Thank you for this video, this is gold. Things like this should be viral and you should be famous, well explanation, very informative. As apprentice this help me a lot.
May I just say that you are an awesome individual!! You have helped me out so much already. I’m so ready to take my test. I was struggling with the sizing. My test is scheduled nov 18. Send a prayer up for me! Thank you again!!
Wes, take a look at the revised water sizing video I did because I forgot to add the kitchen sink! Ugh. Fortunately it only affected the fixture unit total and not the sizing of the system. It is 24 Fixture units in total, not 22.5 as I stated in the video.
@@BGsPlumbingClass No sir, I'm a master plumber in Texas (I employ the apprentices). I've been showing them these videos to help them on their upcoming test. Thanks.
@@MisterGreenGuy Believe me it is my pleasure! Just remember that you guys are using the International Plumbing Code and I use the Uniform Plumbing Code. A few differences.
4 LayPerson Questions: 1. Does the qualitative term "adequate" supply of potable water in section 601.2 refer to the qualitative language "quantity of water " in section 610.3 and "quantified " WSFUs in Table 610.3? 2. Are the WSFUs (when converted into GPM) the "minimum amount of water" each plumbing fixture (kitchen faucet, bathroom faucet, showerhead, mixing-valve, and tub-spout) must get -- pre-water-conservation devices (aerators)? 3. Are the WSFUs different in table 610.3 for each 3-year edition of the CPC (from 1946 to 2022)? Are WSFUs based on Dr. Roy B. Hunter's 1928 work, the "Hunter's Curve" or something new? 4. For older properties built in the 1920s to 1930s (pre 1946 to 2022 CPC), would those state or local plumbingt codes have used a similar or equivalent WSFU/GPM formula -- Hunter's Curve?
If my memory serves me, when I began in the early 90s, water demand was different than it is now. As of right now, the Hunter's curve we have been using over the past several decades has been adjusted. Not just by demand shift in new design of fixtures, but now different buildings are utilizing differing curves based on occupancy usage. Prior to the curve, in Principles and Practice of Plumbing by JJ Cosgrove circa 1906, water sizing was based on similar information. Available static pressures, the hardness of water and it's affect on the piping used, the friction loss thru type of pipe and fittings, outlet demand of the fixture were all used to calculate demand.
I know. I felt awful after posting it! I redid the video as revised, reposted it, and the results were the same. No sizes were altered in that error. But I really couldn't believe I did that.
Simple answer would be an air break is an indirect connection below the flood rim- where the discharge pipe breaks the plane- and an air gap is the distance between the discharge point and the flood rim. There's a little more to it but that should add a little clarity, I hope
At 1:01:43 you summed 14.5 and 5.5 which, the 5.5 fixtures are already included in the 14.5 serving the water heater, shouldn’t the sum remain 14.5 since the 5.5 were already included through the hot water side? And thanks for the video
As far as sizing a system, the sum for the water heater supply shall be accounted for. I understand what you are thinking but look at a scenario where the water heater is located at the end of the line.
I know, I re-edited it and posted it as revised. I feel awful about it, but the good news is it had no effect on the sizing of the system as a whole. It was brought to my attention a couple times. Great catch!
Fantastic presentation. Easy to follow and understand. I know this is probably unintentional but it really helps me as a DIYer (others too I imagine). Everything was very straightforward, so I only have a question about the issue of oversizing. What are the potential issues if you upgrade a pipe now for a later addition? What if that later never happens? For the purpose of this example, and using your numbers. Say I had a utility room with just a sink (only needs 1/2"), and I wanted to turn that into a full bathroom with bath/shower (7.5 FU = 3/4" pipe). If I upped the pipe to 3/4" supplying that room and never converted to a bathroom - besides lower flow to sink - are there any issues to worry about?
Hello Sir, at min 46 or so, the note number 8 did not say reduce any addtonal HB to 1. I am little bit confused about this note how you find out they additnonal HB will be 1 in summation? Thank you
I understand what you are saying here. If you look up in the chart for Hose Bibs you'll see a line item for each additional hose bib and that refers to the adjusted value.
Around 59:00 you give the dishwasher and kitchen sink 1.5FU each, but 610.3 says KS w/ dishwasher is 1.5 FU. We just bought a quadruplex and I’m really confused because everything I’m finding only accounts for single family setups. We have 4 submeters, 1 main meter.
The dishwasher is interesting. I use the dishwasher as if it were an industrial stand alone. Kind of like using a gas refrigerator in the sizing exercise for fuel systems. No one will place a dishwasher separate from the sink supply unless it's a huge kitchen- should've mentioned that in the video.
The 70% method will be accurate. It is similar to the difference between the longest length and the branch length methods in sizing a gas system (Ch 12). Both are accurate, the 70% being more so. Sizing the regular way will afford you with larger pipe sizes in some locations- ensuring proper supply requirements and minimal "starvation" of water. Plus the velocity of fluid in the pipe will be slightly diminished adding life to system.
There is a video I did on sizing based on Appendix A that might help you, as it deals with distance pressure losses, elevations, etc. Worth the watch and I do think it will help
I’m studying for North Carolina . I’m using the ICC AND IPC. Neither one of these books have the piping size for water distribution which sucks because I’m always curious on what size of water line to use. So nothing IN WSFU. Only DFU. I gonna but the uniform code book but wouldn’t be able to take it into the exam room. Or if I could just download the chart . That will be good . Thanks for a great vids. Notice that you forgot to include the kitchen sink in the DFU calculation, but it would have been the same count because of the dishwasher. Just curious , what state you are in that uses the uniform plumbing code ?
The kitchen sink was missed. I revised this same video to reflect that. HUGE mistake! I'm ashamed... but you are correct. It doesn't affect the sizing on this example. I was in San Diego, CA but recently relocated to Tennessee- which uses the IPC. So anticipate a sizing video based on that soon.
Quick update on water sizing for you Vijay. The IPC does mention sizing, however it is located in Appendix E. I did a similar example of this method of sizing based on Appendix A of the UPC a while ago. Give it a look while you are studying IPC's APPX E. Let me know what you think, my email is gorhambm@outlook.com
Sorry for the late response. Been a bit on the busy side. I will address this for you and the others here as soon as I am reorganized. I just moved across country to Tennessee.
Yes and no. The total developed length is the furthest distance from the meter to the fixture that is furthest by way of water travel- which more often than not is through the water heater.
Oh yes, section 10-6.5....🤔 Exactly. I just wanna plumb my house in the era of Covid and manage to stay in compliance since I can’t get a plumber to give me the time of day! 😩
@@BGsPlumbingClass my existing copper pipes need replaced and I have decided to go with Pex B. I have complete access under my modular home to everything. Is it advisable to replace with the same size? The inside diameter of copper pipes is slightly larger than the inside diameter of Pex. Will this present a water flow problem? I know the answer is more complex than a simple yes or no and is based on the number of fittings and connections etc. I have two tubs with showers, two bathroom sinks, washer/dryer, water heater, kitchen sink, fridge waterline, no dishwasher.
@@beth1533 A short answer will be to use copper again. I was "brought up" on replacing Polybutylene in the mid 90s- which is the distant cousin of PEX- with copper. It was found to be defective and ruined several homes. With that being said, PEX is not the same as quest pipe (polybutylene). If you choose to go with PEX make sure you are familiar with the method of installation. PEX B uses a fitting with a smaller inside diameter than that of type A. So not only is the tubing smaller in diameter but the fittings are smaller than the tubing! That will restrict your flow a bit. The drawback to type A is that you require a tool to expand the tubing enough to insert the barbed fitting inside the expanded portion (Milwaukee provides the best tool for this purpose). But the fitting inside diameter is larger providing less flow restriction than the B type. I hope I answered your question without confusing you too much.
Question. 1. What is Total Developed Length in plumbing and how do you calculate ? 2. Once Total FU has been known, is there way converting it into GPM ?
Nathan, great questions. 1. The total developed length is the distance from the meter to the furthest fixture- not the highest necessarily, but the furthest. It's true distance is the total of each piping section added to the equivalent of lineal distance each fitting has based on type of material. Like a 3/4" 90 c x c has an equivalent distance of 2.1 feet. 2. You can convert the fixture units into gallons per minute by going into Appendix A and using chart A103.1 (1) or (2) in the UPC 2018. If you want to look at an earlier video of mine on sizing based on Appendix A please do! I hope this answered your question and if it didn't please reply back and I'll take another crack at it from a different angle so to speak.
If you decide to size out each branch at 75% capacity, why would you not for the building supply? In other words, if the building supply is 100%, shouldn't the rest of the building be as well- why choke it down? The note does say the branches "...shall be permitted", but I feel that it is such a minuscule amount in the overall scheme of the system that sizing it based on 100% is much more accurate and would ensure proper supply. A fixture's unit value is calculated based on volume at the fixture, and each fixture unit calculation in Table 610.4 is based on that (Appendix A). Also, here in my location the Journey level exam sizing portion is based on 100% and not the 75% method, so I try not to confuse the apprentices too much.
this is the first hour long video that I actually watched and kept me interested until the end. I get bored 6-8 minutes in normally. I watched this TWICE. One question. Lets say you start with 1 1/2 inch and as your going thru the house (closer toward the end) there is less fixtures left obviously right? So if it calls for 1 1/4 or even 1 inch at the very end- do we HAVE to reduce it to keep the pressure up? or can we just run 1 1/2 all the way to the other end and then do your last branches?
You don't have to size it down, however look at it this way. If you need a drink of water and drink 1 gallon out of a 5 gallon jug, what happens to the other 4? It stays there in the jug. Proper sizing ensures that water flow (velocity) is maintained while still providing the necessary volume at the pressures available. The pressure is still there, but the velocity will change when the size changes- like putting your thumb on a hose giving you more velocity.
Why is the shower/bathtub not 10.0? You said the fixture was huge. Out of that huge bathtub fixture you’re only using a 1/2” pipe? Bathtubs from my day were huge and I’d think from the noise and the speed at which they filled it was 3/4” for the tub and 1/2” for the shower head no?
I guess I could've addressed this in the video. There are two types of valves for tub/shower. Average valve bodies are 1/2" fill hence the 4.0 fixture unit count. I personally haven't seen a 3/4" valve in a little over 20 years.
@@BGsPlumbingClass thanks. I haven’t started looking at all so I’ll take your word for it. They were 20+ year old tubs so they probably were 3/4. I never taken a bath in the newer homes I’ve lived in haha.
@@neckofthewoods24 Just out of curiosity, have you watched any other videos? Are you a plumber or contractor, home owner, or someone just interested in the process? Do you have any critique of the presentation style? I am always interested in making changes or trying different methods of "production".
@@BGsPlumbingClass no i haven't watched others from you, just other videos from other youtubers. i came to yours because it seems everyone just does 3/4" and branches off 1/2". from the chart it looks like i should be doing 1" and branching down to 1/2". im my own builder, GC, plumber, electrician, etc etc and showing it all here on youtube for our channel. on a side note, at least we have well water with a variable pump and controller so my inlet pressure can go up to 100psi or like you said, 80psi max and with a ranch we have a very little rise in elevation. only interesting thing will be, whats the pressure out of the softener and filtration.
Don't worry about the English, I am bad at it as well! I get this question often. The template is by Rapidesign and it is an isometric template number R43. Thank you for your viewership!
Hi. Question on the table. The minimum pressure range is 30. Can i still use the table if my pressure is below 30 PSI? if No, what can i do? Do i need to install a pump for me to reach the 30 PSI pressure? Your response will be greatly appreciated. thank you very much.
Technically you are not supposed to use this table if your pressure is lower than 30 psi. If you do end up below 30 psi, you are advised to size the system based on appendix A of the UPC- which I made a short video on how to size using that method (which is the way the calculations in Table 610.4 were figured). It is different because now you are figuring out the calculations, but if you want accuracy and efficiency in your system, there really is no better method. A pump is only required if you dip below 15 PSI residual. I hope this helped.
i have a question about developed length, so im unsure if we need to add the developed length of the hot line coming off the water tank to the end of the farthest cold line? i did some continuing education classes and when they asked for developed length of water system i counted only the longer run, and i got a perfect score, but i always wonder do we need to count those (hot and cold) as a consecutive run or not?
The furthest distance is the length from the meter to a fixture by way of travel. So let's say a shower is 60' away from the meter on the cold side, but it's 120' by way of the hot- because the water heater is located 30' further down stream. The water, when the hot comes, then travels 30' to get heated and 30' back to the fixture. Therefore the furthest fixture is 120' away because of the travel required to dump out on the hot side.
@@BGsPlumbingClass yes this part confuses me. i was taking CE classes online and i took a water class and it had me measure developed length and all i did was measure the farthest fixture physically and i got a perfect score. i didnt add any of the hot line as an additive length and in the back of my mind i was thinking i should but it still scored it as correct the way i did it. im a month away from my resi specialty exam and i wanna pass lol
In calculating water supply flowrate . Do we have add all WSFU supply Fixture or shall we add lps. If we are adding lps then we are getting higher value
If you are going to size based on flow rate, then I would advise you to look at the engineered method of sizing in the UPC. This would be Appendix A and I have done a video explaining that method if you would like to view that.
Aside from having an engineering firm design the system, your best bet would be to utilize Appendix A in the UPC. That method of sizing uses pressure, friction loss, velocity, elevation, and gallons per minute to determine size of pipe.
I am currently using the Uniform Plumbing Code 2018 Edition. A link to it is on the home page in the upper right corner. It is a free PDF link so I encourage you to look through it.
Sorry for the late response. I will address this in a few weeks. I have just completed a move across the US from San Diego to Tennessee, which has taken a bit of time.
Imagine being a drop of water. If you start at the meter and get to the kitchen faucet through the piping, how far did you go? Now be another drop of water and travel to the water closet upstairs, how far was that? See, it's the distance in piping from the meter to the furthest point- more than likely it will be a distance through the water heater. If you are looking at a set of plans, chances are you will be the one that designs the system anyway so then you could scale it out.
@@BGsPlumbingClass Im confused.. First youre saying that you measure from the Water heater to the shortest distance possible of where that water line goes too. Then designing it? I can put it wherever?
@@realdeal8078 I in no way tried to confuse you. So sorry for that! Let's look at it a different way. The distance from the meter to the fixture that is the furthest away is the distance you will be calculating for the whole system- based on the UPC. If that distance (in piping- always in piping) happens to run through the water heater, then that is the distance. When I referenced looking at plans, I should've been more specific. If it is a commercial building, the plumbing is laid out for you by an engineer- almost 100% of the time. If it is a residential house, many times the plumbing lines aren't there for us, therefore we figure out where the system gets installed. We always use the furthest distance for our calculations because of pressure loss through distance (friction loss).
Great video. One question. I did this calculation an it shows I have 21.5 fu demand for hot. This would require an 1'' pipe, however the water heater is plumbed with 3/4''. Should this be changed?
Yes I did the calculation on my home plumbing. The static pressure at the meter is 47psi. The distance from meter to hot water heater is about 25 feet. But furthest fixture is probably 55 feet through hw heater. Using chart it would put 16 fu for a 3/4'' pipe. Highest placed fixture is about 28 feet but closer to meter probably 15 feet away then 28 up. Which would give 33 psi for height deduction. I get a total of 32.5 fu for entire house. I get 21.5 for hot water demand. My meter is a 3/4''. From what I understand the supply pipe from meter should be a 1-1/4'' pipe off meter (it's only 3/4). Then feed to a 1'' pipe for water heater, then can be down sized to 3/4'' as fixtures branch off with 1/2'' pipe . Is this correct?
@@bimil8724 Based on that yes. How many bathrooms are there? There is note 3 in Table 610.3 that allows you to take the value of the cold and the hot both at .75% of the value. That may be able to cut the size demand down.
@@BGsPlumbingClass there are 3 bathrooms. One with shower only. Other two have tub/shower combo. Using 75% method gets it down to 16.5 fu. It's very close but apparently still wrong. I have 50 gal water heater that seems to only have Inlet for 3/4 npt.
@@bimil8724 Well, first off if you have 3 bathrooms and 3 bedrooms a 50 gallon water heater will work- provided the first hour rating (the amount of hot water in an hour) is 62 gallons. Some are lower efficiency and would not achieve this. If you have more than 3 bedrooms I strongly suggest you get a larger heater to handle the potential load. I will also say that based on the code I would say yes change the size. I will also say- based on pure logic- that if you do not see an issue at this time because you may not have enough persons occupying the residence for all of your fixtures to be running at the same time to notice, don't change a thing yet. I think it is phenomenal that you did this!!!
I’m taking the Philadelphia code test but they are based off of the IPC code. I really love this video and want to continue to watch more, how far off is the UPC and the IPC code books? They seem pretty close code wise.
I meant between the two as far as the sizing methods. There is a considerable difference between the codes themselves. Obviously I am more slanted towards the UPC (west coast east coast thing- haha).
@@BGsPlumbingClass it’s very hard to find any videos of someone going through the IPC code book like you have here with the UPC one it’s very informative. So that’s why I was hoping the 2 code books weren’t to far off but at least I’m getting the concept down
I moved to East Tennessee recently and I now see that the IPC and the UPC are TOTALLY different! Reach out to me at gorhambm@outlook.com so we can discuss.
Aside from using unnecessary materials, you will not use the water in the line that is there. That will eventually create issues. Proper sizing will ensure consistency in volume, velocity, and even purity.
If you get some time can we Skype or something, I took my practical. And I'm not sure where I messed up, im not sure if it's the code, or if I thought I understood the water pipe sizing and I didn't, but I remember it all fairly well and could use some help if you get free time.
@@BGsPlumbingClass My email is liferangers4@yahoo ive passed my written and practical already, but still love to find out some things since the practical doesnt show what ive missed, and im sure you much wiser then me.
I have had that template for over 20 years and it is phenomenal!!! It beats using a 30-60-90 triangle. I believe you can get it on Amazon Rapid Design R-43 for isometric piping.
You are absolutely correct! Fortunately the total count adds up to 24 which is still 1 1/4" service on 3/4" meter. Great catch! I guess it is sized with everything but the kitchen sink- LITERALLY!
John, I went ahead and edited this video to show my error, which I re-posted as "Chapter 6 Water Sizing Exercise (Revised)". Thank you so much again for telling me!
No problem. Thanks for doing these videos they are very helpful as I was doing my continuing education and I always get tripped up with sizing since I only do it once every couple years or so. I always forget to add up all the fixtures at the beginning so I end up with really big FU number that is conveniently one of the multiple choice answers.
The Uniform Plumbing Code is revised and published every three years by IAPMO. The publication can actually be purchased through Amazon quite readily. I hope this helped you.
Yep. A mistake I overlooked on the initial count. Fortunately it didn't change the sizing. I actually re-edited this video to show the kitchen sink on a different post. Great catch!
Which is the template you use to draw the sctech? Could you possibly slow down the beginning where you sctech the roughin pipe supply? Or where did you get trained, or are you a natural artist? Thanks
I get that question a lot. That is a Rapidesign Isometric Template R-43 you can find it on Amazon. I got mine about 25 years ago as an apprentice. I learned isometrics in school as a young apprentice.
I have some plumbing books that are over 100 years old and you aren't that far off. I tell you the plumbing trade back then was full of what we would call engineers today. Humbled when I read those.
Waoh!!!! This lecture format is amazing and direct to the point. I'm excited to watch and listen
I'm glad you think so! I get worried I may be boring sometimes!
Thank you for this video, this is gold. Things like this should be viral and you should be famous, well explanation, very informative. As apprentice this help me a lot.
Thanks for saying this! What area are you taking your apprenticeship?
thank you so much, been looking for this answer for a while now.
Thank you, great video! Explained simply and thoroughly and very easy to understand.
You're very welcome!
May I just say that you are an awesome individual!! You have helped me out so much already. I’m so ready to take my test. I was struggling with the sizing. My test is scheduled nov 18. Send a prayer up for me! Thank you again!!
Wes, take a look at the revised water sizing video I did because I forgot to add the kitchen sink! Ugh. Fortunately it only affected the fixture unit total and not the sizing of the system. It is 24 Fixture units in total, not 22.5 as I stated in the video.
BG's Plumbing Class I actually caught it as you were doing the video but someone already pointed it out. Thank you again!
This was an amazing video. Thank you so much!
You're welcome. I will be doing another sizing video soon.
Can not really say much. Beyond great, beyond amazing. God bless you!
Thank you!
Tank you for. This video. God bless you
Glad you liked it.
I love this. It's very helpful. Thank you!
I'm glad you liked it!!!
I've been using your vids to help prep my apprentices for their Journeyman's test. Thank you!
You are a plumbing instructor? I am honored that you would do this. Where are you from?
@@BGsPlumbingClass No sir, I'm a master plumber in Texas (I employ the apprentices). I've been showing them these videos to help them on their upcoming test. Thanks.
@@MisterGreenGuy Believe me it is my pleasure! Just remember that you guys are using the International Plumbing Code and I use the Uniform Plumbing Code. A few differences.
I just took my test today in Anaheim, CA
@@zapoteco131 How did you do?
Great Stuff!
Glad you enjoyed it
THANK YOU SIR, MORE BLESSINGS TO COME.
Please, I do this because it is important for others to understand. My only hope is that I don't confuse you too much.
Thanks for this great way to show the way work
No problem!
Thank you, explained very clear. Love your video.
Glad it was helpful!
Great Video class. Thank you.
Thank you very much. I need to do a couple more and maybe simplify it more so that it is even easier to understand.
Thank you so much! This is immensely helpful
You are welcome. I am glad it helped!
SOLID GOLD! Thank you!
Absolutely!
Thank you so much Sir
I am happy you liked it! Hope the information was helpful!
4 LayPerson Questions:
1. Does the qualitative term "adequate" supply of potable water in section 601.2 refer to the qualitative language "quantity of water " in section 610.3 and "quantified " WSFUs in Table 610.3?
2. Are the WSFUs (when converted into GPM) the "minimum amount of water" each plumbing fixture (kitchen faucet, bathroom faucet, showerhead, mixing-valve, and tub-spout) must get -- pre-water-conservation devices (aerators)?
3. Are the WSFUs different in table 610.3 for each 3-year edition of the CPC (from 1946 to 2022)? Are WSFUs based on Dr. Roy B. Hunter's 1928 work, the "Hunter's Curve" or something new?
4. For older properties built in the 1920s to 1930s (pre 1946 to 2022 CPC), would those state or local plumbingt codes have used a similar or equivalent WSFU/GPM formula -- Hunter's Curve?
If my memory serves me, when I began in the early 90s, water demand was different than it is now. As of right now, the Hunter's curve we have been using over the past several decades has been adjusted. Not just by demand shift in new design of fixtures, but now different buildings are utilizing differing curves based on occupancy usage. Prior to the curve, in Principles and Practice of Plumbing by JJ Cosgrove circa 1906, water sizing was based on similar information. Available static pressures, the hardness of water and it's affect on the piping used, the friction loss thru type of pipe and fittings, outlet demand of the fixture were all used to calculate demand.
Good stuff Brother Thank you!!!
Thanks!
Designed this house with everything but the kitchen sink!
I know. I felt awful after posting it! I redid the video as revised, reposted it, and the results were the same. No sizes were altered in that error. But I really couldn't believe I did that.
Issac first thank you for the videos, great job! Question, what is the difference between an airgap and an airbreak? is it the distance?
Simple answer would be an air break is an indirect connection below the flood rim- where the discharge pipe breaks the plane- and an air gap is the distance between the discharge point and the flood rim. There's a little more to it but that should add a little clarity, I hope
@@BGsPlumbingClass thanks that helps
@@upnorth1955 If you ever have any other questions feel free to contact me via email at gorhambm@outlook.com pleasure to help!
Thank you
My pleasure!
Thank you for the info 👍🏼
Glad you liked it!
Thank you so much!
Glad it helped!
At 1:01:43 you summed 14.5 and 5.5 which, the 5.5 fixtures are already included in the 14.5 serving the water heater, shouldn’t the sum remain 14.5 since the 5.5 were already included through the hot water side? And thanks for the video
As far as sizing a system, the sum for the water heater supply shall be accounted for. I understand what you are thinking but look at a scenario where the water heater is located at the end of the line.
I have one comment...I noticed when you were finding the T.F.U count I didn't see the kitchen sink F ixture unit added?
I know, I re-edited it and posted it as revised. I feel awful about it, but the good news is it had no effect on the sizing of the system as a whole. It was brought to my attention a couple times. Great catch!
Fantastic presentation. Easy to follow and understand. I know this is probably unintentional but it really helps me as a DIYer (others too I imagine). Everything was very straightforward, so I only have a question about the issue of oversizing. What are the potential issues if you upgrade a pipe now for a later addition? What if that later never happens?
For the purpose of this example, and using your numbers. Say I had a utility room with just a sink (only needs 1/2"), and I wanted to turn that into a full bathroom with bath/shower (7.5 FU = 3/4" pipe). If I upped the pipe to 3/4" supplying that room and never converted to a bathroom - besides lower flow to sink - are there any issues to worry about?
Even the lower flow wouldn't be that much of an issue- you're talking minuscule. There is no real issue with that scenario.
@@BGsPlumbingClass Makes sense. Thanks for the reply!
Hello Sir, at min 46 or so, the note number 8 did not say reduce any addtonal HB to 1. I am little bit confused about this note how you find out they additnonal HB will be 1 in summation? Thank you
I understand what you are saying here. If you look up in the chart for Hose Bibs you'll see a line item for each additional hose bib and that refers to the adjusted value.
Around 59:00 you give the dishwasher and kitchen sink 1.5FU each, but 610.3 says KS w/ dishwasher is 1.5 FU. We just bought a quadruplex and I’m really confused because everything I’m finding only accounts for single family setups. We have 4 submeters, 1 main meter.
Also, what about the 70% method?
The dishwasher is interesting. I use the dishwasher as if it were an industrial stand alone. Kind of like using a gas refrigerator in the sizing exercise for fuel systems. No one will place a dishwasher separate from the sink supply unless it's a huge kitchen- should've mentioned that in the video.
The 70% method will be accurate. It is similar to the difference between the longest length and the branch length methods in sizing a gas system (Ch 12). Both are accurate, the 70% being more so. Sizing the regular way will afford you with larger pipe sizes in some locations- ensuring proper supply requirements and minimal "starvation" of water. Plus the velocity of fluid in the pipe will be slightly diminished adding life to system.
what if Im using a gravity fed system and my pressure supplied is below 30psi, where, what do i do cz that chart doesnt cater for pressures that low
There is a video I did on sizing based on Appendix A that might help you, as it deals with distance pressure losses, elevations, etc. Worth the watch and I do think it will help
I’m studying for North Carolina . I’m using the ICC AND IPC. Neither one of these books have the piping size for water distribution which sucks because I’m always curious on what size of water line to use.
So nothing IN WSFU. Only DFU.
I gonna but the uniform code book but wouldn’t be able to take it into the exam room.
Or if I could just download the chart . That will be good . Thanks for a great vids.
Notice that you forgot to include the kitchen sink in the DFU calculation, but it would have been the same count because of the dishwasher.
Just curious , what state you are in that uses the uniform plumbing code ?
The kitchen sink was missed. I revised this same video to reflect that. HUGE mistake! I'm ashamed... but you are correct. It doesn't affect the sizing on this example. I was in San Diego, CA but recently relocated to Tennessee- which uses the IPC. So anticipate a sizing video based on that soon.
@@BGsPlumbingClass
I would really like that to see how to navigate the ips for water distribution sizing . Thanks again .
Quick update on water sizing for you Vijay. The IPC does mention sizing, however it is located in Appendix E. I did a similar example of this method of sizing based on Appendix A of the UPC a while ago. Give it a look while you are studying IPC's APPX E. Let me know what you think, my email is gorhambm@outlook.com
SIr. Could you please show us how to choose the water heater size, and the Storage water tank? Please.
Sorry for the late response. Been a bit on the busy side. I will address this for you and the others here as soon as I am reorganized. I just moved across country to Tennessee.
How is total developed length calculated? Does it have to take into account the hot water line?
Yes and no. The total developed length is the furthest distance from the meter to the fixture that is furthest by way of water travel- which more often than not is through the water heater.
Oh yes, section 10-6.5....🤔 Exactly. I just wanna plumb my house in the era of Covid and manage to stay in compliance since I can’t get a plumber to give me the time of day! 😩
Beth, I hope you learn something from these videos. Is there anything you need to understand specifically?
@@BGsPlumbingClass my existing copper pipes need replaced and I have decided to go with Pex B. I have complete access under my modular home to everything. Is it advisable to replace with the same size? The inside diameter of copper pipes is slightly larger than the inside diameter of Pex. Will this present a water flow problem? I know the answer is more complex than a simple yes or no and is based on the number of fittings and connections etc. I have two tubs with showers, two bathroom sinks, washer/dryer, water heater, kitchen sink, fridge waterline, no dishwasher.
My home s 56x24 ft.
@@beth1533 A short answer will be to use copper again. I was "brought up" on replacing Polybutylene in the mid 90s- which is the distant cousin of PEX- with copper. It was found to be defective and ruined several homes. With that being said, PEX is not the same as quest pipe (polybutylene). If you choose to go with PEX make sure you are familiar with the method of installation. PEX B uses a fitting with a smaller inside diameter than that of type A. So not only is the tubing smaller in diameter but the fittings are smaller than the tubing! That will restrict your flow a bit. The drawback to type A is that you require a tool to expand the tubing enough to insert the barbed fitting inside the expanded portion (Milwaukee provides the best tool for this purpose). But the fitting inside diameter is larger providing less flow restriction than the B type. I hope I answered your question without confusing you too much.
@@BGsPlumbingClass thank you so much for you advice! Your explanation is clear and will help guide me in the right direction:)
Question.
1. What is Total Developed Length in plumbing and how do you calculate ?
2. Once Total FU has been known, is there way converting it into GPM ?
Nathan, great questions.
1. The total developed length is the distance from the meter to the furthest fixture- not the highest necessarily, but the furthest. It's true distance is the total of each piping section added to the equivalent of lineal distance each fitting has based on type of material. Like a 3/4" 90 c x c has an equivalent distance of 2.1 feet.
2. You can convert the fixture units into gallons per minute by going into Appendix A and using chart A103.1 (1) or (2) in the UPC 2018. If you want to look at an earlier video of mine on sizing based on Appendix A please do!
I hope this answered your question and if it didn't please reply back and I'll take another crack at it from a different angle so to speak.
Can u do one on the sanitary pump drawings? Please
I will do one here soon. I really need to get back to these.
I have watched your water sizing video and found it concise and well thought out. May I ask? What is your take on note 3 of table 610.3? Thanks...
If you decide to size out each branch at 75% capacity, why would you not for the building supply? In other words, if the building supply is 100%, shouldn't the rest of the building be as well- why choke it down? The note does say the branches "...shall be permitted", but I feel that it is such a minuscule amount in the overall scheme of the system that sizing it based on 100% is much more accurate and would ensure proper supply. A fixture's unit value is calculated based on volume at the fixture, and each fixture unit calculation in Table 610.4 is based on that (Appendix A). Also, here in my location the Journey level exam sizing portion is based on 100% and not the 75% method, so I try not to confuse the apprentices too much.
this is the first hour long video that I actually watched and kept me interested until the end. I get bored 6-8 minutes in normally. I watched this TWICE. One question. Lets say you start with 1 1/2 inch and as your going thru the house (closer toward the end) there is less fixtures left obviously right? So if it calls for 1 1/4 or even 1 inch at the very end- do we HAVE to reduce it to keep the pressure up? or can we just run 1 1/2 all the way to the other end and then do your last branches?
You don't have to size it down, however look at it this way. If you need a drink of water and drink 1 gallon out of a 5 gallon jug, what happens to the other 4? It stays there in the jug. Proper sizing ensures that water flow (velocity) is maintained while still providing the necessary volume at the pressures available. The pressure is still there, but the velocity will change when the size changes- like putting your thumb on a hose giving you more velocity.
@@BGsPlumbingClass thank you sir for your reply
@@homersalazar8479 You're welcome. Hope it helped.
Why is the shower/bathtub not 10.0? You said the fixture was huge. Out of that huge bathtub fixture you’re only using a 1/2” pipe? Bathtubs from my day were huge and I’d think from the noise and the speed at which they filled it was 3/4” for the tub and 1/2” for the shower head no?
I guess I could've addressed this in the video. There are two types of valves for tub/shower. Average valve bodies are 1/2" fill hence the 4.0 fixture unit count. I personally haven't seen a 3/4" valve in a little over 20 years.
@@BGsPlumbingClass thanks. I haven’t started looking at all so I’ll take your word for it. They were 20+ year old tubs so they probably were 3/4. I never taken a bath in the newer homes I’ve lived in haha.
@@neckofthewoods24 Just out of curiosity, have you watched any other videos? Are you a plumber or contractor, home owner, or someone just interested in the process? Do you have any critique of the presentation style? I am always interested in making changes or trying different methods of "production".
@@BGsPlumbingClass no i haven't watched others from you, just other videos from other youtubers. i came to yours because it seems everyone just does 3/4" and branches off 1/2". from the chart it looks like i should be doing 1" and branching down to 1/2". im my own builder, GC, plumber, electrician, etc etc and showing it all here on youtube for our channel. on a side note, at least we have well water with a variable pump and controller so my inlet pressure can go up to 100psi or like you said, 80psi max and with a ranch we have a very little rise in elevation. only interesting thing will be, whats the pressure out of the softener and filtration.
@@neckofthewoods24 You should be able to acquire pressure loss information about the softener and filtration systems from the manufacturer.
Firstly, sorry my bad english. where can i find the ruler your used for buy.
Don't worry about the English, I am bad at it as well! I get this question often. The template is by Rapidesign and it is an isometric template number R43. Thank you for your viewership!
What happens when there’s no elevation, the surface is flat and no changes on pressure, do you size it with the minimum of 65?
Yep. If there is no elevation change there is no need to adjust pressure variations due to elevation.
Hi. Question on the table. The minimum pressure range is 30. Can i still use the table if my pressure is below 30 PSI? if No, what can i do? Do i need to install a pump for me to reach the 30 PSI pressure? Your response will be greatly appreciated. thank you very much.
Technically you are not supposed to use this table if your pressure is lower than 30 psi. If you do end up below 30 psi, you are advised to size the system based on appendix A of the UPC- which I made a short video on how to size using that method (which is the way the calculations in Table 610.4 were figured). It is different because now you are figuring out the calculations, but if you want accuracy and efficiency in your system, there really is no better method. A pump is only required if you dip below 15 PSI residual. I hope this helped.
i have a question about developed length, so im unsure if we need to add the developed length of the hot line coming off the water tank to the end of the farthest cold line? i did some continuing education classes and when they asked for developed length of water system i counted only the longer run, and i got a perfect score, but i always wonder do we need to count those (hot and cold) as a consecutive run or not?
The furthest distance is the length from the meter to a fixture by way of travel. So let's say a shower is 60' away from the meter on the cold side, but it's 120' by way of the hot- because the water heater is located 30' further down stream. The water, when the hot comes, then travels 30' to get heated and 30' back to the fixture. Therefore the furthest fixture is 120' away because of the travel required to dump out on the hot side.
@@BGsPlumbingClass yes this part confuses me. i was taking CE classes online and i took a water class and it had me measure developed length and all i did was measure the farthest fixture physically and i got a perfect score. i didnt add any of the hot line as an additive length and in the back of my mind i was thinking i should but it still scored it as correct the way i did it. im a month away from my resi specialty exam and i wanna pass lol
How'd you do on the exam?
Wish you had one for Dwv
I do. Please look on my channel and you will see one for DWV as well as Natural Gas.
In calculating water supply flowrate . Do we have add all WSFU supply Fixture or shall we add lps. If we are adding lps then we are getting higher value
If you are going to size based on flow rate, then I would advise you to look at the engineered method of sizing in the UPC. This would be Appendix A and I have done a video explaining that method if you would like to view that.
Sir, I wanted to know how we can size for multiple story buildings where pumps are required. How do we size the water supply risers and inside piping
Aside from having an engineering firm design the system, your best bet would be to utilize Appendix A in the UPC. That method of sizing uses pressure, friction loss, velocity, elevation, and gallons per minute to determine size of pipe.
Please which text book did you used.
I am currently using the Uniform Plumbing Code 2018 Edition. A link to it is on the home page in the upper right corner. It is a free PDF link so I encourage you to look through it.
how do you size the water heater
Sorry for the late response. I will address this in a few weeks. I have just completed a move across the US from San Diego to Tennessee, which has taken a bit of time.
How do you know where to find the most remote fixture(where is where you start from) when it comes to roughing in a home.?
Imagine being a drop of water. If you start at the meter and get to the kitchen faucet through the piping, how far did you go? Now be another drop of water and travel to the water closet upstairs, how far was that? See, it's the distance in piping from the meter to the furthest point- more than likely it will be a distance through the water heater. If you are looking at a set of plans, chances are you will be the one that designs the system anyway so then you could scale it out.
@@BGsPlumbingClass Im confused.. First youre saying that you measure from the Water heater to the shortest distance possible of where that water line goes too. Then designing it? I can put it wherever?
@@realdeal8078 I in no way tried to confuse you. So sorry for that! Let's look at it a different way. The distance from the meter to the fixture that is the furthest away is the distance you will be calculating for the whole system- based on the UPC. If that distance (in piping- always in piping) happens to run through the water heater, then that is the distance. When I referenced looking at plans, I should've been more specific. If it is a commercial building, the plumbing is laid out for you by an engineer- almost 100% of the time. If it is a residential house, many times the plumbing lines aren't there for us, therefore we figure out where the system gets installed. We always use the furthest distance for our calculations because of pressure loss through distance (friction loss).
Great video. One question. I did this calculation an it shows I have 21.5 fu demand for hot. This would require an 1'' pipe, however the water heater is plumbed with 3/4''. Should this be changed?
You did the calculation on your system at home? Did you check the distance and inlet pressure? What other information can you give me?
Yes I did the calculation on my home plumbing.
The static pressure at the meter is 47psi.
The distance from meter to hot water heater is about 25 feet.
But furthest fixture is probably 55 feet through hw heater. Using chart it would put 16 fu for a 3/4'' pipe.
Highest placed fixture is about 28 feet but closer to meter probably 15 feet away then 28 up. Which would give 33 psi for height deduction.
I get a total of 32.5 fu for entire house.
I get 21.5 for hot water demand.
My meter is a 3/4''.
From what I understand the supply pipe from meter should be a 1-1/4'' pipe off meter (it's only 3/4). Then feed to a 1'' pipe for water heater, then can be down sized to 3/4'' as fixtures branch off with 1/2'' pipe . Is this correct?
@@bimil8724 Based on that yes. How many bathrooms are there? There is note 3 in Table 610.3 that allows you to take the value of the cold and the hot both at .75% of the value. That may be able to cut the size demand down.
@@BGsPlumbingClass there are 3 bathrooms. One with shower only. Other two have tub/shower combo.
Using 75% method gets it down to 16.5 fu.
It's very close but apparently still wrong.
I have 50 gal water heater that seems to only have Inlet for 3/4 npt.
@@bimil8724 Well, first off if you have 3 bathrooms and 3 bedrooms a 50 gallon water heater will work- provided the first hour rating (the amount of hot water in an hour) is 62 gallons. Some are lower efficiency and would not achieve this. If you have more than 3 bedrooms I strongly suggest you get a larger heater to handle the potential load. I will also say that based on the code I would say yes change the size. I will also say- based on pure logic- that if you do not see an issue at this time because you may not have enough persons occupying the residence for all of your fixtures to be running at the same time to notice, don't change a thing yet. I think it is phenomenal that you did this!!!
I’m taking the Philadelphia code test but they are based off of the IPC code. I really love this video and want to continue to watch more, how far off is the UPC and the IPC code books? They seem pretty close code wise.
I am not 100% sure of any differences between the two but I will research it for you. When is your test?
I meant between the two as far as the sizing methods. There is a considerable difference between the codes themselves. Obviously I am more slanted towards the UPC (west coast east coast thing- haha).
@@BGsPlumbingClass it’s very hard to find any videos of someone going through the IPC code book like you have here with the UPC one it’s very informative. So that’s why I was hoping the 2 code books weren’t to far off but at least I’m getting the concept down
@@kyleleaper8334 When's the exam Kyle?
I moved to East Tennessee recently and I now see that the IPC and the UPC are TOTALLY different! Reach out to me at gorhambm@outlook.com so we can discuss.
Just use 1 1/4 " pipe on everything toilets. Lavatory. Ice mkr line .and you'll be cool!
Aside from using unnecessary materials, you will not use the water in the line that is there. That will eventually create issues. Proper sizing will ensure consistency in volume, velocity, and even purity.
So every 10 feet you go up you lose 5 pounds of pressure?
Correct- sort of. By Chapter 6 standards that is correct, but in actuality every foot of rise is a drop in .43 psi (in other words 4.3 psi in 10 feet)
If you get some time can we Skype or something, I took my practical. And I'm not sure where I messed up, im not sure if it's the code, or if I thought I understood the water pipe sizing and I didn't, but I remember it all fairly well and could use some help if you get free time.
What is your email?
@@BGsPlumbingClass My email is liferangers4@yahoo ive passed my written and practical already, but still love to find out some things since the practical doesnt show what ive missed, and im sure you much wiser then me.
@@brianhayden5433 Sorry for the delayed response. Email me at gorhambm@outlook.com and we'll set something up.
Where can I get that utensil?
I have had that template for over 20 years and it is phenomenal!!! It beats using a 30-60-90 triangle. I believe you can get it on Amazon Rapid Design R-43 for isometric piping.
www.amazon.com/dp/B001E1V56W/ref=cm_sw_r_u_apa_glt_fabc_F1EHHQQ1GCEVGQD46K5S
You forgot to add the kitchen sink to TFU.
You are absolutely correct! Fortunately the total count adds up to 24 which is still 1 1/4" service on 3/4" meter. Great catch! I guess it is sized with everything but the kitchen sink- LITERALLY!
John, I went ahead and edited this video to show my error, which I re-posted as "Chapter 6 Water Sizing Exercise (Revised)". Thank you so much again for telling me!
No problem. Thanks for doing these videos they are very helpful as I was doing my continuing education and I always get tripped up with sizing since I only do it once every couple years or so. I always forget to add up all the fixtures at the beginning so I end up with really big FU number that is conveniently one of the multiple choice answers.
@@BGsPlumbingClass Ha ha I saw that right away missing the KS I kept waiting for it to pop up. we all miss something!
@@jeffreyplumber1975 A mistake I will forever be haunted by. HaHaHa
How can I get this book?
The Uniform Plumbing Code is revised and published every three years by IAPMO. The publication can actually be purchased through Amazon quite readily. I hope this helped you.
sir kindly share the name of book or pdf link
On my Home Page is a link located in the bottom right corner of the main photo. That is the Uniform Plumbing Code PDF
Where is kitchen sink
Yep. A mistake I overlooked on the initial count. Fortunately it didn't change the sizing. I actually re-edited this video to show the kitchen sink on a different post. Great catch!
Which is the template you use to draw the sctech? Could you possibly slow down the beginning where you sctech the roughin pipe supply? Or where did you get trained, or are you a natural artist? Thanks
I get that question a lot. That is a Rapidesign Isometric Template R-43 you can find it on Amazon. I got mine about 25 years ago as an apprentice. I learned isometrics in school as a young apprentice.
Awesome 👌 thanks
You're welcome. Were you able to get a template?
We still call it auto washers
I prefer to call it auto washer as well.
Thank you. Your videos are really helpful
You're welcome!
n = number of hose bibs
F.U. = n + 1.5 (n/n) = n (1 + 1.5/n)
When the world needs more aerospace engineers, plumbers should be ready to go.
I have some plumbing books that are over 100 years old and you aren't that far off. I tell you the plumbing trade back then was full of what we would call engineers today. Humbled when I read those.
where did you get that protractor?
It's an isometric template from Rapidesign. Number R-43, I believe you can get it on amazon for about $15.00 It is a great template for isometrics!