This Train Station Has No Business Being This Good
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- čas přidán 2. 05. 2024
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Historical station photos:
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Serving coffee at Driebergen-Zeist in 1959
• Koffieverkoop station ...
@BicycleDutch
/ @bicycledutch
Bicycle Dutch - A public transport hub in the forest; station Driebergen-Zeist
bicycledutch.wordpress.com/20...
Bicycle Dutch - The reconstructed railway station Driebergen-Zeist
• The reconstructed rail...
@CabviewHolland
/ @cabviewholland
Driebergen-Zeist station before construction
• Station Driebergen - Z...
Cabview Holland - Driving into Driebergen-Zeist by train:
• NEW! Driebergen - Zeis...
Removing the old station:
• Timelapse sloop oude s...
Building the station in 16 days (Timelapse) @prorail
• Timelapse: 16-daagse s...
Pre-project renders
• Animatie Driebergen-Zeist
ProRail - Drie jaar bouwen aan landgoedstation Driebergen-Zeist
• Drie jaar bouwen aan l...
www.stationsinfo.nl/Driebergen...
My first impressions when visiting Driebergen-Zeist:
social.notjustbikes.com/@notj...
Nederlandse vertaling door Casper de With
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:41 Wow, what a nice station
1:03 Context & history
2:22 The before times
3:22 Construction
4:39 The transportation hub
5:13 Bicycle parking
6:10 Station design elements
7:53 Bus station
9:11 Not an urbanists paradise
10:17 De auto's
10:56 A proper cycling underpass
11:51 Park 'n' Ride
12:46 My complaints
14:12 CROSS PLATFORM TRANSFER, BABY!
15:36 The wrap-up
16:07 Learn math, science, and engineering with Brilliant
17:27 Patreon & Nebula shout-out
Visit brilliant.org/notjustbikes to try Brilliant for free. Not Just Bikes viewers also get lifetime 20% off Brilliant Premium.
I specifically asked Brilliant if they would to sponsor my videos because I genuinely wish this existed when I was studying engineering!
I just realised you don't blur out license plates. That's fine here, but if you ever cross the border into Germany make sure to do it, or some local might contact their lawyer asking you to take down the video. It would suck to have a great future video taken down because of it.
Thanks for all the great content btw!
Can you do a video on how awful Lage Zwaluwe train station is?
Other stations on the same line like ede-wageningen are currently beeing renovated. So it may be worth a look. This station actually is in ede though. And the whole area is now full of new housing development.
I had to say that Utrecht has less people travelling in a train than a tear three( city with less than 100,000) City in India. Which is crazy because the Netherlands has a higher population density than India . Like ngp station which is in Siliguri a tear three City of West Bengal has a annual footfall of around 100,000,000 people per year which means almost 280 thousand people daily. which is more than the annual footfall of Utrecht which is 88,000,000 people per year. and our major stations like howrah and siyalda has which has annual footfall of almost 370 million people means more than 1 Millions of people use that train station daily.
Lies! You claim at first that you thought of taking a car, but you have been living here for 5 years now. Without a car. You have a youtube and nebula channel in which you make video's about everything but cars. You have learned the rather sensitive concepts of kruidnoten and regenboogpieten. You have come to drive your bicycle through the red lights in the red light district. And you have been all over the country by train, subway, tram, bus or bicycle. I bet your first thought was to check if there was a nearby train station and you were amazed it was within walking distance. And then you thought of making a video, and going with the Canadian car centric approach. Because it was more fun that way. And i applaud you for the excellent video. As a dutchman living in a very similar town, with a train station that is just as good as this one, i tend to take it for granted and share little thought about how amazing it is when i pass under it on my daily cycling commute. But when i want to go places, i check for trains first too. Because, why bother with cars if this is the standard of living afforded to the Dutch?😉
New York was originally called “New Amsterdam.” If only the Dutch had won, Americans could have this now!
I don’t know about that.( I meant the public transport part)
Why they changed it I can't say, people just liked it better that way!
funny seeing a true internet legend casually show up here talking about trains
@@NesMeme You'll be surprised to know that some of the NY neighbourhoods are still named after Dutch cities (Harlem and Haarlem).
@@wesb2410no, I meant the public transport. Not the fact that ny was originally a Dutch colony.
As one of the architects who designed the station (team Arcadis Architecture NL), many thanks @notjustbikes for your analysis and video of this station. You are interested in Urbanism, but also notice details like the old-new platform canopy detail and the light bike-parking. Yea, I'll excuse the glare of the glass ;). You analyze the problem and solution very accurately and notice many details we've laboured long on to incorporate. Even the temporary station that also took serious effort to design was mentioned! Thanks and I'll definitly look into your channel, it seems like a great way to scratch my urbanism itch now and then ;).
As a citizen who grew up in the area and who whitnessed the horror old train crossing, I would like to thank every architect, constructor and builder from the bottom of my heart! When I was a kid, I frequently asked myself why this crossing was not improved upon. Luckily, you guys took the challenge and made me a very proud Dutch citizen again. The train stations in the Netherlands have been improved upon a lot in the past decade. Impressive to see, but I'm especially proud to see that "my home station" is the most improved one.
I don't live in Holland but I already love you, sir, for this delight of a station you helped design. The saddest thing about this channel is that we keep wishing the whole world was as thoughtful as you guys. I'm Brazilian, I've lived in rural Italy and am currently living in Lisbon, and I cry a little at very video, wishing for things I can't have. Ah well.
Those stairs though...
Tom, as a regular passenger here who is used to good 'ov', I agree that Zeist is a marvel. Cycling is ridiculously improved here, too, and I love passing this place.
Seeing as you are an architect who designs train stations, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Southern Cross train station in Melbourne, Australia. It was rebuilt just under 20 years ago and at the time was considered an architectural marvel due to its wavy roof. However, it's not loved by passengers as much as by architects. In usability terms, there are many areas they got wrong.
As a Japanese person, I am genuinely impressed. It's hard for less populated regions in Japan to be doing anything other than slowly withering away, so most of Japan's highlights of public transportation are in the more densely populated areas. The mix of nature, people, and trains in Driebergen-Zeist was eye candy, thank you for the video!
The thing is with The Netherlands, it is all really close by
The Netherlands is not impervious for this either though. Being small helps a lot, but Driebergen-Zeist works because it along one of the major non-Randstad railroad axis towards major cities Arnhem - Nijmegen in the East. And even still, Driebergen-Zeist is the city bordering the Randstad on the East. Especially in the South-west (Zeeland) and North-East (Friesland, Groningen, Drenthe, Overijssel) railroad-service is considerably more sparse, and communities are dwindling somewhat.
Its funny, as a dutch person the japanese public transport looks so nice and well organised. I feel like the practical and business oriented sides of both our cultures really connect on that area. I wouldn‘t be surprised if our past trade relations influenced that
The only less populated region in Netherlands is not where this station is. It's North and North East of the interior lakes. The rest of the country is entirely occupied by housing or developed farming
This isn't exactly a less populated or remote part. Yes these were two smaller towns, yet 85K people still generates a reasonable number of commuters. This is barely outside Utretcht (less than 10Km), it's less than 20Km from Hilversum which has notable large companies, and just over 30Km from Amsterdam (40min on the train). So these are effectively commuter "towns", more like neighbourhoods, and this is literally urban sprawl. Still, for what it is in terms of urbanism, the transport offer, the mobility planning and the design are excellent and an example that's it's possible to have good things even with challenging sprawl.
Just a heads up as a Civil Engineer working for a construction company that works on Rail a lot (Strukton): These plannings where you have to do a ridiculous amount in a ridiculous sparse amount of time are par for the course in Rail construction in the Netherlands. ProRail has a contract with NS where the rail is only allowed to be offline for a (very) limited amount of time per year. Dutch Rail construction is one of the most efficient, most time constraint and often most innovative construction possible. I love it.
Groetjes van Traffic Support, how is Ede Wageningen going?
@@TregMediaHDHet ziet er al aardig goed uit :)
Please bring your railroad building companies to North America!
Love having your guys in the hotel I work at!
As a user of public transit in Copenhagen, I suffer from rail leadership doing the exact opposite: Using construction authorization laws to inflict years of traffic chaos onto the entire population . Cars, busses, trains and even bicycle and walking traffic is maximally disrupted for many years to build projects that could and should be done with much less disruption . I recall with disappointment that our huge train bridge projects (Great Belt and Öresund) both shut down the busy ferry service _before_ opening the parallel bridge, for no reason at all .
I'm a Dutch architectural engineer and remember having visited this place during the renovation as an educational trip. BAM, the contractor company that got hired to tackle the project, shared some insights into the planning of the project.
The hardest part was closing the station for as little time as possible, so they came up with the idea of preparing the train platforms as one solid piece. Which was unfeasible, so they constructed a system where they were slowly building parts of the platforms every day, and slowly wedged the finished part into its place. Whenever a bit of the platform was settled, they would start connecting other construction parts that would slide along, but would not be able to be connected and finished till it was completely done.
The entire project took engineers over a decade, and the company had to build a temporary office next to it, where the engineers just worked from during its duration, being able to overlook their brainchild. The contractor company also came up with other new building techniques during this project, which they still apply in ongoing projects.
Worked a lot with Dutch engineers in offshore, lots of respect for the excellent planning and ingenuity.
It’s interesting to know why these projects cost so much 👍
I use this line a lot and remember that temp office. Didn't have to exit the train here, so I didn't bear witness to the construction, but that is real interesting
Would you suggest that 10 years of planning and the high cost is a better deal than getting it open earlier, and cheaper, but having to close the station to trains for longer?
I watched in awe how they transformed the station of Rotterdam Centraal; building a complete new station while keeping the old one open at the same time was nothing short of brilliant.
Man, the social safety aspect deserves its own video. So important, and I was surprised (though I guess I shouldn't be) that the Dutch were way ahead of us in this area, too.
Dutch people are so nice too
@@JokeswithMitochondria hey bro i got curious by ur name so decided to check out your channel. Your channel is a hidden gem haha
@@tomhappening thanks for pointing it out lol. Made my day just a bit better. We need more of these non bs channels
i like trains
@@tomhappeningthanks for pointing that out. I decided to subscribe to them.
This really just solidifies that there's no excuse for miserably bad public transit in my city of 1 million people. Absolutely incredible video
American structural engineer here. Love this! The exposed structure of the train station is really elegant. My great-grandparents are from the Netherlands. So refreshing to see good urban infrastructure. I’d definitely like this to be in the US too. Wish my taxes actually went towards infrastructure like this in the US…
Yeah, instead your taxes go to Bobby Kotick...
@@Wiimeiserand trump and elin and bezos 😂, trickle down economy they say 😂
You and me both.
They were correct about labeling it “trickle down economics”. The emphasized part should have been how slow good change comes, if at all.
Well not really much at all as the trickle is a lot slower than the movement of most glaciers are .. Even though they seem to be moving pretty quickly these days by melting..
I have quite a bit of knowledge about this station since my sister in law was part of the project on the municipal side. There are good reasons why there is little development on and around the station. They can be summarized as follows: 1. it is surrounded by naturally and historically significant areas that are to be preserved. 2. it is meant to connect the regional populations to the larger cities on the Rhijnspoorweg, not to invite city dwellers to work in the rurality. 3. The renovation was started not to make the train station better per se, but to alleviate the area's position as a chokepoint for intercity trains that got stuck behind sprinters as well as for car traffic moving to and from the highway and between the more rural localities.
1.
To begin with, the station is situated at the northern edge of an estate (de Reehorst) comprised of two older historical estates. Both situated along the culturally and historically significant "Stichtse Lustwarande". A "line" of estates where the old nobility and higher middle class would have their outside-the-city homes, many of which have been granted to hospitals, typhoid recovery places, elderly care and asylums for the mentally infirm and others have now become educational or office locations. This makes the south side of the tracks already unfit for large scale development in order to keep the rural/natural character and historical value, while it already has a unique distinct market position on the business use market. On the north and eastern side, most of the land is part of the national forests of the Utrechtse Heuvelrug and thus count as protected nature, including most of the Landgoed Heidestein (another estate). In the westward direction, it runs into more historical estates; Rijnwijck and Wulperhorst. There really isn't much development possible that wouldn't take big chunks of historically, culturally and ecologically significant areas. The area as it is now also separates the local identities of Zeist and Driebergen, a character that the local population is not keen to do damage by connecting the two towns with a "city center". This also distinguishes it from something like Kampen zuid, where the development of the area was already slated to happen as part of a natural expansion of the town. There is of course some development planned, but it won't take the shape of a massive-as-possible urbanized area.
2.
The station is mostly meant to service a regional population to go into the city of Utrecht and further into the Randstad or to any of the towns on the Rhijnspoorweg between Utrecht and Arnhem. Given the cost and hassle of using cars to enter big cities, the station is already well-used by commuters. Insofar people from the cities come to this station, they usually come for the natural environment; to walk or cycle in the forests. Therefore, putting the forests further out would be counter-productive. Also, don't underestimate how many rural population the station serves. People come from all the way in Wijk bij Duurstede. It is indeed a true regional hub already.
3.
The renovations where started because of the imminent need to alleviate 2 traffic choke points: The rail traffic one where intercities between Arnhem and Utrecht would routinely get stuck behind the sprinters. And the road traffic one where the N225 connection to the A12 highway was strongly congested in part due to the crossing you mentioned in the first part of the video, causing "sluipverkeer" throughout the smaller roads and neighborhoods causing safety issues. This meant that the budget for the renovation far exceeds what would normally be available since many different budgets could be drawn from, municipal, railway, provincial and national (through Rijkswaterstaat). In a sense, the greatness of this renovation follow from the multimodal issues that preceded it. Don't be discouraged though, the solution is well-documented and we will see the lessons learned return in the designs of new stations and renovations of existing ones for decades!
Great addition.
I fully agree that with this particular station it would be a huge waste to develop the area around it. I also agree that if there is any development to be done anywhere in the country it must be around transport hubs, but not at this particular location. Neither around a station like for example Overveen or Hollandse Rading. Those little forest stations ought to remain tranquil and green as they serve an important service of providing a green escape to many urbanites.
So true. I wanted to comment about the preserved nature around it, but your comment contains so much more detail than I could’ve provided 🙂
This comment needs to be pinned. It's really great insight into the design of the station.
Great and valuable addition!
Watching this I realised how spoiled I am as a Dutch person. I visit this station only sporadically, and the first time I visited since the revamp I was like "hmm, is it me or did they revamp the station, 'cause it looks better than last year", and carried on with my day like nothing happened.
First time and only time I was ever there it was because I had failed to switch in Utrecht and had to get back ... Not the most pleasant experience, but now I know that I could've taken a walk in the forest while I waited !
I get you though... when you live in The Netherlands every day and grew up there like I did too, it's all just normal. It's only when you spend time abroad, or live abroad like I did, that you see everything with different eyes coming back.
@@D__03I am envious of you. I'm an American, so I had the opposite experience. Going abroad makes me so frustrated and depressed when I return home. Where I live is pretty much the exact opposite of this video in every way.
@@D__03 I understand that. I never go abroad apart from the sporadic holiday, and these stories are not motivating me to change that. 😆
@@nomadben Move to the Netherlands then. Our countryside is not by far as beautiful as some places in the new world, but apart from that living here is quite nice.
Even as someone who isn't knowledgeable in the subject, I can immediately feel how safe and inviting this space is. It's not so clean and high-tech that it feels sterile, rather its homey and almost alluring. A space that you don't mind wandering to even if just for a walk and no other reason. Would be great to see more of this in future infrastructure everywhere in general.
Homey enough but still not a place to loiter. Few benches, few corners to hang out in, places to sit are well exposed so homeless or teenagers wouldn’t appropriate the space. These are the biggest factors that make a train station feel safe
@@swegatron2859I agree. And it’s still a bit boring and cold, the style of it isn’t to my taste. BUT I can 100% appreciate the design. Maybe with a couple more buildings nearby with apartments and shops, it’ll be a little busier and more welcoming
I think you can attribute that to all the curved design-feats here, as he mentioned the curved railroad-bridge instead of the old, brutalist flat surfaces & angles. Also being lowered in the ground creates a bit of a cozy, more natural space
@@swegatron2859 And yet there are still benches and sheltered areas, and the benches aren't designed to be painful to sit on or lie across. It's social engineering for a transitory space, not a loitering space, without being hostile and making everyone's lives worse.
I was part of the projectteam of ProRail and am still very proud of the train station and bus station we build! Thanks for the great video.
Great job. I moved to the very south of The Netherlands and though I love it here, I miss the well-planed public infrastructure like this, very most people really need a car here to reach work in a reasonable time.
Thank you! It was a great project to work on, we were almost sorry it was finished. @@paulbeaucuse2092
@@paulbeaucuse2092 on the ZEEland side or? Its something im used to because i was born and raised there. Its the reason you saw alot more scooters here. Probly a bit less but not much now with the "new" rules that you need to do both a theory and practical exam.
Kudos to you. It is amazing
Een collega 🙂
Love the appreciation the classic Dutch tradition of "Not caring about where you can and cannot park your bike" gets.
Almost everybody cares. It's just that so many people have a bike. There's bound to be a couple rule breakers.
@@SimonPetrikovy In addition, sometimes there are so many bikes that you have no other choice...
a sign with "dont park your bike here" is foremost a solid steel pipe to lock your bike safely.
You do take a risk though. Those bikes _do_ get cleared, at unpredictable moments.
@@Jonathan-kraai usually in the perfect place for a run in and go stop too!!
I've watched this 17 times and I can say, this is definitely a certified not just bikes classic
Also I'd like to know how to move to the Netherlands.
Lies and Deception
@@ideallyjekyl5200 Tunnel
@@ideallyjekyl5200 We're not a paradise & have our own problems.
But if you're an USAian, you could look into DAFT. Yes, i know it's a rather daft name for a treaty.
Depending on your qualifications you could also try to get a job, lots of companies are hiring.
If you have Irish or Italian heritage, you could try to get their passport & because of the EU, you then have the right to live & work in the Netherlands.
All of these come with their own specifications, rules & regulations.
Oh & be prepared to be let down. The weather is often considered awful, grey, windy & wet.
A 17 minute video 17 times in 2 hours! Broke time barriers!
"There are J, J bus platforms" Had me laughing uncontrollably
Crying here in the UK as our government cancels high speed rail projects, plans for ULEZ zones, Low traffic neighbourhoods and 20mph urban speed restrictions. All because they held on to a seat in a by-election and are scared of the motorist lobby
As somebody who uses this train station on a weekly basis it is very gratifying to see a huge CZcams channel like this dedicate an entire video to it!
Yeah I kept looking for myself in the crowds lol
This channel made me love Armsterdam!
Can you tell me if the people in the Netherlands know how good they have it with bicycle infrastructure compared to the world?
@@hahafalseflag5090 I'll be honest with ya.
When I was around 8yo, and even now, I thought that all countries had these bike lanes...
@@Baguettej this doesn't exist in the usa
I think a lot of Dutch people, (like me) like this channel because sometimes it takes someone from the outside to make you see what's in front of you the whole time. This channel shows me parts of the Netherlands I either never visited, or just never paid much attention to when I did. Not Just Bikes turns my everyday experience into a 'tourist destination ' ;)
i'm always worried it might make people want to move here, and we really can't use even more people getting houses over here
@@wezza668it's what is going to happen, especially now that the US is tanking economically in regards for household savings. If people want to leave, it's now or never, and videos like these, although especially educational, are beacons of light for disenfranchised people (be they American or not)
It's easier for people to move somewhere new than to try to change their own living places, or at least it's their mentality. The silver lining is maybe you can educate them not to being their own problems with them to slowly infest you back with car dependency
@@wezza668 Yes I know what you mean, but I think that's minimal. Entering a E.U country isn't that easy And I doubt many people will go to a foreign country with a different language and a lot of E.U visa regulations based on videos about nice infrastructure. Most go the Britain for the language or Italy , France etc for the beauty.
@@wezza668young, working people immigrating is the best solution for dealing with an aging population. There is plenty of space in the Netherlands for a million more people, we just need more housing.
@@NotFlappy12Only 1 million? We only use 13% of the land area in the Netherlands for housing. Over 50% is used for cows, but we have all seen how these cows are able to hold the rest of the country hostage. 😊
Another thing that is great about this station: the NS has a number of hikes on their website where you can walk from one train station to another. They are called an “NS Wandeling”.
There is one that starts at Driebergen-Zeist and goes to the next station (Maarn). You walk through a beautiful piece of forest, it takes about three hours (15 km). Walked it a few weeks ago and I can recommend it!
NS doesn’t need to offer these hiking routes, but they do. And that’s something deserving of a shout-out!
Something we're seeing increasingly in the UK is train companies supporting Community Rail groups mapping out similar walks between two stations. Some are obviously more scenic than others, but getting the local community to map out routes on footpaths, cycle tracks, bridle paths, etc means there is local knowledge put into the chosen routes (eg the better, less muddy path or which pub is nicer to stop off at for a drink).
My "adopted" station (Stratford-upon-Avon Parkway) for example is near the old canal, so there's a pleasant walking route both into the town centre and also out to the village of Wilmcote, which is also has a station (and the major tourist attraction of Mary Arden's Farm, part of the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust's properties). My "local knowledge" top tip is to take the train to Wilmcote and then walk back to Parkway station, because that way you get to walk *down* the Wilmcote Flight of locks on the canal, rather than up it!
In case anyone from the UK (or visiting the UK) reads this, I should probably also do a quick shout out to the Slow Ways movement in the UK. They're mapping "slow" walking routes between towns to form a national walking network. Check out the routes at beta.slowways.org/Allroutes
@@GreenJimllah this is so good to know! My local station is on the Stratford-upon-Avon line too (I usually travel in the direction of Moor St). Nice to meet a neighbour in the comments:)
Great video. I'm a Canadian who has been living in the Netherlands for the last 30 years. I still thoroughly enjoy the great infrastructure, especially for biking. I don't think I would want to live anywhere else because of this. One additional thing. The NS publishes great hiking routes that start at the Driebergen-Zeist station so that you can come by train, hike, and then go back by train.
The NS hike from this station is also great! And within 3 minutes walking you're in a forest. Like WTF....
I've watched this J times to pay homage to the abundant infrastructure.
I wish I could like this comment J times but unfortunately youtube only allows 1 like
I watched it "I" times, but there is no "I" in Driebergen-Zeist
@@osasunaitor Missed opportunity to say " youtube only allows A like"
@@jaumegenaro7673 goddamn you are right, not even in Z years I would have thought of that
It's nice to see how hospitable such a small train station is. There's so many places to sit down and relax.
It's really really comfortable. Honestly, I can't believe that a little two-platform small city train station could be this good.
I recently went to Italy by train and I was shocked by how few places there were to sit. I didn't see a single bench at Florence or Milan. If you have to wait an hour or two for a train that's terribly annoying, also considering I sadly can't stand too long anymore because of my health.
@@NotJustBikes i am lucky enough to live in Zeist and use this station daily. just the way how i can park my bike and go upstairs to my train is still amazing
@@DanAndHoe Unfortunately, Italy isn't bench-friendly any more. But some of us are making an effort to get it better.
Fun fact: a lot of stations in the Netherlands have "living rooms". Warmed areas with lots of chairs and tables for you to hang out. They generally have a kiosk but you don't need to pay to just hang out there. There are lots of older people that go to the one near my house just to read the newspaper and chat with travelers. It's such a lovely place if you have missed your train and it's cold outside.
Mobility planner in Lyon, France here. As usual, great video. However, maybe the lack of buildings around the station is on purpose. Construction is the 3rd biggest emmissions sector in Europe so new builds should be avoided unless absolutely nécessary. On top of that, thé station is historical, and the wooded areas seem To have been there for a long time, so its likely they have ecosystems that need to be preserved. I love that they didnt cut down the natural areas To build more stuff just because theres a train station into it...urban sprawl is one of the major causes at the source of climate change
With your keen eye on detail, you make this station seem like the best in the world. To me, this was already the case before the reconstruction as my grandpa always took me here to watch trains. This must have been the holy place that inspired me to become a train driver many years later. I hated to see it being demolished, but indeed it is a huge improvement and I am so happy to see the original canopy has returned :-)
As a Dutchmen I think the area around the station DZ is probably dedicated nature. Not all stations need to have a build-up area around it. Even if it would be convenient.
Ok but a car dealership is not good use of the land next to a train station. Could be a good place for a regional office of some kind
The surrounding area looks like a big nature reserve yes. But near the station, perhaps that or the zoning is not for housing. If it is land with certain pollution levels, then they cannot be used for agricultural or residential use. Maybe they can be used for flats without gardens or industrial use.
The area around it has a lot of low density development, which has the same impact on the natural environment as high density development, but with less human benefit.
Keep the forest and parks, build the human things bigger and better.
I think you're partly right. Mind you, I'm not involved in this project or with the municipality but I did assist with some unaffiliated projects in the area (the national military museum close by being the biggest). There were so many hoops to jump through when it came to environmental factors, getting permits for buildings etc that it was barely doable for this huge team of experienced project-people including the ministry, the contractor, etc. The soil, the plants, the animals, they're all deservedly well protected as they're a unique eco-system. So, for your averae project developer just buying land and plonking a building there... it will not be easy.
The car dealership, houses, petrol station and restaurant have probably all been there in some shape or form for almost 100 years. It’s amazing that the business park is there, considering the status of the surrounding area.
I live in Detroit Michigan and I have to say that this video makes me want to go visit a small train station in a forest in the Netherlands! Full disclosure, when my family landed in the Netherlands in 1958 after traveling from Indonesia (the former Dutch East Indies) our first stop was a tiny vacation rental house in Driebergen that was appropriated for us by the Dutch Government. I was only 2 and don't recall any of that but I do have some lovely old pictures of that time. The Driebergen-Zeist train station gives me another reason to visit the area if I ever have the opportunity to go back to the Netherlands. Thanks for another great video!
Detroit L☠️
Whatcha talkin' about?? We got the Q Line, baby! That's just as good! freakin lol
Also from the Detroit area, and love these videos. I try to envision something like this in Detroit. It will never materialize with our leadership, but it's nice to think about.
@@dannyd8625 if there is any place in the US that needs this sort of approach to urban planning, it's Detroit. It could potentially give the city a new renaissance....
Finished watching the video after already having commented... of course there are more people from the Detroit area in the comments.
Hi Jason, I'm a 72 yr old and a major admirer of your work. I am very familiar with the Netherlands having lived in Amsterdam during the 1970s. Where I got around on a bicycle, tram and bus -never considered owning a car, I was born and brought up in ''old London" and like you have lived and worked in major cities in many countries- including mainland China . When i came back to the States in 2015 from 8 years in China. i had gotten used to Chinese cities filled with people up until midnight and beyond - I returned to Seattle and it was ghostly at night except for a few scattered neighborhoods. Seattle's Metro bus system ( considered one of the better systems in N.America), is based on the familiar 'Spoke and Wheel Approach,' is great during Mon-Fri commuting - However, during off peak hours, its a whole different story - in some cases 20-30 minute waits. Its even worse in suburbia. I now own a small 18 year old pick up truck. But, I hate having to drive 2 miles from my small apartment to buy basic supplies - On some days i ride my bike to the supermarket - having nearly been nearly hit by 'idiots in monster trucks,' and odd stares, while I continue to lock my bike up next to steel gate at the market. no bike racks and like many shopping areas the parking lot is twice the size of the supermarket . i continue to ride my bike in protest to the ugly pick up truck and SUV mentality that now exits on N.American roads . . Its odd to me how North Americans see biking as a recreational sport - It seem to this "old Geezer. " To ride a bike in may North American cities - The bike as to cost over $3K- Then you have to have spend another few hundred bucks on the right clothing- a bike rack for your SUV and so on . When I watch your Amsterdam videos - They bring back fond memories . I plan to visit Amsterdam next year - and you never know I might once again fall in love with a city that cares a lot more about people than cars - and it would nice to never go back to N. America and its 1950s car centric society.
Welcome to come back here in A'dam!
I know, I also biked in the U.S. to the grocery store on the edge of the town, (this was in Carrboro, NC, which is quite biker friendly). It felt so unsafe, there was no decent spot to cross the roads near the store and I felt like a freak (a poor freak who can't afford a car). That really made me reapriciate Holland! So I moved back.
@@evelinebraak2972 Netherlands is the whole country name but holland is a region.
This comment is the exact example of how N. America failed people.
They pulled off the downtime build in 16 days!? Woah. I'm no engineer, but watching that time-lapse was inspiring. It's amazing what humanity can achieve when we all work together as a team. This station is better than anything you'll find here in the UK too haha.
I love that old footage of the station! In the UK, train fans used to have the derogatory name of "anoraks" due to them often standing out in all weather wearing raincoats to record trains as they went by. But without them, and their diligent work, we wouldn't have the archive footage we have now! I have to say thank you to all of you, and I hope more people become train fans and record more of this sort of thing in the future!
Why does the British public hate train and bike fans?
@@user-op8fg3ny3j All Anglo Countries seem to hate public transit, walking and biking, relative to people in continental Europe and East Asia. The US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand all have worse Bike, ped and transit relative to their enormous GDP per capita. I think culturally, Anglos have a greater emphasis on the aesthetic of Independence and self sufficiency. the preference for Single Family homes over apartments and group housing arrangements is in the same vein I think. The US is the most extreme version of this, but all the other Anglophone countries have elements of this.
@@user-op8fg3ny3j There's also the Train Operating Companies to consider, many of whom are owned by foreign railway companies, who a lot of Britons view as scalping them with exorbitant prices, to subsidise the services of their own national passenger trains; add in the cheapness of discount airlines like RyanAir and its' kin- an example given was that traveling from Bristol to Newcastle cost 74 Pounds by train, while a budget flight via Dublin cost 14 Pounds.
Some part of the UK do trains better than other parts. SW England, SE Devon, getting a train to work was never a problem with the station being a very short walk from the town centre.
Wales though!... Old mining town, rail runs right through the centre and is no longer used, as it would disrupt the car traffic. So the station is two miles from the centre on the outskirts and not even a regular service.
On the numerous times i,ve cycled for miles near rail, i've seen three moving trains in four years...
Wales is much more car centric than England. Wales also has the UKs fattest town.
@@user-op8fg3ny3jBritish people don't hate trains, they actually like them and want them to be better
I've lived in Zeist in 2017 and I'm glad you didn't go then. It was one of the ugliest train stations I knew, the underground tunnel was so nasty. They really did an amazing job fixing it up. I remember going back when it was finished and being just as shocked as you are. Another station that is currently going through a same type of epic transformation is Ede-Wageningen, which is only 2 stops further.
I was going to say how surprised I was that this was the station he was talking about, but I hadn't been there since before COVID times and hadn't seen what it looked like after the renovation.
It cannot be worse than some of the places in the NYC subway.
Here's hoping they tackle Veenendaal-De Klomp next, because as somebody who had to go through that station on a daily basis for three years in my previous job, I can say that it was only marginally better than Driebergen-Zeist before that station's renovation, and now it's comfortably the worst station on the Arnhem-Utrecht line.
Groningen too, although it takes 7 god damn years
@@frisianmouve Oh, that's child's play. The rebuild of Arnhem Centraal took from 1989 (initial designs) to 2015 (completion), and six contractors went bankrupt on the station hall roof, the structural steel of which was eventually made by a shipbuilding company, because nobody else dared take the risk on it anymore.
As an Arnhem resident I love it, and it definitely has become a beautiful and very capacious station, but it's not been the smoothest of rides to get here.
NJB, you are doing important work. People in North America are (gradually) learning. Please don't stop doing what you do.
One thing that should be added about this station, the old re-used pillars, which were a big hassle to keep in the modern setup, due to them being very old and not the best quality, actually have World War 2 bullet holes in them. The story goes the germans shot at a plane that flew over the station one time.
So if you are standing there, waiting for your train, you can take a minute and spot the bullet holes, which I think is pretty kool! (small hint, they are on the side heading towards Utrecht)
8:14 this really struck home with me. I live near the Interurban Trail in Seattle, and while it's excellent bike infrastructure by NA standards, a lot of it is just going past the backs of businesses and often without a paved connection to them - you have to cut through dirt paths next to dumpsters to get to the parking lot and the main entrance.
Yes, absolutely. This really amazed me, because I have been to so many US and Canadian business parks where I was left having to cross through parking lots, or even ditches, just to get from transit to the building.
I talked about this in my video about business parks: czcams.com/video/SDXB0CY2tSQ/video.html
Also the garbage land use around the new (and insanely expensive) Mississauga BRT: czcams.com/video/MnyeRlMsTgI/video.html
While this is leagues better than what you'll see in NA, it seems like they could do a better job balancing space dedicated to car vs bicycle parking. A quick snoop on google maps shows ~50 car parking spaces and no dedicated bicycle parking.
www.google.com/maps/@52.0662862,5.2584903,3a,75y,182.85h,86.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNqJwMJ16RpT07SZ49ATOdw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Fun fact: one of the reasons they kept parts of the old station canopy was because they found bullet holes from an air raid that took place at the station during the second World War, and they wanted to preserve this aspect of the station's history.
It’s the same at Gouda by the way.
@@_irdc that the trainstation in Gouda has holes is kind of fitting.😂
@@blub5117 LOL
Rotterdam city hall also still has bullet holes from WW2 in its facade.
I live in Australia and have been for 50 years. My parents used to live in Doorn, about 5 km east of Driebergen. So as a young man I used that railway station on a regular basis from the mid sixties to the early seventies.
Many thanks for this video. The place truly looks fantastic. Brought about good memories. It’s a gorgeous district.
Besides the infrastructure itself, the most impressive thing about Dutch projects has to be the construction time. I've seen these timelapses on CZcams my whole life, and it's amazing each time. Meanwhile it took my city in the US about 2 years to build a single glorified tram platform in a busy area.
Those 24/7 projects are generally reserved for the critical part of these kind of infrastructure projects, that involve closing down the railroads / highway sections. We really try to avoid closing down major infrastructure arteries for a long time. This part of the track is biggest artery connecting to the major cities in the east of the countries and Central Germany, and closing it down for a longer time would add 1hr+ on the detour, likely resulting in people switching over to a car instead.
The Netherlands has grown from a 5 million to almost 18 million from 1900 to present day, and if we don't want to turn our entire historical dominant West side of our country in an huge metropolitan area, all major arteries become critical and there is pressure to keep traffic flowing.
This train station took ten years! It’s just that so much of that came to planning and preparation that when it came to construction, the station only had to be closed for two weekends. I’m jealous of the efficiency too, here in the UK an old train line in my local area is being reopened and an abandoned station brought back into use. It was originally supposed to open in 2022 but still isn’t finished. At least it’s not causing any disruption in the meantime!
For people wondering how much this all costs: The project budget was 192 million Euro in 2010, and there are some newspaper articles about a 10 million cost overrun, so all in all about 200 million Euro.
Only a 10 million overrun since 2010? That is pretty impressive.
@@hendman4083 I think that is the most impressive part. But competing for impressiveness with the tight planning of placing the actual bridge and of aligning all the different levels of government and transport involved.
200 million for a regional train station is completely absurd, even by Dutch standards.
@@Giruno56 Its an investment to get rid of a bottleneck, so more trains can run on that track.
@@hendman4083 Still, quite a high budget. Not that I am opposed to the project, but it is an extreme example even in the Netherlands. Especially when looking at the amount of rails that were laid for this money...
In the future, I hope the whole line will be quadrupled and 200 km/h operation possible.
I think the traffic light defaulting to green at 11:30 is actually to protect cyclists that have to much speed racing across the intersection without cars having time to react to the cyclists. I know how fun it is to race through with such speed. For everyone's safety it's the best the cyclists know by default, that they can't blindly race across the intersection expecting cars to stop. There is a car advantage sure, but as a Dutchman who works for ProRail and doesn't drive a car, I can say its the safest solution. At least one that wouldn't bloat an already expensvie but magnificent project.
It's also more environmentally friendly. Stopping a car and making it accelerate again, uses a lot of energy, thus burning more fuel and producing more emissions the people around it have to breathe in.
It's basically better in every aspect as it is. I don't understand this bit in the video.
That is actually quite a insightful well thought about solution.
@@whuzzzup I do agree with the safety part but not with environmental part.
Imagine the case where all trafic lights would favor cars, a lot more people would choose the car instead of the bike. Now the emissions would be higher.
What I am trying to make clear is that you don't only need to look at the emissions by that intersection but also the change of behaviour (and thus modal chose), small changes like these can actually have significant impact on behaviour
Defaulting to green for cars is much much much better than the alternative (defaulting to red). Other people have mentioned the direct safety, the environmental aspect. But I grew up near a 'default red' pedestrian crossing of a local through-town road. It was scary. I don't know of any accidents, but the road in question was in my youth a popular acceleration road due to so few cuts in an otherwise relatively long and safe road. Except for the 'default red' light. People quickly learned that 95% of the time the light would change to green when they got close, and would get complacent. The number of times cars would blast through, or last second brake, when pedestrians and cyclists were about to cross is horrible.
The most important thing for traffic safety is being able to trust that the other road users will follow the rules (hence why crossing a red light when there is no traffic is a bad idea as you begin to erode your own trust in the red light). Thus, don't give them reason to expect one thing, but once in a while change it up with soft users.
So I was checking your description and noticed your last link. The title of that video actually explains why there is no development going on around Drievergen - Zeist. It is a "Landgoed Station" (Estate station). It is situated in a area (probably with historic significance for either country or region) where you can't just "build a neighborhood". Many people will come to that station specifically because it is situated in the middle of one of the Netherland's bigger nature areas (Gooi, Eemland em Vechtstreek). That is why it has 6 trains an hour both directions, has a big bike parking with e-bikes for rental. It offers direct bike access to het Gooische and Hilversumse bos, de Hoge en Lage Vuursche. De Gooische, Ankeveense, 'S-gravenlandse and Vechtse plassen. Several smaller woods, small towns. Some of the best cycle routes to Utrecht, Hilversum and Amsterdam. You don't want neighborhoods there.
Exactly, that's the reason, and the surroundings are a protected area.
The station wasn't even meant for recreation purposes, it just happened to be on the second oldest amd largest train lines from the Netherlands (the Rhijnspoorweg, built halfway the 19th Century, from Amsterdam to Utrecht and Arnhem into Germany).
Sorry, but as someone who has lived in Hilversum, this is not anywhere near the places you mentioned. The closest would be lage vuursche which is 16 km away, ankeveen is 30 km. It definitely has nice natural areas close to it, but not those.
If the place around a train station is not developed for 150 years, there is a reason for that. Just rebuilding the station will not change the reason why the place was not developed for so long.
This is the National Park Utrechtse Heuvelrug region
I live in Driebergen, I love the station. A massive upgrade from before the project
As someone from the Netherlands, i approve of someone loving our beautiful country so much.
But also, he puts up videos only looking at the good, never the bad. We have a lot of problems here, he ignores them. The cost of living here is insane, and people who are dependent on public transport are having more difficulty affording tickets and fairs. Even going a relatively small distance by train costs like 30 euro per person without a subscription to get a discount.
@@jody024 Eh, whatever. I get flooded by whats wrong with our country every day. We always complain and bitch and never talk about the good things. Not saying youre wrong, but we can have some positivity somewhere in between all the crap.
@@jody024 I think you're misunderstanding the point of this channel if you think he "ignores" the Netherlands' problems. The point isn't for it to be a balanced overview of what life in NL is like, it's to talk about urbanism and hold up the Netherlands (and other places) as an example of what's possible with good urban planning. I'm sure he wouldn't disagree that the Netherlands has problems, it just wouldn't make any sense to make videos about that on this channel, unless the problems are relevant to the topic.
Also, it's not like these problems are unique to the Netherlands. Most of the world (certainly most of the developed world) seems to be in the middle of a CoL crisis right now. The current housing crisis in the Netherlands is something a little closer to the topics he usually covers, but maybe he doesn't bring it up because he doesn't feel like he knows enough about the subject to speak authoritatively about why it's happening and how it could be fixed.
Re: public transport being expensive, I do think it would be cool if he talked more about e.g. how different public transport systems around the world are funded, subsidization, private vs. state-owned operators, etc., but he probably considers that to be out of scope for this channel, especially since public transport is only one aspect of what he talks about here.
There must be an upside from so many expats like Jason and myself coming to live here in NL, hopefully we give back.
@@jody024 This channel is about urbanism. The economy has nothing to do with it, not in a large scale at least.
I would like to point out that most stations don't have gates, just big cities have gates. I kinda like the atmosphere that the lack of gates gives off. As a small town boy, It immediately gives a claustrophobic feeling whenever you pass through those gates.
Yeah the vast majority of train stations have no gates. Just the big ones tend to have them, and some "medium" sized ones like Deventer. I think it depends on the case which is better, a lot of stations also act as passageways from one side of the rails to the other (thats an issue i have with Deventer, it could be an easy passageway across the rails thats prevented by gates) and it gives a more open feel to the place. On the contrary, it can lead to folk that arent really supposed to be there being sketchy around the station, "hangjongeren" really mostly
You gotta love Berlin then.
Me on the other hand, oftentimes when I go to Schiphol I forget to check in/out with my ov chipkaart due to the lack of ticket gates... Sure, I can claim it back online but only for a finite number of times. I was glad when Den Haag centraal (where I live) added barriers.
@@kroketbanana1792 yeah when I first came to the Netherlands I didn't know I had to check-in at Schiphol, fortunately you can still check-out at your destination, otherwise it'd be kinda awkward to get stuck at Rotterdam Centraal. I certainly prefer having gates at stations.
Man, your excitement in the intro made me tear up. Myself being from a highly corrupted country, whenever I go abroad to a place that has railway/metro and organized infrastructure I get overwhelmed with similar joy.
I truly believe people who can admire train stations could achieve world peace.
This station's location is a compromise that serves two nearby communities and provides access to the protected nature between. It had to be here. Going to either town makes it too far for the other, and forking would be too much even here. Protected nature rules here include no new trees may be cut to make room for construction, and no construction above the treeline. This station will likely never be upzoned.
For anyone living here it's an incredible upgrade, and with many of the small stations coming up for a refresh in the near future, expect the design to spread fast.
I'm curious what's the reason for keeping buildings below the treeline? Is it an ecological thing or just views?
Even within that restriction, the land use is pretty poor, almost as bad as the good train stations here in Canada.
@@tristanridley1601 You look at it the wrong way, the land use is too much for a nature preserve, which is what it should be.
@@tristanridley1601 It's a rule implemented specifically to avoid "overgrowth buildings", buildings that don't fit the rural landscape. simply put, this area is not a town, it's a few homes owned by very rich people, and a small number of those eventually got turned into or torn down and replaced with an office building. The train station exists here as a compromise to pay off the two townships who's forest the rail cuts through.
The history of (the location of) the train station in the mid-1800s is actially quite interesting. It is not as random as Jason makes you believe in this video. That said, this video is almost painting a picture of paradise, which The Netherlands most certainly is NOT. One of the main reasons is the population double from 9 million inhabitants in 1945 to (close to) 18 million right now. This has huge consequences which we don't seem to be able to mange efficiently.
@@tristanridley1601difference is that in Canada there are large nature preserves. The Netherlands is one of the most dense countries in terms of population and even then most of our land is used for farming (54%) and infrastructure/buildings is 13%. So every tiny bit of nature has to be preserved if possible since you almost never get it back. 19% is water, and just 12% land nature (dunes/forests/etc). source: "How do we use our land?" CBS ( Dutch statistics bureau) 2020.
For canada: 38.1% forest 54.3% other natural land. 5.8% cropland 0.1% urban (!). Note these percentages exclude water use thus not directly comparable but the point is clear. Source: "Pathways to sustainable land use and food systems in Canada" zerrifi et al 2022.
I live in a moderately bikeable area in the Vancouver BC area, I can do most of my day to day activities without needing to get in a car. It still blows my mind that the worst the Dutch have to offer for bike infrastructure is miles ahead of anything I encounter here. If they would treat transit and trains even half as seriously here as they do there, I'd almost never need a car.
Yeah, this is what prompted me to make my last video about 5 years in the Netherlands. I see stuff in the middle of nowhere that, if transplanted in Canada, would be held up as the greatest infrastructure in the country.
@@NotJustBikes This feels like the middle of nowhere, because it is on the fringes of the National Park "Utrechtse Heuvelrug". I cannot imagine that a new district or city will be erected in the national park or the adjacent landscape. Maybe it will be an option if the country gets flooded by sea level rise. But until then, suggesting it seriously, would create an uproar.
You'll find the infrastructure in what's called the North of the country to be somewhat lacking, Groningen city excluded. Then again, that's where you'll find yourself truely in the middle of nowhere, not just a low density spot between cities. Still got cycling infra and twice hourly bus transit within cycling distance of the German border. So, while it's not quite as good as elsewhere, it's still functional. Unfortunately, the Emmen Meppen (Germany) line has gone out of service, so you'll have to catch a train from Groningen or Enschede to cross the border. Continental European journeys by train (or public transit in general) are not yet quite as good as they should be.
15:11 When I went on a trip to the netherlands a year ago, I planned to have 20+ Minutes for each transfer. Picture me surprised when I see the previous train to the one I was planning to take on the opposite side of the platform I'm standing on. I arrived at my destination an hour early and thats for an 8 hour trip across borders and with more than 4 transfers!
13:59 I really hope there is absolutely no development near this train station. Forrested areas are so scarce in the Netherlands that every bit there is still around must be protected.
Thanks for this one. As a Dutch person we all too often just take it for granted. This is our monthly reminder though we are taxed to death, this country actually is a great place to live.
I'm willing to pay a lot of taxes, so long as I feel those taxes are actually being used to improve the country.
Funny that dutch people always say that. Taxes in the Netherlands are actually lower than in Germany and Belgium.
Don't think we don't pay taxes in the US. Not as much, sure, but we don't get as much.
@@CreRay Depends on the kind of taxes. There are quite a lot of wealthy "economic refugees" that leave the Netherlands for Belgium because of lower housing costs and lower income tax.
We do pay a lot of taxes its just that the income tax is lower than our neighbors. but their buying products taxes are lower.
I think if you combine all taxes (Income, expense, inheritance tax, etc,) We do pay a lot of taxes, but we always see it spend somewhat well (as long as it isn't spend on other countries)
We have superb public transport compared to other countries, superb roads. excellent health care etc.
I think spending more taxes to improve ones country is a good thing but you cant have corruption or dumb politicians who spend the money wrong.
Now our country also isn't perfect, but traveling to other countries it always shows how good we do have it.
The station of Ede-Wageningen is also currently being renovated. It's an insanely big project too, due to be finished by the end of 2024. At the same time they're also renovating the surrounding land (ENKA terrain, Parkweg, and Mauritskazerne) and the road network (Parklaan, Generaal Hackettlaan, Klinkenbergerweg and Bennekomseweg). They even widened the Albertstunnel to make room for another train track, and there will be a large fietstunnel. It would be interesting to see you cover that one too, when it's done. If you feel like it. :-)
The line between Utrecht Centraal and Arnhem Centraal is one of the oldest in the country (which always surprises me, seeing as it traverses some pretty hostile geography, by Dutch standards), and it's definitely received the attention it deserves in the past two decades. Major renovations on the large stations either side of the line, and now the stations in between are getting tackled too. But far more important than the stations is the removal of level crossings, because all of that is preparatory work for eventually upgrading the line to one allowing trains to do 200km/h, which should not only make a major difference to ICEs running into Germany, but also make the journey from Nijmegen or Arnhem to Amsterdam even quicker than it already is.
I live in Ede (like you might too) and I gotta say, I'm really curious to see what it's gonna look like when it's finished. It took them a while to start building, but it's already looking promising! I especially really like the look of the new roof over the platforms. Really love to see what more they're gonna do!
@@rjfaber1991 The 'by Dutch standards" is needed here 😂
@notjustbikes I would love to give you a tour on station Ede-Wageningen! 😉
@@MrWoezoe Prorail who is responsible for building the new station has published some renders of the station and the surroundings. www.prorail.nl/siteassets/homepage/projecten/ede-spoorzone/2.1.-spoorzone-ede-2022-p2-1.pdf
Compared to some of the stations I use most often in the UK such as Edinburgh Waverley,Haymarket and Darlington,this is a breath of fresh air. Not just because it has way more cycle parking and to a higher standard,but the connections have been so well planned too. I will keep these designs in mind for future consultations as it makes it the new gold standard for me. Oh yes,and Utrect Centraal is great too
Thanks for mentioning cross platform transfers. They're not only for your train connection. In fact, cross platform transfers are very common. One other trick used by NS is making distances between stations exactly half an hour of train travel apart, so that you can switch trains both ways without waiting for your connection at many stations.
Whilst I agree that that flatbed truck should really not be on the cycle path, it doesn't appear to be delivering cars - it's from the ANWB Wegenwacht which is the emergency breakdown service, so most likely dropping off/picking up a broken down/repaired car :).
(fun fact ANWB stands for Algemene Nederlandse Wielrijders Bond and was originally set up back in 1883 to promote... cycling)
Viel mij ook op !
The one thing I noticed that others haven't picked up on, is how your pronunciation of "ui" has improved. Most English speaking people can't do that, getting as close as "au".
Dutch people often say the "g" sound is hard, but I don't believe it is. The dipthongs are much harder. Next up is improving "ei" because it sounds too much like "eye" right now.
Yeah, I'm practising, but it's definitely hard, as an adult. The "g" sound is really not that difficult compared to the "ui" or "eu".
However I also find myself pronouncing them differently when I'm speaking English and drop one Dutch word (like in my videos), vs when I'm just speaking Dutch.
@@NotJustBikesswitching between Dutch and English in the same sentence always feels awkward, like I need to switch gears and even then I don't fully succeed.
Hoog tijd voor een video in het Nederlands!
@@NotJustBikes The video below is bloopers from Defragged History, whom i regard as the best storyteller of (Dutch) history on youtube. Her Eighty Years' War series is honestly one of the best i've ever seen on the subject, including museums & telly.
Anyway, in the blooper reel you hear her struggling with switching between languages, from Spanish, Italian, French, German, but also including Dutch & English.
So if she, a Dutch native has trouble pronouncing a Dutch word in an English sentence, you should give yourself some leeway.(not too much though, keep practicing! ;-)
czcams.com/video/Hpd26MILses/video.html
@@kladblok2729 With English subtitles for those who can't understand Dutch (not my problem ;) )
I lived in Amsterdam for 4 years at the turn of the century (this one!). I had friends in Zeist and often traveled there by train. I had a pleasant memory jolt when you showed the old station; I remember it well. Thank you for your videos. I really enjoyed my time in the Netherlands and it always brings a smile to my face when you show or talk about places that I am familiar with. Such a great well-thought-out country. No space is wasted there and the Dutch can build anything out of bricks and sand. Danje wel.
Whu didn't you stay in the NL?
"Eerst een knelpunt, nu een knooppunt." Pretty much sums it up really, they've done a fantastic job.
Local guy from Zeist here! It took forever to start construction, I remember seeing a preliminary design for this station back in the 2000s! I kinda miss the old station though, shown at 2:40. The level crossing was pretty bad and unsafe, but I have fond memories of watching trains arrive and pass with my grandparents. Aside from the old platform roof (6:14), not much else was saved during construction. In terms of design, it's very well done. It is a great puzzle to fit and meet all the demands for this station. From what I've heard, the municipality of Zeist want to construct more housing (due to housing shortage through the whole Netherlands), and they look at Driebergen-Zeist with great interest. So probably in the next few years there will be some development but nothing is set in stone.
Bicycle Dutch has a great article and video about Driebergen-Zeist, if you'd like to learn more:
bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2021/11/03/a-public-transport-hub-in-the-forest-station-driebergen-zeist/
Video: czcams.com/video/sXSIFSg6l_I/video.html
There are also lots of links in the description, as usual.
I live along the same line and they want to close the level crossing here too. Imo its bad it will thrash the local town vibe and make it a better route for sluipverkeer between the a12 and the a50 which probably makes the town less safe.
THANK YOU, i heard you say that it flew under the radar & i was like, but Mark has made a blogpost about it.
I appreciate you kept the joke about the letter of bus platforms
He's had a bunch of riding videos near that station. I thought it looked familiar.
I loOove Bicycle Dutch. Nearly all his videos have a link with blogs that explain things with more details.
Driebergen and Zeist are making plans for about 500 to 2500 housing units in the Driebergen-Zeist station area. The plans will be published near the end of 2024/start of 2025.
Several years ago my wife and I took the train from Tucson, AZ to Chicago. First it was 2 hours late which, we found out was normal. Seconed that train had to sideline to let a freight train through since it had the right of way. What should have taken about 3 days took over a week. Needless to say we flew back to Tucson. It's so nice to see how train transportation can work.
Okay I am going to annoy some SBB (Swiss railway) people to show this video internally to the right people. This is absolutely a train station we can learn something from.
Swiss train stations aren’t bad either.
@@erik5374Not bad but not as good as the newer Dutch railway stations.
I recently was able to travel to the Netherlands, and while I expected excellent transportation infrastructure, I was struck by how much design is valued in other fields as well. It seems like a higher value is placed on thoughtful form and function in just about every aspect of life. That extended to the architecture of the buildings, the engineering of infrastructure, the landscape design in the parks, the graphical interface design in public-facing systems, etc. I don't know if it comes from having dealt with "artificial" spaces for so long due to the country's history of managing water or what, but it's a culture that we could all benefit from adopting.
You probably hit the nail on the head: due to the history of managing water !! ..... which never becomes history but always stays in present time, with 2/3 of our country under sea level. It is in the DNA to construct waterworks and think in flow and currents. Every household and business had to do that for thousands of years. Logically the people of this country demand efficient engineering of flows and currents, as we are all experts by genetics.
its 1.3 under sealvle but 2.3 of population lives there.@@user-ij1nv8be3i
As a railway engineer i absolutely agree that this Station is beautiful
Travelling in The Netherlands some years ago, I was talking with a local inhabitant. She was surprised when I said how 'civilised' we found the country. Certainly the Dutch urban environment is a very humane place to be.
And it didn't dawn on you at all how condescending you sounded?
@@janpavel1441The lady understood exactly what i meant and was not at all offended.
@@gerry343 It's alright! We understand being 'direct' .
The car towing truck at 9:50 seems to be from the ANWB. That's an organisation that does car repairs on the road and tows vehicles that need more specialised repairs. I'm guessing the car dealership also functions as a repair shop. But still, I don't know why it was parked on the bike lane and not somewhere else.
I think someone put the wrong fuel in the tank.
The American equivalent is the AAA
14:09 My guess is that they didn't/won't develop this area on purpose, because it is in the middle of the Utrechtse Heuvelrug area as well as some historical estates. And since this country already has preciously little natural beauty in terms of forests, they probably want to keep it as low density as possible. Area's for large developments are specifically designated, Kampen-Zuid being such an area. But also places Leidsche Rijn near Utrecht or Ypenburg near The Hague. Had the surroundings of Driebergen-Zeist been plain old boring grasslands, it probably would have been designated as a high density development site before the station's renovation.
Developing the already built area to higher density would be useful, though, regardless how charming those cottages are. There is a housing shortage in the Netherlands, and this would be a great place to add some. Without destroying nature.
How does low density development like the business park and gas station better suit the nature than something denser?
@@tristanridley1601since there is not a lot of nature in the Netherlands to begin with. More people need more infrastructure, shops (in NL you usually don't drive long to nearby groceries.). Those few buildings are happy to be there to begin with its close to the Utrechtse Heuvelrug one of the few places of dense connected forrest in the Netherlands. I suspect they are very old and that is the only reason they are there. Also we have a soil problem in the Netherlands due to our farmland so building close to nature is a very legislative hobby.
The Netherlands is one of the most dense countries in terms of population and even then most of our land is used for farming (54%) and infrastructure/buildings is 13%. So every tiny bit of nature has to be preserved if possible since you almost never get it back. 19% is water, and just 12% land nature (dunes/forests/etc). source: "How do we use our land?" CBS ( Dutch statistics bureau) 2020.
If you would compare NL with a city it is as if you are advocating for denser buildings in one of the few parks in the city.
It's a bit a lost opportunity to not develop the area around such a great train station. Train station are a great development booster. Look at historic cities around Europe: Train stations were originally built a bit away from historic centers (using new cheaper land and avoiding the risk of fires by steam locomotives), but generally cities eventually started growing around these train stations and shifting their centers in its direction.
@@tristanridley1601 Good point, It doesn't... But it was already there well before this issue popped up. I suppose Forcing businesses and homes that were already there is too drastic a step.
when you laughed and said "i love this country" i really felt that
In the uk this would cost 1billion and be delayed by 10years then scrapped
"How many platforms? J. J bus platforms!"
Just as you said this I looked out the window of my bus in Slussen, Stockholm and counted up to S bus platforms! 😊
That bike path that runs underneath the station runs essentially from Utrecht to Arnhem. Pretty much separated from the road the whole way through.
I'm Dutch, have always been very interested in our railways and been working at ProRail for almost fifteen years now, but I never heard the coffee family story before. Thanks for teaching something nice every video!
Love how you get excited about great planning. I think people rarely understand how much work it takes for things to operate smoothly. Engineers are rockstars! Keep up the good work.
The joys of seeing mundane daily things on this channel never seizes to amaze me. It gives you a new perspective on the things I take for granted.
When I heard "11 Trains per hour per direction" I laughed, because here in Bonn we have a level-crossing which is absolutely aweful. We're always counting trains and the record is 10 Trains before the railroad barrier rises again. A google search told me, that f.e. on tuesday mornings it is closed 47 minutes in 1 hour 🤣. But there are plans to build an underpass so in probably 10 years everything will be fine.
Hmm, German construction & railways... It will be gründlich, but are you _sure_ that everything will be fine in *only* 10 years?
* wanders off to watch Dutch "the road/railway is closed for 72 hours so it must be finished quickly" construction videos *
@@LeafHuntress Not limited to German railways, I seem to recall something about an airport near Berlin, but again German construction and planning.
I'm a very "I need a map of the layout" person, and I googled both the station and the parking garage. Check this:
To get from [place] to the parking garage, you need to enter a secondary road, drive the curved road of the drop-off zone, face the annoying traffic light Jason mentioned, drive another curved road and just THEN you enter the parking area. The traffic light area is fairly complex and it clearly indicates where cars, bicycles and humans on foot go, so by the time cars need to enter/exit the garage, there's just cars in the equation. Everyone else was moved to a safer crossing further away, or the annoying traffic light.
That's...so insanely clever. A lesser planner would've put a few zebra crossings and a warning sign and call it a day. This is someone who actually took in consideration all the people that will be involved in these busy 150 meters between the station and the garage. Genius.
Last year, the day after christmas, I got stuck at driebergen zeist with no clear word on when trains would be going again for at least 3 hours. I had to wait for someone to pick me up for at least 1 hour and this was rainy cold late december. It was a great relief to be able to sit in the warmth of the little café while I waited.
If you want to visist more weirdly nice small trainstations: Delft campus is another one. There is still a bit of construction going on, but its the first energy neutral trainstation of the Netherlands and has become really nice after they renovated it
It also has wonderfully complex bikelane overpasses close by
Driebergen-Zeist is also energy neutral.
The reason this station sees a lot of traffic despite being in the middle of nowhere, is because a lot of students in the area use it to get to Utrecht University, since the bus connection from this station is much better than from the Utrecht Centraal train station (hence the large number of bus platforms in Driebergen-Zeist).
Even better: park an old omafiets bicycle at Bunnik railroad station and cycle just 3.5 kilometers to the Uithof (Utrecht Science Park where the university and hospital are). ;-)
When I worked at the Uithof I had a colleague from Nijmegen who did this. Worked great for her.
I had something similar when I had internships earlier this year, I biked for 2 minutes to my station, have a direct connection with Amsterdam Amstel, I had to be at Bijlmer ArenA because that station was closest but no train would go directly there, but the genius thing about Amstel is that on the same platform you have a railway and a metro, so I go by metro to Bijlmer and then had a 4 minute walk from there. The planning is genius and I am really happy about that, made stuff a lot more doable
Several years ago the level crossing in the city of Sremska Mitrovica (Serbia) was reconstructed just like the one in the video - including the half-drop path for cyclists and pedestrians 😊
Hollowing out the space under the tracks for traffic and the station facilities is such a brilliant move.
This Texan just returned home from my first visit to the Netherlands! I'm hooked! Can't wait to go back, and I'm totally inspired to ride my bike every chance I get!
Today in Israel is Yom Kippur, where cars aren't allowed on the roads and everyone goes out in bikes and drives on the highways, and while I think tel aviv is very well designed for pedestrians and bikes, I went today randomly to this one area near the central bus station, with this giant ramp above the street which makes the area feel very claustrophobic and dark, and also turned this area into a hotbed of lots of crime. Seeing social safety be so prioritized in the Netherlands seems so amazing, I really hope that these Dutch designs would be applied everywhere else in the world.
Hello! I used to reside near that area and had friends who lived in the houses you mentioned, including near the car dealership. An interesting challenge in that area is that the municipal boundary between Zeist and Driebergen cuts through those homes. This means a house might be in Driebergen while its neighboring house could be in Zeist. This poses challenges for construction, as the building regulations differ between the two towns. While the Netherlands boasts many top-tier infrastructure projects, there's certainly room for improvement at the local government level, especially when multiple municipalities are involved!
It's so frustrating to think about that most people might not even realize why these kind of stations are so nice to use - However, you explained it very well what makes it so nice for all the different kinds of transportation and hopefully educate even more people so we can build this kind of infrastructure in many more cities also outside of the Netherlands.
Train stations being nice to use is so incredibly important as it makes travelling by train so much more pleasant.
Public transportation from the southeast and southwest of Amsterdam is pretty impressive, although I'm not sure how it is with the buses these days. But a lot of different hubs have been developed over the past 20 years or so.
Still, we need to be careful to maintain and improve what we have. As a small country with good infra, we have very little excuse not to maximize the services.
Jason, where in the hell were you sixty years ago when the world could have easily taken advantage of this sort of planning? I blame you for not inventing a "way-back" machine! Seriously, this was a great example of people doing the right thing for the right reasons! Please, keep it up!!!!
Nothing stops people from implementing great ideas right now to serve the following decades.
Mind blowing that one of my favourite new channels does a video on my hometown train station. As a local I can tell you that the redesign is loved by everyone that I know that lives in Zeist. FYI I believe that the princenhof building was there before the redesign and therefore the entrance was already there. There was a bike lane there before though to the old bicycle parking area on the Zeist side if I remember correctly.
I think you ought to visit the south of The Netherlands sometimes. Take the fast train from Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Breda and transfer to Breda-Tilburg-Eindhoven. Each of these stations is unique (and all recently renovated) - from the Rotterdam "kapsalon" metal facade to the Breda station which has an indoors bus station at platform level and a P+R on the roof, to Tilburg with a library and food hall built in former train maintenance buildings, to Eindhoven where all intercity trains are same-platform transfers, and the bus station goes up to "L" (not to mention the surrounding areas - in Breda they removed a parking garage to reinstate the old canal which has no other function than to just look nice).
Driebergen-Zeist is way more relevant to North Americans because most of our train stations are "not in a great location" (because we've demolished most of the great locations and rebuilt them low density).
This is a design we could copy brick for brick if we wanted to.
Alright so, I'm not Dutch but I have very close family in the Netherlands and I've been visiting this beautiful country almost every year since early childhood. Therefore, I feel very at home in the Netherlands and each time I hear or see other people praising it in any way, be it infrastructure-wise or safety-wise, I'm genuinely filled with pride. I discovered your channel by accident last year (ironically, my first video from you was "Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter", and I'm Finnish, so it was a very interesting video to see) and I adore your content, your knowledge is truly extraordinary and I love how you manage to make videos on so many different topics, even though they all relate to city design and land use. Keep up the good work! 👍
PS Your Dutch pronunciation is very impressive, like seriously, WOW! I also agree completely that Utrecht Centraal is a super cool train station :D
6:38 I do want to add that, as a VERY regular cyclist there, more often than not do I have to do an emergency stop. The combination of downwards slope (i.e. increase in velocity), the slight turn (poor visibility) and the entrance to the bike parking on the opposite side (i.e. blindly crossing humans) make the bike path pretty dangerous. It's perhaps the only downside I can think of!
9:55 that truck could have also been delivering or picking up a broken car (Wegenwacht = help for when your car broke down). ;)
11:29 I think the reason why cars get green by default is to prevent cyclists from slipping through, as MANY cyclists ignore the red light.
12:46 not sure, but I think much of the land there is "protected" for various reasons. Or, it can have destination "office", then the office block is destroyed, but simply changing the destination to "leisure" or "housing" would suddenly massively increase the financial value of the land which is something local governments don't like to do.
Also, I think I saw you film there once, but couldn't find myself in the video ;)
Damn, even SW England/GWR/SWR can't keep up with that.
I'm Dutch and to be honest . Hearing a person like Jason (Canadian of birth) talking so enthousiastic about a railway station.
I does touches my Dutch ❤.
PS. I do agree that this one one, if not the, best railway station designs for stations of this size.
I've lived a 5 minute bike ride away from this station since 2001 and I'm very happy with the new station.
It only has 1 issue: The Kiss and Ride aka dropoff is too small. As you can see, there are never any spots free at the K+R, during peak hours this sometimes causes some traffic congestion onto the main road.
Other than that, it's a great station and I'm very happy that they kept the original station roof.
But would the K+R not suffer from induced demand? Make it twice as big and more people will say "oh don't take the bike I'll just drop you off" and you're back to "Great station but the dropoff is too small". Whereas now it is "too small" maybe that makes people think about using alternatives.
"The Kiss&Ride" 😻
Funny. I also want to comment about the drop off. Even at 11am it was full of cars. We were there to get OV bikes to go around Zeist because there are no bike rentals anywhere. We wanted to bike instead of travel around with the camper. But we had to drive a few rounds just to find a free spot and we noticed that some are actually parking there. Also less spots because of taxis so yeah, bummer.
@@MarcelVolkerP+R also is a similar concept, right? I need to bike 20 min to my station then 40 min train to Rotterdam. Since my wife also travels around the same time, we carpool, she drops me off and I take the train. Seems better than travelling by car the whole route. I also save on fuel since my employer pays for my train card. So, I don't think increasing the demand would always be a bad idea. Some people are not fond of biking in the rain, if someone can drop me off until the station compared to driving to my destination, then I will always take that.
@@ksoosk That's great 😃 it does sound like the time limit could be imposed stricter to prevent congestion.
Grappig om te zien dat dit als zeer speciaal wordt gezien terwijl dit normaal is in Nederland.
The Netherlands just shames the UK in so many fronts - the public infrastructure is so incredible, the quality of life for Dutch citizens is so good. Meanwhile our roads are rubbish, our trains and busses are rubbish so no matter how you travel, you have a bad time, and our politicians are literally talking about cutting rail projects such as HS2 and focusing on cars instead. A disgraceful nation.
About a year ago I got stranded on station Driebergen-Zeist; it was cold and rainy and I wasn't sure about how long the delay was so I wasn't going for a walk into the nearby woods. It gave me the time to really spend some time looking around the trainstation and having seen a lot of trainstation both in and outside of the Randstad I had to admit that it might be the nicest trainstation I've ever seen. They really went: "well, we got all the space we need... why not just do it right, like really right"
EDIT: I'll mention the only noticeable downside. The public spaces under the platform are not very inviting. There's too many windows in the waiting rooms, you want a bit more privacy. It's also rather dark under the platform and it's hard to explain but it sorta sucks in the wind, making it more chilly than the surrounding. Especially on a winter day that turns it into an uninviting place. Add some extra lamps, blind some of the windows and most of all... invite some artists to add some colourful murals!
Interestingly, I think lots of windows for the waiting room might make me feel safer if travelling alone as a single woman. I often prefer to wait out in the open in plain sight than be in a more enclosed/shielded from view location with strangers. (Busy waiting rooms are fine, it's when it's me plus one or two other people/me plus a group that I worry that if something happened no one would know.)
At some point we have to admit the dutch infrastructure people start to feel like max verstappen on a F1 track just showing off for the fun of it. I started to record some of my own rides (mostly in utrecht) simply because everyday i am shocked how things keep changing. One reason i think so many dutch people watch these videos from you and others is not just pride (thats part of it i guess) but also because we are also impressed and want to know more about all the infrastructure changes in our country that seem to be speeding up all the time. People from other countries might think only small parts are being worked on but the amount of changes in the last 10 years is speeding up and start to make more and more sense and keep matching how people want to use it. I am all for it it was ships before, then windmills and now infrastructure in general that we can export both water and land. Weirdly enough i just biked from 'Slot zeist' to Utrecht central station and recorded it will put it online later today (not that many watch but i don't care we can't all be NJB).
I think we also watch because it seems so normal that nearly no Dutch notices how much thought has gone into Dutch infrastructure. Watching videos like this really helps appreciating those thoughts and is very insightful.
For instance, I bike a lot in Paris and I notice that the quickly developed bike infrastructure there, and consequently bikers' behaviour, resembles Amsterdam in the 80s/90s. Bikers where WAY more antisocial and dangerous then than they are now in Amsterdam. Good infrastructure causes better behaviour. Consequently, the resistance against bikers in Paris is large. They have a long way to go, like we did! (You see this is so many cities in the world.) I started seeing the link between behaviour and infrastructure because of channels like these.
@@qqleq Very true we need a trigger to want to learn more for me its both local changes but i also travel a lot in europe and the states and indeed that also triggers searches. Travel also means you have to explain our bicycle habits i have been traveling for about 4 months over the last year and had to explain next to the windmills, smoking pot mostlyn bicycle questions esp when i tell them i work amsterdam and live in utrecht. btw i think bicycle people in amsterdam have a long way to go compared to the more relaxed ones in Utrecht :)
In case you've done both, how would you rate going between Utrecht Centraal and Zeist to going between Driebergen-Zeist station and Zeist? I've only dealt with the former route.
With the way things are going now overall, it will eventually create political upheaval in other countries.
It only takes a couple cities/towns to create local examples people can't ignore behind a border and language barrier. And Dutch planners are increasingly traveling overseas at the request of organisations and local councils.
It is all getting harder and harder to ignore as the Dutch continue to improve. The power of shame lol.
And is it just me, but a lot the countries that are changing the most are right next to NL? What will happen in the US if the UK changes, with the lack of language barrier etc?
One thing I noticed about many areas in the Netherlands is that there is barely any space for pedestrians on some of those roads. On some streets, there are paths for pedestrians but they are either filled with parked cars or bikes. How do people with children or people in a wheelchair, or those who are blind navigate those cities without any vehicles? With this particular station, I see that there is a guide line for blind people on a small path next to the bike lane and that the regular path intended for pedestrials has several stairs.
Browsing through some areas in several Dutch cities on street view, I see some people walking across the bike lanes and parking on the sidewalks, not only to load and unload stuff from their car, and sidewalks which are overgrown in addition to being tiny enough that two people couldn't pass each other. Also, street signs in the middle of the sidewalk which would make wheelchairs and prams/buggies unable to pass through. As being able to walk is the main component of a place being alive, I am not too surprised that many of those places look rather empty and dead. I used to think that bike only streets would change this, but hurrying through is never living as I learned when the place where I live changed.
What I do appreciate is that most of those streets look really easy to overview. That is so vital for everyones safety. I am on the spoiled side for public transport, I see it as the only way to keep a place alive. It is the only way that still makes a city about people and not about passing through everyone.