The Search for the Golden Calf
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- čas přidán 13. 02. 2019
- When you think of the portrayal of idolatry in the bible, you probably think about the worship of the golden calf at the foot of Mount Sinai. In Exodus, Aaron helped the Israelites melt down gold and shape it into a calf. This story symbolizes the dangers of idol worship. The ending, where Moses tells his loyal followers -- an exclusive group of Levites -- to execute their brothers, friends, and neighbors by the sword is an incredible warning to those who disobey the second commandment. The golden calf narrative from Exodus has a long history, not only in its construction but also in its origin. Did Aaron really fashion a golden calf for the wandering Israelites? How was the story read in the ancient world? Did any of it actually happen? Could any of it have actually happened? Today, I hope to answer these questions and more as I search for the Golden Calf.
Music by Rubin Marshak
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Sources:
Books-
James D. G. Dunn, John W. Rogerson - Eerdman's Commentary on the Bible
Jerry Neal - The Ugaritic Texts and the Bible
Susan Niditch - Ancient Israelite Religion
Mark S. Smith - The Origins of Biblical Monotheism
Mark S. Smith - The Early History of God
Cyrus H. Gordon, Gary A. Rendsburg - The Bible and the Ancient Near East
Frank Moore Cross - Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic
Israel Finkelstein, Neil Asher Silberman - The Bible Unearthed
Gary Greenberg - 101 Myths of the Bible
Thomas Romer - The Invention of God
Brian Hayden - Shamans Sorcerers and Saints
John Van Seters - The Life of Moses
Alan F. Segal - Life After Death
Richard Elliott Friedman - Who Wrote the Bible?
Nahum M. Sarna - Exploring Exodus
Lauren A. S. Monroe - Josiah's Reform and the Dynamics of Defilement
J. Glen Taylor - Yahweh and the Sun
Michael Coogan - The Ten Commandments
Papers-
Moses Aberbach, Leivy Smolar - Aaron, Jeroboam, and the Golden Calves
Leroy Waterman - Bull-Worship in Israel
David Frankel - The Destruction of the Golden Calf
G. W. Ahlstrom - An Archeological Picture of Iron Age Religions in Ancient Palestine
Geoffrey P. Miller - Golden Calves, Stone Tablets, and Fundamental Law
John Muccigrosso - A Speculative Note on the Golden Calf
Jack M. Sasson - Bovine Symbolism in the Exodus Narrative
Samuel E. Lowenstamm - The Making and Destruction of the Golden Calf
Amihai Mazar - The "Bull Site": An Iron Age I Open Cult Place
I always found it odd that a bunch of supposed escaped slaves would have so much gold and swords on them.
And leave no archaeological evidence
They stole gold from Egypt. That's why the Egyptians chase them . They made the sacred calf to represent Hathor sky goddess of love , health , life nd fertility . They learned from Egypt the symbolism. To manifest intentions .
@@VirtueEthics999 Did you even listen to the video?
djfrank68. Read the bible Genesis.
@@nighthiker8872 I think you meant to type Exodus
This was an amazing work, guys. Thank you for it.
The very first time I questioned the bible was the golden calf of Exodus, I thought how a people be so stupid to not only build a god to worship but to worship another god if all these things had just happened to them were true.....it made no sense. After that I started seeing other anomalies and well here I am.......great presentation, it's not condescending, or arrogant or full of short out of context scriptures. It's mature and professional and you have a new subscriber.
Exactly, people must have sat in church wondering about that but before the Internet where could they go with it?
@jurassicgalaxy9 - Right on. Of course humans could never be stupid. Only God is stupid. No wonder people have lost God in their hearts, I would dump you too with an attitude like that.
"I thought how a people be so stupid to not only build a god to worship ", looking from YOUR culture you assume that. Step into the shoes of a person from that time. Look at how many people thought tRump was a political genius.
matilda, grow up
I am a Weird ROCK COLLECTER and actually have on a rock the form or resemblance that of a calf and it is thecolor of gold it is Very Unusual AND is Possibly the ONLY 1 of its kind on thePaneT fOR 9 Mar's DOLLAR'S it is Your's
Pure gold. Abig thank you.
You all are fantastic. The amount of research and information you guys put out is always, always bar none the best. Thank you
how could animal become god?
@@hanibee3793 how could human become god - or more accurally, why would any god has anything in common of humans or even care about humans?
Really interesting. I like the in depth look at different subjects.
Not an atheist, but your channel is a wealth of knowledge. 👍 keep up the good work.
u will be a Atheist one day when reality is done with u
Well-researched and presented.
Thanks for this. Your videos are always interesting and l love watching them!
I am here to prepare myself for this saturday read of Exodus 32
Of interest regarding Yahweh as the Golden Calf is that he is portrayed in the Exodus as assuming the form of a storm cloud that descends on Mt. Sinai setting it on fire. His voice is likened to booming thunder claps. Lightning can set on fire forests. The Semitic god Adad is also portrayed as a storm god, and storm clouds were called Adad's calves. A stone stele exists showing Adad hurling thunderbolts while standing upon the back of a galloping bull-calf. Perhaps Yahweh's storm cloud imagery and his being honored as a bull-calf (Golden Calf) are echos of Adad the Storm god and his bull-calf storm clouds? The Bible speaks of Yahweh as the rider of the clouds, and Adad would be a rider of the clouds called Adad's calves.
yes, and in the Vedic tradition, Indra is associated with thunder and the stampeding of cattle.
This is very interesting as according is Islam/Quran, it has some substantial differences like how Aaron/Harun didn't participate with erecting/worshipping "the calf," he was against it & being shunned by the pagan Israelites. He didn't pushed further because he was afraid of further alteration of possible fights among the people. In the Quran, the person who had the idea & made "the calf" is Samiri. Yes, in Quran, at no point the idol described as a "golden calf," just an idol of calf but also able to make a distinctive sound. Some scholars suggested This "Samiri" could also mean the samaritan, alluding to a references about Jeroboam of Samarita as in a similar pagan worshipers. Based on Quran Samiri was exiled.
Mousa Alsamiri, who crossed the red sea, means from samirah, canaan land inhabited by Samirah, there is Palestinians Samarah in Nablus, occupied land, west Bank..
Search utube, Jewish Himyarite kingdom in yemen..., the bull-calf was sacred...many stones carved with them...
Wow.. that was well researched .. well past mentioning the calf polemic . A great relationship to Josiah and why it was written up in the 6th century. I am sure you have made a few million readers on the OT
Thanks for the information
It has always buffled me how the same israelites who had witnessed the parting of the red sea with their own eyes were so eager to worship a total random idol they had made once Moses was not watching
To be fair, the amount of wandering in the wilderness that had occurred before hand likely made them begin to resent Moses. Not to mention the fact they the Israelites at the time had thought that Moses was gone from them, which triggered the to seek new leadership. What would you do if someone you knew very well had left for a few weeks without much fanfare or much food or water?
i saw in 10 commandments that prophet moses broke that statue?
Excellent
Wow so deep father ☝️
Your begging at the end of your videos be having me cracking up
I've seen worse examples of begging on CZcams.
@Lu G. Your comment is false. There are many preachers who have jobs other than preaching and this guy isn't a preacher. Smh
The golden calf is Tarus at the spring equinox. The calf was replaced by the lamb circa 2140 B.C. The "death" of Moses, marked the precesssion opf the equinoxes from Tarus to Aries. Moses aka Mo Ab (rain + father) aka Reuben, is the constellation Aquarius. Remember where Zeus takes the form of an Eagle (Aquila constellation) and carries Ganymede/Moses to the top of a mountain (Exodus 19.3-4). Beth El is the constellation Aries at the spring equinox. The Ram became god with the bye bye to Moses. Moses is still alive and you can see him in the Aquarius constellation. The "ancient Israelites," never was a nation for the word Isreal is Phoenician for SATURN. Recommend: Hebrew Mythology, by Milton Woolley.
Gerald McFarlin I think you are correct .
Sidereal Astrolatry.
GERALD MC FARLIN you are correct ...RAMOSSES = egyptian Ramesess the great and so on and on and on....everything has the Ram...right ascention of meridian is the start of the day ,year ,and spring=Aries the ram.. Sin Wave ,the sun makes around the world.
If I remember right, ancient iconography was meant to be a vessel for something thought as real (people, animals, gods).
I doubt a bull or cherub was merely decorative,but was probably meant to strengthen whatever thing was representing it. I *think* the idea is that a real bull or cherub would at some point inhabit that thing when needed to validate it.
A cherub is a guardian, and will usually be represented in statue at an entrance of a place for spiritual insurance - to come alive and protect when needed.
Iconography of non-yaweh things would strengthen those things (and weaken yahweh). At the time of yahweh, other gods existed and yahweh didn't want them strenthened.
If you look at Yemen archaeological sites, you will realize many bull-calves' heads ...
What is the relationship between canaan land, Samirah and Yemen..?
Isn't this similar to the Bronze bull on Wall St.?
Nice video. But what is your evidence that Josiah supported monotheism instead of just the traditional Judaism of Judah?
Well, I checked the references at 3:11 in five translations and they all refer to "Mighty One", not "Bull". The subsequent reference in Numbers 23:22 does not describe Yahweh as having the horns of a bull - it describes him as being "like" the horns of a bull; not "having" the horns of a bull. In some translations this is translated as him having the "strength" of a wild ox. None of these references depict Yahweh as a bull; the most you could say is that it illustrates his strength as being like that of a bull; it is simply idiomatic of something strong and fearsome and not to be dealt with lightly. The worship of Baal was simply that - worship of a false idol and a consequence of cultural syncretism, and was a separate cult that had nothing to do with the true worship of Yahweh; it was not the worship of "Yahweh as a bull".
This is really interesting.
I hope that the channel will investigate what you have shared here. If they are in error, I hope they will clarify and correct it.
Thanks.
It's interesting that people miss how much it's a betrayal for the Israelites to be in the process of asking God to enter into a Relationship with them...
And they LITERALLY cheat before the Relationship is finalized. _(Essentially, not even getting through the Marriage union...)_
(Eloheim?)
As for the Golden Calf itself...
Moses grinds it down into powder, and makes those people who worshipped the Calf, drink the powder.
Thank yahewluv yahew will come 🥰🥰💋💚❤️💚☝️💪💋💋
yes, it would seem odd that these same people would be worshipping another god after having been led out through the Exodus. However, i am wondering if in fact Moses got mad at everyone because they worshipped an idol as in a substance? or did Moses think they were reverting back to worshipping any numerous other gods such as Baal. Or did he commanded everyone who was acting wild to be killed. Also, is it true that the Levites were against idols of any kind?
Wouldn't Aaron have had to have a smelter plus an alloy to make a golden calf?
Not if the story is myth
I was wondering at about the time frame of the Minoans. They had a huge bull culture.
My research suggests that Yahweh was honored in the form of a Golden Calf by the northern kingdom called Israel. But this was not because of an event in the Sinai, it was a natural, normal, development arising out of Syrian and Canaanite pre-Israelite worship of deities as being likened to being powerful bulls in strength and ferocity (as correctly noted by Lorence Yufa of Milwaukee Athiests in this video). So why portray the Calf event as in the Sinai and not its true origin in Canaan and Syria? Why the Sinai? The answer is that the Exodus as portrayed in the Bible never happened. Its all imaginary. The archaeological proof? When Israel leaves Egypt, she fears war with the Philistines, so God, fearing they will return to Egypt, to avoid war with the Philistines, has Israel not take the fastest way to Canaan, the Way to the land of the Philistines, God has Israel take instead a longer route to Canaan, via the southern Sinai to avoid the Philistines (Exodus 13:17-18). The Problem? Archaeology reveals the Philistines did not settle in Canaan before circa 1175 BC in the reign of Pharaoh Rameses III, who mentions their conquest of Canaan and attempt to conquer Egypt. He defeats them, and they settle in Gaza, a former Egyptian stronghold. ERGO, there were NO PHILISTINES to fear for an Exodus circa 1446 BC (1 Kings 6:1) nor circa 1260 BC, favored by many Liberal Scholars. So, if there were no Israelites in the southern Sinai, because there were no Philistines to block their Exodus from Egypt to Canaan, then the Golden Calf incident never happened! The Ten Commandments didn't happen either! There was no crossing of a Red Sea either with Pharaoh's destruction! Archaeologists have found no archaeological evidence of Israel in the Sinai for any time period. So, the question to be asked is, what then, is the historical core behind the biblical portrayal? My research suggests that real events, documented by archaeological findings, are behind the Exodus narratives. The Golden Calf of the Southern Sinai is apparently recalling the worship of the Egyptian cow-goddess, Hat-Hor, at Serabit el Khadim, with Hat-Hor being recast as the Golden Calf, as first proposed by a now deceased Jewish scholar, Dr. Zvi ilan, a Historical Geographer at Tel Aviv University in Israel, in a paper he published in an Israeli Journal in 1979. His proposal is not in English, its in modern Hebrew. Fortunately, Zvi ilan appears, in person, on a CZcams video, to summarize, in English, the reasons why he believes Mount Sinai is Jebel Serabit el Khadim and why he believes that Hat-Hor has been recast as the Golden Calf. Click on the following url for Dr. Zvi ilan (PhD) and his proposal, in which he appears in person, at 15 minutes and then again at 17:23 minutes through 18:16 minutes of the following video czcams.com/video/zG7980w0f88/video.html
Superb video, very informative! In Hinduism, the bull has been revered as the mount (ride) of Lord Shiva. That bull is called Nandi (pronounced nun-dee with the dee pronounced as in words like thee, this) Many Hindu Gods have what are called mounts, or rides. It is symbolism. Nandi is portrayed as a white bull, and represents morality, purity and justice. Lord Ganesha has a rat as a mount, symbolic of the overcoming of our rat like ego.
One other comment is about Mot, the God of death in that part of the ancient world. The word is pronounced Moth (sounding a bit like the word mouth) and even now in Arabic/Urdu/Hindi, the word is used to signify death or mortality. I believe that the sharp sounding T used in English was non-existent in those days, and does not exist in Sanskrit or Hindi or any Indian languages that I know of. T either is pronounced TH as in thin, or with a retroflexed tongue. Each pronunciation has a distinct alphabetical character. This is the same with the English letter D.
We should gather shoes. Follow the gourd.
Shouldn't Jerobaom be Jeroboam?
Ok so it was against the rules to build an idol but the Jews hadn’t received the rules yet and Moses talks god out of killing the people then he kills the people. Yep makes perfect sense I’ll be in church on Sunday.
The golden calf is Tarus at the spring equinox. The calf was replaced by the lamb circa 2140 B.C. The "death" of Moses, marked the precesssion opf the equinoxes from Tarus to Aries. Moses aka Mo Ab (rain + father) aka Reuben, is the constellation Aquarius. Remember where Zeus takes the form of an Eagle (Aquila constellation) and carries Ganymede/Moses to the top of a mountain (Exodus 19.3-4). Beth El is the constellation Aries at the spring equinox. The Ram became god with the bye bye to Moses. Moses is still alive and you can see him in the Aquarius constellation. The "ancient Israelites," never was a nation for the word Isreal is Phoenician for SATURN. Recommend: Hebrew Mythology, by Milton Woolley.
Gerald McFarlin I’ll check out the book and believe your right. As for the name Israel is hard to find any proof of a nation I think they quote to Stella the one at Moab and the one in Egypt as proof of an actual Israel but I’m not sure if the translation is right. I’ll get that book thanks
@@theautoman22
Moab is Aquarius. Mo (to rain) plus Ab (father).
Idolatry was prohibited before the tablets: Exodus 22:20. Lots of rules were pronounced before the tablets in chapter 31.
That wasn’t marduck that Enil or Enki annunaki
and now the calf returns !!
can these atheists find Trinity in The Book of Exodus?
1) Jaweh, the type of EL the bull
2) Moses, the type of the dark angel, the destructor ; Michael or water
3) Aaron, the type of the bright angel, the life giving spirit ; Samael or fire
@@willempasterkamp862 you are dodging the question. Start with biblical scripture not zeitgeist the movie
The golden calf is Tarus at the spring equinox. The calf was replaced by the lamb circa 2140 B.C. The "death" of Moses, marked the precesssion opf the equinoxes from Tarus to Aries. Moses aka Mo Ab (rain + father) aka Reuben, is the constellation Aquarius. Remember where Zeus takes the form of an Eagle (Aquila constellation) and carries Ganymede/Moses to the top of a mountain (Exodus 19.3-4). Beth El is the constellation Aries at the spring equinox. The Ram became god with the bye bye to Moses. Moses is still alive and you can see him in the Aquarius constellation. The "ancient Israelites," never was a nation for the word Isreal is Phoenician for SATURN. Recommend: Hebrew Mythology, by Milton Woolley.
@@harveywabbit9541 nonsense. You talk like zeitgeist but never mention Trinity in Exodus. Where on this equinox does it mentions "Angel of The LORD?"
The Dutch equivalent of the Oscars is The Golden Calf!
No!
This is all interesting, but of what relevance is it to us in the 21st century?
"He took their earrings and made a golden calf from that." That's a lot of earrings. What size would this calf have been? The size of a cat? Of a German shepherd?
How big is the Taurus constellation?
@King ZERO
Moses aka Ganymede is the man in Aquarius. Another Ganymede is Reuben and his four sons are the four seasons of the year.
@Noe,
A very fair question.
I would offer:
1. Pursuit of truth, such as historical truth, is always valuable for a better understanding of our heritage.
2. Truth with regard to religious claims is vital in a world where significant global political and economic decisions are made based on these ancient myths and claims which affect the survival, safety, wellness, treatment, and opportunity for billions of people.
Yep it all makes sense now, most bronze age people were howling mad lol.
The search for the golden calf? Well, I did find the golden _goose_ (the goose that lays golden eggs). It was delicious! :)
I worship Venus... I used to be a an atheist who studied different forms of philosophy and astrotheology... and became EXTREMELY DEPRESSED. Now I am happier than I was as a Christian or an atheist.
I find it interesting that you discuss your 'happiness', rather then the demonstration of truth of the claims.
Personally, my happiness depends on identifying what degree of certainty I have on a claim' truth. IfI know its only 30%, then I'm happy that the matter is left as unresolved, and that I know precisely how unresolved it is.
P. B Amygdala there are no absolutes in life ... everything we know or think we know has been or will be proven wrong at some point...
@@justrenee2640 I'm happy for your newfound happiness, and I wouldn't genuinely wish to strip you of that...
However, there are plenty of genuine absolutes, and especially so regarding Things We Can Honestly Know.
As Tim Minchin so eloquently put it in his Poetic Story "Storm":
"I resisted the urge to ask Storm whether Knowledge is SO Loose-Weave of a Morning...
when deciding to leave her apartment by the front door, or the window on her 2nd floor."
@@justrenee2640 you know you have a head
Mousa Alsamiri, who crossed the red sea, means from samirah, canaan land inhabited by Samirah, there is Palestinians Samarah in Nablus, occupied land, west Bank..
Search utube, Jewish Himyarite kingdom in yemen..., the bull-calf was sacred...many stones carved with them...
Yale University sponsored YT classes of which the analysis of Old Testament writing (see:Christine Hayes) was a Classic. OT writings as representative and symbolic of the development of the YAHWEH cult was demonstrated to have had many connections to the bull worship of Baal of Canaan. In fact a case can be made for Moses reticence to lead Hebrews directly back to the Canaanite homeland owing to the ease with which the Egyptian ex-slaves readily fell away from focus on YAHWEH and back to more prisoners motive idolatry. FWIW.
Read the Quraan people, it doesn't contain these contradictions.
If you read Genesis you would know the number of free slaves left and why they bad the gold, That many forget to talk ot BRING UP at sunday service.
Great information ! I am still convinced that the Judean Bible was created post 500BC to write the Israelites (Samaritans) out of their lands and out of history. The "Lost Tribes" were never lost.
I would love to learn more about the archeology taking place in Babylon / Samaria / Persia, to see what they are finding from early 2nd temple period / post-captivity.
It would be great if the hypotheses about the timeline of the OT's authorship could be verified by physical evidence.
Heads up we have always had HaShems name and the YHVH is being said by you wrongly.
Yahweh is a catholic invention
YeHoVah (your Yah is Vah) and the poetic form of yehovah in Hebrew is vah (or your yah).
Yhvh is the Hebrew you see
Ayhy asr ahyh
I will be which (or who) I will be
This ayhy gives an English (ah yah) asr (ashur) ayhy (ah yah)
1 kings
Exodus 32:4
The Hebrew has no "s"
You will want a Hebrew text, chabad.org is best, you will have Hebrew to the right and English to the left. The catholic versions are severally changed, to teach you'll want the orginal.
The calfs in shemot (exodus) were found on rocks near the true Sinai. This was a long standing problem of my people.
Baal the son of El and born to the virgin Ashera is the jesus man today. We now reject this son idea, the virgin idea is fake anyway, the Hebrew passage isn't even translated right in a Roman bible.
They actually changed all verses for jesus to fit, but you can find this out by pulling up fake 300 prophecies jesus filled then going to chabad.org looking verse by verse.
Now for repeats from Deuteronomy and Exodus are the same stories doubled, it's a Hebrew conjecture text.
The gold being drunk in exodus (shemot) actually caused skin color change so they were marked and levites knew who to kill.
Elohim (Elokim) seems to be always seen as many but the fact in Hebrew language as all forces in 1 which is exactly what Isaiah says.
Yahweh is Jupiter as male and female (sword and sheath).
Either way u spell It whatever name u use, it all points to sun worship... use ur brain
The speaker said the bible doesn't mention the calf was made of gold. That's a bold face lie smh
The speaker said 2 of the 3 narratives did not mention the idols were made of gold. No lie involved. Please get your facts straight before making a fool of yourself.
@@fredworthmn drop your location let's meet up
When I think of the golden calf, I think of Donald Trump.
Kind of hypocritical of Moses to do that
It's Samar, not Samaria, no?
BI BULL same thing
You were at 6,666 views and then I ruined it.
Lol!!!!
Really! What do we in todays time worship?
Gold, money, nature, education, power, some worship dead leaders vs worshiping the living God of the Bible.
How many religions have idol worshippers. I believe India alone has thousands of god's. Everyone knows the saying "holy cow "
So if other worship false god's it's ok but not the God of Christianity?
What do we worship? I don't worship
The moral of the story is about the workshops (not worship)
which made white powder gold, which (was made for them to drink) rejuvenates the dna . . .
The white powder came from the poppy.
Evidence pls.
@@p.bamygdala2139 - Exodus 32:20, Revelation 3:18 . . .
Bull worship.
Is there any other kind?
Your ignoring the king's being aware of the oral history of Deuteronomy. All of the Moses books were "complete" & known because the levitical priesthood was taught it from birth. Please take into consideration that the books of the pre cuniform world was the oral traditions
I'm fascinated by claims of oral history. How does one prove it? And why does one look to such a theory? What does the theory support and what does it refute?
P. B Amygdala other cultures & religions had oral histories. I was only referring to the Pentateuch. I’m not sure if I understand your question & what theory your speaking of.
The pagan text does not prove causality without further evidence.
Idolatry is a fancy way of saying that Yahweh is a spoiled brat who gets his test out of whack when people aren’t giving him enough attention.
It's funny how you work so hard in trying to destroy something that you don't believe.
Me bhi dhund raha hu. Bakra.
Koi to halal hoga.
Aja beta.
Why don't you do us a favor and tell us what sources are you reading from? Its obvious you're reading from another source.
My sources are in the description. I wrote the script
The golden calf is Tarus at the spring equinox. The calf was replaced by the lamb circa 2140 B.C. The "death" of Moses, marked the precesssion opf the equinoxes from Tarus to Aries. Moses aka Mo Ab (rain + father) aka Reuben, is the constellation Aquarius. Remember where Zeus takes the form of an Eagle (Aquila constellation) and carries Ganymede/Moses to the top of a mountain (Exodus 19.3-4). Beth El is the constellation Aries at the spring equinox. The Ram became god with the bye bye to Moses. Moses is still alive and you can see him in the Aquarius constellation. The "ancient Israelites," never was a nation for the word Isreal is Phoenician for SATURN. Recommend: Hebrew Mythology, by Milton Woolley.
The Ram god can be traced back to Libya and Egypt. This Ram god became the Greek Zeus Ammon. Think Je-Zeus.
Yes,but you are not comparing Apples to Apples..The reason being is your translation,To compare right,You need a GNV or even a AKJV.To get a solid compare. Deut 9:1 use MIGHTIER ,you are using STRONGER...Mightier is inclusive and plural of combined elements,,,Stronger,,is just Stronger...You are comparing Apples to Figs.
Its a Mesopotamian thing before and during the Bronze age :p
Note the sacred bovines of India, Africa, Europe, etc. It's a common animist and zoomorphic deity
Selling your soul for CZcams 💰
You seem to be assuming he is lying.
@@LadyBeritanavatarius I didn't say nothing about lying. Selling your soul correlates with lying? Y'all make me feel ashamed to be an atheist. You new age money hungry nuts
@@LadyBeritanavatarius lol you assumed I assumed he was lying smh