The Wrong Signal (Turkish Airlines Flight 6491) - DISASTER BREAKDOWN
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2021
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Twitter: / chloe_howiecb
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A Boeing 747 cargo plane on approach into Bishkek Kyrgyzstan inadvertently crashes into a residential area after flying past the airport. Turkish Airlines Flight 6491 attempted to landing in low visibility but unknowingly to the pilots the plane picked up a false instrument signal from the airport causing them to pass over the entire airport.
If you found this video interesting be sure to Subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. This video also went out to my Patrons 48 hours before going out on CZcams. You can join the Disaster Breakdown Patreon here from £3 per month: www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdown
Great video man! I really enjoy these disaster breakdowns
Do Facebook Profile Please..
One second you're living your life and the next a plane just plows through your community...
I love that you and Plainly difficult upload at the same time so I get a feature length double bill to watch every weekend
Ikr, saturday is such a blessed day even though I have to work
Ayyy, another Plainly fan. You have good taste.
Same here😃
👌
Fascinating Horror should change his time so we have even more to watch!
If the airport had marker beacons on the ILS, they would be a sure-fire way to know that everything is ok or something is wrong.
Usually there are 2 but sometimes 3 of these beacons. There is a simple flashing light and a tone in the cockpit when passing over them and on the approach chart the altitude is given.
Every ILS I've ever flown had these beacons and every time, I checked my altitude with the chart.
False ILS signals are very rare but they do happen, usually when the system is being worked on. A few crashes have happened when the ILS is listed as 'out of service' but the pilots tune to it and it works so they assume it's good but in reality it is giving false signals.
But what would it be doing there in the first place. Now I know of ILS being worked on but in those instances it would provide you with the incorrect slope, I think we are missing a big chunk of information here.
Isn't it SOP to cross check ILS DME to the appropriate altitude listed on the approach chart to ensure you are on a correct glide slope? Like for example an ILS approach at an altitude of 2000 FT, with a GP of 3 degrees, the plane will intercept the ILS Glide Slope at 5.5 NM from runway threshold. Or is it possible to false ILS signal gives out wrong DME information to the pilots?
@@junrenong8576 Not all ILSs have DME indications, that's what the marker beacons are for.
But yes, if DME is available, you'd use it to verify that the ILS.
@@junrenong8576 Planes have crashed with ILS available too so nothing is 100% fool proof
We lost a cargo pilot which was so identical to this accident you could simply change the names. At KCAE the last small freighter out was a small twin which flew bank work. He was young and iirc was his first paying flight position. A few times a year we get really thick ground hugging fog. Even UPS were going missed but he wanted to "take a look". He overflew the runway level and then descended off the end centered on GS right into thick trees. The plane burned for hours and eventually a helicopter spotted it when the fog started burning off. I was part of the crew to secure, help document and remove the aircraft. Pressure to get in and inexperience were the final determination.
The crazy thing is that Travis Barker was also involved in an fatal accident at KCAE. I know which crash you are talking about with your cargo pilot. What a shame and I hope he RIP and everybody else could process this tragedy and move on.
@JIMJAMSC Was it a Beechcraft C90 or a Volpar 18 ?
I love the gentle background music, you could be saying “the pitot tube was blocked therefore the pilot wasn’t getting accurate readings and subsequently crashed into the Atlantic Ocean killing all 183 people aboard” and it would still sound so nice
I find it very strange that the two runways, 08 and 26 at that airport shared the same frequency for the ILS approach. Sounds like a real recipe for a false glideslopes attributed disaster waiting to happen.
It kind of sounds like that’s what happened in this case by where the plane ended up. It’s crazy they would have descended into that big mountain range earlier if the atc didn’t save them from themselves by denying their request to go lower.
You neglected to explain why they're was a false ILS signal - but I learned about how this happens in another channel's video (I'm not a pilot and I'm just going from memory here)... The way the ILS works, there are "echoes" of the beacon above and below the actual one. So if you are intercepting the beacon at more or less the correct altitude, you'll intercept the correct one. But if you are way too high or way too low, you could intercept the false signal first.
"why they are was a false ILS signal" xD
Because he had the localizer but not the glideslope.Any alert captain and ATC should make sure he is established on both parts of the ILS.Also do they not have VASIS here as a visual indication of whether he's too high or too low?
You give Malfoy vibes. “You didn’t explain it BUT I CAN” like wtf
I think because his channel is disaster breakdown and not full explanation of flying technology. I would however love to see this channel breakdown alot of these safety technologies in greater detail for the less aeronauticaly inclined. Thanks to you for expanding on the ILS and thank you to Disaster Breakdown for the great informative content!
English 10/10
Moral? Don't build housing at the end of the runway.
Never build in the drop zones at either end of the ruaway.
Man, imagine being in your home, just in your daily routine, and your life is ended by an airplane crashing through your house. RIP to all those people and prayers for family and friends ❤
This channel does an amazing job . Works hard every week to create a weekly video
Reminds me of Invicta Airlines flight 435. That plane crashed in Switzerland after ILS locked onto a false beacon, which was created by accident by the Swiss national energy grid, as the frequency of grid control systems sent over high voltage power lines through the mountains was close enough to the frequency of the Basel-Mulhouse airport ILS beacon that the aircraft locked onto a power line up a mountainside.
My Grandfather was the investigator who looked into that crash, which took place in 1973. He had a lot of very critical recommendations for improvements to ILS procedures. Seems they weren't universally followed
Enjoy your break - it’s well deserved! Have a great week!
Melih ASLAN was the loadmaster and İhsan KOCA was the maintenance engineer. I miss them a lot. RIP 😭😭😭Thanks for the video.
"Miscellaneous consumer products out of Hong Kong." = "Maverick, if you screw up just this much, you'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong!"
i see what you did there
lol
Thanks for video 👍❤
Love your Chanel keep it up
Thanks, will do!
Hello and thanks for the videos
I have been waiting! thank you for getting me into aviation 🙌🏾
BISH KEK LMAO im sorry i just cant😂😂😂
I love your channel, keep up the great work :)
Your channel is seriously excellent. Very sad crash on this one.
Very understandable presentation. Thank you for your work.
Enjoy your break.
Nice job.
I love your videos but I had to laugh at using a completely different plane to test the possibility of catching a false ILS signal. They weren't gonna use the one that crashed. I guess maybe if the ILS equipment from the accident plane survived, they could put it in another plane to test it.
I've landed at that airport [as a passenger] twice. Not a fan.
11:25 - given that 17 children died, I'm not surprised that the captain died on the way to the hospital. If he wasn't already fatally injured, I suspect that the people on the ground would've 'helped' him on.
Am I the only one that thinks the all white plane livery is so cool
The captain intended to do a go-around, but the plane wouldn't climb--why not? Isn't that actually at least the proximate cause of the accident? Such a tragic story--so many lives lost including all those children...Also, there can be a "false signal"?! WTF is that about, and why would the biggest priority in response to this crash not be to get rid of that false signal???
I have landed at this airport at 6 am just a day before this accident. I remember that morning, the fog was so thick , i couldnt see anything
I don’t know how you do this I watched a video on about on mini air crash investigation’s channel yesterday that’s crazy
Keep up the work. Love watching these videos. Any chance will you reviews United Airlines flight 232 or TWA flight 800?
Hey, what is your connection to the "Mayday series"? Just curious. ✌‼
I don't understand this accident.
Capt was so worried about being too high when crossing those mountains - why? What made him so nervous?
Capt was wayyyy too high at TOPKA and a quick check would have told him so long in advance - why did he deviate in altitude by 3000ft when he previously was so concerned? Why was altitude no longer an issue?
I have never seen a crash where the company so quickly promises monetary reimbursements to the victims, it was done in what felt like just a few hours*. Why this rapid?
---
*clarification: I followed this when it all unfolded back in 2017 and they were almost expecting this crash? I don't get it. Did Capt speak to company before the CVR erased it?
Didnt ATC Not allow further decent due to mountainous area? Or i got it wrong.
@Sverige at TOPKA, ATC had only cleared him down to 9,000, that is why he was so high. He was concerned because he knew he could be lower, however, ATC would not clear him to be lower.
Once he was told he could descend he should have slowed to make it in the space available .. He was far to fast in the descent.. He had time to descend if his speed was correct but he was eating up distance in relation to his nominal intercept altitude all the time.. TBF in his head he probably didnt think this would be an issue but the hidden consequence was the plane was too high when it intercepted the signal and therefore picked up the false ILS.
@@ightenhillsim I don't understand this and I think the false ILS part could use some more explanation. I thought if a "secondary harmonic radio lobe", that is, a false upper/lower beam, is intercepted, the resulting glideslope will still lead to the start of the runway, it will just be more steep or more shallow than it should have been. What seems to have happened here is it led the plane to the end of the runway? How is that even possible?
I have wait to maybe new episode for half a year but this only a week
You forgot Joé Bérkéy
😃😃👍👍
Could you elaborate on what changes were made because of this crash?
Localizer is not a radio beacon. Frequencies are not manual tuned on the 744. Dont show a COM radio for a meant NAV radio which is not on board. Many facts are not proprt investigated. Sorry
Just realized there is so many countries with Stan in the name lol
Because Stan means “ land of”
Eg Uzbekistan land of Uzbek
How did you manage to read koca as koka
It’s misleading to cast blame the airport’s “false” glide slope. False glide slopes exist on every ILS approach. Trying to intercept the glide slope from above sets you up to intercept a false 9 or 6 degree glide slope before getting down to the correct 3 degree slope. Descending in a hold over TOPKA would’ve taken about 4 minutes and put them back inbound at 6000’.
Don’t understand why a pilot so obsessed with descending and being to high for an approach would then fly 3,500 higher than the published normal height. First he was mad because he couldn’t fly into mountains, and then when he could safely descend to vector onto the glide scope he’s flying thousands of feet to high. I’m wondering if he has his airports mixed up in his mind.
Because he knew he was too high. As it's said before, the captain pilot used the same airport many times before. The thing is, for some reason, ATC didn't clear him down to 6,000 at TOPKA. The crash was mostly the airports mistake. Giving false ISL signals. Not warning the pilots about their high altitude. Not warning the pilots about their high speed. Very bad.
That’s completely incorrect to blame the airport’s glide slope. False glide slopes exist on every ILS approach. Trying to intercept the glide slope from above sets you up to intercept a false 9 or 6 degree glide slope before getting down to the correct 3 degree slope.
Commenting for the algorithm C:
Soundslike a case of 'gethere-itis'
Will you do the September 11th attacks next Saturday next week? That would be way to honor those that lost their lives and give their own lives to save others on that day for the 20th anniversary be great 👍!
From Disaster Breakdown's last community post; "I know multiple people have asked if I'm going to cover the events 9/11 given the 20th anniversary this year. Unfortunately not at the moment. I would be interested in covering it but we'd be looking at a massive video that I don't have the time to make right now."
USoA invaded over the course of recent decades several countries. They also have the audacity to call themselves americans, while true Americans have faced genocide.
I'm not a pilot but i watch a lot of these sort of things. Automatically i put confusion or
irritation by a pilot on fatigue as this is long haul and controllers can vary in quality.
What i can't accept is the ability for any aircraft to pick up a false ILS and for systems to
allow for a landing based on that data when lives are at stake.
It's a limitation of the physics of the radio signals. I'm not well inclined towards the math of radios, signals, and electromagnetism in general, but, as I understand it, just projecting the two lobes of signal and causing them to interfere with each other usefully basically has to give false signals. We can predict where the false signals are, and we can make sure they're far enough apart from the true signal to make it incredibly obvious whether or not it's the correct signal, but, as happened here, you still have to have the spare headspace and brain-power to remember to check.
😢😢😢😢😭😭😭😭
How is it possible to pick up the wrong signal?
I am not familiar with the technology, I was expecting it to be an unmistakable kind of signal for the approach points
They can pick up reflected signals in mountainous regions. Rock faces are like mirrors for radio signals.
They captured a false glideslope which was much steeper than the proper one. It’s an inherent issue with the ILS system, and why cross-checking altitude is so important.
@@nonja well that definitely makes me want to check the weather forecast for my upcoming flight
@@Luka_menorykee usually airports have different localizer frequencies so this doesn't happen. You don't need to worry
Too bad you showed the passenger 747 in the flight sim.
But, I can’t even imagine the captain survived for a bit at all 😨
Maybe he dont have any cargo 747 liveries on his xplane or fsx
You have a wonderful channel. Definitely worth attention.
I'm a big fan of aviation. :)
You might want to pay attention to the Turkish name pronunciations though; it's not Dur-an-sii; it's Duran-cı (read the c as a quicker version of j)
I can help you out if you are interested.
'The wrong signal' - and wrong airline: ATC, not Turkish Airlines.
Can someone please explain how the ILS can give off a false signal? And what is to prevent the at any other airport from giving out a false signal?
I believe the ILS echoes a signal above it and below it. So if the plain intercepts the ILS at the correct altitude then it doesn't get the echoes (aka the correct signal). If it intercepts it to high or too low, then it'll get the echoes (aka the false ones)
You what would be awesome if 747s were painted like cars, candy apple red, metallic royal blue raspberry, glossy jet black with some carbon fiber wings, etc lol
I stopped flying years ago. It's only on CZcams you see how bad it was compared to now, tho an over reliance on super technology is making pilots, well not pilots old school. One big miss is the human flight engineer who can spot & give warnings & stop bad events ie telling the pilot to pull his finger out. Pilots are the biggest risk now.
that's why a lot of airlines value military pilots because they still have critical thinking skills, most of the commercial pilots rely on technology nowadays (unfortunately)
Where were the false ils signals coming from?
From the other side of the runway. Each side of the runway has a localizer. Because the plane was so high the ils thought it was going for the other end of the runway and suggested a wrong glideslope
@@ThePlanemadness thanks for the explanation. I thought it was picking up an erroneous signal for some reason but your explanation makes perfect sense.
It may be that the same frequency was serving both sides of the runway. But in some conditions you can get echos of the localizer beacon. Generally well above and well below the correct glide slope. You should not be locking onto the echos unless you are seriously too high or too low for the approach. And both the pilots and ATC should be able to quickly spot that as the plane would be seemingly locked on the localizer beacon, but not the glide slope one. Captain had only 2 prior landings at the airport, a small airport, barely adequate for a 747, late at night in heavy fog, with the Captain and ATC in conflict over desired altitude as they neared their approach. Yep, nothing at all unstable about that approach. I may have to research this one a bit more. Why were they unable to successfully do a go around? What were the final findings with regard to the crash? And OMG those poor people at home sleeping in their beds when this airplane plowed through them. Any air crash is horrifying, but there is something so much worse when they cause this much death and destruction on the ground as well.
Pacific
Next episode: "Deadly Descent" Cathay pacific flight 780
i wouldn't call that a deadly descent as no one died
Cool
I love he says how does airplane crash right off the end of a runway my first thought as an engineer is a loss of lift just from that statement
I'm so sick of the one the most experienced pilots and how the fck a modern plane can do this or that.
Make up your damn mind. Imperial or metric system?!!
a lot of my cargo is also fed through the nose
4 minutes in ,,im just gonna say ,,it was set for metres, but should have been feet,,
edit to come..
Blank livery works on a 747 very well
Terrible.
Turkish Airlines? Isn't that like the pride of Zack Snyder?
🤔
This video could still use more Turkish Airlines.
Why can't planes use GPS?
Because gps is not too accurate i guess
The can
Super early
Jesus, why does this matter and why do people do these comments?!?
Get a life.
@@Luka_menorykee chill I’m boosting the video
@@jaisabai4155 chill I’m boosting the video
This not Turkish airlines flight you wrong bud.........
What? So which airline is it then?
🤡
Who runs that aiport??? A false ILS? Not acknowledging that the plane is too high? Not acknowledging the speed when pilots indicated the exact facts to the traffic control???
@ 4:25 the Narrator says, “pacific” instead of, “Specific”!! Wowww…
Like a little kid. Yikes…
How can there not be a foolproof ils at approach ?
I hear your vocal inflection at about the FIFTH WORD of a sentence and then NEAR THE END OF A SENTENCE!!
hehe sry for laughing but..... even at that moment the pilot said "brother" like all turks do
:)