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First Block III Super Hornets Delivered
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- The first modified Block III Super Hornets are completed and delivered to the Navy.
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Every Monday at 8PM ET, Mover (F-16, F/A-18, T-38, 737, helicopter pilot, author, cop, and wanna be race car driver) and Gonky (F/A-18, T-38, A320, dirt bike racer, author, and awesome dad) discuss everything from aviation to racing to life and anything in between.
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Gonky, choosing your family's happiness over flying block III Hornets was the best decision you've probably made in your life and Mover knows it
Thank you Sir!!
A real man's choice. Bravo Sir.
@@themoverandgonkyshow Agree, though try and stay current in DCS in case Xi decides he wants to go early. Those Australian F/A-18s are still on the market aren't they?
You blokes should argue for creation of an OT-Hill squadron as last line of defence 😅
Just banter, do love the show. But keep up the DCS
To be honest, the McDonnell side of Boeing has usually performed with the F-15 and F/A-18.
Block 3 Super Hornet - looks and sounds like an amazing jet!!!
I have to chime in to agree about Guard birds. Flying those was a real treat when we got the chance. It's like comparing a 10 year old minivan that's been hauling kids its whole life to an immaculately restored vintage car.
Upgrades, when done right, allow you to get more jets for the same money. When done cheaply, you get even more jets, but as you guys discussed, with more unsolved/unsolvable problems.
My son is an instructor at TOPGUN and they have had 6 Block 3’s for some time now. 3 Echo’s and 3 Foxtrot’s.
I think you were the ones that pointed out in an earlier episode, the 5th gens benefit from operating in theater around 4th gens. Someone compared it to tiptoeing around in a rock concert.
i remember the first flight, the first boat landing , and a thousands of other first`s during my time In the EMD Superhornet flight testing @ NAS pax . what a fun time we had , Man I am getting old...
Lockheed didn't technically destroy the tooling, they did "repurpose" the tooling for the JSF program (now F-35)
Yes, it wasnt ordered destroyed like the Lockheed A-12/SR-71/F-12B tooling was.
Thank you for mentioning guard and reserve maintainers. I worked on A-10s and now my base is refurbishing old f-16s to be like new ones. They are getting all the new fancy modern toys. I’ve heard it many times that guard bases take old active duty fighters and make them pristine while flying still flying them every day. We took pride in how well our warthogs were maintained that’s why other bases got them cause they were the best examples in the Air Force.
Ill get a pilot slot one of these days!
I'm going to make a comment here as someone who have 20 years of experience as an aerospace engineer. You CAN, in fact bring the F-22 back into production, but it will not happen overnight and will cost some money to setup. We (the DoD and LockMart) have the engineering data package for the F-22A and, while the tooling is currently dismantled out at Marietta to make way for other projects, it is not unreasonable to establish a new factory somewhere with new tooling and begin production. I would like to see an F-22C developed based upon the good features of the F-22A, with upgraded avionics and mission systems incorporating all of the latest fighter technologies, potentially making use of the newer P&W F-135 engines from the F-35 as well. That would be a pretty sweet bird for the air to air mission. I would guess a price tag around $20 billion for the R&D plus production setup there, but an F-22C could be flying withing 2-3 years with a properly managed program.
Didn't the F-22 have more sub-contractors and component manufacturers than almost any other aerospace vehicle (2nd only to the Space Shuttle system), in-part to get skin in the game from as many congressional districts as possible to assure legislative passage? That is one of a number of key factors working against any attempt to reinstate the program and stand-up production, given that a number of those subs and manufactures have gone out of business, or have been sold to foreign entities who were barred from acquiring or disseminating classified information and/or materials relating to the program.
Why would we want to when there have been leaps in technology that have passed it by? Waste of time and resources.
@@kmrtnsn name the technology.
@@oubrioko that’s just an issue of time and money as well. It could be accomplished relatively quickly.
@@TheRealCFF Improved radar absorbant materials, improved data-link systems, better radars and missile
Glad you guys are big Super Hornet fans. 🦅😎
Another excellent show guys, I respectfully disagree with one comment, however - I think you guys are exactly what the Pentagon needs to put some common sense into the “brain trust“ decision-makers who only want the newest shiny thing and don’t have a solid grasp on operational needs. I think a spiral development of the legacy F 15, F 16 and F 18 with new electronics makes a lot of sense.
Lockheed didn't destroy the tooling of the Raptor. In theory, they put it in storage in case there was appetite (=funding) for more of them. But a few years later, when USAF asked LM how much it would cost to restart production, LM said that a) the price for doing so would be... eye watering, and b) they pointed out that just because the tooling is there, that doesn't mean that all parts from all suppliers are available, too. So basically, the plane would need to be re-engineered (F-22B?) to be put back in production... which would probably be desirable to some extent (newer toys) but again, the cost was so insane you might as well design a new jet.
Sounds like the Space Shuttle supply chain.
100% ...most jets that are 30-40 years old will have will have maintenance gremlins (more often than not) & even those that don't, they still have a lot of miles on the clock, regardless of what upgrades they've had. As Mover said...better to put $ into new airframes with zero hours & keep the production line open, which in itself provides capability.
...& don't get me started on the whole F-22 production line closure/tooling destruction after 187 airframes . What a massive "own goal" due to lack of foresight & wishful thinking by bean counters & politicians. 😣😤
1000% agree. I remember when congress closed down the F22 and I was shocked. How can people in politics be so short sighted thinking peer to peer wars would never happen again. Don't get me started on the F14...
It just goes to show though that there is an inverse factor between "goodness" and "cost" and that you can make something so good no one can afford it. Literally the "small country" of Australia that produces over $1.6trillion dollars worth of crap every year (measured in GDP) could not afford it then when their balance sheet was basically at zero... so who can afford it now?
I like the bike equation, cheap, fast, light, (expensive) pick two..... otherwise your cost is going to blow out till no one can afford it.
Trust me, Australia asked under the last left leaning government (before our current one), and we were rebuffed not only by being so far down the "fat Amy" pipeline but the numbers didn't make sense....
Well hindsight is good through the rear vision mirror, that the price of an F-35 is now equal to or exceeding an F-22.
I wish we would have bought them in Australia but the costs are outlandish.... and then even, while its great in many factors ordinance is a huge issue. One of the big issues they fixed with the F-35 was the size of the internal weapons and ordinance bays... and yes you can have an F-22 with pylons but that kinda defeats the purpose of stealth.
@@orestes1984 Team 🇦🇺 here also.
@@williamgunter4268yes, the Grumman F-14 Tomcat...one of the best jet aircraft ever designed. Yeah, the bean counters & politicians again stuffed that one up by building too few "D" models. & when you don't have a good quantity of airframes, the cost goes up both at the start & overtime as it becomes a heavy maintenance burden to keep them flying as parts start drying up, leading to cannibalism of airframes.
Is crazy to think that the Iranians have manages to keep some of theirs airworthy into the 2020's given they've been on the naughty list for a few decades.
I appreciate the praise for the maintainers from Mover! Former Navy AT still doin' it at the tip of the spear in RDT&E (around 25 years total Hornet tech), in the hangar and on the line troubleshooting! Some of us 'Shooters actually respect, look up to and LIKE the aircrew that do that stuff.
Checkers forever!
The Marines decided it was F-35 or nothing. The Harriers survived so long due to the Brits retiring their birds so early, giving the Corps a large amount of parts,engines, etc. The Super Hornet, like the trusty SLUF could have worked but with the Corps Sundowning NFOs, killing the Prowler as an excuse to stop EW/EA and focus on EW for the Corps only, they did not want to spend money on things that were not F-35B,H-53K or V-22s. There were several Squadrons of various platforms that were disestablished simply to save money, and the "New Style" of USMC fighting. Even KC-130s were not safe. They were not going to spend money on new airframes that suddenly might get pulled for non-USMC missions. Interestingly, VA-15 and VA-37 did Dets to Iawkuni/MAG-12 and did well. VFA-97 also more recently did MAG-12. But knowing many Prowler guys and seeing how the Corps resented Marine Corps Prowlers not doing Marine Corps things, I doubt the USMC leadership has changed. The Reserve Force was gutted to one VMFA. The Corps wants just F-35s and begrudgingly designed some VMFAs as boat Squadrons. Once the Poobahs decided on the F-35, tanks,Prowlers, F/A-18Deltas, ATARS, and NFO/WSOs were doomed.
@@calvinlee1813 It took me a while to come around to the wisdom of Force Design 2030, but I get the sacrifices made refashion the force. It was a hard pill to swallow, my old squadron was one of the ones axed. But being a “second army” for 30 years in the Mideast with the generals playing “me too” to the army was really bad for the size and composition of the Corps. Getting back to our root mission will preserve the Corps going forward.
@@kmrtnsn What was your Squadron? I have friends from a few MAGs, including one fella who was a Squadron Killer. VAQ-209 was another great unit but was due to go away. All of there deployments support USAF Ops or MAG Ops. They never flew to the boat. Thankfully they did get the Growler but the Marines decided on Drones and F-35s for EW. We will see.
@@calvinlee1813 HMH-463. Personally, I think Force Design 2030 requires more heavy lift but with the Kilos being 200 million a piece what do you trade away to get that? The budget for the Corps isn’t getting bigger, really hard choices had to be made.
@@kmrtnsn I had friends who were there in K Bay before the transition and a few after they went to Echos. I may still have a 463 Business Card! The Kilo is an awesome machine from what people have told me. Rumor is 772 may go away. Was supposed to meet a KC-130 crew the day the same Squadron lost the bird headed to Pendleton.
@@calvinlee1813 I was in 463 so long ago that when I was there we had eight UH-1Ns!
Am I remembering incorrectly that the upgrades include structural work to add 5,000+ hours to the lifespan of the Superbug? Nevertheless, new builds are definitely the way to go. F-15EX has a 20,000 hour airframe, which is basically forever.
When Tomcats were being upgraded Grumman was selling F-14D for US$50 million whilst F-14D(R) was $25 million. Navy wanted 144 D's but got 55 with 37 of them new builds. They take the birds right down. I can't see them NOT doing airframe service life extensions at the same time.
Had a Lot 10 bird that the radio controls would freeze up. Cycle the HUD and it would work fine for another month. Short of downing the bird, removing the front glass, and rebuilding the connector (on a combat deployment) there wasnt much we could do. Pilots hated being the 1st to take that cat shot especially if she was still turning the starboard engine ready to go. We also had phantom problems with the plyon mux in the rain. Wiring was old and cracked and sometimes it had been repaired so many times before it was a nightmare to work with. We picked up Lot 18s when we got back off cruise. VFA-82 AT.
The F-35 is the best thing since sliced bread!!!!!! It will defeat the aliens when they come....I saw it in one of those movies or something....
I'd love to hear about B-52 gremlins... sure, bigger plane, lower performance... but these airframes are OOOLD
Well spoken...
Short and very very educative and informative love C.W lemoine
Awesome and keep Tom Cruise (Maverick) going with the next Top Gun. Mover & Gonky’s next script (Fire Fox’s Revenge. 😂👊✌️
I believe Congress and these district senators need to bring people like you to these hearings to provide clarity and insight into what the blue-collar maintenance worker, and fighter pilots experience with these upgrades versus new jets, because you guys are hitting on all the points that the every day aviator, airframe mechanic, Hydraulics and avionics crewmembers deal with every day. They cannot get the testimonials or the actual insight from looking at spreadsheets. It’s kinda like arguing with LeBron fans over stats in a way because those stats don’t paint the full picture. Same thing with the spreadsheets that they put out with all these little bean counters out there when it comes to allocating money to certain projects. Don’t take into account the man hours, the training, and the myriad of new complications when you decide to gut an old platform and put all new equipment in there versus just buying a new platform. They already equipped that new equipment. sometimes the new platforms were designed with that new technology in mind and when they’re having to try and shoehorn that technology into older equipment, you experience new problems because you may not have the same clearances or tolerances in respect to the housing of equipment. I truly do believe that if they had people like you guys Explaining these things to them they would definitely get a clearer picture and we would probably be spending far less money and getting better results.
I'd like to believe that, but in the end, the politicians are always going to choose whatever they can get for their own districts.
Guys! Everybody! Look here! Its the Super Duper Hornet!
I’m sure the 50th Anniversary of the F16 is being celebrated in the US but is Mover aware a dozen or so nations are bringing theirs to the UK for RIAT on the 19th to the 21st including Netherlands, Finland, Spain, Turkey & Greece. Perhaps they’ll be a Greek - Turkey rematch? Around 6 are flying but all of them will be viewable close up to see the different specs and layouts. 😎😇
With the way the F-35 program is going and the astronomical pricetag of stealth jets.
I believe the pentagon will eventually have no choice but to have limited numbers of stealth aircraft and be forced to upgrade 4th gen. fighters to 4.5+ standards like the F-15EX, F-16 block 70/72 and F-18 block III super hornets.
The F35 program is going quite well and the unit price is below that of some 4.5 gen jets. Yes overall the F35 program hasn’t been anywhere near perfect but it’s past many of those issues. You do realize over 1000 F35s have been built right?
@@cadennorris960 those numbers include early variants with limited capacities.
The F-35 program has been a shit show, and the US expects the rest of the "free world" to subsidise it.
Oh I know what would have been an easier pill to swallow. The DoD greenlighting an export version of the F-22 with upgraded multi-role capacity like the F-15.
They were considering doing just that for Australia, except we're stuck in this shit show also because the conservatives over here greenlighted the F-35 in the late 90s/early 2000s on the basis of a white paper where it was stated it would cost around $60million/unit.
Tell me more about how the price per unit is now circling somewhere over the $100million make and almost on parity with the F-22.
You know all we needed?
An F-22 with a larger internal weapons bay, a slightly better gun, and some air to ground capability.
Tell me how that got fucked up... Oh yeah Britain + the US + Spain wanted an affordable replacement for the Harrier, and tell me exactly why its been the biggest headache?
The Harrier replacement should have been a completely different plane.
I shudder to think about the per-unit cost of the future NGAD fighter! Since it will be 6th generation, the US will likely not have an export variant of NGAD. So the US taxpayers will be on the hook for all the development costs...
@@CentralStateMower F-22 all over again. It’s a bad decision just like when Cheney was secretary of defence and said that the F-14 was a relic of the 1960s and now the navy is basically trying to turn the FA-18 into the F-14 lite for standoff defence since China/Russia came up with a new toy that could fly further than the Phoenix missile?
Gonky said something that the F-22 could be the NGAD lite? Sort of yeah…. If they’d have kept the tooling then maybe they could have finished the FB-22 and not gone with a clean sheet design?
Upgraded engines and weapons/ordinance bays and gun from the F-35.
The delta wing design would have been awesome. The DoD and congress said no for years unfortunately though due to the costs.
But now the DoD wants two clean sheet planes including an upgrade for the B-2 while being more debt heavy than ever.
I hate to be the bean counter in the room but my civilian degrees are political science/international relations. No sane government is going to take on those procurement projects.
Although, purely historically no sane government wanted to militarise space and now look where we are. With enough bad policy implementation even the NGAD will fly while 100 year old B52s are in the air.
Russia plays that game with its Tupelov bombers though also so America is not alone in that game as Putin started up his Bear Bomber patrol of the Baring Strait again because he’s still pissed about Alaska…
95 percent of the F-22 "tooling" is stored at Sierra Army Depot in Herlomg, Ca.
You cant get good aircraft maintenance 4 years at a time
100%
Hope they fixed the GCUs. I was good at changing them, but sucked on the boat. Herd for 20 year they were being fixed. Untill thoose are fixed the electronics will suffer.
A modified F-22 design with greater range and modern systems could be a decent option for a missile truck to replace Strike Eagles. Stealthier than an F-15EX even with external weapons. The issue would be getting costs down to make it competitive on a cost benefit basis even at large build volume.
F-22 is awesome but the price per hour to fly is insanely unaffordable… We need an alternative..
TBH the F-22 line should never have closed, that alone caused the plane to suffer drastically in so many ways..
If they updated the design and component sourcing, it could cost much less. Updating the stealth materials to be much more durable types even if it sacrifices some degree of stealth could also save on costs. Modern avionics can be made to be easier to troubleshoot and replace, saving time and money. Engines could be swapped for leaning more towards lower maintenance instead of maximizing performance above all else. There are ways to reduce costs down closer to a 4th gen aircraft, especially if you are willing to sacrifice some stealth, which makes sense if you are focusing more on maximizing firepower with external stores carried more frequently. First day of war, internal only. The rest of the war, missile truck.
@@stupidburp A missile truck doesn’t need to be stealthy, it needs to have utility, a dedicated interceptor lacks that by definition.
@@kmrtnsn A missile truck needs carrying capacity in terms of hardpoints and load mass more than anything else. But, some degree of stealth can be useful in a modern context by decreasing the safe approach distance, perhaps half as far as a fully stealthy aircraft with internal stores but significantly closer than a non stealthy fighter with high radar cross section. High speed and high maximum altitude are also useful for a missile truck by maximizing the potential range of carried missiles from lofting them from high and fast.
This all also implies a large aircraft with a large nose area for a radar antenna array. The features that make an aircraft a good missile truck also make it a potentially good interceptor: firepower, speed, altitude, range, and powerful sensors. The F-15EX is a good example of this, being excellent both as an interceptor and a missile truck. But it lacks stealth which makes it not quite optimal.
@@stupidburp Any reduction in aircraft RCS would be lost to the external payload and pylons which brings the choice down to cost and numbers, which would you rather have, 1 new F-22 or 2+ F-15EXs?
The Navy looked at the F-35 and said, we’ll wait. And kept buying new Super Hornets. Versus the USAF painting itself in a corner with the F-35A and nothing else. The USAF painted itself into a corner. The Navy didn’t male that mistake
As I understand it, the block 2 supers are upgradable to block 3, but block 1 jets(blue angel aircraft )are not.
Block 3s are also supposed to make EF-18G unnecessary.
Is it just the extra stress of the mission profiles on the fighter airframes that decrease the ability to extend lifespan compared to the B-52s? I’ll also assume the way they have to cram all the wires, hoses and cables into much less space makes it harder to update the planes? I’m 60 and many (most?) of those B-52 airframes are older than me. Yet they are expected to keep flying till 2050.
If they can keep those antique BUFFs flying with continuous upgrades I’d have honestly thought they’d have the know how to do the same for Fourth Generation fighters.
Boeing delivering something early?!
Everything should be quadruple checked again😬
Block 3 combined with the new long range Air to Air missiles make them much more effective than F35.
I believe it is 95 'new' build Block 3s and a decent amount of updated Block 2s to the Block 3 standard. They plan on flying these ladies into the 2040s or beyond so it makes sense. But then again, when has the militarry ever made sense in regard to their decisions?☺
Yep, they will be around for a while since it will take some time for the F/A-XX to replace them.
Hey Guys,
This will not help the Navy much but the USAF has pretty much done exactly what you are talking about with the F15EX.
I just watched a video by Simon Whistler all about it. Some of the comments were along the same lines as you guys say.
If The F22 and Fat Amy finds the targets and threats, then in a connected battlefield it is simple to upload targeting
information to the Bomb or Missile Truck to deal with it. Perfect example made was how many hardpoints on Fat Amy?
How about 22 hardpoints on the F15EX, and the capability to mount the latest long range missiles.
Another point made was that Russia and China keep sending up assets to get the US to kick out something stealthy so they
can test their own sensors. Send up an F15EX which they can see coming, know is a threat, and prevent that vital intel they
went out looking for.
Cheers from Australia.
Andrew
"The Air Force also noted that while approximately 95 percent of the F-22-related production tooling is still available, the physical productions facilities either no longer exist or are supporting other Lockheed Martin programs, such as the F-35"
I want to join the Navy when I’m older and hopefully go to Annapolis for college to be a naval aviator in the F-18. I do hope they keep the 18 on the production line as, while the F-35 is capable and all, I don’t think as of right now anything can beat the “jack of all trades” and “master of none” status of the Rhino/Hornet.
What's cheaper for carrier ops, having a dedicated tanker jet or to use 1/5 of your strike fighters in the tanker role?
Baaed on the comment in regards to upgrade difficulties (wiring and electronics), is F16V (Block 70) better option, than upgraded F-16CM (Block 50 upgrade to standard Block 70)?
1:36 95? Is the Navy moving to one plane per carrier??
Maybe about 8 squadrons total... 4 per coast.
But with RDT&E, busted aircraft, etc... more like 7.
The augmented F-15EX Eagle II cost more than a F-35 off the showroom floor! We're talking 80'ish million George Washington's. The paradigm of airspace has changed. Personally, I believe the hype of "stealth" technology has not lived up to its expectations. For example, S-500 anti-aircraft systems are fully capable of tracking "stealth" aircraft. These fighter-genre stealth aircraft are not invisible; they have minimal radar signatures, yes, but they are not unseen. And, to be quite honest, the whole prospect of another world war is folly. It is never going to happen again due to mutual destruction. That is why the Air Force has revisited the old and reliable, fully available parts option of re-polishing the Eagle.
Not sure about that, All the navy boys inteviewed flying tomcats brag about bagging airforce 15s all the time...
@@just_one_opinion Well,it is the pilot that makes the plane. Navy guys are probably pretty good-they have to be.
With all the problems with the F-35 (still) including their ABYSMAL readiness rate, I suspect that the Super Bug will be around for quite some time. Probably until the NGAD shows up.
The readiness rate isn’t due to the aircraft itself it’s the lack of transparency between LM and the contractors that maintain them.
@@cadennorris960 that is part of the problem; a problem created by Pentagon policy. If the politicians at the Pentagon hadn't RIF'ed all those maintainers and gotten rid of all those in-stock spares we used to keep in stock in an effort to "save money", I am willing to bet the Readiness numbers would be *at least* consistently above 60% instead of the low 50s (if we are lucky).
Instead we get a new "standard" where Higher says there won't be a "standard" anymore (in regard to readiness expectations).
Meanwhile, we'll just ship off another 10Billion to Ukraine....
@@cadennorris960 and yes... It is indeed due, in part as well, to the aircraft. As Mover pointed out, many of those airframes are DECADES old.
How long ago was it that the last Blk40 Viper came off the assembly line?
Yeah, USAF always had that back up fleet of fighters and aircraft that they could pull in an emergency and now because they’re completely exhausting these airframes instead of buying new ones as the bone yard gets older the less we’ll have in reserve to call back in an emergency
It's like saying "We only need SEAL TEAM 1 thru 10, and get rid of the regular infantry"
The fact that the F16, F18, F15 have been around for 50 years is due to their human capability. They push the human interaction to the limit and that's all that can be done for now. Disregarding some type of AI unmanned jet, these platforms will probably be similar for the next 50 years. Whatever is invented after them, the human factor will be similar.
This is like building more battleships in 1936.
Still fighting the last war, instead of getting ready for the next one (ai cruise missile swarms targeting enemy radars).
Yeah it's hard to say, if SHTF here in the near future we have to weigh the quantity vs quality argument. It probably would have been foolish to build an excess of P-36s or P-40s right before WW2 when it would turn out that they would be so very obsolete so very quickly, but then again mass numbers of M-4 tanks, decent, but not perfect, were enough to overwhelm the enemy. The Germans leaned too heavily on technology and chased perfection into the ground and it cost them.
This is all without considering the other allies, admittedly, the Russians did bear the brunt of the fight against the Germans and part of their success was lend lease aid from the Americans, say an excess of P-36s and P-40s were built, well those can be given to allied nations to bring a larger force to bear. Say more Rhinos are built but better aircraft end up coming online, well now other allies can get those Rhinos and be a more capable teammate to bring more weight down on the enemy. The US's biggest strength has always been its industry, if it comes to blows with China especially, its industry that is gonna count.
🤙🤙🔥🔥
We need to let the army & marines have a go at it with developing a cheap new simple but capable long range fighter. Similar to those Russian flankers.
flankers aint cheap. 3d vectoring engines, helmet mounted sights...
What happened to the CFT's that the block-3 was originally supposed to have? I would have though that in the pacific that would have been a more than nice upgrade?
Its listed as an option from boeing on your block 3. The USN specifcally chose not to go with it because manipulating the tank in the confines of the hanger was a massive PITA. So I would imagine the CFTs could be an option for non carrier users like Australia and Kuwait. Australia is yet to confirm block 3 upgrades for its hornets but imagine its going to happen, question is CFT or not
What about those Kuwaiti block IIIs in Belle Chasse
F-35 needs TR3 before it can go to the Block 4, which itself will need more power and cooling from an upgraded engine.
So maybe by 2040...
Hopefully before 2040, there's a few countries waiting on their Block-4 fleets.
@@hoghogwild Hope they have good bridge aircraft because they might be waiting a long... time.
I want to hear more about Growlers negating some 5th gen attributes.
Have you removed your old cruise videos gonky?
There seem to be quite a few vids that didn't transfer over when he redistributed his content to a new account. I remember the one of him riding a scooter in Malaysia, but that isn't available now.
Isn't the KAI KF21 meant to be a fighter without all the bells and whistles and cost of the F35 ? but is also as functional as the latest F16?
Maybe a version of Japans F2 (larger F16) is what the USAF needs? because flying into combat with 3 external fuel tanks and weapons (becoming fatter than fat Amy) just seems absurd to a civilian dummy like me.
The F-35 doesn't have nearly enough juice as it is. Oh wait that's supposed to be fixed with buddy tanking....
Tell me when the fuck was the last time we relied upon having heavies in the middle of a front line conflict and how that worked out.
Oh yeah, a whole bunch of B-17s got shot down over the Atlantic and we decided the flying fortress was not a good idea.
Now we want to revist that concept again, why?
@@orestes1984 drugs are fun eh?
@@homebase5934 So was the Battle for Britain/Germany I was refering to where over 60 B-17s were shot down.
Tell me what a KC-130 for drogue refueling has to do with being on the front line of any conflict and get back to me.
@@orestes1984 what are you talking about? How did you get from F16's, KF21'a and F2's to blabbing on about KC130's and B17's in WW2.
Are you high af? or accidently commenting to the wrong thread/comment?
@@orestes1984 I literally don't know or care what your talking about.
We need to buy a lot more new Gen 4 fighters.
This raises a question - Are the US Marines keeping their 'retired' Harriers in some form of reserve status ) i.e. something short of the boneyard as a contingency? If the sh__t hit the fan there are other flat-tops aside from the US LHDs, America Class etc operated by allied nation's such as Australia that that they could fly off, assuming you had the pilots to fly them.
Seems Western countries tend to prepare for some future war with China in some distant future date penciled in on an outlook calendrer rather than maximize readiness (however imperfect) to 'fight tonight' - or at least sometime short of 2030...
Look at how the British got caught out in the Falklands, and that was not exactly against a near peer threat. They could have easily lost it, and needed US help to win it.
Witness the Landing ship medium fiasco - they have a method right now of resupplying planned EABO bases - a core tenant of deterrence stated in the 2018 war strategy, and for which they are training in Hawaii for now (the land bit anyway). However, they would rather wait till well past 2030 until the the LSM would be ready in numbers to resupply them. Yet they have the ability to undertake minor mods to existing craft which could be completed within a year..
👏🏻🥃🇿🇦
F35C isv delaying F35A production
USMC should handover their F/A18s and F35Cs to the USN
How long till a door plug blows ?😂
This is like Marge Simpson's Chanel dress (Scenes from the Class Struggle in Springfield). How many upgrades can you put on these planes. The FA-18F/G was huge but how long an you keep throwing money at this thing. Mover is right, the more upgrades you do, the more issues you have.
Australia faced this with the F-111. Eventually you will also cycle out the airframe, and then the maintenance hours will horribly exceed the flight hours making it just not even worth flying the things.
Two issues here. You can't keep throwing upgrades at things. Secondly, even if you do, you need new airframes. Eventually we in Australia cycled out both the wings and centre barrels including every single one of them woth scavenging or servicing at the AMARC boneyard.
As to strapping new things on... You run into problems like the new "Phoenix" missile replacement in trying to strap new things onto pylons also....
It's a never ending issue of stressors.
I keep using the F-111 as a reference point because I'm Australian... but the issue is real...
As to Gonky "minus stealth" well the old way with stealth was flying under the radar, but at the same time, can you do that with the technology of today's SAMs. What we know is Russia is having all kinds of problems also with that, and maintaining air superiority with fourth generation jets because of SAMs. Is that a Russia issue or if you let an FA-18 face the same issue would we have the same issue in the West? How long is a piece of string before you need to move onto 5th generation because the air defense has caught up?
The RAAF's struggles with F-111C/G were/are similar to the struggles with the Legacy Hornets with center barrels replacements etc. Similar to F-15C/D issues and also B-1B issues. the B-1B fleet is at around 12,500 hours average, with a single airframe reaching 10,000 back in 2010. The BONE was an 8000-10000 hour jet, the have plans to take them to 2040 when the last B-21s come online. the RAAF Mx hours to Flight Hour was something like 150-170:1 at the end. I thought the F-14 was bad.
@@hoghogwild You pretty much hit the nail on the head of why I bring this up every time this discussion comes up.
Thank you for your efforts mam/sir.
Boeing keeping the tooling on the side is irrelevant, the US Navy owns the tooling and they will decide.. Usually the Navy will store the tooling in Chicago in a warehouse.. Just saying
No CFTs or weapons pod. Just new electronics.
Mover looks like an Air Force version of Ben Shapiro
I get poor man's Liev Shreiber with Mover
@@BlyGuy both jews...interesting LOL
F-22 ... we have the tools.
But the entire production lines are "gone" in that they are now F-35 production lines.
So, to make new F-22's the same way we used to, we first have to stop making F-35 ... or build new factories.
If we are building new factories... then we may as well build at least "F-22C" which may be as much different from F-22A as the F-18E is from F-18C.
I am against that - I prefer to build NGAD to replace Raptors.
However we should build a new airframe to replace F-15. Sorry - F-15 is great, but the EX is not really a new jet, and we are spending new jet money on it.
For about the same money, we could be buying something far stealthier, and with all the bells and whistles tucked in under the skin, and an airframe that can handle more powerful engines like F135 and XA101.
I know we all love single seat jets, but that jet should only come in a two seat model. The WSO should be in charge of the drones flying with it.
Mover and Gonky Congress and Senate 2024
LOL!
Mover, metal fatigues after time. To extend these airframes, they must go thru a thorough inspection for any cracks, etc. These fighters go through extensive forces as opposed to commercial aircraft.
The old issue, steel has a memory, so does carbon actually. There's no winners with that one. You can't keep stressing things before they just break.
He literally said this
@@RedTail1-1 I literally agreed.
@Thunder_6278 That's exactly what Mover said.
Not only inspected, but eventually pretty much rebuilt (like B-52s) to keep them from falling apart.
Editors do better WW12?!
Crap, I'm still waiting for all the books to come out for ww3 to ww11, and now we won/lost 12 too???
First
Second
Who cares
Ilove u're Chanel 🤌🤌🤲🙏👍👍✨👑 this short format video are great