How to Generate Plot Material | Writing Tips
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- čas přidán 4. 02. 2019
- This is a bit more process related and a bit less technique related than I usually aim for, but I tried my best and I am tired okay thank you
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“Mine starts with a vague intangible feeling.”
Uhhh I feel you on this so hard. I feel like my brain just wants to make things more difficult for me sometimes haha.
RIGHT why does my brain make things so hard
@@ShaelinWrites But then does that lead to a specific tangible feeling?
@@rodschmidt8952 hmmm 🤔
focus on what makes the characters unique and make sure the plot reflects, tests, or deals with that
Good tip!
hey whacka
2:55 Study story structure
5:00 just start writing
5:58 organize your documents
6:54 work from inside out
7:41 research
8:19 develop your characters
9:23 talk about your book
10:00 Return to what inspire you
I get a LOT of ideas. My problem is organizing them into something coherent.
Hahah I relate
Same. I can build worlds, but can't do anything with them.
same!
Antgirl89 I barely have ideas so you’re lucky 🍀
YES! OMG I thought I was the only one
“I start with a vague, intangible feeling” is such a mood
1. Study story structure.
2. Get stuff done. Write.
3. Organize your notes.
4. Work from the inside out.
5. Research.
6. Develop your characters.
7. Talk about your book.
8. Return to your source of inspiration.
"If you're struggling with one (plot) but not the other (character), work on the one that you feel like you actually have something solid and concrete to work with because it will feed into the other."
thinking. it gets shit done.
Working out. Washing dishes. Cleaning.
🤷♀️
Going on hikes or just writing stuff down during class/youth group when I should be focusing works best. Lol
My personal tips:
Have strong senses of your characters' motivations/desires
Ask questions, especially why, of possible courses of action your characters could take
*Be open to making changes* to the vague idea you may have originally had for the direction your story was taking, as you will likely end up taking an even better direction
So:
character/mood/emotion/image fuels me; takes a lot of time and work; ideas must fully marinate; won't magically appear
1. Study story Structure - Hero's Journey, 15 beat, 27 chapter - needn't formulaic plot because ; don't have to plot it out beat by beat; use as tools to help understand structure and see things you're missing
2. Get into your documents and start writing stuff; actively work on your book; name the characters; take notes on character profiles; get your brain working on something relatively simple; start jotting down notes
3. Organize what you have so far; messy notes, you can't really see the plot; actively engage with your story; unordered list, just start writing things; then "this is going to go there"
4. Work back-to-front or from the inside out; identify inciting incident, act I break, midpoint, act II break, climax
5. Research something; it's not a knowledge base that you have--if you already have the ideas then you don't have to do the research
6. Brainstorm character stuff; work on the character and it will give you ideas for plot, and vice versa; start with character arc and reverse-engineer the plot: what happens to make them change?
7. Talk to someone: "Can I talk to you about my book?" - they will ask you questions you never considered
8. Return to your source of inspiration: music, build the mood, start with concept, start with vague intangible feeling, binge-watch TV, go for a long walk and wander aimlessly, different environments to cultivate ideas (note: when Woody Allen realized that he had his best ideas in the shower, he started taking several showers a day)
wait... "talk to people about your book"?
like... speak to people? I... don't... hmm...
mood
Sometimes I think of major plot points when dumping random ideas on my friends.
same
Even imagining explaining your book to someone can help, because it forces you to clarify things.
@@clintcarpentier2424 Use a stuffed toy or imaginary friend or your pc screen. :P
I'm one of those authors who have stories pop into my conscious mind so fully developed that I sometimes check to make sure I'm not just recalling another story. They'll be so developed that I have to shave off stuff that happens and use the in other books or in an expanded universe. But nice drop-in of Save the Cat. I find that that helps me streamline my stories. I even put it on my wall.
you're lucky!
Can I have an ice cream scoop of your grey matter please
I totally agree. Just thinking about and focusing on the story can really make things start to fit together. My story went from being historical fiction to being fantasy to being magical realism. It's funny how ideas can evolve into something totally different. I'm now working on my magical realism novel. If the first idea isn't working just keep thinking you might be surprised where the concept takes you.
I was outlining my book today, or should I say I’ve _been_ outlining it for about a month now, and now I’m stuck on trying to add more stuff to the first act. After mulling over it in every class, guess what showed up in my CZcams feed? Thank you so much for the video, a video with just the right topic at just the right time. *Back to outlining and coming up with stuff.*
This video was actually so inspiring that I literally paused it 8 minutes in to go away to do some research for my book. I'll be back later to finish it, don't worry :D
"Go back to what inspired you"
Time to go contemplating how the powers my characters have would be convenient for me!! (That's seriously how I thought up my book idea and that tells you how much I just sit around and think)
Oh the dreaded question... "where do you get (your) ideas from?" I'd like to just say: Life. The world, obviously. That said, you have some pretty helpful points for developing that initial spark & it's good to be reminded of those every once in a while. Thank you for the vid!
Also from your brain
I'm pretty sure Supernatural is currently on season 14 despite the main plot of the show ending in season 5. So yeah, no shortage of material there
One one my characters started out looking like Dean Winchester. Shaelin is clearly inside my brain 😵
Season 15 got confirmed awhile ago. I'm starting to think it'll never end 😂
@@mysterily9215 Seriously? I could have sworn they announced they were ending it after 14. I guess this is a "we'll stop beating this dead horse when it stops spitting out money" situation.
@@clownsims1600 Yep pretty much. I'm just wondering what else is there to even add to the story anymore?
@@mysterily9215 Apparently, nothing after season 15.
One of the best adviced was to think of the outine, and the actions that lead the story as "this happens THEREFORE this happens", instead of "this happens, then this happens" :)
My plot ideas come up in my mind but they’re in different points in the story. I’ll think of the ending for the first book, some kind of beginning for the first book, start of the second book, far into the second book, and know nothing in between.
You said you didn't have a magic answer but this was a pretty damn good answer! I think there's a little magic in it too LOL what it seems that you've uncovered is that the question isn't so much how do you come up with plot pieces as much as what kind of things can you do that cause Plot pieces to make themselves appear. Great stuff! One thing that I might possibly disagree a little on is that it takes time. I mean of course everything takes time but it almost felt like you were saying if you let it sit that these plot pieces will develop. And I do think there's something to that but I like that you brought in that it's much more efficient to do some kind of work on your story to cause those pieces to once again Avail themselves to you. I've had stories in my head for many many years that just never developed into anything that really stuck. In one of these cases I actually needed some outside help with the writing but I think doing the work is the only way to get past something like this. But yeah basically I agree with you and this was actually helpful to hear! Thank you!
Totally agree! I think often times people think they can rush the process (i.e. me saying it takes time) and freak out when they don't have a whole plot very soon, but I totally agree that just giving it time won't be enough in itself in most cases.
Here's a magic formula that helps (much of the way) for plotting!
1. Understand what kind of story you're telling, what general shape is should take (tragedy, underdog, rags-to-riches, heist, etc)
2. Understand your POV characters and their relationships and internal world well enough to place them in the above framework.
3. Identify your PAYOFF. What moments are you building towards? What change?
4. Identify key points that can show PROGRESS for your Character in their story Framework moving towards the Payoff.
5. Group events together to form scenes and chapters. Map them physically and temporally to find intersections.
6. Get messy, get writing, move things around, throw out the first two ideas you come up with - Experiment! (This is how you get the wonderful stuff, like those heartbreaking ironies that make a story unforgettable)
Brandon Sanderson's lectures make up most of this. They're really great resources. I don't read him much but he is an expert in his field!
oh my god the thing about coming up with a vague, intangible feeling is exactly what i do EVERY time.
Glad to know I'm not the only one who struggles with plot. Definitely an imagery/character writer too.
Talking with another person is the BEST for me to get through tough spots! Because they do ask questions you never thought about. If you don't have anyone, go out for a walk with a voice recorder or your phone on record and just talk about your book to yourself. Bounce ideas off yourself or others.
And then listening to music helps a lot, and imaging things in your head.
If there was a formula it would be engineering, not art.
This is super helpful re: balancing structure vs. art.
I find this to be overwhelmingly and distractingly easy. I can't keep up with the ideas.
These are helpful sources of ideas :
1. vivid and active dream life (sleeping, waking, lucid ...)
2. the question "what if?"
3. according to Murphy's Laws ....
4. calvin/hobbes imaginative transformation of people and situations that I encounter
Thanks! This kind of advice is of the best: "Work, fail, done right, fail again, hit the point". This is the only way
Some concepts just write the plot themselves.
I was watching random CZcams videos on movie reviews for a horror movie. And I was like "What if _that_ was instead like _this_ ?" and within 10 minutes I had the main plot mapped out in my brain. Within the hour I had most details of the characters, the location, the environment, etc.
Many weeks later I pick it up again and it start to flesh out the nitty-gritty of the story. All of the frame work was made within that first hour so it was pretty easy.
That was something I did on a whim and it went like a charm.
My pet project on the other hand...... I have lots and lots of pieces of the puzzle, but no Macguffin to tie it all together.
This is such a very helpful video. I feel like I am also very character based in my writing. My current project is based upon my grandmothers life in the early 1900s and based upon the stories that she told me of life growing up in her early years. I try to sit and just think about her and imagine myself in her shoes to get my ideas as to how to develop the story. Television also inspires me as I start a movie and imagine what it would look like on paper in words as I start to see a scene unfold with music, scenery, etc. before words are spoken.
I've pretty much been a scenario/concept-based writer, and it helped me immensely when it came to coming up w/something quick to submit for a fiction class...even when they weren't all that great.
I feel like as soon as I get an idea I tend to focus most of my energy on the characters and the world instead of plot
You're right, walking is important. Just the mechanical act of walking clears the mind, helps you put ideas in order, or clarify them, and generate new ideas or solutions. It's kind of meditative. Excellent video, by the way.
I totally get what you mean by getting inspiration from songs and feelings. I too have made a playlist or two for my stories.
This has nothing to do with the contents of the video but the thumbnail made me think you shaved most of your head and honestly you would nail that. How do you constantly look this good?? not fair
It would be awesome if you did a live stream where you and your fans generate ideas for a novel plot and then organize them into a chronological timeline and eventually into a rough outline. Like for example an idea could just be: "people can communicate across great distances with fire". Just simple stuff like that.
For me reading books related to my genre and watching a series or movie and listening to music inspires me.
It’s good to know I’m not alone. It takes a long time for my story outline to marinate. I’ve been forging ahead with writing as I’m thinking about plotting in the background, so I hope that works!
You're doing a divine work with your channel 🤧💘
yay i'm glad you uploaded i've been productive af after watching your cabin vlog
For some reason, your videos help me come up with lots of ideas for things.
research is such a big one for me... i get so much inspiration from reading non-fiction that deals with some part of the book im writing. and i think a lot of the time you wont only get new ideas for the story, but your background knowledge will also make the story feel more authentic and grounded. love it.
This is one of my favourite places on CZcams!!!
Your advice is really useful and positively encouraging, thank you for your creative effort.
I have to say that I love your channel. I spend a lot of time on videos about writing tips, and there are very few and far between the useful ones in my opinion, but every time I watch one of your videos i always have something i can take with me.
Walking home from school always gave me inspiration. Its wierd.
But. I always just sort of zoned out after I got into the rhythm of walking, and from there It was just a flow of ideas.
And then by the time I got home, I couldnt remember half of it 😂
U inspired me a lot Shaelin... Keep up the good work....👍
FOR REAL THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! I’VE BEEN STRUGGLING FOR SO LONG ABOUT THIS AND I HOPE YOUR VIDEO HELPS! SORRY FOR THE ALL CAPS IM JUST TRYING TO SHOW EXPRESSION LOL
As a pantser, I have only a shiny new idea so I set down and introduce my MC and maybe a few supporting characters. Then they guide me through the plot and back home again. Usually, this works and my novels flow effortlessly. But there are times in editing that I have to stop and scratch my head when the idea is not really working. :)
This is so so good. This is the video I've been looking for! Thank you!
I just started working on a book and I have ideas for characters but I have been struggling to come up with a plot so this was very helpful! Thank you!
Thank you so much, Shaelin. I needed this. ❤️
Pinterest.
Warning: use with caution.
How do you use pintrest for this
Im honestly just asking cause i wanna know lol 😂
I start with whatever I have, then search for images that fit the scenario - this I've found super helpful for generating more ideas on characters, aesthetic, locations etc.
So to be a bit more specific, I've been working on a sci fi novel and spent a fairly large amount of time scrolling thru art on Pinterest to inspire my characters, locations and sometimes actual plot material (in that ruminating way Shaelin describes). This will probably only be helpful if you're a visual person, and also can pull yourself out of a Pinterest spiral sooner or later 😅
@@claremiller9979 hey do you have a writing board? 😀
Lmao pinterest is a very use with caution tool
I'm working on a screenplay for myself, and many of your suggestions are ones I've tried. In addition, I think of dialogue between characters I want to use. It's actually very helpful. 😁
Thank you for this! I'm also more character/mood based as a writer and struggle SO much with plot. But these suggestions are things I haven't even thought of! Hopefully this helps with this one story I've been stuggling with.
Hey fellow mood based writers! We all know the struggle
even if you said you don't have a real answer i think you gave very very solid advice! made me really motivated - i'll try working on characters now :p !
Thank you for this blessing
You've helped me so much and you have such a pretty voice
Helpful as always Shaelin! I’m the same I always start with a vague feeling or idea or something and it’s suuuuuuuper rough lol XD so thank you for this video!
Your videos are SO helpful! Thank you!
so nice to hear how similar we are in our writing! i also always start with a feeling/aesthetic instead of a concept. i could spend MONTHS just making playlists on spotify and pinterest boards before i have a fully realised plot to write. and like you said, the plot (or rather the key scenes) always come to me when i'm out walking in nature? amen shaelin
Great video! I agree with nearly all of it, but I personally take exception to Shaelin's suggestion to discuss your book project with other people. Maybe I'm over-sensitive, but I NEVER discuss any ongoing project with anyone else until I'm ready for beta readers or the final edit. The chance of hearing a dismissive reaction ("who wants to read about THAT?"), which could throw the whole undertaking into doubt - because I'm certainly not convinced about a book until it's done - is just too great for me. If anyone has had different and more positive experiences with this, I'd like to hear about them!
Sometimes I start with a character or an idea of one, or a scene or something like that or this all-encompassing concept that I now wanna work with and thats how a story of mine BEGINS but I never thought about how hard it was for me to generate content and it kind of is! These tips are really good though and I'm happy to say I do some of these already ^_^
I watch the ad at the start cause I know being a student in Murica (Canada too :p) is hard
thank you for your service *tear*
They're always good ads too about writing Master Classes. #ISupportIt
I loved your video about advice for younger writers, would be so fun if you could do something like that again :)
I have a few ways. One way is that I first come up with a character and then think of the most interesting situation to put him in. From there, the plot kind of takes on a life of its own. Second, I have a character that I want to end up in a particular place. How do I get him there? Third, I want to tell a story (normally based on a real event) and the character is put into the story to drive the plot. In all three, I don't have the ending worked out until half-way or three quarters of the way through the writing. Throughout the writing, there are several times when I will take a day or two off from writing to let a thought gestate and eventually a piece of the plot will fall into place. Keep your mind open to ideas. You can be listening to a song, taking a walk, or talking to someone and all of a sudden something clicks. Sometimes during the second draft additional scenes and plot points present themselves.
I need a part 2 of this please!!!
I did this before: I sit down and listen to my parents or friends talking about their lives, their thoughts, or any opinion to a news they heard etc. Then I summarize them into a plot and broke them down to some elements. These incidents happened in a sensible way, very natural. When I had a vague idea, I start to put these bits into places I need them. TLDR: listen and be patient. Also, this video is very helpful for me to work on my new project!
THANK YOU!! This was a great help!
Just daydream for it and jot down ideas that fit the mood of your novel.
Use mind mapping if it get cluttered.
great advice, thank you!
Shaelin for President!
I'm currently working on a script, and slowing story ideas, character designs, even bits of dialogue are all going into a binder. I think that'll help with the organization part.
Digging you already
... I've written two novels, and I can relate to what you're saying.
Ideas and plots just invade my brain all the time that I feel like a crazy person because normal people think about how to navigate life, while I think about weird and unusual plot points and world development all day. I sometimes get very exhausted and try to think of something else, but my mind always ventures back to writing. So, I have tons of ideas for books written on a doc on my pc.
I come up with idea on my way to university too! No idea how it happens, but it just does, and it's amazing!
The big question! You touched upon many good things.
One thing you didn't mention, that I think is important, is to create a premise for your story and study it. Does the premise imply conflict between two or more parties? If so, how does each party go about reaching their goals?
If a man wants to overthrow an evil overlord, he might have to do the following:
- Practice sword-fighting skills.
- Find the materials to create a magic weapon (that can defeat the dark lord/seal him away)
- Gather allies.
In fantasy stories in particular, in which one group of characters may already have a heavy advantage, the question for developing the initial concept into a full-fledged story might be, "What steps/methods can Hero take/use to achieve his goal?", while another good question could be, "How can Villain prevent Hero from succeeding with his steps/methods?"
Unfortunately, while I know a decent amount of how to get stories done, I struggle with finding ideas, maybe because I don't have enough things in life I'm passionate about (except some philosophical questions I attempt to create stories around). I'm also worried that the steps/methods I think about are very unoriginal.
That's why it takes me so long to plan a story even before I start outlining it.
Have you read David Foster Wallace’s short fiction? I enjoy it much more than his novels. His novels are very much written for men, in a sense. His short fiction is more universal. And honestly, some of his stories are absolutely perfect. I’ve only recently begun writing fiction, and I find going back to one or two of his stories really inspires me, whether it comes from a character, a scene, or a theme.
Thanks for the great video!
What I would like to know is how, when you have the ideas, do you find a good way to structure them in your novel. What way is best for any particular genre? How do I plan so I get the pacing right? I struggle to put things in order, in a time line, to get from point a-z, or to stick to an timeline once I start writing, so any basic methods or any ideas that could help would be much appreciated! Thanks.
Find books on plot structure. Watching CZcams videos like this one will only give you a vague idea of what to focus on in your writing, but it won't show you how to actually get it done. Good luck with your writing.
This was very, very needed for me.
Research! Yes! It always gets ideas flowing for me.
You pointed out some great points. I'm one of those people who gets inspired by movies and TV shows.
Sooo helpful! Thank you!
My plot breakthroughs inevitably occur the millisecond I lift my finger from the ENTER key, writing a letter to a friend, complaining about whatever it is the stumbling block I'm having, and asking for their advice-- blah blah blah ENTER-- and THAT'S when the inspiration strikes :-)
This is great, thank you.
I really appreciate you
I love this knowledge
I find it interesting how some people have characters and create the plot to serve them, while others like myself have a plot and create characters to serve the plot (oc that isn't the characters only purpose, once they are created they take on a meaning of their own).
Vague intangible feelings are great for inspiration. Black metal and harpsichord music, along with amounts of coffee and whiskey which would be impolite to consume in the company of non-writers are responsible for some of my best scenes.
Great topic, thanks! How about something for writers who have too many ideas; those who find it difficult to settle on one thing because so many ideas (plot, subplot, characters, setting, interiority, tone, mood, theme, etc.) come to mind? How to find the discipline?
Another tip is to write a random really short short story (maybe a page long). Most of the time they won't go anywhere, but then every once in a while it will spark an entire novel idea.
Supernatural! Whooo! 😬. Great vid
THANKS. I really needed some advice. :)
So like I'm working on my story outline. I had written a scene one day at like midnight and really loved it when I read it the next morning. And it was almost nanowrimo so I thought is this fate? See I'm not really a discovery writer but I thought it wouldn't hurt to try. I tried and immediately regretted it. After forcing words for a few more days I decided to outline a story. Yet still had no idea what to do. So I started detailing the magic system. However world building can become a hole so I decided to go back to the generating plot ideas. I was still pretty stuck. So I started looking up plot ideas online. Including stuff outside my genre. And I just pasted a whole bunch of interesting prompts onto my notes. And then I thought if I could just string a bunch of these ideas together I wouldn't have a problem where I had no idea what to write. Tbh I didn't end up using a lot of the prompts, however I wrote a story synopsis with a bunch of my own crazy thoughts. Then I started organizing those crazy thoughts into the 27 chapter story structure. Those crazy thoughts had enough content to carry my outline through Act 1 with relative ease. And there is still some stuff in that synopsis to help me a bit while outline Act II. However this is around the point I can't just keep adding extraneous ideas so I'm going back to world building and starting character creation to generate plot material.
I don’t know if this is any help (and I’m finding this video really late) but I always make sure to ask myself the question “why” for as long as I can. That feeling? Why do I want it? Or maybe you start with an idea of “a girl was abducted and now she’s back” why? Why was she taken? Why is she back? Why is she back now? Why was she kept for such a long or short time? And then to all those answers I ask why again. For me ideas pop up like that so easily and to each idea I ask why. Is there not a valid, interesting, or logical answer, then scrap that idea or find a better answer
Basically I think it's better to do it by principle than by rule since every story is uniquely different. What those principles are come from what you read and what you pick up consciously or not, and from what you read or listen to about the craft of short story writing. In the second of those, I think it's as important to be aware of what is behind what people say about how to plot or structure a story, eg if the principle is about Chekov's gun, then ask and find out why that is important rather than follow it as a law, and once you know the why you might better know when it would apply or not.
Once you better know what to look for, how to 'see' your story as you check it, then you are better equipped to deal with each story as it comes because yes, every story is a different animal and every story requires a different kind of tinkering before it coalesces into a whole. For me it's important to have good input when I am stuck. Being stuck tells me I need more input of some kind, be it reading another story and picking up stuff, listening to podcasts on writing, watching a movie or TV episode, read a book about plotting a story, etc. anything to input new ideas. It can fuel both the desire and ideas for how to deal with the conundrum of the story.
Failing that, put it aside, work on something else. Come back to it later with fresh eyes. Or ask your writing group or beta readers for another perspective. Or, plot it out in some way, taking the main elements and putting them in a spreadsheet, a set of index cards, etc. so you can map out what is going on. It can take time, but think of he reward of seeing the story under the hood and what you'll learn.
10:30 is a BIG MOOD
Hey Shaelin,
Some time ago I noticed that on your website we cannot see your planned/in the writing progress novels (you can't press the button "Novels").
I was wondering why and if that was on purpose (not wanting to be nosy or anything like that, because it may just be broken). :)
Ly! ♥
I privated that page because I no longer wanted so much information on my WIPs available since I don't know which books I'll write and when. Sadly Wix is terrible and crashes whenever I try to go in and edit the page to remove that header -___-
@@ShaelinWrites ah okay :)
Character/mood/image...lol. Subbed. I'm starting to like this channel.
Shaelin, did you published any of your novels, yet?
Yes or No: in historical fiction from 3rd omni, if there are hard scene cuts that jump forward in time, would you add "one-liners" between scenes like this "6 months later" or "the next day" or "3 hours later"
Those are usually called chronology tags, and it's a good idea to use them! They help make the timeline very clear.
@@ShaelinWrites thanks a million. I like the way you explain things. :)