Scottish Footballs Costly Gatekeeping: The 10,000 Seater Rule
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- čas přidán 30. 01. 2024
- During the 90's and 2000's Scottish clubs were made to follow a rule which would cause chaos for those looking to get into the top flight so in this video we'll be looking at the bankruptcies, ground shares and denied promotions caused by the 10,000 seater rule.
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The bit about Falkirk being unable to build a fourth stand because of a "disaster zone" is an urban myth. It's down to finance (and demand).
A myth that just will not die. Really pulls down this video to see it repeated here - you wonder what else he's got wrong.
I believe it was in the blast zone originally,and I'm not to sure but think we were going to build a fourth stand in conjunction with the college or something like that and an EU grant was involved but they couldn't because of the blast zone and by the time the blast zone area was relaxed the EU funding was withdrawn,but that was years and years ago and you're 100% correct it is all down to funding now.
There's Grangemouth stadium across the road from ineos is that built from blast proof bricks 😂. How can the forth stand be in a blast zone, does the explosion just decide its stopping at the pitch, an explosion that big it's wiped out Grangemouth and it decides it's stopping right before it get to the pitch. 😂 Falkirk Council own most of the stadium and a lot of the ground around the stadium. Falkirk Council would want millions for Falkirk fc to get this land to build a forth stand. Most of the offices are owned within the stadium by Falkirk Council. If the football club owned the full stadium and all the ground in that area then they could think about building a forth stand.
Setting up clubs to fail by having them overspend on their stadia isn't a productive way to operate a football pyramid. The Premiership cabal and the SFA ought to be ashamed of their deleterious policies.
The fact is that Rangers and Celtic skew income in their own favour just by existing. Not that it makes much difference when it comes to the European Cup. Making everyone construct larger grounds just for four visits per season by the old firm is financially non sustainable.
But then, the more videos of yours that I watch, the more convinced I am that everything is run purely for Celtic and Rangers. 😊❤❤❤😊
That's an opinion in search of a reality to match. Tempting to believe, but wrong. If it were true, would they have changed the rules so that a club with just 500 covered spaces could play in the Premier League, which they did 10 years ago? They recognised the mistake in the 10k rule and scrapped it.
There's too many teams that don't belong in a professional structure.
Two leagues max.
I remember when Aberdeen were bottom that season, and was relieved there was a rule they could not go down, and did not feel guilty as the rule was already known, but ironically Aberdeen helped allow Inverness up. But I feel sorry for Falkirk there, so hope they win promotion again. As they are a big club.
Nothing about Partick Thistle? Had to build an extra stand and then got relegated even though Inverness didn't meet the criteria set at the start of that season.
Brockville was way better a match day experience than the new stadium, even though the ultras have transformed the atmosphere this season. The 2002/03 Falkirk team was probably the best side we have had in my lifetime. But in a vote of pure self interest they kept Motherwell up after a meeting at Hampden. I was the only Falkirk fan there that night and I gave them a piece of my mind as they crawled out like the weasels they were.
Great channel 👌🏻 keep up the good work
I've really enjoyed all of your videos so far bro
Thank you
Clubs prefer to sell out 3,000 than have a half-empty 8,000.
In general, the larger the stadium the more expensive it is to maintain. It isn't always a case of "build it and they will come".
Your videos are brilliant mate, You’re definitely one of my favourite creators. Keep up the great work 😊
Thank you
Great videos maté really enjoy them
Nit-picking - in 1994, it would have been the Scottish Office, rather than the Scottish Government.
Ah I’d seen Scottish Authorities and my brain must have switched it to Parliament (that’s all I’ve known)
When Inverness Caledonian Thistle won the title they were forced to share grounds with Aberdeen meanwhile Partick Thistle went down and failed appeal
Great video, as an English football fan I love finding out about the Scottish game, feel a bit embarrassed not to know it already
Hiya Callum, when you were talking about the lowest crowd in SPL Gretna V Inverness, what I thought was the game between Arbroath V Cowdenbeath on the 18th December 2000, I think its the lowest crowd ever, the grand total of 44 attended that game, I thought it was a misprint I thought it was 440, but I looked in another newspaper and that paper said 44, I enjoy your content Callum, this is Choppy in Whitehaven, Cumbria, England
44!? That’s Sunday league attendances, must have been a rather miserable day in Arbroath in that case
@@CallumBlythI cant remember what attendance they had the week after
44? Is that just the parents of all the players lol
@@cameronhutton2811 Didn't think of that one
@@cameronhutton2811 No, according to chants heard on the day, some of the players didn't know who their fathers were. The same was said about the ref. 😉
Good vid Callum, I hope Ur channel goes FM strength 2 strength
It does make sense for there to be some minimum capacity, but this should be set at a level where the club has a realistic chance of selling out the stadium. Think of derby matches or when Rangers or Celtic come and bring large away fans. So if a team only gets a regular attendance of 2,000 fans perhaps requiring them to have a capacity of 4 or 5 thousand would be appropriate rather than 10,000.
I would also review allowing terrace standing again. Terracing works well across the lower leagues across Britain. Just make sure there's enough crush barriers and a really safe capacity level so a club couldn't over pack stands like in the old days.
Thankfully safe standing is becoming more popular and is being implemented at grounds
@@CallumBlyth ah safe standing suck IMO. I support a non-league club here in England (as well as Hearts) and I attend with my friends and when there's a group of us we can just stand together in a semi circle rather than a line, and when someone goes to the bar or the toilet people don't really have to move out of their way.
I think a minimum stadium capacity rule should be around 5-6k, which most Championship and a few League 1 teams should manage. If terracing can be managed safely then it should be allowed (although I imagine the police and council politics might make it tough), and most teams should be looking to add safe standing
I don't personally feel a minimum capacity is actually needed. If a ground is small you can just pass a requirement to make the matches all-ticket.
Safe and well maintained facilities are most important.
Terracing is allowed now , as long as it meets specific safety standards .
Just like the Rugby Union Premiership. Caused the demise of London Welsh, London Irish and Jersey.
You miss out entirely my team Partick Thistle who did build the 10,000 seats at Firhill so we could be promoted. Of course this left the club completely skint so they could not afford a team worthy of the top division. The SPL (aka the Self Preservation League) then changed the rules part way through season 2003-04 so Inverness could be promoted with a ground share at Aberdeen and Partick Thistle could be relegated. You would think that changing the rules part way through a competition should be against any kind of serious governance or reasonable standard of treatment of participating clubs - not in Scottish football! Partick Thistle went down through two relegations as the club had to be financially bailed out by the fans and took a decade to recover from this debacle.
Wow I had no idea about Partick Thistle going through this, thank you for sharing this
Dundee were the only club to vote for us to remain in the SPL, as you said the rules were changed midway through the season, normally rule changes don't come into effect until the end of the following season. Corrupt and rotten to the core, they still are.
Rugby union in England has the same 10,000 capacity. The rule was because if the stadium is over 10,000 the local council is in charge of the match day security and not the league. It’s a cost and liable decision.
That sounds like a myth tbh. Local councils provide safety certificates but they have nothing to do with match day security.
That sounds slightly wrong - are you sure you don't mean under 10,000?
@@lukepierce7731 I know it has something to do with the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975 because it gets mentioned constantly within the 10,000 seater rule. Apparently it’s ensure fan safety but the Rfu claims it’s to create a sustainable ‘product’ (I hate that word when it comes to sport) but in my opinion I’ll watch a game in any stadium regardless of how tinpot it is however I struggle to watch any sport with an empty stadium.
No Scottish Government in '94. Not sure who made the rule, but it wouldn't be until '99 that the scottish parliament opened.
Someone pointed out it was the Scottish Office (predecessor of the Government) along with the SFA
yup - John Major government @@CallumBlyth
Falkirk got done. All decent football fans know this.
To happen twice as well is just very Falkirk
We have a different legal system so the Taylor report and subsequent legislation were only in relation to England and Wales and we have never had a legal requirement for all seater stadiums in the top flight in Scotland.
Fyi ibrox was turned into modern ibrox after the disaster in 71....the old east and west enclosures, remained standing to 94 when seats were added. It already held 45k till then...a 3rd of what it did in the past
Deffo get rid of the plastic pitch merchants, dont need that in our game.
Your channel deserves more subs , the way you structure your videos is great . You sound like you have been doing this for years. Keep up the good work.
Also could you do a video about the scottish challenge cup and how it is really weird.
That’s a good idea thank you
Ibrox Stadium wasn't all seater until 1994 when the East and West Enclosure was converted to seating (Bottom tier of the main stand)
Wondering why the video ever described the story of how The SPL changed the rules to allow ground sharing at the end of the season when Falkirk wasn't allowed then went to a SPL clubs votung on the mater, they voted first in favour of not ground sharing and then said they didn't count the vote correctly its onlt 12 votes, then the next hugely swung it towards ground sharing, Partick Thistle lost out and got demoted by the Thistle board at the time said they couldn't afford the legal fees to take it to court at the time
4:05 the rangers have also never been relegated
Begin in the bottom division it was
"The Rangers" let their club die.
Unfortunately some Scottish clubs are also hampered by having the worst playing surfaces known to mankind.
Ban the plastic pitches.
If you still think Hillsborough was an accident...
I never thought about cause I watched Celtic at Hampden in 1994 obviously their only stand held less than 10 k
Aberdeen, and their fans, are probably the only club that think this rule was fine and dandy 😐
Motherwell were saved as well. Very lucky clubs
The more gatekeeping the better, this is blaming the wrong thing for a bad thing.
Maybe it is time for smaller clubs to be allowed to have safe standing areas. It is far cheaper to introduce than all seater stands as old terraces could be easily converted.
It should not be allowed in stadia with capacities in excess of 20,000 as a couple of big clubs could well be tempted to convert modern seated stands in safe standing areas as a cheap way of squashing in more paying customers.
All clubs in the SPFL are currently allowed to have full terracing, never mind safe standing. Celtic have had safe standing for years in their 60,000 capacity stadium. These are easy things to look up.
@@gordon1545 I took the video comments about all seater stadia at face value and didn't feel the need to look anything up.
In 1994 it was the Uk government, the Scottish government didn't happen until 1999
No such thing as the scottish government in 1994 it was the scotland office. All seaters are a good thing the 10k min was a joke however...more clubs need to ground share if they are close together...looking at dundee here...plastic pitches need to be banned
Quite a few "facts" wrong in this video.
Scottish Government was not formed until 1999 so had no part to play in 10000 seater rule.
If meadowbank does not have a bronze licence how is it allowed to be used by Edinburgh City?
I genuinely have no idea, pity maybe?
@@CallumBlyth as i know all too well pity only goes so far
The requirement for bronze licence hasn't come in yet
@@hepburn1959 will it be for next season?
@@cameronhutton2811That's the plan
There are a load of clubs with just Entry licences, not just Edinburgh City. C'mon man, this is all on the SFA website.
I meant in reference to the spfl minimum requirements
The hysel stadium disaster was not all down to hooliganism the stadium had been neglected for years and was already crumbling both teams Liverpool and juventus wanted the game played at a different stadium
It doesn't matter what stadium it was played at Liverpool fans love to take the life of innocent supporters I mean cmon they crushed their own fans to death at Hillsborough do you really think they gave a shit about juventus fans? Of course not they are addicted to licking the blood of their grubby lil hands
Completely fucking idiotic when the rule was in place. Airdrie have a 10k seater stadium - LOLLLLLL. When on earth will they come close to filling it?? Should be a in a 5,000 seat set-up at most. Add other small clubs to the list who never come close - Raith, St J, Killie etc.
Good video, apart from several inaccuracies... including, but not exclusive to...
- Ibrox becoming "an all-seater stadium in 1988" (it was redeveloped from 1978-1981 with three new all-seated stands, but with a standing terrace under the main stand that remained until the early 1990s)
- There being a "Scottish Government" in 1994 (the devolved Scottish Executive wasn't formed until 1999, and although it had been renamed to the "Scottish Government" in 2007, the term wasn't recognised in law until 2012)
- "Two clubs have never been relegated from Scottish football's top-flight, Celtic and Aberdeen" is also incorrect. (other clubs have went bust without being relegated, with some clubs with a previously used name having later been promoted to the top-flight)
I didn't know about Bronze-status stadia though, so that was another interesting tidbit
3:24 - There was NO such thing as a "Scottish Government" in 1994. Ergo the rest of your opinion on show here is null and void.
Check the basics, son.
If they can't fill a 10,000 stadium then they shouldn't be in the top flight. Too many have no support, Livingston, Ross County etc they are dragging the standards down.
This is an absolutely demented take. There are top-flight teams in Italy, Spain and France that can't draw 10,000, never mind in a small country like Scotland. There are only five clubs in Scotland that average crowds over 10,000, and that's normal for a country this size. Do you know anything about football at all?
@@gordon1545 Obviously a lot more than you! Yes lets bring in more diddy teams that'll really improve our game.
There are far too many teams in Scotland
Awful take
@@1874WL There are. It's laughable that teams that get 200 a game are not demoted to an amateur league.
Two leagues would improve massively
Plastic pitches should be banned
You should be banned.