Bart Ehrman vs. Michael Brown on Suffering
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2016
- On April 15th, 2010 at Ohio State University, The Ohio Union Building in the Great Hall Meeting Room, Dr. Bart D. Ehrman and Dr. Michael L. Brown debate “Does the Bible Provide an Adequate Answer to the Problem of Suffering?” The debate was inspired largely due to Bart's book, "God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer". Bart argues that the Bible presents such contradictory "answers" to suffering, that we can't really know why there is suffering. For instance, in Amos and the other prophets, there is suffering because God is directly punishing people for their sins. But in books like Job, there is suffering because God is "teaching a lesson." Therefore, when we look at tragedies like a great earthquake, is God punishing them for their sins, or teaching them a lesson? According to Ehrman, we simply cannot know based on the Bible.
Video discussed on Bart Ehrman's Foundation Blog: ehrmanblog.org/?p=11710
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.
Michael L. Brown holds a Ph.D. in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures from New York University and has served as a visiting or adjunct professor at Southern Evangelical Seminary, Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary (Charlotte), Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Fuller Theological Seminary, Denver Theological Seminary, the King’s Seminary, and Regent University School of Divinity, and he has contributed numerous articles to scholarly publications, including the Oxford Dictionary of Jewish Religion and the Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament.
Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and Michael L. Brown. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting and/or duplication of this media without express and written permission from those listed.
The mental gymnastics that religious people to go through to justify their views are amazing.
Believers have a way of giving an elaborate non-answer every time.
At the end, Dr. Brown said that human suffering is "Bart's problem"; that Dr. Ehrman is tormented and losing sleep over the loss of his faith, and that the Bible is the answer. And yet, at the beginning of his presentation, Dr. Brown said of his wife, presumably a devout believer in God, "Many a night she cries herself to sleep over the pain of the human race." So apparently the bible has not even given his own wife an answer to the problem of suffering.
Wow. Bart really took the gloves off for this one.
One of the most important points that Bart ever makes is how wicked people can turn from their ways with a variety of methodologies and theological viewpoints. Also, who says a loving God can't give a unique kind of meaning to people who don't pick the right religion (through no fault of their own I might add)? Assuming God exists, don't you think He'd understand and love His creation enough not to blame them for their inquisitive nature? This is something many modern Christians fail miserably to understand. Their views are so polarized that they think everyone else's quality of life is completely fruitless and empty while they alone are given everlasting joy. How selfish and arrogant is that?
As a person that has had a very young niece die of childhood cancer, it is very hard to take the religious side seriously.
Brown said the Bible's answer for suffering is "subjective". I thought this was going to be a debate involving reasoned argument. Dr. Ehrman kept his part of the deal. Michael Brown delivered testimony, and a sermon to boot.
Suffering for "character development" only makes sense if "character development" is a good in itself, whereas "character development" is only a good because suffering exists in the first place.
Funny how the audio cuts out when Bart is speaking. It's almost like they don't want their illusions shattered.
I've come to the conclusion that believers are only concerned about themselves. they want to believe that they will be ok and will win favour with their god, leading to an eternity in heaven. Suffering of others they can interpret any way they choose and do mental gymnastics to justify it - as long as they're ok and feel they're special to their god.
The topic of the debate was "Does the Bible give an adequate answer to the problem of suffering?"
Like many, if not most, apologists, Brown speaks as though he is delivering a sermon. He wants to influence the emotions, not the intellect, of the audience.
Michael Brown's whole argument is about how much better life is if you believe, full of anecdote. Bart's argument is based simply whether it's true or not regardless of how it makes people feel.
1:04:24
When Bart talks about suffering he gets quite emotional, as opposed to his normal professorial and sometimes humourous tone. I prefer it when he gets worked up a bit.
I think this is the first time Bart was so passionate on his argument... FINALLY!!!!
It is amazing to me that somehow Michael Brown knows so much about what God thinks and what God wants. Meanwhile God is remarkably silent about suffering, natural disasters, disease, and cruelty. What is with cancer in young children. "There's a lot about God we don't know." I'd say we know nothing about God. We are trying to find out, via science and math, but God hasn't bequeathed that knowledge. Loving caring God my @ss!
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Bart is one of the many people who answered many questions I had been asking for years to pastors. never getting a satisfactory answer. he is brilliant. I left Christianity and went to Judaism. they are much more honest than Christianity. However,I am finding myself discontent with a few of their teachings. Too rabbinical ..So I continue to watch all these theologians and learn. Thank You Bart Ehrman
Only man of understanding among the Christian