When you going to retire you can sell your tools, buy a nice island and just lay in the sun on a precision granite surface plate to get a class AA tan 😃 Love your videos sir, a true master 🙏🏼👏🏼
This is a beautiful tutorial on precision boring from setting the gage to adjusting the boring tool! You have set the bar for all precision machining videos on CZcams and other platforms! Thanks for sharing.
Your are correct I was looking at a pin set as well and that is where that tolerance was shown. But still your explanation is helpful as I didn't know what it meant. Thank you for your patient attention and help.
Thanks for the time you took to include the tool assembly in this video. I just bought my first dial bore gauge (a Fowler model with a total range of 1.4-6"). It came in the case needing assembly and I was looking for some guidance for that job. Your video was helpful, especially from about 13:10 to a bit after the 17:30 mark. I appreciate your having shared your time and expertise. 👍
Hi Peter, thanks for spending the time to go through setting up. This is very helpful seeing/learning ways to increase precision. I don't know about you, but I certainly felt the Pucker Factor climbing as you crept up on that bore. Stay safe and well :)
I've always made up a gage block stack by starting with the last digit, picking the gate block, subtract it from the dimension, and repeat until the stack is full. Example: Given a dimension of 0.7438", start with the eight, giving you the 0.1008" block. The remainder is 0.643", so we add the 0.103" block, leaving a remainder of 0.54". That gives you the 0.14" block and then the 0.4" block. The stack is: 0.1008" 0.103" 0.14" 0.4" The digits 6-9 in the second place are a special case, but easy to figure it when you run into it. You fill them with the 0.11"-0.14" blocks, leaving a 5 in the second place which can be filled along with the first fractional digit.
Best machinist on u tube! I didn't say the best, but if u are u are the best u are not posting ur work!Love ur videos keep posting ur work, it's really good!
Ya i like the Testmess that back and forth needle movement gives it a more fun feel like if you dont get it on the scale the next contestant takes your place. The cool tools like that indical that test indicator bore gage, and specialty gaging like that have always been a fascination with me. I actually one of the things I'm considering manufacturing is a crow foot set . An automotive cylinder block O-ringing tool with a sharpening fixture for the actual real trepaning bit . And or a valve seat runout gage that uses a jeweled test indicator and for guide where's the wear that, runout in the guide or the seat set. not many people can help me get that kinda thing going in my life trust me so its been a battle gettin there though real happy!!! your videos are really great peter thanks
Good video. I always set dial bore gauges with a micrometer. I’ve never had gauge blocks to use. I always verify my measurements with a second tool, on first set up, usually an inside mic or telescope gauge. Your way is more accurate for sure. Thanks for the good content.
gauge blocks are not that expensive really . Grade 1 , 103piece set is 600€ for a no name brand product . One can use a complete set like this to measure grooves , slots , pockets , not just instrument setting .
Jason Peterson That is how I usually do it as well. I need to invest in a set of bocks like this as it would be handy. I rarely do jobs with tolerances in the tenths range though.
@@bcbloc02 You can also get cylindrical "spacer blocks" for about $50 for a ~36 piece set. They are great for use in the shop when working to a thou or 2. I use them a lot for setting the carriage stop on the lathe.
Great video Peter, I have also used two gage pins to check the i.d. of holes putting the pins next to each other and slipping them into a hole being sure there parallel to each other you can feel if there's taper in the hole or if it's out of round like if it didn't clean up completely, where I'm at we have pins that are even and .0005 over so I couldn't check tenths this way, but I get a feel for the straightness and the condition of the hole, really enjoy your vid's the type of jobs you get to machine are very interesting
Thanks agb218. For these parts I don't like using pins or telescoping gauges to measure bores/holes. If there are any longitudinal scratches in the bores the customer will reject the part. They fortunately allow the fine scratches/marks left by bore gauges but just that. They are very particular about this. But I can see how that would work.
paid off my 1st of 2 cnc machines! i have been getting by for 5 years with a 1" mic, 6" caliper and some random precision pins making parts haha. i appreciate these videos because of the set number and other info, ill be in the market for some of it. im also thinking about getting a manual cmm in hopes of getting more complicated parts to make and some reverse engineering to come up with new parts.
A height gauge on a good surface plate might be smarter than a really expensive CMM . From a mike and a caliper the height gauge would already be a huge step forward (you can get super duper fancy 'cnc' height gauges too ). Depending on parts a cmm might be necessary, but i doubt it . When you have a set of dial bore gauges from 3/4-6" , 0-6" mics , gage blocks , i.d. mics 0.5-4" , 2-3 dial indicators , 1-2-3 blocks angle plates , v blocks , calipers up to 12 (at least) , a protractor , some thread gages , a set of pins for under 1/2" ,16" height gauge, maybe after that it would be worth it to invest 50 grand in a cmm . Of course i'm no expert , i just listed the everyday tools that i use almost daily , i didn't even mention groove measuring but that's besides the point . If i can give an advice....only buy what you need , but if you need it BUY IT , and don't be cheap .
I agree with kiss peter. One of the digital height gauges like the Mititoyo or Tesa/Brown and Sharp with a controller. On a surface plate. Like the one you may have seen me use in the casting videos or John Saunders uses on NYCNC channel sometimes. These are way more versatile tools than a CMM for inspection. But they run around $6500.00 new.
@@EdgePrecision appreciate the tip, ive got two lists, equipment i will finance and tools i will get as i go. i will look into the digital height gauge you mentioned. cmm for me will be as much inspection as for reverse engineering parts to make better parts such as in the automotive and motor sports industry. i have a passion for suspension and chassis and a natural talent for manufacturing. i also want the faro arm with scanner and probe along with a few other things. i want to drive my machine shop production with product development... you have to aim high right..? that way if you come up short youve still gotten further than coming up short aiming right at it haha.
DmbWorks for what you are intending the farro arm type of tool would be better than a CMM. It’s not as accurate but to measure things around a car would be much better.
@@EdgePrecision yeah they do have advantages for different aspects. faro offers the probe and 3D scanner or both in one i believe. probe ive used most for parts with minimally dimensioned drawings, typically on parts with complex surfaces. having the probe option with the scanner would open me up to projects not every shop can do. and yes a good tool for R&D which is the direction i want to go. but i want/need to build a machine shop to support that dream along the way, i have a lot of fab shop tools and experience to. i guess the most important part would be adding the capability at this point. its all on the list, im not married and have no kids haha. i just have to get it in an order that is the most profitable.
Hi Peter, Thank you for your video. My metric dial gauges for the bore gauge are .002 & .001mm. Which basically equates to 80 & 40millionths of an inch. I don't have but would love your Mitutoyo end block set.. The wish list is Long.....
your the best Peter! I was always taught to work backward from my number to get a stackup so .981 you'd look for .1 first. That may not be the correct way though.
Any way that gets you the right stackup is the "correct" way. But working from the low digit is the easy way if it isn't a case that is so simple you can just see the answer at a glance.
@@lwilton I'm sure it doesn't matter 99% of the time, but I would think using the least amount of blocks would be best to avoid unnecessarily adding to the tolerance stack.
Engine rebuilders use sunnen dial bore gauge setting kits that have masters and a giant micrometer head on a stand. The carbide balls wear divots in the ends of the standards. Everybody please check the standards ends for wear. Or have your sunnen rep eyeball it or send it in for a calibration check. Slip fit is not great for cylinder sleeve installs
Hello Peter Your works are "poems", I never get tired of watching your videos and I also carefully follow your descriptions even if ... not knowing your language I understand very little! One question: at the end of the workings in a piece as complicated as the one you are working on, how can you be sure that no chip can obstruct a small hole? Is this check at your expense or will the client take care of it?
I don't know it's exact function myself. But it's some kind of part of a down hole instrument for the Petro Chem industry/Oil field. As far as the holes we have deburr guys here that do a lot parts like this. So they have special tools and bore scopes to check for burrs ans shavings in the holes. They also use a high pressure washer to blow 3000 psi water thru the holes after deburr.
Thank You for the great videos Peter! Just curious how a CMM program would be set up for a part like this? Mostly programmed off a CAD model? Happy 4th!
I really want to buy one of those Iscar/ETM boring heads, do they work well for small holes? I'm still a small shop and buy reamers for most jobs. I always appreciate your experience!
They are really rebranded DeAndrea boring heads for Iscar. Yes they make a lot of different sizes. For small holes it kind of depends what RPM you can run. The one you saw in this video I have run at more than 4000 rpm no problem. I have bored holes as small as .100 in diameter. But it could go smaller. It depends on the bar you have mounted. Every division on the inch version's dial is .0001" on the diameter. And it really works that good.
Peter, I went to look at buying a set of gauge blocks of similar quality that you have. They are listing one set as (minus) tolerance and another as (plus) tolerance. What do these tolerances mean and where are the different ones used. I would like to understand what this is all about. By the way another great video and it is appreciated. Thank you.
Are you speaking about gauge pins? I have never seen gauge blocks with minus and plus tolerances. Now as for pins yes. The minus means size to -.0002" and plus size to +.0002" So a minus .250 pin would be .2500-.2498" and a plus .250 pin would .2500-.2502" in diameter. As far as blocks I have used they would come with a certificate of accuracy. But if they are called plus and minus it would be similar to the pins I suppose just probably a closer tolerance than .0002". It would be referring to a tolerance that wont go above nominal for minus or below nominal for plus. As for the amount I guess it would depend on the class.
Here is an eBay listing for a perfectly adequate set of Grade B ("shop grade" gage blocks for less than $100. They presumably come with a certification paper that shows the deviation from the ideal size for each block. If you have even a halfway decent mic you can spend an hour or two and verify that the blocks are at least close to what they should be, and can do some worst-case stackups (like using all plus tolerance blocks) and verify that the stackup is what you would expect with the given deviations added together. One thing I would do is verify that the serial numbers given in the cert paper match those on the blocks you receive. I'd be a little suspicious if the serial numbers also matched those in the listing page shown (since they should be different in every set), but if the stackups you test add up to the correct values, it wouldn't be a problem. Keep in mind that the numbers are only "correct" at close to the ambient temperature given on the cert paper. I've been using a cheap Chinese set much like this for years, and it works just fine. www.ebay.com/itm/HFS-R-81Pcs-Grade-B-Gage-Gauge-Block-Set-Usa-Cert-Nist-Traceable-New/283183939906?epid=622538891&hash=item41ef140142:g:7PsAAOSwaY9brYxH
This seems so simple that I’m sure there’s probably a good reason no to do it... but would there be any measurable difference if you used a micrometer to set your reference rather than a gauge block stack?
Thanks Steve for your comment. There are two reasons. One it is somewhat more difficult to set on a mic. The anvils are small in diameter. Two if you are measuring very close tolerances a micrometer will set you undersize (I have a video where I demonstrate this. #FX-Lathe-2-2 Second end of lathe work.). A micrometer frame flexes when the measurement is taken. This is why they put clickers or friction thimbles on mic's. This error will increase with larger mic's. I would say if your tolerance is larger than .001" it would be OK, but less maybe not so. To be assured of your measurement it would be better to set on something with a assured calibration that doesn't vary. Like a gauge block stack.
I see you have no issue holding your gage blocks bare handed in the shop. Have you ever had issues with surface corrosion on the "cheaper" blocks you show here? My extremely cheap Chinese set of gage blocks have developed some corrosion in places where my finger prints were left behind. They still ring together and are accurate to within my measuring capability, just wondering if I should be wiping them off or adding RP to them in your opinion
No I haven’t had that problem with these blocks. Some people’s sweat is more corrosive than others. If you are having this issue I would oil them with a light oil. Or the special oil made for this purpose.
@@mpmachining7227 Chinese blocks wont have near the finish as a name brand like his, therefor rust easier. I use either LPS3, VCI paper, VCI packets or all the above with all my tooling. Not havin a climate controlled shop in constant 100% humidity sucks!
A +/- 1 thou tolerance for you is easy. I noticed that your final cut aimed to hit the middle of the tolerance. Where the tolerance is tighter, say tenths, would you aim for the end of the tolerance that allows you to remove more material if needed? In these cases it would seem risky to try and split the tolerance as you could end up at the wrong end of the range with no material to recover.
Once you have experience with a particular boring head. Than you can make adjustments with assurance of the outcome. As far as where I aim for in the tolerance. This would depend on how the hole is dimension-ed. If there is a close true position with a maximum metal condition I might shoot for the largest diameter I could get away with. This would give me more leeway on the position tolerance. If I was having trouble with the finish and had to polish I might shoot for a smaller diameter. So you see it depends.
I’m getting deja vu, didn’t you post the bore gauge set up in a previous video? Not asking for a refund. ;-) keep up the great videos. Saw an Integrex sell at auction here (UK) a couple of weeks ago, decided it was too big for my home shop.
I have shown this in other videos. Also as far as this type of machine people forget the cost of tooling. Unless the used machine comes with a lot of tooling, you could end up spending almost as much for tooling as the machine.
I have a question about the zeroing of the gauge. You said to zero it at the absolute lowest measure. Other vids say you want to put the zero where the needle changes direction from one side to the other. I dont know what to do.
I set my reference (the stack of gauge blocks) to the nominal dimension (usually the middle of the tolerance). This is where I adjust/set the dial indicators zero. I think what you may be referring to is where in the travel of that indicator I set this zero? These indicators have .050” of travel with a resolution of .0001” of each division and .010” per devolution of their large needle. With .01” for each division on the small needle for 5 divisions = .050”. So in order not to over travel the indicator and gauge. I set this zero point on the first revolution of the large needle. Or .010” into the travel of the indicator. This way when the bore is undersize I can measure it without running into the travel limit of the gauge or the indicator. This leaves me enough room/travel on the gage (.040”) to measure the undersize bore. If you set this zero say to the middle of the gauges or indicators travel you can’t measure it if the rough bore is more than .025” undersize. You will not have enough travel in the indicator or gauge. Also I always do this the same so I always know when the small needle is on its first division and the large needle is on the first revolutions zero in at my nominal dimension. It is possible to get confused and be reading your gauge undersize when the little needle is on any other division with the large needle on its zero. So to avoid that I always set this the same in any gauge I setup. I hope that answers your question. It’s kind of hard to explane in a comment like this.
@@EdgePrecision Thank you for your response, yeah I had understood that you had it 1 turn in in the tiny needle. My question was about setting the zero on the big needle(turning the window) I wish to zero it with a micrometer at exacly 3.000in to be able to measure an engine cylinder. But when I place the gauge in the micrometer to zero it the needle moves a lot depending how im holding it. Reading the indicator I can do no problem. Its really getting it zeroed accuratly that I need a little more explanation plz. Watched couple of vids but still quite unsure.
@@qaz3000 The way you establish you Zero on the indicator is to rock it back and forth in both directions/axis looking at the indicator while doing so. You will be looking for the most deflection of the needle on the indicator. What I would call the minimum null position of the indicator where the needle reverses direction. This will be a little tricky on the anvils of a outside micrometer because of their small size. It will help to lightly clamp your mic in a small vise (they also make special vises to hold mic’s) so it’s in a comfortable angle for this. It is hard to hold both points o the dial bore gauge on the mic’s anvils at the same time. So what I do is surround the one side of the dial bore gauge with the unmoving point with my fingers. Keeping it on the anvil of the mic. Then I only have to concentrate in the one side while rocking/ sweeping the bore gauge for the minimum/null reading on the indicator. This is a little difficult at first till you get the hang of it because the mic’s anvils are so small. It is much easer (and more accurate) to set a bore on a set of gauge blocks. You mentioned your size is 3.000”. Do you have any 1-2-3 blocks? If so clamp two parallels on the 3” sides so the project out a little. Say about 1”. Now set your gauge on the inside of the two parallels. You could mic the 3” length of the 1-2-3 Block and account for any deviation from the actual 3.000”. That would be easier than setting on a micrometer. Remember you have to sweep the bore gauge back and forth looking for the minimum size. It will be the most deflection on the indicator. You may have to move the indicator in its clamping mount to prevent over traveling the indicator or the gauge to achieve this.
@@EdgePrecision I have the micrometer in a vise like you suggested holding one side and rocking the gauge. Im looking for the absolute fartest that my needle would travel to turn the window and set the zero there (the biggest number that I can reach while rocking it)correct?? Thank you so much!
@@qaz3000 The most deflection of the indicator. Generally the indicators on dial bore gauges the numbers increase as the gauge reads larger ( the needle rotating clockwise) so you would be looking for the most counterclockwise rotation on the indicator. Or the minimum reading or to look at it another way the most squeezing down to a smaller size on the gauge (smallest diameter). So when you measure your bore you would put the gauge into the bore at an angle. Then rock the gauge more perpendicular to your bore till you get your minimum reading. You set the gauge on the mic the same way. But because the mic’s anvils are flat you wound first rock it one way say parallel to the handle till the minimum reading. When at that minimum rock it in the direction 90 degrees to that until you get the total minimum that is your setting minimum.
Thanks Nikolaj Wennerwald. This is the way the part is designed to be made. First I do a weld prep operation. This consists of drilling intersecting holes that intersect the gun drilled holes drilled down the length of the part. Than milling pockets where plugs with transitions between the holes can be welded in place. Than the whole thing is pressure tested for leaks. The work you see here is done after all that. This is why it seems that these parts take a long time to do. There are many operations I have not shown in the videos.
I don't really know the final cost of the parts I machine. I don't buy material or do or pay for any of the outside processes. I just do the machine work. About the most I have charged for just for my machine work on a single part is around $30,000.00 dollars.
@@EdgePrecision ur videos are very informative and top notch, look up 2 u,I used to set up and operate a machine like yrs it had twin spindles upper capto 6 milling head and regular lower live tooling on the lower, keep up the good work!
@@EdgePrecision Once worked with a guy that decided to machine a ring gauge for his dial bore gauge. After about an hour of him fiddling about , I asked him what was he doing. He responded by telling me that he is making a ring gauge. To that I asked him "You know that we have a full set of inside micrometers in the test room , right ?" You should have seen a look on his face when I told him that. But that is not even the best part , turns out we already had a ring gauge of exact diameter he needed. I laughed my ass off.
Yes a telescoping gauge is perfectly acceptable at this tolerance. I just prefer a dial bore gauge when boring a hole to size. I feel it gives me a better indication of how much to adjust the boring head. Also but not in this holes case, it can be used to check out of roundness and taper easier then a telescoping gauge.
It depends on how close a tolerance your working to. A mics frame flexes when taking its measurement. This is normal for an OD mic. I would say if you’re working to a tolerance of less than .001” it would not be the best to set it on a open mic set to the dimension on its dial.
When you going to retire you can sell your tools, buy a nice island and just lay in the sun on a precision granite surface plate to get a class AA tan 😃 Love your videos sir, a true master 🙏🏼👏🏼
Have a Great 4th Peter.
Very accurate and precision work . Great video and example of how it is done.🇺🇸🇺🇸
This is a beautiful tutorial on precision boring from setting the gage to adjusting the boring tool! You have set the bar for all precision machining videos on CZcams and other platforms! Thanks for sharing.
YOUR work is very impressive. Dave.
Thanks for the lesson Peter! Happy Independence Day! Cheers for Chicago!
You're a legend! Thanks Peter
Excellent tutorial. Thanks for the education.
Thanks for another great educational video Peter, stay safe!
Your are correct I was looking at a pin set as well and that is where that tolerance was shown. But still your explanation is helpful as I didn't know what it meant. Thank you for your patient attention and help.
Using a Cmm and Trying to get a bore gage to work at the machine, thank you for the very informative video
Thanks for the time you took to include the tool assembly in this video. I just bought my first dial bore gauge (a Fowler model with a total range of 1.4-6"). It came in the case needing assembly and I was looking for some guidance for that job. Your video was helpful, especially from about 13:10 to a bit after the 17:30 mark. I appreciate your having shared your time and expertise. 👍
muy buen video..gracias por tu tiempo..un saludo y mucha salud
Great technique peter!!!!
Hi Peter, thanks for spending the time to go through setting up. This is very helpful seeing/learning ways to increase precision.
I don't know about you, but I certainly felt the Pucker Factor climbing as you crept up on that bore. Stay safe and well :)
I've always made up a gage block stack by starting with the last digit, picking the gate block, subtract it from the dimension, and repeat until the stack is full.
Example: Given a dimension of 0.7438", start with the eight, giving you the 0.1008" block. The remainder is 0.643", so we add the 0.103" block, leaving a remainder of 0.54". That gives you the 0.14" block and then the 0.4" block. The stack is:
0.1008"
0.103"
0.14"
0.4"
The digits 6-9 in the second place are a special case, but easy to figure it when you run into it. You fill them with the 0.11"-0.14" blocks, leaving a 5 in the second place which can be filled along with the first fractional digit.
Yep, that is the correct method !
You cannot do it better. Good job !
Outstanding!..... Such a entertaining channel... 👍
Best machinist on u tube! I didn't say the best, but if u are u are the best u are not posting ur work!Love ur videos keep posting ur work, it's really good!
Ya i like the Testmess that back and forth needle movement gives it a more fun feel like if you dont get it on the scale the next contestant takes your place. The cool tools like that indical that test indicator bore gage, and specialty gaging like that have always been a fascination with me. I actually one of the things I'm considering manufacturing is a crow foot set . An automotive cylinder block O-ringing tool with a sharpening fixture for the actual real trepaning bit . And or a valve seat runout gage that uses a jeweled test indicator and for guide where's the wear that, runout in the guide or the seat set. not many people can help me get that kinda thing going in my life trust me so its been a battle gettin there though real happy!!!
your videos are really great peter thanks
My god Peter, so much work and all down to + - a thou stay safe from the UK
Nice looking anvils Peter
I love it when a boring plan comes together
perfect job!!
Thanks for the video
Nice, thanks foe the enhancement
Good video. I always set dial bore gauges with a micrometer. I’ve never had gauge blocks to use. I always verify my measurements with a second tool, on first set up, usually an inside mic or telescope gauge. Your way is more accurate for sure. Thanks for the good content.
gauge blocks are not that expensive really . Grade 1 , 103piece set is 600€ for a no name brand product . One can use a complete set like this to measure grooves , slots , pockets , not just instrument setting .
Jason Peterson That is how I usually do it as well. I need to invest in a set of bocks like this as it would be handy. I rarely do jobs with tolerances in the tenths range though.
@@bcbloc02 You can also get cylindrical "spacer blocks" for about $50 for a ~36 piece set. They are great for use in the shop when working to a thou or 2. I use them a lot for setting the carriage stop on the lathe.
Thank you
On size and 32 finish, nice job Peter. I hope you have a good July 4th holiday.
Thanks Bill. You also have a good Independence Day.
Great video Peter, I have also used two gage pins to check the i.d. of holes putting the pins next to each other and slipping them into a hole being sure there parallel to each other you can feel if there's taper in the hole or if it's out of round like if it didn't clean up completely, where I'm at we have pins that are even and .0005 over so I couldn't check tenths this way, but I get a feel for the straightness and the condition of the hole, really enjoy your vid's the type of jobs you get to machine are very interesting
Thanks agb218. For these parts I don't like using pins or telescoping gauges to measure bores/holes. If there are any longitudinal scratches in the bores the customer will reject the part. They fortunately allow the fine scratches/marks left by bore gauges but just that. They are very particular about this. But I can see how that would work.
Good stuff Peter!
ATB, Robin
Keep em comin bud
paid off my 1st of 2 cnc machines! i have been getting by for 5 years with a 1" mic, 6" caliper and some random precision pins making parts haha. i appreciate these videos because of the set number and other info, ill be in the market for some of it. im also thinking about getting a manual cmm in hopes of getting more complicated parts to make and some reverse engineering to come up with new parts.
A height gauge on a good surface plate might be smarter than a really expensive CMM . From a mike and a caliper the height gauge would already be a huge step forward (you can get super duper fancy 'cnc' height gauges too ). Depending on parts a cmm might be necessary, but i doubt it .
When you have a set of dial bore gauges from 3/4-6" , 0-6" mics , gage blocks , i.d. mics 0.5-4" , 2-3 dial indicators , 1-2-3 blocks angle plates , v blocks , calipers up to 12 (at least) , a protractor , some thread gages , a set of pins for under 1/2" ,16" height gauge, maybe after that it would be worth it to invest 50 grand in a cmm .
Of course i'm no expert , i just listed the everyday tools that i use almost daily , i didn't even mention groove measuring but that's besides the point .
If i can give an advice....only buy what you need , but if you need it BUY IT , and don't be cheap .
I agree with kiss peter. One of the digital height gauges like the Mititoyo or Tesa/Brown and Sharp with a controller. On a surface plate. Like the one you may have seen me use in the casting videos or John Saunders uses on NYCNC channel sometimes. These are way more versatile tools than a CMM for inspection. But they run around $6500.00 new.
@@EdgePrecision appreciate the tip, ive got two lists, equipment i will finance and tools i will get as i go. i will look into the digital height gauge you mentioned. cmm for me will be as much inspection as for reverse engineering parts to make better parts such as in the automotive and motor sports industry. i have a passion for suspension and chassis and a natural talent for manufacturing. i also want the faro arm with scanner and probe along with a few other things. i want to drive my machine shop production with product development... you have to aim high right..? that way if you come up short youve still gotten further than coming up short aiming right at it haha.
DmbWorks for what you are intending the farro arm type of tool would be better than a CMM. It’s not as accurate but to measure things around a car would be much better.
@@EdgePrecision yeah they do have advantages for different aspects. faro offers the probe and 3D scanner or both in one i believe. probe ive used most for parts with minimally dimensioned drawings, typically on parts with complex surfaces. having the probe option with the scanner would open me up to projects not every shop can do. and yes a good tool for R&D which is the direction i want to go. but i want/need to build a machine shop to support that dream along the way, i have a lot of fab shop tools and experience to. i guess the most important part would be adding the capability at this point. its all on the list, im not married and have no kids haha. i just have to get it in an order that is the most profitable.
PARABÉNS.............................BRASIL..............SÃO PAULO...............RIO CLARO................ABRAÇOS..............................
Hi Peter,
Thank you for your video.
My metric dial gauges for the bore gauge are .002 & .001mm.
Which basically equates to 80 & 40millionths of an inch.
I don't have but would love your Mitutoyo end block set..
The wish list is Long.....
your the best Peter! I was always taught to work backward from my number to get a stackup so .981 you'd look for .1 first. That may not be the correct way though.
Any way that gets you the right stackup is the "correct" way. But working from the low digit is the easy way if it isn't a case that is so simple you can just see the answer at a glance.
@@lwilton I'm sure it doesn't matter 99% of the time, but I would think using the least amount of blocks would be best to avoid unnecessarily adding to the tolerance stack.
Engine rebuilders use sunnen dial bore gauge setting kits that have masters and a giant micrometer head on a stand. The carbide balls wear divots in the ends of the standards. Everybody please check the standards ends for wear. Or have your sunnen rep eyeball it or send it in for a calibration check. Slip fit is not great for cylinder sleeve installs
👌
Another Great Video. For ultimate precision would you sweep the flat before indicating the bore?
Thanks Peter, some time ago, got same Bore gauge set as yours 0.7-6" but instructions was not clear as your explanation.
Good 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hello Peter
Your works are "poems", I never get tired of watching your videos and I also carefully follow your descriptions even if ... not knowing your language I understand very little!
One question: at the end of the workings in a piece as complicated as the one you are working on, how can you be sure that no chip can obstruct a small hole? Is this check at your expense or will the client take care of it?
I don't know it's exact function myself. But it's some kind of part of a down hole instrument for the Petro Chem industry/Oil field. As far as the holes we have deburr guys here that do a lot parts like this. So they have special tools and bore scopes to check for burrs ans shavings in the holes. They also use a high pressure washer to blow 3000 psi water thru the holes after deburr.
@@EdgePrecision Thanks so much for your reply.
Have a nice day.
Ciao Stefano (Italy)
Is that inconel ? What an incredible part. I don’t even see a burr
Thank You for the great videos Peter! Just curious how a CMM program would be set up for a part like this? Mostly programmed off a CAD model? Happy 4th!
Yes it could be done from the solid model.
I really want to buy one of those Iscar/ETM boring heads, do they work well for small holes? I'm still a small shop and buy reamers for most jobs. I always appreciate your experience!
They are really rebranded DeAndrea boring heads for Iscar. Yes they make a lot of different sizes. For small holes it kind of depends what RPM you can run. The one you saw in this video I have run at more than 4000 rpm no problem. I have bored holes as small as .100 in diameter. But it could go smaller. It depends on the bar you have mounted. Every division on the inch version's dial is .0001" on the diameter. And it really works that good.
I would be tempted to turn up a double ended plug gauge 0.979" go,0.981" no go.
Is this a skunkworks project, or can we have a hint what this monstrously detailed part is going to be used for?
They are down hole instrumentation tools for the oilfield.
Peter, I went to look at buying a set of gauge blocks of similar quality that you have. They are listing one set as (minus) tolerance and another as (plus) tolerance. What do these tolerances mean and where are the different ones used. I would like to understand what this is all about. By the way another great video and it is appreciated. Thank you.
Are you speaking about gauge pins? I have never seen gauge blocks with minus and plus tolerances. Now as for pins yes. The minus means size to -.0002" and plus size to +.0002" So a minus .250 pin would be .2500-.2498" and a plus .250 pin would .2500-.2502" in diameter. As far as blocks I have used they would come with a certificate of accuracy. But if they are called plus and minus it would be similar to the pins I suppose just probably a closer tolerance than .0002". It would be referring to a tolerance that wont go above nominal for minus or below nominal for plus. As for the amount I guess it would depend on the class.
Here is an eBay listing for a perfectly adequate set of Grade B ("shop grade" gage blocks for less than $100. They presumably come with a certification paper that shows the deviation from the ideal size for each block. If you have even a halfway decent mic you can spend an hour or two and verify that the blocks are at least close to what they should be, and can do some worst-case stackups (like using all plus tolerance blocks) and verify that the stackup is what you would expect with the given deviations added together.
One thing I would do is verify that the serial numbers given in the cert paper match those on the blocks you receive. I'd be a little suspicious if the serial numbers also matched those in the listing page shown (since they should be different in every set), but if the stackups you test add up to the correct values, it wouldn't be a problem. Keep in mind that the numbers are only "correct" at close to the ambient temperature given on the cert paper.
I've been using a cheap Chinese set much like this for years, and it works just fine.
www.ebay.com/itm/HFS-R-81Pcs-Grade-B-Gage-Gauge-Block-Set-Usa-Cert-Nist-Traceable-New/283183939906?epid=622538891&hash=item41ef140142:g:7PsAAOSwaY9brYxH
This seems so simple that I’m sure there’s probably a good reason no to do it... but would there be any measurable difference if you used a micrometer to set your reference rather than a gauge block stack?
Thanks Steve for your comment. There are two reasons. One it is somewhat more difficult to set on a mic. The anvils are small in diameter. Two if you are measuring very close tolerances a micrometer will set you undersize (I have a video where I demonstrate this. #FX-Lathe-2-2 Second end of lathe work.). A micrometer frame flexes when the measurement is taken. This is why they put clickers or friction thimbles on mic's. This error will increase with larger mic's. I would say if your tolerance is larger than .001" it would be OK, but less maybe not so. To be assured of your measurement it would be better to set on something with a assured calibration that doesn't vary. Like a gauge block stack.
I see you have no issue holding your gage blocks bare handed in the shop. Have you ever had issues with surface corrosion on the "cheaper" blocks you show here? My extremely cheap Chinese set of gage blocks have developed some corrosion in places where my finger prints were left behind. They still ring together and are accurate to within my measuring capability, just wondering if I should be wiping them off or adding RP to them in your opinion
No I haven’t had that problem with these blocks. Some people’s sweat is more corrosive than others. If you are having this issue I would oil them with a light oil. Or the special oil made for this purpose.
@@EdgePrecision thank you so much for the reply and all of your videos. The whole community really owes you for sharing everything you do
@@mpmachining7227 Chinese blocks wont have near the finish as a name brand like his, therefor rust easier. I use either LPS3, VCI paper, VCI packets or all the above with all my tooling. Not havin a climate controlled shop in constant 100% humidity sucks!
It helps to oil your fingers before handling them too.
A +/- 1 thou tolerance for you is easy. I noticed that your final cut aimed to hit the middle of the tolerance. Where the tolerance is tighter, say tenths, would you aim for the end of the tolerance that allows you to remove more material if needed? In these cases it would seem risky to try and split the tolerance as you could end up at the wrong end of the range with no material to recover.
Once you have experience with a particular boring head. Than you can make adjustments with assurance of the outcome. As far as where I aim for in the tolerance. This would depend on how the hole is dimension-ed. If there is a close true position with a maximum metal condition I might shoot for the largest diameter I could get away with. This would give me more leeway on the position tolerance. If I was having trouble with the finish and had to polish I might shoot for a smaller diameter. So you see it depends.
Edge Precision thank you,. Always interesting and informative. It’s always interesting seeing how you deal with customer requirements.
I’m getting deja vu, didn’t you post the bore gauge set up in a previous video? Not asking for a refund. ;-) keep up the great videos. Saw an Integrex sell at auction here (UK) a couple of weeks ago, decided it was too big for my home shop.
I have shown this in other videos. Also as far as this type of machine people forget the cost of tooling. Unless the used machine comes with a lot of tooling, you could end up spending almost as much for tooling as the machine.
Is this a reupload Peter? Or have you just been over these bore gages before? Seems very familiar video.
No it’s a new video. I have show similar content in other videos.
Those things can be a bit confusing to a someone who doesn't use one often.
I have a question about the zeroing of the gauge. You said to zero it at the absolute lowest measure. Other vids say you want to put the zero where the needle changes direction from one side to the other. I dont know what to do.
I set my reference (the stack of gauge blocks) to the nominal dimension (usually the middle of the tolerance). This is where I adjust/set the dial indicators zero. I think what you may be referring to is where in the travel of that indicator I set this zero? These indicators have .050” of travel with a resolution of .0001” of each division and .010” per devolution of their large needle. With .01” for each division on the small needle for 5 divisions = .050”. So in order not to over travel the indicator and gauge. I set this zero point on the first revolution of the large needle. Or .010” into the travel of the indicator. This way when the bore is undersize I can measure it without running into the travel limit of the gauge or the indicator. This leaves me enough room/travel on the gage (.040”) to measure the undersize bore. If you set this zero say to the middle of the gauges or indicators travel you can’t measure it if the rough bore is more than .025” undersize. You will not have enough travel in the indicator or gauge. Also I always do this the same so I always know when the small needle is on its first division and the large needle is on the first revolutions zero in at my nominal dimension. It is possible to get confused and be reading your gauge undersize when the little needle is on any other division with the large needle on its zero. So to avoid that I always set this the same in any gauge I setup. I hope that answers your question. It’s kind of hard to explane in a comment like this.
@@EdgePrecision Thank you for your response, yeah I had understood that you had it 1 turn in in the tiny needle. My question was about setting the zero on the big needle(turning the window) I wish to zero it with a micrometer at exacly 3.000in to be able to measure an engine cylinder. But when I place the gauge in the micrometer to zero it the needle moves a lot depending how im holding it. Reading the indicator I can do no problem. Its really getting it zeroed accuratly that I need a little more explanation plz. Watched couple of vids but still quite unsure.
@@qaz3000 The way you establish you Zero on the indicator is to rock it back and forth in both directions/axis looking at the indicator while doing so. You will be looking for the most deflection of the needle on the indicator. What I would call the minimum null position of the indicator where the needle reverses direction. This will be a little tricky on the anvils of a outside micrometer because of their small size. It will help to lightly clamp your mic in a small vise (they also make special vises to hold mic’s) so it’s in a comfortable angle for this. It is hard to hold both points o the dial bore gauge on the mic’s anvils at the same time. So what I do is surround the one side of the dial bore gauge with the unmoving point with my fingers. Keeping it on the anvil of the mic. Then I only have to concentrate in the one side while rocking/ sweeping the bore gauge for the minimum/null reading on the indicator. This is a little difficult at first till you get the hang of it because the mic’s anvils are so small. It is much easer (and more accurate) to set a bore on a set of gauge blocks. You mentioned your size is 3.000”. Do you have any 1-2-3 blocks? If so clamp two parallels on the 3” sides so the project out a little. Say about 1”. Now set your gauge on the inside of the two parallels. You could mic the 3” length of the 1-2-3 Block and account for any deviation from the actual 3.000”. That would be easier than setting on a micrometer. Remember you have to sweep the bore gauge back and forth looking for the minimum size. It will be the most deflection on the indicator. You may have to move the indicator in its clamping mount to prevent over traveling the indicator or the gauge to achieve this.
@@EdgePrecision I have the micrometer in a vise like you suggested holding one side and rocking the gauge.
Im looking for the absolute fartest that my needle would travel to turn the window and set the zero there (the biggest number that I can reach while rocking it)correct??
Thank you so much!
@@qaz3000 The most deflection of the indicator. Generally the indicators on dial bore gauges the numbers increase as the gauge reads larger ( the needle rotating clockwise) so you would be looking for the most counterclockwise rotation on the indicator. Or the minimum reading or to look at it another way the most squeezing down to a smaller size on the gauge (smallest diameter). So when you measure your bore you would put the gauge into the bore at an angle. Then rock the gauge more perpendicular to your bore till you get your minimum reading. You set the gauge on the mic the same way. But because the mic’s anvils are flat you wound first rock it one way say parallel to the handle till the minimum reading. When at that minimum rock it in the direction 90 degrees to that until you get the total minimum that is your setting minimum.
Anyone else jump when he dropped that washer?
Nice video, as allways. But is it a welding at 23:23? what's the story behind that? :)
Thanks Nikolaj Wennerwald. This is the way the part is designed to be made. First I do a weld prep operation. This consists of drilling intersecting holes that intersect the gun drilled holes drilled down the length of the part. Than milling pockets where plugs with transitions between the holes can be welded in place. Than the whole thing is pressure tested for leaks. The work you see here is done after all that. This is why it seems that these parts take a long time to do. There are many operations I have not shown in the videos.
What's the most expensive part u ever made?
I don't really know the final cost of the parts I machine. I don't buy material or do or pay for any of the outside processes. I just do the machine work. About the most I have charged for just for my machine work on a single part is around $30,000.00 dollars.
@@EdgePrecision ur videos are very informative and top notch, look up 2 u,I used to set up and operate a machine like yrs it had twin spindles upper capto 6 milling head and regular lower live tooling on the lower, keep up the good work!
that boring head looks awfuly familiar. is it a d'andrea ?
Yes re-branded for Iscar ITS Bore.
@@EdgePrecision cool. I have one at work. very nice to work with!
What are you making here?
I’m not really sure what these parts did. Some kind of oilfield down hole instrument.
@@EdgePrecision Looks like some crazy scientific mechanical stuff you're making.
Keeping things, actually simple Thus Peter the Great. And a gratuitous placement of a calculator call Texas Instruments.
Hiya
Why not use 3 point mike ?
Don’t have one this size.
@@EdgePrecision Once worked with a guy that decided to machine a ring gauge for his dial bore gauge. After about an hour of him fiddling about , I asked him what was he doing. He responded by telling me that he is making a ring gauge. To that I asked him "You know that we have a full set of inside micrometers in the test room , right ?"
You should have seen a look on his face when I told him that. But that is not even the best part , turns out we already had a ring gauge of exact diameter he needed.
I laughed my ass off.
For a 0.001 tolerance I use telescopic gauges.
Yes a telescoping gauge is perfectly acceptable at this tolerance. I just prefer a dial bore gauge when boring a hole to size. I feel it gives me a better indication of how much to adjust the boring head. Also but not in this holes case, it can be used to check out of roundness and taper easier then a telescoping gauge.
First of all who's zooming in and out with the camera
I recorded the video in 2K so I could zoom in when I edited in the video editing software.
Why can’t you zero gauge from a calibrated mic?
It depends on how close a tolerance your working to. A mics frame flexes when taking its measurement. This is normal for an OD mic. I would say if you’re working to a tolerance of less than .001” it would not be the best to set it on a open mic set to the dimension on its dial.
@@EdgePrecisionWow! I had no idea an outside micrometer would flex!!!!