Debating the 2019 candidates for the Baseball Hall of Fame
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- The Michael Kay Show crew discusses the latest ballot for the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and which contenders should be inducted and which ones should be left out. Subscribe for daily sports videos!
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Edgar Martinez yes yes yes yes.
He deserves
Edger Martinez deserves to be in the hall of fame
Writers not voting for Edgar because he was a DH is a joke. Frank Thomas and Molitor played MORE GAMES at DH than they did in the field and they made the HOF on the first ballot.
Frank Thomas was a .300 career hitter with 500 plus HR and won multiple MVP awards...Paul Molitor had 3300 hits and a world series MVP...Martinez has no milestones, awards or championships...Youre comparing apples and oranges. Its not even close
@@ericpantalone5229 So you are one of these people who believes a player needs "milestones" to get in the Hall of Fame. By your flawed logic, Koufax should be REMOVED from the Hall of Fame. After all, the fucking guy only had 165 wins. He didn't even get 2,400 Ks. Don't give me some stupid reply about "Koufax is an exception." NO!!! According to you, a player needs MILESTONES that Koufax didn't have. Therefore, he is not worthy. Edgar was one of the best hitters in the AL during his career. His numbers from 1995-01 are off the charts. And your argument about "championships" is fucking retarded. You are going to punish a player for not being on a World Series winner? Then that means Ernie Banks, Ron Santo, Billy Williams, Fergie Jenkins, Harmon Killebrew, Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza, Kiner, and a shitload of others need to be removed from the Hall of Fame because none of those guys won anything either. And AWARDS are also a prerequisite of getting into the HOF according to you? Then take Nolan Ryan out. The fucking guy never won a Cy Young award. Eric, you might be the dumbest person on the planet.
@@brentshira3373 ummm ok Brent. Let's see.. No, I'm not one of those guys. But you need SOMETHING!! You want to take all the criteria off the table and make your own guidelines...Wow. good thing idiots like you dont get a vote.
@IceCreamMan 79 WS mvps are more relevant than Silver Sluggers..nobody cares about silver sluggers..
@IceCreamMan 79 You're cherry picking stats. So he led the league in s few things. I can name countless that have and are not in the hall of fame. But either way, I'm not debating his candidacy. I'm saying he isn't in the same league as Thomas and Molitor for that matter. And obviously the voters agree this far
Edgar Martinez & Todd Helton are very deserving simply for what they provided their respective teams.
Rob Gronkowski Todd helton is a hall of famer.. your just a dumb idiot
Stopped caring when Harold baines got in
It’s so stupid that people like Griffey don’t get votes in unanimously. If Mo isn’t unanimous then these people really should not be voting
Louis Misiaszek it’s because some voters knew he would get in so they voted for others so they could stay on the ballot
What about Ed Kranepool?
Of these, Rivera, Jeff Kent, Fred McGriff, and Edgar Martinez should be in.
If McGriff had 500 home runs he'd be in.... He's got 493. Let the guy in!
Loved watching Mariano Rivera. I miss the feeling of security as Yankees fan, knowing with a 1, 2, 3 run lead in the 9th, we hear Enter Sandman and Mo is going to close it out for us to get the win. He didn't always save the game. But he always kept his composure, bounced back the next time he was called on, and always remained humble. Can't wait to see him get inducted into the HoF.
I know Michael Young doesn't have the numbers because his career doesn't have the longevity, but when you look closely at his career, I feel he should be in the hall. Today we talk about Altuve and how his avg is over .300 consistently, how he's hitting 20 home runs and gets 200+ base hits. Michael Young had 6 seasons with 200+ hits (including 5 straight seasons), 7 seasons with .300+ batting average, 6 season with 90+ rbis. I just think he shouldn't be so easily dismissed.
4:49
Thanks, Don. Hoffman was soooo overrated, couldn't save a big game to save his life.
Yet Mariano Could Ha Ha Ha Mariano Loves The Big Moments
So if you play in Colorado that automatically exclude you from the Hall of Fame they might as well get rid of the team then
I am a Mariners fan and it feels so good people are starting/have been recognizing the fact that Edgar Martinez was such a great batter it shouldn't matter if he didn't field. He should be the second man wearing a Mariners hat in the HOF. And I truly feel its not just bias growing up watching him, I grew up with Freddy Garcia and I agree hes not a HOFer. I do think Helton is, and Halladay. Well for certain Ichiro will be second Mariner in if its not Edgar but I hope it will be someday (and I mean reasonably soon and not 150-20 years).
Robot Willie.
What did Edgar martinez do that Richie Allen did not do as well or better ?
Allen was a better hitter (ops + same as Mays and Frank Thomas) a way way way better baserunner ,and ( if only by forfeit) worth more defensively..It is not even close .Of course Allen is not in the hall of fame
Mo is a given.
Moose + Pettite are closer to being HOF'ers in my opinion than Curt Schilling or a HOF'er like Jack Morris, but not 1'st ballot.
There's a TON of close calls in this class.
Moose ya, pettite no. Pettite was never an ace. He was just lucky he was on great teams. He’s kinda like Robert Horry. Right place at the right time, but nothing special. Good player, not great. Was never the best pitcher on his team.
Here's what will happen: Mo, lock. Halladay, lock. Helton, no, numbers too inflated by Denver. Pettitte, not in a million years. If Mussina and Schilling aren't in, no way Pettitte makes it. Edgar, he just barely makes it because it's his final year on the ballot. None of the other players previously eligible will make it.
Fred McGriff should be easy. The guys taking roids hurt McGriff because while guys were hitting 50,60,70 home runs McGriff was consistently hitting 35,40 every year. .284 career hitter batted over .300 many times in his prime. And he’s a World Champion and was a clutch hitter in the postseason.
Helton is in. Writers cant hate on parks and states that are approved by the league..jesus baseball get with it.
If Helton gets in then walker should get in nough said
My top 10 hof if i were to vote....lets debate
1 mo
2 clemons
3 bonds
4 sosa
5 Holliday
6 edger
7 manny
8 moose
9 Sheffield
10 walker
Mariano Rivera (that's not even a question), Todd Helton (Probably), Andy Pettitte (Yes, but not first ballot), Roy Halladay (Yes), Edgar Martinez (he has waited long enough, YES)!!! Clemens and Bonds(their final year on the ballot), Mussina (Yes, may take another year), Schilling (keep your mouth shut, great postseason pitcher, yes, may take 2-3 more tries)
The thing with Sheffield is he never stuck around anywhere long enough to point and say "his time playing for (insert team here) was so dominant" that you can't dispute his case, nor could you make a case for any teams cap being on his plaque
That’s not a good reason to keep someone out of the hall. Based on his numbers he should definitely get in.
@@HT-sm9dm yeah it is, a hall of fame should be able to stay with one team longer than five years. The best thing Sheffield did was hit 500 home runs in an era where aot of guys hit 500 home runs. He's not a hall of famer.
@@camoveteran2219 on second thought I agree that he’s a borderline candidate. But I still don’t agree with the notion that 5 years or some arbitrary number with one team is a requirement for induction. I do agree that he put up numbers in an era where it seemed every team had 2 to 4 guys putting up .300 and 30+ homers so that would make his numbers look less spectacular.
Roy Halladay,Larry Walker,Andruw Jones,Edgar Martinez
There is no excuse for voting against Mariano. I've been a Mets fan my whole life, but Mariano is so clearly the GOAT when it comes to closers, it's not even funny. Eck and Goose were great, but they didn't do it for 20 years like Mo.
Larry Walker played 30% of his career games in coors
Omar has to be in. 11 gold gloves, 2,877 hits. Comon
Yes, yes, yes for Edgar and this guy got it right with exclamations.
It is a shame Edgar isn't in yet!!! THEY HAVE AN AWARD NAMED AFTER HIM !!! Because they don't account DH.
Edgar and Crime Dog deserve to be in, no doubt!
Sosa is a HoF
I wish that there was a base criteria for the Hall of Fame, such as 300 wins, 3,000 hits, .300 avg., 500 HR's, etc., less nostalgia, sentimentality.
Sorry butI hate the "he played on Coors Field asterisk". Helton should def be in, just look at his stats. Edgar should get in, McGriff should get in, Bonds, Clemens and Moose should all get in.
Gossage & Fingers pitched in the days when relievers weren't set up to have pretty stats. Rivera was good at the job he was set up to have & his numbers can't be seen as better, compared to the 70s.
I am not making an argument for Edgar Martinez when I say this, but there is something odd about a baseball writer who says that Martinez should not be a HoFer because he was a DH most of his career, yet has no problem with guys like Mazeroski, Rizzuto, or Joe Tinker being in the HoF because they were outstanding defensive players who were light on the hitting.
Now, I understand the comeback here- "Well, at least those guys did play both sides of the field, but Martinez didn't." Fair enough. But if Martinez would have been a LF or 1B his entire life, and had the hitting stats he did while playing the field like Willie Aikens or Greg Luzinski, would those guys suddenly have a change of heart and say, "Well, Martinez was a horrible, horrible fielder who should have been a DH his whole life, but at least he played the field so we will vote him in"?
I don't know about the whole "He's a DH so he shouldn't be eligible" argument. It kind of reminds me of people arguing against Larry Walker or Todd Helton because they played in Colorado, when it wasn't their fault that they played there. But maybe there's something to it. Anyone care to comment?
Lonnie Craig I agree. The whole premise behind Martínez getting in is so complex. I have had a change of heart recently and think Martínez should get in. I do get the argument that he didn’t play both sides, however, just like you said players who weren’t great hitters but great defenders get in. Some people put defense over offense, and some put the offense over no defense. Lost in the shuffle are players like Torri Hunter who win many gold gloves and are solid hitters. If Martínez gets in players like Hunter definitely deserve to get in, as well as Larry Walker and Todd Helton who played good defense.
I hear you. It seems a bit contradictory for someone to say that guys who were great-field/no-hit players, like Mazeroski and Rizzuto, should be in, but great-hit/no-field players like Martinez should not.
Now, there is one flaw in my argument- someone could come back and say, "Well, at least Mazeroski and Rizzuto did play both sides, even if one side was poor." To which I would say, "That's true, but if you play one side so poorly that it would be better for the team if you didn't play that side, then maybe something should be done about it." I know that Rizzuto, except for his MVP year in 1950, was overall a detriment to the offense of the Yankees (how much of one can be debated, of course), but I don't know much about Mazeroski. I get the impression that Mazeroski was inducted primarily because of the HR he hit in the 1960 World Series, but I do know he was a defensive beast at 2b.
@@willster8759 martinez was an above avg defender at 3B before he injured his hamstring.
Manny Ramirez should be in the hall in the fame
Larry Walker definitely a hall of famer
Dave Roberts might have something to say about Rivera.
Wait what about pujouls?
Edgar Martinez!
The debate on users of PEDs should be this clear: Was there a rule against PEDs and were they tested and disciplined for it? If the answer is no and the numbers are good enough, then they should be in.
If a player of this era hits 400 during a season he be suspicious of something right? and you know what I understand that but what if I told you that Ty Cobb did 3 times so how he did it?🤷🏻♂️
Looks to be a fine line between having good enough numbers for the Hall and where the line is where you aren’t accused of doping.
Halladay should be automatik
Roy Halladay and Mariano Rivera are getting in as rookies. Edgar Martinez gets in on final year. Mike Mussina gets in next year.
If no for helton because of Colorado air then every pitch there should win the cy young every year if it can't be fair one way it should be the other way. lets not forget his defense 07 he had what a single error? Come on guys if he had played in new York ya know he would be a no doubter
Probably shouldn't have said 'no' on Lance Berkman so quickly. To me, he was borderline. I'd say 'no' after careful consideration, but wouldn't look at it as a bad HoF'er if he were inducted. 366 HR's, .903 career OPS, (.406 career OBP), 144 career OPS+. 51.9 career WAR makes it iffy for me. But definitely deserves strong consideration.
Breaking News !! Yankees aquire Paxton from Mariners. Justus Sheffield + 2 prospects dealt.
Fairly steep price for a guy with injury history.
@@kevaninthe4135 Yeah I don't know what to think of it. I would have prefer to keep Sheffield.
Marianowas the best ever at it. And Edgar tore him up .576/.626/1076. Beat that...
Let Mariano in. A first Ballot no brainer. I'd vote for Moose because his numbers for steroid era are exceptional. Sheff never had a positive test. I'd vote for him.
Barry never failed a test either
Mo missed a full season. +40 additional saves?
The whole idea that guys don’t vote for guys because they don’t think they are first ballot Hall of Famers is insane. People that do that shouldn’t be voting, but for the most part I think people are voting strategically to keep other people on the ballot. This would all be fixed if people couldn’t fall off the ballot. If you had to actually vote guys off the ballot as a side thing that would be different and allow a way to free up the ballot and prevent border line HOFers from falling off. Also there are a lot of guys overlooked who have great stats simply for where they played or their reputation, nothing about the player they were. Quite a few mentioned that he said no to I think are borderline or HOFers.
My favorite era of baseball
Walker's road OPS was better than Griffey Jr's. He should be in.
Could Mo put those numbers up in San Diego?
Could Hoffman put those numbers up in New YorK?
DON'T GIVE ME HOFFMAN ISN'T IN THE SAME BUILDING; Mo's the best but let's not get crazy...
Yes, and maybe. The peripheral numbers are pretty strongly in Mo's favor. Mo has a better HR/9 than Hoffman, for example, the difference of which would only increase if you switched their home ballparks. I like Hoffman a lot, but Mo is clearly head and shoulders above him.
Omar Vizquel is a Hall of Famer...argubly the best defensive SS of all time, 11× Gold Glove Award and almost 3000 hits.
true, better than ozzie... but omar dumb name, couldnt do flips. didnt hit one homer run in post.
I expect Edgar to get in, he got 70% give or take last year, and typically, players get more support their last year on the ballot
Edgar Got 85% Of The Votes
If a closer can get in then a DH should get in.
Did he just say Benny Agbayani? The dude from the Mets.
What are these guys’ names?
Sammy sosa is a hall of fame......sosa and mcgwire helped rejuvenate mlb from all the homer runs.....sosa shouldnt even be a questiom
your nuts
Jeff Kent? Come on. Great player but not popular. If the giants had 2 hoffers in the middle of their lineup why didnt they win anything?
It's not uncommon for that to happen. Throughout his career in Detroit, Ty Cobb had at least one other HOFer as a teammate, yet they played in just 3 WS and lost each of them. From 1978-1992, the Brewers had two HOFers in Robin Yount and Paul Molitor and they made just 2 postseasons and didn't win a WS. It has also happened multiple times with many other teams throughout history. I don't think Kent is a HOFer myself, but this line of thinking is just wrong.
@@ryanaltfillisch7155 Yeah those are good points and good look at the history of teams with 2 greats who didn't win. It would be a real shame to see Kent go in the Hall instead of/before Bonds. Kent's biggest claim to fame, right or wrong, is being Bond's nemesis.
This guy says no to Andy Pettite, Gary Sheffield & Larry Walker? Did he somehow sleep the last 30 years? Andy Pettite is one of the best Yankees of all time. His post season record alone is enough to get him in.
No he (Pettitte) isn't. His postseason numbers are basically the same as his regular season numbers (which aren't HOF quality, either)
i agree his post ios right up there with schilling. better career season stats than schilling. schilling did get better after age 33....wonder why
sweetlou shouldgetin
garyshetfield derickjeter
What about Derek Jeter
Mo goes with every vote. bonds, clemens, edgar, moose, manny, curt schilling, sheffy all should get in and then rolen sosa, omar, and pettite are debatable
Mariano won't get every vote. Whether it's because he's a "closer", or because no one has ever been unanimous, or both, I guarantee that some voters won't vote for him
McGriff. Yes
Mussina was a much better pitcher than Pettitte. I don't think anyone really argues that - not sure what's going on in Don's head here.
So yes to Edgar Martinez, Jeff Kent and no to Andrew Jones, Manny and Sammy Sosa... smh
No David ortiz
Harold Baines. No.
Luis Sojo Hall Of famer
Larry walker a better player than any of these guys not named Clemens or Bonds...
Barry bonds yes
jeter in hall of fame yet???
Going to avoid discussing PED suspicion players... but, the HoF is a joke now. I loved Jack Morris and Trammel. Doc Hallady was incredible for a few years. I hate the Yanks. That said, Jack Morris (Mr. Big Game) and Trammell should not be in. Harold Baines shouldn’t even have been considered. Edgar Martinez and Rivera are the only two (Bonds and Clemens if you look past PEDs) who should get ANY votes.
I agree that whoever doesn't vote for Mariano Rivera has a stupid stupid stupid reason. It's not about how many votes some other guy got 50 years ago. Does he belong there or not? There's only one serious answer to that question. Whoever votes against him should lose their credentials.
mariano won't get 100 percent of the vote
Mo, Edgar, and Halladay should be in. Pettitte no
You Called It They Got In
McGriff would have been in the HoF the minute he retired if he boosted his numbers with roids
Yes for Michael Young he is so underrated
My 10 votes
1. Rivera
2. E. Martinez
3. Mussina
4. Bergman
5. Oswalt
6. Kent
7. McGriff
8. Rolen
9. Walker
10, Wagner
Ok Guys! Want Barry Bonds in hall of fame? Why don't let Pete Rose in it, finally? That's fair better.
What's the big deal playing in Colorado?
Because of the high altitude, it's a notoriously hitter-friendly ballpark
Ellande Campbell exactly, look at tulowtizi and compare his numbers with Colorado and when he left the team. His numbers dropped significantly
@@datrandompersononyoutube3061 Injuries will do that to you, just look at Griffey Jr. in the Reds.
@@ellandecampbell6279 what I don't get about that is, how does that change how a pitcher throws?
Kurtis Hendrix: I imagine that it gets in the pitcher's head (at least occasionally). It certainly helps the hitter
damn Manny Ramirez
Jose Gonzalez manny men I’m sad 😞 about manny I think he’s the best hitter ever
I Love The Fact In The Bigs 2 They Gave Manny Ramirez Legendary Power And Legendary Contact
How do u say yes to Sheff, and no to Sosa? WTH?
Keith _ That's easy. Yes to Sheff. No to Sosa.
Rolen is SNEAKY HOF.
Forget about Curt Shillings politics? It's the only thing I like about him, shut up Michael...
Michelle Cassella you’re funny
Michelle Cassella shilling came up couldn't throw 86 with Baltimore he's in the works series getting shots throwing 98 you do the math papi Manny shilling n other sdid steroids so did everyone on those Yankees teams sad no one won I. A honest fashion
Christopher Patrick jeter did it clean
Good girl!
I thought the left was supposed to be so caring and inclusive!
Mariano is the only guy on that list that deserves HOF. Steroid guys are a no no, but when you think of HOFers you think of Mickie, Willie, Ryan etc guys who were legendary one of a kind players. I dont have those sentiments about Todd Helton
Steroid guys are a no, but greenie/amphetamine users (such as Mantle, Mays & Hank Aaron) are a yes?
You have NO argument that says Barry Bonds isnt in. He had the numbers before he started using in 1999 and if he didnt use, his numbers would be close to what they are now so stop your self righteous decree about steroid users because it clearly didn't help all of them.
Willie mays dealt meth or greanies to players....
Jacked hitters hit home runs off jacked pitchers and jacked pitchers struck out jacked hitters. Let em both in
Rivera should make the hof
But he was over rated
If he was overrated, then please name a better relief pitcher.
Mariano helped the Yankees blow a 3-0 lead.
By that logic, David Ortiz hitting only 1 home run & slugging just .372 during the Red Sox' collapse in September of 2011 is what people should remember him for
Correction! Mo blew only two games on the 2004 alcs. Those two were in Boston. So before you spit out something about Mo, please be sure to have all the facts.
leom122180: Mariano came in with 1st & 3rd, & no outs in Game 5, so I don't see how that game was his fault
Frank k: I don't care what pitcher is on the mound. If you've got 1st & 3rd with no one out, a run's gonna score more often than not
Frank k: He was as untouchable as humanly possible (especially in the playoffs). If there's no disputing that he's a Hall of Famer, why shouldn't he be unanimous? (For the record, I don't believe that he'll be unanimous.). Why should the voters continue with the bullshit of not unanimously voting for obvious Hall of Famers because "(insert names) weren't unanimous"?
I would vote Yes for Rivera, Martinez and Vizquel.
Helton put up killer stats in the first years of his career but look how his power started to vanish when baseball started testing for 'roids. He was still a .300 hitter but you would be lucky to get 20 home runs from him after '05.
I think Halladay will get in but it won't be first ballot.
I think I would vote Yes on McGriff.
Mike Mussina to me is this era's Jack Morris. They both did some nice things but I don't consider either to be elite. I wouldn't have voted in Morris and I would vote the same for Mussina.
If character truly matters then Bonds, Clemens, Schilling and Ramirez should never get in.
Andruw Jones and Scott Rolen are debateble.
Ha ha ha ha! Absolutely not. IF they are debatable then argue for them. Im letting you know now, its not a string argument. For Jones, all he has is 10 Gold Gloves. doesn't have the HR or the batting average. Rolen at least have somewhat of a BA but only know for his GG. has only 316 HR's
@@TheFruitney Andruw Jones has 434 home runs. If that isn't enough for one of the greatest defensive Center Fielders to get in the hall, then I don't know what is. Plus, 316 home runs for Rolen, as well as as 2,000 hits and the eight gold gloves, not even mentioning the 70 WAR, should easily qualify him for the hall of fame.
NO on Jeter next year.
I'd take Hoffman over Rivera any day of the week.
Why is that?
And lose every day of that week? Damn.
And some people do drugs. Some people commit suicide. Some people do crime. And you, like those people, make bad decisions.
That's why you are an idiot.
You can have Hoffman, I take Mo any day of the week.
Posts like this is the reason why I'm looking forward to 1/22, mainly to see some Hoffmantards in the Rivera HOF related videos. Even Hoffman would disagree with you.
Andruw Jones is a HOF, just look at his defensive stats with Atlanta.
He fell off too quickly.
jeffw1267 That’s irrelevant to me. I look at his career, his entire body of work. 5th all time in HR for CF, saved the most runs in the outfield *EVER.* Hit 434 homers, almost 1,300 ribbies. Won 10 straight gold gloves, 3rd most GG for an OF. Made 5 AS teams. Had a 50 homer season. Was a big part of why the Braves won the NL East 10 straight times. He just wasn’t loud or “flashy” enough to be noticed more.