How To Make A Great Villain
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- čas přidán 1. 10. 2016
- In this video I analyse the Joker in the Dark Knight and answer the question why is he the best villain of all time.
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1. Make the villain more powerful in creative ways
2. Give the villain motivation
3. Let them win
4. The villain thinks they’re a hero
well didn't the villain know he's a villain
John Smith marvel fanboy.
John Smith when villains think they are the hero it’s boring but when they know they are the villain it’s a lot more interesting
Hunter White thanos though that he is the hero and look how interesting he is
Moath Rafat thanos is exactly the person I was thinking of when I wrote that I think he is kinda boring in infinity war but I like him in endgame
The best movie villain would have to be Iceberg from Titanic. Complete indifference to the trappings of money, power, and celebrity. Cold blooded.
In a way that is what the Joker represents! It is an opposition force. That is why he is considered the best villain without people realizing why.
Ice in his veins, you might say?
Ha. Cold.
Sorry for crashing this comment chain.
Yeah, this chain is really sinking in quality.
Actually: The Joker never lied to Batman. He said killing is a choice. If you listen carefully, you'll realize he's saying that to kill Rachel, go to this address, and vice versa. Batman just misinterpreted it in who to SAVE rather than who to kill.
Wow, I never noticed that.
Joker is 100x better than entire Dark Knight Trilogy
Do you mean the new 2019 joker film?
@@desipop3654 why do you say that? i’m actually curious lol
He's very smart with wordplay tbh
why does joker looks like he's about to sing bohemian rhapsody in the thumbnail
underrated
@@windykar3705 Definitely
Lol
Haha
“You wanna know how I got these scars?”
“I was just a poor boy nobody loved me”
Heath Ledger actually improvised and wrote a lot of the Joker. HE designed the make up.
a true masterpiece. A real high for the movie industry
Yep, he actually scared the main actress
Emphasis on the word “high” as he was on acid most of the time
The high point of his career was the descent of his sanity
Not only did he design his makeup but he put it on himself for extra realism
Razor V why was that necessary
About the scar thing.
Joker chooses his story according to who he is gonna kill.
In the first case, he threatens a criminal and if you watch enough movies, Criminals always have a dark past, are sexually abused or have an abusive father. In the second case, He is about to kill someone who is getting married so he tells her about the horrors of marriage before killing her off.
You stole this from another video regarding joker s scarz
@@chromaxd26 you summed up 90% of comments.. but that's okay I guess
@@shiskeyoffles its nothing new but this one was word by word
Bleach Dark. Busted
You owe me your life Jaqen, you must give others life.
Me: *watching The Dark Knight
The Joker behind me: pass me some popcorn.
okay i dont care who is sitting behind me joker or not id be TERRIFIED if some random person asked me for some popcorn in the middle of a movie.
This thread made me laugh harder than it should have
I can hear his voice clearly wtf
Wanna know how I got this popcorn? I went to the concession booth.
pfp checks out
Personally, I feel like having a villain have no motivation at all can be intimidating when used correctly.
If the antagonist, especially one that's a murderer, has no real motivation, I feel like it makes them more scary because there is a lack of reason. They are doing this for their own enjoyment.
I think so too. I've been trying to write a decent oc like this, but haven't had much success ^^;
Agreed their only issue is they come as one dimensional characters but they're still engaging and interesting to see them around as long they're done right
Anubis Yeah, they do seem to come off as one-dimensional. Although, like you said, if they’re done right, their character becomes allegorical. In other words, the story isn’t about the character anymore, but rather about the idea of that character. That is, they begin to represent evil itself, for example, or they personify the idea of evil being one-dimensional or absurd. Having a villain that is terrifying yet indifferent to his own intentions, one the audience just can’t understand, makes evil itself, in its conflict with the Good, a scary topic because it’s just mind-boggling, to the point where it seems meaningless. This probably doesn’t make much sense, but it’s interesting to see that a seemingly one-dimensional character can be so important to a story, and that that character can simply be an image of the idea the story is hoping to express.
I’ve been trying to make an antagonist like that that is actively trying to hunt down the main protagonist. I don’t know if I should classify him as a serial killer or an assassin, hell the original idea was to make him a gang leader but I didn’t think that would make sense.
that's why the joker worked and malekith (or any other i-wanna-destroy-the-world) villains didnt.
“The best villains are villains that you understand” - Christopher Nolan
"The best villains are the villains you don't understand" - Henry Sharpe
When you dont know the villain's motivations or their backstory it makes them terrifying (but it can be bad with the wrong delivery). Look at the joker, we don't know his backstory, he says the story of his scars but both were probably lies. The fact we do not know anything about him was a very intentional move by Nolan.
Like Scongo
like doofy from Scary Movie 1
The Closer Look actually I feel it can work either way and I think a villain you understand doesn’t mean you know their backstory but instead you know why they do their actions the best example I can think of is a character called Stain from the show my hero academia in the show superheroes has become a profession and stain believes heroes have become too corrupt so he dedicates himself to hunting down & killing the “fake” hero’s and since the start of the show their have been major examples of heroes who are corrupt or unfit to be heroes (trying not to give away spoilers) so we the audience can UNDERSTAND his viewpoint. He also has limits Stain will actively try to spare heroes he sees as worthy and he also despises other villains who just want to destroy so it can go either way
Reminds me of Killmonger from Black Panther. Marvel never has particularly good villains but Killmonger was so sympathetic; many would agree with his goal, just not the means he was willing to use to go about achieving it. Definitely my favourite villain in the MCU.
This Joker is the epitome of "everyone was thinking it, I'm just doing it,"
well said.
Would like, but i wanna keep it 222
everyone was thinking on save the city?
That's actually Splat Tim. He does it
I read that in his voice
My top three favorite villians
1.) Davy Jones
2.) Joker - Ledgers
3.) Hannibal Lecter
Great Top 3 !!! glad you mention Davy Jones
I see your a man of culture
AND pheonix
I particularly love villains who are so sympathetic/understandable that you aren't quite sure if they're actually the villain of the story.
My top 3
1) Griffith
2) funny valentine
3) johan liebert
I remember everyone thought ledger’s joker was gonna fail because they were bringing a young attractive kid to play the iconic role, then he became the most iconic movie character
"Let the villain win"
The Russo brothers: "Hmm..."
*it's free real estate*
*snap*
dust
Did they do it?
@@aurumthebrave3427 yes
I get chills every time Alfred says his line about the Joker...
One of my favourite lines of all time, absolutely classic :)
I dropped my spoon at that point. Man I gotta rewatch the dark knight
‘Ello, my name is sir Michael Caine, but not a lot of people know dat’
@@slimlegs6298 Read that in his voice, :)
3:22
Fun fact: in the Harvey Dent Fundraiser scene, when Joker makes his appearance, that was the first time Michael Caine (Alfred) had seen Heath Ledger as the joker, so his reaction was genuine
if I may add my two cents: a great villain is one who can make the hero question if they really are the hero, make the audience question who's the good guy or the bad guy, and, under the right circumstances, could've been the hero
@Disney Discussion Duo true, especially when you consider that the monsters were there first and the Mewmans pushed them from their land with their powerful magic
The good the bad and the ugly.
Even the trailer didn't know which was which, and two of them have history in the earlier movies.
A classic who done it.
Hans from Frozen
@@krisrhood2127 you're losing the point
7:55 I find it interesting that when the Joker takes off his mask, he is still wearing a mask. Most villains would wear the mask to show their evil and to be scary, but the Joker doesn’t need that - that’s what he is, inside and out
That's an awesome observation.
Spider-Man 2 has more heart and soul than entire Dark Knight Trilogy IMHO
@@desipop3654 OK fanboy
Actually, Joker revolves around a lack of a mask as a character. We all wear a mask, in the metaphorical sense, and The Joker is the unrestricted side of ourselves that prevails if we throw the mask away. Batman wears a mask, but only by wearing that mask can he discard a part of the mask that is Bruce Wayne. In every great Joker story, Joker is pushing his enemy over the edge, commonly Batman, or in Killing joke, James Gordon. Joker removing his mask in the beginning is symbolic of discarding the metaphorical mask we all wear, and surrendering to the absurd. I could be wrong, and you're allowed to interperate it diffetently, but thats how it appeared to me.
@@desipop3654 fuck off
The best villain for Hulk:
Stairs
Kung Fu Panda: Hold my noodle cart
@@stevensanchez1192 I JUST SNORTED
NO, it's back itching.
@@stevensanchez1192 😂😂😂😂
Stronzo 69 lol
Ironically, Alfred's comment on how some men just want to watch the world burn is hard to truly apply to the Joker, because of his comment later about him and his comrades burning the forest down. It's an important detail that I feel most people miss when watching the movie.
True, if anything I think the Joker from Dark knight would be more the one to hand out matches and watch others burn the world down. Merely doing it himself is too much. But convicting others to do it after destroying what they believe in is his real goal. Basically the Joker is sick and just wants every one else to feel life is as meaningless as he does.
Not literally but figuratively burning the world, watching society collapse in on itself. Watching aristocrats rub shoulders with beggars and geniuses rub shoulders with the fickle.
His goal may have been to save Gotham. He left the mafia broke, while getting rid of the corrupt head of the government
Alfred and his comrades lived long enough to see themselves become the villain. Burning the forest down was an extreme and probably immoral response.
This is another example of the theme of escalation Jim Gordon alluded to at the end of Begins. That to combat someone so extreme you have to escalate yourself and so on and so on until someone reaches their limit.
Bruce reaches his limit because Joker keeps twisting the screws and escalating the dilemma and pouring blood on Bruce’s hands and that’s when Bruce decides to tap out and turn himself in - but Harvey intervenes.
Back to the motif of things burning, I love what the Nolans did by having Alton Coleman (the accountant) confront Fox with the fact that Wayne Ent is “burning through cash” on a secret project. He quips to Fox “ What are building for him (Batman) now? A rocket ship?”
Then later we see Joker literally burn through cash. I.e. the mob’s and his half of the money. The point made by drawing the parallel of course is that money means nothing to either man - it’s just a means to an end.
That trump joke was GREAT!
Ultimately, the success of the character was due to Heath's performance and what Nolan wanted to do.
The Joker embodies nihilism...but lesser actors/directors would have easily taken it down the cartoony/MCU/80s villain route. There was a true sense of fear and dread with the Joker...all the while seeming real.
We know it's you Dale stop stealing Rusty's name
The Closer Look: “Let your villain win.”
Thanos: *snaps*
Cheese marvel - jk
"A good story lets the villain win"
*JoJo's Stone Ocean would like to have a talk with you*
@@boogiewoogie343 You worded it in a way as if Stone Ocean is not a good story.
Zemo laughing in the background of Civil War
Pl
RIP Heath Ledger. Your performance was legendary.
@ExtraGoose Animations I was just about to downvote this comment before I read the read more lmao.
I would like to see a video comparing the joker 2019 and the dark knight joker
You mean the 2019 cry baby?
@@footl0se tbh it makes sense that he would be that mentally unstable before accepting his role as the joker. it's a slow descent to madness. the descent was shown by joaquin phoenix and the madness was shown by heath ledger.
@Lionard Kirsch i shall check it out g. thanks
@@footl0se I can tell you get no b1tches from afar
Man, I could watch hours and hours of videos praising the Batman Trilogy, freaking pieces of art.
BTW they never age, if u watch those movies right now it wouldn't feel as if they were made in 2005, that's the rarest thing in cinema
100% agree.
For a split second I thought that on the IMDb list it said Angry Birds was the sixth best film ever made. I nearly had a heart attack.
Well I mean it is, objectively
I know right, i almost had a heart attack, how could they mess up putting it in the 6th place when it need to be in the 1st!?
@@mastersquishy2388 ikr
@@mastersquishy2388 agreed
@@mastersquishy2388 exactly
"What's your superpower?"
"I'm a nihilist."
Ruiluth if that’s a power then call me Thanos.
Kefka.
that must be exhausting
Digital Eclipse lol I got that reference
As a person who was never into superhero movies at all, I watched the Dark Knight recently and Heath Ledger’s performance as the Joker was absolutely chilling. Every scene he was in I felt like everyone in that city was in danger. He felt like an unstoppable force of nature, a looming threat.
One thing that I think was also important in terms of goals: The Joker stated that he would be nothing without the Batman. So he actually doesn't want their fight to end, he is not interested in a goal or end, he is interested in the "journey".
The Joker’s goal was to convert Batman to his world view. He was battling Batman for not only Gotham’s soul but for his own. So no. He definitely didn’t want to kill him. He felt kinship with Batman. He wanted to convert him.
The key to writing a good villain is convincing yourself that they're the "good guy" and writing as though their morals and stance were the good guy's, while also writing the same for your protagonist. The story must be of two sides clashing, not necessarily of good and evil.
Sounds like Death Note and Code Geass.
what if your villain has no reason but wants to just have fun? like a cruel person who just wants to have fun with people by manipulating them and maybe even knowing that it's wrong, but not caring, having no remorse and has fun seeing people suffer? I just wanna know, I might write a story about that kind of person. (sorry if my English is bad)
@@khatunamezvrishvili6211 Simple and bad villain then.
@@botchii3059 are you trying to say that the villain would be simple and badly written or simple and a bad person? I'm confused
@@khatunamezvrishvili6211 simple and badly written.
Batman’s voice drives me insane, like, get a cough drop dude.
He does that on purpose. So that people don’t realise batman sounds just like Bruce Wayne’s voice.
Gabriella Costa He does that on purpose
Maul r/woooosh
Maul it’s so obvious that the first commenter KNEW Batman had done it on purpose! But yet there are kids like you who try to explain things everyone knows
Maul can’t we just be friends now? No need to say that
I’m over here taking notes for the future. Lmfao 🤣
I'd also recommend Terminator 2
It's not just actions, but actions with intentions
You are 100% spot on. Even from the very beginning of the movie with the cold opening in Dark Night you get the immediate sense of realism. No flashy orchestral music, no eye catching CGI just stone cold realism.
I constantly had to remind myself this is supposed to be a movie based on a comic but every single stunt pulled off by the joker was plausible, which intensified every scene. Not one wise crack or campy joke or corny circus themed prop.
Every line delivered by Heath Ledger’s Joker had the intent to expose the weaknesses of everyone his lines was directed. Even at his weakest and most vulnerable moment when he was locked in the interrogation room with Batman he was in complete control because he knew how to render Batman’s greatest weapons, his mind and his strength meaningless.
It didn’t matter that Batman could beat him to a pulp because he laughed harder every time he punched him. It didn’t matter that Batman has the greatest detective mind in DC because every scenario he was faced with was a no win scenario. Brilliant.
Also I removed another point due to time constraints. But no good villain has ever considered themselves the villain. Being a hero or villain is entirely a matter of perspective. Remember all villains view themselves as the heroes of their own story.
Agreed, excepting in the genre of comedy. It's perfectly fine for a comical villain like Dark Helmet or Dr. Evil to know and/or be trying to be a "villain." Of course, even then, they really aren't, because "villain" is just a puch-clock job for them, or some proud title they're seeking, which is all part of the comedy.
Except for... you know... The Joker.
So, so wrong.
Not true.
It's "Openly" as in out in the open. The context here is based on teaching writers how to write characters and their character traits. It's not an opinionated debate.
oh Heath, if only you lived to see what you created.... RIP
Apparently he was extremely exited to see the movie released because he went round to his friends and family and told them that he felt it was the best performance of his career :/
If only. 😢 We miss you Heath.
Technically, Nolan created TDR's Joker, but without his performance playing the Joker, it would be nothing
yeah true, but how did u said, without Ledger's performance, the Joker wouldn't be like the one from TDNR
Rip
I feel like you’re missing some key points. The Joker in this film was also so effective because of how he was presented. The music that played when he showed up. The way he’s introduced and the way he’s described by others.
Like just imagine if Darth Vader didn’t have his theme music or wasn’t captured cinematically.
It really makes a difference
I got an ad right after it said "The Joker might be right behind them." It scared the crud out of me.
"a bad story writer would give their villain an army and a large amount of power"
(Thanos disapproves)
(Sauron disapproves)
(Zeref disapproves)
(Darth Vader disapproves)
(Handsome Jack disapproves)
(Bane, the villain after joker, also disapproves)
Darth Vader was still better. But Thanos was different he kept telling you there was no chance and he kept winning. End game turned thanos into a terrible villain after making him a rather good one.
I also think Mass Effect is also another good example of a good villain
Handsome Jack(From Borderlands disapproves)
@@gibster9624 endgame showed us a Thanos that made no sacrifice. Different thanos.
The Nerd Gamer 25 that’s exactly who I thought of
Did you ever notice the Joker's henchmen in The Dark Knight? I found the fact that they were all just normal-looking, everyday looking citizens to be disturbing. I'm talking about all the goons we see that weren't wearing the clown masks. The Gambol scene, the Harvey chase scene all had just normal looking people doing horrible things for the Joker. It totally supports the Joker's belief that everyone can be corrupted, and the city is rotten.
I never noticed that. Next time I watch The Dark Knight, I'll be paying more attention to the henchmen.
One simple order from a guy with a ton of cash who doesn't want it. Almost seems reasonable.
Good point
The joker probably scared them into working for him.
@@samsmigla I don't know, they seemed pretty enthusiastic to be working for him. Just like Thomas Schiff
"This is the second video I've ever uploaded onto my channel, and I have no clue whether I should continue uploading this kind of content."
-The Closer Look, 2016 - now with 568,000 subscribers, on a video with 1,527,509 views.
One of the joker's most iconic lines was "nobody panics when everything goes according to plan. Even when the plan is horrifying."
It still gives me chills because it's so true. We see it in the way we become desensitized to news about wars, starvation, and kidnappings in places where they happen more frequently, but flip out in places where they don't... Despite the general moral belief that all life is equal.
Watchmen had a great villain. You could understand his motive and he was winning also. No country for old men had one of the best villains too.
MR SLAV i agree, Veidt’s motivation is understandable, kill millions to save billions
Watchman the game???
@@markosthepooper2163 no the graphic novel/movie
Ozymandias the goat
I can tell that you're an Indian also.
"When the audience is watching the Dark Knight, the Joker could be right behind them."
Oh boy, could you have phrased that any better?
I was looking for this comment. Other way I'd write it myself xD
I'm so late on this but holy fuck I thought the exact same thing.
*watching the pencil trick scene*
“This is my favorite part, pass me some popcorn.”- the Joker, sitting behind me
Your content is really helping me turn something I have always wanted to do into reality. Thank you.
Just shows how much pure gold this movie was
So Dr. Doofenshmirz isn't a good villain?
Nah, this is if you want to make a really serious story, not if you are making a comical one.
Okay, so sub in any other villain in fiction. Is the story the same? No. Therefore, Doofenshmirtz is a good villain, if not the most serious.
@@infraredtoa9105 he was joking, brother
Unless if it isnt comical and literally
Doof is really just Perry's playful best friend.
Heath Ledger's performance certainly helped.
Heath Ledger's performance is a stolen performance. He's playing Tom Waits. But not Tom Waits the private individual. Tom Waits as performance (because Waits doesn't behave like that in private; only in public). So Ledger isn't even doing what Johnny Depp does for Jack Sparrow (vis-a-vis Keith Richards). He's just straight up taking another artist's persona and pretending he invented it.
they actually knew eachother and worked together, that is no secret, heath talked about it, never said he invented it.
Dayfitnl
My fucking god you just completely rekt Kevin Munoz
I think it should be the villain has more control than the hero. This can be through strength, intelligence, anything, they just need to have more control of the situation, and the story of the hero is about them taking control from the villain.
Totally agree with you!! Your Videos are perfectly explained and well reasoned, keep it up!
RIP Heath Ledger, we only saw a glimpse of your genius, and lost you far to soon. =(
PS: Heath Ledger's Joker IS the best villain EVER, even when i tried to make excuses for other ones I like in the end i couldn't justify any of them being better than Heath's performance, the only other person coming close to that is Hopkin's version of Hannibal.
Johan Liebert from the anime Monster is arguably better. Check the show out for yourself. It was made in 2004 and is 74~ EPs long - each episode being 20 minutes in run time.
He's regarded as the best, if not one of the best anime villains of all time.
www.thewatchcartoononline.tv/monster-episode-1-english-dubbed
When we are talking film villains, i totally agree, although there are some villains from other forms of media, TV, books, etc that can compare pretty well.
I thought Patrick Bateman in the American Psycho film adaptation was fantastic, albeit he was the protagonist in his own right.
Hopkin is bad. Mads is better.
If Mads is better, then why didn’t he win the academy award for the role like Hopkins did?
All it takes is one bad day...
Ah another fello bobaflex fan
Thats a great song
İlhami Tangör lol you got me there, what a killing joke!
Is it any surprise the quote in the movie is that similar to the quote in that comic? It's considered one of the best comics out there, and no surprise: The Joker is the villain.
E443 Productions lol nice reference
This was extremely useful, thank you so much.
the worse enemy of a villain. Karma.
I think Pegan Min from Farcry 4 is an amazing villian, because he treats the protagonist with respect. Playing as the "good guy" you genuinely feel sympathy for the villain. Especially after the ending
The Dark Knight is really just the film that keeps on giving. Even almost ten years after its release, there are still amazing things to be learned from it. That's something to really admire.
Matthew Forker
I didn't expect the guy with batfleck as his dp to say this lol
Like what? Seriously come down from this brainless Hype train, its a fucking Batman movie.
@@spacelouie So? That doesn't mean it can't be great
Please make a "what makes a good hero" 👍
That's a good idea, I'll think about it :)
I think that's a good topic to cover. Personally,i think it's the villain and the suffering the hero goes through that makes a good hero. Likewise,a character arc should be present too. Just look at Edge of Tomorrow and Tom Cruise's character. Turning from a slimy coward to war-hero willing to put his life on the line for the greater good. The villain should make the hero suffer,and the hero should be irreversibly changed through the ordeal.
A good hero must have a lot of edges, I hate when the guy is just winking at everyone and saves the world just for the purpose of saving the world..
A good villain does...
Sander Gjøsæter I made a hero character who grew up rich and is a spoiled bitch by he learns from everyone around him.
Wow this really helped. Amazing job!
I absolutely love this video, you're brilliant!
I always liked how the Joker never even bothered to look at most of the people he kills in the film, showing how he truly didn't care.
One of my favorite villains is Magneto from the X-Men due to the fact that he believes himself to be a true hero and savior to his people (the mutant race).
The fact that he was in a Nazi concentration camp as a boy and now uses similar tactics only gives the character more depth and also the fact that he and Charles Xavier are trying to protect mutant kind, but in radically different ways works so well to make Magneto a non-villain villain.
I'd love to see a video from you on this topic.
Lucid Symbolic Dream
It's because Magneto and Professor X were based upon Malcom X and Martin Luther King Jr.
They are both looking to protect their people, but have completely conflicting methodologies. Creating those two was pretty damn ingenious of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.
John O'Phelan - Bro... you got me tripping 😱
So ... an anti-villain? :-)))
Also was thinking about Magneto. Totally love him. But not really agree with your perspective. As for me, he's a realist, and Xavier an idealist. Mutants don't have to proof, they are better, as they already are. As species, at least. They are the next level of evolution, they are the future. So human's attitude towards them is a nasty hypocrisy, as they do praise progress, but are not agree to admit, that their time has passed. So Magneto's means are just a proportional answer to survive and to protect his fellow-mutants. And he knows a lot of how far humans are ready to go for getting rid of those, they are afraid of. The "fire" scene on the beach from the "First class" speaks very clear about it. Gosh, I love it so much.
I totally agree with you on that. I like how he’s in the grey scale of morality. He’s not just a villain for the sake of being evil. A lot of stories these days follow the typical black and white good vs evil scenario. It’s not exactly a bad thing but it takes a lot of skills to make it realistic or even believable.
Wait, this is only your second video? This is super professional! Great job!
I loved this video! Thanks for taking the time to make it :)
I'm astounded that someone as new to the playing field as you, with only a few subscribers/views, pulls off such high quality content. For that reason alone, you just earned yourself a new subscriber. Great respect to you.
But also, this video was amazing and very in depth, and all your arguments were set out beautifully. I can't wait to see more analytical work from you in the future.
Thank you so much that really means a lot :D
The Closer Look no problem. I always give credit where credit is due.
Yeah same here, new subscriber
"How To Make A Great Villain" you said
well....
Watch lazy town and you know how to be villain
Watch and learn heres the deal, slip and slide on a banana peel
@@hammerheadeagleithrustakag9289 hahaha... WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?
@@DerPinguim when I say go get ready to throw
Go!!!!
@@baraokeleto157 No! Throw at him not me!
Excellent video! I enjoyed your insights into what makes a compelling villain.
continue, please! i learned from this.
Here's the thing about LotR: Sauron isn't the main villain of the story, the Ring is. It turns men against each other, feeds off of their selfishness and sends them on a path of destruction and inevitable doom. Sauron, at least in the movies, is treated as a distant menace without character, whereas the effects of the Ring can be seen constantly and its power is tied to the conflict many characters throughout the story go through. The difference between a pure heart and insecure courage (Frodo vs Boromir), the struggle between suspicion and trust (Gollum), power and goodness (Saruman), clear sense and delusion (Denethor).
I'm not sure how accurate this theory is to the source material, but I really like the idea that it wasn't Sauron who commanded the Ring to return to him, but the Ring who manipulated Sauron because it had the strongest connection with him and he was the most powerful entity in the Middle Earth.
It would be more apt to say the villain is really the character's inner demons in lotr. Even so that isn't technically accurate. The ring or a characters demons cannot be a 'villain'. The definition of a villain it:
"A character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot."
A ring is not a character. It doesn't speak, it has no personality or dialogue. It only brings out the inner demons of the characters.
The Closer Look I'd actually want to argue with that. I have always seen the movie as if the ring is part of Sauron. In my eyes it is Sauron's main power as well as the reason why he is so scary. that can play with simple emotions until they hit a terrifying degree. Yes, he has power in the sense of an army, but Saruman gives more commands to the orcs than Sauron.
The only real treat Sauron brings himself is through the ring corrupting characters. I believe that unlike many people think, the weapon used by Sauron is not the ring, but the inner demons of the characters. This is why I believe that J.R.R Tolkien is an amazing storyteller. He gave the big physical power away to a smaller antagonist, while giving a smaller, but still just as, if not scarier power to the main antagonist.
This combined with the fact that the main 'body' of Sauron can see across the world, or in other words knows everything, makes it extra terrifying to see someone go against. Especially a tiny and 'weak' hobbit.
I'm not like a film critic or educated watcher, I'm just a film fanatic, but I do think that you are not giving Lotr enough credit for the creation of an amazing villain.
But the Ring does speak on several occasions! There is even a voice actor for the Ring (Alan Howard - also notable that it is a different voice actor that Sauron has). The Ring has a personality and its evil actions drive the plot/story forward. The Ring abandoned Gollum, the Ring betrayed Isildur, the Ring calls for the Nazgûl and it is clearly stated in the films (even more so in the books) that the Ring has a will of its own and it tries to get back to Sauron. Not all of the actions related to the Ring can be explained through it bringing out inner demons in other characters.
Lucas went on record and said Sauron was the main reason behind the creation of Vader. To compare the joker to Sauron, who the latter has got three ages of history behind him, while the former has just got one movie
I can't take Batman's voice seriously
Marinelife7 i feel you 4:51
Marinelife7 nah that shit is fucking dope
Frank Umazor if by “dope” you mean hilarious, then yeah.
Why not serious?
why so serious?
The story of the scars go even deeper then what you said.
He means with the two different stories that everyone can become The Joker if he/she had that "bad day" like he tells the first storie to a criminal cause every criminal could be in that situation he tells the second storie to Rachel that even she can become the Joker.
Commenting 7 years later
Glad you kept it up!
Here's my unpopular opinion:
A good villain will either believe what they're doing is right (like Frollo), or are driven by this urge to just, do bad things (like the Joker)
Probably not that unpopular
Jacob Howie Yeah, O don’t know why I said “unpopular”.
You're absolutely right and that's as simple as that. I don't know this idiotic obsession over Ledger's Joker. We know he is an Anarchist, Nihilistic, Psychopathic criminal.
End of story. These YT videos are such piles of jargon.
i feel like this version of the joker is doing bad things just cause he wants to, but i also think he's trying to prove to others, and maybe even himself, that everybody else wants to do the same as his but feel too ashamed or restricted. but i totally get where you're coming from.
Frollo is so underrated. A truly evil Disney villain.
He's the force of nature type of villain. Like in the saying: _Good people do terrible things, when they see no other choice. Bad people to terrible things, simply because they can!_
PLEASE keep uploading this kind of content!!!
6:55 damn that gave me goosebumps, that’s how good of a villain Joker is.
By the time the movie came out, i was 8, and had the offer from my parents to either choose the Batman HOT TOYS figure, or the Joker.
As they were pretty expensive, i choose the joker, cus of cool i thought he was. The choice even worried my mother. lol.
But thats another showcase of how such a good character craft can impact people, even children.
@h z Had you not edited this earlier, you would have gotten lots of backlashes from retards.
society.
Fucking loved this video mate every point you made was excellent and properly justified and this video proves why this iteration of the joker is the best villain ever.
Thanks dude, I just uploaded a new video on batman vs superman. Feel free to check it out :)
What's with putting Trump as a villain?
I could argue that in a very mild way of it being the best Joker ever, but you can't deny it's the most needed Joker for the story and when you have everything put together as well as The Dark Knight, then it's very easy to see why it's the best Joker ever. Yer this video is fucking awesome.
I think your content is brilliant! Keep it coming.
This is perfect thank you for making this video this will come in handy in my series
I think that Hans Landa from Inglorious Basterds is the greatest villian of all time for many different reasons.
First off, he's a detective. He's basically what would happen if Sherlock Holmes worked for the Nazis, and he is good at his job.
Second, he's highly intelligent, able to speak four different languages, read his victims and ask them questions that would get them to confess anything.
Third, he's charismatic. Landa has neither hatred for Jews or loyalty to the Nazis, he does his job for power. He likes to play with his victims before either killing them or leaving. His sense of humor also adds on to this, which is why Hans Landa is a villians we tend to like more than the hero.
That's just my opinion.
I disagree with your opinion on Sauron. Despite being the least realistic villain you mentioned in terms of the concept, the world they breathed life into is so real and tangible that Sauron becomes an analogy for everything wicked in the real world, and that's what makes him one of the scariest villains. He's like a force of nature.
And that's where I think is the start of a good villain. That you can't just beat them with a sword... Until he was unfortunately. Much like Darth Vader it was a fight for his soul so Vader became a much more iconic villain because he did win a lot and couldn't simply just be killed. Plus when he was on screen him and Luke had great interactions. Sauron not as much but he was that force of nature type of person
Also, even if Sauron is a boring villain, we don't see a lot of him. Gollum is the villain/bad guy with the most personality, and it's also him we spend the most time with. We even feel a little sorry for him.
Also, Sauron won quite frequently. Not ultimately obviously, but he was a continuous force of evil in Middle Earth for MILLENNIA.
I think Sauron is a great villain as well, mainly because of the constant fear he spreads. Yes, he does have A LOT of assistance, but we aren't really afraid of the orks, were terrified from an unmovable eye that doesn't hurt you, it hunts you in your mind ( and watches you all the time ). I think thats the really what you ment about power in the video.
Sauron’s also a demigod and you except them to have great power. There’s absolut no comparison whatsoever between him and Joker.
And if you study him correctly you’ll realise that the greatest achivements Sauron ever did was not trough Force of arms and massive armies but trough his own skills and cunning.
I love the fact that the reasoning about Batman and the Joker's goal is making Gotham's soul the McGuffin of this story :D I never thought of it that way... but I find it very enlightening :D
Yep. That was the whole point of his “social experiments” with the Ferry boat and putting the target on the accountant’s back when he was going to reveal Batman’s identity. But really the goal there was to create evacuation of all the hospitals creating enough chaos so that he could get in to see Harvey and talk him out ONTO the ledge. Multi-tasked Misdirection. Brilliant. 😂😂
love your videos, watched half of them in three days :)
How To Make A Great Villain: Just make him exactly like Joker from Dark Knight.
amen
And then worry about copyright issues😂
There are much better villains actually
@@mananghildiyal2675 like who?
@@lordrattington331 Johan liebert from Monster, Griffith from Berserk and Meruem from HxH. I am not denying that Joker is bad. He is definitely one of the best I've seen but there are better ones.
The Joker's power is his immorality. There's perhaps no greater power than that.
Kwakeka Mdivasi well, he’s existed since the 60s..
Mickey Mouse has existed since the 1940s what’s your point?
@@soidester1162 he's immortal as well, so is shaggy and so is everyone cartoon character. We can never forget masterpieces so their immortal. Bad cartoons are not
I’d like to think what they meant was the immortality of the idea of “Joker”, like even after he dies, the impact he has on the characters and Gotham as a whole will never be the same and impossible to be recovered. Which fits his “anyone can turn into me” ideology, there perhaps is no greater power than that
@@dacstudios1168I said immorality, not immortality genius
you are a good man got me got my brain building a villain in the works for my story
I would love to see you also analyze the movie scripts! Love your videos ♥️
I think you misinterpreted that quote about te villain having more power then the protagonist, it's not just about physical power. In the Dark Knight the Joker does in fact have power over Batman, he is able to hurt and/or force him to act as he wills, but Batman has no power over the Joker and cannot hurt him.
The hardest opponent you could ever faced, is someone with nothing to lose at all, doesn't even know him completely
Johnsel Martinez exactly. Even in the movie the joker states “you have nothing to threaten me with”
@@Renicent precisely
Sam guy the joker does not have complete power over Batman however. He has the philosophical edge seeing as Batman won’t do the one thing that can stop the joker however the joker cannot force certain outcomes. Had Harvey not intervened Bruce would have turned himself in.
He never said it was just about physical
All it takes is one bad day... A little push I mean.
All it takes is one bad day. Funny that was Joker's line in Killing Joke
Or! An accumulation of Lil things that upset u, and one day to eventually set u off
Personally I like the idea of the Joker's origin being unknown it gives his terror an extra edge
"I took Gotham's white knight and I brought him down to our level. It wasn't hard. You see, madness as you know it really isn't that hard. All it takes is one... bad... day."
It would be interesting if that was his last line but I think it would've taken us out of the movie.
This was really good, as a screenwriter myself I learned a lot.
Your videos are perfect, I need to take notes.
This is a good basis, and I agree with most of your points other than labelling Sauron as a bad villain. I would always argue that genre plays a big part as to whether you have a successful villain, as world building and establishing your characters in that world play a very big part. Simply put, the reason Sauron or darth Vader wouldn’t work in Dark Knight is because they don’t belong in the real world setting.
He didn't label Sauron a bad villain, dafuq?
@@epichal4883 he did
@@arthurdaffos1490 Well, he is a bad villain when you look at it that way. He has no understandable motivations or unique characteristics, he is simply a powerful evil being who wants to rule the world. And that's a cliché. I love LOTR, I think it's a masterpiece, but I can't deny this.
szabok1999 This is where I disagree Alex makes a good point about characters and settings The Dark Knight is a realistic modern setting so the main villain has to have motive and a relatable backstory in order to be translated well to audience and the characters in the film. The Lord of the Rings however is more like a mythology of an epic fantasy, Sauron doesn't need to be understood because he's not a mortal person he is an embodiement of evil so how can he relate to the audience or the characters in Middle Earth? Most importantly he doesn't need to be relatable to be a good villain what he is is terrifying and interesting. There's an element of tragedy in Sauron from being this powerful essense of evil where he can no longer connect to anyone in the world there's even hints from other characters that Sauron was not so evil before and it is told through philosophical speculation. What makes Sauron great is the atomosphere and performance he delivers and it's effective even when he's not there. Sure he wants to rule middle earth, sure he has no explained motive in the movies but guess what the scenes with him are absolutely amazing. The way Gandalf speaks of him in Fellowship the film makes you feel like he's there in the room listening, what about when Pippin held the Palantir and had that horrifying encounter with him, you can't really see what's happening but you hear his voice and you see how Pippin suffers and that's all you need. This performance comes from sound effects, graphical effects and music cues all done extremely well, even Joker's performance relies on sounds and music cues to create a suspenceful atmosphere when he's on screen. Take any scene with Sauron and you call him a bad villain simply because he's not explained?. Some villains do not need to be explained, they can hinted but overall a great villain just needs a good performance, a good look, some power (traditional or creative) and a unique villain role in the setting, a way to stand out from the typical villain. The way I see it Joker and Sauron are great villains just because they are well portrayed in their own ways.
@@szabok1999 About Sauron being a cliche, keep in mind Sauron that J R R Tolkien that The Lord Of The Rings published in 1954, and Sauron was first mentioned(though not by name) in The Hobbit, from 1937. He isn't just a Dark Lord, he's The Dark Lord, he's the character(or at least one of the characters) who led to that being overused and becoming a cliche. He's basically the textbook example of a Dark Lord villain. It wasn't so cliche back then.
Rest in piece Heath Ledger. You have shown us the real Joker. You will be missed greatly. You are the best.
i wouldnt say the "REAL" Joker
Just wow! Exactly what I needed! Thx!!
So, if the Joker doesn’t care about anything, how can he have a motivation, let alone compelling motivation?
Doesn’t he sorta care about having a one true enemy “Batman” and he cares for this relationship
The Joker doesn't win. He isn't defeated by Harvey Dent, Batman, or Gordon, but by Tom Lister Jr.'s character when he throws the detonator out of the window, utterly disproving the Joker's cynicism. The irony is that none of the main characters are there to witness this and fail to realize the significance of the moment, the ultimate tragedy of the film, which leads to them selling their moral integrity by covering up Harvey's sins. Joker loses, but so does Batman and Gordon. This instills a sense of hope in the film while still maintaining the dark and brooding atmosphere.
"Sometimes, both sides lose" -Daredevil
what are you talking about batman killed Harvey to save Gordon's boy so that gave joker the win so you wrong and Shaffan you wrong to
Michael Moss but that wasn't his goal
+Michael Moss Wrong, it was never about Batman killing, it was about Gotham's spirit, Joker himself says it and that's the point, Gotham didn't lose.
Though Joker still kinda wins because for every good man there's always the system, and it's imperfect.
Wait wait wait...we forgot about one villain who kinda succeeded!
Bill Cipher
Such an underrated villain but a good one
Even Rex Dangervest (Lego Movie 2) kinda succeeded too.
That movie is awesome.
Adven4U1 uh no
YES
Bill is a virtually perfect villain. Change my mind.
BiLl CiPhEr Is StIlL aLiVe
A truly amazing video
I’m writing a story and this really helped me! Thanks a lot dude!
I'm not a writer or anything, I just love these videos so much. They're so pleasant and relaxing.
I know the writer of yours, Matilda: Roald Dahl
talking about the jokers story about his scars, when i saw the film i almost had an orgasm, having read the killing joke in which he says "if i'm going to have a past, i prefer it to be multiple choice". that's knowledge and care for your core material
Great video. I am going to use this information for the villain in my next D&D campaign.
Wonderful stuff - great presentation and review. :)