Are smart people more successful? | Richard Haier and Lex Fridman
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Richard Haier: IQ Test...
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Richard Haier is a psychologist specializing in the science of human intelligence.
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Ill save you all 10minutes. Yes.
Thank you.
I’m shocked really..
😂 pin it!
@@03stmlax hmm. If person A goes through life and can be smarter or dumber. Which version would have a greater chance at being successful?
If you add in moral intelligence, ethical intelligence, and the willingness to challenge your own established beliefs--- then those at the top of the hierarchy are not the most intelligent but manipulate those who are, into serving their causes.
I really understand that pain Lex felt. There’s a helplessness to being human that can be unbearable. I’ll never be able to do X because of something out of my control is a soul crushing realization
The only thing I’d say is some people have a clear tendency to downplay certain types of intelligence, especially when they’re particularly intelligent in one or many aspects, but not others and they are aware enough to realise that. Despite the interviewee’s credentials, I would not hesitate to question his bias. Deriving your view of reality predominantly from academic studies is a flawed idea for so many reasons. I honestly feel like this guy is not really qualified to say things with the vigour he does, but he does regardless..
Also, I appreciate I don’t know your background or circumstance but I would suggest based on your comment you’re highly intelligent and sensitive. I guarantee if you simply focus and practice what you enjoy for a while you’ll be “successful”
(Fwiw I’m from a ‘deprived’ background and very ‘working class’ traditionally and I was able to transcend that despite many setbacks)
Ultimately your comment made me feel very empathetic and I wish you all the best good human. If you think like this you’re actually already ahead of the game…
@@donquixoteupinhere I was a teenager who dreamed big and i had a friend from high school who was gifted and could learn faster and remember easily. No matter how hard i tried i couldn't be as successful as him in my field, he was always ahead of me. but he wasn't interested in contributing to science or world problems etc and it was driving me crazy. Dont get me wrong now i think it is ok to not interested in climate change or scientific research. But when i was teenager, I was just very altruistic and wanted to be useful to the world. But my abilities didn't met the needs of my dreams and i gave up on my dreams. Sometimes you can't be successful at what you want, you have to deal with this truth. But dealing with this truth can make you very sad actually during my teenage years it caused a lot of pain, depression and anxiety even caused some suicidal thoughts. Life is not fair and intelligence is real privelege that nobody talks about. You were born with this body and should be ok with it otherwise you may commit suicide or other self-harming activities as i did before. Trust me these activities are excruciatingly painful and can turn your life into a nightmare. Not recommended.
Lex is hoping that a person can constantly improve in all areas. I emphasize with this. Sometimes hard work isn’t going to be enough
I think that most people know that being the best requires innate talent and hard work. However, I have seen some amazing technical artists that started out drawing like a kindergarten kid as an adult and can sketch people insanely realistically at great speed. Some skills really can be learned with hard work perhaps!
a person can constantly improve with hard work, especially if they are engaging in metacognition and building strategies to improve learning and application themselves (learning how to think, not what to think).
Some people will be able to go higher than others, but there's never a personal limit.
Intelligence is there to help us meet the challenges in our lives, not to give us some test scores we can brag about.
I understand Lex's sadness over personality and other aspects of ourselves that we cannot do anything to correct or improve... but those aspects often serve a function that can be useful in another setting, so our challenge there is to find the setting where that unchangeable aspect is an advantage - evidence the 2016 movie, "The Accountant", where unchangeable characteristic of hyper-awareness of detail found good use as an accountant (among other things).
in otherwords 'know thyself.'
Smart thing what you saying there.
Lex is so wise. Putting his feelings in to words with clarity.
With such slow, winding, confusing clarity.
As a teacher who has taught students spanning the whole range of the cognitive spectrum, from students with severe learning disabilities to the highly gifted, remember that it is always possible to make progress from where you are to where you want to be. Progress just takes more time, daily work, and guidance for people who struggle to learn, but improving skills is possible for everyone. Any step toward progress is success.
The problem is time is limited. There are some students that cannot pass the calculus AP exam before graduation because there is not enough time.
When you say "severe learning disabilities" do you mean students with severe dyslexia who have average to above average IQs, or do you mean students who were extremely low functioning who had well below average IQs? As a former special education teacher, I appreciate your enthusiasm. However, if someone has an IQ below 90, they will not be able to learn to read or write well enough to be considered literate.
I studied computer science never finished it cause of my saviere depressive episodes. Now take a look at my iqs 125IQ on mensa greece, 110iq on ravens progressive matrices on average. 90 iq on wais iv (make me laugh at times ) I was depressed and stressed out from the beginning on wais test.
I was told the G factor was to measure if your partner had a good time
lol
100 IQ
@@imperator_odin Yes, anyone that believes my comment likely has less than an IQ of 100
Disappointed that both of these brilliant individuals didn't see the solution in the entrapment delimma their discussion posed. Always strive to be the best you can be. Whether that's the best dishwasher or scientist. You can always strive to be the best version of yourself.
Forget charisma, what about height? An actual physical characteristic that a person cannot improve by effort, but has a real and measurable effect on their success in life (in many aspects).
Plastic surgery for increasing height exist. It is simply painful and costy as fuck.
the victim mindset u people suffer from is really pathetic
A good motto is focus on what you can improve on and don't waste time thinking about what you cannot change. There are plenty of short people who succeeded in every aspects . So it cannot prevent one from success.
Yes, it takes more than intelligence/intellect (personality, charisma). For example: he ability to suck up is very helpful (I learned this as an actress who's shown symptoms of being on the spectrum). At my office day-job I found personality & charisma to be important too. Meritocracy is a scam. You can take all the acting classes, do you best when you do get cast-but in the end, it's the ones who hit the casting couch who win. Thank you, both. And yes, Lex, it's life's realities are painful. The older i get, the less impressed I am with success because I've seen what it takes to get there (and been trampled on by people trying to get there). I'm learning to accept my life as is. 🙏🏼🙏🏼
You're looking at your bosses like they are significant and know what they're doing. Sucking up isn't required. Earning respect is. The people who truly matter would prefer you to stick your head out and make a suggestion if you thought it through. They aren't scared of good ideas.
@@hercules71185 to be clear I personally don't suck up (although I'm not gonna lie I do get VERY BITTER about losing to people who do). Just pointing out that's its a “King Lear” World, not an ideal one. The higher-higher ups tend to like me, middle-management not so much. Better to keep one's head down with them.
Meritocracy is a scam
If you are truly great at what you do, they suck up to you. Rest is noise.
@@javanesemystic Those are the ones who still feel they need to put down others to look better by contrast. The "higher-higher" ups tend to be there by actually earning a position and they respect everyone else who tries and will contribute to the greater good.
Can't lie, this was painful to hear but I think I needed to.
This is going on my bedroom. wall. "Your basic role and value in society is largely within your control." - Lex Fridman
That SAT story is interesting. In the 7th grade in the 90s I scored high enough on the SATs to get into any college in my state. Fast forward to now and considering everybody else I knew who was in the same tier as me this is a true study. We're all financially and professionally successful, but only the upcoming decades will determine the life expectancy part
@@guitarazn90210 Duke University did a thing called the Talent Identification Program where academically gifted kids would take the SATs in the 7th grade. If you scored high enough you got to go to Duke for an awards ceremony.
@@Ruckus45 Wow that's impressive. Congrats on making it.
@@guitarazn90210 thanks, but in reality it didn't mean much. My folks had 1 high school diploma between the two of them so they had no clue what to do with me. It wasn't until my mid 20s when I figured it all out.
Raw intelligence certainly helps, but it isn't every piece of the puzzle.
I think this has more to do with personality. g factor doesn't affect your natural preferences, Einstein was not that smart when dealing with relationships, managing feelings, seeing what is popular ... The intelligence has a limit and we are conditioned (at least partly) by our personality
Successful people work on 3 pillars: Beliefs, habits, skills.
Working on those 3 pillars turns possible for them to apply the success equation: Progress + Consistency x Time = Success.
Success means: Get what you want, achieve a specific goal.
Knowing that Richard is undoubtably smarter than me, hearing him say he could never be a successful theoretical physicist gets to me, as I am starting my master degree in theoretical physics this September... I might leave the field afterwards, to do something more on my level.
Well .. yes your certainly caught up in a conundrum.if your heart is in it go for it. You might look back at this interview and feel it prepared you mentally . Could also look at it like it’s a part of your own particular journey that could lead to failure but the failure was necessary to prepare you for your next endeavor..
But the thought patterns and meta skills you acquire from learning theoretical physics are going to help you in many ways in the future. Important thing is that you are keep pushing yourself and learning new things.
@@hansu7474 Absolutely right, good point.
if you were able to get this far, you might be smarter than you realize, maybe you're just underestimating yourself
@@fahimrind9714 Thanks for the kind words, maybe, but I do feel like I’m slow in getting new concepts to the bone, while I’ve known people that would understand them in no time. Truth is I don’t know for sure, but I’ll give it a good try.
I'm not sure if you read the comments Lex, but if so, you should interview Scott Barry Kaufman. He has an interesting perspective on this matter.
what is wisdom verses intelligence ?
Actually it depends on how you translate
to yourself and how you understand these both words : smart and success .
For example
Someone can think that is smart because he or she managed to rob or
cheat another human being and to me that is = misunderstanding .
Someone who is really smart make our life easier like for example the one who created electricity or washing machine .
This is just what’s called perspective
This sounds like the fallacy of seeing statistics but not individuals. Statistically, intelligent people are more likely to be successful, yes. But statistics don’t exist, only individuals do, and there are tons of intelligent individuals who don’t become successful, and tons of individuals who aren’t particularly intelligent who do become successful.
That made zero sense.
Uh…yeah it does…
“There are tons of intelligent individuals who don’t become successful, and tons of individuals who aren’t particularly intelligent who do become successful.”
What’s confusing?
@@NirvanaClay Just because you can spell the word “statistics,” that does not mean you understand statistics.
You don't actually know that until you test all those people for the G factor. Perhaps most of the people you deem not particularly intelligent actually are and you are incapable of seeing that. Statistics are just a representation of the evidence which does exist. You saying that statistics don't exist, ONLY individuals do is what makes zero sense.
Always very very interesting convos on this show
The question used to answer itself, but the absurdity is that the answer "yes" has now become controversial and on it's way to becoming "taboo". What that portends is that "success", however you wish to define it, will no longer be based on ability but simply on "luck", a "magic trick", or the political imposition of enforced outcomes vis-a-vis our DEI overlords.
The short answer is "it depends", and we would not be able to measure this accurately.
Life expectancy
Income
Complexity of your occupation
More patents, publications and tenure
How do you separate personality traits from intelligence? There are correlation between certain aspect of your personality with intelligence e.g openness. It begs the question; can openness not be learned? Am also intrigued that alot of very intelligent people aren't successful because of a lack of discipline in form of conscientiousness ( some researchers including J. Peterson has alluded to this tendency to be less organized, I guess responsible for why there are high IQ individuals who aren't "successful"!).
It’s interesting to hear this somewhat narrowly defined in terms of merely “intelligence” (though I appreciate there could be good reasons why) without considering in some significant sense so-called “neurodivergence”
Brain enhancement chips and genetic editing are within the reach of todays young adults I think. I would definitely want to enhance myself as much as possible in every way. That would be fulfillment for me.
So I want to be an architect, I have a slightly above average IQ of 118 does this mean that i will not have the inteligence to be a architect given that it is an endeavor that requires alot of abstract thinking?
No, you're totally capable of whatever goals are associated with becoming an architect.
No, you're totally capable of whatever goals are associated with becoming an architect.
Maybe, maybe not. If you listen to the whole podcast you will find there are people that are intelligent in certain areas. You could be very intelligent in math but not in other areas. They are discussing the G factor or general overall intelligence which correlates to the ability to reason your way through problems. It could be you will be good at it or that you can do it but it will be harder for you than others around you. The fact that you have a desire to be one would tell me you probably have an aptitude for it already. If you are questioning a very expensive decision for a future career, take some aptitude tests to help you see where your capabilities are.
This planet/dimension rewards adaptability over intelligence. Evolution requires adaptation as its primary function.
It's surprising that someone as intelligent as Lex doesn't understand the power of genetics.
You don't have to be smart to be successful, but being smart sure does increase your chances of being sccessful
What do you mean with "your goodness as a human being?" If you say all humans have the same value you have to define value. If you define value as GDP than someone more intelligent is more valuable. Should we look at redifining value just so thst we can stay with the idea that we all have the same value?
Well weigh the costs of redefining value. Tell the truth and create resentment thus creating instability, keep the lie going so those with gifts can still draw breath on this earth?
Lex, you need to have Yulia Latynina on your podcast. Discuss Ukraine with her.
But, ¿ What would happen if a person trains different cognitive components for several hours per day? That should increase the overall G factor measured by the IQ tests. And if you can increase your IQ results just by training the IQ test or components related to the IQ test. ¿ How do you know if a person really has a high IQ if he spends time doing activities related to cognitive IQ components or direct IQ items in his free time?. ¿If IQ tests are trainable, how are you sure if the IQ tests are really accurate in that respect?.
I received a letter from them to take some test when I was in 6th grade
Can strong people lift more weight?
Are people in high paid positions smarter than dumb people, obviously yes.. are there homeless people with iq's over 200 with no intent of changing there lives, also yes.. is being intelligent the key to success? No, wanting to be successful makes you successful being smart just helps..
There is an abstract on PubMed that stars that only 2% of people with IQs of 130 live or below the federal poverty line. However, 25% of people with IQs of 80 live at or below the federal poverty line. Success is much more likely with an above average IQ.
Wants do not make sterling outcomes happen. Wanting to be successful doesn't make a person successful.
The object of life is to do what you can with what you have been gifted. There is no such thing as equality of outcome. Rather than have angst over that which is beyond you (only so many can play pro-ball or be Yo Yo Ma) one should seek to find peace within their domain. Or change their domain or ponder what success means for them. Takes more than a top 1/4th percentile to keep cars on the road or food on a nation's tables. Or perhaps there are even those with capabilities that entirely reject the Western desire to put people in square holes?
I don't think that being a theoretical physicist means you're not intellectually gifted. I know there is this push to associate high IQ with mathematical achievement, but some people really just don't enjoy mathematics. If you don't enjoy what you're doing then you're going to be less inclined to pursue that field; you're not going to study it, master it, or explore it.
William Shakespeare was said to have a higher IQ than Einstein (although I don't know we can even tangibly measure the IQ of dead people).
How is it fair when some students have a drug addicted mum and an abusive dad, and some students get an MIT tutor every day after school? No way IQ measures a students maximum ability, it only measures how much they have been nurtured which is a useless metric. We need problems that are truly abstract and no amount of previous knowledge can aide with getting a higher score. We are in the age of chatGPT so we need students who have a higher maximum potential for problem solving and not students who can regurgitate what their MIT tutor has taught them and they have practiced a similar problem 300 times before hand.
Am I the only one thinking that the Founding Fathers are being misrepresented here? Jefferson clearly wasn’t talking about intelligence, biology or success when stating that “all men are created equal”. He was talking about rights - basic inalienable human rights - which in a sense implies the opposite. You have the right to pursue happiness, you don’t have the right to happiness.
Yeah, when he was saying that it was with a backdrop of the complexities of European monarchy/aristocracy, and ideas about "blood". Much of the US aristocracy at the time were self-made men outside of the European nobility or failed/exiled European nobility making a fresh go of it in the New World.
"All men are created equal" and no laws "working corruption of blood" where about people (well ... males of European decent at least) being born with equality in social status. It was not really focused on equal abilities.
You can train yourself to be less introverted.
No, not really. It's a dimension of your personality. You can hardly change anything about it.
A person can improve their social skills. However, an introvert is most likely not going to be able to suddenly be energized with constant social interactions.
Not. Alwayss
OK Lex, I've watched all of your videos with Richard. Here's what I've taken away from them.... You are terrified that he will, provide you with evidence, of how ignorant you think you actually are. Now, we know you aren't, but, we can hope! LOL Please don't base your conversations on anything other than your opinion!!! Have a great one!! :)
I've been watching a few of these videos and the titles and topics of the videos are very peculiar. I sense a tone of elitism, classism. I have 2 PhDs in my family who are smart but I know many others who are smart. Also, I don't equate IQ to intelligence. What we should be encouraging human kind to aspire towards is wisdom, self discovery and purpose. Not this dangerous discussion about intelligence and genetics. Clearly there are accomplished billionaires who made some unwise decisions as of late. We tend to overlook these things. Character is more valuable to society than IQ scores, wealth accumulation
bro stop virtue signalling. It's well established that intelligence correlates with lifetime success, and that's a fact whether you like it or not. To ignore some facts because you don't like the way it makes you feel is the beginning of disaster.
Your last sentence is true and well said, but IQ is literally intelligence. Nothing wrong with acknowledging this, and it doesn’t change your larger point.
@@zayed4675 yeah that's not a fact and you are no authority. And success is subjective. A single mom who drops out of high school but raises three healthy, well adjusted kids is highly successful. Not just some PhDs telling the world what to do.
@@AbrahamJankans Every factor that any person would associate with success including physical health, income, and social relationships is positively correlated with IQ and intelligence.
If you're gonna say success is subjective, you're just evading a definition of success. Why don't you define it for us then?
@@zayed4675 Happily. There's plenty of publicly available definitions. One could say success is, "the ability to achieve a well defined goal intentionally." Not to add to the conversation, but EQ is highly underrated. Wow there are some high IQ individuals with low EQ or even personal skills who don't achieve. Good conversation nonetheless. Wish you much success 👍
So this guys definition of success is publications and tenure at universities. I guess everyone defines it differently
I'm glad people actually work at Burger King. Because I love a double Whopper with cheese every once in awhile
For example, …look at you when you first started making videos, you are a lot different now,than when you first
Started
So your saying a man can't be a woman.
I disagree...smart ppl do random dumb s*** too. Therefore, dumb ppl can become smart ppl aka theoretical physcist too...pretty sure i spelt physicist wrong too
dumb ppl do more random dumb s*** than smart people
If I'm a Ford, can I become a Cadillac?
No. Not in America today. It’s all trades. The economy is bad when it comes to upward mobility and ease of finding jobs in your field.
@Graf von Losinj Chris Hedges has written about the situation as well. How the educated will be ostracized and the media will become even dumber.
Man I remember listening to *NSYNC back in the day. They where the shizz
so basically is u dont have it u lost it ,thats sad
Smart people get more out of life then the average people. More enriched lives.
No. Many smart people who don’t have money as a motive. I’m one of them. Success is defined differently to differ people. What is success is the question.
What can change the nature of a man?
No! They are deliberately self-destructing ! Lex why don't you man up and dare to take a risk for once in your life ?
We need not to be sad. We need to be angry, vigorous, energetic.
If something is that important in life, in protecting our country government should eat dirt, but finance the research intended to increase G, to eliminate biological, genetical factors that limit IQ.
no offense I dont understand this guest properly
Unfortunately it is, because the lower IQ you have the more likely you are to commit crime, all things considered.
It is a disaster that we invest so little in tools of thought, drugs that increase G factor.
We know perfectly well that it is reasoning that solved most of our problems in the past and fail to at least try to develop it.
Cute, they still live in their fantasy world of unicorns and meritocracy
It's funny his criteria of patents, tenureship etc do not apply to the very very top. It's quite dated thinking.
ᵖʳᵒᵐᵒˢᵐ
It’s interesting to hear him say -“If I was out of shape I could just lose weight”…… That’s the same thing as an outgoing person telling you “Yo, stop being shy. Just have charisma.” Everyone’s struggle is a struggle. I highly doubt over weight people WANT to be overweight. They probably experience the same “pain” as you.
No, there’s a difference between things you can easily change and things that are extremely hard to change, wired into your brain. Changing fundamental aspects of your personality does not compare at all with changing diet and starting to work out.
To your general point however, I do agree that most have a struggle to deal with in life if not many more, and it can’t be undermined.
@@KevinS47 That’s where the disagreement lies - Who are we to decide what is “easily” changeable for someone else ? Becoming (significantly) outgoing and losing (significant) weight both require a real change in personality.
The point is far more money are invested in creating weight loss drugs, training programs, diets, psychotherapy, applications or social skills than in IQ gaining programs, drugs, applications.
Lex has proven once again yhat he valoiea people on pfincipala oyhers than shallpw simplostic measurements , that he appresiates the goodness of peoples humaniyy
ASHIRAH Wendy Fridman Wife of mr. Lex 😂❤
The "painful" issue. Doesn´t sound like too smart an issue.
I understand why Lex feels pain hearing there's fixed intelligence that correlates with success. As a guy myself that has been fixated on improving my IQ through pills, brain games, chess etc; I believe we over glorify having a high IQ (rightfully so) without understanding the cost of having that IQ. For example loneliness from less people to relate with, paralyses through over analysis, the burden of finding something challenging enough to stay stimulated mentally, over thinking and whatever unknown responsibilities come from having a high IQ. Nothing is given without a cost. I think the pain of knowing IQ maybe fixed is for the people with low IQ's but maybe AI may even out the playing field in the future.
Lexis black pilled 🙂
Amazon, Tesla, Microsoft made them wealthy. All technology base. Not all smart people care about business. What is success? Money??
It's funny that Lex finds it painful because he is probably in the top quartile of the top 1% of IQ. You don't become a Machine Learning Academic with a low G score.
That is a surprising lack of self awareness but large magnitude of empathy for us mere mortals.
@@dirtydogthecold5430 really? Didn't his team publish the ground breaking paper on self driving cars?
That's probably correct, but he's also in the bottom 10-15% for charisma.
@@chesshooligan1282 If that was true, his podcast won't be so successful.
@@moonmonkeyboy2401 Do you find Nicola Sturgeon charismatic? How about Stephen Hawking? I'm sure I could find many more examples. There's also the fact that the people that run CZcams can, to a certain extent, decide who is going to be successful and who isn't going to be.
@@chesshooligan1282 Well, I think that you can be charismatic to a certain group of people and not so charismatic to others. Stephen Hawking is charismatic to the people that follow him. I agree that youtube algorithms can decide who will be successful though.
Lex is being white pilled
He is a liar
I don't think he is a liar.
But, I don't trust him.