconsistent health is also an important variable. GSW stuck with him, and the medical team was able to help him work through those issues and get back to full fitness. It's not a given that any other franchise might have been able to either fix his ankles, or even give him a chance to get fully fit! Ultimately, this is all hypothetical. But it really does feel like Steph and the Warriors were a perfect match, and it's certainly played out that way in the long run.
Kaaaaaaaahn!!!!