Ruffs & Drags - The Same Rudiment?
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- čas přidán 1. 12. 2021
- Ruffs, ruffes, or roughs have existed in the English speaking world since the 17th century. In the late 18th the term drag or dragg became common, sometimes styled the half drag, and sometimes referred to as either open or close(d). This same sticking can also be called a 3 stroke roll, ra de trois, tra, vra, vri, ran de 3, ra, rau, ran, ruf, kurze wirbel, kortruf, raf, 3er ruf, halbe ruf, di, and several more... but are all these the SAME rudiment? I have my doubts... I am not 100% sure of my position in this video, but there is evidence on my side.
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Wow! Amazing! Your explanations opened my mind, I recently started studying drums and I was very confused about this... In some videos I've even seen a four ruff called.
Thanx a lot
There’s lots of things called ruffs and it is confusing. There’s crushed ruffs, single stroke ruffs of many sizes, 3,4,5,6,7 etc. then the double stroke ruffs of 3, 5, 7 etc. which essentially overlap with the concept of double stroke rolls…. The word has very little precision.
I need to study a lot and try to understand the rudiments and techniques well. Your videos are a great help, thanx a lot
@@RyanAlexanderBloom I need to study a lot and try to understand the rudiments and techniques well. Your videos are a great help, thanx a lot
This is beautiful. Thank you for your investigation and sharing this.
In the Buddy Rich book, ruffs and drags have different stickings. In other words, ruffs were SINGLE stroke interpretations of the drag rhythm. Such as the 3 stroke ruff is rlr lrl.
The term "ruff" gets extra complicated when you factor in the 3 Stroke Ruff, 4 Stroke Ruff, etc. "The Ruff" and the "3 Stroke Ruff" are, confusingly, not the same at all. The Ruff is double stroked rrL and the 3 Stroke Ruff is singles lrL. The single version can also be called a "Tap Ruff," "Single Stroke 3," "Single 3," or "Treble Stroke." Buddy Rich uses the antique term "Half Drag" for a Drag, and he shows a 3 Stroke Ruff and 4 Stroke Ruff, in singles, but no normal double stroke Ruffs. Rich also includes a Single Drag and a Full Drag, which is super rare. The Full Drag is so rarely used that I have had a member of a military drum corps, who plays on rope drums for a living, ask me to point out where on earth the Full Drag comes from. He had never heard of it. Rich basically learned his rudiments by rote, because he couldn't read, but he must have learned them from a disciple of either Bruce and Emmett, Moeller, and/or Krupa because he includes a lot of the same rudiments that are really not common and only show up in that teaching lineage, like the 3 Stroke Ruff Paradiddle.
@@RyanAlexanderBloom On another rudimental note, I'll be putting up some videos concerning the Swiss Army Triplet w/out the flam ( Rll, Lrr ). My teacher taught me that as I continue to teach my students and Virgil Donati also makes mention of it, Also I had written to the PAS concerning the possible addition of the 14 Stroke Roil which makes musical sense. It would follow in the steps of the 6 and 10 Stroke Roll format.
My former instructor on the non flam version of the Swiss Army Triplet. czcams.com/video/LJmavDUrGa8/video.html
Nice. I think most people call the Swiss Army Triplet minus the Flam just a “Swiss Triplet” without the army. But not universally I suppose. Ed Straight advocated for playing triplets rlr-rlr which is sort of the Swiss triplet idea but offset by one note. It’s an interesting topic for sure. I’ve always been a bit confused as to why certain rolls were or were not on the PAS or NARD sheets. Lots of old books used to feature the 8 stroke., but it’s rare now. 14 makes just as much sense. I tell my students that once they know the framework for rolls that’s any number is acceptable. Not just 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15, 17.
Great explanation!!
This is a really great video. Subscribed.
Can you open or close the first two notes of the rough or drag to a different degree in the run of 8 sixteenth notes example, or would that be considered incorrect or out of time? Ohh, it's 32nd vs 64ths right?
That would be kind of weird, in my opinion. Playing some as ruffs and some as drags is not something I would ever do. I suppose you could make a case for anything if you tried, though. Like any rudiment with drag in the name is open but single unattached ruffs are closed. I guess that’s doable. But probably not different speeds just because of where in the measure the figure sits.
I would suggest you use some sound diffusers in your room, its really echoey. Great video btw!
It’s probably mostly the 18 drums and 10 cymbals I currently have out sympathetically vibrating with my voice. I suppose I could use a much closer mic though.
@@RyanAlexanderBloom oh that would definitely explain it lol, but yeah I'd moving the mic closer is a good idea in that case.
Aside from the historical lineage, would it be the most useful and efficient to call singles a ruff and doubles a drag? It seems really odd to give one rudiment two different stickings. You might say, 'we use a lot of stickings for double stroke rolls.' Yes, but those all fall under the clear umbrella of doubles. There is not another rudiment that has multiple sticking options, so it makes sense to assign ruffs as singles and drags as doubles. Then you just ask, 'is it closed or open?' We can re-name the 'single stroke 4' to a '4 stroke ruff.' Again, I acknowledge the historical lineage contradicts my arguement, and I typically tend towards following tradition, but I think this solution is much clearer to understand.
We “could” do a lot of things. Unfortunately there is almost no chance of separating the historical from the practical. Rudimental drumming has a 700 year history, or more. You can make up whatever system you want but getting others to use it is the problem. It’ll take a couple generations for anything invented now to become relatively standard. You have to wait for the old guard to literally die out before anything in drumming changes. It does change over time, but slow, slow, slow. Separating singles and doubles into ruffs and drags sounds nice in theory. But the ruff has been doubles (at least half the time) in the USA for 160 years or something. That’s the kind of battle you’re fighting.
@@RyanAlexanderBloom I hear you. Tommy Igoe is probably the biggest voice in advocating for ruffs to be exclusively singles so he may just do that by the time you and I are dead. But my teacher studied with Alan Dawson and I don't imagine he'll ever bend on this subject. I saw another commenter and you joke about this being a theological debate and it is damn near that way out there! I am in the midst of writing a method book so I am spending way too much time pondering the drag vs ruff question. Good work here, it's nice having all the reading condensed into a quick video.
Oh yeah Dawson was famous for having an opinion on everything. I’ve also heard some stories from other students of his about how he absolutely advocated for things that are detrimental, incorrect, or at least highly questionable. Igoe can advocate for that but the NARD sheet disagrees with him and, despite it being 91 years old, there are still hardcore supporters. The organization exists and I talk to the current president of NARD a few times a month on Facebook. That’s his biggest hurdle. Any time you contradict NARD there’s a backlash.
Great video! This is kind of a religious argument, but here are my 2 cents. Ruffs are grace notes and drags are not. Drags are 2 notes played on the same hand, exactly twice as fast as the context in which they are placed, and ruffs (being grace notes) have no single "correct" mathematical placement. Or even a "correct" number of notes. Rock on!
That is essentially the argument I am making in this video, more or less, so yeah I agree with that interpretation. Sounds right enough to me. I think in practice if you say the wrong term (which I am guilty of) its fine... most people will get what you mean. But academically, and potentially "theologically," speaking there should be a subtle difference.
great stuff here ryan, get ahold of me, would love to talk more, keep up the great vids. very helpful , bye > tom !
A ruff video, It seemed to DRAAG on a bit.
I see what you did there.
Good one.