Tool Company Makes IMPOSSIBLE Claim: Tool Can Break Any Chip
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- Testing Horn's New ground breaking, Chip breaking Tool Live on three different materials. 303 Stainless, 6061 Aluminum & 17-4 Stainless.
titansofcnc.com
00:00 Introduction
01:16 Testing 303 Stainless
04:56 Testing 6061 Aluminum
07:55 Testing 17-4 PH Stainless
11:50 Overview of all materials & Outro
#Machining #Machinist #Engineering - Věda a technologie
I can not express enough how real this test was. I gotta give all the credit to Horn tools because this was hands down the easiest video I’ve made so far. Every material worked perfectly. Good work Ben on the edit!
Chill out Donnie, we believe you 😂
@@wildesthomas8149 😂 I can’t help it. I get excited about this stuff.
So was this original livestreamed somewhere without editing? Because it's really weird to see someone talk about, "gosh, it would be awkward if this didn't work 'cause we're doing it live!" on a clearly edited video that wasn't livestreamed.
This looks good! Are you able to test this with inconel 625? If it breaks the chips on that this tool is golden.
@donniehinske what was the depth of cut?
I don't own any CNC equipment. I will probably never own any CNC equipment. I don't know why I watch your videos and I barely understand anything going on here, but I find it incredibly entertaining still.
Nothing wrong with that. I do it for a living and still get all horny for it and stuff like this.
glad im not alone in this
It gives insight into how things are made and what goes into it.
metal run off is a simple thing metal worker just cut off with a pair of side cutters :-).... I think I get it when I read cnc... there not metal workers, there just machine operators so it would clue in to them.....us... were paid to just get it done no complaining.. got a problem ? think outside the box sorta thing...... were also paid more lol then a guy who just pushes button and twists nobs.. lol probably why they think run off is such a problem ( when in hindsight the machine has no problem with it) LOL
@@HarmonRAB-hp4nk hope all of that is wild sarcasm that flew way over my head. It’s a bit different when working in a precision machine shop. Tight tolerances and surface finishes are not only a product of good quality but an absolute must. If a finish doesn’t allow a part to function quite right or it has .0002 taper to the bore it could be catastrophic. Some of my parts hold pressures beyond belief. They are expected to run at 87KSI and are tested at almost 200KSI. (KSI is 1000 psi’s). So basically a bomb if it fails. Take pride in your work.
Stringy chips when finish turning is such a huge problem. Especially with these small boring bars. I've used them for years and always struggled with the chip. This tool finally having a chip breaker will be so revolutionary for so many applications, especially the medical industry! Great job Horn!!
really? you dont just use a pair of side cutters to take it off?...... I'm sorry you consaider it such a problem, but metal worker's over here dont even care.. its waste... cut it, get rid of it... dont they pay you enough to something that simple?? wait are you a machine operater or a certified metal worker? gotta ask
@@HarmonRAB-hp4nk hate that I even will bother responding to such a comment. Anyone that is running production knows that it is incredibly dumb to stand there pulling chips. The whole point of production is so the operator doesn't have to manually intervene in the process. If that's what you think makes you a skilled metal worker then you obviously aren't one.
@HarmonRAB-hp4nk thanks for concisely illustrating the difference between an operator vs someone who has an actual understanding of the production process. Gotta love it when glorified grease monkeys start talking about stuff they aren’t remotely qualified to speak on.
Been fighting stringy chips on 17-4 for years. Grat video!
I have hardly seen, if ever, a tool so efficient in breaking down chips… amazing, thanks for sharing Donnie
Paul Horn' Tools rule the game of small ID-Turning and Grooving. German Engineering at it's finest...
Horn's got that machinist black magic going, been using their tools for also all sorts of boring and grooving operations for years and they just work.
Which is a huge endorsement in this trade.
I'm trying to figure out how just a coating and not the geometry breaks the chip. Would like to see what happens if he slows it down some. This 'black magic' could be a game changer for small/ mini lathes.
@@gags730 You have it backwards. The new geometry is breaking the chip, the new US coating is for tool life.
@@ScuffedEngineer That is what I thought at first... With the first tool yes even the geometry is different but he says its the coating, Go to 8:47 and watch for like 45 seconds.... its the same geometry, just a different coating. So its the coating he even does a test same tool different coating....
@@gags730 watch everything before 8:47. That should help
@@gags730 Maybe we're interpreting words differently. I think the new coating did worse for the given material, speed, feed and DOC.
That being said, how can coatings affect performance is a can of worms. It could be how the coating is applied. Changes in thickness, thus how sharp the tool in the end is. One vs the other causes more or less friction (do FEA with everything being the same, but change friction values, you'll see the difference in chip formation). Etc.
5:18 "Close the door, Memory"... Bar flying out of the guide bush
would be cool to see a macro video of it breaking the chip.
Yes please.
I've been running 303 for 450 years. This looks great!
Wow, how old are you? Are you a lizard man? 😂😋
Feeds & speeds for immortality, please?
Really like the matter of fact approach to this video. I think when testing things out, this style of video works so well. Great job Donnie!
As an ole timer and manual machinist without any of these new fangled digitally engineered tooling, the one thing I learned the hard way was: Always remove chips stringy or otherwise on the lathe and especially in the chip pan BEFORE you take your last finish cut! Thus ensuring you don't ruin your final pass and part by having all those stringy chips on the lathe and in the pan grab and come flinging out at you in one huge ball of confusion!
No more razor spaghetti?
Razor Ramen
I like that. Might use it.😂
I'm impressed😳 Crazy how much better they break chips! Good comparison video Donnie!👏
If you need a groove in a part then Horn it. They have a tool for everything. Used their stuff for years
Definitely looking into these, thanks for the vid
I run a lot 6061 and 304 I will be getting some of these. Thank you Donnie for the information.😃
No problem dude!
I've bean running 5 axis machines for ever. I'm very good at problem solving. I haven't given a resume threw 5 jobs in the past 20 years cause I thought I'm good. You guys are on another level. You guys make me look like a smuck.
I love these more genuine, less edited videos. Great stuff Donnie 👍
Thanks brohammer 👊
I had to make a macro to retract about .002 to break the chip going into a hole for this very reason, definitely need to check these new bars out
Does it work on contours too?
Love it !! I appreciate u share it.
the faster you bend material the more it tends to snap on its own.
at the same speed, a small ramp indentation behind the cutting tip causes the material to bend in a tight radius much more quickly that it shreds it self apart (thats why the few chips that didnt break are curled tighter than with the old tool) thats also why higher rpm also causes chips to break. thin material resists bending quicker than thick material can, so more feed and thicker chips would do the same, if the tool allows it.
Personally I prefer insert tools for automation, but that little guy does great!
Will it break a chip on nylon ?
I used to do a loop on haas feeding a few thousandths and back off to keep everything from wadding up in a mess.
That’s a tough one! But I will try it if given the chance. I don’t have any nylon here. OR you could buy some of these and let me know 😂
That is really impressive. We always did a lot of plastics and the chips would drive you nuts.
@@bobbywright3479 I’d honestly say nylon is one of the worst. Tornos has their ACB function which really shines on breaking chips on plastics. You may have just given me a new video idea 😂 thank you
I do nylon, it can be a *itch! It can make you scream sometimes.
@@donniehinskelooking forward to this!
Guess one could say Donnie was boring today 😂. Great video guys.
Awesome stuff. In many cases, unless one has 1000 psi of high pressure coolant pointed straight at the tip of the tool, those pig tails just love to hang on. Kinda wish Horn had these with smaller radii though, for those fancy bore profiles that pop up every now and then, fingers crossed. Great job Donnie.
I was so disappointed to see they only came on one size boring bar lol. I've got a couple incredibly tiny bores I would love to use these on. Can't wait for them to expand these to other categories!
amazing what geometry can do , my coworker kept chipping inserts coz he tried feeding them at the feed rate of another insert made for faster feeds to get a chip , he saw the finish i was getting on my parts so i told him my feed rates and hes chipping fewer inserts now , were on manual lathes tho
honestly this would be great for small-parts manual machining too tbh
We just got robots on three of our DMG lathes and now this is my full time job optimising every program to not get ANY stringing swarf. This is awesome! 😎👌
I want more long videos like this. I wish you guys would go more in-depth with the videos showing the whole process. This was an awsome video. I'm a new Swiss user, and these videos have been invaluable.
Noted! Thanks for your feedback!!
@@donniehinske also I ordered these bars as soon as it saw the video. I am running a medical part out of 416ss stringy chips every where. Can’t wait for them to come in.
@@jpa162232 let us know how they work
Could you test it on black PE-HD? Been working a few times with it and couldn't break any chip on it, nevertheless which tools or feeds n speeds I have been using. Do you have any tips on it by chance?
Good job Donnie!
God damn that is impressive. I gotta have my boss order these
Cool, gonna try this
Can you provide the part numbers for those boring bars? I have an application in 17-4 coming up and want to get some
Great video, Donnie! Pliers are your best friend when it comes to removing loose, stringy chips. The most innocent looking chips are usually razor sharp. I wish I could test run Horn’s new boring bars myself!
You're right. We should have known that once Donnie got his hands on these he wasn't going to share.
When will it be offered on the titans of cnc website
Winner! Nice job Donnie!
love these horn mini boring bars but this was the biggest problem with them i found. would be good to have this on their "supermini" boring bars
what coating is it?
Nice work Donnie and kudos to Horn for continuing to innovate and make tools that solve difficult problems!
I use PH horn almost on the Daily I use the RU105 and they get the job done. However, I want that chip breaker badly after seeing this.
Like Project Farm says, "VERY Impressive!"
Yea its worth its weight in gold chip breaker like that, even if the insert lasts 90% the life of some other tool but chips with almost any speed and feed input it saves you so much time in going through the process of trying to balance parameters in order to get something to work reliably.
I can't find it on the website, what is the price difference?
Swisstype videos are the best ones..
Please do a course with SolidCam + Swisstype
It’s coming in our academy at the end of summer.😊
Does it also break chip on plastic like pa6 ?
Have you tried it on 6al4v titanium?
Most CAM software has "Chip break" or "peck" tool path to break chips, works great for roughing, slight surface marks if used on finish pass.
Adds time though. These do not.
I've still got scars from grabbing chips like that with my bare hands...get that man a pair of needle-nose pliers! Really though, awesome tool and awesome demo, keep it up!
Will these work on manual machines? I turn a lot of 17-4.
I am curious about the surface finish with the new tool versus the old.
Me too.
What is the feed, speed and doc in metric?
Wow. Such a small change and such a huge difference. Why wasn't it used before?
Looks promising!! Got any 465 SS ?
So as a screw machine setup operator for many years in Detroit, with tool steel you can groove a chip break in tool steel but carbide is a different monster, but when you get birds nests your coolant can get pushed away and burn your tool all to hell, the carbide tools or inserts should have a chip break cut into them , if the carbide insert is smooth than there's no chip break , if it does have a ridge on the insert and your still getting long chips you just need to adjust the tool until you find that sweet spot,
Is there a way to use boreing bars like this in Mcam? Only options they seem to have are for insert based bars.
as long as you have the basic geometry of the tool, insert or solid shouldnt matter to mcam. just simulation might see insert vs solid.
@@Mikkel-RS yeah it usually doesn't matter, but it gets a bit annoying with small tools. Say i'm using a .09 boreing bar, i can define the shaft dims as the holder, but even if i set the insert dims as small as they go the sim shows the insert much larger than the hole i need to cut, and usually errors out. I'm still pretty novice on Mcam, just seems odd that there is no option for these types of bars, considering how common they are. I'm 6 yrs into the trade and think i've only used my insert bars a cpl times.
@@verakoo6187 For sure, i understand completely. Tool manufacturers like Horn should already have tool libraries for all major CAM softwares ready to load, making it easier for the customer to snap it together and make chips.
Given that 17-4 PH machines differently depending on the heat treated condition, what was the condition of the 17-4 PH? Condition A? H900? H1025? Or smear-city H1150M ? (or maybe another one)
I’m not sure what the spec is because this is 17-4 from my second video that was 18 months ago. I would just assume it’s the easiest one to cut in which case a small bore like this can still be a pain. Good question tho. Sorry I don’t have a better answer
@@donniehinske In that case? Best guess: either H1150D or H1150M. Those two precipitation hardened conditions are pretty common in the oil & gas industry because they meet the NACE requirements for "sour service" and they are the softest most ductile.
"Tight like tiger" you fool lol.
Use these horn bars alot, didn't know they had some different ones. I'll be having a look later 👍
Good to see that son from Blark and Son found his way in life.
I would love to see titanium turning tested with tools like this
Yeah love it and tenx ❤❤
Nothing chatters like a horn 😂 but seriously that’s a game changer. We run lots of 316ss,17-4,nitronic 60. We use Horn and I will be ordering some
I would be curious how this would hold up on inconel and stainless cladding. Looks promising, but I can't get my tooling applicators to try anything new, we're stuck in the 70s-80s.
very interesting test. One thing I would be interested to know is whether anyone has had experience with this. I'm working on a Citizens L20 machine. I have the LFV technology there and this means I have no problems with long chips. Is the tool even worth it?
Almost looks like a flaw that turned out to be functional. Looks like something you could file into any other boring bar. Just file in an undercut in the mild(er) part of the shaft under the cutting bit.
I wonder if another alternative would be to use a cutting bit that sits a bit proud of the shaft it's attached to, so it overhangs just enough to snag on the chip.
Horn is the GOAT for grooving to be fair, so it tracks they do great boring bars too
OMG Hope it works on 316 :D that is one messy boy :D no more checking every few minutes to clean nests.. Hopefully its not super expensive vs inserts
When marketing meets the machinist.
Awesome on metals but I’d love to see the same test running PVC. ABS, delrin , nylon and others. We do close to 80% engineered plastics. Milling is no problem but turning. Holy shit! Talk about your bird nest. Granted you can program a pecking cycle that will break but still not nearly enough. I myself do some manual lathe work and absolutely hate having to get rid of the long stringy chip bird nests. Trust me even with plastic you better be wearing gloves because they can slice you up like a pizza. With certain heavy cuts you can get better results. However lighter finish cuts no way. If there is anyway you could show us just how good it works on plastics that would be awesome!!! Another great video Donnie. 👍🏼👍🏼
I wanna get cnc equipment. I 3D print and design stuff all the time but I’d really like to learn machining so I can design stuff with machining in mind .
The most problems we have is with Duplex. Breaking my inserts so often.
Only thing it's missing is the coolant hole that the old one have ( at least of what I could see from the video )
Yes the coolant hole is in a different spot. It’s aimed right at the cutting edge of the new tool
@@donniehinske okay good to hear since i have tried makeing some parts that would be impossible without the coolant hole ( otherwise we could not get our cutting oil to the cutting edge and flushing out the chips ) really love haveing a coolant hole ( i always grab the boring bar with the coolant hole if there is one is the size and insert pucket when possible )
thanks for providing the info btw
Nice
Slow-motion video would reveal a lot!
Big woo. Run it on Inco 718, Tantalum or Niobium.
I can never get T-1 to break a chip, have to try these out on it
this doubles as instant headache channel, that sound...I'd like it as a hand held button with a speaker in it so I can push it when someone talks
and the finish? because those bars were squeelin pretty good
Get it to break Nylatron and I’ll be impressed.
What I've done in the past if I wasn't taking a ton of material off on a non dimension critical part was take a carbide tig rod and use it as a scribe and etch a line about 030 deep in the material, since we've upgraded most of our tooling to sandvik and betteredge with chip breakers I've been having a much better time.
I live up in Iowa, though I'm an OTR trucker so I'm not home much. But I've been looking into or trying to find some good fabricators to build a bed/lap desk that I've been working on drafting up for in the cab of my truck. I've tried contacting a few places, and pitching my idea, though I haven't gotten a response from either..
I'm not opposed to working with a shop/facility outside of Iowa, it's just a matter of finding someone that's willing to build it, and work with me.
I'm in the gradual process of doing a desktop PC gaming build in my truck, to replace my old laptop. I want to do a layout that's more comfortable, as I spend 6-8 weeks on the road usually with a fair bit of layover time sitting around.(I'm on Salary hauling glass)
Any suggestions on some good shops to try out would be appreciated. It's not exactly a complex build, if I had the appropriate tools, I'd build it myself. Just a matter of finding a place that's actually going to respond to my query.
I live in an apartment complex.. so setting up a bunch of saws, sanders, and such at home wouldn't be very practical, plus I live on the third floor lol. It's dirt cheap living with my roommate, just not practical for certain "hobbies."
Someone throw me a bone man! Any suggestions are appreciated.
This is based upon my super symmetrical patents!! I created this when I was in my moms belly.
I NEED this for titanium please and thank you🤩
How about Titanium Gr2? Almost pure titanium doesn't break properly and it's super annoying when making small holes. Gotta stop it every now and then.
IDK if it the camera but the one that is really good at breaking the chip seems to spin off the cut at a much higher rate of speed and so if in such a simple minded way you spin metal lines fast while hot to cold they may have a better time breaking I wonder if the Geometry or the dip in the took helps it spool faster and well causing breaks, I feel like there is way more to that it was more a observation and frame rate makes it hard to know 100% so just thinking out comment.
Donnie next time youre heckled over machine fire just say _happens when you work_ lol
Great test and great tool. But it's a boring bar with and without a chip breaker. So it's not surprising.
Now try it in 0 temper aluminum. Damn near impossible to break a chip in that crap.
Did anybody see the bar jump out or they edit the video on the last run when he turned the od.
wow !
try 1018
we machine a lot of 1018 (well it's S235 but it's really close to 1018) because it can be soldered and welded easily an the customer doesn't need any strength from the parts but they do need to be machined a be as cheap as possible
I was told in my first apprenticeship that stringy swarf was a good thing. Second apprenticeship they said no.
Who would have thought using a tool with a chip breaker would stop the long ribbons. Mind blown.
Whats next... theyll make the cutting surface replaceable and offer 3 indexed points to it! :)
Yes ... crazy...put a chip breaker and amazing the chips brake 😂😂😂😂
Steel wool genius
You did not speak about surface finish. How is that
Man, swiss tools are cute-sized.
Is "Post an Idiot Selfie" still in the creator's handbook suggestions for drawing viewers???
should've thrown some ti in the mix. make it even more impressive
Try POM plastic :)