The Strangely Melancholy Ending to The Good Place - Brandon Sanderson
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2021
- I’m a little behind everyone else when it comes to this show, as my wife and I tend to give television programs a good rest between seasons, rather than binging the entire thing as once. So I only just watched the ending to The Good Place, and found that I wanted to talk about it. So, fair warning, there will be massive spoilers in this video. But, I mean, I’m kind of a year late on this anyway.
My channel’s primary purpose is to offer a professional novelist’s perspective on storytelling, with an eye toward helping aspiring writers hone their craft. I’ll therefore be looking at the finale of The Good Place through that lens--trying to pick apart what writers can learn from it. However, I’ll try to offer insight to those of you who are interested in stories in general. So I hope you’ll stick around, even if you aren’t yourself a writer.
Let me know if this was useful to any of you writers out there, or interesting to the rest of you. I can’t promise how often I’ll do this for films, but if you enjoy it, I can do more. - Zábava
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Sanderson really just a full-blown CZcamsr now lol
Only thing missing was a SkillShare ad
@@guilhermearaujo5868 or NordVPN :D
@@studynot757 or even better a campfire sponsorship
When Shadiversity interviewed him, he said that Brandon would be able to run a very good CZcams Channel if he had editors to handle the video production element.
I think Brandon has come to believe in this.
@@studynot757 or Mistborn
Honestly the heaven they created in the end is just my ideal one. Being able to consume every piece of media you couldn’t while alive, spending time with loved ones who join you one after the other, and let the Jeremy Berimy advance until I ultimately feel that it has to end.
Same for me. I felt like they capture what we all want super well. Eternity is too long for me to have sentience, at some point we all need to rest.
I'm more on Sanderson's side here. I don't believe that there is any point after which I will want an existence without pain, deprivation, or true lack to end. I would always find somewhere, somewhen, or something more to go to, to see, to reinvision in order to gain a sense of meaning. Like Tahani, I wouldn't see the need to end to be an actual necessity.
I also agree with him (and disagree with philosopher Todd May who guided the series) that actions only have meaning if death comes ultimately. Numerous immortal characters in literature have meaning and place because of what they do with other people, their inability to die notwithstanding.
I liked that even in heaven there was the pain of loss. And the fear of not knowing what was on the other side. It just felt like a nice vacation before the true end! If you don't like this idea of heaven then the true end is just waiting for you to walk through the door. I loved it!
Indeed.
I agree that the characters definitely felt fulfilled; Sanderson is seeing pessimism because from their view humans don't actually gain fulfillment from completing things but from doing things.
It's the argument of the destination vs the journey. If the journey fulfills you and makes you happy then it doesn't matter how many times you arrive at the same destination just go back and do it again.
Though I tend to lean in Sandersons direction it is not impossible for me to imagine that both types of people truly exist. (Truly in the sense they actually only get fulfillment from the destination not that they happen to think they do).
So I can accept the characters are fulfilled and no longer can get further fulfillment in continuing on.
I think the characters WERE fulfilled, and their eventual acceptance of being fulfilled was their reason for passing in. They had experienced and done everything they needed to, and were at peace. The pessimism you describe was about as far from what I experienced watching as possible, I don't think I've had a more profound time watching a tv show.
I'm with you on this one! I feel like the characters who passed through the portal recognized that they had grown and lived and loved as much as they possibly could while remaining fundamentally their human selves. They make the choice to let go of what has been in order to move on to what is to come even though it takes the courage to go fully into the unknown.
I agree with both of you completely in this. True beauty is always touched with some form of melancholy, I've found. It elevates it
I completely agree with this. Its exactly what I saw when I watched the ending. I felt like they had been fullfilled and happy for quite some time. I would also like to add that the style of ending they went with is what I call bitter sweet. Bitter in that we dont want to see these characters go but sweet because we know they are doing whats best for them/others. Bitter/Sweet endings are my favorite as it leaves an emotional impact.
Agreed, I don't see it as pessimistic at all. I see it as objectively the best possible form of an afterlife.
Fully agreed. Even Jason and Chidi said it bluntly- a feeling of contentment in their souls.
I found it peaceful and satisfying. I really liked how they pointed out that human minds did not evolve to exist for eternity and that constant pleasure can become just as torturous as constant pain eventually. When you find ultimate fulfillment, piling pleasure on top of pleasure will just sour it. Having the choice to actually to end gives that fulfillment meaning.
Death, ending, is ultimately a melancholy thing, and I think it would have been wrong to have a different tone.
Perfectly said.
"Piling pleasure on top of pleasure will just sour it" - perfectly said. The world is best experienced through contrasts. You'll never understand you're living in the light if it never gets dark.
Tahani becomes a Bodhisattva: the Buddha who, after achieving Enlightenment decides to linger in our world, refusing transcendence, to help others liberate themselves through her compassion. I thought it was an amazing choice for her!
You are right about Buddhism and this show. But I didn't see any self-annihilation. They are tired of the old life and want a change, a new existence. They continued to exist as these lights, which apparently are individuals with plans. Think about the mail that Ted Danson received at the end. This said, the oddest thing about the show is that the alleged monk was in love with the robot Janet. Although nice Janet was nice, she was a robot after all.
I don't see the ending as an expression that the characters' quest was hollow at all. I see the characters looking fondly back at their quest, feeling proud and satisfied. Finally ready to accept a TRUE ending because they are ready for it.
Life before death.
Strength before weakness.
Journey before destination.
Those poetic tenets that you wrote all imply that there must eventually be an end.
damn fine points!
I agree - I found the ending to be satisfying, and even hopeful. One of the challenges with real life is that there might not be enough time to do everything we want to do, which can sometimes lend a sense of urgency, fear and hopelessness to things. In The Good Place, they had that time, and at the end I saw walking through the archway as the ultimate symbol of each of the characters having found peace.
@@JPWrites I agree with you. I didn't see the ending as them deciding "it wasn't enough" or that they were "dissatisfied". I felt that they'd gotten to a point where they'd "completed" existence. My husband actually majored in philosophy so while watching this show with him, I often paused it and asked him about the philosophers and the philosophies that were being touched on. I felt them walking through the arch was like completing a good book. When you get to the end of a really good book, you don't usually close the book and think that you're dissatisfied that the book didn't continue. When the story needed to end, it ended and it was good. Letting it go on forever (even if you love the characters and enjoy the plot), would simply make the story/plot/characters lose their meaning. The best part of the series was that, even though final death was an option, it wasn't the only option.
In relation to this though, you should totally watch the series with a philosopher. The discussions it spurred were fantastic.
A crossover I did not expect but very much welcome.
I love this and love that you're doing it, especially about one of my favorite shows. It's a great analysis.
That said our interpretations on the final theme differ. I don't think they're saying human beings can't find fulfillment, and therefore eventually must stop existing. I think it's the opposite: that we can find fulfillment, and when we do, nonexistence is no longer something bad. They didn't choose self-annihilation because they weren't happy. They chose it because they were complete.
Chidi mentions the feeling of his skin feeling the same as the air around him. As if he has come as close to being one with the universe as possible while still in that form. So the next step was simply to become even more one with the universe.
I don't think the good place was, as you said, "not enough." I think for the characters, it was exactly enough.
Agreed-this is exactly how I saw it. Not really “self-annihilation” as much as being at perfect peace and not needing anything else from the universe.
The ending felt beautiful and hopeful to me. I’m startled that so many found it pessimistic and unsatisfying.
Excellently said. In fact until I saw this I had not considered that the ending might be seen as pessimistic or sad. It had seemed so peaceful and complete to me. Few stories leave me so satisfied with the ending, nor so okay with the story being over.
This.
@@OtherMeanings The term I would have used to describe the tone of the finale is "wistful", to be honest. I'd agree with sad, but not pessimistic.
I disagree with your argument on the philosophy here. The show makes it quite clear that without death, life has no meaning. Please recall the conversation between Michael and Eleanor in S4E12:
Michael: You said that, "Every human is a little bit sad all the time because you know that you're going to die. But that knowledge is what gives life meaning."
Eleanor: The way to restore meaning to the people in the Good Place is to let them leave.
This conversation is literally an argument from the authors of the show that there is no possibility of finding meaning in life without the possibility of death. So, it is not the case that "we can find fulfillment, and when we do, nonexistence is no longer something bad" but that we literally cannot find fulfillment without the prospect of non-existence. Eleanor's use of the word "restore" indicates that in the current iteration of the Good Place, there is no meaning and it has to be brought back, using the prospect of non-existence to do so.
“The world is full of people who long for immortality who have no idea what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.” - Dorothy Parker
"Janet remains Janet"
and there is no better ending for Janet's arc than this.
literally the most satisfying part, to my mind. with everything else that happens, all that Janet wanted was to be able to continue to have that sense of what it is to be a human, and she gets to have that, not TOO far off from the ending, but also not so far from the start that it takes too long to get her there.
it's a wonderful thing. wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
I also find it beautiful that she is able to continue the memory of the other characters
@@dreamingnight13 great point, even more satisfying.
I don’t see any of the characters as being unfulfilled at the end. The point is that they are all fulfilled. Once you are fulfilled, what is the motivation to continue action or existence? Nothing you can do will make you more fulfilled, you are fulfilled. Nothing you can do will make your (after)life better or more meaningful. Why continue to act? There is, literally, no where to go but down.
I also do not see their end through the door as oblivion. It is clear that, while they cease existence as an individual sentience, their experience and essence permeates the world and affects good change and inspiration in everything. It is a kind of apotheosis, the farthest thing from oblivion that there is
Yes, very well said.
"The farthest thing from oblivion there is."✨💓
And in that apotheosis, they aid others in overcoming their flaws to become worthy of the good place themselves. eleanor's soul fragment inspires an act of selflessness, for example. Chidi, to choose without fear. Jason, a love of jalapeno poppers...
I think Brandon's point is a wonderful example of the core difference between western and eastern philosophy. As some who grew with a very eastern concept of the afterlife, the idea that oblivion is the one true end is really cathartic to me. Chidi talks about the ocean and the waves and that is LITERALLY the most optimistic ending to me. The concept of the self is overrated compared to the vastness of the universe. And it's incredible that Mike shur thought people should have conversations like this.
Wow, Nithun, that is so wonderfully put. I (unfortunately) know little of eastern philosophy (any recommendations?) - but I agree with your take whole heartedly
@@chramesly I havent actually read a lot of philosophers. Most of my knowledge comes from an indian upbringing and my mom. She has read tons and tons on the topic and we love talking about stuff like this. A good recommendation should be Osho(he got a bad rap for some problematic shit in the US, but his take on eastern philosophy is on point). Jaggi Vasudev is also quite popular and has similar philosophies. Buddhism in general has some excellent takes on the subject, so maybe some reading on that could be great.
Essentially, it can be summarised by saying that all of us are just one part of the whole. There is only one true spirit. Buddhists say that buddha is the universe. Further arguments state, that all of us are part of the whole spirit of the universe. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So the best thing for the universe and yourself should be to lose the sense of self that we are all STUCK(yeah thats the actual idea) with. Enlightenment is losing the illusion/Maya of the SELF and attaining oneness with the universe
@@ninnusridhar in Western thought all what you said would be hight of pride
Wonderful criticism and analysis. I personally view it as the concept that instead of fullfiment being the end goal its meaning. And for something to be meaningful it must have finaliry
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl Lol. But it's basically the opposite. It's complete submission to the will of the universe. You are only a small part of the whole. You are but a fleeting wave. It's the most humbling thing I can imagine honestly
The way I interpret it, the characters ARE fulfilled and feel no reason to keep existing for infinity. They're ready to move on to what's next because they're happy. It still was a melancholy and slightly haunting ending, however
Wonderful essay. Made me all weepy like when I watched the finale last year. I would disagree about the interpretation of the ending though. I don't believe the characters stepping through the archway was about unfulfillment (is that a word? I'm making it a word) and self-annihilation. I think the characters stepping through the archway was about them achieving ultimate fulfillment and then choosing to become apart of the whole, rather than continue their existence as an individual being. Which I think is best demonstrated when Eleanor steps through and her essence ends up at Michael's front door. It seemed like the writers were saying, Eleanor isn't gone, none of them are. They're eternal, they're all around, they are everything, and we are all connected. Yes, it was melancholy, but it was beautiful too. Thanks for the thoughtful video!
Where does a wave go when it reaches the shore? They outright state it when Eleanor is talking to chidi on the couch. There's some classic buddhist philosophy here. The show is "largely" non religious but the themes certainly are leaning buddhist . The ending isn't sad, or pessimistic - it's just the wave returning to the ocean.
The beautiful part of the ending was Eleanor, after she had become her best possible self and fulfilled in every way, walking through the doorway and becoming a force for good in the universe, helping someone make a better choice. I disagree with Mr Sanderson (but I love your books!), I think the ending is incredibly optimistic. Eleanor became her best self, lived untold hundreds/thousands of lifetimes helping her best friends/loved ones becoming their best selves, lived untold hundreds/thousands more lifetimes with said loved ones in happiness, and then leaves the universe a slightly better place than it was when she knew she was done.
This was a really good analysis of the show, it's kinda sad that the fact that you can disagree with parts something and still appreciate its quality is not a popular view, when it should be common sense
Personally I find myself agreeing more with you and Tahani about being fulfilled by helping others/friends and love and living eternally, but I think it's heavily implied that after the "annihilation option" is taken the souls are at least partially reincarnated as shown by the man that receives Eleanor's "energy"/soul giving Michael the letter in a nod to Eleanor's first selfless act on the show (returning a wallet) and Michael saying to him "Take it sleazy" - wich is peak Eleanor.
Love this instruction and commentary. This channel is a gem, Brandon.
Brandon's provided us with something that I didn't realize I craved until I saw it; he's giving us the opinions of an expert storyteller on the works of other storytellers, which I find much more delightful than any number of reviews by professional critics. Frankly, he could be wearing a gunnysack and recording the video with a potato and I'd still watch it.
More Sanderson reviews please. I loved this so much even though I've not seen the show. The spoilers made me interested in it even. Journey before destination and all that.
pls go watch it, it is both hilarious and contemplative
I wish you watched without the spoilers but still do it is so so good
And now I’m sad about the Rithmatist…
Chalk-fans unite... to sulk in the corner, forgotten by the Brando Sando.... feelsbadman.
@@TheSilverOrn Ikr waiting on a question about The Rithmatist to get through to Brandon's Q&A, but it can be said it's most likely not a priority project for Brandon, considering the success of his other series in comparison.
You could say it's a tragedy...
That was my first Sanderson book and I was told it didn't have a sequel nor would it. That's why I read it, then I get to the "To Be Continued" part at the end and got pissed there was no sequel XD
Not having read the rithmatist, I thought he was referring to warbreaker haha
Brandon's first review on his channel: Project Hail Mary - one of my favorite books.
Brandon's second review: The good place - one of my favorite shows.
This was already my favorite youtube channel, and it just keeps becoming more so!
He did a review of the Sonic movie
I'm part of the "immediately bought Hail Mary as my next read after hearing Brandon recommended it" club. It's a good club. We read this really good book.
It felt like a Buddhist take on heaven to me lol. To be is to want. To want is to suffer. Accept that your life is incidental and in constant flux with the universe, you find a measure of peace by not clinging to permanence. Long story short ... heaven would not be enough. I could be way off obviously, just how it made me feel.
Yeah, he even said it was a pantheist or panentheist view. That's pretty consistent with those outlooks.
It's very similar to the way humans act in Iain M. Banks The Culture books. In a sci-fi society so advanced that everyone is immortal, most people tend to kick off after 400 years or so, and everyone's okay with it. They find fulfillment, they find peace, and they decide to stop being. That isn't true for everyone, many people join some kind of group consciousness. Some people transfer their consciousness, one bit at a time, into an immortal artifical lifeform. Some people freeze themselves and wake up every 500 years to see what's changed. Some people just decide to *endure*, and never find true fulfillment.
It's not heaven, it's The Good Place, for a reason.
For me, calling it heaven makes it God-centric and denotes a fundamental failure in understanding what the show was about in the first place. Being simply the Good Place allows for the whole show's themes to existing growth, enlightenment, etc, of human nature. None of which require a god. In fact gods are a crutch for the weakminded viewed from that perspective. The existence of a god in the show wouldn't require growth, or betterment, just worship.
@@insertclevernamehere2506 That's certainly one perspective about the effects of the existence of a God or gods in the lives of people. But strangely enough, I've never heard monotheists claim anything approaching this about their religion. Rather, I've heard many counter-claims to the contrary, especially among Christians. In the Christian view, in order to become a fully-realized human being and achieve your full potential, worship of God is essential.
My favourite author and my favourite show!!
i remember crying like a baby watching this finale and then crying more about it later
Same! I can't even watch this review because I know I'll start bawling again! It was the best finale I've ever seen--they didn't get too corny and it was truly thought-provoking. I felt silly sobbing over a TV show in front of my husband but when I looked at him, he was wiping away tears too.
"I wish we were all willing to acknowledge when a work is well executed even when it isn't our favorite style." This is exactly how I feel everything Garth Ennis writes superheroes.
An ending that I do not want....but also one that made such perfect sense that any other one would seem cheap and hollow in comparison.
The ending was melancholy, but I believe it is one appropriate way to tell a story that is about dying. The afterlife presented in "The Good Place" allows humans to become the best version of themselves and to have eternities to do everything they could possibly want to do. I think these are the two concerns people have in real life.
When a person honestly confronts the fact that one day they will die and they don't know for certain what comes after, they must decide what will make them satisfied with the time they have left. People want to explore all their desires and express their best self, often best loving self to friends, and family, and the world.
"The Good Place" provides an afterlife that represents everything we wish we could do with our real lives before the end. The uncertainty of what lies beyond the gate is very much like the uncertainty we face at our own physical deaths.
This was basically everything I felt about this finale but wasn't smart enough to put into words. Excellent essay, thank you.
My new favourite author! Brandon Sanderson i love you and your work!!
An now im loving your youtube channel! You got such great oppinions an insight!
I finished this show over a year ago and it's amazing how accurate your comments are to my emotions at the show's resolution. Thanks for this brilliant video essay. I hope to see more content like this in the future!
First he takes on Fantasy/Sci-fi publishing, then he takes on YA publishing, then he takes on Booktube, then he takes on media podcasting, now he takes on video essays. What's next? ASMR? Mukbang? Cooking videos? Tech reviews? Vocal coach reactions?
I'm really, really living for this.
Hello again Mr. Brandon, hope you have a very long life. I love your novels, please create more of them. Thanks!
I loved the ending. It made so much sense to me. You get everything you want, do everything you can possibly dream off. There's nothing left to wish for or enjoy. Ultimately never ending existence must be boring af
Maybe it feels like... You're on a group vacation or an awesome party with your favorite people. You've had the best time! But when you've had enough, you know it. It's not because things went sour, or they've become unsatisfying. More like, your own bed sounds really good to you right now, and, you get to leave on a high note buzzing with all the love you feel.
I loved their concept of heaven and I was really moved by each character's ending 🥰
This was an unexpected crossover of interests but man I digg it. There's a few different ways to look at and interpret this show and I applaud Brandons maturity in tackling the themes/philosophy of this show. In spite of how it conflicts with his own personal philosophy. I personally see this show as a love letter to existentialism and absurdism. In stead of seeing the ultimate end/oblivion as signifying a lack of fulfillment. It is the ultimate fulfillment, Humans are blessed and cursed by the awareness of our own mortality. That the journey of life ends, allows the choices we make have weight and meaning. Free will to choose our own meaning in life. The journey to self improvement never ends but journey of life is a separate matter(at least to me). Another way of looking at it is that the afterlife in the good place (after it's fixed) is what we could have on earth in the near future, maybe even right now. Their are after all enough resources for everyone to live comfortable and happy life's right now, it's just unfairly distributed. Like the utopia portrayed in Star Trek, once people are free of the struggle for survival, people are able to find meaning whilst contributing to art, science, literature and all the other wonderful things humans can create. This has gone on a bit of a weird tangent but I hope who ever followed it, enjoyed it. Anyways great show and great author. Love your books Brandon and if you have the chance you should check out Fear and Trembling and Either/Or by Soren Kierkegaard I think you would find them very interesting
This is a fantastic essay. Not only do you highlight how The Good Place did well, but you also expand greatly on why, in more depth than other reviews I've seen.
One of my favourite writers doing an essay on one of my favourite shows. Thank you so much. This was beautiful.
Good thematic summation! I like your reminder that we can have some philosophical disagreements with a story's themes and still respect it as a good ending.
They really stuck the landing. I loved this show.
An excellent commentary on an excellent show. I differ from your feeling that walking through the final door is ending your existence. Chidi’s speech sums it all up best for me. “The wave returns to the ocean, where it belongs and where it’s supposed to be”. Eleanor, Chidi and Jason are still part of the universe but the form they had like the wave is no more. My interpretation is that Eleanor became the little voice inside someone’s head telling them to do the right thing before fading fully away but it’s still not really an ending because she’s not really gone. The are no endings. 😉
I thought the whole reason people passed through the door was because they HAD found fulfillment?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! I love to think about this show. And as someone who has studied philosophy, I love that this show has exposed so many more people to ideas in moral philosophy.
Your discussion of the ending is really interesting, because my intuitions are more in sync with the show. For me, if I had eternity to learn and create, it makes sense that there would come a point where it would be just...enough. That could mean different things to different people and I love that the show depicted a variety. of moments where this happens. Achieving a lifelong goal, reaching a moment of perfect satisfaction, etc. And they include hte counterpoint, where some people may always be ready for more of eternity.
I particularly like the part of the ending that implies that these perfected souls go back and tilt the world just a little bit more toward the better angels of our nature.
Very sharp editing - good job Adam!
Nicely noticed mate.
I didn't see the choice of walking through the archway as a failure to find fulfilment - i saw it as the crowning of fulfilment. When one has really achieved all they set out to do, had time to savour it, be happy and then let go of all worldly things. Like a person serenely letting go of their struggle, surrounded by loved ones, knowing that they'll be ok. That they're happy. Happy to have been part of their journey, but acknowledging that it's ok for one's own journey to end - as there's no more greater happiness than what has already been achieved.
Still loved the video btw - I love how much thought and energy you put into it! I'd love to see more of your perspective on other TV shows/movies!
i watched the finale at a very critical time in my life - I had just finished high school, I was about to leave for university to live in a different city without my parents for the first time, I was having to leave my friends and my home. the themes of endings and how it isn't a bad thing, just a bookend to a new chapter really spoke to me. i read it as things are good because they end, and being sad for the ending meant that you enjoyed it while it lasted. it was very gratifying hearing you echo that reading of it. maybe I just like it so much because it spoke to me, who knows! but the show remains one of my favourites and so important to my journey. great video!
It was the lack of choice that was making the real good place terrible, when the option to leave was added Patty says she is going to stick around longer. So it was the idea of eternity that was more of a problem than eternity itself. Once people had the option to leave they could work towards becoming truly fulfilled without the weight of eternity on their minds.
The immortal beings couldn't understand that, it wasn't a concept that would ever occur to them since they seemed to be perfectly fine with doing their jobs forever, it took one of them learning human philosophy to figure it out.
I’m so glad I found you! I deeply appreciate how give space to artist to create their own story even when we disagree or simply don’t like it. Social media has devolved critique into a place where the consumers of art feel some sort of ownership or entitlement around the creations of others. It gets so ugly.
On another note, while I respect your opinion, I have a different perspective on the ending. I wonder if you’ve considered that we don’t a forever option, at least that we truly know of. I felt it was a kindness to say in the story that if we live a life of love and kindness and fulfillment of our passions, that we might be very happy moving on into the unknown. We’ll all have to do that someday. It’s nice to have a story tell us that it’s possible to be at peace with it.
My thoughts of fulfillment is that as long as you exist you need to keep searching for ways to be fulfilled in order to be fulfilled. True fulfillment isn't in finding something to be fulfilled about but to find something, do it, and then feeling fulfilled by it and moving on. Imagine you could be fulfilled by mastering a specific recipe, but then how fulfilling would it be to only make that one recipe for all eternity? Then you have broader goals like mastering all cooking recipes, but eventually, given eternity, you would master them all... then what? Humans are like pacman, constantly moving forward, gobbling up fulfillment and accomplishment but always looking for more.
I feel like them saying the only way to rest, and not have to seek things to do or go crazy from boredom is to stop being aware of your existence is possibly a valid point.
omg Brandon Sanderson talking about one of my favorite shows. Yes, please!!
I agree with this, I have been amazed at how this ending stuck with me. I have thought about it again and again for the last year or so. I have been amazed at how it stuck with me and how well done it was. Thanks for putting it into words
I LOVED this show. The Good Place podcast, hosted by Marc Evan Jackson, was really good too and offers ALOT of insight into each episode
OMG, I love that you talked about this show, even if it has a fairly loyal fanbase it feels like not a lot people are talking about it considering how masterful it is
Video essay from a world renowned novelist. what could a man ask for more
Great to have more video essays again! Always a pleasure to listen to Brandon's thoughts.
Wow, what great timing!! My husband and I just finished the Good Place as well. This video really gives some good commentary as to what I was feeling at the end of the show, but couldn't put into words as well as this. What Sanderson said in this commentary makes me really glad though, because I think the show's ending and Sanderson's wrap-up of the Cosmere will have similar philosophical endings that must be achieved, and Sanderson won't head into such a melancholy ending as this show did. It makes me excited to see what he has in store for how the Cosmere will turn out, and not dreading it like I might with other authors.
A music lovers take. The music that played when during chidi and elanors final conversation broke me heart and soul. It's SPIEGEL IM SPIEGEL by arvo part. Or mirror in mirror. The whole piece is a mirror horizontally on the score sheet. And it adds more notes every time it repeats. It's beautiful. And it works great here, coz it's literally what chidi is talking about. The wave that crashes and mirrors itself. It's never the same, always evolving, but it has ebb and flow.
The music that played in the Season 3 finale part during "Some Memories You May Have Forgotten" was taken from Carter Burwell's "Where the Wild Things Are" soundtrack, the track called "We Love You So". czcams.com/video/O0ELmFUEmaA/video.html The specific part used in TGP starts at 3:00.
I'm just amazed by how well you are able to convey your opinions, disagreements and appreciation all together without attacking the art or overtly praising it. There's also a sense of objectivity to your way of dissecting the show which I've seen so many reviewers strive for (even the best ones) and completely fail - as in, I see so many reviewers providing their opinions as facts. In that sense, this felt.....academic (not sure if there's a better word).
I came here to hear gush about a series I love, but I leave this video with an example of how better to express myself effectively.
2:54 Sorry Rithmatist fans.
I was absolutely crushed by the end of The Good Place. Your analysis helped me find some language for what I was feeling.
I'll preface my comment by saying i agree with Brandon, in that i believe humans can find fulfillment from service and creation. I do wonder though if characters stepping through the arch are unfulfilled. I think for Chidi this is th case, he was looking for more and couldnt find it so he sought to leave. However, for Jason he was fulfilled and his decision wasn't to step through because he was unfulfilled, but because he felt complete and whole and was ready to move on.
I feel like the bar for fulfilment for everyone is unique to them. I'd like to believe that in Chidi's case, he finally found his own fulfilment by coming to peace with the idea that there was no ultimately "correct" answer to any of the philosophical problems he'd spent his life studying. One of the major arcs of his character was as a moral and philosophical pillar to the other characters, but was always plagued by indecision which I see as a result of that background. His ultimate decision at the end there symbolises to me that he's finally at peace, and even his words of wisdom to Eleanor wasn't his typical spiel of "well, Aristotle said this, but conversely you can look at it like Plato wrote", instead it was one beautifully picked nugget of wisdom.
If you live long enough, you will eventually do all of the service and creation possible, and you will no longer want to live. Eternity is a very long time.
This is a really interesting take and I agree with a lot of it. I fully cried at the ending, caught between the melancholy of the ending and the actual fact that the show itself was ending. I completely agree that it is the writers' ending to the writers' story and within that they really nailed it. I think it's one of my most favourite TV show conclusions.
But to engage in a bit of a philosophical discussion with you, Mr Sanderson, I think it is exceptionally ironic that you, as a writer yourself, ended up at odds with the shows philosophical idea that eventually humans will chose to end. That love or friendship won't sustain. That self-annihilation (beautiful word choice by the way), is the only true fulfilment.
We are storytellers. Human beings tell stories. For amusement, for warning, for passing down history, for comfort against the unknowns in the dark, we tell stories. And I think that as humans, we have some inherent understanding of good stories (despite some of what Hollywood and the like put out!) and what they contain. And as you yourself pointed out, sometimes a solid, definitive ending is what a good story needs.
Each of our individual lives are stories. And I personally believe that these stories need a definitive ending. I am in love and it definitely sustains me. There are goals in life I have that I hope will better humanity, or at least better some peoples lives, and that idea drives me. But without context of these things ending, of these feelings being finite, I think perspective gets lost. I think its honestly tragic. I guess that's part of being human...
Stories need endings. Some stories need definitive endings. I personally believe that human stories need that definitive full stop.
But that's just my opinion. And I am very grateful, Mr Sanderson, for you sharing yours. I am a big fan of The Good Place and its mission to encourage philosophical discourse and I'd say they were more than successful looking at these comments!
"I'll say this to you, my friend, with all the love in my heart and all the wisdom of the universe:
Take it sleazy."
I agree with you absolutely about Art.
As a person who loves the humanities, I'm constantly horrified at the casual disregard for story archs that actually bring the realizations that we're finite, we end and move on!
It's like they think people can't handle death with full character arch story endings. I love the good place for their story and for being honest and direct with it!
I thought the ending was so beautiful. Even in an ultimate paradise, it is the knowledge of an ending that makes it worth living. And not to mention the idea that people CAN become worthy of this paradise, if given time, help, and opportunities.
The only thing I disagree with in this analysis is the idea that it is "pessimistic". I think people fulfilling their goals and being able to move on to the next adventure is less pessimistic, more peaceful. The addition of the Arvo Pärt Spiegel Im Spiegel just solidifies the peaceful conclusion to the show. Melancholy may be a correct word, but not pessimistic.
This is really well done! One of the better, more thoughtful discussions I've seen on The Good Place. I really liked your point at 10:54, it's cool that the show did have multiple "answers" to the problem.
My favourite living author talking about one of my favourite shows, today is a good day. 😀
Thanks for bringing your unique PoV into this. You made some really excellent points. I personally love bittersweet endings, and generally prefer them over unambiguously-happy endings. The ending of this show is a little like the ending of Lord of the Rings in that way. I think it's beautiful and very satisfying.
I just found this video series. Please keep making them! They’re super useful!
Fantastic review for a fantastic show, I appreicated your holistic approach in looking at this from as many angles as possible.
I have to disagree on two points: I think the characters did not chase perfect fulfillment during the show, but primarily tried to avoid eternal suffering and prove that no one deserves this. The "good place" neatly demonstrates that even living there would turn into hell at some point, and the escape into nirvana is the definitive answer to the problem. That is why I think what the show really wants to say about the afterlife is that it is not just unnecessary, but also not something we should strive for, and try to invent via religions. Because we already have that escape in death. The big difference here is that we can not choose to end our life at the exact point in time when we have done everything we wanted to do. So our goal should be to chase that goal, even if unobtainable in a single lifetime, until the second we die, by accident, sickness or old age.
I would also say that the show is not trying to say that friendship and love isn't ever enough. In fact, attaining perfect friendship and perfect love WAS enough for the characters, because afterwards, they literally could not wish for anything else in the entire universe (Janet provided that option), and so were done.
The second thing is that the show clearly states that some people will never get better, but will have the opportunity to try for all eternity, which for them is basically a kind of hell, until it isn't.
I waited to watch this until I finally finished the show. Great review Brandon, it got me to really think.
This was awesome. Would love to see more of these type of videos for shows, books, movies and franchises. Brandon gives such great perspectives.
I loved this review, because I've watched two or three times the series already (yeah) and felt bad tastes in my mouth each time, even differently. Last time, I finally understood and accepted Eleanor's ending, because it felt awful when Eleanor crossed the portal as she wasn't peaceful, but always felt like she reached a point of out-of-placeness, of emptiness, as all her connections had moved on or gone through their own paths and there wasn't anything else that attached her to her existence. The last time, even though it still got me sad, I accepted it, and kinda embraced, this sort of ugly truth and actually appreciated that her ending happened like that. It's what I really think that would happen if we could choose to exist forever or choose when to end existence.
Around the time the show came out I was dealing with a feeling of outgrowing all my old hobbies, a relationship ending, and just general depression. To me it felt very understandable that any one thing, no matter how wonderful, would reach a point of completion. I think this idea of heaven, one where you have all the time you want, and only the time you want, was one of the more comforting things I considered.
Thanks brandon, you have brighten my day
This, and Breaking Bad, are probably my favorite series finales of all time. I've never cried this much the last episode of a TV show (and I've watched a LOT of last episodes).
Parks and rec also nailed it
While I watched breaking bad this year, I kept hearing hype about it to the point I was sure I wouldn’t find it satisfying for myself. I was wrong
@@John-lo2wn I feel like Parks and Rec last season was just so wierd...I wasn't a huge fan of it.
@@cold12u I liked it. I thought it nicely wrapped up all of the character arcs. And was satisfying.
Avatar the Last Airbender also nailed it. Amazing up to and especially including the ending.
This was absolutely phenomenal. I would love to see more of these types of videos.
I love these video-essays, you should do more!
The piano music background makes this essay strangely melancholy...
Sanderson is straight up doing video essays now and I'm very into it.
I love to hear a professional's perspective on other people's stories. I find analyses like these have been very helpful in developing in my own understanding of storytelling.
i loved this video, the good place has been my favorite show since it started essentially, and i still felt like i learned new things about it and the characters. thank you!
Brandon seems to be one of those really annoying people who is really good at everything they do!
Love this form of content from someone of your perspective and experience! Really enlightening
Damn. Recently found Brandon Sanderson stuff and videos. Always liked him but now he's one of my biggest role models after these videos for sure
This was excellent! You're so kind about your opinions, more reviewers should be like this! I hadn't thought about that "foot note" when I first finished watching the show. I still think is optimistic, everything must come to an end, love and friendship isn't enough to keep you here, alive, but it is enough for you to go to the afterlife in piece, happy with your life. Maybe I just didn't get it, because Brandon is much smarter than I am for sure, but that was how I interpreted it :)
Absolutely LOVE that Brandon takes the time to do things like this!
i thought the ending of this series was absolutely one of the most perfect and satisfying things i've ever seen.
I kind of feel like the characters did find fulfillment, and that was the whole point. They completed their stories, and knew it was time to close the book. It seems odd to call their final choices 'self annihilation' - why does being fulfilled mean that you then need to go on being that way forever?
Well put, overall. I was also struck by the pessimism as there didn't seem to be acknowledgement of an infinite universe to match an infinite existence. I'm not saying I comprehend it fully either, but saying that your characters have done and seen everything seems to put limits on the limitless.
I think the point the writers were making was that even if time and existence is infinite, the human mind doesn't have that capacity. I fall into the group of those that agree more with how the show ended, that even if you have love, friends, and a fulfilling existence, eventually, that won't be enough.
I can't fathom a limitless existence with no possibility for a definitive end. It's more terrifying as an idea to me than the idea of death is. People love and fall out of love in the space of a decade, even 50 years, everything ends. I don't think any human would have the capability to endure an infinite life, regardless of how nice it might be. Even if you could last a trillion years, your mind would surely be numb long before that ever came around.
@@x192743tf Totally fair. Not to get too deep into things, but I've definitely had suicidal thoughts and impulses based on the fact that, yeah, life is a lot. Living infinitely would presumably be infinitely more so. It can be a daunting prospect.
I think any sort of perspective on a never-ending afterlife relies on the potentiality that we'd somehow transcend our current forms, whether that be in a new and perfect physical body or as something beyond the physical, which the show left open as a possibility even beyond the final doorway.
However you slice it, though, I don't think anything that resembles paradise would require someone to remain if they don't wish to. Overall, I think the show handled the various perspectives pretty well. I just like a bit more hope in continued existence in my fiction because, well...I need it in my real life to keep me going.
@@EhsJaySaunders I believe that final doorway was meant to symbolize that exact kind of transcendence beyond the human - the next rung of paradise, if you will. Except they left it unclear, because of course by its nature it has to be.
@@KillahMate That does put a more positive spin on it, but I guess that's not how I read it. Maybe that says more about me than the writers.
@@x192743tf I don't think it's just the human mind, it is making a bigger point about what it means to be conscious, or alive at all.
Consciousness exists to drive us towards things, to make us work towards goals. Anything that has any form of awareness at all will want to accomplish something. Once it has accomplished it, (it's terminal goals, not just the instrumental goals it comes up with along the way) then there is nothing more that is needed. When there is truly nothing left to do, there is no reason to remain aware, and you can be satisfied as you let go of a life that is complete.
Take a shot every time SanderMan says "Indeed."
But seriously, this was great. I hate to ask for more because the guy is already so busy (what does he do when he takes "time off"?). Nevertheless, analysis videos like these are always a great surprise!
I bet he has like 20 twins and they all take turns
Indeed.
What I appreciate about you most, in this video, Brandon, is your professionalism. Respect!
Excellent analysis! I love how you point out that even though that wouldn't have been your choice ( mine either, tbh) you love how it achieved the goal of giving is something to think about and a sense of closure.
Love this show review. Love it! Wished Brandon had time to do these more often. He's a phenomenal writer and hearing his perspective of shows, is educational and I find them inspiring.
This is just a standard CZcamsr video essay, but from Sanderson. Beautiful.
I'm actually glad you did this video so long after the finale, because it highlighted an, I'm sure, unintentional outcome of the choices made in the last episode. Because no one talks about The Good Place anymore. Not the way they still bring up Schitt's Creek, Breaking Bad, or some other groundbreaking show that wrapped up some time ago. During the run of The Good Place, everyone talked about it, theorized and exclaimed over favorite parts. Now...crickets. We've all moved on. Like the ending was SO complete, there's nothing left to say, no reason for a footprint to be left behind, no matter what heights the story reached. The ending made it impossible to assume the Good Place characters are out in some existential somewhere doing their thing, and it may have affected the lasting legacy of the show.
I didn't see it as pessimistic anymore than I see going to bed at the end of a long day pessimistic. I appreciated very much that the general consensus among the characters was that the ability to rest was the sign of fulfillment. It wasn't the answer for all of them, but wanting to simply be finished also wasn't sneered at in the way it so often is. In short I guess I liked that they played "now I can die happy" straight. In a way the third time really was the charm LOL
But I've never been into immortality all that much, THAT sounds like hell to me. Part of the reason why I absolutely loved this show.
Thank you for your breakdown of the themes of this show. It was short but packed. Subscribed!
I absolutely agree with the writers.
The law of deminishing returns goes for everything. Even love.
Nomatter how much you love someone, the effect that love has on you changes over time. Even if that takes a really, really, really long time, it WILL happen in an endless amount of time.
A human will maybe never understand how that works in our finite lives ...
As someone who also personally disliked the ending just as Sanderson describes, not because of some flub in the story but because I disagree with the message, I really appreciate the existence of this video! For whatever reason this sentiment is uncommon (even in this comment section) so it's good to see someone who agrees.
To counter some of the things i've read in the comment section, many people argue the show portrayed the characters as being fulfilled and I disagree.
I can think of two definitions of fulfillment to apply to the situation. One, the one I and I think Sanderson are using, is something along the lines of "the quality of feeling you are preforming your purpose or meaning". Off of this definition if you thought you purpose/meaning was to help others, or build and preform loving relationships, you would be eternally fulfilled doing these things and would see no reason to annihilate yourself.
Alternatively, fulfillment may be the quality of becoming the best you. Doing all the things, becoming perfectly emotionally and morally mature, helping all your friends, etc. People have some checklist of personal growth or works they need to complete in order to become fulfilled. I don't think this definition makes sense, because I tend to prescribe to the idea of "existence before essence". Having done all the things, one would still be in the same position as just after they were born; having to determine meaning for themselves. However, if we take this idea of fulfillment seriously, there is some sense that their lives no longer have purpose. In this case I still don't think annihilation is justified. There is a conversation attributed to Diogenes which goes as follows:
"what is the difference between life and death?"
Diogenes - "There is no difference."
"why don't you commit suicide then?"
Diogenes - "Because there is no difference."
Essentially, even if there were no meaning or purpose in living after becoming fulfilled, there would still be no reason to self annihilate.
I therefore agree with Sanderson's assessment that the text of the good place's ending presents the idea that people cannot be truly fulfilled.
This analysis perfectly encapsulated why I was a broken, sobbing mess for days after watching the finale.