Kiev 88 :: Inexpensive Medium Format
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- čas přidán 30. 03. 2015
- The Kiev 88 has long been hailed as the most inexpensive way to get into a medium format modular camera system. You can get an entire system for a fraction of what you'd pay for a Hasselblad.
A few shots I did back in the day on the Kiev 88 - www.flickr.com/photos/tedforb...
But how is the quality? Is it worth it? Or is it easier to save a little more and upgrade to an actual Hasselblad rig?
I've had mine for years. I've had 2 actually - the first one died on me. They are great, but you earn every shot you take. They are extremely finicky and awkward to use. I gained a tremendous amount of knowledge about photography though when I first started shooting mine so I believe their value is in what you want out of a camera.
If you're new to medium format or new to photography for that matter - you will learn a lot. And they are super cheap so its definitely an easy way to get into medium format.
The Kiev 88 was produced in the Ukraine up until about 2009. There are third party companies that bought remaining inventory and modify them. Unfortunately this starts getting expensive so I still advocate the original model.
The Kiev 88 is a copy of the Hasselblad 1000F. Originally known as the Salut - they later boasted a hot shoe and renamed the model the Kiev 80. A few more improvements lead to the classic Kiev 88 design.
I've covered this camera on the show before, but not in a full deep dive review. Today we will finally do that!
Resources:
Kiev 88 on Camerapedia - camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kie...
The Arax Kiev 88 Site - araxfoto.com/cameras/
My original video on the Kiev 88 from 2012 - • Kiev 88 - Russian Medi...
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Ted Forbes
The Art of Photography
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My name is Ted Forbes and I make videos about photography. I’ve been making photographs most of my life and I have a tremendously deep passion for photography that I want to share with you on CZcams.
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Hasselblyat
This has me weezing
I'm dead :D :D
i want to engrave hasselblyat on my kiev)))))) best joke about this camera ever)))))
Nice video 👍👍👍
Hasselbladimir
I love my Hasselbladski.
More like hasselblyat
I understand that it is a lottery... or should I say a Russian roulette,) but I used my Kiev-88 very intensively for about 10 years and NEVER had a single problem with it. Maybe it was just my luck but I think the real reason of my camera's impressive reliability was the mark "Made in the USSR". Mine camera was made in the USSR in 1989 and I bought it the same year. During that years Kiev-88 was produced mainly for military and scientific applications and every camera passed through the thorough quality control system. I still keep my Kiyev-88 but don't use it anymore. Perhaps I'll try to play with it next weekend...)
@@Leo9ine Id be willing to sell my kit with a 80mm F2.8, WLF & TTL finder.
In addition, mine has been gone through by ARAX, upgraded parts and cloth curtains. Over eight or so years I've ran a couple hundred rolls with no problem. It's like driving a vintage truck. The good ones are really good especially upgraded but a bad one will drive you insane. Just don't shoot weddings with it! I use mine for art and landscape for which it's great.
I have an 88 body in ARAX hands right now to upgrade to an ARAX-88CM. The Russians were not kind to his little factory and the rapid wind handles did not survive so this could be a one off. Did somebody saw COLLECTABLE?
sell me your arax. I'm from australia and can't afford the shipping to ukraine :'( @@tplyons5459
2022 April, this video now has a whole new meaning.
Nice video on the Kiev 88 medium format SLR. Thank you Ted. Please: more! :-)
A friend of mine found this camera abandoned in faculty when they were getting rid of old junk. Camera was in working condition with set of lenses and filters and it was my first medium-format camera. I was mostly using it with Kaleinar 180mm f2.8, which is great lens and images came our gorgeous. However I had many problems, like curtain getting stuck in half of the exposure, light leaking e.t.c. Last time I shot with this Kiev 88, it produced half-blurry images for some reason, and I decided to move to more reliable medium-format system. I wouldn't recommend buying this camera, I think it is worth to save money for Pentacon Six, if you want to get into relatively cheap 6x6 format.
Mārtiņš Eglītis yep - sounds like a Kiev!
The Art of Photography
Exactly, While Kiev's designs were often astonishingly brilliant... especially optics, their creative QC meant that they would never perform up to their potential.
You can, however, get one adjusted by hartblei or that other company, arai? arblei? arboreal? Can't remember what it was called exactly. Those cameras will work.
Abhishek cherath Creative QC is an amusing terminology. :D In Finland we often talk about "great tolerances of a great country" or just plainly (jokingly) "Soviet/Russian quality" - it mostly works but it's not perfect.
+Abhishek cherath
Arax is the name of the other company that modifies Kiev 88s
+The Art of Photography As a friend of mine put it - "great design but why did they get an unemployed cucumber farmer to put it together?"
It went out of production because the workers showed up on Monday morning to find all the machinery and the managers had disappeared. They were good capitalists and asset stripped the whole place over the weekend.
"Salyut" is pronounced kind of like "salute" (in English) in some parts of the US, however not like in French.
It's a Russian word. Why anyone would try to pronounce it as in French is beyond me.
@@IanTester its a french word, bruh
@@IanTester @ Just like people trying to pronounce Chinese or Japanese in English, and pronouncing FuKien in Cantonese.
Great episode, Ted! Just bought my first very own kiev88, cant wait to get started!
Ruud Rijkers very timely!
My first camera and the one that made me fall in love with film and 6x6 in particular.
I’ve since moved onto a Hasselblad 500CM but as you mention it was the perfect camera for me at that time as I had a lot to learn and wasn’t sure if I wanted to stick with film.
I created a lot of great images with mine and it has a special place in my collection because of that.
Watching this video with a boxed unused and recently discovered Kiev 60TTL next to me. It was found where my son works and they were going to throw it out. Have the prism, the view looking down ting and as I now know a set of doublers, wondered what they where.Also a solid case. The mirror is by default in the up position but comes down when I wind it on. Goes up with enthusiasm. Thanks for the video, a different camera I know but related. It’s a strangely attractive machine I’m already proud to have.
The main problem is the unreliable camera shutter, but there is a firm Araks in Kyiv, which consists of former specialists from the plant where Kyiv 88 was produced, and is engaged in tuning cameras for amateurs from all over the world. During the USSR, this camera cost a third of the price of a car, or 6 average salaries of a good engineer. From personal experience, yes, it's inexpensive, but disappointment from backlit films will quickly make you look at Japanese counterparts. Good luck and good photos :)
If I were getting into modular Medium format on a limited budget TODAY, my automatic brand choices would be the 6X6 or 6X7 Bronica or Mamiya systems... There's no way I would touch one of these old Soviet war-horse cameras (Salyut, Kiev, "Hasselbladski", whatever). Having to deal with equipment reliability issues AFTER cleaning out your savings account would be a complete show-stopper for me.
Great review. Can you do a review of the Mamiya RZ67 system?
thank you for the review, btw some fellow in my area is selling a kiev 88 TTL with all the stuff like 2 backs, 3 lenses including a volna 80/2.8, filters & a viewfinders for $270. after watching your video i think i'm going to buy tomorrow :)
Great video - for sure the value of these cameras - like the P6 - is how they force you to learn the mechanics of photography - and that's worth a lot -
Thank you for this well done "report" aubout this interessting Camera. And I agree with you: The Kiev 88 is a very cheap way to start up with Medium Formate. Especially the "modified to Pentacon Six Mount" ones, because the Pentacon Six lenses are even very much better as the origional ones. Regards from Germany.
I have gave it thought about getting a Kiev 88 myself to have that modular system. I currently have the Mamiya C330 and I like it but I suppose I want to try a different platform. Great video, great tips and information about this camera.
great breakdown ty
Answer Adams was very fond of the square for,at and as he enjoyed playing with his negatives to achieve print perfection, he didn't mind cropping the 6 X 6 image to fit 8 X 10.
I believe that both 6 X 4.5 and 6 X 7 are good commercial photography for,ate as they will enlarge perfectly to 8 X 10 or magazine size. And stil 6 X 4.5 is almost double than 35 mm!
I have been longing for a Hasselblad for quite a while but I have placed a constraint on myself to use dads Mamiya Standard 23 (Press) and explore all four formats thoroughly before indulging myself into a Hasselblad 500 CM or a 501 C for that matter.
Towards this end I shot two rolls of transparency film (one roll of zeta home SW and one roll of Fuji Astia) commemorating my photography walks with dad, he's 86 now, when we went making pictures to further our calendar business.
Thanks for the dive on the Kiev 88 and I believe that Salut was actually a rocket they had and is pronounced Salyut! Please,correct me if I'm wrong!
Kievs (both 88 and 60) and Pentacon Sxi could be considered cheap in the 90s, when pros still used medium format in studio and wedding work. After they dropped them they came down to the prices of Kiev and P6. The market is literary flooded with Bronicas and Mamiyas that are cheaper and much more reliable.
These said, my Kiev 88 still works without problems. Original, unmodified, with brass shutter curtains.
I have the Kiev 6c with a 90mm 2.8 Vega lens. I can also use Pentacon/ Practisix lenses on it and vice versa. I like the waist level finder on the Kiev with the ability to focus at eye level or waist level.
Single lens reflex medium format cameras are the way to go.
The Bronica EC with the 50mm f4 Nikkor is an awesome set up for the money.
It doesn't have interchangeable lenses but I got into medium format with a Konica Pearl III (645) from the mid 50s. What I like best is that it's a folder and easily fits in a jacket pocket when closed. It also just looks cooler than the boxy medium format cameras ;-)
I has one. Felt like it would break if I wasn't super careful. Bought a Zenza Bronica ECTL II. My favorite camera. Thanks Ted for the great videos.
I never took the risk and got a Hasselblad instead, this thing is A BEAST! Whenever I got some extra cash (or need to do really hi-def studio work) I go for the Hasselblad without a doubt. This camera is probably the best one can get
Blad is your idea of “high def”? Really? Why not just grab an old 12 mpx Canon 5D mk 1 for $150 and have it over with?
@@martyzielinski1442 With a decent scanner Hasselblad is still top of the line for studio work. I got a Rollei now and even with Kodak 400 film I can get better photos than most full frame. It's not just about the amount of pixels, the grain and contrast add something that you can't get from digital.
@@DarkAngelEU -Better than full frame? Don’t bet your bottom dollar on that.......because you’d lose..... (I also have a Blad, and Leicas, and 4x5 Linhoff, and 8x10 Deardorff and Nikon and all the rest.). But if shooting film still does the trick for you, by all means carry on with it. But as of 2002, my Fuji S-2, (now selling for a whole whopping $39 used at B&H) beat out all film formats below my 6x9 Horseman VHR technical press camera. At a rough guess, it was just about equal to the very best 6x6 film image quality at the time, PROVIDED YOU DIDN’T ALSO CROP THE SQUARE NEGATIVE DOWN TO 6x4.5 FOR A MORE EVEN APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON. That rough comparison done around 2003 may not have been fully valid, but the point is that a decent digital setup, even one from way back then, was pretty hard to beat using film.
@@DarkAngelEU -and as for a “decent scanner”, I’ve got both the Minolta 5400 multi scan pro, and the top of the line Nikon Coolscan 9000. (Nikon is better) Doesn’t matter, because my Sony A7 R3 mirrorless with a Sigma 105mm Macro Art can now “scan” those same negatives better than either of those options anyway. Better than a drum scanner? Who knows........but unless you’re really hung up on the “film look” there isn’t much of anything film can capture that can’t currently be done better, easier, and cheaper with digital.
@@martyzielinski1442 True, I just find the digital look to be "harder" to the eye as it's ridiculously sharp nowadays and alot of photography, zoomed in or printed on a grand scale, reveals alot of flaws when it comes to processing the image on the small built-in monitors. I'm not saying all of it is inferior to film, I just think few photographers know how to use digital in a way that actually enhances photography rather than obscuring their lack of skills. Film photographers take their craft much more seriously and afaik my favourite photographers work in an analog fashion.
So yeah, I agree that my point about technical qualities is probably outdated by modern digital equivalents, but I don't see this being reflected by most photographers' work nowadays and especially when it comes to monochrome images.
Video, on the other hand, I'm just blown away by what some cinematographers are able to accomplish with digital cameras and post-production techniques to give it an analog atmosphere.
Kiev I am 88 and love it! ;-)
I'm a medium & large format shooter and I would recommend something slightly different for a modular medium format Camera. I would highly recommend a Graflex Pacemaker Speed Graphic (mines a 3.25x4.2) and my ones been one of the most versatile cameras I own. Its an old press camera with a lens board (the lens is screwed onto a board which is removed), but importantly it has a focal plane shutter (along with the standard leaf shutter in the lens) and rail focusing. Its fairly easy to get a machinist to cut new lens boards (at about £10 total) and fit a mount to them. I got a lens board made which accepts M39 lenses (its just a thread cut into the lens board), and another with a salvaged Praktsix mount attached. The focal plane shutter means that it can technically take any lens that you can make a lens board with (within reason- my Copal 0 won't fit). You can get roll film backs for the graflex (I use a 120 6x9 back) which go for about £30 each and give 8 exposures per roll. Because of the bellows, I've found the Graflex to be really good for macro work, whilst its built like a tank and can survive a fair bit of abuse. On the downside, the camera takes about 15secs to set up and fitting the back with the graflock system can occasionally be difficult. The camera has no double exposure systems and it is easy to accidentally leave a shutter closed and get nothing. The ground glass focusing is good, but it can be slow for people used to SLR focusing whilst the top mounted viewfinder/ sportsfinder has parallax issues. The side mounted Kalart rangefinder is really good, but its not a viewfinder. All those issues are minor and easy to get around (Like shooting a rangefinder or TLR, its just a case of keeping parallax in the back of your mind) and the images are great. The fact that the camera is a work of art in itself doesn't hurt (it and my Leica III are my most beautiful cameras). I got mine for less than £200 in near mint condition with its lens and finders.
The other thing I use it for is as an improvised enlarger. My bathroom doubles as my darkroom and whilst I can get away with a set of trays and chemicals in the cupboard- a normal enlarger is out of the question. I place the graflex looking down on a tripod, lock the focal plane shutter open and place the negative on an improvised negative holder on the back of the camera. Using my darkbag and a cheap LED torch, I shine a light through the back whilst making sure that it doesn't leak. Using the bulb mode on a leaf shutter, it does a good job, but its obviously not a replacement for a proper enlarger.
I picked up a Pentax 645 for around 350$ and the camera is very good. The lenses are sharp from what I have seen so far with it too
Holy what a shutter curtain! I think a leaf shutter in the lens is much preferable in these types of cameras.
This way you can use any cheap lens you want, beginning with projector lenses, large format lenses, etc.
3:49 _The quality control with the KIEV 88 is all over the place._ What? Soviet product with poor build quality? No way! :)
The Zeiss Ikon Nettar is also a good cheap medium format camera to start with!
I never owned a Kiev 88 but I used to have a Kiev 6C and the lenses I had were great. I ended up selling it to a local art photographer and I bought a Pentacon Six. Personally I think the Pentacon Six or the Kiev 6C/Kiev 60 are a better cheap system camera and a bit more versatile despite being slightly less modular. A Koni Omega 6x7 is also a good camera for relatively cheap but somewhat limited. Unfortunately third party makers did not get on board with making accessories like they had hoped. The design did go on to become the predecessor of the Mamiya Universal and Mamiya 6 when they took over production in the late 70s. I also have lots of TLRs and I love them. The Ciro flex was my first MF camera.
Getting back to the Kiev 88 though I have heard that many soviet designs were made with the intention of being simple and easy to fix. I have heard many people who like them refer to it as a pre assembled kit camera. Most of them have taken the entire thing apart and tinkered with them till they work properly and put it back together. They seem to in that sense appeal to those who want to learn how to fix cameras as much as they enjoy using them. Something to consider. Then again you could have Harblei or Arax do that for you.
I have a Kiev 88 and have had a Yashica mat 124G.
My Kiev 88 leaked light.
My Yashica mat 124G was my favorite medium format
camera! I loved it.
Unlike the kiev which had a focal plane shutter, the
yashica mat used a copal shutter which enabled
you to use flash at all shutter speeds. It was great
to use for fill flash say, at the beach.
I preferred the Yashica for it's simplicity and ease
of application. The only downside with Yashica mat
because it's a twin lens reflex camera, you were stuck
with a normal lens.
For a new photographer. There are so many good quality cameras between the Kiev and the Hassleblad. The issues with the Kiev will be a barrier to learning.
I bought few years ago Arax CM MLU (Kiev88CM) which cost like Hasselblad. I sold it cheap. Now I have Hasselblad. Pentacon Six was nice to shoot with too.
My first MF, borrowed from a friend for a year.
I have great affection for the images that I created, but I still have nightmares about that mirror...
Great! Thanks!
Hi Ted, thank you for the video. I was just wondering if the Mamiya 645 series is not a better value for money compared to the Kiev 88. It’s roughly the same price on eBay and the built quality seems better. What’s your view? Have you some experience with this system? Thanks for your show, always valuable insights.
I have had 2 of them ,I got them from a Cruise ship misprision entertainer and i can tell you now it's Foking magic if they work at all.
The Bronica SQA has served me well for about 13 years. Right now bodies and lenses are as affordable as it gets.
I just bought an SQ body for $200 two weeks ago. I was shocked that I could get an entire system for less than $1,000, considering how expensive they were 20 years ago.
I'm looking forward to using it.
I have had three of these camera’s. I also had one that was modified by Hartblei. I sold all of them, and also regretfully sold my Kiev 88 by Hartblei. I have never had any issues with mine. I used them heavy, never had a jam and they always turned out good photos. Maybe I was just lucky, but think they are good cameras.
I will say i was lucky with all the versions I got, started with a Salyut and the the Kiev 80 and also have a Kiev 80 ... was a fun way to use medium format!!!
I just bought at Kiev 88 w/TTL and 80mm lens. Wish me luck! It gets in next month.
How do you like it , dude?
How about a video on the pentax 6x7? It's also a great entry level to medium format and a complete beast.
I hope you kidding. Pentax 67 price is anywhere between 1500-3500$ depending on models. But I guess 6 years ago they were sold for nothing
I have a yashica 635. I like it but it’s heavy and I’m still getting use to the fictional properties of the the camera. New to 120 and I’m not ready to spend a lot of money for a modular Set up. Do you think I should stay with the yashica or should I go for the 88?
Thanks again. Great video.
I am a relatively regular user of this camera and would agree with everything said in the video... however I'd be interested to know the fastest people have experienced the mirror slap being an issue, I can't say I'd know if it were the camera or me causing blur at slow speeds. Either way, I'd recommend a (working) Kiev88 to anyone... low cost means more fun and more use.
I like these old videos.
Love mine.😍
What is your opinion on the Mamiya RB67 Professional SD fSLR and where does it rank with other medium format cameras and systems ? I have this and just love it, even with it's mass shifting the tides.
Has anyone had any experience with the kiev 80? I'm trying to look into it and it all leeds me to the 88. threads for shutter release cable?
I just bought one with the ttl viewfinder and a mir-26b, hopefully the shutter is intact and the shutter speeds are accurate. but as for now i'll probably end up field stripping it and cleaning it out.
How you keep this cameras Clean..? what method you use..Thank you..
Is Russian camera. You can be using pressure washer for cleaning.
I prefer my rolleiflex. With my bad eyes I love the viewfinder
Twin lens reflex cameras are really fantastic but there are limitations using them. USSR cameras did suffer from credit control or lack of it. In the UK, the importer used to check and adjust and fix everyone of them before they were sent to dealers. I have never used a Kiev 88 so I would have liked to see a lens by lens comparison with a midrange SLR, say a Bronica S2a which was at least in specification a similar camera (although a more sophisticated design) during the mid 1970's. I did enjoy the video.
Nobody talks about these anymore, but they did about 15-20 years ago. Sort of like the Yongnuo flash units that are clones of Canon speed-lites and that sell for much cheaper. I know some people who went as far as contacting dealers in Ukraine and Yougoslavia to purchase a Kiev 88 back in the day...
I have a Kiev 60 that I purchased off Ebay last year, which is also a 6 x 6 format. From what I have found on Ebay, the 60 model seems to be cheaper than the 88 model. Also, the 60 models seem to work for the most part, to where many of the 88's are mostly sold for parts. Granted, my Kiev 60 does have some issues, but it does work and have given me good images. Just be careful and read the descriptions carefully. A lot of the 88's sold on Ebay are non functioning cameras.
Thanks for this video I found it very informative.
I'm looking for an alternative to Hasselblad mainly due to costs and this seems to fit the bill. Not sure if I have missed this in your review but can you get a Polaroid back for the Kiev?
I'd mainly be using camera for portraits.
A Bronica might be a better choice.
Funnily enough I bought a Bronica last week off eBay!! ETRS model with grip. ; - )
Wow! If you like it, can I still take the credit? ;-)
+Jennifer M well of course you can!
Excellent!
The general view among camera geeks is that the Kiev 88 was a clone of the Hassleblad 1600F, their original model (the 1000F came later).
If you can get one cheap - buy! I used one about 1995 to 2002 with
30mm fisheye, 55mm, 65mm, 80mm, 120mm, 150mm, 250mm and 300mm lens and Prism Finder with light metering
A really love-and-hate combo. Out of 6 film magazines I bought 4 were not lightproof and only 2 of the 4 keepers usable with IR film.
But some lenses are great, e.g. the 30mm fisheye, the 120mm and the 65mm. 150mm and 250mm are not the sharpest lenses and both have some more issues. The rare 300mm is acceptable.
These Kiew 88 lenses can be adapted to other brands if someone is lucky to get the adapters today. I had the Kiew 88 to Mamiya M645 adapter and used often the 30mm fisheye with Mamiya, sometimes the 250mm lens. I had also a Nikon adapter, but I can't really remember it's use. Perhaps I used sometimes the 120mm and the 300mm on Nikon.
In those days the Kiew 88 was a very cheap and sometimes useful ad-on to my Mamiya gear. I've got all the mentioned stuff for about 2000 Deutsche Mark from a friend and at German photo rumble sales. Russian and polish dealers were always present on rumble sales.
It is really not he best cam, but was quit able to ad some image to my portfolio in thoses days and made some image to sell an print in poster size.
cheap entrance to the medium format? The Moskva-5, or even an early Old Standard Rolleiflex!
What are your thoughts on this Kiev vs Yashica?
hey, need help here.. my kiev 88 shutter is locked when advancing it while the film back is on, i need to pull the back and reattach it so the shutter would make the 'click' sound as it should be when advancing the shutter. is my film back damaged or am i doing it wrong?
Can you use a flash with a Kiev 88. I see there's a hot shoe on the side but will actually trigger a flash?
Hi! I just started with square format and SLR`s in general. Im mosty
shooting with rangefinders. One questions at all who have experience
with both (RF & SLR): is it possible at all with SLR to use zone
focusing just like with an rangefinder? I mean when Im using my
RF-camera on streets, I just set aperture down to 8, I set the distance
at about 3 meters and than I dont have to bother at all about refocusing each
time Id like to shoot. From my first observations , its rather not possible
with SLR and I just have to focus each time. Am I wrong? Could somebody
tell me how it is with SLR?
I was able to buy a Hasselblad system with 2 backs 150mm and 250mm lens, a waist level finder and 45 degree finder and Original Hasselblad case for less than $600. If you search there are good high quality deals around instead of dealing with a cheap cameras issues.
I had an Kiev88 for over 10 years with no problems.
The Kiev 88CM with the Pentacon mount is also made by Arsenal and simply the successor to the original Kiev 88 - no mods involved. It’s also said to be more reliable, produce less internal reflections and uses a cloth curtain instead of a metal one.
I also think you could have mentioned the light leaks entering the film magazine. That’s my main problem with the Kiev 88. Sure, I can switch my film before the roll is full, hurray but that feature is pretty useless, if I have to remove a lot of self-applied llightleak-preventing tape before switching the magazine and then reapply it afterwards. Changing the backs anywhere else than in a dimly lit room, will also cause lightleaks.
I used Kiev-88 TTL for 10 years and never had any problems! Looks like it is a Russian roulette and the main issue is lousy quality control.) But if you are lucky enough to get a good copy it is on par with its Hasselblad predecessor.
It is not just "copy". It is built upon the flawed design that Hasselblad discontinued. The Hasselblad 1600F and slightly improved 1000F.
Hasselblad sold everything, swept the bench clean and started again with a completly new design. They produced the magnificent 500C.
☆☆☆☆☆
So essentially, the Kiev 88 is built from a scrap heap.
When I was tempted by the low price of the Kiev, I also looked to the Japanese "wanna-be" Hasselblads, namely the Mamiya and Bronica modular medium-format cameras. What set these apart from the 'Russian Scrap Heap Challenge", is that Mamiya and Bronica built from their own designs and engineering, and thus each played a distinguished roll in the history of medium format film photography.
If you can't afford, or couldn't back then, a new Hasselblad, you could get a 6x6 Bronica, an SQ model for example, and get to work, knowing you would finish the day without breakdowns. Pick a Mamiya and do the same. The same goes for used gear, across the board now. ( taking into consideration each cameras previous life)
The Kiev is a mugs choice from anyway way you want to look at it.
Seems like a nice alternative would be the bronica s2 or s2a...similar to a hasselblad, nice nikkor lenses, supposedly nice build. Price is usually about $300. I use P67 though, so I'm not really sure.
Hi Ted! When using the Kiew without the snap on exposure meter how do you meter?
And where do you have your images developed?
Thanks! Really considering to get me a copy of this camera.
Markus Kretzschmar I use a hand held Sekonic meter. If I'm outdoors I'll often use the sunny 16 rule. Both were much easier than that weird meter that snaps on. I develop the film myself.
Thanks Ted!
The Mamiya M645 system is pretty inexpensive as well.
GuyPersonLol nice cameras for sure. I'm not crazy about the 645 aspect ratio - I much prefer the square 6x6 - but Mamiya made excellent cameras for sure.
The Art of Photography Bronica made the SQ format. About the same price, just that its 6x6 rather the 6x45.
The Art of Photography Personally, I'd invest in the Pentacon TL system, beautiful lenses for barely anything.
More importantly, the german factories actually had some form of QC
Course, If you really want a hasselbladski, I'd get the hartblei adjusted 88CM, also mounts P6 lenses, which are really a steal at this point... well, except the schneiders and the 1000mm mirror which pops up now and again.
geonerd I have an ETRSi system with 2 lenses, 3 120 backs, a polaroid back, & pelican hard case that I've been trying to sell.
***** Unfortunately, I need the money, or I'd keep it. Many bills to pay.
Mirror slap-up? My Salyut-S (kiev 80) and my friends' Kiev-88 both have less, way less mirror slap than my friend's Hasseblad 500CM and my own Pentax 67 and Bronica ETRS. Only my ETRSi is more or less as steady as the Kievs. You need the mirror foam bumpers replaced on your camera!
I guess I just don't get it. If your only choice is the Kiev or a Hasselblad you cant afford then OK, get the Kiev. In the real world though there is no reason to deal with all the downsides, the biggest of which is the fact that the lenses are pretty bad. The whole point of medium format is to get better quality than your 35mm gear will deliver so why go with a MF system that has crap lenses? As others have mentioned, Bronica is a great choice. None of the "quirks" of the Kiev plus the Bronica lenses are excellent. I've been using an ETRSi for years now and love it and if your looking to go square then as others here have mentioned the SQ system is also wonderful.
I love weird quirky cameras. I have cabinets full of old weird quirky cameras, but for serious shooting I prefer cameras without all the issues.
Great stuff Ted, I'm looking forward to seeing more!
well, depending on what you are after, the available lenses ARE one of the reasons to use kiev 88. i have seen gorgeous photos with the native volna and vega lenses, and with a CM version you can use the jena biometar and sonnar lenses, which are very highly regarded by quite some photographers.
I bought a Bronica S2a for the same reason i.e. a "poor man's Hasselblad", but I like it.
These cameras are tons of fun to handle, but buyer beware.
It is no doubt an inexpensive way to get into medium format, but the camera bodies are notoriously cruddy. I've had a Pentacon Six, three Kiev 88CMs, and a Kiev 60. One of my Kiev 88's and two of a friend's had all sorts of issues, from shutter mechanism failure to spacing issues and curtain failures. The spring on my 88's shutter broke, and no one could fix it, even though it was such a simple little thing. Instead of repairing it I just bought a new body. Still works, but nothing's guaranteed.
The lenses, however, are fabulous. I will never part with my Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 180/2.8. The Arsat 80/2.8 and Flextagon 50 are also fabulous.
I'm really fascinated by TLR cameras, I think they would be fun to shoot..really would change up my photography. Something I'll have to looking into someday. I've always shot digital, but lately been thinking about having some fun with film..but I would prefer to develop it at home instead of waiting and sending it out. Great video Ted.
This is actually a medium format slr mate.
DinosaurFilms I know that.
good
Nicholas Erwin if you want a tlr get a mamiya c system
Hi, Ted, have you anything to say about Mamiya systems? Say Mamiya 645 pro.
Hey! A\hows about a digital back for the 88?
My big issue with medium format is developing the stuff, where I live the only places that process, process 35mm, anything else is done by hobbyists. I have a Canon AE-1 Program and I'm really making the hard decision between staying in film and learning how to process it or making the switch to a DSLR. If I were to stay in film, I would most likely get a Kiev 88, probably a CM version. Great video though, really liked all the detail.
I strongly encourage you to at least try your hand at processing your own film. It's not difficult at all, in time you'll come to enjoy it almost as much as making photographs.... Good Luck!!
I'm an avide 88 collector and looking at this video again I noticed some thing unusual about it. The folding hood is from the Kiev 88CM and it appears to have an Arsat B lens rather than the normal Vol-3. Would you be kind enough to take the mag off the serial number is just below the gold shutter curtain and let me know what it is please?
Yes, it was based on the Hasselblad 1000F. In fact Hasselblad got rid of the lot: lock, stock and barrel. For good reason. The best feature was the concept. Hasselblad realised that modifications would only be half-baked. They decided to start from scratch and build the best possible.
This known, why would anyone even consider investing money on a machine that is based on failure?
Still trying to decide if I should go for it.
As for inexpensive 6x6 SLR... wouldn't Bronica be cheaper, more available, and reliable to be a better 6x6 starter camera(much like some say Yashica to Rollei for TLR)? You can get Bronica S, S2 or SQ body, back, WLF or prism, and 80mm for less than $300. Of course, there are even more options if you are okay with 645 format. As much as I love my 500c/m, both Bronica and Mamiya perform very well without breaking the bank.
I own one of these but when I bought it, it was modified in a real weird way. It's got the CM mount, black cloth shutter and the weirdest part…. The back isn't removable. It's got this weird clamshell setup where you can remove the insert which holds the roll of film but there's no darkslide and you can't remove the whole back.
Really enjoyable video! However, I would much appreciate a Hasselblad superdeepdive! :-)
Hey The Art of Photography :)
Well, do you know what kind of Kiev you have? Because my Kiev is different. For example I have more exposure times like 1/15, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 and 1 second.
And I have a Pentacon Mount, which allows me to use the good Carl Zeiss lenses like the 80mm Biometar, the 180mm Sonnar or the 40mm Flektogon
And with this lenses and a little bit of skill and luck, I would say, I am able to beat a Hasselblad up.
Because this I say the same you did: Its a great, cheap way to start modular medium format, which teaches you a lot. :)
can you get a digital back for the kiev 88?
Poor mans hasselblad.
I bought one of kiev88 because on the first steps of film photography - you're better spend money on film rather lenses and cameras. More practise are better teacher than good camera.
i am from Kiev and i can say that the factory actually is still producing different accessories and lenses for cameras like Kiev 88 or Kiev 19 ( which i love, use regulary and it has Nikon bayonet mount ) which they still have in stock from previous years. For example, here in their shop arsenal.co.ua/?page_id=112 new 88 costs around $170.
True. The CM mount model with 2.8/80 lens, two magazines and lightmeter for GBP 114.
This or a very good 35mm SLR with good lenses?
When i went to Munich to a analog camera stor run by 2 old french men they refused to sell me a Kiev 88. They said it sucked and could not be compared with the Hasselblad. A funny experience.
So they had one in store but didn't want to sell it to you?
What about Bronica?
Not that there is no free lunch; there also is no cheap lunch.
Maybe important to point out that all of the Pentacon Six lenses are the same quality as the Hasselblad equivalents.
The word is Salyut (Салют) it's a russian word, you say it when you greet someone and it also means firework.
How about doing one on the Kowa SIX?
Wow! My associate has one of those. I've been wanting to use it.
Just a side note on this old-ish post... On my Kiev 88 the standard 80mm lens example I have is absolutely tack sharp, BUT I do have to hold the entire thing still, which is all a part of the process with the "tank-factory" cameras.
I just wish I could put that lens on my Bronica ETRSi. Would be a killer combo. Oh well.
+Brian Richman Do you think Kiev 88 is better than Bonica ETRSi ? I´m going to by a medium format system but I´m in doubt with Kiev 88 or bronica ETRSi .
The ETRSi (I have both cameras) is much more refined than the Kiev, which needs wrestling to get results. Literally I have to haul the film advance round, and avoid scraping myself on the sharp edges, but the ETRSi is easy to use on all counts.
The ETRSi is of course, a 645 format (16 frames per roll rectangle) whereas the 88 is 6x6 (12 frames per roll square). I don't know which is better... You'll have to decide for yourself.
I use my 88 to shoot B&W only now as the lens is just not as good for color, but the Arsat 80mm is wonderful for this. The ETRSi is great for everything, but it just does not excel in B&W as the 88 lens does. Color on the 88 is very divergent on the frame edges but the ETRSi is spot on.
The Bronica lenses seem to be 95% of the 88 lens in sharpness and contrast and I can (only just) see the difference, so maybe I am being picky?
Does any of this help?