Latest HVAC Trade Show: Highlights Tour of AHR EXPO 2023 (ERV, air cleaning, humidity, & heat pumps)
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Ventilation! Filters! Blue Lights! Dehumidifiers and humidifiers! Tankless heat pump water heaters!?! Lots to see this year, here are my thoughts on applications of some of these products and systems.
Take my Ventilation Training and learn all that I know about this complex topic: buildingperformanceworkshop.c...
0:20 Renewaire EV series ERV: www.renewaire.com/our-ervs/si...
2:27 Bath fans
3:13 Broan AI series ERV: www.broan-nutone.com/en-us/br...
5:08 Spinning enthalpy wheels
7:57 Side effects of active air cleaners
9:52 Electric fireplaces: equally romantic?
10:14 Passive house multifamily research on long-term ERV performance with Jason LaFleur
11:58 Make Up Air dehumidification option
12:50 Humidification for homes with SteamOVap Modulating Humidifier
14:27 Atmox crawlspace ventilation control system
16:31 Parmesan cheese
16:36 Sealed combustion or power-vented?
16:55 Party load mobile air conditioners
18:31 Mitsubishi Hyper Heat Sumo Heat Pumps: www.mitsubishicomfort.com/res...
19:49 Lennox's biggest customers are production builders (why does that sound so fishy?)
19:56 Mr. Cool DIY Ductless Mini Splits
21:59 Underground duct thought experiment
23:02 Reflectix duct insulation system
25:16 Problems with spray foam insulation for ducts
25:49 Flex duct configurations
27:55 Duct cleaning equipment
28:44 Tankless heat pump water heater?
32:54 Directional vents and Manual T
34:22 The only ceiling fans I saw at the whole show?!?
34:25 The most beautiful woman in the world
Learn more or consult with Corbett at: buildingperformanceworkshop.com/
Watch the first-ever TV series about the Science of Homes at: HomeDiagnosis.tv - Věda a technologie
Todd from Reflectix. It was nice meeting you. Thank you for stopping by our booth and explaining our product so well!!!
Hey Todd, thank you!
Love your sensible approach mate, often everyone is concerned about selling their product rather than what is best for the building. Over complicating residential hvac makes its incredibly hard to get the basics mainstream. In NZ, bringing in fresh filtered air is only normal in about 15% homes while up to 48% of homes suffer from some level of mold problems. Groups like Passive Home have a loud voice but its not suited for 90% of our new homes. Confusion just means builders just don't put in the basics. We install a range of products that are sensor driven, on demand supply together with sensor driven extraction fans for bathrooms and wet areas. Its as close to decentralised balanced ventilation as possible. Each zone has the right amount of ventilation/extraction for the zone. Its fairly simple. We don't heat bathrooms so there is no gain for most houses in having HRV in NZ yet the loud voices only have one tune. You should come for a trip down under. There are some exciting things happening here with Hydronic heating and cooling with ventilation.
Hey thanks gingerznz, you're the third kiwi who's urging us down there lately. If I can get the means, we'll make it happen!
Agreed on your points- keep up the good work!
Sounds about right with Lennox. Good ole boys hate when you actually want to ask questions. You can tell the people at the booth aren't your fans when they notice you are filming and start filming back like they are ready to argue lol.
Hahaha, single tear
Wow. I really get a feel for how much knowledge you've collected over the years. It's been a while since I've watched you. Great to see you're still excited about the topic(s)!
Thanks Brian!
I'm happy to see Corbett isn't hating too much on Mr. Cool's split system. I need so save money and that DIY friendliness is mighty tempting.
They had very good answers to the doubts I had- for what it is, I think it’s a solid choice honestly
And actually, you never can be sure the tech is meticulously setting Rifrigerant up,properly and balanced, and/or not introducing some water vapor (hard to avoid even for competent attentive techs) my one question would be though when you DO need to service the unit, will most hvac techs perform the work on a mr cool?? There is some great hardware out there that poses this same question, e.g., sanden/ECO2Co2 heat pump water heaters, CERV equinox -ERVs with heat pump, - etc.
My experience with mr cool is it’s almost impossible to find an hvac company willing to work on one.
I get that
I have been loving your videos. I've been in the HVAC trade for about ten years now, love how you get into all the details bro keep it up!
If you're getting yelled at for asking too many questions, your questions are home runs! Please, never stop!
Thanks as always Jeremy
I have yet to see anyone doing air source heat pumps with water or glycol based heat storage. Living in Montana, most of the REALLY cold times of the year happen at night. Using a heat pump during the day at 0°F to heat a liquid that can then be used as a battery for the -35°F night makes so much sense (similar concept to the water heater you covered here), but nobody is doing it, at least that I've seen. Did you see any manufacturers promoting an integrated system like this?
Not in residential-(yet)
You could build a system like that yourself; it's just an air to water heat pump hooked up to a hydronic buffer tank.
John Siegenthaler has a few articles and webinars about designing systems like that. The only real problem is that most of the heat pumps on the market tend to hit a wall in performance at water temperatures over 120F. That means you either need a HUGE buffer tank or some supplemental heat source, something like a gas or prone boiler.
@@ZergZfTw I was considering to design something like this . Outdoor unit in an attic , thermal solar panels on south wall of a house , heat naturally rises to a condenser which would heat water in storage tank during a day . There are hot temperature heat pumps on market not many and too expensive
the heatpump water heater is interesting but way too complicated. We did put a mr cool diy air handler. They have full variable speed now. It works great.
You need to do maintenance on systems that are full of mold, and I mean over 50-60% covered in black. Blue lights that are used as contact control do work. To your point, regular maintenance is also very important as you mentioned.
5 minutes of this and I subbed. HVAC has so much "snake oil" marketing it's always refreshing to have authenticity
Thanks very much
You know.. I didn't expect to watch this whole video. I merely clicked out of curiosity.
I just want to compliment your "go getter" attitude & knowledge, b/c... you just rolled with it, whether people were in the way or not.. I was actually kinda chuckling while watching this.
I might have even learned something from watching this.
👍🏽
8:00 im very surprised, would like to see more of a discussion about the blue uv light stuff.
Start here, more coming in our third season of Home Diagnosis soon:
HVAC IAQ Mythbusting with Dr. Jeffrey Siegel: Building Performance Podcast #90
czcams.com/video/hSFQQpgvgeo/video.html
the ie1 would work well for me in the summer. our tap water in the summer on the gulf coast is 88 degrees our warmer. . Once I took a hot shower, then when I went to turn it off, I realized that the hot was off, and only the cold was on, I got my temperature probe after that.
That precharged lineset idea is pretty neat if it works in practice.
Johnson Controls well Coleman had been using precharged line sets for at least 20 years with mobile home units. The old units didn’t have a line tap so you couldnt even take the refrigerant pressure.
Thx Chad- sounds like the new set may be an improvement with the patented fittings
That's some good trade show coverage! Just a few comments.
9:57 You know that there are wood burning fireplaces and stoves that use ducted outside air for combustion, right? They put out tons of heat with zero electricity usage; that's really useful in cold climates that get bad winter storms. Plus, are you even living if you can't enjoy the smell of a wood fire with a nice glass of single malt after a long day?
13:15 That's a cool looking humidifier, but I don't think you mentioned who makes it.
20:00 That MRCOOL system is interesting, but that's a whole lot of o rings you are relying on to seal in the refrigerant; that seems like a reliability nightmare. What are your thoughts about a factory sealed monoblock refrigerant system with a water/antifreeze distribution system? Installing a PEX A system and filling it with coolant sounds much simpler and more reliable than running refrigerant lines. Plus, you don't have the risk of a potentially toxic or flammable refrigerant leaking into your house.
22:00 You could also use an underground PEX loop and a water-to-air heat exchanger to get the same pre-cooling effect without the biohazard growth potential.
28:50 The Intellihot seems to be more of a reverse indirect tank than a tankless. The hydronic people have been doing that for years. Essentially, it's nothing more than a buffer tank filled with hot boiler water/antifreeze and a big coil of copper pipe with domestic water inside the copper. You could implement that same system yourself; all you need is an indirect tank (for which there are several manufacturers) and your choice of the heat pump; any high-temperature heat pump would do, either air-to-water or water-to-water with a groundloop for the heat source. You could also add a supplementary heat source like solar thermal, a propane boiler, or even a wood fired boiler for supplemental or backup heat. Another option would be a conventional buffer tank with a flat plate heat exchanger and a boiler side circulator activated by a flow switch on the domestic side piping.
Excellent points, my friend. The humidifier is from SteamOVap, and in my experience even direct-vent fireplaces are rarely perfect after all the details of manufacture and install are in place.
@@HomePerformance Re: Direct-Vent fireplaces. Would mastic on a the joints solve the concerns?
Reflectix Insulation was the duct insulation product, not listed in the featured products. For R8, HVBB48075 is 4’ by 75’ at about $285 per roll delivered. Supply houses may be cheaper, but most do not seem to be stocking it yet. Spacers are separate.
No one I see is putting in that bubble wrap correctly literally no company I go behind puts spacers between the insulation and duct(or whatever there insulating.
People tend not to follow instructions very well
Have you heard of Insulapack? I bought a roll of it for a job a while back. It claims R8 value without spacers due to the air bubbles being filled with a noble or inert gas. I think it worked well, but the bubbles didn't quite have the same strength as the Reflectix brand. If they could increase compression strength, they might have something good. I just can't stand fiberglass insulation anymore.
Have not heard of it, but interesting
19:53 getting a cam back lol. Lennox must have sent their C team to run their booth.
Would have liked to see Gree covered, saw them in the Mitsubishi AHU plexiglass reflection.
Next year maybe Matthew- tell me what I’m looking for, do many people trying to hawk so many things
I'm a big fan of having a wood fireplace or wood cook stove in a room decoupled from the homes air barrier with an combustion air intake.
If the power goes out I just open the doors to heat the house and I have a way to cook and heat water.
The enthalpy wheel that you're showing has literally been out for 15 years in the commercial field Energy recovery wheels are great concept they just don't work I've been to many buildings all over Virginia where they mandated them and they just don't do anything it's only good if you have a nice moderate weather outside air coming in nothing for humidity
I’m not surprised that Lennox is where they said to many questions. Cause they can’t answer them. I’m a HVAC contractor from Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Hey, nice Chad! One of my top Masterminds is in Tuscaloosa, you guys should connect! Thomas Smith, NRG Matters. He was an HVAC tech for decades, now does diagnostics and whole home analysis.
Regarding it if you’ve ever seen what they use in hospitals it’s a mobile rack very high light capacity-you have to leave the room while they disinfect . It does work however.
About foam sprayed ducts.
I live in climate zone 2b, I need R-12 ducts to be able to bury in cellulose. What if I laid ducts on a path of 2" Polyiso prior to the spray?
Would you feel that would keep the possibility of thermal bridging from touching a truss and be able to achieve a R value greater than 12?
Masonry fireplaces are my favorite form of heat. Little to no pollution, very efficient.
I like bananas
Yes, I love being stuck with a leaky brick and mortar fireplace taking up space 365 days a year. I also love chopping firewood and saving less on my heating bills with that wood than I would make working a minimum wage job. I'm so glad they didn't spend that money insulating the walls or air sealing so my AC wouldn't work as hard...
30:30 COP is how much energy it can transfer from outside air to inside (or vice versa)
300% = using 1 unit of electric energy to move 3 units of thermal energy in or out of the house
Good video. However I think you are missing the point of residential UV-C lights and may be mistakenly lumping them in with ionization and ozone producing variants. UV-C, sold for decades by Honeywell and others, keep the inside coil spotless and microbe free when combined with a media filter. The benefit is cleaner air and maintained high efficiency of the coil. On another subject, pre-charged line sets are a workaround to allow installation by non-licensed buyers. The vendor in question does offer traditional air handlers designed for retrofits or new installs into ducted systems, as does Mitsubishi and other mainstream "minisplit" manufacturers. With those "diy" air handlers, traditional copper line sets are cut to length, they are nitrogen pressure checked, vacuumed and placed into service by releasing charge from the outside unit. Instead of traditional brazing, these systems recommend flaring, a completely acceptable connection that avoids heat and internal oxide caused by incorrect brazing procedures.
By the way, uv-c bulbs are sold in two varieties; a low cost 185nm - 280nm version specified for outdoor ponds and the like and a higher cost 253.7nm version for indoor unit applications. The second type produces no ozone by blocking the 185 nm with special quartz glass tubes.
I hear you RJ, but it seems like the marketing people also urged most of those makers to sell the 'virus killing' part of the airstream treatment too lately, which is not only overoptimistic, if they're aiming at affecting the airstream at all it's definitely having the chemistry side effects we're worried about.
Also, if you hear HVAC researcher Jeff Siegel talk about the UV-C bulbs, any bit of aging, dust buildup, or imperfect maintenance of the bulbs will let their wavelengths slip and start producing ozone. Here's that interview in case you haven't heard it: czcams.com/video/hSFQQpgvgeo/video.html
Plus, if it was going to really really kill airstream particles, the air would have to go over that light so slow
What is your opinion on the best bathroom fan for air sealing? I had a blower door test done and apparently my bathroom fans don’t have back draft valves/ dampers
Broan Ultra is great, Panasonic as well- those are top tier
I can't see the logos in the video about the steam humidifiers. Who is the manufacturer of the humidifiers at 14:00?
It’s linked in the vid notes, company is SteamOVap
@@HomePerformance I should have realized that you had that covered. This is kinda like "read the comments" in an Instagram post. Thanks Corbett.
When you say "blue light" are you also including ultraviolet as well? My furnace has an ultraviolet light that stays on constantly, whether I'm using the system or it's sitting idle for weeks. What are your thoughts on this matter?
YES, that’s the main thing I’m referencing. It’s a chemical reactor.
My parents have been running the Ultimate air recoupaerator (now out of business) for a decade which is a rotating wheel exchanger similar to that display example. A decade old and It has ECM motors and quite high claimed efficiencies. Interesting how ahead of it's time it was. Shame that quality control seemed to bring the company down. Personally I'd love to have an enthalpy wheel ERV... but I'm also here watching this video.
Corbett do you know if either of these newer later capacity ervs from Broan or renewaire allow you to set /maiantin a positive 😂pressure in house ., or do they ‘force’ balance like zhender does? Anyone with any serious radon issue needs to have at least sl pos house pressure , even with a subslab exhaust system. Every other air quality issue is moot if you get lung cancer-voc, 2.5 particles , mold etc….
Yes, intentional unbalance is easy with either of those EC lineups. By the way, you just run the radon fan as hard as needed to get radon to ~0, and the side effect is whole home neg pressure- it’s the story with my own home right now. You’ll see me use one of these in an upcoming vid to try to fix that.
Glad I caught this, would love to consider the AI “series 2” product if they come out with this new larger size this year. No mention of it on their site yet.
@@HomePerformance Corbett- I am assuming you are running radon fan full to achieve lowest possible radon; is the pressure nowTOO negative in house ? Any idea what pressures you are achieve subslab, and Within house? I was led to believe broan ai will adjust to maintain original set cams on both supply and exhaust. Perhaps you could raise the erv cfm supply to house?
Radon fan is running at around 15% actually, achieving -.25 iwc in the pipe. I’ve adjusted the Fantech ERV’s dampers as far as they go to try and unbalance to even out the -2 Pa in the house, but EC fan motors are the better answer.
@@HomePerformance ah, the fan tech has physical dampers I presume then …then I can see you have also in the market for an erv that are ecm and capable of being unbalanced ! What number are your shooting For at this point re pressure in the house. Your subslab pressures are not extreme it seems; are you surprised that is able to depressurize your house that much ? Boy your house much be pretty tight . (By the way, any recommendations for a pressure meter that won’t require taking out a second mortgage? )
I always thought it would be a cool idea To have a copper piping system in the attic that preheated water into your water heater. You would have to have shut off valves and a way to drain it in the winter time when It got cold. I wonder if anyone has ever gone up and done this on their own.
Cooper pipes are expensive. Thermal solar panels are the way to go they are much more effective investment
Evaporator fan output on that heat pump tankless 😁😁
🚀
What. Brand is that modulating steam humidifier ??
SteamOVap
Hello hope you and your family are doing well.
Have a question about panasonic air repair that was at the show.
Don’t understand what it’s doing but so in general your thoughts yay nay or jury is still out.
Grace and Peace
Slick
My preferred plumber unfortunately only uses Lennox (we have a heat pump from them). What are things to look out for with Lennox?
Their biggest customers are the huge production builders themselves. Keep following for more about those companies.
All those dorks at the "Iaq" booths smiling thinking youre shooting B roll to PROMOTE their technology little did they know you were gonna ROAST it instead lol. 3 Pillars of IAQ for the win!
The Intellihot is interesting concept, any feedback on pricing? Will it be like the Sanden and far outside the reach of typical construction?
10k I think I heard.
ERV wheels generally perform better at the onset but quickly degrade. The more you know.
I would like to know what the drawbacks of having an oversized steam humidifier are. If you need 5 gpd and the humidifier can do 11 then it just runs about 1/2 the time. Educate me.
What do you think of single room ERV's?, I'm planing to make a tiny home, and it's going to be an one big room, would these big ERV's be a overkill for such a setup?
Video forthcoming, stay tuned
The new LEDs supposedly work at a wavelength that isn't harmful to the human eye compared to UV.
I’m more worried about chemical reactions
Why makes the modulating steam humidifier?
It’s linked in the vid notes, company is SteamOVap
That humidifier at 14:00 what brand is that?
SteamOVap
Humidification is dangerous, if you need several humidifiers in your home, you best find where the moisture is going. It isn't going down the kitchen sink. Love to see new products, when you showed Renew Air, you stated they are increasing control and you had a brochure in hand possibly showing some controls, however, when I went on their website, there were no controls. Any info you can share, Great video, good advice on not using light for air purification.. Thanks Roger Kjon
I understand with radical ions and spraying chemicals isn’t a great idea for homes.
I missed why uv lights aren’t a good idea.
If they’re just making and marketing it as a coil disinfection device, ok. But if they’re calling it an air purifier, then:
1. It doesn’t work, the air moves too fast in the ductwork
2. It’s chemically reacting other elements of the air
3. The corpses of microbes it does potentially kill are still floating in the air.
Filters are still the best way to go.
ERV - In general, the higher the CFM, the lower the effectiveness. So, don’t be so giddy about a small ERV having large volumes of airflow. Read the performance charts, buddy.
why an ERV when you have venting dehumidifier?
Pressure. You can’t use bath fans in a home as tight as ours, but you need spot exhaust from bathrooms. Hence, ERV is required.
@@HomePerformance so I have an ERV that runs all my bathrooms exhausts but it sucks up all the air and dumps outdoor humid air in the house when it runs. I was thinking of just using bathroom fans as my... bathroom fans.
Agreed, Blue Lights are a scam. Static tests prove UV-C light is highly effective in a relatively short time. Moving air past a single or double light at 500 FPM is another matter. Indoor air quality is a substructure process, not an additive process.
It would be much more educational to focus on one or two products and go in depth. Some of these products look interesting but your presentation did not go over practical application or comparisons to mainstream products and how these might be better. Most people looking at your videos have not spent the in depth study time that you have on how these systems work. I would prefer a more narrow but deeper introduction and practical benefits. Thanks.
Well, if you were a subscriber you’d get lots and lots of that
Mini splits need to be designed to make the connections under a cover from the front, instead of the back. Once you mount them on the wall the connections are in the wall and you cannot check them. I don't know how this defect has gone on for so long. Not every install is through the exterior wall...
The best lie contains some truth.
You cost me a bunch of money recently. I changed out my HRV to an ERV.
Corbett very cool, but can’t believe you weren’t wearing a mask at that super spreader event! Sure hope you isolated and Covid tested this week ! Stay well….
Hey John, I did wear one when I wasn’t shooting vids! Still got COVID!
No! Your face is a breeding ground! 😂
Broan ERVs are bad for the industry. As of 11-10-23, Broan does not have latent performance charts. Buyer beware.
R-8 Reflective Air bubbles - “It’s not the product, it’s how you install that’s so important.” This statement is just wildly inaccurate. #sad #fail
Am at a 5 stage heat pump with 2 stage ng 90% backup . 300cfm whole house hrv . The bed has its own hrv and heated bed jet fan . And occasionally supplemental browns gas
Wow
@Home Performance done got a ozone body suite and detox luggage bag . But for emergencies like i get oil on me still need chemical baths . The supplemental hydrogen really helps with the stress . But you build a tolerance
@@HomePerformance the house is just the first layer of the immune system