Why Such LONG Handles on SINGLE-Handed Swords?
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- čas přidán 22. 02. 2024
- Have you ever wondered why they would put an unnecessarily(?) long handle on a sword that was used in one hand only? Or did you think they were really intended for two-handed use?
Well, there are actually good, practical reasons to make them like this in certain cases. It's obviously not the only way to do it, but it's not arbitray. Here are some explanations as to why.
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The swords shown here (affiliate links):
"Gustav" and "Adorian" messer by Landsknecht Emporium
www.kultofathena.com/product/...
www.kultofathena.com/product/...
www.kultofathena.com/product/...
www.kultofathena.com/product/...
"Flying Phoenix" Han jian by LK Chen
www.kultofathena.com/product/...
Practice messer and shortsword, Oakshott Type 14, I.33 by Viktor Berbekucz
www.woodenswords.com/?Click=1799
"The Knecht" kriegsmesser by Albion
(discontinued)
Relevant videos:
Can You Use a Single-Handed Sword with TWO Hands?
• Can You Use a Single-H...
Knife or Sword?
• Knife or Sword?
Longsword and Saber/Messer Sparring With Commentary
• Longsword and Saber/Me...
Test cutting with Swordsage
• Cutting Practice: Chin...
** Sources **
Hand-and-a-half sword, 15th century
www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...
Chinese mounted sword with Japanese blade
www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...
Daishō (Katana & wakizashi)
www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...
Qing Dynasty military sword
www.mandarinmansion.com/item/...
Burmese dha
www.mandarinmansion.com/item/...
Swiss hand-and-a-half sword
www.artic.edu/artworks/116962...
Hand-and-a-half saber
www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...
Fighting manuscript by Fiore de’i Liberi, around 1400
wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fiore_de%...
Messer manuscripts
wiktenauer.com/wiki/Category:...
Pommel
www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...
Lóngquán jiàn
www.mandarinmansion.com/item/...
** Music credits **
"Winds of Stories" by Horror Pen
opengameart.org/content/winds...
Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license (CC BY 3.0)
"Medieval Town" by Syncopika
opengameart.org/content/medie...
CC BY 3.0
Outro:
"Highland Storm" by The Slanted Room Records
theslantedroom.github.io/stev...
Used with artist's permission
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#skallagrim #sword #history - Zábava
"There are no solutions, only trade-offs." - a great man.
To be perfect in a single way is to be imperfect in every other way.
Thomas Sowell
i use my hand & half sword with a sheild all the time. the longer handle lets you wrest it against wrist makes it lighter when presenting point means u can hold it for many minutes longer than just short handle & wrist
ps i block with pomel/handle a lot. never had anyone manage to grab hold of it. my pomel is amorphic/shaped like head and arms so i often deflect stabs at gut ext with it
You’re right, I did say that
I dunno if I'd really call him a great man
For those of you with an attention span ,
hang in there
he calms down after a while
I pity the fool
well, we wouldn't be Skallagrim subscribers if we had no attention span and weren't interested. I'm just happy af that youtube finally shows me skallagrim vids again instead of having me click to his profile to watch his videos
@@IIIAnchani You had to click on him yourself ? Oh, The Humanity
@@IIIAnchani wait what?
yes I have an attention span, thanks dad
The off screen yoink at 5:18 made my day.
Lmao i loved the "im just messing with you" while holding a messer
I always figured the "hand and a half" were single handed that had the option for double handed when more leverage was needed. It just feels that way to me.
Whenever I think of a hand and a half or bastard sword I imagine there are two schools of thought for it.
Either it's a longer sword that is made so it's feasible to use in one hand, or it's shorter one with a handle that could accommodate a second hand if the situation calls for it.
Hand and a half were called bastard sword, meaning non-standard. It didn't meet either the length of single handed sword handle or that of a two handed sword.
5:15 that was genuinly hilarious kudos
it's funny for me to see one of the channels that i watch frequently for the longest turning the editing style more into the gen z attention retaining, i mean, it works, and the video is better than ever, it's just funny thing i've noticed, keep up the good work, love the content :)
When looking at analytics it's frankly concerning just how much the average attention span has tanked...
@@Skallagrim i know! It's a sad reality, as a gen z myself, I am 23yo, I feel so sad about the majority of people nowadays just giving in to these tactics on social media, touching grass is more necessary and more avoided day by day
@@Skallagrim I guess you are also more likely to watch a more stimulating video if you don't actually care much about the topic and just want smth to entertain
@@Skallagrimmy attention has been ruined, but now I started working in a museum and today I spent hours studying old documents without a pause. Everyone has it in themselves
people have done official studies and at the monent Tik Tok became prominent the average attention span halved. its scary. and also sucks bc i like my 30 min to a hour long vids more.
That beginning was dope!
That little trick where you suddenly slide your hand down a long hilt for more reach was a favorite trick of one of my professors in college. He was part of a HEMA group that had no problem with mixing styles from all over the world, and that professor used the traditional katana/wakizashi duo for his close ranged options (though he preferred either a 9-foot spear or a glaive when arena space allowed).
Love the historical context in medieval documents for reference
Scholagladiatoria showed a Burmese dha with a very long handle and mentioned how odd it felt. I think it'd take some getting used to for sure. However it was VERY nimble, and like you mentioned if you needed more reach instead it's an instant option, and room for two hands if power is required. Overall it seemed like a pretty neat all-round package, just requiring some practice.
@5:15 - LMAO - That was a good one
Never thought about that topic. I allways thought that the handle corresponds to the fencing style (1H vs 2H). Thank you I've learned something new.
Your content is refreshingly authentic, keeps me coming back for more!
I’m venturing a guess, balance. When the blade is that long forward, even with taper, you gonna need weight at the other end to bring the balance towards the hilt, rather than tip heavy forward. It’s like a bridge in a way.
While that is true, isn't concentrating the mass at the very end of the hilt better due to leverage?
1:24 What's interesting about this example is that around the time of the crusades, Oakeshott type XIIIs started popping up that allowed for both single and double handed use. It was short lived but it's one of my favorite types. I wonder if the sword was born out of examples like depicted in this artwork, or if it already existed and this is just a limitation of the artist?
4:13 and beefier too! Some historical examples of messer have a thicker tang that some times tapered as well. This changes the harmonics and handling of the weapon. If the Cold Steel kriegsmesser had a thicker tang, It would very easily be usable in one hand!
2:23 true, my Langmesser is a onehander primarily. But I can wield it with two hands if I want to, even wearing my HEMA gloves. The handle is not actually that much shorter than that of my Kriegsmesser
Love the SwordSage cameo.
Also, I really like the music played during the supporters/sword display segment; beautiful and calming.
Great vid as usual.
Counter weight, balance, extra gripping options.....all of the above.
Hi, that was one of the best Edits, I have ever seen on your channel! Greetings from Germany, the home of the Messer ;-)
Moin servus
:)
Two other aspects of this topic that I think might be worth mentioning:
(1) A longer handle is a slightly more weight-efficient means of adjusting the balance than a heavier pommel, as it puts counterweight at the end of a longer lever.
(2) A longer handle can reduce the range of wrist motion possible when used one-handed, as it will collide with the forearm.
However, I'm not sure of the significance of either of those things. While I've never seen a hilt with the indicators that would prove that the mass-efficiency of a longer handle was more than a happy/insignificant accident, and I can't think of any fencing techniques that would be significantly impeded by a bit of extra grip except for wrist-powered moulinets that are (at least AFAIK) virtually exclusive to 19th-century European swordsmanship, I'm very far from an expert.
A pommel locks your hand into position, which might be beneficial for thrusting and so on, I think thats why rapiers have short handles with heavy pommels
@@winsunwong Two problems with that. First, many/most rapier hilt constructions didn't allow for significant pommel-hand interaction, due to their knuckle-bow and/or finger rings.
Second, so far as grip-retention and hand-positioning goes, there's no ergonomic difference between a short handle terminating in a pommel and a long handle with a correctly shaped bulge in the middle.
If I were to guess, rapier hilts were short and pommeled primarily for aesthetics and/or ease-of-carry. They could just as easily have skipped the pommel in favor of something like the "stalks" on some khanda, but that would look pretty derpy (at least to European sensibilities) and made a weapon that was already inconveniently long for everyday carry even longer and more likely to get in the way.
I just want to say I haven't owned a sword in many years I haven't swung a sword in many many years but I still love watching your videos, thank you.
This leaves out classic long seaxes, which are another classic example of a medieval weapon having a super long seeming hilt for their relative blade length.The handles are on average 2/3 as long as the blade, and seem to act as a counterballance and reach/leverage extender for a shortish but heavy chopping weapon.
If we consider seaxes, the choice to extend the grip for counter-balance is in ways to cut costs since they would be considered "half-tangs" in today's market. Also, even the falx would likely have been more of a one-handed sword with an extended grip due to the prevalence of shields.
I can agree on passive protection, that's absolutely true. I have a training longsword, with a short blade but a long grip, that i've tried to use in one hand. A bunch of times i was, in fact, blocking with the handle, though in a serious fight i wouldn't ever count on that, let alone try to do it intentionally. I do quite like my fingers.
I mean if you had gauntlets maybe? but like also with gauntlets you would have armor as well making it kinda pointless I guess
Wow, what a nice music at the end! Loved the ending you did there, with the weapons showcase and the music!
I can tell you tried a different approach with the edition and this video feels especially well done. It's a very simple topic but the presentation feels right for it, even if I'm more partial to videos being a bit chiller and with broader topics.
Aside from the pacing, the image quality being better than usual for some reason (probably the lighting) but I think this is a good angle for topics like this. You could even redo some older topics with this style to get some new eyes (and hit a bit of that nostalgia for a lot of long time viewers)
Regardless, rock on man!
It's astonishing how much reach you have even with a short langmesser.
My attention span suddenly feels so limber and relaxed... thanks, Skal!
Dude this is one of your best videos EVER. 🤩😂
I love the perspective you bring to this stuff. One of the things I’ve learned from you and others here on CZcams regarding tools and weapons is there’s no such thing as ultimate perfection: just optimization.
Very cool outro melody. Thanks for adding the credits for it in the description
Bro that anime-scoff in the beginning, Skallagrim is a Rival still in his introductory antagonist-role
Great choice of music for the patreon part!
The Jian is what 1st put me on to this
Yes, especially the Han jian I have here has a remarkably long handle.
For a guy going from two handed to single handed swords the biggest problem I had was the loss of control in the swing, especially with more tip heavy swords.
A sword with a longer hilt that is also tip heavy can in a single grip use the longer hilt as a "leaver break" aginst the forearm, offering more control in the swing more akin a two handed grip. This can allow someone for example quickly transision half way in to a cut into a thurst instead with more ease.
I would say this is probably one of your best videos. Super entertaining while still being succinct with very interesting and useful information on a topic I think a lot of people wouldn't normally consider with great editing always showing relevant references. Great job!
Love the inclusion of little sound effects, very nice touches
That multiple tangent on the Thumbnail is killing me 😂 That’s like a fatality of tangents, it HAS TO be intentional.
(talking about the sword/head/sword on the bottom)
I haven’t watched you for a while. Your content has improved greatly. Congrats, your hard work is paying off!
I really enjoy the genuine exploration of the technical aspects of arms, armor, and tactics.
Love these kinds of videos Skall
Good video. Loved the waisted grip in the end.
Brilliant video ‼️
Keep going man
5:05 that is interesting because it is also at the base of many Staff weapon techniques albeit its probably slightly different
6:05 I did this recently in a VR game. I was using a sword with a massive handle, easily 3 hands AND a pommel, and I parried an attack with the pommel, which mechanically flowed into a powerful swing. It felt very cool and stylish... with the caveat that your hands in VR typically don't have a hitbox.
Love the new lighting🙌🙌
Great video Skall, I genuinely hadn’t considered a longer grip as a stand in for a pommel. Keep up the great vids
The pool of points analogy is actually a great one. It's a little more complicated than that when you are actually making a sword, but I could make 2 swords that look identical but feel and work completely differently.
Genuinely think the editing here is fantastic, if for shitty attention span reason. Long time viewer (~2014/2015) so I know the rambles and appreciate them, but I like how succinct and focused this felt :)
A great video. Informative with tasteful amount of humour. Also, a very interesting topic, which I feel like kinda thinking about similarly myself but never really. The manuscript findings were (as always) a good piece of evidence backing up the argument.
Random, semi-related comment: in modern arnis, we sometimes use bastons (training sticks) with two hands by gripping it with one hand and using the other to brace the weapon side's wrist.
The original intent was to give more rigidity to blocks using machetes, since they have thin blades and don't stand up to strikes well.
I love the historical approach you always take with that grain of... madness, I would say ❤
Great video! This really crystalized the entire idea by using examples around the world. I learned some stuff
I just *like* ones with longer handle. It makes easier to change your grip. And in the few times I sparred with a one handed sword I sometimes added a second hand for just a moment in a bind to power through a block. Works way better with a longer handle.
This topic reminds me of a weapon introduced on "Forged in Fire": the "Boa Zande" short sword from the Congo in Africa. Its defining feature was a ricasso (usually with a hole). It makes one wonder not just if the unsharpened base of the blade could be gripped but if such was actually the practice at times.
I was wondering about this a lot after making a foam lightsaber build where I made the handle three hands long wanting to get as much range of use as possible, giving me more reach or more control depending on where I hold it, and it made me wonder why there weren’t many one handed swords that have such long handles
Loved the soundtrack at the end
Nice! I love the fact that it could protect a blow from hitting your arm. Never thought about that
Me neither, until it happened in sparring. :)
I like that VB messer as an example. I have the same one, and have used it vs longswords before. I find having the option to two-hand it helpful on occasion, like if I want a sturdy block vs a powerful strike. Then I can release my offhand and riposte or continue fencing.
I really like the editing in this video, idk if it's necessarily new for you but if it is, more please!
I understand why you changed for a "more heavily edited with more frenetic cuts" style of videos, and I sincerely wish it brings you more visibility. Personally I prefer the old way, not that frenetic feeling, but as long as your content is good (and I have no doubt there), I'll be watching you (oh can't you see ~♪). n_n
(Thank gods, it quiets down in the second half. ^^')
Awesome video! 👏
Good video.
Each time you show that Chinese straight sword I find myself in awe of how sexy it is. Something about minimal guard and decorations really speaks to me
Ah, a fellow minimalist.
Had we seen the Swordsage cutting footage before? I don't remember if we did while he was a guest. It's super cool to see him handle the swords that he's studied
It's an older video. czcams.com/video/0QXxWxti6ks/video.html
The different grip positions and/or sliding along the grip could also make your reach a bit less predictable which might be an advantage in some situations.
Well made content !
Another great video thanks for entertaining :)
That music at the end was beautiful.
Humor was on point in this one, that was a really enjoyable watch.
O.K. That seems well-concidered.
I would also imagine that when surviving a prolonged fight, a "single handed sword" would become a hand-and-a- half sword due to fatigue. This might explain why there are even depictions of fighters putting both hands on a short handle.
Loving the extra content!
It's not how long your handle is, but how good your technique is
He was MESSERing with us!
Brought back wonderful memories of an early D&D game (like 40 years ago) where our party encountered a kobold wielding a +1 2-h shortsword that made him think he was James Bond 😃
0:25 bro just messer with us! (sorry)
There's also the aesthetic of each hilt to consider too. Sometimes having a larger hilt would simply have been showing off, a case of one-upmanship, just like the plate armour codpieces....
Good video Skal.
For algorithmus!
I can't help but feel that CZcamsrs who insist that pommel weight is irrelevant are not using them rightly...
Never thought a long handled sword would be designed for 1 hand. Great explanation!
Thanks!
editing was fun in this one
With every "OR CAN YOU" I can feel Skall embracing his inner Vsause more and more. Scarry stuff, if you ask me
I got a Ming jian a while back where the handle was long enough that I ca comfortably use it two-handed (and the overall length is similar to a katana). Having options on how to wield it is nice.
Your best vid yet. I learned something about Medieval/Ancient weapons (the combat side not the crafting side) that I did not already know more or less. And "bastard sword" was suppose to be my specialty in my combat reenactment group. Thanks!
7:37 @Swordsage !
Honestly, I think theres a misconception that swords fall into rigid categories, that can always be easily identified. My hot take is that an Italian longsword, a jian, and a spadroon aren't all that different. I certainly have my preferences based period aesthetics, cultural meaning and handling preferences but it's not like DND where you are either proficient in a weapon or not, its about how familiar you are with its strengths and weaknesses. Its similar with backswords, dao, uchigatana, and kreigsmessers, there are enough similarities that i don't think they should be rigidly classified like we do, and theres a lot of room for experimenting with different styles, and the use cases they were designed around.
It's also important to note that sword scaling can be affected by things like the person it might've been made for, or what the smith's perception of "big" and "small" were: Much of the time from what I can tell, people online ask, "How long/big were x kind of swords," only to wind up seeing examples similar to what Skall brought up: swords that are barely two-handable for the wielder here (Skall), but might be more possible by someone with smaller physical traits. None of this is to suggest that there is *no* design consistency, but perception can play a part nonetheless.
Source: I'm not an expert. I recently had to do some diving on the topic is all.
There could also be an economical reason for this. If I recall correctly, what basically defines whether something is a sword or a messer is which guild it made. Was it done by the swordmakers or the knifemakers. And both had a tendancy to outsource the blade production. Which basically means that under the right economic circumstances, you can have a situation where one guild gets an order for 100 swords that's due in a month. But the timeframe is too small so, they buy 100 blades and only make 100 handles. But you'd start production probably before you have the blades, so, it'll be like "yeah just put whatever handle we have lying around on the blades that should arrive tommorrow". So, instead of making the perfect handle for the blade, it makes economic sense to make some generic handles that could fit on whatever.
WHOAAAA... What is that sword hilt you show at the end... When showing the Patreon names.. the very first sword especially... Its so cool looking
i like long handle on my messer for the versatility, being able to use two hand for some techniques. Also I unintentionally caught some blows with the handle in sparring and most often its more convenient to grab the crossguard than trying to grab the handle.
Honestly I never thought of counterbalance, but it makes a lot of sense
I had my cinquedea made with a long handle, opens up a lot of options for use
Great video. we no longer see your Lockwood SL1019B sword, do you still have it ?
I'd argue another advantage of a longer handle, especially on a sword with a less significant pommel (or just without one) means that if your hand slides a bit, you still have more handle to grip.
I think in comparison of late medieval blade weapons to early medieval swords, there is also the thing about having henzen gauntlets, for which longer handle is required.
and in early times a sword e.g. a Spatha is more often used from horseback than regarding later period combating in harness is a thing fighting on foot - there is a difference in handling and holding the sword.
and resources on iron and steel is another thing, later, material was easier available, so creating a longer handle was not restricted or should I say possible
Nice song before the outro
just starting the video, 2 minutes in and I got a presumption. - Levers.
Not talking about your leverage or control over the sword, but mechanical levers. The longer the lever, the less force needs to be applied at the end of it to impart a certain amount of torque at the point of pivot. - So with a longer handle you can basically achieve a similar balance to the sword but with a lighter pommel or counter-weight than you would need if the handle was short. - So you're using less material, less over-all weight, but achieve a similar feel and balance for your weapon.
Alternatively it may be helpful in hooking or wrestling moves, or you could let the sword "slide forward" in your hand as you swing, end up holding it by the pommel, in order to maximize its reach for one swing.
That's my guess work though, now time to unpause and listen to Skal's insights.
Here's another possibility that I thought of while watching this video which I'm going to compare to a real-life application that I use. When I work the fish counter at the supermarket where I work, we always start by filling it up with ice from a cart by means of a small, but wide shovel, one that I could use two hands to use because of the weight, but I often tend to use one. The handle on this shovel is absolutely long enough for two hands, and with plenty of space in between the hands. However what I do is hold this shovel quite close to the blade and rest the remainder of the handle against my forearm which stops the weight of the ice on the other end from pulling it down. An extra point of leverage against rotation if you will.
Therefore it wouldn't seem inconceivable to me that a one-handed sword with a longer handle could be used in a similar way, in that it provides more resistance when striking or defending. Of course I'm not a re-enactor or anything, just something I thought of.
I imagine aesthetics often has a bigger role than people give it credit for. Some people may have picked a longer handle because they just liked how it looked.