Can Groceries Be Delivered TOO Quickly?!
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- čas přidán 1. 05. 2024
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Over the past few years, many cities have seen the arrival of services that promise to delivery groceries as quickly as possible. These services offer a level of convenience and laziness that have never been seen before, but they bring with them some problems. Can groceries be delivered TOO quickly?
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References & additional reading
Hotline Cooper Ray // Street Cycling
Terry B [CZcams]
• 🔥 Hotline Cooper Ray |...
Why Is Everything Turning Into Uber?
Second Thought [CZcams]
• Why Is Everything Turn...
15-Minute Grocery Delivery Has Come to N.Y.C. Not Everyone Is Happy.
www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/ny...
DOMINO'S DROPS 30-MINUTE DELIVERY PLEDGE - Chicago Tribune
www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...
The fast and the spurious: super speedy grocery war has hit Holland
www.dutchnews.nl/features/202...
Instant Delivery Startups Test a New Tactic: Slower Delivery - The Information
www.theinformation.com/articl...
Themarapportage maaltijd- en flitsbezorging, Nederlandse Arbeidsinspectie, april 2022
bijlagen.nos.nl/artikel-15577...
Nederlaag voor online supers: personeel moet weekendtoeslag krijgen
nos.nl/artikel/2444570-nederl...
Maaltijdbezorger Deliveroo vertrekt uit Nederland
fd.nl/bedrijfsleven/1448119/m...
Deliveroo unveils plans to pull out of Spain in wake of ‘rider law’
www.theguardian.com/business/...
2021 Gorillas strikes
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Go...
Gorillas Workers Collective (Twitter)
/ gorillasworkers
Ultrafast grocer Gorillas avoids German labor laws by becoming Dutch
nltimes.nl/2022/02/22/ultrafa...
Nieuwe flitsbezorgers geweerd uit gemeente Groningen, ook rem op nieuwe supermarkten
nos.nl/regio/groningen/artike...
Per direct verbod op nieuwe ‘darkstores’ voor flitsbezorging in de stad
www.at5.nl/artikelen/213290/p...
Battle for the residential streets: dark stores vs Amsterdammers
www.dutchnews.nl/features/202...
Amsterdam orders three dark stores to close for breaking zoning plan
www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/04...
Gorillas scraps 10-minute grocery delivery promise and tweaks business model
www.businessinsider.com/goril...
Amsterdam to ban super fast distribution centres from residential areas
www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/05...
This video contains photos and video clips sourced from Getty Images
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Chapters
0:00 Pre-roll
0:07 Introduction
0:45 What is "flash" delivery?
1:28 How do they do it?
2:33 Can't you just walk to buy groceries?
3:28 Who uses it?
4:01 What's the downside?
6:42 VCs and dumb money
8:26 Worker exploitation & tech
10:41 Do we REALLY need this?
11:28 Where we are today & conclusion
12:10 Nebula spot & Patreon Shout-out
![Wolfram Physics Project: Working Session Tuesday, Aug. 4, 2020 [Empirical Physical Metamathematics]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VlqerIL2kl8/mqdefault.jpg)
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Watching this as an American is so crazy, people being able to strike, regulators actually protecting workers.
In Spain, they ended the practice of classifying the workers as "independent contractors" through a High Court decision. The companies tried to fight it, but so far the courts have upheld the decision. If the drivers get their orders through an app, they are workers of that company. That should be the absolute minimum of worker protection.
Has that resulted in any companies closing up shop, so that their workers suddenly aren't workers anymore?
In Denmark Uber left after having been forced to start following the law regarding taxis. If your buisness model relies on not following the law then you shouldn't exist as a company.
@@GreenJimll Only Deliveroo left, as they did in the Netherlands. All the others are still there, about a dozen.
yes please
As it should be. Well done 🇪🇸
I used to work at Dominos as a delivery driver, while I was driving at the speed limit my coworker delivery driver blew past me then I blew past him as the police was writing him a ticket for speeding. I never listen to any employer that tells you to break the law. If you are driving, you are the responsible one.
I agree, but sometimes delivery gigs don't offer a working wage for honest behavior. So I blame both parties in these cases.
Isn't it illegal (in some places) for an employer to tell their employees to break a law?
@@InventorZahran ugly places
I would have said I do not break the law in my own private life, why should I do it for my work? There should never be a argument
But the problem is if employees drive at the speed limits, then their pizzas will get cold and customers gonna complain and likely reject the pizzas.
The idea you can get actual groceries from a convenience store, however limited the selection, sounds awesome. In the US you can only get candy, jerky, beer, soda or lotto stratchers from convenience stores. If you're really lucky, they'll have hot dogs and pizza under a heat lamp.
When I was a teenager I would get those shitty hot dogs at 7-11 all the time. 🌭
Hmmmm, 12 hour old cardboard pizza.....
what kind of convenience stores do you go to??? i (living in massachusetts) have only noticed convince stores like that with chains (7-11, seasons, etc.)
then again i go to supermarkets 99% of the time so i might just have gotten lucky with the convenience stores I do go to
i used to work for one of those companies but it was closed by the local authorities since they arent considered a store. its a delivery service
You can also get groceries from convenience stores here in the Philippines but don't think of buying groceries from them. Products sold in 711 and other convenience stores here are priced up to 20% higher than a supermarket.
This recalls memories of Foodora leaving Canada in 2020 after Ontario ruled its workers were employees. Someone close to me worked for them in another province at that time, and they were forced out of work because of Foodora's withdrawal. The practice of abandoning a market as soon as labour rights are granted is slimy af, and I appreciate that you're calling it out!
*labour rights = collective bargaining rights
We have Foodora in Sweden, and what I've heard from other people who've worked there is that they'd rather not.
It's crazy that we live in a world where 1-hour delivery is too inconvenient
This is my thought as well. On the rare occasions when I’ve used grocery delivery I’ve had no problem scheduling it for much later in order to pay a lower fee.
It is, if you think how people just used to walk and get groceries down the street
It's inconvenient if you happen to live close to a grocery store. If you're in the states, you most likely don't.
There's a valley of usefulness of instant grocery delivery. At some point, you're better off just going to the store yourself or waiting for a next-day or later delivery window. There's plenty of scenarios where same-day delivery is a decent option and in those scenarios, paying a reasonable delivery fee would be fine. Stuff like car/bike broke down, kids are sick, power to freezer got cut and stuff melted, your local grocery didn't have something you needed.
If it's too slow people would just go to the shop themselves. An hour is quite a long time if you've just realised you need something too.
as someone with a physical disability i love having something like gopuff here (seattle WA) but the only times i truly need something that fast is if im acutely ill and in that case its been fantastic. that said i have zero problem paying a lot for delivery fees. id much rather pay that extra amount and have the worker treated well. wonderful video as always and its super interesting seeing it be such a big thing in europe.
Why did you say Europe
I think most people with mobility problems are nearly equally well served with the next day delivery that a lot of supermarkets offer here.
I however am not disabled and live within a 5 minute walk of 3 supermarkets and several other stores.
To me the need for these services seems very limited. How would you fare on next day delivery?
I always have a few things with long shelve life stored in case I get ill.
That's it. It's cool to have convenience options, but these companies push the pipe dreams of offering you more service for the same price as getting it yourself. I don't have a physical disability, so ordering delivery for me is only for indulgence, and when I choose to indulge myself unnecessarily, I should pay for my decision, not the delivery driver.
Folks should pay the actual cost of delivery, then you should get a disability subsidy to help pay for these services.
@@dunbass7149 Focusing on worker exploitation, worker (and public) savety and labor laws.
Never thought I'd ever use these services. But recently, I had surgery and struggled with walking, so having someone deliver medication to me was a HUGE help.
Delivery has it's uses. Even the quick delivery can be useful in odd situations once in a while.
But i don't think the market is big enough to have multiple companies run multiple locations in a city. At least not in places where stores are 5 minutes away anyway.
For sure, the few times I have cursed the system where you order days in advance have also been when I was unexpectedly ill. But usually, I'll still be fine waiting two hours or so, just not three days.
Delivery as part of a business, like pharmacies or restaurants, makes perfectly good sense. "Flash delivery" as a standalone business model is nonsense.
@@Snowshowslow but why do you need different groceries when you are ill?
One thing to mention. Doing delivery on a bike is way more fun than something with a car. You are in open air, doing some exercise and you have more contact.
And you're not in traffic the whole time
True, although that's only really the case in warm, relatively dry climates. I definitely wouldn't want to deliver goods on a bike if it's cold and rainy everyday.
Nah bro, driving is fun
True
@@krystiankowalski7335 nobody denied that. But driving a bicycle is _more_ fun than driving a car 🙂
I was raised in an era (1950's) in the U.S. My grandfather owned and operated a neighborhood grocery store, about 30 steps out the back door of our house. At the time most, if not all neighborhoods had a "Mom and Pop" grocery. We rarely had to visit a "chain" grocery. My gramp's store was almost always busy and was especially more so after the local school let out for the day. The store was jam-packed with teenagers buying sodapop and other bits of junk food. That's another story though. We actually had neighbors who couldn't get out who needed groceries and my brother and I would deliver on our bikes. Not in 10 minutes or less though. Those were simpler times!
I hope that we’re headed back towards having Mom & Pop grocery stores be a common thing!
Yes I remember that as well. The owners kid on his bicycle making deliveries and a neighbourhood store at the end of the block.
Is the store still there or has it been outcompeted by Walmart?
I hear that friends like the fast delivery in case they have company coming over unannounced... One of the things I enjoy about living in the Netherlands is that I (almost) always have 10 minute grocery delivery - my 10-year-old can run to the grocery store in 3 minutes, grab whatever I missed plus whatever he enjoys, pay by bank card and run back to the house :)
I remember aged 10ish running down to the shops for a single lemon (UK)
That was my childhood lol..
And getting fresh bunns on saturday and sunday morning for the family
I'm very glad you included disabilities here, my girlfriend is disabled and chronically ill and needs delivery for just about everything (long-distance relationship until I can move in, so I can't pick up groceries for her just yet), so I definitely see value in same-day delivery.
However I agree, we don't need groceries delivered in minutes, especially from companies that create safety risks because of time pressure, taking up space that could be used for stores for local residents, and exploits their workers.
The only thing i can think of that really needs to be delivered ASAP is basic over the counter medicine, because a sinus infection sucks and often all you need is a symptom reliever and time, and when you are out of medicine its urgent to you to get medicine. (Fortunately even a normal delivery service can probably deliver 1 package of DayQuil/NyQuil pretty quickly)
I’m in a similar position to you but I still don’t see the need for same day delivery. With a bit of planning my partner orders her groceries once a week so she always has enough until her delivery the following week. So it doesn’t really matter if the order takes 2 days to be delivered, which it usually does. There is items that don’t last a week like bread and milk but we can usually get someone to drop them off for her if I’m working away. We would never use any of these companies that exploit their workers. I’d then be complicit in that exploitation and I couldn’t look myself in the mirror.
In saying that, most companies exploit workers to a certain degree but these “robber barons but with an app” are just the worst.
@@jasonreed7522 Within two hours would be a good spot, even for that, I think.
Do most deliveries need to be same-day though? There are much more efficient and much less disruptive grocery delivery services which require a bit of advance planning as a tradeoff. I understand that there are emergencies, but I expect those are the exception.
@@grahamlive I order my groceries simply because it saves me a lot of time. I live in a small village with only a very small grocery store which also isn't open that late, so I would have to go to a city for grocery shopping. With good planning it's really easy indeed.
I always have my groceries delivered on saturdays around lunch time, and on friday evening I make my grocery list for the weekend a week away. So last friday I made the grocery list that'll be delivered upcoming saturday. You can edit your list if you have to add things later (at least with Albert Heijn) up to a day before delivery (so up to friday 12:00 in my case), so if I run out of something during the week I can still order it.
The only downside is that if a product is out of stock, there's no way to tell before your groceries are being delivered and they don't deliver something similar either, so you might be stuck without a key ingredient. Doesn't happen often though.
I am currently (hopefully temporarily) disabled. Regular, 'slow' grocery deliveries are more than good enough. Of course sometimes I want things that I didn't think of a few days earlier and in that case flash deliveries are a nice convenience, one that I certainly wouldn't mind paying a little extra for, but even then an hour or two is fine. And I haven't tried it, but I think Uber Eats and alike already offer those services using normal grocery stores.
I really feel like the startups are all competing on a metric (delivery time) which pretty much no customers care about. Feels like they’re creating a problem just so they can sell themselves as the solution.
Ubereats constantly emails me to use them for the Metro Supermarket. If I need mediocre pizza or sushi at an inflated price I suppose it’s an option. NOT.
@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet almost sounds like a capitalist idea.
Also Deliveroo uses regular supermarkets
I have a disability. These delivery services hugely improved my quality of life and gave me independence that I never had before.
if I may ask, what advantage do they give you that slower delivery (like the kind you order a day or so in advance) doesn't offer?
@@MirrorscapeDC most of my shopping is done in advance through regular online delivery services that deliver next day or so. But sometimes I need something immediately (can be something I forget to order, or something that was out of stock and so it was not delivered, of some product that didn't know I would need).
Usually people would just go out and buy this from the corner store, but for me it can be difficult. In the past I would either ask someone to get it from me (which is ok once or twice but then it gets annoying) or I would just go without that something that I needed.
With instant delivery I don't need to rely on the good will of others, I can be just as independent as any normal person. Might seem like a little thing but for me it's very important.
Did your regular grocery store offer same day delivery?
@@jeffparker1617 no, only next day, and sometimes only after two days.
How much worth has Independence when it is entirely based on the exploitation of hundreds of people
I've used Flink a few times, once when I was ill and a few times where I just ran out of time to grocery shop. I don't need delivery in 10 minutes. I'd be perfectly happy with delivery in 30 minutes or even an hour. But I'm guessing it's more profitable for the company to squeeze as many trips into an hour as possible...
Sidenote, some companies like CoolBlue offer 'optimized delivery', allowing you to choose to receive a package later, but in a more optimized delivery. That way they don't have to deliver all over the place every day, but they can collect packages headed in the same direction. This cuts down massively on emissions. I wish more companies offered that.
Yeah, Coolblue delivery is the best. It's super-convenient and efficient. They also text you 15 minutes before they arrive so that you can be ready. Everything should be like that.
Even the normal slow (1 day later) delivery supermarket services do that. Appie (Albert Hein) actually gives you a cheaper delivery depending on the (size of) the timeslot. (they text when they're on their way...) I used them often after a sports injury... I loved that they (before covid) brought all my heavy groceries up the four flights of stairs in Amsterdam. My heroes.. and those heavy groceries are easy to plan. So a few days or 12 hours in advance is fine for me.
Delivery within 10 minutes is just overkill for anything other than unexpected emergencies. Same day delivery (or next day on late orders) is more than enough.
There was also one that opened shop in Toronto earlier this year - Ninja Delivery. It was near King & Bathurst and marketed as 10 minute delivery convenience store (also with no public entrance). It lasted a few months before it closed down.
Yes, I was going to talk about that but they disappeared so quickly that it wasn't worth it. I actually have video of their shop on Yonge that said "opening soon". The next time I was in Toronto six months later, it was already gone.
I remember seeing ads for this everywhere for a week and then never hearing about it again.
@@NotJustBikes I actually worked at the Ninja on King St from basically the time it opened until it got bought out by Buggy and we all lost our jobs. Fascinating experience and everything you said in this video was spot on.
@@danalan What reason was given for the closing though? Same as here in Europe?
Lol
I'm old enough to remember when grocery shops and butchers had delivery boys with special bikes with big baskets. The deliveries were always after 4pm, that was when the boys finished school and could start work.
11:36 The amount of restraint it must've taken to shoot this "cat's out of the bag" visual and say NOTHING in the script is impressive.
I used to work for gorillas in Germany. They straight-up broke labour and workplace laws constantly. But of course, the decision-makers were cycled out often enough that there was never anyone directly responsible. it was very frustrating to work there
Agreed, I'm still waiting for the sweet spot: same day delivery. I don't need delivery in 10 minutes, I can easily wait a few hours. But having it delivered the same day makes planning a lot easier.
Euhm... "same day" and "planning" don't really go well together, don't you think? You already have the delivery of the stores itself, you can pick the delivery day, the delivery time, why do you need more of those dark stores in the city? Call me old fashioned, but I still do weekly shopping with my 2 year old. It's a trip she always looks forward to.
Amazon Fresh does that. But they deliver using cars, which seems rather backward to me. It's also not particularly cheap.
I think one or half hour could be doable in a tight cities like Amsterdam. If you are student, getting your beer and snacks delivered in pizza-like time is more than enough. And if you are disabled, its much more practical to have one hour delivery in case you forgot to buy an ingredient yesterday for your lunch cooking.
@@annekekramer3835 Yeah, "planning" to me means figuring out when and what you need to buy long enough before so you can properly schedule it. But in most cases you don't really need to plan more than knowing what day to hit the store, which at least in my case is before something I need is about to run out. For that, any time the same day is more than enough.
@@annekekramer3835 Why do you think that "same day" and "planning" don't go well together?
That's how I do all my planning for grocery shopping.
Just before I leave I check what I need and want and then go out and buy it. Doesn't matter if you only buy groceries ones a week or every other day (that's what I do).
Do consider that precisely because of the relatively high density of supermarkets in The Netherlands, the profit margins are already going to be pretty small. And remember, supermarkets rose in the 1960s when they started outcompeting grocers, who had all their goods behind a counter, and would only be able to help one customer at a time. My grandfather used to be a grocer, but ultimately had to sell his business to his neighbor, who had turned his store into a supermarket. The reason is simple: supermarkets can handle more customers per employee, and that's where these flash delivery services are unsustainable. They need more employees per customer than traditional supermarkets, so they will never be able to compete. Maybe for people who are willing to pay extra for convenience and laziness, but in these times of high inflation and looming economic recession, laziness is the first thing to get budgetted out.
That might apply to many delivery services... (the slower ones tends to bundle multiple orders together though, which helps..)
The dream of profit is the same as with uber: Drivers are only planned there in the beginning. They hope to have autonomous Cars (uber) and delivery robots (all the x-Minute delivery Companys) available before the stream of venture capital ends. The dream is to already have a significant market share when the technology allows to earn money in that market. For Tesla it worked out, they burned lots of money while other companys like Ford or Mercedes didn't bother to think about mass production of electric cars they only would lose money with, today they have a real share in a market that was in the hands of others before.
@Zaydan Naufal If you're basing that on that Economics Explained video, that has been thoroughly debunked. It cherry-picked its data and left out important information, like the fact that The Netherlands has the best data on wealth, and other countries mostly measure income, and it doesn't mention standards of living. Even the poorest people here have access to free education, affordable healthcare, good sanitation, a reliable electrical grid, etc.
You only considered the front office in supermarkets vs grocers. And you left out worker efficiency.
The grocer serializes his workflow by helping one customer at a time.
The supermarket parallelizes the work though customers collecting their own groceries. But these stores are designed to increase search time to seduce customers to make extra choices and purchase more. Customers are bottlenecked by the number of cashiers, and while waiting in line they may buy some more products.
Flash delivery needs to optimize for efficiency. So their stock is smaller, its optimized for a shorter picking time, it has no time spend on extra decisions. And they are their own check out via their PDAs, which they do while picking/walking. This way, picking is much faster than customers walking though a store on their own. It makes for a lot of that efficiency.
In terms of cost, you are essentially running a warehouse operation, rather than a store, which can come with cost savings. Supermarkets essentially have both a store and a warehouse. The savings on the store are lost due to software development, etc.
Also not having to go out on your own to the store has some value as well - which you can use to pay for delivery.
In my experience Picnic is about the same price as shopping at Jumbo. Which means in practice, that I buy most products weekly through from Picnic, and additional stuff from whatever other store is closest or I happen to pass by (Jumbo or AH).
The greatest benefit of all is keeping my shopping list in their app, which saves me the search time and annoying back and forth walking in the store...
@@HexerPsy Picnic is one of the organisations that does want not comply to the standard supermarket CAO. 🙄
"Bicycles don't get stuck in traffic." I wish that would be the case in Germany too.
I'm currently working as a Rider for Flink in Hannover, and I have to say it's pretty good here. I have an unlimited contract, with paid vacation, bilateral one-month notice period, get paid 12€ per hour and get to keep 100% of my tips. There is a little bit of pressure, but not so much that it's stressful or makes me put myself in dangerous situations in traffic.
Sounds decent enough (depending on local economy, but if you're happy...) and there are very few jobs without pressure. That's assuming you've got insurance in case something happens.
@@AnotherDuck Hannover is in germany. The social insurance system covers healthcare, accident care, disability care, unemployment and pensions.
It's pretty decent :)
are you employee or still a contractor ? #loophole they still exploiting through loophole
workers should be emloyees - not independent contractors
We arent building roads for them - we are workers without employee benefits - Stigmatized Ex Zomato rider here
@@SmokeyVlogsNo, yeah, I’m a proper employee (Arbeitnehmer). They do still take people from Zenjob and Studitemps for example, but it’s the worker’s choice.
@@smowl2679 dude Germany has the best living standards for people in the whole world ! And the best engineering .
Thank you for mentioning the disability angle. To a lot of people, getting out for groceries can be a genuinely difficult task. I myself can only really do so because I am on sick leave - if I had a full time job, I'd simply not have the energy given where I live. It's immensely helpful for energy management, for actually focusing and getting the important things done in the house, like making food, sorting out bills, etc.
That said, usually when I do get deliveries done, it's a case of ordering the night before
I worked for one of these services about a year ago, we only had 1 location so some trips took 20 minutes to complete as they were on the opposite side of the city. Right before I left the company changed it wages based on how many deliveries were done in 1 hour, but hitting 6 orders in 1 hours is really hard. As you said in the video, mainly students and families ordered.
The heavy orders were not really cared about, 1 order I drove I had 4 bottles of still water in my backpack + some snacks. Most evenings I had back pain from the heavy loads on my back
@Shep Raynham we had no panniers, and only 2 cargo bikes available, which were often in use. They also did not allow everyone to drive the cargo bikes
@Shep Raynham Great, the worker pays for the work tools!
Said every company if you did that.
dont forget the stigma we get for demanding fair pay - the risk at night and riding almost blindly at night at full speeds just to earn something . bs labor exploitation companies they can go to hell - Stigmatized Ex Zomato Rider
Sorry to hear that man. And if you decide to start delivering again (although I think you won't lol), remember to wear an nta helmet like xnito or bern if you're on an ebike, the cpsc helmets are outdated and don't protect people as they should
This video quickly transitioned from grocery delivery to issues with Gig economy companies and I'm here for it! It'd be curious to see the size of legal staff vs engineering staff at companies like Uber. As you stated most of their cost reduction seems to come from abusing workers vs actually innovative technology. I'm sure that would through in the staffing numbers.
it’s always a good day when NJB uploads
It is useful for those who have mobility problems, and I applaud that. That said, I'd rather get on my bike and do my shopping myself. But I can see instances where I can use them, but if had to use them on a regular basis I'd rather use the delivery service from the shop...
First thing that I thought of when I heard the intro. I don't have any mobility issues myself, but I have heard people who need services like these say how happy they are. The intro rubbed me the wrong way because lazyness was mentioned.
That said, I am aware that this is definitely not NJBs intention, and that the point of conention is the speed of delivery with the pressure it puts on workers. Havent even watched past the intro yet to know that.
I think most people with mobility problems are nearly equally well served with the next day delivery that a lot of supermarkets offer here.
@@rogerwilco2 as someone with both mobility issues and a fluctuating cognitive level, I agree. I get my groceries delivered and I make sure to have some stock of non-perishables so that I always have options whenever I mess up with ordering fresh things. I rarely run out of things I really need and if I do, that is usually when I'm not doing well to begin with, so an app I don't use often would be difficult and a person who can figure out my sherades-like conversation skills at those days (like family or a friend), would be a lot more helpful anyway
My initial thought was that it was for people cooking dinner and ran out of something, and a quick call to the market would have what you need at your door in minutes. The other is that grocery delivery really picked up during COVID. My cousin started doing that before COVID when she was home with the babies and didn't want to take them to the store.
As someone who's worked for almost a year each as both a rider and a picker, there's also a very heavy demand after dark for alcohol, cigarettes, and ice cream. Those all answer cravings that people are willing to pay a premium to get filled from the comfort of their homes.
Ice cream to your door probably worth at least twice as much as ice cream you have to leave home to buy, even if the store is just five minutes away.
And remember, this is a country where weed is extremely available. Solving the munchies from stoned students feels like half our business some days.
shoutout to Terry and his absurd riding
Problem is some grocery stores were replaced by flash delivery service. I lost 2 grocery stores near me.
Yikes that’s rough and also shows part of my issue with people saying “let the free market decide”
Sometimes the “free market” is actually just a group with the most money running everyone else out of town and then saying “we’ll I guess your only option is to buy from me now!”
Whaaaat? I didn't know you watch Terry B! I learned how to cycle safely in the US from that guy! He is a gem!
Yeah, Terry B is great. I hope at least a few people click on the embedded link.
10:41 This bag joke needs some attention
Bicycle based delivery - Good
Grocery delivery that reduces burden on less mobile individuals and caretakers - Good
"Flash" delivery - Probably a bridge too far.
Same day bicycle based delivery with delivery time windows would probably be the sweet spot.
I used a halfway kind of delivery service during a trip to Asia. You go to the supermarket and pack the goods yourself, and then you hand it off to the delivery section. This is great for people who walked to the grocery store like I did, and I saw a lot of seniors using it too. Even though I only expected a delivery before dinner, it got to the place I was staying even before I got back. But I think < 10 min delivery by app is unnecessary. The groceries arriving earlier won't make dinner happen any faster.
That's an awesome idea. I've transitioned to taking public transit for a lot of trips. I would love to be able to bike or take the bus to the store, do my shopping, then hand my bags over to delivery to be dropped off while I make my way home
Like Ikea for groceries!
I get that for seniors who can't carry so much (although grocery trolleys do help) but if you're not disabled, why would you need them to carry it for you? Are you shopping for weeks at a time or something?
@@Snowshowslow I don't have a car (just a bike) and if I need something that's too big or heavy for my bike I often wish there was a way to get it delivered bc my other option is to just walk it home or take a bus (which I mostly do ib those cases) but not every city has good bus connections
@@avissilber5694 I don't have a car either, but I do have bike bags. But alright, that sounds like a situation where it's convenient for you to have it transported :)
I’m one of the disabled folks you mentioned who benefits from grocery delivery. But I definitely don’t need it that fast! The same-day services I use are plenty fast enough.
I've used Instacart here in Toronto quite a bit. They're same day, not flash delivery. So the shoppers go to existing grocery/convenience stores. The part I actually like about it is it doesn't seem to be (as?) artificially subsidized. You pay for the convenience. The only downside is the shoppers often drive, but at least they're also carrying multiple deliveries at once.
Yea I’ve used instacart on occasion as well. I think it definitely cuts down slightly on the congestion that grocery stores and their parking lots typically have.
Due to the price I only use it when I really need to but I don’t see anything wrong with it. Of course I should pay extra for the extra labor that’s being used to get me my groceries!
Jason, your shot at 5:42 is such a masterpiece that captures the zen of Amsterdam.
Great video! Solid content as usual. I love the way you are able to us cycling as a lens to analyze all aspects of societal efficiency!
Having been stuck indoors due to recovering from surgery a while ago I can understand how wonderful it is to get your groceries delivered to you whether it's through one of the quick bike delivery companies or through the store delivery services. I also use it for bulky items and the monthly basic buy. Howver I think it's a tend that will give way to more sensible methods of food delivery.
About Nebula: I have it, but I prefer watching videos on CZcams due to the lags on Nebula, so that's something that still needs to be improved
In the UK grocery delivery was pioneered by Ocado, back in the early 2000s, using transit vans, delivering Waitrose food out of big warehouses with clever algorithms to take drivers on the most efficient routes. Then all the other supermarkets got on board (including Waitrose themselves, offering a competing service) delivering out of the actual stores instead. During the pandemic, we started using Amazon Fresh delivery, which does same day (usually within 3-4 hours), which is more than quick enough for what we needed. What I didn't like was that they delivered our groceries in brown paper bags out of the boots of worker's private cars. It felt like a really shoddy way to operate. While the paper bags are probably better for the environment than plastic ones, using private cars over vans is definitely not. In the end we stopped using it because the prices were just quite high compared to even Sainsbury's (which isn't that cheap). We've not really had these super fast services available where I am, but I honestly don't really see the point. If I need something that desperately, I just walk to the convenience store, which is 2 minutes down the road and open from 7am to 11pm, 7 days a week.
I'm curious. What were your objections to your food being delivered via the boots of private cars?
@@ballyhigh11 probably the fact that employees are using their private cars...
@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 yep, massive red flag for worker exploitation
@@firstname405 Never heard of delivery allowance?
@@jay-uo2bi never heard of it covering all costs, nope
I also think those delivery services can have a place! In Germany, a lot of normal grocery stores offer online ordering and delivery but it takes several days. They do them in bunches, not single deliveries like Flink. I ordered a few times from Flink, especially when I was sick and couldn't go grocery shopping myself. But do I need them in 10 minutes or less? No, absolutely not, I felt bad about it, bc I suspected that they need to exploit their workers and laws to be able to do that. I can do to get it within a few hours and wouldn't mind the higher costs too.
There was just an article a day or two ago in The Atlantic talking about some of the financial aspects of these grocery delivery operations, and concluded they are basically all non-viable without the VC money. Worth checking out.
The playful dunk on Terry Barentsen vids is the niche crossover I didn't know I wanted
Terry B is awesome. NYC should be way more bike friendly than it is.
6:25 which is so fine, the point is to have accessible stores on the streets and this accomplishes that perfectly
I Always get excited to see a new videos of NJB
Some Stores in Germany found a neat compromise: You can order your groceries via an app, pay in the app, but you have to pick your order up in the store yourself. The pick up area is close to the entrance and some stores even have a parking spot or two reserved for people that just pick up a order. This makes it a lot faster for the customer since you don´t have to find everything in the store yourself and wait in line to pay, but you are still buying in the same super market that is there anyway.
That I really don't understand.
Sure, during the height of Covid it made sense. But I don't really see the time saving aspect. Grocery shopping, in a store that you know, doesn't take all that long. So I don't see how ordering via phone would be (significantly) faster.
One of Switzerland's supermarket chains (maybe more, I didn't check) offers free next day delivery for free for large orders. Not really feasible for singles to use it for all their shopping, but I'd say from two people upwards it should be doable comfortably with a bit of planning.
I feel like that’s not even really THAT much planning. I can easily make a list of needed groceries for tomorrow by simply looking at what’s in my pantry right now.
Sounds like it has potential for lots of use.
@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet as a single person you won't need enough food to get free delivery. Like the windows between orders would be too long for vegetables and other perishable items
@@LuluTheCorgi but at least you could order the bulk of your groceries and then buy the perishable items yourself.
And if your order isn't expensive enough for free delivery just add some non-perishable stuff that you will need either way. Like pasta, beer, soap and beer.
1:09
Heeeey, they're not stupid, not all of them :))
_Getir_ is the Turkish for "bring / deliver here". _Samokat_ (Самокат) is the Russian for "kick scooter" and literally means "self-roller"... It's cool you pronounced it right 👍
Well, the rest don't seem to make any sense in any language I can think of :))
8:52 "Second Thought", welcome to the reds, comrade.
You're right, 'dumb' money is getting more expensive. I'm sure the market will self correct soon.
Great video.
Downtown Vancouver also had 15 minutes grocery delivery. The company went out of business this summer because the business model doesn't make sense for the reasons you mentioned. Still, the large majority of deliveries within downtown are done by Doordash and Uber happen in less than 10 minutes. This is because the delivery drivers overwhelmingly use e-scooters and e-bikes on bike lane network to make their deliveries.
This was a very interesting look at the pros and cons of "progress". great work!
Great topic, great explanation!
If I were an entrepreneur, I would create a delivery start up that shows up at your door before you've even realized that you need something. ;)
I think Amazon is literally trying to do this.
like a traditional door to door salesman?
@@Robbedem yeah with the exception that you arent allowed to deny whatever the sales man is trying to sell you
As someone with constantly worsening social anxiety, services like these are a lifesaver! I work from home so I don't even have the chance of just stopping by the store on my way home. I'm completely unable to convince myself to leave the house and go to those crowded places without a companion - haven't done anything like that in at least 1 year.
I don't want to be rude or psycho analyse a random CZcams comment or anything, but maybe the fact that you use these and never leave the house actually contributes to your anxiety. They don't help you, they enable you to follow your worst behavior. Try to at least do groceries once a month, after a while I'm sure you won't mind it as much.
@@Arlae_Nova yeah this very much
I have extremely bad anxiety as well and shutting yourself in is pretty much the worst thing you can do
Because at some point you WILL have to leave the house and you will have a panic attack at this point for sure
@@Arlae_Nova oh definitely! Totally agree. It's not really a solution to anything - I'm already on the hunt for another job that isn't remote so I'm forced to be outside and interact with the world and I'm trying to make myself go to the store again. I definitely don't want to live like a shut in for the rest of my life, but yeah I guess these services really are contributing to some pretty big issues that a lot of people have and are quite easy to develop.
By far one of your best videos yet!
8:43 Second Thought mentioned ‼️‼️😤😤
9:57 12€ per hour sounds nice, but fun fact: Germany recently increased minimum wage to... 12€ per hour.
I don't need groceries delivery in 10 or thirty minutes. I usually don't need grocery delivery at all, but I think it is important to have some delivery options, if you don't have a car and are sick, for example. Also I'd be willing to pay as much for softdrink delivery, as the car sharing car usually costs me for a grocery shopping. I unfortunately don't have the room for a bike trailer.
I'd be happy with weekly delivery if I needed it. Like, my canned or frozen food basically won't go bad, and even fresh fruit lasts for the first half of the week, if not the whole thing. :)
Living in Naarden, a small city close to Amsterdam those flashdeliver services are not availeble but with enough stores at walking or cycling distance its not something I miss. Having a great choice of hot pizza’s, burgers and you name what delivered in a hour is amazing enough for me already 😅
It's cool getting to see the videos before they get released publically.
(Just wanted to write something to help with the algorithm).
We don't have flash services in Southern California but I could see it happen. We do have a ton of same-day or scheduled grocery delivery options, and a couple of them are marketed through the grocery chains themselves (plus Amazon).
Also - I may or may not have eaten at that Van 't Spit at 5:43, and I'd recommend it for anyone in/near de Pijp looking for a great dinner.
I had a sprained ankle in summer and couldn't really get groceries, so Flink, Getir and Gorillas were a life saver (yes I could have asked friends, but *convenience* :))
Also Getir is currently in talks with Gorillas to acquire them so maybe there is at least gonna be a aggregation of service providers.
Please do a video on urban forests!
Another great one! Regulators really need to be thinking about how they can disrupt the VC, unrealistically low price loop.
Customers need that way of thinking too.
Lots of criticism on VCs money, very few on the source of their money: central banks subsidized low to negative interest credit. Very easy to blame the market when it only takes advantage of the incentives given to them.
@@somad6997 Still need to educate the majority of the public. I can't see how regulators are going to stay in office if they get rid of "cheap" deals for the people. Democracy only works when the majority are informed voters (and when I say informed I mean given the arguments from both sides)
Thanks for making a video on this topic. After having moved to Amsterdam, I found these delivery drivers to be quite careless, if any.
I don't have a supermarket close (10 min by bike), so I actually order through Picnic. You mentioned at 11:08 that you need to order a few days in advance, but I can most often order the night before. Pretty convenient for me, I must say.
the company exploits its workers - poor guys have to speed to earn bread
those exploiting companies should be banned forever . They keep exploiting workers
This is a good channel. This is a good video.
I love your analysis. Very well done.
Thank you kindly!
Enjoyable video as always. I quite enjoyed the pro Labor commentary here
I think same day delivery can be useful in some cases - for example if there are no nearby stores open on a public holiday or Sunday (like in Vienna), but it really makes no sense to make under 10 mins. delivery your whole business model.
Awww yess that Terry Barentsen callout was gooood! His videos are mesmerizing
Loved the focus on labor this episode.
Right before the pandemic we used Picnic a lot. It's just so much easier with a baby and a toddler to just have the stuff delivered. Then during the pandemic we used a mixture of delivery options, because they were often fully booked for a week at that point. There are no flash deliveries where I live, too rural.
My kids are now 3 and 5 and it's getting much easier to balance housework, jobs and things like groceries, because the kids are much more independent and can entertain themselves better now. So we've gone back to doing groceries like any other Dutch person, every few days we get what we need for a couple of days.
9:09 what is "werkgeversverantwoordelijkheid" ? A word or someone fell onto keyboard... 🤣🤣🤣 . I don't know what that mean.. but it seems serious... 🤣🤣🤣
Employer Responsibility.
@@ianhomerpura8937 thanks. Now I can appreciate the gravity of that word.
(I live in the US) About a decade ago one of the grocery chains in my area started offering delivery. Place your order online and schedule a time, usually at least 6 hours in the future, and for $10 they would deliver your order in a big branded van (they used the same vans to deliver flowers). We made extensive use of that, and often discussed how we could even make use of less service, like if our neighborhood was only served on Tuesdays and Thursdays and we had to schedule around that.
Sadly, that particular chain closed a few years ago, and the others in the area all seem to have partnered with rapid delivery services that charge a higher price on every single item than the price in the store.
I don't mind paying extra for delivery. I do mind paying 30% more for delivery, and I especially mind paying a delivery fee on top of being charged 30% more.
Here in Finland we have Foodora and Wolt. Both do groceries but their main product is restaurant delivery. I don't order from them often, but they are really nice for ordering when i have guests over and I'm either cooking for them or ordering food directly. These services definitely have inflated demand due to cheap VC pricing, but there is also a real place for them at-cost for certain situations.
I think part of the issue in the US is also that Americans rely too much on brand-name foods/processed food products. This reliance forces grocery stores to be larger than necessary which in turn means big centralized stores. Smaller grocers like LIDL and ALDI have some what disrupted this, and gas stations/convivence stores have upped their games in the US, but it still feels like a long way to go. I live in a relatively walkable neighborhood near the downtown of my City, but the grocery stores require crossing major Stroads, and the convivence stores are either crappy or lacking fresh products
I use Amazon Fresh for my groceries. We get to choose a 2 hour delivery window and I'm just happy the food gets here. I don't have the ability to go grocery shopping unless I want that to be basically my entire day.
Here in London we have Getir (which I've always thought was pronounced as "get 'ere"), Zapp and Gorillas. Getir use electric motorbikes here for some reason. And of course we have regular grocery stores delivering using small diesel trucks. The most interesting recent development is Zoom, who are attached to a conventional grocery store but use cargo bikes and offer same-day delivery, pretty much filling that gap mentioned in the video.
Despite all that, the quickest and easiest way to get some groceries is still to walk the 300 metres to my nearest mini grocery store, and if they don't have what I want to walk another 400 metres to a larger grocery store.
I'm glad you highlight your Nebula only content in purple. More Nebula creators need to do something similar so I can tell what is Nebula only and not just duplicate of YT content. Would make it easier to tell how much value there really is in a Nebula account.
Nice Second Thought shout out! You two make great content!
The grocery delivery speedrun community is going crazy on the leaderboards
We have apps like that here in Moscow but they occupy a really small niche in the market since we also have same-day delivery from conventional supermarket chains with access to almost their entire normal inventory with no markup, just a small flat service fee, and depending on how close the store is they can get your order to you in 1-2 hours.
Great topic, Jason. thank you for sharing. These flash delivery services have their place... Yeah, in history, maybe. As a footnote: that didn't work out in the end! No, I'm being too harsh here. It's just like you said, though: in most Dutch cities, we have supermarkets and convenience stores nearby enough that we can get our shopping done in almost as little time as such flash services. All we need to do, is get off our couch, hop on a bike and GET them.
I’m from Amsterdam and because of the whole… you know… I’ve been stuck inside for the last two years. I have my general groceries delivered by picnic a grocery chain without physical stores. But on occasion I’ve forgotten something, need something that minute or didn’t have it delivered by picnic. In that case these types of services help me out a lot.
ugh this is cringe. youtube would not let me change the thank-you comment before posting.
So I'll make do with this edit.
I did not expect a labor union argument in the middle of this video. And I'm glad you point out such flaws, and not just focus on transit and transport.
You really should expand more on what counts as Not Just Bikes. Our capitalistic system is the cause for many of the urban problems we face today.
It is important to pay attention to the cause, and not just the symptoms.
Thanks for the Super Thanks! I appreciate it.
I'm always hesitant to ascribe too much of the reason for bad urbanism to capitalism, because the Netherlands is capitalist, too. The largest political party is a centre-right neo-liberal party (the VVD). It could even be argued that the Netherlands was literally the birthplace of capitalism, with the VOC. If anything, the Netherlands proves that you can have good urbanism _in spite of_ capitalism.
Don't get me wrong; capitalism is the source of a lot of problems in the world. But I don't think I want to "excuse" the bad urbanism of America by writing it off as a product of capitalism.
Love the Terry B reference
0:28 that store is maybe 10 minutes away from where I live and I didn't even know it was one of those fast grocery deliveries. Thanks so much for uploading this one, don't think i'll ever use it unless i'd be stuck at home with corona or something.
Love your content, been a subscriber for a long time now, but was absolutely blown away at 7:21 when an app on a smart phone showed Duddeston, which is a suburb of central Birmingham, where I used to live, (I now live in South Birmingham), Boring to anyone else I know, but of all the places in the World, well anyway, nuff said, you get the point. Keep up the good work old chap!!!!!!
One issue I've discovered with living in a walkable area - I have realized just how lazy I am. I can get to the store in two minutes on a bike, or to a convenience store in 2 minutes walking, and I _still_ never go and eat out all the time -.-
You better do (still) go out, because it's healthier for your body (your body needs your movement) as well as for your money (no longer paying those unnecessary salaries nor fuels; ~ you can just do it yourself).
oh yeah totally, I absolutely love living here without a car, and I'd never, ever, ever go back
You eat out all the time? You must have a well paying job then, I sure can't afford that in The Netherlands!
@@annekekramer3835 well, I'm saving 1000$ a month from not having a car, so it certainly works out :P
I kind of get the impression of being partially misunderstood, because I fully agree with Anneke Kramer that in NL cooking your own meal is much cheaper than buying it a restaurant.
So, when I employed "go out", I wished to only refer to leaving the house, and when I employed "fuels" I wished to just to refer to the fuel used by the deliverers, i.e. not the fuel you avoid by not using a motorized vehicle yourself.
Although I actually like Domino's pizza, I agree with your concerns. My parents are essentially trapped in their house due to health reasons and I do as much of the grocery shopping for them as I can, but there are times the level of exhaustion is just too high and I get asked "anything good on Doordash/Uber/Dominos/GrubHub" or any one of the various eating emporia in the area who do delivery. That's pretty much come to a halt lately because the delivery fees for most literally add up to another entire person's meal, so we resort to throwing together something quick & easy... which leads to my making more trips to the supermarket. (A must-drive situation in this area.) We do have Instacart and Peapod that do deliveries for the grocery stores (heck, even Costco and Amazon do grocery deliveries now)... but then we get back into the realm of delivery fees and convenience fees and driver tips and a whole bunch of other stuff that relegates it to the realm of "when we REALLY need it" and takes it completely out of the "convenience" column. Funny what a business' need to actually make a profit can do to convenience pricing...
When you're chilling a night with the boys this is such a lifesaver
man, every time I see your videos I start to miss the netherlands… time to go there again very soon! good thing I’m not far away; living in luxembourg :)
Thank you for pointing out dumb money, I have been trying to make people aware of this in the United States for years but greedy capitalists feel threatened by knowledgeable consumers
Yea, I don’t know why so many people seem to assume that a company being able to have an IPO immediately validates their business structure.
Of course they feel threatened by people who know capitalists are just out to earn money at other people's expenses.
There are a lot of Deliveroo riders around here (UK). Most are from the recent immigrant community, presumably because they can be exploited more easily. They also generally modify their e-bikes to allow for throttle only riding, which is illegal but I doubt the police bother pulling them over. These are mostly for the restaurant/fast-food business not general groceries, because as you say it's very easy just to pop to a corner store 5-10 minutes walk away.
The police here in the Uk are already busy enough dealing with the M25 being blocked by that 1 BMW driver.
I used to work as a rider for JustEat Takeaway/Lieferando in Germany. It wasn't a bad job to be honest. We got an employment contract and a set hourly wage. There were bonus payments for every delivery plus extra pay for working on public holidays. Altough there was a suggested timeframe in which we had to do the deliveries, it was never enforced or we never got punishment if we didn't make it in time. Also my town had an alright bike infrastructure, which made cycling convenient.
If you have questions, feel free to ask.
I see many people in the comments mentioning 1H delivery times would be fine too, but for multiple reasons that wouldn't make it easier for the flash delivery service. Due to the multiple smaller locations of the company the distance to the customer remains short, this benefits the driver too because they don't have to ride as far with a full bag, and it reduces the cost of delivery relative to the order price. Putting together an order also only takes the company only a few minutes at best. This all just results in a rather quick delivery time.
I live in New York City and I've used these services twice
Once in December 2021 when Omicron was surging in the city, and people on social media were posting about how GoPuff was the only place that had at-home tests in stock, so I ordered some. I was very willing to walk out of my apartment and buy some rather than having them delivered, but every pharmacy in the entire city was out, so that was my only option.
The other time was a month and a half ago, when I did have Covid. I wanted snacks, so I ordered on Getir since I had $15 off as a first time customer. This was totally part of their idea to gain me as a new customer, but I have no other desire for flash delivery when I can just go to the bodega on my corner or grocery store 4 blocks away.