The secret to a black finish
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- čas přidán 17. 01. 2024
- If you would like to build one of these for yourself plans and the sketch-up files can be purchased on my website by following this link. www.bentswoodworking.com/store
I bought my Renner 718 from
tlfinish.com/brand/renner/
The India Ink I used
amzn.to/421oAoZ
Links to tools I am using in this video. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.
3M Cubitron Sandpaper 775L lddy.no/1gueh
Bessey Clamp Extender amzn.to/3Sl8DFN
Bessey Revo Clamps amzn.to/3Sgl32F
BitsBits 1/8" Roundover Bit bitsbits.com/product/2000c-ro...
BitsBits Round Nose Bit bitsbits.com/product/1403/ref...
Dewalt Cordless Trim Router amzn.to/48zCYqV
Fast Cap Tape Measure amzn.to/48B5fgP
Festool CXS12 www.ustoolandfastener.com/576...
Festool Domino DF500 www.ustoolandfastener.com/576...
Festool Domino XL DF 700 www.ustoolandfastener.com/576...
Festool ETS EC 150/5 www.ustoolandfastener.com/575...
Festool Jigsaw www.ustoolandfastener.com/576...
Festool Kapex www.ustoolandfastener.com/575...
Festool Rotex 150 www.ustoolandfastener.com/575...
Festool Sanding Blocks www.ustoolandfastener.com/570...
Festool Screw Clamp www.ustoolandfastener.com/489...
Graco Ultimate QuickShot amzn.to/4b0lS6W
Kreg Automaxx Clamp amzn.to/3O04y8f
Lamello Zeta P2 amzn.to/3O44GUm
Pica Pencil amzn.to/3O4yLTS
Rockler Scraper amzn.to/48yKZMx
Z Clips amzn.to/47xfe5q
Titebond III amzn.to/47KQDdC
Titebond Quick and Thick amzn.to/3tTpbMM
UJK Straight Edge tsoproducts.com/measuring-mar...
Woodpeckers Paolini Ruler amzn.to/48xyUHF
Woodpeckers Square www.ustoolandfastener.com/woo...
Woodpeckers T Square www.ustoolandfastener.com/woo...
Sponsored By:
Festool USA - www.festoolusa.com
US Tool and Fastener - www.ustoolandfastener.com/?aff=3
3M Abrasives - lddy.no/1hycd
Titebond - www.titebond.com
Affiliate For:
TSO Products - tsoproducts.com/?aff=5
Taylor Toolworks - lddy.no/1e5hv
Bits and Bits Company - 10% off with code BENTS10 - bit.ly/bitsbitsbw
Jay's Custom Creations - jayscustomcreations.com/produ...
Rubio Monocoat - www.rubiomonocoatusa.com/#ben...
Partnered With:
Hartzell Hardwoods - www.hartzellhardwoods.com
Felder USA - www.felder-group.com/en-us
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These videos are for entertainment purposes only. Bent's Woodworking is not responsible for any viewer trying to recreate something demonstrated in this video. Attempting any of the techniques shown are at the viewers own risk. - Jak na to + styl
If you are interested in buying plans or the original SketchUp file they can be purchased here www.bentswoodworking.com/store-old/breakfast-table-plans
Hey Jason, did you post a link to where you get that Renner finish? I didn't see it in the description. Curious about checking it out. Also, go team 775L!
@@supergimp2000 tlfinish.com/brand/renner/
I think people enjoy watching you build things instead of just tool reviews. They both have their place. Loved this video, whether it was winged or not. lol
Thanks
That was fun. Like the unscripted approach. Fun seeing your family. Appreciate you and your guidance.
Glad you enjoyed it!
The opening scene was so honest and relatable. Nice build.
Glad you enjoyed it
I've watched darn near all of your videos, and this is my favourite. While I appreciate your usual videos (those you referred to as "scripted"), this had a whole other level of authenticity and was sufficiently compelling to keep me engaged for the entire time. It's great to meet this version of Jason -- I really like the guy! Hopefully we'll see more videos along these lines in the future. Cheers.
Wow, thank you!
Faced with the same dilemma of getting a super dense black, I planned to use the shou sugi ban process but didn't care too much for the texturing. After a great deal of research, I arrived at India ink as well.That stuff really works! I used it in my artistic days, so I was familiar with the viscosity. I like that it acts like penetrating stain, showing off the grain of the wood. It really sets the bar and made your project a complete success! Great job!
Hi 👋, Bent’s , nice job, well worth the effort, if you ever need a longer jointer, bed, 🛌, 😂, I used the aluminium track from festool , I lined up the top, so when you’ve got a sheet of 18 mil or 22 mil board in the top of it set in the track, I drilled and tapped the side of the beds, so the track, then slid on either side of the plain bed with the boards already fitted into the aluminium track, precision here is paramount, and I drilled a hole through the track, so I can then put an Allen key wrench through the track to the dome, edit Bolt to camp the side of the track to the side of the bed, I hope you can understand this, A lot of my work was high-end specialist joinery, from large bookcases to very very large doors and windows, working by myself, I needed a large jointer surface, I have the SCM classic F 520 jointer, long bed,, but not long enough for some of my work, I’d 2 m in feet, and 2 m outfit, added to the jointer, And you obviously will need legs to accommodate adjustable,
And I have the Felder KF700 spindle and saw, good luck for the future, oh, and please can you wear some eye protection,
Jason I watch all your reviews and shop tour vids but I really enjoyed this vid, sat in bed watching on phone, now it’s 2:17am. Great vid!
i have never laughed so hard 5 seconds into a youtube video. Mike Coffey is going to love this.
I am glad to hear I make you laugh
Jason, I highly recommend grabbing yourself a 1/16" roundover bit. I find it a more modern look, and feels better to the hand. The 1/8" bits are great, but have more of a "dimensional" lumber look and feel to it to me. I also love the voiceover format here. It feels a bit more intimate and personal than the scripted ones. Those are great for detailed instructional videos and the Festool stuff, but these are more relatable to me.
I like 3/32 myself. Kinda being facetious, but it is the actual truth.
I have one on order.
Whiteside 3/32”
Wish I would have know about India ink a while ago. Did all of our stair railings with black wood dye and Rubio black. Took forever! 3 coats of dye and two coats of Rubio to get the luster
I need to tell you…. The India Ink you used. That was one of my shops top secret finishes that we used on our frames. It is gorgeous. We then would use Harrells Or Harrolds (spell?) Antique Black Wax on top of the ink. We would apply the wax with 0000 steel wool. We had a can dedicated to our India ink finish…. The finish was perfect Everytime. Try this exact finish on Walnut. Not Black Walnuts, Walnut. You will be so impressed. Good Luck!
Just a terrific job! Love the improvised voiceover style.
Glad you liked it!
First, best intro ever. Second, this video definitely has the secret sauce, and I also recommend more of this, woodworking with a splash of self deprecation, very relatable.
I LOVE that saw. nice job
I love your channel. It has helped me very much as I travel my woodworking journey!
Great to hear!
I really enjoy build videos like this. Nice job!
That was awesome, one of if not the best video you've done. Keep making more unscripted like this, I even forgot about how long the video was it was so entertaining😅
Glad to hear that because it was much easier to do. LOL
Awesome video! So much helpful info , thanks.
This is a beautiful table, Iove the design, classy.
And I love the dog, the little chonker
Thanks for going over this step by step. I always learn a ton from watching your projects. Table looks great.
Glad it was helpful!
Looks fantastic! Great job!
Thank you!
Love the new format. Thanks for this information-packed video. Super interested in the 2K finish!
More to come!
Really enjoy your build videos. Nice work buddy😉
Glad you like them!
I’m checking out the watches just as much as I am the tools and project. Nice Batman btw.
I’ve only been into two Woodcrafts and in both instances I was approached by staff and asked if I needed any help within just a couple of minutes. Very helpful
That is a beautiful table. I used India Ink a long time ago, with a pen practicing cursif in 3rd grade, haha. Great video and your extemperaneous narration is great. I feel like you are talking to me instead of at me. I got my Incra LS positioner installed and I love it. Thanks for your review awhile back. Thanks for your videos.
Thanks!!
I totally enjoy watching your videos, as I find them informative and easy to follow. Of course I will never have the more exotic tools that you use, mainly due to the fact that woodworking is more of a hobby with me than a source of income. However, it doesn't stop me from learning how to laminate and glue-up parts to make a greater whole. In this particular video, however, I decided to view it because of the title .... only you never really mention the "hidden cost"! It did remind me of a meme I saw a few weeks back, "I'm a DIY'er and I'll spend $100 to build something you can buy for $23 at Wal-Mart". While I think that is a true statement, it does not allow for the satisfaction of taking raw lumber or plywood and turning it into a functional, if not beautiful, piece of furniture. Thanks again for your videos!
Glad you are enjoying the videos. Also, that you can look past the expensive tools and listen to what I am saying. As for the title, it's more of a reference to the tools being used to build this table. Unfortunately, this is the kind of title I need for people to watch the video. One of the biggest reasons I don't do more build videos, is because they take an incredibly long time to make and on my channel, are a poor return on investment.
@@bentswoodworkingunderstandable, but I enjoyed this video and watched the entire thing! appreciate your time to make this.
India Ink is sleeper for sure. Too many people do not know about the way it covers incredibly well with so little fuss. I've used is on a couple of projects like a floating TV stand. I polyed over it and it looks fantastic.
I love the clean lines. Great design and build. You did kick all the ash borer out of the ash before the build? (ha ha). I lost an ash to EAB. Replaced it with an elm. My preference for finish prepping table tops is to use my larger hand planes, then final sand with 220. More physical labor, done right, a lot less time and dust. Surprised you don't. That table should serve you guys well for a long time.
The finishing process was really interesting for me. I'm working on an ash bedroom set and using black stain for some of the accent pieces, which was incredibly difficult to work with compared to other colors I've used before. I've completed the bed but still have nightstands, and 2 dressers to do so am definitely going to buy a bottle of India ink and try it out.
best bit is the family at the end :)
I love using India ink. I tried, and like Rubio, but IMO the India ink is superior in all aspects.
Hope all the best to you 😊😊
very nice video and build, buddy!
Thanks buddy!
interesting that the water and toothbrush work for you. I've never had good luck with it. I always get some areas that will not take finish afterwards and get a blotchy finish. I've taken to applying some finish before glue up to help with removing glue and that seems to work well.
Good point. I have a biscuit cutter with lots of biscuits - and have not used it in years. Really should make use of it like you did.
Absolutely!
Great video i enjoyed the style, i finally tried the jigsaw when rough cutting and now im sold on it. The quick and thick glue tip was great ill have to try that. Finally Nkce Watch!
Glad you enjoyed it
I love watching you using the Festool Domino 700 and 500 on this project. Your table looks great!
Thanks so much!
I just did 2 projects with the Rubio pre colour black. I for sure will use India ink next. The Rubio fills the little pores when you put the 2c on but it is really hard to apply and takes 12h to dry! Thanks for that!
I didn’t know even CZcamsrs mess up. I thought for sure they were perfect woodworkers. This makes me not feel so bad for the 1 time I messed up!
Nice! I’m partial to tables with legs at the extreme corners, so I like the design. Also, I’ve been looking for a good “looks like nothing” finish so I’ll give the renner a shot. Lastly, Pittie (or some mix thereof) pup! House Hippo! Aww, so adorable. 😂. We just had our pit cross to the great big dog park in the sky last month, so give yours an extra hug from me. 😊
Sorry for your loss.
While you can certainly build this with "lesser" tools, I'll agree it can be much more efficient to use high end machinery and tools. As a retiree with a comfortable but fixed income, my investment in new tools requires a period of time to save. I've slowly added some things over time (domino 500, sawstop PCS3), coupled with a jointer and incra router table I bought maybe 20 years ago. But I've found the most important thing has been to make my shop comfortable. Adding heat was the biggest (northern NY can be brutal), but good work surfaces, sufficient work space are crucial. I have a ton of rift and quarter sawn red and white oak (thanks to a sawmill I bought 6 years ago as a retirement gift to myself), air dried but really fun to make things with. My next project will be a drop leaf type farmhouse table with the white oak. Maple or ash for the legs. Thanks for the videos!
Glad you enjoyed it
nice work!!
Thanks!
One of your best yet. I always get something from your videos. Also looking at getting a Hammer Joiner/Planer based on your opinion of them. I have limited shop space seems like a no brainier.
Awesome, thank you!
Looks great
Thanks!
Jason, Really enjoyed this video and the narration style you used for this project build. Keep up the great work! Nice to see you using your new Graco Quick Shot for a clear finish. Still on the fence between this and the Fuji Mini Mite 5 with the G-XPC gun (I spray a bunch of 1.5” x 6” pieces for client work I do so having a adjustable spray pattern may be more helpful).
Jason, You talked me into it, I bought the QuickShot during the Sherwin-Williams Spring Blue Bucket Sale. I used the 210 tip to spray Poly this weekend and it put out way too much material on my parts. Which tips have you been using for clear coats?
I really liked this detailed format. Our sanding regiment is very similar. I had no idea how good the first pass of the Rotex was until I got one. I like to finish last sanding with 150/3 but otherwise we’re twinners.
Glad you liked it!
Masterpiece
Renner finishes are good but you should also try milesi products. Solvent finishes smells sweet nothing compared to other finishes but also you need a good respirator since is toxic as other solvents.
Nice project as always, Jason. You've gotta do a watch collection vid - it looked like you were rocking a sub and a Batman GMT throughout
I wish they were Rolex. They sure do look like it though. 🤣
Ok... that intro was fkn awesome (for us)!
Glad you liked it!
@@bentswoodworking BTW, of all the videos on CZcams talking about the Festool 60KEB (and I watch A LOT of em and still didnt buy)I made the decision to purchase it because of your video about the saw AND how quickly you replied to a query I posted about what you said (well, didnt say actually) in the video. I REALLY like that saw, and it does everything you said it did. Now I can follow your guide to breaking down sheet goods :) @Festool, if your goal is to sell more product, be sure to give em to JB to showcase. He's your top ambassador, no contest.
@@sunalwaysshinesonTVs that’s nice to hear, thank you!
15:00 i saved some cash on long long clamps, or clamp joiners by just buying 2/4/6/8 pipe clamps without the pipe. just the clamp. And then a bunch of the steel pipe needed. have a few long sections of that steel pipe stored away on bike racks or something near the roof. Get them down when you need and attach the clamp. Ultra cheap way of doing it. Storage is easy because the pipe lengths themsevles go on a rack real tight. And the pipe clamp is small enough to store in a drawer.
THANKS FOR THE VIDEO
You're welcome
That table turned out great. I do like how well that finish went on, and it looks like you used very little to coat the whole base.
Yeah the finish is excellent. So glad I found it.
Most DIYers would kill for this workshop and those tools.
Our chairs came from a Chinese restaurant going out of business sale. They are probably a bit studier than Ikea, but the finish was more beaten up. My wife made new cushions to get rid of the dragons on red motif.
Best: Interlux, can't beat that finish, indoor or outdoor...
Maybe a 1/16 Whiteside small pilot roundover with a 12v bosch cordless router?
Thanks Jason more and more impressed with the Renner finish. How do clean up the sprayer - does water suffice?
Water and with this I will add a splash of acetone and run it through.
Nice video.
Thanks!
Great video. Love the idea of the India Ink I will definitely be trying that out! Could I ask if you ever thin down your paint or lacquer when using your Graco sprayer?
Never
What an excellent build. Simple, but with extraordinary attention to detail. (But ya might wanna color those white cushion ties black. They stick out like a sore thumb.)
Glad you enjoyed it
Great project. Looks fantastic. I like the 1/4” reveal around the legs. Very nice look. I used to work in a table shop here in Madison. I was the sander/finisher. I’ve never actually made a table though. Well… I’ve made a sofa table. But not quite the same in my mind. Lots of finishing of them. But never did build one myself. I actually bought some legs from Carolina Legs to build one. They are turned legs. Just waiting to decide what material I want to use for the top. (Gotta get the shop reorganized first though). But… I have the Domino 500. I always wonder when I see someone bring out the bigger one…. Can you use the 500? I assume yes and that I would just need to use the largest dominos and do more. But I am always curious.
There is a lot you can do with the 500. But, sometimes it’s nice to take advantage of the longer tenons.
Just curious as to why not rubio monocoat for the topcoat? You have shared in other videos the ease of redoing the top if it gets damaged and rubio works great in repairing, is the rener finish that durable that you will not need to re finish the top after years of use?
Rift sawn, yup everything rift!
Appreciate you uploading a build, burned out on everyone doin the tool thing...my whole point on subin folk is for builds and joinery, like got the tool thing down... thank you...
You're welcome, but to be clear, my channel has never been about a lot of build videos and I don't intend it to be. If I find an editor, then maybe I will.
What blade are you using on your Kapex 120? Great video! I've learned so much from you. Thank you
I use mostly Tenryu blades.
Jason. I am just jumping in here with a quick question . I tried the India Ink on a large candle holder that I am turning that is poplar. I sanded thru 320 then I used both Dr. Kirks sanding paste then I used Yorkshire Micro fine. When I used a foam brush to apply the same India ink you used…..It really raised the grain.ROUGH! Yes it’s black but I am sort of stuck on what to do next? OOOO steel wool to knock it down? I am a big fan of annalyn (spell) dyes. Before I move forward after the single coat I wanted to ask you what you think my next move should be? The project is still on my lathe waiting for me to make a move. Boy Howdy is it BLACK. Can you help me out? It’s been a horrible week. My dog has cancer, I got run over by a drunk driver in my wheelchair in a crosswalk and then today we found out that my cancer has returned. RATS! So I bury myself in my trade. Looking for your expert reply. Best, Thom Schuck Portland Oregon. BTW. Yes I am in the hospital. They just allowed me to use my tablet. I am toast on pain meds. Thank You! Spine surgery in the am. I mean good Greif…..
Great vid. I noticed you didn't check the overall frame for square during the glue up. Is that because of the dominos? Did you chose to not use leveling feet for a particular reason?
What is the jig on your jointer holding down the pieces? Is that part of your particular model? And I love the t-track stop block on your miter station. What brand is that and where can I get it? I bought the plans. Great table.
Thanks, checking that the frame was square just happened when the camera wasn't rolling. I didn't use leveling feet this time because they weren't needed where we placed it. Not sure what jig you are referring to on the jointer.
@@bentswoodworking there's a cross piece that is on top of the wood on your jointer. I see it's part of Hammer's line. Thanks
If you clamp the board to the wagon for your parallel cuts (using a Friz and Franz or parallel guide system) you'll get a better rip than running aong the fence and eliminate the need to go back to the jointer. Having a slider over the years as made edge jointing an unusual thing for me as it's rarely needed.
I find myself questioning the need for certain tools more and more since getting this.
@@bentswoodworking I like not having to return to the jointer while having a perfect, glue ready edge off the wagon. Flat lumber on the wagon, clamped down, eliminates the need for edge jointing in most cases as I noted. The edge surface is pristine because no hands are involved in moving it through the cut. Setup time does come into play, but for most of us, the end result is more important than high volume.
Hi Bent. Sorry but I’m totally confused. You have a work table full of holes and their purpose is for clamping! Why would not use them? Why go to all the effort of making those long clamps? I’m thinking of building a table similar to yours but I don’t see why I wouldn’t use for clamping. Any Comments? Thanks
What brand is your tool belt/pouch? I like how yours hangs lower than the one I've been using. Thanks and great video!
It’s from Leather by Dragonfly
Great Vid, Great info, thanks.... but seriously FOUR Festool Plunge Saws in the background. Weird Flex ! And WHY ? LOL Great work
Good question! I have a sickness lol
very nice! any ballpark price estimate on the material costs? I'm building an entry table with 4 drawers out of white oak and the price is rising 😬
Ditto on the 1/8” Round Over
Did you have to wipe down the india ink? Whenever I use rubio intense black I have to get rid of the excess quickly or it'll get incredibly streaky and leaves alot of residue after drying. Even after applying 2c oil it still shows through.
Nope!
I’m looking for a good trim gauge. Any suggestions ?
Just out of curiosity, why didn’t you use the Graco to paint the base black?
Didn’t want to put dye in it.
Great video and nice table. Just a word up; India ink will fade with exposure to UV light, even in areas you think are protected.
Thanks for the info!
@@bentswoodworking I hope yours doesn't and you're luckier than me. I made a Federal style piece years ago and did the "feet" of the demilune table with India ink instead of using ebony because of the expense. After a couple of years they began to fade and the wood bled through. Maybe the ink these days is much better.
I hope it doesn’t fade! I recommended it 😂 but nothing I’ve used it on is getting a bunch of UV exposure. I suppose anything will fade overtime with too much exposure. But man it looks good! Nice work Jason
@@rhettdunn8788 I hope not either. My piece has always been away from windows and never been in direct sunlight but, still has. I used Montblanc ink at the time I did mine. It was the best I could find. Perhaps they are better now.
@@airnashville3883 that’s a little reassuring. Hoping it’s the brand. I used the India speed ink. And did a gloss finish over it. And the pieces I did that on still look brand new after a year and one of them is a kids table that gets used everyday
My favorite is renner 851 but it only goes up to 30 sheen.
I tried your India Ink finish. It came out Horrible. I pulled the finish off and went back to my black finish which is BLACK leather dye. I saved my project. However…. After 25 years of doing black finishes your finish would be excellent with a red boll under coating. Then rub thru your finish for a nice “Red Black Rub”. That is what we used on all of our Japanese / East finishes. I applied the Ink to poplar. It was really rough. I tried to knock it down with 0000 steel wool. It just got worse and worse. I threw it into Save the project mode. I used 100 grt sand paper then went to 220. Finished it off with 320grt. I applied my leather dye and it came out super clean. What did I do wrong? Any ideas? Not knocking you one bit. I love your work but this one went south FAST. Shoot me off a quick help reply. I sure would appreciate it. Thanks!
Hey Jason. I'm a woodworker too, which is why I'm subscribed to your channel, but I'm also into watches and I noticed you were wearing what looked like a Rolex GMT Master II in some of the vidieo and what looked like a Rolex Explorer II in other parts. Are you a watch enthusiast too?
I am a watch enthusiast, yes. Even thought the watches looked like Rolex those two were Seiko Mod watches. I have a few from a guy I found that builds them. I have others like Ball, Oris, Omega, and Tissot. No rolex yet but I’m looking. 👀
Jason what brand India ink did you use? Do you have a link to it ?
amzn.to/421oAoZ just added it to the video description as well
Awesome :)
Thanks 😁
Why do you put gloves on when using the jointer? I don't think I've seen that before.
Pro Tip: The Bessey clamp connectors work work with Jorgensen clamps. Close but no cigar. Ask me how I know. Thank you Amazon for your generous return policy.
Anyone know if India ink comes in other colors?
How do you compare the Graco sprayer to an HVLP system?
I prefer the Airless over the HVLP.
Where did you get that black blade for the Kapex?
It’s a Tenryu blade
What brand of India ink did you use? The ones I've experimented with were alcohol-based, so the dried ink (basically just carbon soot particles) rubbed off if you just looked at it funny. A shellac-based one sounds a lot nicer.
I believe it’s shellac based. Thats what I was told at least. Didn’t even think to look at the bottle. Lol
You mentioned when spraying there is no overspray. It doesn't get allover your tools either. I just built a brand new garage and setting up but want to be able to paint without a mess everywhere. I painted doors in an old shop and completely ruined the floor. Don't qant that happening here.
I don't want to be misleading, I don't mean there is no overspray at all, it is just able to be minimized quite a bit by dialing in the settings. Minimal enough for me to finish the way you saw in this video.
@@bentswoodworking okay great thank you. What machine are you using?
Off topic. Is that a Rolex explorer? If so nice taste. My dream watch.
It is not. I want a Rolex and am keeping an eye out. This is actually a Seiko Mod that a guy I know makes. Looks just like one though. 🤣
It's as if you are living in a luxury woodworking tool store. :D
Once again a nice video. I hope you do realise that wearing gloves on a jointer is quite dangerous? If you ever touch the spinning blades with a glove, your whole hand gets pulled in!
I liked the improvised version. It seemed to me that there were more pro tips than a conventional script.
I’m glad so many like it cause it was much easier to do 🤣
Very nice project, but can anybody explain to me why you stain perfectly beautiful wood. I think it is a total mistake to make wood look like plastic. By the way I would have treated the table top with a thin solution of natural soap (flakes or creamy) in water. Maybe with a small amount of chalk mixed into it to keep the natural light colour of the wood. After some appliances the table top is very easy to keep.Just use the same mixture or in between a moist cloth with pure water.
The first scene looked a lot like my kind of builds.
disappoint when I install it to find that 35 inch for the legs is way to high for a table (wife not happy) now I have to return in the shop for cut the legs Error in your plan that I pay????
I once bought a rockler tapering jig and immediately put it through the table saw cutting off the adjustable piece the first time i used it, rendering it unusable. $70 just wasted