Logan, The Dark Knight, and Superhero movies that aren't Superhero movies
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- čas přidán 21. 09. 2017
- A video essay about Logan and The Dark Knight
Just like most of you, I assume, I've watched a lot of super hero movies.
At first they were exciting, fresh, something we always wanted. Spider-man, Ironman, X-men, finally we have GOOD super hero movies.
But, after 15 years, with Marvel and DC pumping out movie after movie, after 6 Spider-man Movies, 3 Ironman movies, 6 X-men movies... I think.
It's starting to wear a little thin.
So, when looking at the movies that have stuck with me, Logan and The Dark Knight are definitely at the top.
Taking familiar characters and putting them in unfamiliar situations is, I think, the perfect direction for super hero movies to go in.
Although, with Marvel movies doing better and better every year, I doubt it'll happen again any time soon.
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these aren't just great superhero films...these are great films that feature superheroes
But also that's a big problem, because super hero stories are just that.
Super hero fighting ancient gods questioning what is good and wrong.
I don't think that's all super hero story is. Civil war talks about many problems that stem from even having super hero in a society. Shittt, even the X men comics talks about the outlook of being different.
FKIN shit, even the Japanese adaptation genre to super heroes named Boku No hero, is pretty much a story of "what if" Syndrome from the incredibles attained his victory and made every everyone "HERO" in someways, and in making so, no one is really a "HERO" unless they get a certificate making it a regular job.
You obviously didn’t even watch like 2 minutes of the video before posting this
Mark Donald that's your opinion but objectively it's amazing. You probably just care about action and action. Not plot, characters and things that make a movie good.
Very true.... Is there any DC movie that can top it
The Dark Knight remains one of my favorite movies and this just reminds me why.
Now I have to go rewatch it again.. not that I'm complaining.
Any thoughts on logan?
Mark Donald Different types of movies. Transformers are movies for 10 year olds that get excited watching whores and slow-mo robots blowing up shit for the entire movie, while TDK is an amazing suspense/thriller with epic performances and story.
Missed opportunity to say "replacing cowboy X with weapon X"
andrew jones he did at 9:08
Without question The Dark Knight and Logan are the 2 greatest superhero movies ever! Nothing comes close
RedLightning17 maybe the Incredibles, but that's just my personal opinion.
Civil War is on the same level, it's entirely debatable and up to personal preference. I could easily debate it, but there's no real point, cause at the end of the day they're all great films.
Deadpool.
RedLightning17 Spiderman 2
Neither Civil War nor Deadpool come close.
It's like that:
1. The Dark Knight (9/10)
2. Captain America: Winter Soldier (8.5/10)
I haven't watched Logan yet, but Spider-Man 2 is a 8.25/10.
Raimi's first two Spider-Man films did this as well.. especially the second one. they were straight up character pieces about a kid struggling with a responsibility that was unfairly forced upon him through guilt & poor circumstances.
I'd love a more Silence of the Lambs/Batman movie where Batman interrogates Joker while Robin/Nightwing goes after another killer.
isnt this the basis of "the long halloween" arc kinda?
Most importantly, get Mark Hamill to play the Joker and Kevin Conroy to play the Batman. It's about time we got to see these two play their characters in live action.
Fanboys don’t understand that film is art and don’t let studios take the risks they need to to be good and unique
Daniel Jay Hart How is that pretentious? I literally just said that film is an art form.
I absolutely agree.
What makes me angry about these fanboys is that they don't have any kind of judge when they watch Marvel movies, they don't even know the difference between a well made, well written, well shot movie like Winter Soldier and a film like Endgame (who is the exact opposite), for them its all the same, that's why Marvel doesn't make good movies, cuz they know that what the people wanna see is fan-service.
@Dylan Sharp No, i've seen it, that's why i wrote what i wrote.
@@EN_02the dark knight , logan and captain America the winter Soldier is totally opposite of endgame and infinity war
@@MorganLeodeMenezes infinity war is a good movie , ENDGAME is the shite here.
Just like the VERY UNDERRATED "The Dark Knight Rises" (yes, it has plot holes but everything else is brilliant):
It is a war film, with Batman and Bane on it.
Rodrigo Gil agreed!!!
dude i think this film is the best out of the trilogy
I definitely agree. DKR was a great way to wrap up the franchise. Batman finally having achieved is goal of making Gotham great again, the league of shadows come back with a vengeance. Banes plan relied on far l;less ass pulls than jokers,and like Logan you had an aging retired hero who was no longer needed, and broken in spirit and body from years of fighting being forced to pick up arms one final time.
While I enjoyed Dark knight, i doubt it's validity as the best cinematic master piece ever, think jack Nicholson was a far better joker, and wonder if most of the hype behind the movie was because heath ledger died before it's release. because let's face it, for a famous person, dying at the peak of your career is the best publicity you can get, and pretty much cements your place in history. The worst is clinging onto fame long after it's past. most people don't remember young sexy Elvis, they remember at old Elvis who had a heart attack on the crapper.
As someone who criticises movies harshly and didnt even know heath ledger died until after watching the dark knight, i can safely say that his death has nothing to do with it being one of the best films of the genre(s), though im sure the film got a lot of hype because of it and a lot of peoples opinions were likely biased, however, im the kind of person who judges films purely based on merit, i dont take into account the personal lives or deaths of anyone involved (because frankly i dont care), and i didnt even know who heath ledger was before the dark knight, the movie was just outstanding in and of itself, in fact i feel its more likely that someone would have a lower opinion of it simply because of all the hype that surrounded it, because some people just want to believe that overhyped movies arent as good as theyr made out to be, some people just want to go against the grain and prove that theyr not a mindless zombie like the vast majority of society, they dont want themselves to be lumped in with the "mainstream" so they often have biased opinions against things that the mainstream likes, but the thing is not everything the mainstream likes is always overrated, sometimes it actually is something good and deserving of all the praise it gets
But see this is just my opinion, and it could very well that youre completely unbiased as well, so dont think im trying to call you out or accuse you of anything lol i just hope you can see where im coming from
I loved Tom Hardy as Bane :)
Dark Knight, Logan, the first two Spiderman movies and The Incredibles are pretty much the only 'superhero movies' I care about and would rewatch! They're just so memorable!
Part 3 isnt that bad.
@@KevinLuper99 lol spiderman 3 is not even in top 40 best superhero movies of all time
No mention of Unbreakable, one of the most unique and original superhero films of all time???!!!
sifat shams agreed! If Unbreakable had come out 17 years later, it would have been hailed as the greatest superhero movie of all time....
sifat shams I have never heard of it, sounds borinh
sifat shams Fam that movie was a thriller with superpowers involved.
Unbreakable was more of an psychological thriller than a superhero movie but the originality of the film has more to do with the way it deconstructed the superhero genre in comics. For a general audience, it has less of an effect because most viewers aren't comic book readers to begin with so there is this disconnect that a comic book reader can appreciate from this film.
that and Hancock, which admittedly fell apart in the final act.
I don’t see how these movies trying something original makes them “not Superhero movies”. That’s like saying a Horror movie that doesn’t follow all the modern cliches and tired formulas, isn’t really a Horror movie.
Movie genres often come to be defined as what they are stereotypically known for. It's like how Rom-comes are known to follow a typical journey of revelation. Girl/boy feel disassociated with the world or are, in some way, lost. Girl/boy meets s/o. S/o introduces them into the world giving them a new perspective. They reluctantly fall in love but eventually follow lead. Something happens to ruin that progression. Girl/boy realise their mistake (or the s/o does). They make up. Or, in some sad rom-com, they are too late. If a movie , that's a romantic comedy, then doesn't fit this box is some way. It doesn't fit the stereotype and therefore doesn't fit the definition. It becomes the rom-com that isn't a rom-com.
Just as Logan is a not-so superhero, superhero movie.
It's also done so that it doesn't belittle the uniqueness of said movie. Some people may think categorising the Dark Night trilogy as a superhero movie to be demeaning. I don't, but some may.
A genre is not defined by it's cliches. Defining a genre by cliches is what holds it back from ever developing or offering something new. There are plenty of rom-coms that don't even fit that formula.
This video left a bad taste in my mouth.
No see that’s the point! That’s exactly what he’s trying to say. It still is a horror movie no doubt but because it’s taken a twist to how the story is told, it stands out as not just a horror movie but as a great movie that just so happens to have horror in it. That’s what makes a movie great, when you watch it expecting something and end up with a story arch that is much more relatable. And THAT is how you end up with a timeless classic. In 20-30 years hardcore movie critics wont call Logan or TDK a great superhero movie but just as a great movie
I love The Dark Knight and the Joker!!! Miss you Heath Ledger💖
Absolutely fantastic, man.
HoustonProductions1 I
HoustonProductions1 heeeyyy! Just watched your harry potter video recently. (Litterally made me reread some potter) I love your hour long video essays. So cool to see you supporting your fellow creators!
A lot of MCU superhero movies and shows are doing this, just make it all in the same aesthetic and throw in familair beats so it all feels like part of one universe:
- Captain America First Avenger (and Wonder Woman too btw) is an action war movie...with superheroes
- Winter Soldier and Civil War are action-heavy political thrillers...with superheroes
- Thor is fantasy IN SPACE
- Guardians of the galaxy is just flat out a space opera with a touch of comedy
- Black Panther changes genre each act, act one is James Bond, Act two is Hamlet, act three is Lord of the Rings and superheroes all bind it together.
- Spider-Man: Homecoming and Runaways are teen dramas...with superheroes
- Jessica Jones is a neo-noir detective story...with superheroes
- Luke Cage is a modern throwback to/reimagining of blackspoiltation films...with superheroes.
- Infinity War is a fantasy movie and a disfunctional D&D game glued together by superheroes.
Mcu is kinda dead mate there is no more story line to the movies.
The realistic human aspects or elements and the struggles of each hero which gave us ambition to work forward in life and relate to are all mostly gone .
After avengers movie most of the others were focused on cheap fantasy play and teen drama not considering adult audiences or their sentimental value held by each character.
But nothing on character development whilst three heroes were the only thing keeping the whole thing together concerning character development IRON MAN, CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE HULK.
yes the hulk was on point with character development and real world problems relating to salvation and greed ,thirst for knowledge and how to combat our inner demand all represented in the movie THE INCREDIBLE HULK before he was turned into a freak show for the less mature audiences
and IRON MAN there is absolutely no words to describe his character development he is the most human of all of them
CAPTAIN AMERICA realizes the value of strength and generosity having fought in so many wars he realizes what it brings but he has his flaws tho marvel paints him in this perfect flamboyant image he has his inner demons he desires war without which he has no purpose tho he tries to run away from it avd he holds really deep secrets like death of starks parents (thanks to lousy writing even that epic moment got ruined by marvels foreshadowing bs).
Well overall u can basically see the mcu is over with all 3 gone (hulk is not hulk now he is just GIANT SHREK BRO )
@@akashsunil7464 You are replying to 4 years old psot, I forgot I wrote it
@@IdiotinGlans LOL 😆 I just wrote the facts down supporting ur argument thats all
I don't think many are aware that Superhero genre is hugely diverse.
Constantine movie plays out like a simple supernatural or horror movie yet no one would call him a superhero even though he's character in comics who's in the same universe as Batman and Superman.
"teen drama with Superhero"
Spiderman has been about a teenager with superpowers from his very beginning. Some of these are huge stretch.
Except being a part of the superhero genre is pretty important for Logan. Laura is literally saved by her faith in comic books.
People focus so much on the scene where Logan dismisses Laura's comics and tell her how they're a bunch of made up crap that they forget about the rest of the movie. So much of the movie is about the importance of those stories.
Laura didn't need Logan to tell her about how shitty the world is, she was an experiment who was treated like a thing all her life, she knows how shitty the world is. What she needed are those comic books to give her hope and teach her about humanity and heroes. And that's what a huge theme in the movie was about. That's what comics and superheroes represent. The details aren't important, but the essence of those stories are, and that's what should be preserved.
You reminded me of Grant Morrison's supergods. He says that Children enjoy Superhero stories more than adults because they know its not real and can easily suspend disbelief, focusing on the lessons we learn from them. Meanwhile adults have a hard time with them because they try too hard to rationalize them and comparing them to real life
I would say the old Spider Man 2 falls in this category as well.
Mark Donald yeah that one better than bvs which is basically captain ashole(supes) vs killing machine(bats) and then the riddler(lex) appears who for some reason creates abomination from the Incredible Hulk and also a woman with a lasso spears out of knowhere. Listen kid go home and watch suicide squad.
Yes
@Mark Donald would you rather spiderman be a 14 year old in an iron man suit?
Why? What genre does Spider-Man 2 take influence from? I guess there's the campy comedic overtones and the obvious allegory of Peter's confidence + responsibilities + web shooting performance = puberty and becoming a man. So the film could be compared to a light-hearted warm coming of age movie..but I still think that's just a natural storytelling direction due to how Peter Parker's always been presented in the comics as opposed to a firm planting of the film in a legitamately seperate genre.
But yeah I can partially agree. It takes influence from non-superhero movies but I still think it's a typical Spider-Man story. Similar to how Spider-Man Homecoming took inspiration from hip 80s teen movies like Breakfast Club, Ferris Bueler's Day Off, etc
Yeah I believe the story, the acting, and the immortal message it presented..makes it beyond just a movie
The Dark Knight vs Logan = The Prestige
😄
The Crow was a might dark for a "hero/comics" film... especially for nineties films, very much a "vengeance from beyond the grave" kinda horror flick...
I love Logan and The Dark Knight but I don't think every superhero film needs to be an oscar caliber film. Superhero films just need to be fun and entertaining.
Who says that an Oscar caliber film can't be fun and entertaining?
Unless you're a mega movie critic who will tear apart a movie on the smallest things like me.
@@VicenteTorresAliasVits Most Oscar-bait or Oscar-nominated movies are pretentious social commentary films nowadays with a focus on melodrama. That's why blockbuster films don't often get the Best Picture academy award. like most Marvel movies aren't Oscar-friendly apart from Black Panther and Doctor Strange due to the former's political significance and the latter's emotional and serious origin story + its cast being the type associated with Oscar-friendly movies.
Ironically though, despite being fairly high-brow and Oscar-worthy, the Dark Knight wasn't even nominated for best picture in 08 even though most thought it should've won. Shows how the view was towards superhero movies back then because if TDK was made nowadays it would undoubtedly be honoured and nominated as a favourite at the academy awards
Writer: we need an ending
Other writer: S K Y 🅱️ E A M
I haven't seen Logan, and I don't want to watch Logan. I do want to watch a western. I definitely want that. Now that I know it's a western, I can't wait to watch it. This double genre dip of sorts opens a film to whole new audiences, themes, ideas, visuals, and, in general, whole new levels of quality.
This is how I feel about Watchmen. Great movie with superheroes, not the other way around
"You should've kept 'replace Generic Cowboy X with Weapon X'!" How could you get rid of that!?
I acknowledge that of these two The Dark Knight is better. Better camera work, more complex plot, non-exposition filled dialogue. I love TDK.
That said I just prefer watching Logan. I'm a sucker for westerns and I love the visceral rawness this movie presents. I love the vulnerability of the characters. The idea of old age and the effects of time on a person interest me, so the idea of that being applied on a being who was basically immortal was fantastic. And maybe I'm a cliche, but I love the tragic hero plotline, where you have a hero filled with regret and I just think that blends in with old age fantastically. I just really love Logan.
I hope your Channel won't die. It's very well edited and neat.
I agree with everything that you said. The Dark Knight remains my favorite superhero movie and I also loved Logan
Well done brother, you've gained at least one more subscriber (me!) and the fact that you saw flaws in the superhero genre SIX years ago, together with your decent takes on stuff.. I'll be watching you...Jnr nostradamus !
This is an amazing analysis. This makes sense, Thank you.
Directors should make more movies like Dark knight trilogy and Logan
Way to pad the run time.
elheber was looking for this comment
Such a hack fraud
The Joker is not a super villain. ...technically batman isn't a super hero, either.
I love your content. I can laugh and think deeply. Greetings from Mexico
Nolan's Dark Knight also wears the influences and nods to Mann's "HEAT" on its bat-sleeve 😉
They're basically character study films disguised as a comic book genre film. Todd Philips summed it up right when interviewed about Joker
This aged like fine wine.
The Closer Look sent me here. Excited for the video!
When you stretch the video to become 10 mins to get that sweet CZcams ad money even though the video ended at minute 5 a long time ago
When I told my friends that Logan was a western movie they looked at me like I was an idiot. Not like I was crazy, but more like I didn’t know what I was talking to them until I brought up how he was the “last cowboy”. And it really is! There are so many westerns where there is a guy who was a killer and just wanted to be left alone. But BECAUSE he’s such a good guy, his morals wouldn’t let him just leave it alone. He HAS to go for one last ride and fight until his last breath. I have goosebumps now because I just remembered the last scene of Logan and oohhhhh the tears....
Nice video Alex 👍🏿 what's the song you used for the first half of the video?
Incredible video! Very well done
Here are few more:
Wonder Woman is a wartime romance.
Man of Steel is a "First contact" story.
Batman v Superman is a revenge tragedy.
Batman v Superman was more like pretentious and incoherent garbage that doesn't know what it wants to be.
Man of steel and Wonder Woman are spot on tho
Hunter Prince mos was lame and boring. WW was great.
Man of Steel is failure mainly because of the horrible characterization of Superman. The concept of a Superman without hope has potential but Snyder's pretentious,ridiculous,inconsistent character writing ruins the idea.
don’t even say those movies aren’t comic book movies because two of those are trash comic book movies and movies in general
I see what you're saying and I largely agree with you, but I sometimes bristle at phrases like "It's not ACTUALLY a superhero movie" or "It's almost like it's not a superhero movie at all!" Like the genre somehow drags the material down or makes it somehow less important, less competent or somehow takes less hard work to create.
Even in comics, there's stories about betrayal, revenge, addiction, sexual abuse, grief, existential dread, so on.
But because the characters wear silly costumes they're often lumped into one sum of "just for kids."
Dunno. Kinda bums me out.
This is the thing I’ve been saying about The Dark Knight for a while. Had Batman been placed in Once Upon A Time In America or Goodfellas or The Godfather, would that then be a superhero movie? It’s basically what you’d get if Martin Scorsese directed a Batman movie. Which would be awesome. It’s a crime film which happens to feature Batman. And while I haven’t seen Logan, based on what I have seen of it, it’s basically Unforgiven but for superheroes.
You can even take it to films like Infinity War and Endgame. Placed together, I consider that story an Epic on the level of films like Gone With The Wind. While I do think there is some merit to the criticism that the MCU can be formulaic, I think there are substantial differences between movies. You have Spider-Man Homecoming, which is essentially a teen comedy with Spider-Man, you have Guardians of the Galaxy, a Sci Fi space adventure, and my favourite, Captain America The First Avenger, which is a war film more comparable to Indiana Jones.
I do kind of dislike how many are just simplified as ‘superhero movie’. Like, The Dark Knight should really be called, I dunno: ‘An Epic Crime Drama Superhero film’.
I think Infinity War did a little bit of both (kinda).
Nice video good job!
Watchmen?
Man of steel? (A first contact story)
V for vandetta?
Sin city?
Hellboy 2?
BvS as a fallout of first contact
MRX1o1 I would rather say it's a movie about power
V for Vendetta, yes.
Man of Steel, yes.
Sin City and Watchmen, no. Both films recreate panels off the page to make these movies feel like comic books. That's not mixing genre that's being completely enveloped by it.
"Both films recreate panels off the page to make these movies feel like comic books. That's not mixing genre that's being completely enveloped by it."
Comic books and the superhero film genre are seperate entities bub. Sin City is more neo-noir crime movie than it is a superhero movie. You really can't tell me that a black and white movie with a non-linear narrative, hard-boiled detective style voiceover and an ambiguous urban setting too is what you'd call exemplary of the superhero genre. Sin City has more in common with Chinatown, LA Confidential or Se7en than it does with Spider-Man, X-Men and Iron Man. Watchmen, on the other hand, in my opinion, is a political period piece with extremely stylish comic book inspired visuals, and superhero characters driving the plot.
It's still a superhero movie, but just a dark take on the genre and its political source material means it pushes to the very edge of the superhero genre.
Parts of X-Men First Class can be compared to Watchmen in that political and period piece respect. First Class had the Cuban missile crisis and cold war as the political backdrop to marry its 60s setting, had the style too with Matthew Vaughn's recognisable cinematography + music selection and clever 60s aesthetic, then had the mutants and X-Men dropped into this setting with the era, political climate and aesthetic being the core of the movie and then the X-Men just being mere accessories coincidental to the environment as opposed to dictating the film's environment, tone and overall aesthetic.
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READ ON IF YOU WANT AN EXPLANATION OF GENRE:
Think of it like this. Most standard superhero movies are defined as strictly superhero movies based around the characters involved. So if you take Superman out of Superman then it's no longer a movie because there's no distinct feeling or tone or genre identifiable. Same way if you take the X-Men out of the first X-Men (2000) then there's no real personality or feeling to the movie. Similar thing with Spider-Man or Venom or 99% of all superhero movies made.
But for a film like Guardians of the Galaxy, if you remove the superhero characters, it's still a film in space, with aliens, with comedy involved, with extensive use of music and many other aspects which could make the movie a sci-fi film or a fantasy-adventure movie or something which isn't just 100% a superhero movie. Similar thing with Sin City still having the elements I mentioned earlier that'd make it a neo-noir movie or Watchmen having elements that'd make it a political period piece or something like that. Other less extreme examples might be a movie like Thor being a superhero movie with fantasy elements so it becomes a Fantasy Superhero film. Or Doctor Strange having a dramatic emotional origin story driving it forward to be a Superhero Drama. Or with pretty much any combination of movie out there.
Hardly any superhero movie is 100% just a superhero movie. There will always be a mix of some influence from some place. But Watchmen, Logan, TDK, Sin City, First Class, Unbreakable, etc are some of the most extreme and notable examples of suberting the superhero genre and breaking it's conventions
My favorite Superman story is "All-Star Superman", and with Batman, it's "The Long Halloween".
I've never seen anyone with such similar views to me, the dark knight and Logan are my 2 favourite superhero films, with winter soldier not far behind as the best marvel film, I just agreed with everything you said here, great vid
Choosing between LOGAN and TDK is like choosing between Pizza and Burger
The best part is when you mention how in comic books is common tell new stories with the same known characters, but the studios want the formulaic movies.
For me, the best superhero movies are: Spiderman 2, Logan and The Dark Knight
I agree
Everyone is saying "Oh Logan is a western, Logan is a western" but they don't explain how it is a western. Yah I know it is a western, everyone can agree, but HOW is it a western. Just asking.
It follows the general/basic concept of a Western movie. Where you have a lone soldier, that has had something that demoralised them. They are then given some sought of purpose or cause that brings them back to fight, reluctantly. That then leads to them gaining some sought of connection or almost reboots their emotion. They eventually willingly fight the big bad, sacrificing their wellbeing for the cause.
True Moon Man It's also important to know that Logan follows western tropes more than the blockbuster superhero trope. Evidence of this is its conclusion. The purpose for Logan to continue to fight is a much more personal small scale reason, as opposed to an apocalyptic reason. Logan simply wants to save a bunch of kids, one of them happens to be his surrogate daughter, from being killed. He's not fighting a dangerous machine that wants to end the world as we know. If he fails, only a handful of people survive. And if he succeeds there's no major change in the world.
A common Western story is that of the old gunslinger who once was a very violent but great fighter who doesn't have a place in his world anymore. Those westerns were set at a time when the West was conquered and is not particularly Wild anymore. Settlements were started, the land was tamed and people got civilized. The gunslinger who conquered the West knows nothing but fighting, a skill which became mostly obsolete or frowned upon. His legend is still somewhat known, but there is no frontier left to explore, so the gunslinger tries to live the rest of his life in quiet isolation.
But then something happens. A group of bandits attacks a village, a young girl gets kidnapped or a big railroad company bullies and threatens people out of their land. The gunslingers skills are needed again. He doesn't want anything to do with his old life and tries to stay out of it, but he can't escape his past and the legend he left behind. So he tries to help those who can't help themselves. Because he is the only one that can do it. He realizes its better to die with a purpose than to live and just wither away. He's old and tired and will probably die, but he can finally do something that feels right and repent for his past sins. So he helps the people and defeats the last Wild part of the West, so the poeple can live the peaceful life he never had.
Not 100% the story of Logan, but you see the similarities. Professer X and Laura watching the movie Shane in the hotel room (pretty much exactly the story you read here) was not a random choice. I hope I could help :)
It has the tone, structure and look of a western, the soundtrack was clearly inspired by Westerns as well.
True Moon Man watch Unforgiven it's pretty close
I totally agree with you, superhero movies aren't really Superhero movies
The three best movies that happened to have superheroes in it in my opinion.
That's like saying, these horror movies aren't horror movies, there just movies that just so happen to scare you
hooray for the bloopers!
Oh don't put winter soldier in the same boat as The Dark Knight and Logan. Winter Soldier is good, but that's about it. It's not a masterpiece.
St. Jimi I agree but it's definitely a favorite of mine. Logan is an instant classic and as much as I respect Nolan and loved the Dark Knight I can't say it's better than Logan.
Stephen The13th The cinematography, the visuals and the emotions in Logan are the best. Winter Soldier had the best action, The Dark Knight had the best music, acting and story.
Stephen The13th Logan focuses on emotions, and it makes a superb job. The dark knight focuses on philosophy, the message. Both are in the same place for me
Just an amateur filmmaker yeah their both equally good but the dark knight only tops it cause of the joker. Apart from that their equally the same.
Just an amateur filmmaker The Dark Knight is miles ahead of logan. Not even close
As someone who grew up with superheroes series/movies, i see the difference in the way the story is told. In movies like spiderman, you learn with the mc about his new super powers and start to use this to save the world.
In Logan and Batman, it’s more personal. The mc are trying to save people who they directly know and love and for saving this people they are ready to die and ‚‘‘destroy‘‘ themselves.
Of course superhero movies also have this but superhero stories are more episodic ones.
You have a villain, this is the goal for this episode/movie and after the enemy is defeated...the superhero is ‚‘‘reseted‘‘.
They concentrate more on the development powers of the superhero and what is also very important is to set a moral. ,,you have to protect people who are weaker than you‘‘ ,,with power comes responsibility...‘‘.
Why are the best ones the most serious?
Thor: Ragnarok
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Thor Ragnarok and Spider-Man homecoming are mediocre films a better example will be Spider-Man 2
Are you quoting THE JOKER?
Shashwat Mishra nah those are just good or great but not masterpiece like Logan, dark knight, infinity war.
@SpankMeSanta the problem is the general problem with creating a Shared large scale universe. You can't change it too much or you end uo screwing up the rest. With a single franchise like TDK, they can change whatever they wish and have any kind of impact. However, i would still say that the MCU has an amazing continuity and a lot of impactful moments like the 'I am Iron Man' scene, the Battle of New York that affects a lot of the visible universe(like providing an origin for the vulture), the fall of SHIELD, the Battle of Sokovia that caused the formation of the Accords and divided Tony and Steve, who as of now still remain divided. Is that consequence enough?
Logan is Marvel Universe's Dark Knight....
Logan isnt in the mcu.
The mcu is too boring and generic to have a movie that deep.
@Cole Pratt bruh you just contradicted yourself. You said if Logan was made by the mcu it would be generic so clearly you know how its generic, dickhead.
The Dark knight is a masterpiece along with Logan.
You should watch "One Punch Man". That show is, in my opinion, one of the best examples of a superhero story that's not actually about superheroes.
Honestly, I feel Logan would've been SOOOO much better if they would've left out the SPOILER X-24 clone. Up until that point, it felt like a legitmately good movie, and not a good superhero film. Then here comes X-24 to remind you that, yes, you ARE watching a superhero film. It kinda discounts what the movie was going for up to that point.
I think Logan and the dark knight are leagues ahead of the winter soldier.
good job getting it to 10 min
The fact you didn't mention Spider man 2...
i think yall misunderstand what a "superhero" movie is, but that might not necessarily be your faults
I would also add that The Dark Knight Rises is basically a war movie. With Bane as a guerrilla leader who launches a coup against the local government and forcibly changes its political structure with the ultimate intention of destroying it entirely. Batman than launches a counterrevolution using the city’s deposed cops in a last minute effort to save the city from nuclear destruction.
They're all superhero movies, especially considering they're all based off of stories from superhero comics. The major difference is they have more personal motivations, instead of world shattering stakes.
You're probably not gonna see this anymore but on the off chance: What's your opinion on Antman? For me it was a nice change of pace to the usual superhero formula. Of course not even near the quality of a Logan or Dark Knight but kinda nice.
I think you forgot spiderman 2
I love flash point paradox.
How dare you
...even winter soldier.
Awesome film. ❤️
I agree,hate freaking predictability about modern super hero movies, so okay good guys win bad guys lose,but I agree that its great when the plot is explainable to a regular audience but there's a question to the people who were paying attention to think, who really won?
Its so sad that DC was doing so great with the batman trilogy and then everything changed when superman came out.
Honestly I love both of these movies to death, but I would never consider either of them “the best superhero movie” simply because I can’t consider them the *definitive* superhero movie, they’re great movies, but their greatness comes from how hard they’re trying not to get mixed up in the superhero thing and that to me doesn’t make it worthy of the title “best *superhero* movie”
I think another good example of a superhero movie that isn't exactly a superhero movie is Ant-Man. It's basically a heist movie
Batman trilogy and Logan is my Fav
V for Vendetta does something similar. But I suppose it could be debated whether or not it technically qualifies as a superhero movie.
it's a leftwing superhero movie, as opposed to all the american style rightwing super hero movies.
Really dragged this one out to ten minutes
Definitely should've included Spider-man 2
You're right
I hate to be THAT guy but you described LOGAN as a CLASSIC western which is wrong since it doesn't take place in the wild west it is definitely a NEO western
Why was the outro like half of the video?
Logan and the dark knight are probably 2 of the greatest films of all time. I do think that logan is better though.
do you have any advices for me for a brother who says he "will not watch any superhero movie"
yea but in the xact oppisite way thor ragnarok and guardiqns also weemt like normal superhero movies
Watchmen is another superhero movie that isn't really a superhero movie.
Exactly.
*X-Men 2 is so underrated.*
*Now I'm going to re-watch every x-men movie.*
Logan? Dark Knight?
Unbreakable, Split and upcoming Glass by M. Night Shyamalan.
I absolutely hate the argument that movies like TDK aren't actually superhero movies. THEY ARE. 'Superhero' is not a genre, it is a theme that is adapted into many genres, and it has been like that forever.
As long as comics are strong ...the subsequent movies will be strong
What about deadpool and ragnarock as they are really good, in my opinion, they're kind of revenge arks or a Taken like ark
Damn Straight!
i feel like this would also work with thor : ragnorok, it's a comedy but with superheroes and the movie would be good even if you removed that aspect of it
Lol what a fucking bitch
*Logan is a GREAT movie.*
The last cowboy the last samurai.... The last mohican
Ohhh yesss
What I’m hearing is, Superhero fan-fiction is the future. Right?