Fix The Novus Ordo First, Then We Can Talk
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- Is it just me, or is the witch hunt against traditionalist catholics going into overdrive?
it seems like there's article after article and video after video talking about how these traditional groups are in schism, and they are being disobedient to the Pope.
and testimonial stories of how
"I escape. The traditionalist trap"
and blah, blah blah.
Rather than throwing stones at fellow Catholics , why don't you guys put all that energy into fixing the Novus ordo? then you can start telling people they have to go there,
When I first started going to mass, it was at a college chapel. They had guitars and drums, it reminded me of the baptist church I had just fled from. I assumed that it would have the same hypocrisy that I experienced in the Baptist church, so I fled away for years. Thankfully I have fallen in love with the church after researching the saints and praying in Latin.
it's weird because I am a European inquirer of the Roman Catholic Church because i disagree with Eastern Orthodox theology, so i'm not baptized or catechized and i attended a Novus Ordo for Christmas very recently, the Church was packed (probably because it was Christmas day aswell though), nearly all the benches filled and it's one of those fairly big historical churches built in the 14th century AD. Folks received communion in hand and it wasn't Ad Orientem (Atleast i think it wasn't) and the priests and the people were reverent, No guitars or any craziness. They had a choir singing very similar to the latin choir at TLM but just in our country's language instead of Latin and the organ was playing aswell. We stood up and made the sign of the cross multiple times. I haven't come across guitars and clown masses. Any thoughts?
@@rass4609 Yup, I'm from the Netherlands and can confirm that most Novus Ordo Masses over here are like that. The majority is pretty reverent and many people still choose to receive communion on the tongue. The Catholic Church in the Netherlands also still uses the bells, the tabernacle is still in the sanctuary and most still have a high altar and there always is an organ and choir. Wish that more NO priests would do Mass ad orientem (on the high altar) though, since the NO doesn't actually have to be that much different from the TLM. I don't mean it in a derogatory way but it seems like liturgical abuse in the NO is something that mainly (but not only) occurs in the Americas, based on what I hear and see.
Do I think that the Novus Ordo needs to fix its problems? Definitely! Do I hope that the next Pope will be more conservative and will fix those problems? Definitely! They're there and we need to get rid of them. I'm definitely more on the traditional side and yes I'm happy with my NO parish but I do think there there's still a lot that needs to be improved.
@@semvandervegte that's pretty funny because i meant the Netherlands in my original post that's where i live aswell, i saw lots of people receiving on the hand but i think it's up to the discretion of the receiver in these Dutch parishes because they seem to all have reasonable people and clergy. My personal take on this after a few months is probably that i prefer it being in a language that i understand instead of Latin, but having all the elements of a TLM like receiving on the tongue, high altar, et cetera. Ad Orientem aswell but that's more 50/50 for me i wouldn't mind either of them. Not sure if this is a common opinion among you guys lol. The receiving on the tongue thing is the most important aspect for me instead of the other details, because out of respect for our Lord
@@rass4609 Oh wow, what an amazing coincidence! Yeah I hear from a lot of people that they would love to receive on the tongue but think it's awkward to do it for the first time. They should just bring back the communion rails tbh. My parish sometimes has Latin liturgy within the NO, which I think is beautiful. I'm also fine with Mass being in vernacular though but yeah it should definitely be more like the TLM. If I were a priest I'd definitely go Ad Orientem on the high altar. It's allowed but since there's a table altar in most NO churches, most priests won't do it.
I agree we need a large traditional Catholic revival.
3:00 - I've noticed this too and it's wild that nobody seems to point it out. When you see a Catholic online who knows their stuff and is trying to take their faith seriously, there's a near-100% chance they don't go to the Novus Ordo. I'm not even anti-NO or disrespecting it, I go to a NO parish for a variety of reasons (one of which is that I actually have been given a somewhat decent degree of influence and am hoping to whisper tradition into the right ears, which may not bear any fruit but I'm going to try it until/unless God prompts me to go elsewhere); my point here is that I'm willing to walk the walk and actually try to hear out the trads and possibly fix the sad state of the NO rather than just leave the sheep to the wolves. Meanwhile, whenever Popesplaining goobers like Michael Lofton get on their high horse about how awful the trads are, and how Pope Francis' statements are always taken out of context, and that he's doing a great job as the Holy Father, I always remember that they don't practice what they're preaching, and would likely be singing a different tune if their own flourishing orthodox Byzantine communities were about to be broken apart like how the Latin Mass communities were. If the best defenses of the Novus Ordo are "Well, it's technically valid, and Jesus is technically there, and technically there wasn't anything out of the norms of orthodoxy in this instance because if you look at the Canon Law...." then we have to take an honest look at the rite and ask if we're nourishing a genuine, living faith with the genuine, living God, or if we're turning every aspect of holy living into a kind of box-checking, bureaucratized exercise where you clock in for an hour, don't technically do anything wrong that would preclude you from the Sacraments, and clock out.
Thank you, very well said
Agree, very well said. I have noticed this as well but couldn’t articulate it. Thank you.
It's really frustrating to be portrayed as an extremist when I just want to go to Mass without hearing Bob Dylan songs during the offertory.
It’s funny, I don’t mind Bob Dylan.
It just doesn’t belong in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Some of you are extremists.
@@KW-mz4pn I am an extremist.
LOL Dylan went from Jew to Evangelical. There's a video on here from the 80s where he gives a sermon that Russia is the antichrist thats gonna take over the world.
@@KW-mz4pnExtremely even. As Church always was. It’s a life or death situation. Extremely important. Eternity is at stake.
From not marrying non Catholics, to not wanting to live with mu$l1ms (immigration, forced) & suggesting to not marrying outside your race, to Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.
If you think any of those are extreme…. Then well the Church was that for almost 2000 years before. I won’t even go to the "extremes" of the Old Testament.
Oh, and Jesus prophesied the Temple will be destroyed. It was done 70AD with million+ of chews being killed.
Get rid of Eucharistic ministers. Get rid of female readers and altar “boys”. Get rid of communion in the hand and bring back communion rails. Make sure that the mass is offered reverently and NO liberties are taken with the liturgy. The only people who are to touch the Eucharist to be the priest or deacon. Have all new priests be trained only in the TLM so that the NO can be phased out over a decade or less.
Sounds good to me
Amen.
Or they could just scrap the novus ordo, and bring back the old rite and for those who like the vernacular have an official translation in the vernacular for those parishes that want it.
The thing is many Catholics are secularist modernists first and Catholics second, many of them don't even believe that things like abortion and fornication are sin. Those people don't want authentic Christianity and that's because Christianity is hard. I think Chesterton wrote something to the effect of that Christianity was tried, it worked, but the people found it too hard and got rid of it. These people see Protestants and how their easy religion is, that they pick the parts of Christianity they want to believe and reject the rest, and because of this these Catholics that want a Catholic version of it.
What I think we've been seeing in the Church since Vatican II is another protestant revolution, but this time the protestants have the reins of power in the Church.
Just a little background about myself I converted from Evangelical Protestantism about 5 years ago and attend a TLM parish. I started out in a NO parish but left after first communion because of the poor catechesis and the irreverence of the NO mass. Just to give you a glimpse of how ridiculous it was at the NO parish. My confirmation and first communion was July of 2020 during the height of COVID. The priest that gave me my first communion was masked and gloved. I had to stand as far away from him as I could stretch out my hands over a table while cupped as the priest dropped the communion host in my hand from about a foot above them. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
@@richardditty5318 during cvid, our parishioners had to drive by our Priest or deacon, wind down our windows and receive Our Blessed Lord as though we were going through the drive through at McDonalds. It was massively disrespectful to Our Saviour. Our Priest and deacon were practically wearing hazmat suits. The only silver lining was that I was still allowed to receive communion on the tongue. So I was very thankful for that. I am also in complete agreement with the rest of your comment. Our mass has been so defiled by traitors. But at least we still have the TLM and the Eastern Catholic traditions. God bless you brother.
It's not gonna happen and I actually prefer the Mass in the vernacular.
I visited Vatican a week ago, tried to attend the solemn dominical mass at 10:30am at the papal altar, while waiting for the mass in front row, I kneeled and prayed as I usually do at Tridentin mass, and I discovered that nobody among more then 300 persons was kneeling. Then a very elderly cardinal (I do not know who he was) passed by the altar with a young priest, both of them have not even bowed their head to the altar of the blessed Lord and continued to walk as if there was nothing important there. I then leaved the St.Peter's Basilica, enraged and disappointed for what NO brought to the church of the Lord. Yes, the Second Council of Vatican never prohibited respectful gesture such as kneeling and bowing towards the altar, but this is it's fruit. A cardinal not even bowing his head towards the altar. Yet what I see in any church practicing the latin mass is even a 3 year old baby kneeling towards the altar when he passes by. Is kneeling so important these days, in the 21st century? Well yes, our blessed Lord still exists today and he has to be honored, glorified, adored and blessed "sicut erat in principio et nunc et semper et in saecula saeculorum". Didn't all of his apostles and disciples and millions of saints kneeled before him? Yet one wants to ignore this humble sign of respect and obedience just because it does not fit for our time? Christ or barabbas, the choice and consequences are yours, as Venerable Fulton Sheen said.
I miss the Tridentine mass of my childhood - its solemnity and its beautiful sacred music which sends one to a higher place. I do believe there were more men and women entering the priesthood and convent because of that most holy mass.
Isn't funny that what every Catholic experienced 50 years ago is now considered extreme?
I was a teenager in 1962 when this modern stuff started with Vatican II I remember we were excited to see what the priest at mass was actually doing, little did we know what a disaster it was to become
Because of the *built in* options for the N.O., it simply cannot be fixed. (IMO)
Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will triumph! Stay calm and pray the rosary dear brothers and sisters in Christ ❤
If you Go to a reverent Novus Ordo then you still fall into the trap of Lex Ordandi, Lex Credendi.
Amen 🙏 🙏 🙏!!! I wish I could send all your videos to my director of education here in Toronto. I'm so tired of the NO and their lenient way of worshipping our King and Savior.
Keep spreading the truth!!! Vivo Cristo Rey! Salve Regina!
3:00 This! Thank you so much for pointing this out, I thought I was the only one who noticed. All these talking heads telling us the Norvus Ordo is "fine" don't even attend it themselves.
It will take divine intervention to clean out the bad clergy. God will act. We just need to be patient.
Only when Christ returns. Things will be bad until then.
The only fix is to get rid of VAT 2. Everything is post-conciliar, especially Fr Barron.
As a "traditional" NO Catholic, I'm trying, lol.
I see the issues in the NO parishes and I am more interested in fixing those than blaming SSPX+ traditionalists.
The only issue I get tired of is parish shopping.
We can't fix the parishes if we don't stay in them and be the Catholics we desire to see in the pews next to us.
I know you don't promote abandoning parishes, but a lot of those further to the trad end of you do and it's a problem.
We need those who see the issues in the NO to be in those parishes, in those pews, in those councils, pushing on the pastors, the bishops, and refusing to allow the hippies and modernists to have unfettered reign.
I personally have watched how simply being the only one to receive on your knees and on the tongue can slowly start to embolden others to do the same. I've watched reverence slowly increase as people take the time to properly genuflect each time they pass the tabernacle, as they stay kneeling while the altar is cleared of our Lord rather than hurriedly sitting back the moment the tabernacle is closed, as they pray fervently before and after mass.
We can start the charge simply by example.
I'm begging anyone who wants the NO to be better, it starts with you. Be in those parishes and be the example and refuse to shy away from standing out for your reverence and proper decorum.
Nothing but respect brother and I 100% agree with you.
I hope one day to make it down to Springfield so we can meet.
I'm praying for you and the Church.
Pray that my example, and the examples of those like me, continue to help push parishes back into reverence and proper teaching and living.
This is a very good comment, and something I struggle with, I drive 15 minutes down the road to a different NO Mass. I just like the reverence, and there’s kneelers to receive.
I can't in good conscience take my family to a parish where even the catholics are an occasion for sin. The last time I went to my local NO, the female lectors and eucharistic ministers were almost scantily clad. There is no reverence there. Men go to mass in their sandals and shorts. This was in Calgary, AB. And its everywhere I go. The sermons are basically not even about the teachings of Jesus, near as I can tell. I tried this be "padre Pio and the example" route. I emailed my Bishop's office, my local pastor, addressed it to my priest. But nothing is ever done to address the concerns, we are simply told "'it may not be to your taste but try not to focus on the externals", utterly forgetting we are an incarnational religion. What else can I do? Is Mass supposed to be a "cross to bear"? This is ridiculous. On top of it, I'd like for the best possible conditions for my children to remain catholic as they grow up, and I seriously don't think it's going to happen there. With ever present and creeping humanism and even transhumanism in the secular culture, hypersexuality everywhere (and even permeating catholics in their behaviour and dress), I need church to be an oasis for my family. Reading the last Pope Francis homily and letter isn't going to keep my family catholic (telling us we need to change to more like the world in ways). So respectfully I say "No thank you" to the "be the example/ bear your cross route". Mass is not supposed to be penance.
With respect by leaving the NO and attending the TLM we are sending a clear message to those churches. The power balance favors the irreverent at those churches, voting with your feet and wallets gets their attention. Like any other business or entity the customer cannot be abused and insulted, the contempt from the hierarchy and local clergy will not be tolerated, look up the Ruthinian option that happened in the last century as to what can happen. Why , how and who is responsible for the irreverent NO mess has as far as I can tell has never been answered, that would be a good start to reforming this debacle.
St. Pope St. Pius X had a vision in which he said he saw a hoard of what looked like insects over St. Peter's Basilica. He was made to understand they were demons entering the Church. That vision has come true.
When I was a young boy, I remember the traditional mass. I especially remember the organ. Loud and powerful. The church I attend now is unfortunately novus ordo. There's an organ in our church that's hardly ever used. The choir is mostly guitars, tambourines, kumbaya music. One day an organist played at one of the masses. She played, Tocatta and Fugue in D minor by Sebastian Bach. People freaked out when they heard it. They were not expecting that. People were wondering what was going on. I love it. It took me back to my youth. I agree with you 100%. We need to go back to the Latin Mass.
The reverent Novus Ordo masses are beautiful but incredibly rare, I have only been to one parish that celebrates it like this and it's Our Lady of Corpus Christi. God bless the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity.
Our mass is like that. Ad orientum, gregorian chant, Latin in the Mass, smells/bells, communion rails, all of it. I'm within 15 mins of 3 TLMS, and as much as I love the TLM, our NO is just as beautiful as all of them.
@@jacobwoods6153 Deo Gratias.
I wish it was like that at my parish. I try my best to help make it more traditional but my responsibility is my vocation as husband and father.
I know my parish priest means well, I hate how there are lay councils to boss priests around.
@beatlecristian There was a meeting at another local parish where I live and it's absolutely gorgeous... comparable to something you'd see in Europe and they asked how do we get more young people to come to our parish (theyre the typical NO) and my buddy (whos late 20s) as well as a couple other young adults told them by being traditional... They didn't like it, LOL. It's crazy to me, our NO is standing room only and we are 2 mins away from this other parish so they're familiar with us, yet, they refuse to do what works.
The problem is that the Novus Ordo is designed so that there are options to make it reverent or not. So even if you dind a reverend mass ine day, there’s no guarantee it will be like that next week
@henryvonblumenthal7307 There were irreverent TLM's prior to Vatican 2 in that priests would just blow through the liturgy so I think it depends more on the priest celebrating it. The masses we have on Sundays are consistently gorgeous. If more priests were trained to celebrate it correctly and the liturgical abuses were cracked down on we would have a LOT fewer people complaining and it's a valid criticism of the Church to not put up with the abuses. I'm a Trad I love the TLM but I do believe the way out of this liturgical mess is the reverent NO. I could go to an institute of Christ the King, an FSSP or a Byzantine liturgy and I still choose the reverent NO. It's up there with all of them.
I too agree with the idea that thr Novus Ordo Mass should be corrected. However, I know several people, my mother and my in-laws included, who for sure practiced the Latin Mass before the 2nd. Vatican Council, but they either don't even remember it or seem to prefer the Novus Ordo Mass for some reason. The biggest problem I see with the Novus Ordo Mass, and you could say it's a summary of most things mentioned, is the HUGE lack of reverence in Church these days. Very few people, if any at all, genuflect. People sit and talk as if they were at a park, instead of inside a Church, which is SUPPOSED to be a place of silence, reflection, and contemplation. I find it extremely difficult to concentrate on prayer before Mass begins, or even during communion, as people just sit and talk. It's really out of control. No reverence during the readings, they have anybody just go up and read the daily Mass readings, and they don't even know how to pronounce names or take the time to read, they just rush through it like it's a chore. I see people sitting anyway they want in the pews...i remember when i went to Catholic School, the nuns taught us how to sit and how to ACT when inside the church and during Mass. No putting your your arms or feet up, chewing gum, talking, none of that. You are in the presence of GOD. Children now are NOT taught these things, and their parents allow them to do whatever they want before, during, and after Mass. It is really, really sad and disheartening.
The only way the novus ordo can be fixed is to abolish it.
Do you think that will happen after the Chastisement?
@@beatlecristian Yes. Our Lady of Akita told us that after the Chastisement, what is rotten will fall and will never rise again.
Plus, the Novus Ordo detracts from God's glory, so he's not going to let it stand forever. After the Chastisement, the Church is supposed to rebuild more glorious than it's ever been.
Amen to that!
Amen. Other than the very few reverent NO Masses, the NO is so broken that it cannot be fixed.
And I'm so tired of hearing "well it's valid." That's a very low bar and my answer to that is "sure it's valid, but is it worthy."
@@jeffreyschmitz8375I'm stealing that worthy line , good post.
I’m new to Catholicism, not even a Catechumen yet but I’ve already attended 2 Masses, 1 Vigil Mass, and several hours at Adoration. Here’s my take:
Before being interested in Catholicism, I read about how Thomas Aquinas couldn’t get through a single mass without weeping. Then I read Vatican 2 Documents about the Novus Ordo and it got me excited! It all sounded so great, so then I attended my first mass and… it was nothing like what I read about. It was the worst church experience I’ve ever had, and I was genuinely confused. I expected Latin Chant, Incense, Ad Orientum, reverence, you know, THE HOLY MASS! But instead I got the cringiest soul crushing church service and now I don’t know about this whole Catholicism thing. I’m pretty confused right now
I go to the SSPX and to the Novus Ordo, It’s funny you say that the SSPX it’s not being led by the Holy Spirit, come to Chile and find a Latin Mass, you will find like 2 priests that celebrate it underground, the FSSP came to Chile this year and tried to enter the Chilean Catholic Church, guess in which parish they were accepted… None! so they celebrated mass in a house chapel and then left, the hierarchy didn’t want them here, yet the SSPX has been able to teach catholicism and tradition since the 80s here in Chile, guiding people to avoid sinful lives, and to pursue holiness…
We are in the situation of the parable of the prodigal son; party time, and the best sacrificed meal to the kid that did everything wrong before coming back (novus ordo party) and then the older son bitter with the whole situation because he has been doing the hard work all his life and there was never a party time for him, just sacrifice (Traditionalist)… We just need the merciful father to unite both brothers, both ends of the spectrum.❤ I try my best, that’s why I attend both, to see how can this begin to reconcile.
The music in the NO is horrible
We have a cathedral and 2 smaller churches where I live. I love our cathedral, the music liturgy is awesome. In one of the other churches it isn't, it has a real modern, almost protestant vibe.
I remember you mentioning that you lived in the Springfield, MO area? If youre ever up in Kansas City go to the 9am on Sunday at Our Lady of Good Counsel.
My son is moving up there, ill let him know, and ill check it out when I go up there
Some parishes HAVE worked to fix Norvus Ordo. Mine is one such. We have brought back Latin and Traditional elements while keeping the main Mass in the vernacular. God WANTS the congregation to be able to understand what is going on after all! We also have a traditional 1962 Missal Latin Mass. Which is restricted to our Mission church by the order of the Bishop unfortunately. Two priests are responsible for four churches in Ironton and Lawrence County, Ohio.
If Blaise Cupich allows crazy clown Masses, then don't scream at me for going to the SSPX. Just sayin.✝️☦️
The most reverent Novus Auto mass at I currently attend is the one that was written by Pope Benedict for the Anglicann priests who wished to convert to Catholicism.
Created in 2012, The Orinariate of the Chair of St. Peter is in full communion with the Catholic church. They are under the direction of Bishop Steven Lopes and headquartered in Houston Texas.
Their parishes are located throughout the United States and Canada.
Yes, you are right. The Anglican ordinariate is a Novus Ordo mass, and filled with the same kind of people that make up the Latin mass communities.
Its, sort of, the Latin mass in English.
Communion on the tongue. The bread is dipped in the wine first.
We have an ordinariate community in my area. The priest is very good. Not heterical at all, and gives good homilies.
Ive gone a few times, and I really want to like the liturgy. But for me its kind of like the new Beatles song. Its ok. All necessary parts are there, but it just seems manufactured. And lets face it, its not really a Beatles song. The possibility of a new Beatles song died with John Lennon.
Also, I discovered Catholic tradition in the Latin mass. And its were I feel the most comfortable.
But I have respect for ordinariate and those who attend. You guys are doing it right.
For me its strictly a matter of preference.
Yes, but nowhere near southern Indiana or I would be there in a heartbeat.
I wish that the Church would go back to how it use to be. Sure, it had its problems no doubt but at least 95% of Catholics actually believed instead of now. I hope this Pope isn't the last and I hope that the restoration period is true. But we shall find out, Vivo Christo Rey.
Excellent! Amen
While it would be nice to reform the Novus Ordo, just remember what happened the last time someone tried to reform the Catholic Church.
I like this talk. It resonates.
Sedevacantist say the Sacraments are invalid in N.O. That is a critical issue.
There are arguments about it all; I need a clearing house for clarity on things Catholic Church. We're talking about an eternal afterlife; what is the truth about these issues?
@@thisisturok1084a sedevacantist "bishop"? Pass
The sedevacantists are 100% wrong.
You either submit to the roman pontiff or you are just a protestant that puts tradition on a ludricous pedestal that protestants do with sola scriptura.
I'm blessed to currently attend a Novus Ordo mass that isn't so modernised. The Priest's sermon after the Gospel has been read has always been about what was read; outside politics or person politics don't get mentioned. We've got a Tabernacle and an alter, but also have an altergirl and Lay Eucharistic ministers so it's not all so great.
Our faith is to form our politics. Which should be conservative. And just about abortion. But how we let charity help those who are in need. Government should be out of our lives
It’s hard to argue against this premise.
Im a boomer but novas ordo makes me puke,but im Orthodox but was raised catholic.
Your best video so far. One thing that is disagreeable is that the NO are splintering too into many sects too.
I would love to go to a Latin mass, but I live in a remote area and Novus Ordo is all I've got. Our local mass is pretty decent at least and doesn't go too crazy, but there is a very noticeable dearth of young people there.
Amen.
This is an interesting video with numerous outstanding points. The hypocrisy of the "recover from tradition" groups is indeed amazing and outrageous. (As far as the "reverent Novus Ordo" goes, it is indeed rare. In my diocesan area, they had maybe 8 out of 300 parishes with a more conservative Novus Ordo, maybe 2 of those 8 which still used the altar rails. They might have 1 parish with a "Tridentine vestment" looking very traditional looking Novus Ordo. Such a parish in a diocese would typically be in an older urban "ghetto" area, and it would often be identified with some ethnicity (Polish, Irish, German) and retained for novelty purposes, or to keep a few people in the Vatican II sect and donating.). But I do have a few disagreements or issues to raise with this video. You say you count non-Catholics, people you describe as "not as Catholics", as Christian brothers. That is actually major heresy my friend. Have you read Unam Sanctam ? The "wide tent" you suggest is indeed "to a fault". The definition of "Protestants" is people who protest against the Catholic Church, and who obstinately reject the papacy. Not one single one of the people who die as actual Protestants can get to heaven. That's the truth. To suggest a wider tent is to go against numerous infallible papal teachings. Now, it is possible that someone, let's say an infant, could be validly baptized in a Presbyterian building by a Presbyterian minister. That infant would not be a Protestant, but rather would be a Catholic. That infant could grow up attending the Presbyterian building, but would continue to be a Catholic until he (at some point after the age of reason) obstinately denies a deeper dogma (or denies a basic dogma). Another thing you said in the video is that "the Magisterium is not doing its job". The truth is that the Magisterium cannot fail to do its job. You also said "the mainstream Church is not teaching the authentic Catholic Faith" and even "undermines" that Faith. The Catholic Church cannot fail to teach the authentic Faith and it cannot undermine the Faith. What you said actually proves sedevacantism. Why? Because it proves that "the mainstream Church" is not the Catholic Church. Rather, it's a different church. It's a sect.
Charity trumps Obedience. Just ask St Martin De Porres.
You ask "where is a reverent N.O. Mass?" Go to the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament in Hanceville AL. It will blow you away.
There’s the True Church and then there’s the ape of the church. Judge them by their fruits.
I’ll be honest most of the abuses like “rock music” at mass or heretical homilies are more of a US problem. Go to a catholic country in Europe or go to a Church in Africa, those liturgical abuses are very less common. True, the NO of today is not the NO instituted at VII, but still, y’all need to take care of that.
I could not agree with you more. Thank you again.
And it bothers me to no end when people who attend, eastern Catholic churches, try to relate to the rest of us. In my opinion, they should have no opinion in regards to the traditional Latin mass in the traditionalist movement. Or at least keep it to themselves.
everything is so far gone, so out of control, and for so long. the bulk of priests are entrenched in the current liturgical Miasma of what used to be the Latin Rite. i think the situation is hopeless and will take a century or two to fix
You are absolutely right!!!
The SSPX and SSPV do not have the guidance of the Holy Spirit? If not who is at the Rutter, guiding the laity to their salvation?
Samuel 6. Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. Then the anger of the Lord was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him there for his error; and he died there by the ark of God... 1 Cor. 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep. (Die)
God is the same yesterday today and tomm. My God would never ever allow billions of dirty nasty steering wheel hands touch the Holy Eucharist for it is God Himself. Talk about not discerning! IF the NO was valid there would be catastrophe. No way God allows this blasphemy. All the evidence points to invalid for our own good. How it was written.. ok.. How it is practiced no way.
The catastrophe is on the horizon. These past decades have displayed God’s incredible patience and mercy.
Thanks for the video...
Great comments
Thank you. You are calm and fair-minded about a very difficult topic.
Well played ❤❤❤❤❤.
You are right on, 90%.
Ever since I left the Novus ordo and joined the SSPX I've noticed that a lot too. I have a lot of people on Twitter and stuff that have a bad case of SSPX derangement syndrome and it turns out that a lot of those people turn out to be trads as well that go to the other trad groups and a lot of them hate the society for whatever reason
We are building and they are closing down Prepare the forts they are going to sweet-talk us
Great video.
Yes!!
So is the Novus Ordo your average mass at most churches?
Yes, novus ordo misse put into effecr by paul 6th in 1969
I wonder if I’ve ever not been to a Novus Ordo mass. Just about all of them are the same. The one that I’ve been to that possibly isn’t is Old St. Mary’s in Cincinnati. The church looks very traditional and it’s a historic German church with with a traditional setting, very beautiful, and a lot of statues. It is operated by the Cincinnati Oratory. They have a low Latin, sung Latin , German , and English masses. I went to the German Mass once and the Priest faced the altar and we went up to the front , kneeled and received the Eucharist the traditional way. I have a video of the church on my channel if you want to see it.
Ok Ill check it out
Enjoy
I can tell you where a reverent Norvus Ordo Mass is located: Holy Rosary Parish in Houston, TX. It's run by the Dominican order
Remember 'mother earth ' ?
Amen. The ma sons now run the church now and are deliberately driving it into the ground
What Heresy might I ask is the Pope guilty of?
They shouldn't let it get worse than it is.
More chanting, less singing. At least try to keep it solemn and dignified.
Pray That I Will Pray The Rosary The Divine Mercy Prayer To St Michael Stations Of The Cross Memorare To St Joseph Poor Souls In Purgatory All My Priest Friends For The Pope That My Belongings Property Life Health Will Be Blessed
The reason sspx is building churches is because they are ready to fight many of their bishops like Lefebvre have the rampant lion on their bishop coat of arms Williamson had a good one
Why don't you people just convert to orthodoxy? That is the most traditional church (and the true one), and the alexandria documents which were approved by francis prove as much.
The problems that caused the traditionalist movement are the traditionalists. Hope this helps!
+JMJ. It helps demonstrate the self worship and presumptuousness imbedded in the NO. I envision you wearing flip flops to Church as emblematic of your casualness, irreverence and presumption. Dominus vobiscum.
I go to the Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter. I prefer the FSSP, but the OCSP is the closest most reverent Mass in my area.
Based
Judica me, Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta: ab homine iniquo et doloso erue me.
U need to find the canon that turns the species into an oblation I luckily got to see one it came in the reform of the missal in the summorum pontificum period half the priests don't know it's ther it's has "take this holy oblation"which they tried to delete that's thanks to benadict 16who tried to make one right out of 2 but he was carrying too much mental strain the homosexual crises had a psychological effect on him which showed so for our holy father who a bare minimum of cardinals showed up to see was apaling but we need to make sure the documents he wrote we are yet to see get out to us on the homosexual crises which they don't want out
10:03 sadly this part is true I agree. However I’m not going to ignore potential schism brewing in the hearts of lots at this moment, perhaps the way to address shaky hearts is to “fix” the mass maybe, only one thing is for certain we need revival.
The people you say are brewing schisms aren't the schismatics. The people in favor of the radical changes from the last few decades are the ones in schism.
"Mainstream" Church, wrong.
so you're response is: I'm right, you're wrong. make the Novus Ordo a mirror of TLM then I'll go to it. the SSPX tells its parishioners to knowingly commit sin of they can't find a TLM, and it's okay to miss mass so long as you pray the rosary. I'm sorry dude, but you're saying that your stubbornness in the TLM overrides valid Vatican approved Novus Ordo. by what authority do you have to say the NO need to be a carbon copy of the TLM to be v valid worship? I used to like your channel. but I'm just one dude who won't watch your videos anymore. peace be with you my catholic brother, I hope you can get over your condemnation of other catholics who don't do what you tell them to do.
EWTN! 🙏
You know, have you considered Orthodoxy if pope Francis is a legitimate pope and isn't infallible?
Who said hes not infallible?
You obviously dont understand papal infallibility. It doesn't mean he cant be wrong, only under certain circumstances.
We dont the freedom from God to just leave the one true church just because we dont like something.
@imisschristendom5293 Council of Nicea and Constantinople which established no one can add to or take away from the Creed and because you have a pope in 1054 who added to the creed, every pope that affirms the filioque after that is a heretic. Therefore popes are not infallible. And if the papal dogmas are false by the Canons of the eccumenical councils, then you have no rational choice except to become Orthodox as the logical conclusion as the only other church with Apostolic Succession and valid sacraments.
Not having this conversation here.
See my video: why its the Orthodox who are in schism.
czcams.com/video/crZsVv1772E/video.htmlsi=LX3LwzX2b0kpedU3
Ill give you a hint. The council of florence.
You guys agreed to everything including papal primacy and the filioque
Dude that is not what in 1054, and filioque was added way before then
@@imisschristendom5293 You should debate Jay Dyer on this issue.
I agree with a lot of this but must say NO homilies are better (for what I’ve seen)
But what if someone said this -
Fix the Novus Ordo first, then you can join a schismatic group like the SSPX.
From other videos I remember you mentioning that you became Catholic rather recently. How much time/effort have you spent checking out different local parishes and finding ways to help out?
The SSPX isn’t schismatic. Even Pope Francis describes its adherents- in writing - as “faithful “
Schism is "refusal of subjection to the supreme pontiff" (Canon 751)
In the letter accompanying Traditionis Custodes (2021), Pope Francis wrote about "healing of the schism with the movement of Mons. Lefebvre."
@@nealkriesterer They do not refuse subject to the Supreme pontiff... do some basic homework, my friend.
Ok then, could you give some examples of times they have obeyed The Pope?
Novies are Lutheran, just give us the Old Mass and leave us alone!
Do to the last statements made by anti-Pope Francis, I will be leaving the Church until such time as Francis is excommunicated and gone and the garbage in VII is done away with.
Thisvis very dangerous and could send you to hell.
God wants you to be Catholic, let him deal with Francis.
You can't fix Novus Ordo. In the Novus Ordo you are not truly worshiping God properly.
Yes. We should restore the Mass to the way Jesus celebrated the first Mass at the last Supper; in Latin, with his back to the 12 and communion on the tongue. O by the way I suppose they sung the common Jewish worship psalms in Gregorian chant in Latin as well. O and don't forget all the vestments he wore! Novus ordo is at least closer to the histrorical Last Supper than the stylized TLM. And yes it can should conducted reverently.
Realize that orthopraxi, the idea we must go back to antiquity for our liturgy has been condemned by the church.
The Latin mass, as well as the other rites other than NO developed over time. Ad orientem began because mass was said on the tombs of the martyrs in the catacombs, and the fairhful would gather behind them.
Also, this idea that it must be in the common tongue has never been the case. The earliest liturgies, other than the actual last supper, were in Greek. Even the readings were in Greek because the church used the Septuagint for the old testament, and the new testament was written in Greek.
But Greek was not the common language of a lot of people.
yes, well, the so-called return to the early Church is one of the oft-given reasons why we have all the crap we have now, and Faith and Piety have virtually disappeared. Sarcasm doesn't help
Rather, FIX fundamentalist Rad Trads.
Boycot the Novo's ordo
Stop using the word "traditionalist", use the word fundamentalist. Catholics do not condone Lgbtq whatsoever. Knock off your divisive deception.
And how many are zionist?
Its easy to point fingers and blame this and that for everything that's wrong. All our sins collectively have contributed to this diabolical madness we're living through, make reparation for your role in it, and do the five first Saturday devotion perpetually.
I understand your point but how did my sins contribute to the Freemasonic infiltration of the Church?
Most Catholics can't do the first Saturday devotion since confession is after Mass instead of before it.
All ways but Rome are wrong.
Just saw an article that says transgenders can get baptized now 😑
There is something so unrelentingly aggressive about this video. And i would bet that you are a catholic convert from Protestantism.. it’s so weird how militaristic converts approach the church.. you sound very pressed and there’s nothing convincing about your video.. you kind of just aired your grievances. It sounds more like a tantrum than anything.
Paul was the first concert
Convert
OK, so how should we act ? Should we accept everything from the hierarchy and local religious ignoring faith and reason ?. That mindset gave us the scandals and the other problems we have.
I am seeing so much hate and division from TLM Catholics. You (a lay person)are telling the church what to do!!! Wow arrogant as HELL!
The reason why any group freaks out over their more conservative members and permits the more liberal ones is a subconscious feeling of guilt for not being held to the higher standard. At least in my opinion.
Yep. People don't like being exposed, for hypocrisy, and people who live up to their own standards expose the hypocrisy in others.
NO, Catholic in origin. Protestant in nature
Amen.