Dr. Michael Brown and James Michael-Smith Debate Jesus, Scripture, Israel, & Palestine
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 04. 2014
- Description: This debate was held at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary (Charlotte, NC) on April 10, 2014, between Dr. Brown and Gordon Conwell grad James-Michael Smith. For Dr. Brown's resource list, go to askdrbrown.org/handout-for-isr...
Wow! I started to follow Dr Brown around December 12, 2013, as a result of the John MacArthur Strange Fire controversy. And I have learned so much, so many controversies I did not even know existed. This is one of the best and most difficult of his discussion/debates. Great stuff!
Dr. Brown won the debate at around the 25 minute mark.
Here's the HISTORY: The name Palestine refers to a region of the eastern Mediterranean coast from the sea to the Jordan valley and from the southern Negev desert to the Galilee lake region in the north. The word itself derives from "Plesheth", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine." Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The Philistines reached the southern coast of Israel in several waves. One group arrived in the pre-patriarchal period and settled south of Beersheba in Gerar where they came into conflict with Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael. Another group, coming from Crete after being repulsed from an attempted invasion of Egypt by Rameses III in 1194 BCE, seized the southern coastal area, where they founded five settlements (Gaza, Ascalon, Ashdod, Ekron and Gat). In the Persian and Greek periods, foreign settlers - chiefly from the Mediterranean islands - overran the Philistine districts. ~ From the fifth century BC, following the historian Herodotus, Greeks called the eastern coast of the Mediterranean "the Philistine Syria" using the Greek language form of the name. In AD 135, after putting down the Bar Kochba revolt, the second major Jewish revolt
against Rome, the Emperor Hadrian wanted to blot out the name of the Roman "Provincia Judaea" (province of the Jews) and so renamed it "Provincia Syria Palaestina", the Latin version of the Greek name and the first use of the name as an administrative unit. The name "Provincia Syria Palaestina" was later shortened to Palaestina, from which the modern, anglicized "Palestine" is derived. This name was meant to destroy the Jewish pride; it was a specific slam and denunciation of the long-term residents of the land. The Jews were there first, but the Romans were determined to make the land their own and thus renamed it. (Think of the book and movie “Ben-Hur” and the push to conquer that nation - the Romans had taken over, and a renaming of the area suited their purpose.) This remained the situation until the end of the fourth century, when in the wake of a general imperial reorganization Palestine became three Palestines: First, Second, and Third. This configuration is believed to have persisted into the seventh century, the time of the Persian and Muslim conquests. ~ The Christian Crusaders employed the word Palestine to refer to the general region of the "three Palestines." After the fall of the crusader kingdom, Palestine was no longer an official designation. The name, however, continued to be used informally for the lands on both sides of the Jordan River. The Ottoman Turks, who were non-Arabs but religious Muslims, ruled the area for 400 years (1517-1917). Under Ottoman rule, the Palestine region was attached administratively to the province of Damascus and ruled from Istanbul. The name Palestine was revived after the fall of the Ottoman Empire in World War I and applied to the territory in this region that was placed under the British Mandate for Palestine. The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Roman "Palaestina." Israel was originally Judea, and the name was changed by the Romans - to be hateful. There is no "original" Palestine - and the Arabs/Muslims were not and are not the original inhabitants. ~ Folks need to see the DVD "Israel Indivisible," a documentary which offers an in-depth focus on the historical, archeological, legal and biblical rights of the Jewish people to their ancient homeland. It provides a compelling narrative on historical and archaeological evidence to prove the biblical authenticity of Israel’s ownership of the land. The film also exposes the legal basis for Israel’s rights to the Land, from the Balfour Declaration to the San Remo Resolution, sometimes called the "birth certificate" of the state of Israel. With the joint resolution passed by both houses of Congress in 1922 to the United Nation’s resolutions, all these documents and events stand as legal witnesses affirming the ancient homeland of Israel. Unfortunately, world leaders refuse to recognize these important documents that defend Israel’s rights to the Land because it doesn’t fit their ultimate agenda: to divide the Land God calls His.
Dr Brown is such a gentleman! I am not saying his opponent is not, I am just delighted to see a Christian leader debate so many opponents on so many varied topics and always be courteous, even when disagreeing.
People who disagree with him by falsely attacking him personally really irritate me (but I try to channel LOL joke his gracious spirit).
My favorite debate opponent to Dr Brown is Rabbi Shmuley!
Awesome job on this debate Dr Brown!!!!
This is the one area Dr Brown is weak on. James brilliantly exposed this. Dr Brown is one of my faves on debating Traditional Jewish Rabbis on many points but on this point and also Dr James White exposed him on the doctrine of election. It's so hard for a Messianic Jew to loosen their grip in the land promises... You'll have you land in the New Heavens and New Earth ;) Even Abraham wasn't looking for an earthly promise of land but a heavenly one. .
dr brown won that calvanism debater cmon
Dr. Brown bring many good explain to me about the early christianity Faith....
Thanks, Dr. Brown
This is a good hearted, a bit ignorant student learning from a well seasoned and studied teacher. Definitely just a discussion.
you got this DR.Brown!
Good discussion!
If they would realize the division of Israel (10 and 2), the issue is moot. They talk past one another.
“O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.”
Jeremiah 17:13 KJV
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”
John 7:38 KJV
We have to consider everything that the Apostles and Prophets proclaimed not just what the the Apostles declared.
EPHESIANS 2:20-having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21-in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22-in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
Around 28:00 Dr. Brown, you say Jesus won’t come until the welcoming of the Jews. So would you say that the return of Jesus (rapture) is not imminent but contingent on the national praise of Jews?
“Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.”
Romans 9:24-26 KJV
“But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;”
1 Corinthians 1:23 KJV
“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.”
Matthew 16:17-20 KJV
Have we forgotten??
Jeremiah 3:8
“And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.”
It would be so good and informative if this discussion was viewed through yet another "lens", as Dr. Laniak says, one concerning Israel's future through premillennial eyes. This view has good answers to many questions raised here, and Dr. Brown's views do seem to point this way, along with views of other well-known Jewish followers of Jesus such as Mitch Glaser.
After Jesus returns to Earth, His followers will be here with Him in their resurrected state, ON THE EARTH, not in heaven. Surely we are supposed to believe it when we say "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven." And surely Jesus' name Emanuel, "God with us", will be the same at His second coming as it was at His first coming. Jesus will be here with us, and His resurrected saints will "reign with Him for a thousand years" as read in Rev. 20.
All the Israelites who have rejected Christ will, in their un-resurrected state, after witnessing His spectacular and glorious return, surely recognize Him as the powerful Messiah they've been hoping for all these centuries. God will write His laws on their hearts of flesh and will make a new covenant with both the house of Israel and the house of Judah, just as he has already done with those of us who believe now. And the resurrected saints, those of us following Jesus today and throughout this age, will help show not only un-resurrected Israel, but all the other un-resurrected peoples of all the nations of the world, the truth of God's graciousness and love. We certainly will not be counted among the saints at that time if we hold Jews and other non-believers of today in contempt. No, we will have submitted ourselves to Jesus in this life today and have learned to genuinely pray for those who now reject Christ. Through Jesus, aided by His resurrected saints all over the world, the rest of the families of the earth will become blessed.
Ask yourself this: when do you suppose the "nations will go up to the house of the Lord and He will teach [them] His ways"? And when do you suppose they will "beat their swords and spears into plowshares and pruning hooks", and their tanks and artillery into tractors and reapers, "and not learn war anymore"? Knowing what we know about this evil world, that will never happen during this age. But the premillennial view provides sound and logical answer to these questions.
As Dr. Brown says, God is not finished with ethnic Israel, and the promises He made to their forebear Abraham will be kept, including the land promises. Otherwise God becomes a deceiver to Abraham, changing in mid-course His sworn oath and promise to him concerning his offspring. God is immutable. What He starts He will finish, in spite of those of His very children who at the moment are rejecting Him. With God all things are possible, and saving all ethnic Israel is well within His ability to perform. They might not be blessed to be in the "first resurrection" of Rev. 20, but He will not renege or change the promises He made to His faithful servant and friend Abraham. Their day will come in God's time, and the premillennial view - i.e. a simple and straightforward reading of Revelation 20 - provides a valid scenario for this happening.
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”
John 3:5-7 KJV
What is spiritual Israel? In Jeremiah, the new covenant is promised to Judah and Israel! God promises to never take back His promise to his chosen people--for that to happen, the sun, moon and stars would have to seek to exist. We Christians are a sect of Judaism, we are grafted into the commonwealth--grafting would not work if the original plant were destroyed.
Jeremiah 31:31-37
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.
Not brought up? What Jesus said to the woman at the well about worship !
“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:36-38 KJV
Man that’s a big leap in logic Brown is making right out the gate.. “this can ONLY be an act of god..” well, no it could literally be tons of things lol
Using "literally" figuratively is a leap in logic.
@@RichLuciano1 Pointing that out figuratively makes you a douche.
Not sure who among the reformers believed replacement theology, I have always understood it as, it has ALWAYS BEEN THE "CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE".. "ONE SEED who is Christ" .. "NOT the children of flesh who are sons of God"..
It has always been the children of the promise who are the true children of God.
John 16:23; Rom 9:8; Gal 3:26-29; 4:21-31; Act 3:22-23; 1Peter 2:9; Jesus words in "The Parable of the Tenants" says the kingdom of God will taken from the Jews, see Matt 21:33-46; NOTICE VERSE Matt 21:43;
It has always been the children of the promise who are the true children of God. Why does Paul write under divine inspiration, Rom 9:8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. Gal 3:26-29; Why does teach in Gal 4:21-31, that the fellow believers jews and gentiles who are members of God's Church that THEY are the Gal 4:27-28, "children of promise", and the unbelieving Jews will Gal 4:30 "SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN"
Jesus words in "The Parable of the Tenants" says the kingdom of God will taken from the Jews, see Matt 21:33-46; notice verse Matt 21:43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. This verse perfectly fits with what Peter said. Act 3:22 Moses said, 'The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. Act 3:23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people
“Behold, God is my salvation,
I will trust and not be afraid;
‘For Yah, the Lord, is my strength and song;
He also has become my salvation’” (Isaiah 12:2 NKJV). YAH is the name of salvation!
The Apostle Peter said, "...There is no other name..." (Acts 4:12). Therefore, abandon the counterfeit names, not REVEALED by the LORD, Jesus, Iesus, Iesous, and Yeshua is devoid of "the name which is above every name" (Philippians 2:9). The true name of salvation has "the name which is above every name, a name given to Moses, behold the name of YAH, the I AM. The very name {YAH=I AM} the Messiah claimed "the I AM" (HaYAH) in John 8:58. All peoples, tongues, and languages are to know the one name of Salvation: YAHSHUA (Philippians 2:11). Halleluyah, Praise YAH, Praise YAHSHUA! YAHSHUA is the embodiment of Israel, the Son of God. Pray that you know the one name of salvation revealed to us, for few there be that find it (Matthew 7:14).
SPANISH??? PLEASE
"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." Eph.2:12-13
Every Gentile need to pay attention to Peter's testimony which James cited in Acts 15:14 .." Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name." What is very important to note here is that, from that quote .." to take out of them a people for his name " simply mean that it is not for all the Gentiles. Though .many are called few are chosen. James went on quoting from the scriptures ,to state that it shall be (only)the Gentiles upon whom His name is called who shall be saved ..See Acts 15:17
Question for Michael Brown: Your argument hinges on Paul's apparent distinction between 'Israel' and the 'Church'. If so, is it possible that Paul could be incorrect based on incomplete information he had at the time. Let me explain: Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Jewish Temple which did eventually take place in 70AD. However, this event did not occur at the time of Paul epistles. It might've made sense for him to speak of 'Israel' since its ability to conduct its national traditional ceremonial sacrifices remained intact. But once the Temple was destroyed, don't you think if Paul observed this, that it would've altered his understanding of 'Israel' and the 'Church'?
No, because like the rest of the bible, the author is the holy spirit, not the person who penned the words. To understand this, you need a foundation of what the word says about the free gift of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues.
GiantsOLB53 Speaking in tongues? What does that have to do with understanding the bible?
Because speaking in tongues and the explanation of what it is why it is given to us etc. etc. are all found in the bible.
GiantsOLB53 I know that, but are you saying that only if you speak in tongues are able to understand the bible?
Also Israel is another way of saying the House of Jacob. Who is Jacob? Jacob is the son of Issac son of Abraham. Israel is not dependent on the temple. God was dependent on the temple in the old covenant because sin separated him from man and that's where he manifest himself on earth via the holy spirit back then. But with new dispensation that came with the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ God lives inside of our spirits now via the holy spirit. In other words, what does the temple have to do with the descendants of Jacob? The temple wasn't even constructed until the reign of king Solomon some 500 years after Israel became a nation. So your connection of temple=Israel is wrong, biblically and theologically incorrect.
Do you know the King of Glory that was sent to us by our loving heavenly Father.
John 5:43
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Acts 4:11-12 King James Version (KJV)
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Hebrews 1:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
1 Our Father, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, for whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a MORE EXCELLENT NAME than they.
Romans 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 And declared to be the Son of our Father with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Philippians 2:8-11 King James Version (KJV)
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the stake.
9 Because of this our Father also hath highly exalted him, and given him a NAME which is ABOVE every name:
10 That at the name of ( the King Of Glory ) every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that ( the King Of glory) is "KING", to the "GLORY" of His Father.
Revelation 3:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my Father, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the NAME of my Father, and the NAME of the city of my Father, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my Father: and I will write upon him my NEW NAME.
Revelation 14:1King James Version (KJV)
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's NAME written in their foreheads.
Acts 26:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the HEBREW LANGUAGE, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Psalm 68:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Sing unto our Father, sing praises to his NAME: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name YAH, and rejoice before him.
Proverbs 30:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his NAME, and what is his son's NAME? Tell me if you know. Matthew 21:42
The King of glory ( before resurrection morning while still here in the flesh ) saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is our Father's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye THINK ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Acts 17:2
And Saul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures DAILY, whether those things were so.
Romans 1:2
(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are ABLE to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in The King of Glory.
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Luke 24:25-27King James Version (KJV)
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe ALL that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not The King of Glory to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and ALL the prophets, he expounded unto them in ALL the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Isaiah 53 King James Version (KJV)
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of our Father revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he HAS borne OUR griefs, and carried OUR sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten by our Father, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for OUR transgressions, he was bruised for OUR iniquities: the chastisement of OUR peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and our Father hath laid on him the iniquity of us ALL.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased our Father to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of our Father shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear THEIR iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
2 Corinthians 5:18-21 King James Version (KJV)
18 And all things are from our Father, who hath reconciled us to himself by The King of Glory, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that our Father was in King of Glory, reconciling the world unto himself, "NOT" imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for The King of Glory, as though our Father did beseech you by us: we pray you in King of Glory's stead, be ye reconciled to our Father.
21 For our Father hath made him ( The King Of Glory) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we WOULD be made the righteousness of our Father in him.
Ps. 24:10 Who is the glorious King? The Eternal, Commander of heaven’s army, He is the glorious King.
facebook.com/Hallelu-YAHWEHSHUA-560548060673707/?ref=settings
The kjv never uses the word stake instead of cross. How deceptive
If you don't know Torah then you can _easily_ be lead astray. Yahweh open the eyes of Dr. Brown.
The Promise is to ONE SEED who is Christ.. Gal_3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. Peter said, A jewish Apostle said, Those who refuse to listen to Jesus are CUT OFF FROM GOD.. Act 3:22 Moses said, 'The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you.
Act 3:23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.'
+Bryan whyyouwanttoknow
The seed of Abraham is Christ and the church. If you be Christ's then are you Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.
Jr
Before these Jews came, who was in the land?
Because the Palestinians have been in the land for over 2000 years. All of the people didn't leave, they dispersed throughout the region. Their homes, olive groves and families were displaced. Before Joshua and Kaleb entered the land Cannonites were there.
Absurdity of absurdities. There was no place called Palestine or Palestina until the Romans, who renamed Israel and Jerusalem to punish the Israelis of the early 2nd century for rebelling against their occupiers. There were no Palestinians before this time. The Arab Israelis are not Palestinians. That is a label created to reframe the debate and initiate world-wide sympathy for the "victims" of Israeli "aggression".
Prior to the the children of Israel returning to their land that God promised them forever, the various Cannanite tribes lived their. They were not Arabs. Eventually, Israel was invaded by the Muslims, in time the land was laid to waste: swamps, empty villages, erosion, deforested; the land of milk and honey had become a wasteland. Only when the Jews returned, did the land flower again. Look at the other nations created at the time. Look at Jordan, a poor nation, nothing like the technological, agricultural and cultural flowering leading to prosperity for all people.
Since the Arabs only entered the land in numbers in circa 600-700 when they invaded Israel, they have less right to the land since the Jews were there continuously since Joshua and the Israelites entered in 1400 BC. That is a 2000 year precedence--in favor of the Jews.
+land o' liberty I'm actually embarrassed for the arabs in the levant. All of these nations are just fake identities that have no resonance with history. Transjordan, Iraq, Palestine? They're just Arabs who came to the levant from Arabia. Guess how many Palestinians know that their name is what that pagan romans gave to Judea after they drove out the jews. It must be comforting to a Muslim that their nation is just a fictitious pagan name to erase Israel from history.
The Jews believe and teach that the blood of Jesus is common and
ordinary blood like yours or mine. They also believe and teach that
Christ's passion for sin bears no more redemptive value than if you or I
had died. The scripture teaches that those who believe in Messiah and
yet confess that Jesus is not the Messiah are of the spirit of
anti-Christ. And you want to send these people money? Something's
wrong here.
I think what both sides are missing is that there are 12 tribes of Israel. The Tribes were dispersed all over the planet. Is YHVH bring His people back to the land now? Probably so. Now, who knows who married into who over the centuries? What if everyone that ends up with the Almighty Creator for all eternity is Israel. No matter what Tribe they are originally from. I think this is the correct way to look at this issue. This how we know that "All Israel will be saved".
Hard to conclude Smith is not anti-Semitic. He did not seem to receive much of an education from Conwell.
Old testament Israel called Exo_19:6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel."
The CHURCH IS CALLED..
1Pe_2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
christianferger who happen to be fellow BELIEVERS in Christ, Peter writing to CHRISTIANS.
christianferger RIGHT. who happened to be CHRISTIANS... does not deny my point.. as Paul, a JEWISH APOSTLE said. Rom 9:8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. As Peter, a JEWISH APOSTLE said, Act 3:22 Moses said, 'The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. Act 3:23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people..
Jews who do not believe in Christ as CUT OFF FROM GOD, "destroyed from the people"
The assembly of the saints are the people of God, these saints were all believers in pre-gospel eras. The word church is incorrect. The Greek word means "assembly" the same work in the Hebrew scriptures: synagogue. Go through the NT and replace the word "church" with assembly and you will see how this dramatically changes the message. God was a father to his children, husband to the body of believers, savior and redeemer of sinners, God to the Hebrew SAINTS. The Hebrews in the OT had a personal relationship with God. They knew that God was merciful and would forgive their sins. The Sabbath was never revoked. Eating of unclean animals is still prohibited. Jesus said, If you love me you will obey my commandments--he never spoke against the Torah (law) that he loved, obeyed and WROTE. There is only one book, the Holy Scriptures or Bible. There is no "Old" testament. That name and the division of the Bible into two was done by a heretic named Marcion because he hated the God of the Jews.
We Christians need to get our theology straight.
There will be a purpose for ethnic Jews to be established in earthly Israel; just as Mexicans have the right to be in Mexico and Asians have the right to be in Asia. But from the spiritual perspective ethnicity no longer identifies one as being in covenant relation with God. National Israel at this time in history, separated from Christ, does not have a covenant standing with the God of the bible. Who, for the most part is rejected by modern day Israel. A true seed, singular or plural, can only be a regenerated seed.
Some of the things you fail to mention are the circumstances of how 1948 Israel was established by the globalist Rothschilds, the present day anti Christ government and its symbolic occult Supreme Court building, Talmudic Judaism, the progressive homosexual community and the so called 6 pointed star of David with its 6 outer triangles and its 6 sided inner hexagon (hex=curse) contained within 2 equilateral triangles, 3 angles of 60 60 60 degrees.
Keeping proper perspective rather than two opposing extremes would help to neutralize the tension on this issue. Putting the modern state of Israel in such a positive light, as Dispensationalists tend to do, is to suppress reality by focusing on an earthly people rather than to recognize their position in heavenly places, and act thereon..No need to overrate a group of people according to the flesh.The recipients of the Abrahamic covenant are now identified as a spiritual seed; the Mosaic covenant is now abolished; the David covenant requires a resurrected status. The only covenant standing an unregenerate can claim is the Noahic; all nations are on equal footing with God and are offered an engrafting into the New Covenant.
2Cor 5:16...Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Gal 4:25,26...For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
James Michael Smith, Brother in Christ: Read about the litany of verses elucidating the need for we Gentiles and Jews in Christ to combat Lucifer and his minion on earth vs. all going to try to destroy Israel. 33% are yet to come to faith in Christ as YHWH!!
Moderator is a muppet. Def. worked against Dr. Brown.
God only let national Israel back in the land after being cast out in the ot when they repented and turned back to the Lord. They haven't done that since they were kicked out in AD70, so the gathering back to Israel is not from God.
This debate is over before it started. Anyone arguing against the relevance of the Jewish People is basically arguing against the Bible.
Amen.
Nakdimon316 who are the Jewish people that you speak of? Or do you mean the Israeli people?
I do agree that God will deal with the Israel as a NATION according to end time prophecy, Just like God will deal with all nations.
Can't separate the nation from the people. Jews as a whole continue to reject Jesus Christ. That doesn't make them cursed, but it certainly doesn't make them chosen either.
@@jimharmon2300 yup that's the exact point people continue to not understand. God will gather Israel not because they are special but because he made an eternal covenant with their ancestors. God keeps his promises
There is no such thing as replacement theology. The Church is the Israel of God from Genesis to Revelation.
Jr
No.
Tell us Mr Brown, can the jews go to heaven if they continue to reject Christ?
1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 1Jn 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. .. Since the Jews reject Christ, they are, and along with everyone else from all nations who reject Christ, they are a lot of "anti-Christ" people, People who reject Christ. NOT THE end time Anti-Christ to come...
Is Israel dirt or genetics or a religion? If its dirt , then why didn't Abram inherit it ? the word said he did not but he was there when lot and him was separated. Then if genealogy >Why was Jesus not a pure Jew He had genial blood in him . If a religion why does it say we are the seed by faith? Look it up people genetics proves the genealogy of Jews to day you will not find one pure blooded Jew there all crossbreed. So It is imposable for God to keep his promise according to natural letteral blessing . No! God was always talking about a people that was called of god . We are the chosen gen .Who are the chosen Christen but Israel is the chosen people how many different groups are chosen by God ? If there is more then one chosen then being chosen means nothing .
Actually 23 & Me found that I'm 50% Ashkenazi Jewish in my blood from my father's family. In fact it also carries the BRCA1 gene which I was tested for & saved my life by doing so. There's is scientific proof that Jewish people are proven by blood.
The body of Messiah is Israel. The "church" is the term for the congregation of believers, who yes, are grafted into Israel. Israel itself is called the "church" in the wilderness. Acts 7:38 "'This is he who was in the CHURCH (ekklesia) in the wilderness, with the messenger who is speaking to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers who did receive the living oracles to give to us;"
Israel is are the in-laws the church the body of Christ Christ the head is his bride he is the bridegroom bone of my bone Flesh of My Flesh members of his flesh and Bone scripture says
“For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.”
Romans 14:17 KJV
“Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?”
James 2:5 KJV
“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.”
Hebrews 11:6, 39-40
Gentile brethren in Christ Jah: you all had better read the New Testament again. Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ. Read John 10:1-30!! Read Romans 11:1-36. In Acts 9: 1-15 we read Christ Jah teach via Gentile Luke. Paul was a Rabbi. He was 50% Jew, 50% Gentile.
A true christians do not hate the Jews for Jesus was a Jew. Jesus once said to a Syrian woman, why should the bread be given to the dogs when it is intended for its master? Do not boast when we are just the recepient of the bread that just fell from masters table. What God had blessed, nobody can take it away and that is israel. God is still not finish with them and Jesus will come to discipline them in His millennial kingdom on earth. He will sit on the throne of David at the place that He loves- Jerusalem.
There was no place called Palestine or Palestina until the Romans, who renamed Israel and Jerusalem to punish the Israelis of the early 2nd century for rebelling against their occupiers. There were no Palestinians before this time. The Arab Israelis are not Palestinians. That is a label created to reframe the debate and initiate world-wide sympathy for the "victims" of Israeli "aggression".
Prior to the the children of Israel returning to their land that God promised them forever, the various Cannanite tribes lived their. They were not Arabs. Eventually, Israel was invaded by the Muslims, in time the land was laid to waste: swamps, empty villages, erosion, deforested; the land of milk and honey had become a wasteland. Only when the Jews returned, did the land flower again. Look at the other nations created at the time. Look at Jordan, a poor nation, nothing like the technological, agricultural and cultural flowering leading to prosperity for all people.
Since the Arabs only entered the land in numbers in circa 600-700 when they invaded Israel, they have less right to the land since the Jews were there continuously since Joshua and the Israelites entered in 1400 BC. That is a 2000 year precedence--in favor of the Jews.
James smith is just a joke
maybe israel can give the land back to the palestinians and their human rights