@@MyTimeToFly I had the SureFly installed when I purchased the plane (along with rebuilt exhaust and gnc 355). I just did a trip from KHQZ-KMKL. 7.1 GPH at 148 true - 9000 ft. Documented on my MooneySpace thread. I do have speed mods but I've been able to,lean her very well (I also have a G2 insight). Really like the SureFly so far.
Look into the electro-aire ignition. We have it on our baby beech and love it. I believe they just got STC’d for installation to replace both mags. I still like one side e-ignition and the other side running a mag.
Yes, airplanes are always broken. It really makes you appreciate a modern car or motorcycle. It's the lead in the fuel and the weak spark from the magnetos that cause our pain. It's time for electronic ignition and motorcycle spark plugs. Eventually, Lycoming will supply engines with their electronic ignition system only.
@@MyTimeToFly And no lead in the fuel. They add lead to increase octane. 100LL is amazing other than the lead. It causes extreme maintenance cost and pain for GA owners & operators. Check out E-mag as an option. At least our current fuel injection systems are very reliable. Carburetors on airplanes are a night mare. I know from a few failures. I had a double magneto failure on climb out when I purchased my Pitts Special S1S. I glided back to a great landing. Not fun. Magnetos and airplane spark plugs can and do fail.
Well before you invest money into the mag that means you got to put a new wire in first and a plug-in first this fixes the problem that you don't need a new mag, you can do the plug and wire yourself I think and save mechanic fees
Thanks William, I have a set of plugs coming tomorrow. I feel confident changing the plugs, but will have to learn more about changing the wires on my Bendix mags.
About 3 weeks after I bought my airplane, while I was still a student, I had a left magneto fail. And it behaved *EXACTLY* like what you were seeing. I wasn't at home but found an A&P on the field I was at and he looked at it and could find nothing wrong with the plugs or rest of the ignition system and concluded that the only option was to overhaul the mags. I know you're a big fan of Mike Busch, so I'm sure your aware that magnetos are impossible to diagnose without pulling them apart to see if any of their finicky and fragile moving parts has an issue. In my case, both mags were the same age. I concluded that if one was failing, it was likely the other would fail soon too. So rather than having to do the same labor twice, I just replaced both mags. Unfortunately, I let my exceptionally traditional CFI talk me out of replacing one of the mags with an electronic ignition system like surefly. I wish I'd ignored him and gone with my instinct. It would have cost a small bit more but since then I've done all the research and concluded I made a bad decision. If I were in your shoes, I'd have a mechanic inspect the ignition system, and if he concluded the mag was bad, I wouldn't hesitate to get the surefly. I've since put on about 250 hours on those two mags, and I'll have to replace them both again in about 250 more hours. Whereas the surefly will live for approximately 2000 hours. One surefly is more expensive than one magneto, but it's not more expensive than 4 magnetos, which is how much longer it lasts. But I hope it's just the plugs. FYI: I tagged you in an unlisted video that I posted showing my "bad mag" experience. LMK if you can see the clip and if it seems similar to what you experienced.
Thanks for all of the details! I appreciate the recommendation for the Surefly, I think we will have to go that route if the mag needs replaced…it just makes sense!
Oh yes - this brings me back to this past spring... I made a video of a similar experience, but was on a remote island which was not helpful. Good ADM!
@@MyTimeToFly well given it was a rental and I was 600nm from home, we left the airplane on the island and caught a ride out, and then flew back the next day with a miraculously available top notch mechanic who went through it all and while no decisive demons were found, cleaning the plugs and flying back with eagle eyes for landing spots got me home.
Mooney M20C O360 with Surefly at last annual resolved all my issues. I also upgraded to new set wires for both mags and my reoccurring plug fouling seems to be resolved.
Maybe it's time for a new mag. It's problem after problem with these older planes. Maybe you can have a go at the USA POWER LOTTO, it's up to $1 BILLION, haha. Imagine the new planes you can get with a win like that. Thanks mate
Yea, I sure could have a lot of fun with a win like that. Although I’m a gambler, I typically stay away from that lotto nonsense! I guess I’ll just have to bear down and get to work!
I put the Surefly on my left mag and got rid of the shower of sparks. I'm a fan of it. It starts right up much faster. I think even up north it'll turn your engine over faster. I experienced a lot of lead fouling on my Mooney, but it looks like you eliminated that at the end of the video. I have to pull the mixture to just shy of cutoff to keep things clean while idling and taxiing. Looking forward to lead free avgas.
I often have a bad mag check due to plug fouling on my M20B. To clear it I run it at a higher RPM while aggressively leaning. This usually clears it. I did have a mag fail once. The day it failed I had a normal mag check and a normal takeoff run. It failed when I reached around 1,000 feet with a slight reduction in RPM. I just had it rebuilt.
Roger that Mark. I'm going to swap out some plugs and see what happens. I agree it could be fouling, but I tend to believe it's an actual failing part. I say that because, I've used the same procedures since day 1, and this is a new issue.
Had my mags overhauled as we reassembled my plane and installed the Electroair on the right. About 50 hours later we sent the left mag back to have the coil replaced. I love the Electroair but I don’t know how it compares to the other options. I just posted two videos on troubleshooting spark leakage which caused odd issues at cruise.
You have a bad plug rune the engine on the bad mag to cool the cylinder not firing then shut down You can use a temp gun or just pore water on each cylinder the one that does not sizzle is the problem usually a lower plug remove clean or replace
Do you have fine wire plugs or mass electrode? Do you have an engine monitor that you can see which cylinder is having the issue? Great job at being aggressive on the lean for taxi!
I have mass electrode plugs. And no, I don’t have individual CHTs or EGTs unfortunately. I did do some work on it tonight. What for that video, I’m just about the publish it.
Aww she wanted a pwane wide.. 😂 that could be a few things but it's simple. Could just be the plug or a short in the wire. Yes but also could be the mag. It runs in a series circuit but that's for a whole video to explain lol. There could be where the primary isn't allowing the proper interruption or disconnect to allow for the secondary to fire. This is all stuff inside the mag though. I would surely get all of those checked but then again I'm thinking it's just the plug.
Several years ago I worked for a big contractor who had 2 C182s. He and I were talking one day about operating cost. He said the rule of thumb was supposed to be $250 an hour to operate. Turned out the 3 year average was $490 and hour. That's when it hit me. I wont be flying as a hobby.
@@MyTimeToFly We flew a LOT. We were doing flights from Springdale AR to Seagoville TX and Grand Forks ND plus. Had very reasonable mechanics even. He finally sold them off and got a bigger twin turbo prop and another few smaller planes for his new flight school. The last almost flight of the C182rg was aborted at the last second when the engine puked. His son and CFI were going on a lesson. The engine was 300 hours over max time. Flying in to Texas in the spring at night watching distant storms will always be the most beautiful thing I ever saw.
I think I’d check the plugs 1st. Check the ones on the bottom. One is likely fouled from lead deposits. A contributing factor to your fouling problem is when you idle at very low RPM. When the engine is below operating temperature, the engine should be run at 1000 to 1200 RPM. Please read Lycoming Service Letter No. Running the engine cold and at low RPM provides the perfect conditions for the lead in the fuel to precipitate into deposits that will foul the lower spark plugs.
Thank you kindly, I'll find that service letter. I do typically idle at 1,000 RPMs or more, clearly in the video I idled down per my procedure. I also tend to lean aggressively on the ground.
@@MyTimeToFly another thing that might help is to put fine wire spark plugs in the bottom of each cylinder.they are really expensive but they really help solve spark plug fouling issues.
I would upgrade to the Surefly Mag since you are going to have to spend money on it anyway why not spend a little more and get more modern/efficient parts...
I'm pretty darn aggressive (I think). I’ve has the engine almost quit multiple times when I lean for taxi. I do hope it's just a plug, but I had it happen once before annual, now again it's happening after.
I may have caved and killed everyone when hearing "i really want a plane ride"! Nice job on being so firm! 😂
I appreciate that Shane, they are my entire world!
SureFly on the left, IRAN mag on the right... that is how mine is setup and works great.
Thanks for the recommendation! Did you own it prior to the SureFly? If so, did you find improved economy?
@@MyTimeToFly I had the SureFly installed when I purchased the plane (along with rebuilt exhaust and gnc 355). I just did a trip from KHQZ-KMKL. 7.1 GPH at 148 true - 9000 ft. Documented on my MooneySpace thread. I do have speed mods but I've been able to,lean her very well (I also have a G2 insight). Really like the SureFly so far.
So awesome! Thanks for sharing the details!
Look into the electro-aire ignition. We have it on our baby beech and love it. I believe they just got STC’d for installation to replace both mags. I still like one side e-ignition and the other side running a mag.
Roger that, ill check out the electro-aire.
You’re not alone! I’ve got EGT and CHT gremlins to chase! Good luck and remember the mantra “If there is doubt, there is no doubt.”👍
Great saying Roy, best of luck with yours too!
We added a Surefly mag on our C182S and don’t regret it. Also helps with hot starts on our fuel injected engine.
Roger that! It seems like there are lots of people that love the Surefly! It’s definitely in our future, I’m just not sure how distant that future is.
Swap plugs top to bottom. Test plugs for 4-5k resistance. I wouldn't mind upgrading to a Surefly, one day.
Makes good sense. I ordered up some new plugs to test. I could have just done the swap, but decided to bring some new parts to the party.
Oooo, shiny spark plugs!
Hahaha, yea. With the price of them you’d think they were made out of gold.
My 64C has Slick Mags. Never had a problem since purchased in 2018.
Right on! If you ever did want to convert to a Surefly, you already have the harness you need.
@@MyTimeToFly cool!! I didn’t know that. Good to know…
Yes, airplanes are always broken. It really makes you appreciate a modern car or motorcycle. It's the lead in the fuel and the weak spark from the magnetos that cause our pain. It's time for electronic ignition and motorcycle spark plugs. Eventually, Lycoming will supply engines with their electronic ignition system only.
I couldn't agree more. Imagine a world where we all had electronic ignition and bolt on plate style fuel injection. What a dream!
@@MyTimeToFly And no lead in the fuel. They add lead to increase octane. 100LL is amazing other than the lead. It causes extreme maintenance cost and pain for GA owners & operators. Check out E-mag as an option. At least our current fuel injection systems are very reliable. Carburetors on airplanes are a night mare. I know from a few failures. I had a double magneto failure on climb out when I purchased my Pitts Special S1S. I glided back to a great landing. Not fun. Magnetos and airplane spark plugs can and do fail.
I just did my mags, I can recommend a good shop.
I appreciate that WP. Is it in the midwest?
@@MyTimeToFly I used Magneto service In Montana, Stevenson I believe the town was. 1 of my mags had 900 hours and was installed in 2010.
Roger that, thanks for the recommendation W P!
Well before you invest money into the mag that means you got to put a new wire in first and a plug-in first this fixes the problem that you don't need a new mag, you can do the plug and wire yourself I think and save mechanic fees
Thanks William, I have a set of plugs coming tomorrow. I feel confident changing the plugs, but will have to learn more about changing the wires on my Bendix mags.
About 3 weeks after I bought my airplane, while I was still a student, I had a left magneto fail. And it behaved *EXACTLY* like what you were seeing. I wasn't at home but found an A&P on the field I was at and he looked at it and could find nothing wrong with the plugs or rest of the ignition system and concluded that the only option was to overhaul the mags.
I know you're a big fan of Mike Busch, so I'm sure your aware that magnetos are impossible to diagnose without pulling them apart to see if any of their finicky and fragile moving parts has an issue. In my case, both mags were the same age. I concluded that if one was failing, it was likely the other would fail soon too. So rather than having to do the same labor twice, I just replaced both mags.
Unfortunately, I let my exceptionally traditional CFI talk me out of replacing one of the mags with an electronic ignition system like surefly. I wish I'd ignored him and gone with my instinct. It would have cost a small bit more but since then I've done all the research and concluded I made a bad decision.
If I were in your shoes, I'd have a mechanic inspect the ignition system, and if he concluded the mag was bad, I wouldn't hesitate to get the surefly. I've since put on about 250 hours on those two mags, and I'll have to replace them both again in about 250 more hours. Whereas the surefly will live for approximately 2000 hours. One surefly is more expensive than one magneto, but it's not more expensive than 4 magnetos, which is how much longer it lasts.
But I hope it's just the plugs.
FYI: I tagged you in an unlisted video that I posted showing my "bad mag" experience. LMK if you can see the clip and if it seems similar to what you experienced.
Thanks for all of the details! I appreciate the recommendation for the Surefly, I think we will have to go that route if the mag needs replaced…it just makes sense!
Oh yes - this brings me back to this past spring... I made a video of a similar experience, but was on a remote island which was not helpful. Good ADM!
I appreciate it Brian. What was your eventual solution?
@@MyTimeToFly well given it was a rental and I was 600nm from home, we left the airplane on the island and caught a ride out, and then flew back the next day with a miraculously available top notch mechanic who went through it all and while no decisive demons were found, cleaning the plugs and flying back with eagle eyes for landing spots got me home.
@@MyTimeToFly the tale is told on my channel "stranded on a remote island" or some title like that.
I guess a little luck goes a long way! Glad you got out safely!
Roger that, I’ll have to check it out!
Mooney M20C O360 with Surefly at last annual resolved all my issues. I also upgraded to new set wires for both mags and my reoccurring plug fouling seems to be resolved.
Awesome Richard, thanks for sharing. Do you have the slick mag on the non SureFly side?
@@MyTimeToFly I have Bendix. I upgraded wires to New Horizons Maggie Systems and could not be happier so far
Roger that. Thanks Richard.
Maybe it's time for a new mag. It's problem after problem with these older planes. Maybe you can have a go at the USA POWER LOTTO, it's up to $1 BILLION, haha. Imagine the new planes you can get with a win like that. Thanks mate
Yea, I sure could have a lot of fun with a win like that. Although I’m a gambler, I typically stay away from that lotto nonsense! I guess I’ll just have to bear down and get to work!
I put the Surefly on my left mag and got rid of the shower of sparks. I'm a fan of it. It starts right up much faster. I think even up north it'll turn your engine over faster. I experienced a lot of lead fouling on my Mooney, but it looks like you eliminated that at the end of the video. I have to pull the mixture to just shy of cutoff to keep things clean while idling and taxiing. Looking forward to lead free avgas.
Amen to that! Glad to hear of the success with the SureFly. If a mag is in our future, I think we will have to go that route.
@@MyTimeToFly Yeah it's been good. First thing I had to do to my plane. Left mag died on my last leg home from picking it up.
That kind of forces your hand. Seems that you made the right choice!
I often have a bad mag check due to plug fouling on my M20B. To clear it I run it at a higher RPM while aggressively leaning. This usually clears it. I did have a mag fail once. The day it failed I had a normal mag check and a normal takeoff run. It failed when I reached around 1,000 feet with a slight reduction in RPM. I just had it rebuilt.
Roger that Mark. I'm going to swap out some plugs and see what happens. I agree it could be fouling, but I tend to believe it's an actual failing part. I say that because, I've used the same procedures since day 1, and this is a new issue.
Had my mags overhauled as we reassembled my plane and installed the Electroair on the right. About 50 hours later we sent the left mag back to have the coil replaced. I love the Electroair but I don’t know how it compares to the other options. I just posted two videos on troubleshooting spark leakage which caused odd issues at cruise.
Thanks Hair Helmet, I'll have to go check out that video. The SureFly is about $1,000 less than the electro air, if I have to I think I'll go SureFly.
Go with the electronic system. TBO is 2k hours. Hotter spark. Better fuel economy.
Roger that. My only concern is higher CHTs
You have a bad plug rune the engine on the bad mag to cool the cylinder not firing then shut down You can use a temp gun or just pore water on each cylinder the one that does not sizzle is the problem usually a lower plug remove clean or replace
Great idea Nick! I bought some new plugs, but certainly see how this diag could help. I'll bring my heat gun with me when I go out to work on it!
SureFly mag!
Roger that!
I have a fresh rebuilt bendix sitting on my workbench. 🤦♂️😂 literally finished it up Thursday, half day Friday. We washed the airplanes
Nice! How much work is involved in the rebuild process? 10 hours? More / less?
@@MyTimeToFly took me about 2 hours. But I have all the tools and test equipment 🤷♂️
That certainly helps.
Do you have fine wire plugs or mass electrode?
Do you have an engine monitor that you can see which cylinder is having the issue?
Great job at being aggressive on the lean for taxi!
I have mass electrode plugs. And no, I don’t have individual CHTs or EGTs unfortunately. I did do some work on it tonight. What for that video, I’m just about the publish it.
*FAA joins,
"tell us more about this OCD"
Hahaha, never diagnosed...just speculative!
Surefly all the way!
Roger that!
Aww she wanted a pwane wide.. 😂 that could be a few things but it's simple. Could just be the plug or a short in the wire. Yes but also could be the mag. It runs in a series circuit but that's for a whole video to explain lol. There could be where the primary isn't allowing the proper interruption or disconnect to allow for the secondary to fire. This is all stuff inside the mag though. I would surely get all of those checked but then again I'm thinking it's just the plug.
Roger that, thanks for all of the details!
Several years ago I worked for a big contractor who had 2 C182s. He and I were talking one day about operating cost. He said the rule of thumb was supposed to be $250 an hour to operate. Turned out the 3 year average was $490 and hour. That's when it hit me. I wont be flying as a hobby.
It does seem to be true at times. Seems the less you fly, the higher the per hour costs are.
@@MyTimeToFly We flew a LOT. We were doing flights from Springdale AR to Seagoville TX and Grand Forks ND plus. Had very reasonable mechanics even. He finally sold them off and got a bigger twin turbo prop and another few smaller planes for his new flight school. The last almost flight of the C182rg was aborted at the last second when the engine puked. His son and CFI were going on a lesson. The engine was 300 hours over max time. Flying in to Texas in the spring at night watching distant storms will always be the most beautiful thing I ever saw.
Sounds amazing…minus the puking engine! Thanks for being here!
I went surefly and haven't looked back. I think you'll be happy with the switch?
Thanks for the recommendation. Have you found some fuel savings?
@@MyTimeToFly not really as my plane is supercharged, so no real savings as of yet
Roger that
I think I’d check the plugs 1st. Check the ones on the bottom. One is likely fouled from lead deposits. A contributing factor to your fouling problem is when you idle at very low RPM. When the engine is below operating temperature, the engine should be run at 1000 to 1200 RPM. Please read Lycoming Service Letter No. Running the engine cold and at low RPM provides the perfect conditions for the lead in the fuel to precipitate into deposits that will foul the lower spark plugs.
Thank you kindly, I'll find that service letter. I do typically idle at 1,000 RPMs or more, clearly in the video I idled down per my procedure. I also tend to lean aggressively on the ground.
@@MyTimeToFly another thing that might help is to put fine wire spark plugs in the bottom of each cylinder.they are really expensive but they really help solve spark plug fouling issues.
Roger that, I bought some new plugs…but couldn’t pull the trigger on the fine wire. Perhaps I should have educated myself better!
I'd rent a plane at this point. Just to not disappoint the girls.
Disappointing them is the worst! Thanks for watching.
Sounds like a plug or plug wire to me. If the mag was bad it should die?
Roger that, I ordered up some new plugs today and should have them installed / tested by Wednesday.
I would upgrade to the Surefly Mag since you are going to have to spend money on it anyway why not spend a little more and get more modern/efficient parts...
My thoughts exactly! Hopefully it would pay for itself with improved fuel economy.
@@MyTimeToFly I have not met anyone who has upgraded who regretted doing it. Most wish they had done it sooner.
Makes sense to me.
Did you try leaning it out at 2200 rpm’s
I do my complete run up leaned out. I will pull the other plug in that cylinder and see what I find. I'm really hoping it was just one bad plug.
My first thought is plug fouling from running the engine too rich. How aggressive are you and your partner when it comes to leaning out the engine?
I'm pretty darn aggressive (I think). I’ve has the engine almost quit multiple times when I lean for taxi. I do hope it's just a plug, but I had it happen once before annual, now again it's happening after.
sell it
I guess that’s the only option.
@@MyTimeToFly just kidding
I understood, I know the feeling though. When something keeps breaking, my mind often wanders to asking, is this really worth it?