Prophecy & Foresight in Middle-earth - Building a World
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- Prophecy and foresight, the ability to scry into the future through one’s wisdom, are powerful abilities within Tolkien’s world of Middle-earth! Today, let’s examine some of the many instances of it and see what we can learn about it as a concept within Tolkien’s worldbuilding. Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts about this in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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I'm prophesying that there is chocolate cake in my future.....
It's was delicious
Your future sounds bright!
Hope it’s not thrown in your face…
Hear Hear!
German chocolate with peanut butter icing.
Just like Gandalf said in the Fellowship of the Ring: “difficult to say…always in motion the future is…train yourself to let go of all you fear to use”
"You know this. You have forseen it."
The future can be a dangerous thing. We mortals were not made to know it. At least not entirely.
But getting a glimpse every now and then moves the future towards what was meant to be.
Some words bring about what life itself cannot do on its own.
Luthien's to Beren is one of my Favorites: "You must choose, Beren, between these two: to relinquish the quest and your oath and seek a life of wandering upon the face of the earth; or to hold to your word and challenge the power of darkness upon its throne. But on either road I shall go with you, and our doom shall be alike.”
Man, the many Prophecies Tolkien and Christopher did it's Incredible *Or Terrible* seeing how they end up!!!
Thanks Mellon for another Great Video, *I say this all the time, but I do mean it, thanks for Interesting Videos Topics* Until Durin's Bane with the One Ring...Marion Baggins Out!!!
Will be watching how another story I love, Kind Off has This!!!
Wow that first image is really beautiful
I do like that such things are not set in stone, that what actually happens still depends on what individuals choose to do. I also like that prophecies can be misunderstood, such as with Glorfindel's prophecy about the Witch King.
It's like reading sheet music while the band is playing alchemy. You'll get the key and time signature, but you'll have no idea what the drum fills will be, what the solo will be like or if the vocalist will stage dive.
Éowyn’s full dialogue with the WitchKing was monumental in the books and was from Glorfindel; the elvish prince’s prophesy/Curse/Oath upon the WitchKing one of the time he and one of the Numenorean kings(Eärnur or Arvedui) was chasing away said WitchKing back towards Angmar(Yes. He was afraid of Glorfindel Of The Golden Flower very much. Same with Galadriel too I might add. He wouldn’t even approach lothlorien. He & his armies would always avoid her lands to the point of risking taking longer roads around her lands) Éowyn: “Be gone, foul Dwimmerlaik, Lord of carrion. Leave the dead in peace!”
Lord of the Nazgûl: “Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey or he will slay thee in turn!”
Éowyn: “Do what you will. I will hinder it, if I may!”
Lord of the Nazgûl: “Hinder me? Thou fool. Dost thou not know the prophecy? ‘No living man may hinder me.’ “
Éowyn: “But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn am I. You stand between me and my Lord and kin. Be gone for living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him!”
Being severely injured by The Black Breath(plague type poison had taken over Eowyn & her Hobbit friend, Éowyn was immediately healed by Aragorn, who saved her just in time before she certainly would have died of her wounds. She remained behind to heal, while also meeting and falling in love with Faramir. At Éowyn's behest, Merry was made a knight by her brother, the newly-named king of Rohan. After the War of the Ring, Éowyn married Faramir just outside of Ithilien and became its lady while Faramir became its king. Together, they had one child together named Elboron and a grandson named Barahir.
And the dramatic silence from the WitchKing is palpable in the books.
Interesting thing too is that Rohirric women have fought beside their men for a long time. It’s just this importance of this battle didn’t want to risk harming the future generations and to protect the women so the significance was that this woman was the only one on Pellenor Fields that day!
If I get it correctly foresight is at least sometimes a tool by the Valar to help the free peoples of Middle Earth. Farmer and Boromir's dream is such an intend to help
Farmer? Haha
Faramir had many. And a few more I’ve even designed myself that really enriches the legendarium even more but they are visions and dreams that are more kept to himself as they are meant to be that way. If you want to hear about them I’d love to share. ❤
@@Makkaru112 Yes, I wrote it on my phone and it is sadly not fluent in Tolkien's works.
Thank you
Your descriptions and ideas are very important useful and agreeable always a pleasure to watch and listen to your videos is this the end or just the beginning.. thank you
I read that their pure power & light from Galadriel’s hair is what is the main reason the trees are revived. Working with Nienna & Yavannah. Her being Vanyar has her this right to do this.
Cirdan gave Gandalf the ring of fire saying he would have need for it.
Tolkien's use of prophecies aren't a deus ex machina like later and modern stories. What a well needed contrast.
You just ticked off Rowling.
Someone give this guy a promotion!
Thanks for answering this question Yoystan cause I’ve always wondered how future telling works in middle earth
Great stuff man! Thank you :)
Thank you!
I think it’s tricky sometimes to discern between being foresighted and simply having great wisdom. It does seem indeed that in middle earth oaths curses and prophecies tend to have much more prominent presence. Almost existing as the main source of “magic”.
9:47 I think that what Galadriel told Sam was important. The mirror shoes things that MIGHT come to be but only if the viewer strayed from their path to try to prevent them.
The "Grandfather" clause says you can't change the present by changing something on the past. Maybe that is true for the future as well?
I like how you said in your closing about “relying on our own foresight”…which I think is important too…like being aware of our sixth sense.
A nice what if video would be what if Arvedui became that great leader of such a new realm? that’d be Ike another revival and stoic existence of Númenorean Culture etc! It still doesn’t have to harm much of Aragorn’s arc or even the Éowyn stuff if things are done right ❤
In terms of foresight, what I believe happens is that at certain moments, one's heart becomes attuned to a part of the Music, which is Arda, and Arda is the Music. After the War of Wrath, for instance, Eonwe actually taught the Dunedain as they prepared to sail to Numenor. That's why Erendis' mother had a gift of foresight, even though she wasn't of the Royal House. Prophecy, on the other hand, I believe is Mandos speaking through the prophets and seers. Prophecies are almost never straightforward, and often have multiple meanings. It is only when the Valar themselves speak, as Mandos when pronouncing the Doom, or Ulmo speaking to both Turgon and Tuor, where one gets a "set" fate and the choice to follow or not follow. This is especially true for the Elves, to whom the Music is Fate, whereas Men make their own fates, but those fates, in the ultimate end, will redound to the Glory of Iluvatar.
Great Video as always!
The hour of the Shire folk saving Middle Earth that no one could have foreseen, until the hour.
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf
The fact Hopi prophesies are coming true yet again just makes Tolkiens books even more powerful as they are meant to be revival of ancient knowledge/cultures and languages of so many countries. Especially those of the Anglo Saxon people and culture before it hammered by Norman invasions in 1610…
1066
😊
Another great insightful video!
👍🏻👍🏻
🤘😌🤘
One of my favorite prophecies is the prophecy of Aragorn on Gandalf he said you wear going into the monitor or I fear for you the most something along those lines Then you may not make it through and he didn't well he did and he didn't he didn't he died but he's brought back by error But I think that's one of the most strongest premonitions or prophecies in Lord of the Rings given by Arab or.
When will Zewood do a full Beleriand map and one of the complete map put into one?
You probably could have done a video for each Age.
I prophesied that Amazon will continue to fall into oblivion as PJ & others continue to make great works of art thst exalt Professor Tolkiens scholarly work to revive ancient knowledge, languages and cultures from several countries etc. ❤
The Music of the Ainur is the destiny and timeline of the universe. Elves and humans are elements independent of the Ainur, incorporated into the Music of the Ainur by Eru himself. Insight or foresight may be a blessing that comes from the creation of these beings and is inscribed in their souls. In the Ainur, the situation is slightly different. Since they are divine beings who perform music themselves, they have the opportunity to make inferential predictions to the extent they understand music. Their ability to foresee comes from this situation itself.
Little disappointed that in a video about foresight you didn't mention two of the biggest examples. Gandalf's foresight of Bilbo's involvement in the "Quest for Erebor" and then in the Lotr his knowledge about Gollum following the Fellowship but letting him be, knowing that he still would have an important role in the future.
Denethor was way more noble & mighty in the books. contended wills with Sauron for decades nonstop & was never broken nor could Sauron alter what Denethor would see in the palantir even then he couldn’t control what Denethor had control of which was how he CHOSE to INTERPRET the visions given to him. Using it all to Gondor’s advantage! ❤ he also lit the beacons and got the women & children far away from the city longer ahead of time. So the movie butchered him as well as faramir but they didn’t butcher faramir as badly thankfully. He could have been shown to give Pippen his newest order to light the beacons so then it wouldn’t change the scene much at all as presented! The story here is Faramir’s birth ended up killing his mother Finduilas(named after an elvish princess from the era of Children Of Hùrin was set in);she was a Numenorean woman of the Faithful which her ancestors survived the Cataclysm of Númenor by the way! He was hurt deeply by her death and ontop of that Faramir had the likeness both in temperament as well as his appearance/bearing so he ways reminded of his wife over and over again by Faramir who was just like her, and all it took was a simple look or what-have-you to drive the knife in deeper into his heart about his wife. But also Aragorn when he went by the name gifted to him as Thorongil Denethor’s father basically overshadowing him from his own father so he is as psychology goes: treated Boromir the same way his father treated Aragorn/Thorongil. Note that Boromir and Faramir are half Númenorean which is a big thing as far as the legendarium goes! And it’s something to note that he treated Boromir like his father treated the clandestine Aragorn as Thorongil.
Denethor actually did many things the movie shows him not doing or neglecting. He was VERY competent and mighty in many craft and (even a lore-master to a degree). He had quite alot of mental and “magical” might which is why he could contend with Sauron too without being harmed in there process in any way!
As Celegorn, I, Celerie Kemble, took Feanor's Oath.
Good video
I’m surprised you haven’t even mentioned Ulmo, who even Eru said had the greatest foresight of all the Valar because of his chosen element: water.
Question, the bit in the Lord of the Rings films where Elrond tells Arwen what will happen to her after Aragorn passes away should she choose a mortal life, is that Elrond forseeing it or him making a prophecy?
Normally we'd think of the 'Power of Prophecy' as 'The power to predict the far-future'. Is there any cultural idea (which maybe Tolkien was trying to leverage), in which the 'Power of Prophecy' is 'to Shape the far-future'? I ask because long ago I had a Nordic-Scholar GM for a Ragnarok-themed VTM game who incorporated a mechanism whereby prophecy worked this latter way, i.e. A prophecy of the far future supernaturally 'attracts' that prophesied outcome.
😍😍✅✅
Is Dagor Dagorath canon?
Yup. Turin literally slays Morgoth. Fitting. Fitting indeed. The remaking of the world with all children of illuvatar ties to Nienna. Sister of Melkor and Manwë. GirlNextGondor epic deep dive into Nienna video. You’ll love it. tie it with Her necromancy video which also shows more of the nature of middle earth and the elves and even the difference of death between elves and men.
Not Finduiluss. Finn-Dui-Lass😅❤
I dislike the storytelling device when a main character is given a peek at their future and they latch onto it, and their desperation to avoid it is the cause of that foretold misfortune. It might wow a younger reader but once a person has seen it, it becomes less interesting, and for adult readers, such a device is disappointing.