Shop Talk 10: Telescope Gages & How They're Used
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- čas přidán 19. 09. 2016
- In this episode of shop talk I go over telescope gages and how I use them. I share my techniques on how I pull them from a bore, hold them for measuring, and them using a mic over them.
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Thanks a ton Adam. I've never had good luck with my grandfather's set of telescope guages but I just went out to my shop and got 6 consistent reading with them using your method. Thanks a bunch.
+David Rahn (Dmrahn) That's awesome! Keep practicing what I mentioned, getting the screw just tight enough to hold the arms, and feeling the tips touch the mic.
Your humble nature makes you a much better teacher. Thanks for showing the techniques you use.
I've worked in computing 30 years and over that time people comment on how smart you must be to work with computers. Engineering like this to me is clever guys. Building a lot of the stuff over time 'without' computers and just plain talent is smart. Much respect to you guys who can do this kind of work. My grandfather was a machinist and I really regret not learning from him before he passed.
Have been using mics, bore gauges and other precision measurement tools and have come to understand that this is as much an art as a science
Hi Adam. You covered a bunch of very small details that will all make a difference in the end. This instrument is certainly an acquired feel. They can be very accurate. Personally, I like the single sided models. One thing I'd like to contribute is to always keep the rigid barrel down towards the ways of the machine. This keeps the weight of the instrument from influencing the measurement it delivers. Good video. Thumbs up.
Thanks Joe. I have always set the moving leg downward. It's what I'm used to and works well for me.
Like they say, 10 machinists will do the same job 10 different ways. So long as the final product meets the print. Thanks for the reply.
Straight out of machining school and into a job shop/electric motor repair shop, this really helps me. I struggled with telescoping gauges for a bit, but this video really cleared it up. I'm getting consistent readings now. Thanks!
Great to hear! 👍🏻
One of the first videos of you using this tool I noticed how deliberate that motion was, repeatable & accurate
Thanks Adam, there's no substitute for the kind of experience and communication skills that you have. I can see your confidence affecting a whole bunch of us amateurs that watch every week.
Great video as always. Your method was taught to me in High School and has proven accurate for over 37 years. Great explanation and accurate to boot. Keep up the good work.
I just like to say thank you for the videos you put out and some of the other guys on CZcams as well. I'm self taught so that obviously means I didn't have anybody show me how to use some of these tools and the best thing about these modern times as I can get info from guys like you!
Awesome explanation. It is all about repetitive tension and muscle memory. Thanks for sharing.
yep, adam's great at verbalizing this stuff. i see it the same way as he does about the friction and like you said, muscle memory. same as making automotive valve adjustments with feeler gauges in my opinion, you have your personal "feel" for how much friction is right and you're going to be consistent with practice.
Wish I had a nickel for every valve I have adjusted. Sure enough a feel for that. Needed three hands sometimes.
These are my favorite episodes. I've imitated your technique for a while, nice to hear it laid out in words.
Hi Adam,
That was probably the best demonstration and explanation of telescope gauges that I have ever heard. Great job. I also rely on mine on a daily basis. What I found great for practising is high quality bearings, so you always have a known reference to compare your measurements to.
Thanks again for all your excellent videos.
i have a set of dual piston telescoping gauges that were passed down to me when my Grandpa passed away. I just sat down with them, and one of my micrometers and got a consistent reading 4x in a row on a part that i bored. I love your videos man, they are helping me so much! thanks to you, i have identified all of the tools in the toolbox that my Grandpa collected over the years. when I first started turning on the lathe, i couldnt identify probably about 70% of the tools in the box haha!
Thank you Adam!
Thanks Adam. I remember back to some of your first videos showing you using the telescoping gauges. I adopted your technique and it's been very helpful in getting consistent readings.
Thanks for showing that. I'll be sure to keep this lesson in mind when taking measurements in the future. I didn't have anyone to show me how to use a telescopic gauge. What I did was take multiple measurements to see if the measurement was repeatable. I relied on the consistency to give an indication of the accuracy.
Same way I do it. Good practice for a beginner is to get a ring gauge or something else with a known accurate I.d, and keep doing it until you can repeat your measurement within a few ten thousandths
And a calibrated mic of course
Good advice. I worked at a machine shop in HS, and spent first three or four months in the tool room checking measurements on literally everything in there. I must've mic'ed a thousand end mills. Also countless gauges, blocks, pins, etc. Mastered mic's, but I gotta say I fell in love with calipers. I used them like 90% of the time after that. Way faster and I was dead accurate with 'em.
I started using your technique after watching your video a few months back and I like it.Been doing it your way ever since.
Adam Booth: "I show what I know".
What a great way to get across, where you are coming from Adam. Enjoying the series. Cheers.
Thank you Adam, very informative and easy to follow. I'm slowly working my way through all your videos and am learning a lot from them - I feel like I'm doing an apprenticeship with you!
Another excellent shop talk Adam. We mostly use bore gages in work for measuring but I always run a telescoping gage in there just to see the difference. I'm usually within a tenth or so every time so there's no doubt with the right feel they are accurate. Thanks again for all the great content!
I noted how you did the telescoping gage when I first started watching you. I followed your example, but your explanation today cleared up some things I didn't see. Thank you.
Thanks Adam :I've been doing that the same exact way for the last 50 years
Thanks Adam for the informative video. I struggled on using the telescoping gauge, but your video opened a whole new perspective. Thanks Jason R.
as a former tool maker I agree with your technique 100%great videos always look forward to watch them
Thanks a bunch Adam, watch your channel all the time. Really good information on telescope gauges. Look forward to see more of your shop talk on other instruments. Keep up the good work, Brent.
Super video! I noticed that your technique braces your hand and keeps is steady while feeling the work with the gage; many artists hold a long stick across the canvas to brace the brush-hand on, so they can do fine detailed work.
You truly handle a gage like an artist.
Thanks for posting this; your technique makes the most sense to me, and yields accurate and consistent measurements for me. I was having a hard time checking the bore of an 1986 Chrysler 2.2L turbo which I'm rebuilding.
Great job Adam.. I'm just a guy that loves fixing and building things. I've just learned so much with your explanations of how to use different tools. This was a big help and set me straight or some questions I had about using the telescoping gauges. I've never known if I was supposed to "crank down" on them before swiping the measurement.
Thanks for another great video.
thank you Adam for shop talk 10, yayy !! doesn't matter if its a mike, snap gauge or indicator, its all in the feel. one of my mentors many, many years ago explained that 'feel'. and he made sure I understood the mike "isn't a C-clamp with numbers" !
I used your telescope gage and micrometer technique when boring twelve 1" holes today and they where right where I needed them to be. Thank you for clearing up the mystery (for me anyway) of successfully measuring inside diameters.
Everybody has their own method for using telescoping gages. I have my own and I use it all the time. I always get good results. Thanks for showing the world these tricks that you have learned one way or another.
Always well done or well said. Nice job Adam. You really have to wonder about someone who would just walk up like that and say you are doing something wrong, what a conversation starter. I'm sure they would be a real joy to work with on a daily basis.
Thanks Adam. I got the email about this video about twenty minutes after coming across and watching, by accident, Pierre's video on using telescoping gages. My dad went through a metrology course in the fifties when he worked for Ford Aircraft Division. He would come home and talk about practicing developing a "feel" with the gaging they were learning to use. He gave me an old mic and some things to "practice" on. At the time I did not really understand, but many years later when I actually had to measure parts his lessons all made sense. One common point between yours and Pierre's two videos was, "This is the way I do this. You need to practice and find your way to make accurate measurements."
I watched this video when it came out. Now i have my first set of Mitutoyo 8-150mm telescopig gages. I was training measuring with them in garage and now watched this video again as a reminder :)
Thanks for useful info Adam.... I'm enjoying these "Shop Talk" episodes!
Great video Adam! Good to drive home the idea that if you use the ratchet or friction thimble, you WILL push the plunger into the gauge several thousandths. Those that say they have no problem with that, overtighten the telescope gauge and when you do that, it draws the moving leg inwards a few thou as well. So you end up with a measurement thats sometimes 5 thou smaller than the part really is.
+Brian Streufert Your exactly right. It's the right way to do that, but I'm not one to argue with people. I show what I know, and that's it.
I have seen people just put it in the bore, snap it open and pull it out without even putting it at an angle and rocking it. Literally just snap it and then tighten it and pull it out. Then crank down on it with a mic haha.
Thanks Adam been in the trade for a few years and still learn something everyday and your channel has help a bunch only problem I have is there just isn't enough of it. keep em comen and I'll keep watchin
Thanks for the info. Stuff like this is real helpful to a learning apprentice machinist. I appreciate your channel, and I have learned a lot much of which has been taken positively by the guys who are teaching me. I recently had to show some co-workers how to use telescoping gauges to measure some parts we had made at an outside shop. While the technique I use is a little different, it still shows the basically the same thing. One thing I think about telescoping gauges is that they need to be rotated through the 90 degree mark, or the minimum diameter. I have seen you use them many times in videos and you obviously get accurate readings. However, you never stated that the gauge needs to be rocked through the minimum to measure the bore. Again, thanks for making these videos I look forward to them every weekend and you have taught me a lot in how manual machining is done by professionals.
Excellent video Adam. It becomes another 'art' of the trade.
Absolutely correct on the vertical hold for the snap gauge. I like to keep a light drag for measurement, but then snug it slightly to prevent movement when checking in the mic. Excellent technique.
Thanks for taking the time to go into such detail. Really helpful and informative.
Explained very well, and helpful. Maybe you should start a Tips and Tricks segment.
That's the first time I had seen a Telescopic Gauge. Thanks
Excellent Shop Talk. I'm going to share this in my Race car forums. I can guarantee you, controversy will explode.
It just does. Everybody is an expert when it comes to measuring engine bores, valve guide clearances, bearings....
But here, Adam hits the key points. Every tool has its place and usage, whether it's a job / custom shop or production.
I've used every type of measuring tool there is. The key is how the technician, craftsman, machinist, whatever, users the tools.
And there are limitations such as the type of material, temperature, and of course, quality.
I can't tell you how many times as Adam explains, "you're doing it wrong" is often an indication of the opposite is actually occurring.
Everything is "relative", is what my grandfather, a WW II Lancaster AME, taught me. Practice, reference, and experience is how measuring is accomplished. For almost a year, he would double check my work. Constantly verified our tools, material composition, and clearance tolerances allowed. For years, I wondered how he stayed disciplined in carrying out these steps. The epiphany finally struck home when he took me to a RAF Lancaster Squadron reunion. The pilots were grateful that their ship always brought them home.
It's one thing to build a race car engine and not really "worry about it". But when four Rolls Royce V-12's are the only thing keeping you in the air going into battle, the demands for perfection sink in. +1
Adam's technique is the exact same way I was taught. I agree, everyone is going to have different methods and they aren't necessarily wrong.
Confidence along with trial and error leads to experience.
Very helpful Adam, thanks for sharing.
Great explanation, Adam. Thanks for sharing your technique.
Thanks for the class. I can't wait for more classes. You are a good teacher.
Since i've discovered this tool and your technique, i've machined many parts using this.
Just for fun, i compare with measuring by inside mic, and i was 0.01mm off. Not so bad for a noob ;)
I save a lot of time and i feel more confident with this fast check.
You are a great teacher Adam, Many thanks for sharing your knowledge !
Great video as always!
Just got into hydraulic repairs and your videos are helping out a lot.
Cheers Abom!
your shop talks are really getting awesome
Nice explanation Adam! Thanks again for sharing some of your knowledge and know how.
Gary
Great instruction video. Your shop series is really informative. Keep it up.
I do it the same way you do, well because I watched you do it that way, I agree it feels better and I do believe its more accurate especially for someone like me who is not a machinist, its a hobby and I love it and am trying to do it as good as I can, watching you has helped a ton.
Very nice, thank you for this new series of "how I do it" series, its great
dear adam,
usually such techniques demonstration -- in the very depth -- is reserved for the first-born favorite son!
i very much appreciate your showing them to us.
thanks for the video,
-toly
Thank Toly...lucky for me, I was the first born son.
Ive been machining 37 years using these and the guys look at me like I'm crazy when I use these, you develope a feel as you said and get comfy using them. It just takes practice and confirmation of your checks.
Great video as always Adam!! Always helpful to us beginners.
Really good info Adam. As a novice trying to fit into your guy's club, I appreciate the knowledge you journeymen machinists share with us. I doubt I will ever call myself a machinist, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to give every project my best efforts. This kind of information does help a great deal. Thank You Buddy!! Hope your doing okay. Razor!
Thanks Adam, this was very instructive and something each of us hobbyists must develop your own, FEEL but your video is a very good place to start from. You have given me a whole new mind set in my workshop since I started watching your videos earlier this year, I really look forward to seeing a new one. I live in the UK , please keep up the good work the videos are excellent.
kind regards
Bill
Great video again, and a great approach on the field of learning things in a workshop
Nicely done Adam. I will have to try it because I am not sure I am doing it right. Still learning by watching you and other masters. A lot of people don't like to share to newbies, I enjoyed helping new guys when I was still working too. God bless you and many thanks. Dave A
Awesome video Adam feel is everything in the shop.
Thank you for putting the time in for us novices / diy to understand . cheers Trev
The mans a true gentleman, I need some videos to watch Adam. I enjoy them!
Adam, I love the videos, thanks for making these! I'm hoping you could talk a little about morse tapers and the different adapters and ways to hold tools.
Adam..thanks for going over this subject...great help!
Hey Adam, you couldn't have done a better job in describing the "feel" of using a mic and telescope gauge. All thumbs up!!! For all others out there starting off, its all bout the "feel". And remember "Measure twice, cut once"!!!
Great video and explanation! Pierre also just did a video on the same subject so it gives people two different techniques on their use. Again good info. Thanks Adam!
Thanks, Adam. Exactly what I've been waiting for!
I tend to also give the handle a real gentle twist before taking it out the bore to make sure i haven't accidentally pinched on the edge of the gauge but thats my personal preference. Keep up the good videos man. Love seeing other people, especially from the other side of ponds methods and how they were taught when they learnt.
When I was an apprentice bricklayer, my boss told me I would get told a dozen or more ways to do something. Rather than argue he told me to try their method, chew on it and swallow if it worked for me, otherwise, spit it out...but not while that journeyman was standing near by! Thanks for the great video, I'm learning a lot from you guys (haven't spit anything out yet), Greg.
You sure are a good teacher Adam. That is so helpful. Thanks!
Thank you Adam for the informative video. Can't wait for the next one.
blew out of the park again Adam another great video
Thanks Jacob!
Thanks Adam, your videos are superb. For anyone trying to develop the ‘feel’ with a micrometer, a good thing to practice Adam’s technique on is a ball or roller bearing bore - one that’s been used but not scored-up should be fine - these are made to very tight tolerances and the size and tolerance will be quoted in the manufacturer’s catalogue. When your measurements agree with the bearing manufacturer’s you’ll have mastered the feel. All the best..!
Seen you do it before - it's nice to have a refresher!
Good tips! That is very close to how I do it and feel is a big factor.
Great info Adam.Always look forward to videos .
Great job as usual! Thanks for the demonstration of "your method". It makes good sense to do it like that and to go by the feel of it. That is how I do valve adjustment with "feeler" gauges. I have had a lot of trouble using snap gauges and I expect that part of it has been from the gauge collapsing while using the ratchet instead of just "feeling it". The other problem is the gauge doesnt always snug and hold the measurement consistently. The single ended type may have about half as much trouble with that!
thnx Adam. I've learned a lot watchin you n Tom n Kieth.
Nice job Adam! I've been using telescopic bore gages for more than 30 years with no problems. "The proof is in the pudding" as they say. For example when I've had to make mating parts that required a light interference fit. The combination of the snap gage and micrometer is proven accurate by the interference fit I made. If you take care of your gages, they'll take care of you!
Thanks Adam for the clear explanation on how to use them
What a coincidence!!!!
I had an issue with a couple of my operators measuring undersize than the actual size using these gauges. This is exactly what i showed them. They were not rocking the gauge, if you know what i mean. I have got to get some bore gauges now, to get the jobs done on size!. Great video as usual, Adam.
Thanks for the video. Just had to do some inside measurements for the first time and was wondering what a good technique was to do so. I need to go recheck things now. Thanks again!
Everyone has their own way of using precision measuring tools. My old QC guy and I had very different ways of gauging parts and always came out .001 different on our measurements regardless of which tool we used, or the method we used for each tool.
I have since learned, that even though tools like calipers and telescoping gauges are intended for rough dimensions, if used properly, they give the exact same reading as a micrometer.
It was ingrained in me to think my old boss would never get an accurate reading on a micrometer because he never used the ratchet stop. Turns out he could, and with much more reliability than with it. I ended up picking up a feel for not using the ratchet stop because of it; even though "improper" it works astonishingly well once you get the feel for it.
I can't say I've ever seen a telescoping gauge used the way you use it, but hey, if it works it works; and it was interesting to see a different method than what i'm used to.
Good video, thanks. I've seen guys use the ratchet and get in trouble, all ratchets take a different amount of force before they release(depending on wear, maintenance, manufacturer ect) you can't depenend on consistency. I'm glad you made the point of only using feel. I'd love to see a shop talk on the differences/used of two, three and four flute end mills on different metals, I'm new to milling and get conflicting information. Thanks, be safe
your way of holding and using the telescope gauges makes sense it gives it support and lots of accuracy. the way you handle your mic is a technique I have seen befote
I’ve wondered about this subject and I’ll take the experienced advice so thanks Adam.
Hi Adam. I'm not a practicing machinist (I hail from more of a Quality Assurance and Metrology background - no practical skills, so can only deal with the theory.... right? 😜😜) … but always fascinated by and look forward keenly to ALL your vids… WHATEVER the individual subject or particular task you may be working on.… from BBQs to the BarZ bash!
Always easy and extremely informative to watch, Adam, and your overall technique and presentation style never fails to captivate and impress me with just how exceedingly well you bring insight, plain, easy-to-follow explanations of what you are trying to do, or why you might be using this particular approach or technique or that on a particular task - including all the unseen 'back room' editing, voiceover etc. stuff that many people might not appreciate just how much time and effort goes into. Good job (as always) Adam. Just keep doing EXACTLY what you do so well. Muchos appreciation. Mark (in UK) 👍👍
Thank you for the information Adam. You have a nice way of explaining how you do something but saying less than you know. I have always had trouble centering a bore gage
to get a true diameter with repeatable measurements. My work demands three and sometimes four place repeatable results with little tolerance for scrap, so the information
you share is very welcome. I like the way you protect your instruments.
Great to see that your technique and to see that it is similar to mine despite me not being a machinist. I use these to verify piston to cylinder wall clearance when I put together dirt bike engines. Took me about 50 measures the first time I used them before I was getting consistent readings Way cheaper than option than buying a bore gauge, you just need to be patient enough to learn how to use them!
Thanks Adam for such an in-depth explanation. The method I developed was to tighten down after pulling the gauge out so that the mic would not compress the gauge, then use the ratchet. That's just what I came up with, lacking anyone to show me differently. I'm not all that confident in my accuracy, and I should probably do as some suggest here and find some samples with a known ID.
Rick thats a great suggestion. Get something you know what the ID and is practice, maybe with some of the tips I give on how I use them
Thank you for this training.....excellent demonstration.
Loved the vid bud. I think you did a great job putting it all into words & you also did a great job stating that there are in fact many different ways of doing the same thing. I think that the only "idea" that you missed was 'CONSISTENCY'. No matter what type of measurements a guy is taking it all comes down to consistency. Find your own technique, but you have to maintain a consistent feel on every measurement for it to be effective. If a person doesn't keep a consistent feel on every measurement then their results will be all over the place. Other than that one point you definitely nailed the whole process. I look forward to more of the Shop Talk vids. I hate to say it out loud, but I'm actually liking them a little more than the SNS anymore simply because they are directed specifically to shop processes & don't get sidetracked with other stuff......still love SNS but the Shop Talk format is a great idea for your channel & allows specific, directed topics to be covered without having to wade through all of the other subjects covered in SNS. Keep up the good work bud.......really appreciate all you do !!
Thanks for sharing Adam, very well explained buddy
Good demo and great story. No need to worry you are doing it right.
Thanks Randy! 👍🏻
Love these Shop Talk videos Adam. Great work, keep it up. :)
I love the shop talk , tips. Good stuff.
I think where a lot of people go wrong is trying to center the unlocked gage perfectly perpendicular to the bore, lock it and then try and tilt and extract it. This had never worked reliably for me when i started out so I soon figured out a method similar to Adam. The key is to purposely snug it up past perpendicular so when you do the tilt to extract you travel _through_ the point of perfect perpendicularity. The dragging of the leg(s) in the bore automatically positions the gage tips exactly at the full diameter (center) of the bore because they naturally want to move to that spot as its the path of least resistance.
Your right, and that's something I kind of missed when explaining. I always try to get as much info as I can out to the viewer, but I always miss something.....😣
well said