The Problem with Moxie
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Netflix's Moxie was...interesting.
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I thought the movie was going to have Mitchell draw a star on rather than Seth. It would have brought to light how men can overshadow and take over a movement. It would have emphasized how hollow the act was and it would have pushed the girls to take it up a notch. Having it be the nice guy move for Seth felt a bit cringe. Another issue with Moxie is that they didn't have the courage to make the Black girl the lead. Although, if they had, the movie would have had to acknowledge feminism's problematic habit of centering whiteness and dismissing Blackness, and Netflix wasn't ready for that move.
Hmmm… Mitchell joining the movement would’ve been interesting. Even more interesting to see how that would’ve played into the reveal of the heinous crime he committed towards his ex girlfriend.
Depends on what men and what beliefs. Cus I don't see men overshadowing the feminist movement ever. I see them try to have a conversation about how the issues the media empathises for women affect them too and the media isn't doing the same for them. The system isn't either cus we have systems relying on programs like The Duluth Model thats developed to reduce domestic violence against women but erases the victimhood of men and perpetration of women. We have researchers giving us stats on womens SA cases but the same researchers such as Dr Mary Kos stating that men cannot get r@ped.
i heard something about how the reason they didn’t make a black person the protagonist is because Amy Poehler, the writer, isn’t black and didn’t wanna tell a story that she wouldn’t know about yk?
The author is white and she didn't want to tell a story that she couldn't completely understand and so other black authors can have that light
@@vino3641 that makes sense honestly
White feminism and the strong black woman trope is what is wrong with this movie and Claudia should have been the main character
Ooo Claudia as the main character would’ve been interesting 🤔
@@TheBlushBunny Right? She has a unique perspective as an Asian woman and instead we got the same old thing.
As I get why the protagonist is white (the author is white, so writing from a BIPOC point of view is sort of controversial), I do believe it would have been a lot more interesting to have Claudia as a protagonist. I don't agree with the people who believes Lucy should be, because she already is powerful and strong-willed. Lucy doesn't need to be developed.
idk Amy Poehler made it, like no hate to Amy Poehler, but I don't think she would have done the best job of writing a POC as a protagonist. We would probably have MORE complaints if she chose to go on that direction.
YES. this story would've had so much potential if they put Claudia as the MC and explored the themes of Asian girlhood, freedom and mother/daughter relationships
tbh i couldn't fall for seth's good boy feminist ally act because he never stood up to mitchell, not even once. what is the point in a man calling himself an ally if he's not going to use his voice to raise awareness? it has been proven 10000 times that whenever a woman says something remotely feminist it falls on deaf ears but when a man repeats what she said, everybody applauds him so i don't get why they couldn't make seth pull a move like that instead of being an ally just for show
I like this... I thought about this aspect as well and I was waiting for something to happen between Seth and Mitchell but it never came. Nevertheless, he was a light in the movie so I enjoyed him.
I had just watched Promising Young Woman so the whole time I was secretly praying that he wouldn’t become a “nice guy”. but at the same time I was intrigued by that possibility
@@alyssapinon9670 Same Alyssa. I was kinda hoping he would be but also not like you. That's a great film. A true character study and as a bonus says something about society without forcing it down our throat. This movie was kinda cringe obviously but alright. All the criticisms are valid though and would've made this movie better in every way.
idk if it matters but I'm a guy. just for some perspective.
Good point! I didn’t even notice that throughout the film! It’s extremely important for men to speak up against other men’s’ behaviour!
Well first of all he’s Asain no? Also why does this guy has to say anything when he can quietly do it? Some people can’t just do it all loud and stuff. Like he’s human too he probably had his own reasons. Also the fact that most of these characters are unrealistic just saying.
Thank you so much for this video. It addresses the exact same problems I had with this film. While Hadley Robinson was great as Vivian, I'm tired of the POC characters simply only existing to "teach" the white protagonist on how to stand up for themselves. I wish that Lucy would have been the protagonist, since she was already strong and no nonsense, without anyone having to point out what was wrong. In the original novel, Vivian is a lot less naive, and knows exactly what the problem is.
Lucy being the main character would’ve been so much more interesting.
That was the whole point, its about a white teenage girl with saviour complex that takes it too far to the point she forgets what she is fighting for, she makes everything about herself and in the end learns that she has no idea about how other people experience feminism because they dont have the same privilage as her. THAT WAS THE POINT
I swear I see you in every video
exactly, the book was better
Of course 😒 you all have to make it about race
While I liked the attempt of intersection, with diverse characters appearing, hardly any of them were used to their full potential. Vivian doesn't even realise the pressures that Claudia has to go through as an Asian woman, despite being best friends since they were four. In addition, Meg, a wheelchair user, and CJ, a trans girl, had interesting sounding arcs, but they only exist to talk about their experiences, and add nothing to the plot. CJ even has a minor subplot about wanting to audition for the school play, but we never hear how it went.
Yes! It would’ve been great to actually see the other characters storylines instead of them briefly mentioning it. I probably would actually appreciate the film had that been the case.
Thanks for watching love 💕 I always look forward to your take.
I don’t like Vivian period. She’s so ignorant and when Claudia calls her out on it, I was so ready for that moment since the beginning of all the protests among the girls. Claudia was okay sitting out of the demonstrations but she still agrees with the movement and Vivian is annoyed by this. I can understand Claudia’s perspective because you can be scared to support something because of external factors which is a really good gray area to discuss. And when Claudia took the fall for Vivian, I was so mad because she was trying so hard to stay distanced from the movement and still got roped into it.
Edit: I’m famous???
I agree, Vivian was so unaware of the struggles that other characters had to go through, and didn't even realise how privileged she was. It took Seth, Claudia and her mother calling out her toxic behaviour for her to even realise that she took things too far.
Vivian was blind as a bat to all that Claudia was dealing with smh
@@TheBlushBunny Exactly! And they’re best friends and they hang out a lot and therefore Vivian should, in theory, know about Claudia’s strained relationship with her mom
Fr like that scene where Claudia was gonna wear the tank top and her mom was talking about her not being able to go to college for breaking the rules and then Vivian got mad at her I was like... sis.
@@TheBlushBunny yeah her ignorance annoyed me too
i feel like the movie did what it was trying not to, it has a lot of ''token'' characters that are just there to make the movie more diverse and hide the fact that the protagonist is a white american girl with no pressures and a lot of privileges LOL
This. The irony right? Lol
Why would you say that she has "no pressures"?
@Nostradamus Don't pretend to care about the Asian diaspora in America. Ok? The Asian American experience is so diverse and wide. And not every Asian person living outside of Asia lives in America. America is not the whole world. Don't fit us in a box in regards to income. I'd love to let you know about the hate crimes and racism that Asians face in this country, and around the world, but that would be a whole book. PS, in regards to your whole "The only white privilege white people have", thing, I don't know what you classify as "privilege". I don't know about you, but I failed to see hate crimes against white people after the pandemic began. I fail to see hate crimes done to white people because they wear a hijab or a turban. I fail to see white people underrepresented in media and ignored in crucial fights for equity. I fail to see white people sexualized because of their race and reduced to a product of their (assumed) culture. I fail to see white people pulled over by the police and killed mercilessly. White people obviously have problems, I'm not saying POC are victims while non POC are bad. I'm not even saying that, as an Asian person, that I face terrible racism compared to my POC counterparts. But please, educate yourself before you act as though racism and white privilege aren't real.
@@radiocorrective I don't think they meant that she has nothing wrong in her life, or that everything is perfect, but she has a relatively privileged life compared to the others in the movie. She has the freedom to pursue her interests and start a movement, knowing that not only will she have support from others, but she doesn't have her family to worry about, her race used to diminish her words, or anything like that.
I would have loved to see that same movie with Vivian used as a trojan horse: you start with her as the main protagonist, and you subvert the trope by making Lucy the main character halfway through the movie. Seeing the bland white girl with good intentions stepping aside because it's not her place to be at the front of the movement could have been nice.
That's what Orange is the new Black did and it was brilliant.
I was waiting for this to happen… never came.
That’s what they did with orange is the new black. Even the creator said so!!
i was totally expecting that (i love this trope) but then the movie ended and i was like “oh……oh”
I agree with you on everything. It's like, here we go, another movie about feminism told by the perspective of a privileged white girl. Literally anyone else would have made a more interesting propagandist. She was more like, "feeling cute, trying out feminism, idk." And I was really annoyed that they trotted out the black girl at the end who said, "don't touch my hair" as if they were trying to check some boxes. It felt really patronizing. And don't even get me started on how they glossed over the r*pe plot device. This movie had so much potential and they dropped the ball.
Yes to all of this…and That s***** assault plot could’ve been handled way better. The only reason I didn’t talk about it was because of CZcams restrictions.
@@TheBlushBunny yeah, it was just thrown in there!
Literally, my god. It seemed like Viven just chose to be a feminist when she wanted
I did like Moxie, but I agree with you that they could've written Vivian better. I loved Amy Poehler in it Also, a gem in these types of movies.
Yea Amy was good. I’d taken her being the main character over Vivian lol
The movie also never fully resolved the issue of Vivian not understanding Claudia's position as an Asian girl. That whole conflict amounted to about three scenes in the movie and the two girls making up without Vivian really acknowledging why she was wrong. The movie's attempt at intersectionality was barely even a footnote in the overall plot.
Absolutely!
Having an Asian or black (or another POC) girl play Vivian would have made the film so much more interesting
@@caitlingill Making Lucy Hernandez the main character would have made this movie so much more interesting. She was the real feminist and being an Afro Latina girl, they could have told a way better story of intersectionality than what they tried to do.
My main issue with Moxie was not even the white savior narrative, but it was how the main character mistreated ALL of the POC and queer people around her (her best friend, her boyfriend, the other girls in the movement) and then they had the third act low point where no one likes her and she has a meltdown and everyone explains very plainly how shes been ignorant due to her privilege in this situation as a white woman. Which is great i love that they made it clear how the POC felt and what Vivian did wrong. But then they just sort of... forgive her? with no apology or making amends, they just get over it. Specifically with Seth and Claudia it felt super weird how there was no closure to what she did to them. It emphasizes the point that its up to the POC to be patient with the white people who may make a bunch of mistakes and have not recognized their privilege (even though they have been informed of it) because they do the bare minimum. Not a message I think is super good for the feminism movie but go off i guess
“It’s up to POC to be patient with white people” …this is a good observation. Didn’t even look at it that way. ( the whole quote was long to type but Yes! ) lol
Thank you. I was desperately looking for a comment like this
This was my whole problem with the movie.
I stan!!!!!!!! this is such a powerful observation and I was looking for it. i also hate how at the end, she broke into the school, vandalised and came out as moxie, and she was celebrated instead of being held accountable and face repercussions. i cringed at the fact that she was celebrated as a heroine even though, in my opinion, she did nothing so great to deserve that. i really hate how dirty the movie as a whole did claudia, and how viv did claudia dirty too... i am so appreciative for this comment
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT!!! I really liked that they pointed out that Vivian was making mistakes that hurt the people around her from a place of privilege but at the end the resolution is that she doesn't change anything and everyone forgives her. To me it read a lot like her big stunt at the end "reminded everyone else of what they were fighting for" if that makes sense? Because she did not do anything to prove that she was changing or evolving, but does what she was already doing but bigger and was forgiven as though the vandalism was at all related to the actual issues going on between her and the rest of the cast.
I agree, it seemed like she had learned nothing from her mistakes.
They could have added a scene (maybe her writing her essay) about how she rushed into it clueless and what she did wrong and learned from it...
But we just get this "everything is good now" party scene at the end
Liked the movie mainly for the all the characters except the main one.
Vivian was a bit meh for me since she has no distinct personality imo and get the guy (we need more like him) for no reason. Like why does he like her particularly? It's giving Blank slate Bella.
I also hate that they randomly pulled the absentee dad card to give her some depth when she messed everything up. It's not even an interesting plot point to investigate.
All characters were good and I wanted to hang out with them. I like that the girl lost the scholarship even though she deserved it more because it's not a perfect world.
I even loved to hate Mitchell, especially with what we find out at the end of the movie.
So yeah love the movie even it Vivian was a kinda weak main character.
Yea when she started crying about her dad I was like “ Girl what? Where did this come from?” 😂 desperate plea for us to empathize with her. Didn’t work.
And I was wondering why Seth liked her as well. Like what am I not seeing? Lol
So I'm trans and queers so a big problem I had was the fact that they included one scene of two girls kissing, and a scene of a trans girl talking about being misgendered. Both these scenes were things that were never explored and were in the background. the trailer included both these scenes and it felt like they were framing it like it would be very queer inclusive even though the trans girl had one line talking about it, and the two girls just kissed. They didn't have any dialogue or anything. It definitely wasn't homophobic or transphobic but like you said I wish we explored more diverse women's experiences with feminism and misogany, rather than following a cis white girl :/
I think they set things up for multiple movies with different main characters. I think the movie didn't do too well maybe? Then again they made tall girl 2.. Maybe we can suggest this to the woman who actually wrote the book, and have her in list in help from poc. Since that was why she wrote it in the poc of Vivian. She's white and can't truly understand what women of color have to go through, she may have bare minimum understanding tho.
I’ve never watched the trailer but sounds like they were baiting people to watch it because those storylines were definitely not developed. Smh
god forbid they use a biological female for a film about feminism 🤦♀️
@@Druiid.x That's literally not what I said, I like when cis women talk about feminism. Because they not only experience social but also medical discrimination. That isn't my problem. My problem is that they used the only queer characters for marketing despite the fact that they were very miniscule parts of the story.
@@rose2887 yeah, that part is understandable. my bad for misunderstanding 😅 i’ve got a touch of the✨tism✨
At least it’s realistic since YT ppl get the most credit for the least work anyway
It felt like such a slap in the face.
Oof. True
CZcams people do get all the credit
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 YT=white
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 White not CZcams .
I agree with all of this, however I am not upset at the fact Vivian was the protagonist because the author of the book isn't a POC, so as other people said before, she couldn't have written an experience like that which she hasn't lived. I personally didn't get the feeling that Vivian was supposed to be taken as the hero of the movie, just because she was the protagonist, i always thought of her as a girl who was learning and developing herself and thoughts throughout the movie, Lucy was most definitely the more hero like character in the movie and i don't think anyone could deny that.
I liked this movie okay enough, I didn't dislike it for the reasons you mentioned but I do agree with your opinions. I didn't like Vivian's character in general as she was so oblivious to so much for so long. To her best friend's struggles to her Mom's feelings about wanting to date again, maybe it's just me. I know that I was plenty oblivious at her age and probably still am. But there was a point where my frustration with her decisions went from minor to "I can hardly stand her". BTW Seth is best boy, no contest.
Yea, I think they tried to hard at the angle of “giving her purpose “ that they stripped her of having any type of redeeming qualities.
Yesss Seth is a great character!
Wow, you really opened my eyes about the side black character. I didn't thought of that when I watched and I agree with everything you said.
Thanks for watching love 💕
i had read the book before in preparation to see how they'd adapt it, and vivian was def more angering in the movie. it was really just details that they changed that made me go like but why though? like a scene i truly don't get in the movie is when she starts crying about her dad leaving, and it came out of like nowhere, the way it was executed made it seem like she did everything because she missed her dad or something? like it left a really bad taste in my mouth and i'm pretty sure it wasn't in the book at all, so they didn't even add it for a good reason. there is a bunch of things i like about this movie, but really wish it was executed better
Her crying for her dad definitely came out of left field. Lol desperate attempt to get us to sympathize with her. Lol
The reason it's written in the love of Vivian was because it's based off a book, and the author who is a white woman felt she couldn't write the experiences of women of color. Even the writers and the director were white women. I feel like maybe they could make potentially sequels focusing on the other characters and hire women of color to write and direct the movies and make them in the other characters pov. Let's be honest, we hate when white people try to tell us how we feel and how we are supposed to act in certain situations.
You’re right. We do hate that lol they could’ve at least brought in a consultant for the film though
It was originally a book that was great! It talked about real assault and the headteacher was actually a man so instead of the sexists being older women and teenage boys they were men in high places of authority which is more consistent with today’s issues. Netfix watered it down to make it more family friendly and feel good, effectively killing the original point!
I guess my problem with this movie is how distant Vivian is from the issue at hand, like how the video outlined it. I mean, the movie literally begins with Vivian learning about feminism and the patriarchy - which her mom had introduced to her in the first place - so she could write a COLLEGE ESSAY. She only wrote the zine after she personally felt offended by her title, Most Obedient, in the list. When Lucy was making her stance on feminism known on her first day, Vivian silently watched as Lucy was harassed by Mitchell. Toward the climax, Vivian started to lose sight of what she was fighting for, lashing out at her family and Seth because 'they were all part of the patriarchy anyway and didn't respect her as a woman' which was wrong. She didn't apologize to Claudia for forcing her to join her cause. It seemed so selfish.
Well said.
I've seen Moxie and I really liked it. And then I saw a review that talked about how Lucy should have been the main character and how this movie is classic white feminism. And I completely agreed with that. So I liked watching it, but it should not have been about Vivian. And knowing Lucy's perspective would have made it a much more interesting movie. Some times I watch movies but don't really think about them and then later I like to watch or read reviews and think about it with someone else telling me what their opinions about it are. Loved this video and completely agree ❤️
Yea it’s not the worst movie ever but definitely could’ve been a lot better.
I love seeing other perspectives. From reviews and from you guys in the comments.
Thanks for watching love.
Agree with you!
Notice how they found black and POC characters to be supporting characters when they could of easily made one them the lead instead of a white girl. Lucy would of been a good main character.
It's based off a book where Vivian was the main character, and it was written by a white woman who felt she had no right to write about the struggles of poc. Which is true, because she didn't go through it and couldn't understand it in a nuanced way
@@babyfaceweeb8937 ok and they still surrounded her people of color and made her into the hero when she didn't do anything but hide behind a zine. Shes cowering in a corner trying not get caught when people like Lucy was catching all the shots. If that was the case they could of just made everyone white like i'm pretty sure they were in the book.
Why always black or white omg.. what about asian, latinas or middle eastern girls. We need representation too
Can we all just appreciate how Blush not only reads most of her comments, but replies and likes them? So sweet.
Thanks love! I really do try. Lol
I watched the movie, I thought it was cute and forgettable. Case and point, I forgot all about it until this video
😂😂😂 STOPPPP
Lmao sameee
I agree with your opinions. The movie did the book no justice.
Moxie, in the book, was a zine that any girl could write about to show how /every/ girl has a voice and they can speak out because it was anonymous; its just that Vivian started this "newsletter" (she kept correcting people in her pov to zine which I thought was cute). Lucy literally takes this to her advantage and made a zine to raise funds for the girls football team while, in the climax of the book, Emma (?) (can't remember her name tbh) reveals that she was r*ped by Mitchell, using this Moxie zine. In the book, Lucy is the one who takes the fall and get the fault of the "havoc" Moxie caused which makes Vivian feel bad for her because she started the whole thing though Lucy did make her own zines. And not to forget Claudia, who was distant towards Vivian not because her parents were the stereotypical conservative Asian parents but because she was s*xually assulted by Mitchell.
The reason why Mitchell wasn't called out for his behavior in the first place was because he was the Principal's son, and because they didn't mention that in the movie, it really took away some depth to the whole story.
The book has so much more and depth that the movie just seems like it took all that meaning and substance and threw it out the wimdow- it was frustrating to say the least. There's other things I didn't mention that gives the story so much more meaning but still, the movie was not good compared to the book.
Ok so he was her son???!… the vibe was definitely there.
I think the worst part was at the end when they where all standing on that platform shouting what was wrong in the world, completelty ignoring the girl in the wheelchair that physically couldn't. I mean the racism and erasure is still strong but the ableism of that 'empowering' scene disgusted me.
I actually watched this movie with Italian audio and when her bestie (I believe Claudia) was talking about her struggles with her home being strict and her culture, Vivianne said something along the lines of “but I have my own problems too” so I was like 😟- I think it was a loss in translation because it didn’t say ANYTHING along those lines in English but she was basically saying “yeah you have your problems because of Asian culture but I have my own problems too.” LIKE WHA-
When I first saw the movie, it left me a bit empty. I was expecting to see critical reviews, but then everyone was raving about the movie and I was like "oh I guess it wasn't as odd as I thought it was". But now you literally vocalized my thoughts so thanks for making the vid!
Right? After I made the video I searched the hashtag on Twitter and I started to think maybe I missed it. Lol I’m glad y’all are seeing where I’m coming from with it.
Me too, I was so glad to see this video bcos the movie was disappointing and infuriating as hell
I agree with this so much. It was odd to watch but I enjoyed some of it. I wish the lead was different because so many characters had intersectionality and Vivian didn’t. I honestly just think her character is lost and while that can be relatable it’s kind of weird. Like so many people are making a difference and they didn’t just start out of nowhere and freak out when shit hits the fan
This. Hit the nail on the head.
Why do people in power to bring justice ALWAYS fail in movies? It is so frustrating to see principles, leader etc. like that in movies. Anyways, how are you doing?
Definitely models a lot of real-life situations. I've seen a lot of leaders fail, & it trickles down to lower-level employees failing or not helping
Super frustrating.
And I’m good love! How are you?
principals don’t do anything unless parents complain. teachers are too obsessed with the status quo. so it’s annoying in movies but yeah pretty realistic
The principal sticking up for the jock guy was something I could believe as it happened all the time when I was in high school. Especially if said student was the child of a friend or person of power in the town.
I think they were trying to make it realistic
the only thing i liked about moxie was the love interest tbhhhh 😭😭😭😭 and Lucy but I hated how they pushed Lucy into that black best friend stereotype. Tbh she should’ve been the main character.
Definitely would’ve been a much better choice as the main character lol
Basically: Great idea for 2013, meh for 2021.
i wish this was a tv show rather than a movie so they could show more character perspectives
I read the book Moxie about five years ago when I was in middle school and instantly fell in love with it. However, I have to say that I was quite disappointed when I watched the movie last year. The novel version was way more put together. There was way more character development in Vivian, the relationship between the principal and Mitchell Wilson made more sense and the writer did make the problem of people of color (especially black girls) not getting enough credit in the movement one of the subjects of discussion. I suggest that if you felt the same way about the movie, you should try finding the novel. It's still one of my favorites up until now
I think the point of Vivian's character was that she was always so passive about the things that went on around her. Like how Mitchell harassing girls to her was considered normal, he apparently harassed her too and she just took it as something that was normal. She was even voted most obedient by the boys which is disgusting. I think maybe her journey to not just sitting there and being a passive person was a really good story arc. I think maybe if instead of movies from different character's pov, they could have made it a show, and that could have been an arc she has, while also, her not being the only main character and each character being fleshed out. Netflix also could have hired poc to help write and direct so that they can tell a good and nuanced story. There was a lot of plots that could've been explored in the movie and they weren't and I wish they were. This could have turned from a mid movie to a great series or tv show.
This would’ve done well as a mini series for sure. Really dive into each perspective.
I hated how they had Lucy and one of the other girls kiss but then never addressed it. they were like "oh we'll just throw this in for representation points" but didn't do anything else to include it.
Wasn’t that weird?? There was zero inclination that they even liked each other! Lol I started to include that kiss in the video but I’m like maybe the kids are doing that and I’m just out of touch. lol
I vaguely remembered there being a token lesbian kiss in this movie, and when I thought about, I realized the kiss was *Lucy’s.* How do you not build up to something like that for a character that’s supposed to be important? I think that moment (and the fact that it was lowkey forgettable) kind of just solidifies that the movie doesn’t really think of Lucy as a character that needs to be expanded upon; she’s, in large part, just used as a plot device.
Claudia should have been the main character hands down
Would’ve been a much more interesting movie.
moxie had so much potential, while i think lucy could have been a good lead my freind also pointed out claudia could have been a GREAT lead. she already has such a character arc set up already with her mom, and a real reason to stay anon with being moxie because of her family and being a woman of color. like. its actually such a shame she wasnt our main character
This video brings up very important points (comments as well), but i feel that it might be missing a very important piece of information about why the story was told as it was: the writer of the book is white, which is why the protagonist is white, the author knew and was completely aware that she wouldn’t be able to write from a black or woc perspective. And she did her best , but we still need more stories told by woc, and they need to be acessible to mainstream audiences.
You’re right. I agree…Personally I would have at least brought in a consultant for Lucy’s storyline.
Also there was a line where Vivian's mom said when her friend in school was called smelly her friend group didn't wash for 3 days in protest...
i think the issue of centering the white protagonist came from the conflict of staying somewhat true to the book it was based on (which I read) and dealing with the very white feminist message it had. I could be remembering wrong, but I think the MC in the book was a little more bold? Maybe they toned her down a bit to give from for other characters that needed rep more to repere the witness of the book, but it came across weirdly. Overall tho, it seems at least somewhat of an improvement from the book but that's probably only visible if u know the source material
Ok, yea I haven’t read the book. But I’ve seen a couple of people say Vivian was better in the book. They should’ve left her alone if that’s the case. Lol
Guys like Seth DO exist, but I snatched him up as fast as I could 😉. We'll be celebrating our 15 wedding anniversary this year 🥰. Uncannily enough he was the spitting image of Seth 20 years ago when I met him 😂, he's Japanese.
😩… you give the anonymous person that’s definitely NOT me, hope! I’ll relay the message 👀 lol
I like the movie because at first it seems like a feminist movie, but then it’s a movie about racism, but then quickly forgets it’s own plot lines and go’s back to being a feminist movie, then during Vivians dinner with her mom and boyfriend it turns into a horror movie, and then the fight afterwards it turns into the plot of like ten different movies, and then back into a feminist movie. Amazing 👌
😂😂😂
I actually liked Moxie quite a bit. I thought the dialogue was a tad cringy but I appreciated the diversity and the way they portrayed microaggressions (as opposed to the book, which was about much more in-your-face, unignorable sexism)
I think you’re the first comment that prefers the film over the book.
@@TheBlushBunny the movie was much more diverse and realistic than the book
I couldn't even finish that movie
Lol I understand.
I personally liked the movie, and I think the whole point of Vivian being a pushover makes sense to me even after she started Moxie. Cause the whole point is gradually finding her voice right? So it probably wouldn't make sense for her change over night. Like she'll question her decisions along the way / get scared and back track when she might get caught / etc. Cause that pushover mentality she has (which we saw from the start when she tells Lucy to ignore Mitchell) is simply an aspect of her character that she can only shed away slowly.
However, I did feel like the movie did have one main thing missing, and I actually was kind of distantly thinking the same thing until you put it right into words at 7:44 ..... it never discussed how Vivian's experience with feminism/speaking up for women, might differ from Lucy? For example, the fact that Lucy outwardly speaking up for women/girls might be stereotyped negatively due to her race. While if a white girl did the same thing it'd be seen as "empowering". Just thought it could be something they should've given some time to.
I think if Lucy was the protagonist, this aspect wouldn't only be touched upon, but it could be explored well. And honestly it would be more valuable of a story to tell, because we've seen what happens in Moxie in many movies already, it doesnt bring something new to the table. But also, if Lucy was the protagonist, it would give the story a different structure altogether. It wouldn't be about "inner growth" of a character, because frankly Lucy seems to already know who she is. But rather, the story would be about her influence onto others and the insights (especially regarding the intersection of race and feminism) that she has to share. Which honestly is a valid way to write a character too, despite many people thinking a flawed character who develops/changes over time is the only way to write a good character. I mean... good examples of compelling main characters who don't change intrinsically, but change the world around them: Georgia from Ginny & Georgia. Naruto. Deku from My Hero Academia (oddly a lot of anime protags lol). So yeah, I support your notion that Lucy should be the main character lmao.
Love the way you worded this. Great take. 💗
When I first finished the movie the first thing I complained about the protagonist being Vivian and not Lucy, and I immediately ran to check who directed the movie and wrote the script for it. Turns out it was inspired by a book written by a white woman, and the filmmakers didn’t want to write a perspective that they didn’t know besides the fact that it wasn’t book accurate. I’m not a black woman to have a say on whether they were right on avoiding taking a narrative that they did not understand from their own experience, or would have it been better if they had changed the story to have Lucy been the protagonist. Either way, I did like the film because it helped my parents understand some of the many issues that feminism is fighting against, but I agree and totally understand all of your points!!
aww jeez that principal shelly scene hit too close. i had a walmart manager sexually harassing me and then finding reasons to write me up because i kept declining him. and when i finally went to a manager that would listen to me, she was really understanding and told me i need to report this to the store manager. what i didn't expect was my store manager to be a principal shelly. she listened to my problems only to tell me that i must have provoked him and that even if i make an official report, corporate probably won't do anything about it. i was so mad, i just stopped going to work.
Honestly, I think literally anyone who wasn't Vivian, but was part of the moxie movement could've made a better protagonist than she ever would've. Claudia, Lucy, Seth, that one cheerleader and that one trans girl (I forget their names, sorry y'all) would've all made for very interesting protagonists of the movie, seeing as they're actually interesting and having the movie be told from their perspective would've added smth to it that Vivian wasn't able to.
I didn't like the scene where Vivian snapped on her boyfriend and her mother's boyfriend just because they were having a conversation. Like, I get it man, just join the convo oh my god
Initially, I really liked this movie, and my only problem was Seth. Although he was an amazing character and everyone's dream guy, I felt as though he wasn't necessary in the movie. However, after watching this, I agree with pretty much all of your points. and I personally feel as though a lot of the problems of the movie would be solved if it was mostly the same story, but from the perspective of Lucy, and if Lucy made the moxie newsletter.
I definitely agree with you as well. Without Seth, the movie would not have lost anything substantial. They could’ve given him a stronger story.
I feel like the right way to tell a nuanced story about feminism while including a growth arc for the main character is making claudia the main character. i think her perspective is really interesting and probably the most nuanced point of view presented in here; she wants to join the movement but she feels like she shouldn't and faces a lot of pressure from her parents and her heritage. that makes for an INTERESTING character who can start out not really doing anything for feminism yet, as opposed to vivian who is portrayed as like a hero because of her growth. I also think this would have been a way for them to incorporate and explore more diverse perspectives instead of just giving us another white girl with diverse friends whose perspectives aren't deeply discussed or represented.
Claudia would’ve been a great main character.
Thanks for educating me on this subject, honestly had no idea what was wrong with it but I’m really glad I’ve learned :))
Thanks for watching love 💕
I read the book like 3 years before the movie came out, I was SO excited for the movie. I watched it first day and after words I was like.... man that fucking sucked, that was awful, appalling, disgusting. They did the book so dirty
Yea, everybody is saying the book was better.
I've never really seen it mentioned anywhere and it really deeply bothers me but no one is acknowledging that moment when Lucy tells Vivian that Claudia got in trouble for Moxie, where she announces it like this brave heroic thing, taking the fall for it, and Vivian freaks out because that's the kind of trouble Claudia has always worked to avoid. (When they have that conversation later in the movie it's stated that Vivian never even thought about how race might play into it so she probably just thinks Claudia is the way she is because of pressure from her mom or some other factor.) Like yes Vivian was annoyed and alienated her friend for not participating and didn't think about how being POC might have a part to play in that but she knew enough about her friend to not want her to take the fall for it. And what really grates on me is how Lucy responds; she waves it off. "It was awesome, she took one for the team." "She'll write about it on some college application and people will freak. She'll be fine." And you know what, maybe she would have been. We don't know what would have happened to her. BUT NEITHER DID LUCY. Wasn't she already aware of how their school treated girls? And what kind of standards Claudia was already being held to, in her own home and outside of it due to her being a person of color? Because I would have thought that Lucy would be, I dunno, more understanding or sympathetic about what getting in trouble really MEANS for Claudia, especially as another WOC and how they're disadvantaged from the start. And I'm not saying they would have like, EXACTLY the same experiences, but Lucy's whole thing is social awareness and being woke, it would NOT be out of character for her to be aware of what other WOC would be dealing with. Why did they write Lucy in that scene like thatttttt ugh she really said "Ok, wow" WDYM OK WOW???? IDK IT JUST SEEMED OUT OF CHARACTER FOR HER TO SAY THAT IN THAT SITUATION. And I feel like she'd understand the distinction if a white girl took the fall instead, like the movie acknowledged it when Claudia told Vivian that she can't be as reckless as her BECAUSE she's white
I personally love this movie but TOTALLY understand where you’re coming from. Also, I love how you’re totally on Jane Fonda‘s side because a lot of people over look hee good qualities.
i did really enjoy this film because i basically just ignored the main character and was more concentrated on alycia, sydney, lauren and anjelika's wonderful performances, but i totally get your critique . . . sydney park initially auditioned for vivian, what a different movie it might've been if she was in the leading role instead
The fact that you had to ignore the main character lol they really missed the mark.
Having an Asian or black (or another POC) girl play Vivian would have made the film so much more interesting
missed u! So glad ur back with another video
Heyyyyy!!! Missed you guys 💗
This could've been such a good tv show if they had seperate episodes containg different POVs from multiple different characters. It could've started so many different conersations like how cultural barriers can prohibit people from supporting a movement in the way they want to or how movements and identities can intersect with each other and how that creates different perspectives and experiences on feminism and other important topics. They also could've shown how men fit in with feminism and either completly takeover and morph it into something bad OR how they can help educate other men correctly. Basically I will forever be mad they didn't make this into a show.
Seth is litrilly the dude from john mulany's lower your expectations song.
i do really like moxie (its one of my favs) but i do have to agree. it was like they were attempting to show the protest, difficulties, and issues with racism but mostly failed. i think if Vivian had like talked about racism, in her speech at the end, as well because of what her friends taught her, then after making a formal apology to them would have been a good, simple, change. it would show she learned from Claudia and Lucy on the topic and it would make everyone making up at the end make more sense you know
I agree with the stuff you said about the perspective of how this movie was being told, but also the book the movie was based of off was written by a white women, so it also makes sense that the protagonist was white in that sense. Overall, I thought the movie was cute feminist movie that isn't perfect, but like the white main character being called out for her bullshit was nice. I liked the growth she had throughout the movie too, plus all her actions seemed realistic for a teenage girl navigating through feminism and high school etc.
this movie had so much potential to say something important about the issues it presents in a highschool setting especially with it's cast :/// i enjoyed it upon first watch, i think that's because i was viewing in a 'brain off' state and not thinking critically about it's subject matter. after seeing a few reviews of it, including yours, i definitely agree with you! 💗
I just wish we could have seen what happened AFTER the walkout in the end. It felt like the film had no definitive, straightforward end.
I wanted to bring up that this is all a rewrite from the original book written by Jennifer Mathieu. Also wanted to say that the formatting and scripture for your videos are so well done and you’re way underrated. 👏🏼💅🏼🙊
How kind of you. I appreciate that. 💗
I haven’t seen the Moxie movie, but I have read the book, and they seem to be very different. The book fixed a lot of the things you mentioned (albeit, not all of them)
I would recommend checking it out if you’re interested in the story. Great video!
Yea I’m hearing the book was better. I’ll take you guys word for it lol
Solid critique! Lol great energy as always✨
So glad you reviewed this movie, more entertaining hearing you talk about it. :)
Watching it…I would’ve just gotten frustrated and turned it off lmfao
Yea the main character was pretty unbearable lol
And thank you for speaking to my 2 AM regrets lol I was having a moment.
so happy this came up on my reccomended. I watched moxie a while back and was really conflicted. I thought the choices for the different antagonists were pretty good and didnt let all of them off the hook, the way movies usually do when approaching this topic but it still felt really poorly done over all. i had a lot of trouble putting it in to words but your video really said it best. it centers on the least interesting character and really sticks to just her point of view instead of considering how that view is limited or lacking. a really amazing breakdown of the films problems.
As a rape victim I hateddd this movie. The mc had to realize sexual harassment/assault was bad and then SHE is the one who speaks for everyone else?? It didn’t make sense to me what so ever. The movie failed at the commentary it tried to present because the mc was just so lackluster. Like she gets to suddenly care for victims then talks for them. Made me so mad 😭
I thought this video was about the problems with psychedelics for a sec lol
You know what… 😂 I can’t.
Moxie is based off of a book! I’d definitely recommend reading the book! It’s much better than the movie!
in what ways are they different??? does the wheelchair girl get more parts? 😭
When I watched it I got the impression that Lucy was incarge of the movement for the most part and the book was kind of the bace that she used to create a group of her own. I got the feeling that since vivian was the main character her contibtions are highlighted but you can always see Lucy being a leading figure in the movement. I also never really saw other characters treating her like a savior even in the end when they found out she wrote the book they just gave her some quick compliments. The movie does have some issues, Lucy could have been a more prominent figure but I feel like this movie does significantly more good than bad and we could continue to support movies like this that are going in the right direction , make a genuine effort and tell stories that arent told often.
guys like that do exist
This is probably a hot take but I actually found it really interesting for Vivian to be the main character. To make the script about a teen girl who is only just finding out about intersectionality and feminism in a way where the audience is supposed to be experiencing these revelations with her, it would make sense for her to be white. The fact that she had never realised anything about Claudia's relationship with her mother and her own mother's desire to start dating again also makes sense in that she somehow never noticed any of the abundant issues going on with her school before that point.
I almost never say this, but the movie should have been longer. Vivian should have actually apologised to the people in her life and taken steps to improve her relationships and reexamined whether her activism was performative and found ways to center actual marginalised people in her feminism (not saying that she doesn't face any struggle as a woman, but there were POC and queer people who were added to the narrative seemingly just for style points and it would be nice to explore their stories as well). Vivian, as a main character could have been interesting if her character did a lot more introspecting and listening to the other people in her life.
To me, MOXIE fell short for a lot of the same reasons as the original riot grrrl movement; too strong of a focus on the cisheterosexual white woman's point of view.
I agree with your analysis! Maybe, just a suggestion, you could do Heartstopper? The recent Netflix show that *came out*? (Yes that was a pun and I’m not sorry)
im not gonna write a big paragraph like everyone else here (mainly because I don't feel like it)
but I really liked the movie, but now that I see that there are some things wrong with it!! thank you for showing these flaws!! :D
Thanks for watching love 💕
Hooray for saying pop!!
I don’t know how I ended up here, but I’m glad I did. I haven’t seen this movie, but your depiction of it was great! Thank you ❤
Welcome! 🐇💕
i think claudia would have been a really good main character. In cinema we never really see an Asian character who goes through the struggles of being an Asian American or first gen while also trying to be a feminist or something. I agree Lucy would be a great main character, but her character was already amazing. I couldn't see anymore developent happening cause she was already great. But Claudia was more conservative which is pretty realistic so thats why I was super curious on what went on in Claudias mind.
honestly im so tired of the "girl complains about old book in english class" trope. like can we forget about english class? there are other classes like sociology, law, and i feel like in those the message would come out better.
Omg,, i knew there was something that bothered me about this movie!!!! U brought up the issues with it so well omg i thought i had an off feeling about vivien as the protag and how she got the credit for everyones combined efforts in the movie…
i read moxie when i was 11, the film came out 4 years later and i was so disappointed
They rlly could’ve made her friend the main role, her friend seemed so much more interesting.
Right?
oh so we're not dissing moxie from helluva boss?? Thought this was a character analysis of him and the dynamic of the m&ms lol
it’s literally one of my favourite books ever and when the movie came out i was just like….oh.
😂
i understand how this movie absolutely is an example of white feminism and privilege, and how vivian wasnt a very good protagonist (though i did really really enjoy her moxie stuff and feminism ark). but ive also gotta say that when i watched it, (coming from a place of white privilege myself, admittedly) i really really enjoyed the it. and the feminism, especially. it really inspired me and at the time i genuinely didnt see this issues. but this honestly makes me see those issues. but ive somewhat gotta i guess, ask, is it bad if i still enjoy it? although i REALLY would have loved lucy or another WOC as the protagonist, it still made (and frankly, makes) me feel inspired, it makes me want to speak up about these topics. thank you for coming to my ted talk
I think that the film would be better if the main characters were both Lucy and Claudia, because their ways to navigate into feminism are so different and interesting, and includes intersectionality. Vivian is NOT a feminist, she just profits from a battle from Lucy, a BW ( she saw TOO MANY TIMES Lucy suffering from sexist assaults, but did nothing to help her, she was just staring and in the beginning of the movie, was just saying to Lucy that she EXAGERATE) and doesn’t even make an effort to understand the point on why Claudia is not as free as her to be that kind of feminist that Vivian shows to be. She is the reason why other feminist battle of WOC are just in this movie no more than tokenism. That is just white feminism, rounded by intersectional feminism for tokenism interests. That’s it
Love this.
I actually really liked the movie when I first watched it because I wasn’t looking at the underlying problems within it. Obviously this means I have a lot more I need to learn so I appreciate you making this video pointing out the flaws with the movie.
I know you didn’t make this specifically for anyone or anything like that but videos like yours are super helpful because I’m not good at picking apart movies and identifying problematic aspects about them (when of course they’re not obvious or blatantly said).
Also I really love your videos in general and I’m so happy I found your channel!!
I watched this not that long ago! I personally thought it was alright and enjoyed it. But it’s def interesting to hear the things you have to say!💗
Firstly, English isn't my first language, so I apologize for any mistakes.
Secondly, I whole heartedly agree with you with the whole thing about the stars. So many movements started with good intentions but with time, they became just that: a symbol. For example, women's international day. In that day, there are so many stores who take advantage of that and I'm so sick of it. "Here! Come over here to this small library corner to learn about the top most influential women writers!" Why? Why is there a small corner with books written by influential wome for just one day? Does that mean that those writers get their sportlight for one day and then they go back to the shadows? Why?
I'm just so sick of capitalism taking advantage of all of this.
This movie started many stories but didn't finish any for example, Mitchell disappeared after 45 minutes , we didn't see if CJ won a role just audition
I forgot that the actress that played Lucy had this movie coming out.
SETH 😩😩 PLEASE I LOVE HIM
I did not even see this movie yet. And Im so glad I watched this first. It gave everything!! 🫢🤣😩🙌🏾 Appreciate hearing this perspective from a black femme. Thoroughly enjoyed 🌟
i loved the movie. it makes me feel so empowered and it’s my favorite movie
My favorite scene of this movie is the one at the end, when all the girls are screamming. ‘Cause like, i want that.
At first when I saw this video I was like, "No one can have a bad opinion of Moxie!!!" but now I completely agree with this.